/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:08:59 2009 No.3260041 [Reply] [Original]

I've always wondered something, /jp/. Is it even possible for Flash to imitate the complex, fast, and massive bullet patterns in Touhou games with no lag? If Flash is such a horrible platform to make games, why are most Touhou games I've seen made in Flash? Why do people prefer to use that instead of good old fashioned C++?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:08:59 2009 No.3260043 >>3260041 flash can barely handle 100 individual objects on the screen at once. what a piece of crap.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:08:59 2009 No.3260045 KoG Thread. Reported.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:09:59 2009 No.3260048 >>3260045 >5 KoG. Reported.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:10:59 2009 No.3260052 File: 243 KB, 714x500, 1211695058617.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260045 It's not a KoG thread until there's a Cirno picture in it.

>>	Koof !CUTE/F2gdA Sat Aug 29 20:10:59 2009 No.3260053 i don't know you just said "WHY ARE THERE NO TOUHOU GAMES IN FLASH" "WHY ARE MOST TOUHOU GAMES IN FLASH"

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:10:59 2009 No.3260054

>>3260041
>Is it even possible for Flash to imitate the complex, fast, and massive bullet patterns in Touhou games with no lag?
No.

>why are most Touhou games I've seen made in Flash?
Because Flash is very, very easy to use. Any retard can make a flash game. A real game in Sepples, not so much.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:10:59 2009 No.3260055 >>3260045 >>3260048 >>3260052 Stop trying to hijack the thread with GET faggotry.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:10:59 2009 No.3260056 Danmakufu apparently uses something like C and is rather decent (if you're good you can do something on par with EoSD, but fancy UFO lasers don't look cool on it. ) Games lag like fuck though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:12:59 2009 No.3260059 If the C language was easy to use, this wouldn't be a problem. I blame the people who invented the programming language.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:13:59 2009 No.3260067

>Is it even possible for Flash to imitate the complex, fast, and massive bullet patterns in Touhou games with no lag?

Absolutely impossible. Even IF you could get all the bullets on there in one piece, you have to deal with the character, the firing, the enemy, particle graphics, and hundreds of hit areas. Flash just isn't suitable for Touhou-like games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:14:59 2009 No.3260073 Hell, my PC can barely run ZUN's Touhou games with no lag, so Flash stands no chance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:15:59 2009 No.3260083 File: 61 KB, 578x596, 1243244238949.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Flash

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:16:59 2009 No.3260084 because people are stupid and flash is easy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:16:59 2009 No.3260086 >>3260059 It can either be easy to use, or good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:16:59 2009 No.3260088 Both Macromedia Flash and Game Maker are horrible programs to make games with. They're like, the KFC of the gaming industry -- only niggers use them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:17:59 2009 No.3260092 >>3260086 It can be both.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:17:59 2009 No.3260095 >>3260092 try actually learning some programming languages.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:18:59 2009 No.3260101 >>3260095 You first.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:18:59 2009 No.3260102

>>3260059
Don't use C then, there are many great languages with fast native code compilation. Blame yourself for being sheep and not wanting to learn anything else, and not being able to even think that something else could be easier, faster to code in, and at the same time just as efficient when needed.
OP, this is really a /prog/ topic, why did you post it on /jp/?

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:18:59 2009 No.3260103

Short answer:
No.

Long Answer:
No. Flash is an inefficient pile of shit when it comes to games. Even in game maker, which is also an inefficient pile of shit, can do several hundred to thousands of sprites with no slowdown.

Flash is only good for animation, and video. And even when used for animation, its better to convert the animation to a video format to make sure that it actually freaking plays properly. All that super smooth vectorized goodness doesn't do you a lot of good when you have to set an animation to low quality just to get it to play smoothly.

As for the reason people use flash, its because they are lazy and don't want to learn a platform that's actually suited to what they want to do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:18:59 2009 No.3260105 >>3260067 The closest anyone has come to it in flash is probably Frantic. Boring compared to most of the genre, really.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:19:59 2009 No.3260106 >>3260102 Cuz Tohos

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:19:59 2009 No.3260109 >>3260105 >Frantic Don't even bring up that overrated pile of junk in this thread. That shouldn't even be called a shooting game with the lack of creative enemies and boss and overall repetitiveness. Raiden X outshines it in every possible way.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:20:59 2009 No.3260115

>>3260103
>
Flash is only good for animation, and video. And even when used for animation, its better to convert the animation to a video format to make sure that it actually freaking plays properly. All that super smooth vectorized goodness doesn't do you a lot of good when you have to set an animation to low quality just to get it to play smoothly.
Wut? Get a good PC, everything works on my side.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:21:59 2009 No.3260119 >>3260109 The Frantic series and Raiden X both lag horrendously, though. The only reason people like them so much is because most of those people have never seen a Touhou or other curtain fire game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:22:59 2009 No.3260126 >>3260109 True, I had forgotten about Raiden X.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:22:59 2009 No.3260129 >>3260115 HAHAHAHA no. There are MANY better animation programs out there. Get outside some more, and do some research.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:23:59 2009 No.3260138

>>3260059
>If the C language was easy to use, this wouldn't be a problem. I blame the people who invented the programming language.

What the fuck? That makes no sense, only an idiot would make an excuse like that. Everything is "hard" if you don't have a background in it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:23:59 2009 No.3260140 A shooting game can be good without a million bullets on the screen at one time. You kids are spoiled.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:24:59 2009 No.3260146 >>3260138 Not Flash. A 10-year-old using the computer for the first time could make a Flash game in less than an hour.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:24:59 2009 No.3260151 File: 280 KB, 1500x1425, smirk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260140

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:25:59 2009 No.3260156

>>3260115

You seem to be missing the entire point.

In C, on my shitty computer, you could run a game that had 5000+ sprites going at once.

In flash, you would be lucky to get past 100.

This inefficiency scales upward with better systems. With a hardcore system, you could have tens of thousands of sprites potentially when using C. With flash, you'd still be lucky to get past 200 to 300 because of how god damned inefficient it is.

Also, part of the goal of game making is to make the game work even under less than optimal conditions. Flash is incredibly wasteful with CPU time, and incredibly limited.

If you have to tell your userbase "just get a new computer" to run a game that doesn't even come close to matching Touhou, which runs perfectly on my shitty-ass system. Then you know you have a problem.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:26:59 2009 No.3260161 The one good thing about Flash is that 99% of Flash games on the Internet are free. I'd rather play a half-decent Flash game that I paid nothing for than pay 10 bucks for something a little less lag-free.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:27:59 2009 No.3260173 >>3260161 I've seen some pay-to-play Flash games before.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:27:59 2009 No.3260174 >>3260140 It's that or LOL TERRAIN. Fuck running into walls, fuck it so hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:28:59 2009 No.3260178 >>3260161 C games can be free, Flash games can cost money. It's basically the way it is because Flash is easier and worse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:28:59 2009 No.3260179 Flash is good for stuff like poker games, dice games, etc., but for games that require tons of stuff to be going on at once, you're better off with pretty much any other program.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:28:59 2009 No.3260181 >>3260161 Everything is free on the Internet. >>3260173 That would be why he said "99%".

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:29:59 2009 No.3260183 >>3260173 That's why he said 99%

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:29:59 2009 No.3260186

>>3260146

Yes, and that came would suck. Give someone who has a background in C 6 months to make a game, and they will probably come up with something pretty good.

Give someone who is a master of action script 6 months to make a flash game? Its still going going to be shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:30:59 2009 No.3260194 >>3260186 I don't know man, 6 months is a long time. I've seen some pretty awesome RPG games made in Flash.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:31:59 2009 No.3260195 >>3260194 But we're not talking about RPG games. No amount of time can cure the lag Flash presents when having more than 2 objects on the screen at once.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:32:59 2009 No.3260205 Don't even get me started on backgrounds. Why the hell does having a moving background cause Flash to lag immensely? If anything, it should have a very small impact, not overtake the entire game's processes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:33:59 2009 No.3260208 File: 101 KB, 743x921, 1211177017587.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You guys are just jealous. Flash is the strongest game making system alive.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:33:59 2009 No.3260210

>>3260194

And those games would invariably be better in C, or pretty much ANY other language.

Its like giving an artist a block of marble and a heaping pile of dung. You might be able to sculpt something with dung given the time and effort, but its going to be clumpy and fall apart in places. And its going to stink.

The marble will take more work to get the basic shape, but in the end it will be solid and beautiful.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:34:59 2009 No.3260214 >>3260210 Not if the dung was from a cow eating the highest-quality grass and the marble had a lot of other trace elements mixed in.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:35:59 2009 No.3260221 >>3260214 You... you really don't get analogies, do you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:35:59 2009 No.3260224 >>3260210 If the sculptor has the skill of course.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:35:59 2009 No.3260226 File: 44 KB, 1000x1000, ಠ_ಠ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260214

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:36:59 2009 No.3260232 Flash is a nigger and C++ is a white man. Sure, the nigger can do some good things on occasion, but he's still a NIGGER.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:36:59 2009 No.3260233 >>3260214 Actually... yeah, his analogy would still stand, in that case. You're not very good at this, are you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:36:59 2009 No.3260242 >>3260232 racist fag

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:37:59 2009 No.3260246 >>3260214 You have a point there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:37:59 2009 No.3260248 File: 76 KB, 320x439, samepersonsensetingling.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260221 >>3260233 Samefag missing the point

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:38:59 2009 No.3260252 >>3260221 >>3260233 ITT, a deep analogy is presented, and anon's brain hurts too much, so anon calls it a flawed analogy while completely missing the point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:38:59 2009 No.3260254 >>3260242 4chan, etc, being racist means you are a superior being here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:39:59 2009 No.3260257 >>3260248 Not samefag. And if I missed your "point", feel free to enlighten me.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:39:59 2009 No.3260258

>>3260224

So lets put this analogy in context.

You have a beginner in the marble (C) working on his sculpture. He's not going to know the tools right away and is going to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to properly use them.

The kid using the dung (flash) is going to be able to get started right away. He'll be making clumps of dung that vaugely resemble shapes, and they will fall apart constantly.

Months later, both have perfected their artforms.

The master of marble can now easily chisel away at the marble to get the basic form he wants, and using his precise tools can get the exact details he wants. He can polish the marble when done to make it shine.

The master of dung can whip anything he wants together nearly instantly. Unfortunately, everything he makes will still only be clumps of dung that fall apart at the slightest touch. And it will still smell.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:39:59 2009 No.3260260 >>3260214 10/10.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:41:59 2009 No.3260273 >>3260258 You're assuming the kid hasn't learned how to cover up the smell with fragrances and paint it a gold color.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:42:59 2009 No.3260285 It's always fun watching people with no clue about programming trying to discuss it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:42:59 2009 No.3260286 >>3260258 What would they be doing with the sculptures, exactly? If they're just going to SIT there, you can very easily make the dung look and smell better than the marble with the right knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:42:59 2009 No.3260288 >>3260210 I don't think I understand, perhaps a car analogy might help me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:43:59 2009 No.3260291 Flash is good for puzzle games. Someone go make a touhou puzzle game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:43:59 2009 No.3260294 >>3260285 It's always fun watching people with no clue how to program comment on how stupid people are about arguing how to program.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:44:59 2009 No.3260296 >>3260273 Sadly, the dung (flash) doesn't come with those things. The fragrances and gold come as toolkits (frameworks) for the marble though. Go figure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:44:59 2009 No.3260304 >>3260288 Flash is a Toyota, and C++ is a Ford.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:45:59 2009 No.3260310 >>3260296 You just don't get it, do you...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:46:59 2009 No.3260312 >>3260291 Flash is good for games that don't depend on having any framerate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:47:59 2009 No.3260319 >>3260291 >>3260312 Yeah, but that's not the point. C++ can program better puzzle games, too. There isn't a single thing Flash can do that C++ can't do better. End of discussion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:48:59 2009 No.3260323 WHY IS THIS A METATHREAD I HATE WEEKEND /jp/

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:48:59 2009 No.3260325 C++ is just as terrible a language as Flash. C++ isn't shit slow at least.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:49:59 2009 No.3260327

>>3260286

Analogy-fag here.

Yes, when not applied to games, flash does quite fine. But the topic here is games. If there is any interactivity or movement involved other than straight up animation, flash is going to lose every time. Scrolling backgrounds, of all fucking things, slows flash down by quite a bit.

And even in the case of animation, there are times when you're going to want to simply convert the animation to another format instead of having flashplayer run it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:50:59 2009 No.3260335 The reason why Flash is so widely used is the expansive tutorials that are out there. If there was some decent Danmakufu tutorials out there along with some templates to work from, even I may give it a shot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:51:59 2009 No.3260340 >>3260327 Like games, Flash animation is only popular due to how easy it is to use. There are many, MANY better animating programs out on the market.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:52:59 2009 No.3260346 Flash is awesome for short 1-10 second animations and looping music.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:53:59 2009 No.3260354 >>3260346 Those short animations are also where a lot of the retarded Internet memes come from. We are better off without them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:54:59 2009 No.3260363 But then we wouldn't have this masterpiece: http://cgi.4chan.org/f/src/CHEEEEEEEEEEN.swf

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:55:59 2009 No.3260375 >>3260363 http://cgi.4chan.org/f/src/dancing%20green%20peasants%20disco.swf For every decent flash animation, there are 100 bad ones.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:55:59 2009 No.3260376

One thing I do have to say to all the people that might consider making games in flash.

If you have enough passion for game making to give it a serious try, please use a serious program for it. It seems daunting at first, but trust me, it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run.

Sure, you can learn flash easily, but you'll soon discover that 90% of what you wanted to do simply isn't possible, and you start having to figure out work arounds or completely butchering your original design.

In other systems, you'll spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do something, but rest assured, you'll at least know that there is a way to do it.

Not that I'm saying don't learn flash. You should. Its very easy to learn, and it has it's merits if you're interested in animation. Just for the love of god, do not think that you're going to make a passable game in flash, unless it is incredibly simple and you're fine with working the PC far, far harder than it rightfully should.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 20:58:59 2009 No.3260393 >>3260376 Name 10 things that are impossible to do in flash. Leave lag out of it.

>>	Anonymous ‮～ᚻᛟᛟᛟᛟᚩᛗ ‪‪‪‬ ‪‬ ‭‬ !Jones4ZrPA Sat Aug 29 20:58:59 2009 No.3260396 I think it's amusingly coincidental how this thread appeared right when the rm thread died. The answer, of course, is "because it's easier".

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:00:59 2009 No.3260414 >>3260325 So I heard you like programming in Visual Basic and Java because that's obviously much better. Or better yet, Python and RUBY RAILS. I'll stick to my #include<stdio.h> kthnx.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:01:59 2009 No.3260421 >>3260393 Hmm...give me a second...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:02:59 2009 No.3260428 >>3260393 It's not that you can't do it. ANYTHING is possible in Flash with enough skill, patience, and know-how, but THE LAG MAKES IT NOT WORTH IT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:03:59 2009 No.3260440 >>3260428 This. Anybody who says something is impossible in Flash hasn't used Flash. The possibilities are endless, but unfortunately, so is the lag curve.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:04:59 2009 No.3260445 File: 12 KB, 304x299, slowpokecirno.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260396 It took you 50 minutes just to realize that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:06:59 2009 No.3260465 ruby on railswwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:08:59 2009 No.3260476

>>3260393

1) Lag does not mean what you think it means. Please kindly get out.

2) If by "lag" you mean massive drops in framerates due to extraordinary strain on the CPU, then no. The entire point of this conversation is that flash is so inefficient with CPU time that it makes things that other systems can do easily literally impossible.

3. To prove the point. Make a game with a scrolling semi 3d background. The game must be able to run at 60fps with over 1,000 shots on the screen, in addition to 20+ enemies. All of this while both music and sound effects are playing.

Even on an amazing system, flash will fail to deliver. With directX we already have an example of what does work. Any windows touhou game made.

4) If all of that doesn't convince you, then I can make it even simpler. Could you make FFXIII in flash? How about Crysis? How about even something like Halo 1? The answer to these questions is: No. You could not.

Fuck, flash can't even manage a mario clone as well as a 20+ year old NES.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:08:59 2009 No.3260477 >>3260393 - Boot loader - Accessing the memory of other processes - Writing an interrupt handler - Making BIOS interrupt calls - Hardware I/O ... fine, I'm too lazy to come up with ten, but who cares.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:08:59 2009 No.3260482 >>3260393 1) Delete System32 Uhhh...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:10:59 2009 No.3260494 >>3260476 >>3260477 >>3260482 Looks like somebody is butthurt that he can't name 10 things.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:11:59 2009 No.3260497 >>3260393 1) Work properly

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:11:59 2009 No.3260501 >>3260477 >- Writing an interrupt handler Um...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:12:59 2009 No.3260510 >>3260476 >>3260477 I think he meant what game couldn't you make, not what can't flash itself do. You bring up a point on 3D games, but I heard the newest version of flash can do 3D.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:13:59 2009 No.3260516

>>3260494

Sounds like you're butthurt because three seperate people easily thought of things flash could not do.

Unless of course you honestly think flash could have a snowball's chance in hell of running even an Xbox game at the intended framerate. Fucking laughable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:14:59 2009 No.3260526 >>3260516 An Xbox can't even run an Xbox game at full speed. What's your point?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:16:59 2009 No.3260533 Here's your flash Touhou game: http://nekofla.web.fc2.com/game/th_kaikeidou/th_kaikeidou02.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:16:59 2009 No.3260534 >>3260393 * A flash compiler C compilers are written in C.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:16:59 2009 No.3260535 >>3260526 Xbox is a commercial gaming system. Of course it's inferior to most PC programs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:16:59 2009 No.3260537 >>3260510 I think the point here is that there are few games flash even can reproduce at a decent framerate. Then theres the fact that anything that you COULD make in flash would run far, far better if programmed in another system anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:18:59 2009 No.3260555 >>3260537 Everybody here understands that. I just disagree with the notion that every single flash game ever made is automatically horrible just because it was made in flash.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:19:59 2009 No.3260565

>>3260534
I'm not one to say anything about Flash, but there's really no problem with writing a Flash compiler in ActionScript(Flash). The language is turing complete and is expressive enough that it would be doable, as for the actual speed, it'd probably be dead slow unless you made a native code compiler for it, but then it wouldn't be ``Flash'', as it would be able to run by itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:20:59 2009 No.3260569 >>3260210 Fail for the analogy implying that C is solid. It isn't, it never will be, enjoy your weak typing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:21:59 2009 No.3260576 >>3260555 Except that it is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:21:59 2009 No.3260577 >>3260569 Weak typing is fine. Besides, runtime type checking is a pointless waste of resources.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:21:59 2009 No.3260580

>>3260533

fps drops to 27fps on the fucking MENU at times? Thats already fail.

But just to humor you, lets continue.

Oh, my, that sure is quaint. Character sprites are solid colors with no detail.

Oops, there's a noticable fps drop already with only about 20 bullets on the screen.

Whats this? The background is straight up 2d with no elements of depth? Too bad.

Oho, it seems the player's shots dont actually travel but are actually sprites placed apart from eachother to look like they do.

Nope. This meets none of the criteria. Please try again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:21:59 2009 No.3260584 >>3260569 Which language do you prefer?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:23:59 2009 No.3260594 >>3260580 Here you go: http://nekofla.web.fc2.com/game/th_kaikeidou/th_kaikeidou01.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:24:59 2009 No.3260616 >>3260565 Good luck writing a compiler for a proprietary binary language, bro.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:24:59 2009 No.3260621

>>3260138

One language is often harder than the next. In this case, C requires much more careful planning than Flash due to many people's horrible abilities to keep track of allocated memory in order to prevent memory leaks, not to mention most game-related things such as input, graphics, and sound need to be written from scratch (or use a library that someone has already written and kindly released). On the opposite side of the spectrum, however, Flash already has 99% of the capabilities built in needed for games.

To the OP, there's a catch relevant to the above comparison - Flash runs much slower than just about any other (not that I'd consider Flash a programming language) programming language out there due to the fact that it's interpreted as opposed to being native code. Java is the same way, but its developers optimized it as best they could to get the most speed out of it. Meanwhile, C/C++ compiles to native code, meaning that it's sent directly to the CPU to handle instructions. Of course you can't get any faster than that.

Another thing worth mentioning is that Flash doesn't take full advantage of hardware acceleration. DirectX and OpenGL are not usable by it either so that option for extremely fast rendering is out of the question. Touhou uses DirectX though, and drawing hundreds, even thousands of bullets is a fairly trivial task.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:25:59 2009 No.3260628

Why the fuck are people in /jp/ trying to compare Flash which uses actionSCRIPT (as in SCRIPTING LANGUAGE) to compiled languages? Why is this even an issue? If you don't know the limitations of scripting languages by now, you probably won't ever need to know.

This is also a good time to mention Silverlight > Flash.

>>	AznStall Sat Aug 29 21:28:59 2009 No.3260660 Yeah its true white people are pretty disgusting just by the wayy they think shit!

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:29:59 2009 No.3260673 File: 366 KB, 640x480, touhoufangame.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I think we've found ZUN a new artist.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:30:59 2009 No.3260683

>>3260616
No problem, I'm good at reverse engineering, but why would I do that when the format has been documented all over the Internet?
The other problem is that I really couldn't care less about ActionScript.
It's still a very real possibility, I've seen a couple open source AS2-3 compilers floating around, along with disassemblers and other tools, some of which were actually written in AS.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:30:59 2009 No.3260685 >>3260628 >Silverlight > Flash Last time I tried to write a game in Silverlight it was a clusterfuck. The entire idea that sprites are really controls turns me off. Shit needs moar control over rendering.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:31:59 2009 No.3260689

>>3260594

My that sure is humorous, but lets do this anyway.

Oh, whats this? Its the same game so half the things I mentioned still apply? Crappy sprites, flat background, lazy-ass player shots.

Oh, but it gets better! Its now so tiny I cant see shit. Say, isn't touhou able to run 60 fps even on lunatic when in any window size? And now that flash's precious smoothing has been disabled it actually looks worse than ever! Wow!

I'll give you that it runs at a smooth 60fps, but now it is unplayable due to it's size. Way to go! You sure proved us wrong!

But if I could cease being an asshole for a moment...

In all seriousness, the entire discussion here isn't that you cant make a good flash game (this is okay I suppose though seriously flawed). The entire point is that a game made in flash could be made better in another system.

I do believe you posting this proves that. The creators had to go to great lengths and sacrifice quality in order to get it to run properly. The second link you gave me wasn't even playable due to it's size.

Case in point:

Compare this to the actual Touhou games. This sucks comparatively. Pretty much end of story.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:31:59 2009 No.3260693

>>3260628
You're retarded. Scripting language (which in itself is a dumb category, but whatever) does not imply a language isn't compiled. A language isn't inherently a compiled language or a 'scripting language', being compiled is a property of the implementation. Being a 'scripting language' simply means it can be used for scripting.

Why the fuck are people discussing Flash and C++ in /jp/?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:33:59 2009 No.3260709 >>3260689 Oh, whats this? A faggot?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:34:59 2009 No.3260715 >>3260693 Shouldn't you be glad they're not doing it in /prog/. We sure don't need yet another SEPPLES thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:34:59 2009 No.3260718 >>3260693 /jp/ - Computer Science/General

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:34:59 2009 No.3260720 i like flash because i can play it in my browser without downloading or installing anything

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:35:59 2009 No.3260725 File: 7 KB, 96x96, xacc-96.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Lisp wuz here. Sepples sucks

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:36:59 2009 No.3260733 Computer science is for faggots.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:36:59 2009 No.3260739 >>3260709 >>3260689 here. I admit, you made me smile.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:36:59 2009 No.3260740 How about some Java Touhou? :3

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:38:59 2009 No.3260761 >>3260725 This.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:39:59 2009 No.3260764 File: 2 KB, 60x43, Haskell-logo-60.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260725 haskell was here, lisp is faggot

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:39:59 2009 No.3260767 >>3260725 Does LISP have any decent libraries for advanced UI design and graphic rendering?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:41:59 2009 No.3260782 >>3260740 Considering that you can access rendering OpenGL directly, it would be very possible. But the garbage collector may screw up the framerate, especially with the number of objects (Thousands of bullets) you would need to create.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:41:59 2009 No.3260788 Why the heck are people trying to compare a runtime environment to a programming language? C can be compiled to Flash. That's probably fucking useless, but doable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:42:59 2009 No.3260794 >>3260767 Depends on which lisp, but most have a good FFI, so you can use anything. > advanced UI design and graphic rendering? Yes, but not all may be what you're expecting ( in a good way ).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:44:59 2009 No.3260807 >>3260782 People have already done this, it works well. A common technique is to just gc every time before drawing a frame.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:44:59 2009 No.3260812 >>3260788 Doom has been ported to flash with some sort of experimental C compiler that was released by Adobe. It was laggy, unresponsive and had none of the features of a modern source port.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:46:59 2009 No.3260828 >>3260807 Ah ok. I wasn't aware of what techniques they would use as I mostly write C/C++ with a bit of Java/C# on the side.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:46:59 2009 No.3260829

>>3260594
>>3260533
If that guy tried to make that game on something else other than Flash, it would be awesome. The gimmick looks cool, the art is almost ZUN-like andthe METAL POPCORN FAIRIES GODDAMN I THOUGHT HAVING THEM ONLY ON THAT RESURRECTION OF HEAVEN LIQUOR WAS ENOUGH BUT NO AAAARGH MY EARS.

Hell, even Danmakufu would produce something cool - see CtC.

But damn, having to make the game screen really fucking tiny with low quality just to get 50 fps is something sad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:47:59 2009 No.3260843 The reason a lot of people use Flash is because of the small file size and easy-to-share nature. Since the entire Internet is basically Flash-based, it's not that hard to spread Flash materials to one another.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:49:59 2009 No.3260852

With the amount of /prog/ in here I'm surprised no one attempted making a Touhou game as a group project, as unlike with VNs, you can just take six people, order them by laziness, have them seperately code one stage each in danmakufu or something and put it together for a passable game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:50:59 2009 No.3260870 >Touhou >complex, fast bullet patterns no

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:51:59 2009 No.3260879 >>3260852 I'd rather make a touhou roguelike. I'm still trying to figure out how the fuck turn-based danmaku would work, though. I'm leaning towards it being a shitty idea that will never work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:52:59 2009 No.3260884 >>3260852 It would probably end up having the SICP snake as the final boss. Reminder [Have you read your SICP today?]

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:57:59 2009 No.3260933 >>3260852 I'm working on a danmaku right now, soloist-style like ZUN. Except it's not based on Touhou.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 21:58:59 2009 No.3260938 File: 4 KB, 94x138, laughingelfman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260879 >implying anybody on /jp/ knows how to program

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:00:59 2009 No.3260955 >>3260933 Then it's fail.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:05:59 2009 No.3260999 File: 11 KB, 400x300, dawson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >139 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:05:59 2009 No.3261000 File: 39 KB, 464x349, 1239943193433.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3260955

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:06:59 2009 No.3261001 >>3260938 You would be surprised how much of the userbase /jp/ and /prog/ shares. After all, both are ronery, dwell in basements and stay in the computer most of the day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:07:59 2009 No.3261010 >>3260938 I asked a game design question, not a programming question /jp/ knows even less about game design than it does about programming.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:08:59 2009 No.3261015 >>3261010 Then again, the same could be said of the game industry in general.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:09:59 2009 No.3261020

Flash is written in C++

Imagine two version of a same game on your PC, one version is compiled to run natively on your computer, the other version is ported to run natively on a PS3. To you it running on your computer you must run it within a PS3 emulator. The emulator when you think about it is a piece of software designed to mimic the workings of a PS3 using software on your computer.

Which version will run faster on your computer? This is why Flash will always be shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:11:59 2009 No.3261035 >>3261020 This is a terrible analogy, but the conclusion is still correct.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:12:59 2009 No.3261039

But then the question must be asked: What defines a GOOD game? Is a good game defined by the standards of other applications? If that is the case, all games made this year will be complete garbage 100 years from now. What about games like Super Mario Bros. 3? Compared to the games of today, that game looks like a pet project made by some kid in a month of spare time. If Flash was available in 1985, how would the program have been perceived back then, and how would it have evolved? It's all based on perspective. Some people don't want to spend months working on a game, and some people only make games for themselves. All this arguing about what is better is childish.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:12:59 2009 No.3261042 >>3261035 Terrible grammar as well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:13:59 2009 No.3261047 >>3261039 >If that is the case, all games made this year will be complete garbage 100 years from now. Basically. People need to stop crying out crap that doesn't matter and live in the real world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:13:59 2009 No.3261049 >>3261039 >What defines a GOOD game? Tetris.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:14:44 2009 No.3261054 >>3261039 >If that is the case, all games made this year will be complete garbage 100 years from now. Basically. People need to stop crying out crap that doesn't matter and live in the real world.>>3261049

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:14:59 2009 No.3261052 >>3261047 That's not the case, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:15:59 2009 No.3261057 >>3261049 I like how most people don't even realize Tetris is a hack of another game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:15:59 2009 No.3261061 >>3261049 Tetris sucks, Mr. Driller is better.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:16:59 2009 No.3261063 >>3261057 It was also made by a Communist.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:18:59 2009 No.3261079

>>3261039
There's still a level of objectivity, Flash is BAD because it objectively lacks the capacity to perform certain tasks that are necessary in many games. This isn't an issue of perception, past and future are irrelevant. The issue is the technology available to us now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:19:59 2009 No.3261091 File: 191 KB, 1250x1425, yugismirk.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >5

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:19:59 2009 No.3261094

>>3261039

I think you're misunderstanding the point many have made here. If you took a game (the example the OP used was touhou) and made it identically in flash, you would end up with an inferior version because of flash's limitations. Flash, by *current* gaming standards, is a poor platform for game development.

Don't you think its a bit cheap to go "well, 20 years ago flash would have been amazing" ? That kinda takes out the whole "comparing flash to things actually used to create games" bit of the argument. Besides, 20 years ago it wouldn't have been amazing because no computer would have been able to run it, and better games were being made for the freaking NES anyway.

PS: Mario 3 was and is awesome, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:19:59 2009 No.3261095 >>3261079 That's not true. If Flash was unable to do it, it wouldn't even do it. Flash runs it incredibly SLOW. If you had a computer that was 100x better than it is now, you can argue that Flash could be great.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:20:59 2009 No.3261098

In theory, you could do it. You aren't going to be able to get as much performance as you could with a lower-level language, but you could probably get something on the order of EoSD to run well on recent computers, if you know what you're doing.

But anyways, the reason that Flash is used for games isn't because it is good, but because almost everyone has it and it isn't quite as shit-tastic as Java.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:20:59 2009 No.3261100

Idea: Combine danmaku with Tetris. You're in a tetris game, have a single block hitbox and should endure until the "player" loses. Should get as frantic as actual tetris in higher speeds as you run around in limited space to avoid fast-falling blocks.

Now if only had a loli of some sort, it'd be a nice game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:21:59 2009 No.3261109 Flash is a Nintendo Wii. C++ is a PS3. Get it now?

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:22:59 2009 No.3261113

>>3261095

What are you not getting about this? On a current top-end computer, flash will run a game (touhou as an example) worse than using directX and C (or other languages).

If you had a computer "100x better", and that computer was used for both versions of the game, flash would STILL run it worse!

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:22:59 2009 No.3261116 >>3261100 Already been done.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:23:59 2009 No.3261122 >>3261095 You have bad reading comprehension.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:23:59 2009 No.3261127 >>3261109 While we are at it, Cirno is Flash and Reimu is C.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:23:59 2009 No.3261130 >>3261100 This would only work if you could fire danmaku at the falling blocks. And you need some system for casting master spark.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:23:59 2009 No.3261132 >>3261116 Coincidentally, that game was made in flash, and suffered some serious framerate and input issues because of it

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:24:59 2009 No.3261135 >>3261122 You have bad debate skills. Take some classes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:24:59 2009 No.3261136 >>3261109 Do you know how stupid this is? You're comparing a programming language, a piece of software, and hardware. I hope this isn't a serious post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:24:59 2009 No.3261138 >>3261132 Are we talking about the same game? Which one are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:25:59 2009 No.3261142 >>3261136 The comparison still sicks, though. The Nintendo Wii can't do jack squat compared to other high-end console systems.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:25:59 2009 No.3261143 >>3261136 Despite the poor analogy, it is still more or less correct.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:26:59 2009 No.3261147 >>3261135 Wait, the guy making fallacious arguments is telling me I have bad debate skills? Haha, oh wow.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:26:59 2009 No.3261152 This thread is terrible yet I still find it more tolerable than /prog/

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:27:59 2009 No.3261159 >>3261147 induring ad hominem attacks

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:28:59 2009 No.3261163

>>3261138

It was some touhou tennis game that was part of a pack of flash games/movies. I have it somewhere on my hard drive.

It was a fun game and a good concept, but unfortunately the fact that it was in flash made it almost unplayable at times. Especially the fact that (on my system) I had to put it to low quality in order to play, and the screen was too small to really enjoy. And if I made it fullscreen it ran like molasses in a vat of liquid oxygen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:28:59 2009 No.3261165 Wait, a Tetris danmaku game was made? DO WANT

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:29:59 2009 No.3261172 We've had sculptor, car, and /v/ analogies and I still don't get it, could someone perhaps explain this to me in terms of anime?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:30:59 2009 No.3261182 >>3261165 hahaha. oh WOW. Jesus christ what is wrong with me? I misread "Tetris" as "Tennis". Please disregard what I said, I suck cocks. There is a touhou tetris game though, haven't gotten around to playing it myself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:30:59 2009 No.3261183 >>3261159 It'd be an ad hominem attack if I was basing my argument around it, I was simply pointing it out, broseph.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:30:59 2009 No.3261184

Flash has one, and ONLY one, feature that matters for game programmers:

You can play the games in your web browser, without having to download anything you don't already have.

Basically, code in Flash if it is something that nobody would be willing to actually download.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:32:59 2009 No.3261194 >>3261172 Flash to C++ is Lucky Star to LoGH.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:32:59 2009 No.3261196 >>3261184 This is an incredible benefit that cannot be overstated.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:32:59 2009 No.3261198 >>3261172 C++ with directX/openGL is Bebop Flash is Hamtaro

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:33:59 2009 No.3261204 >>3261184 The Flash plugin still needs to be downloaded. This doesn't outrule the fact that the game could be developed in Java or Silverlight either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:33:59 2009 No.3261208 >>3261196 It seriously is, actually; people are more willing to give things a try if they don't have to expend any effort in doing so.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:34:59 2009 No.3261215 >>3261196 Yes, the fact that flash requires nothing other than a browser and flashplayer is a great advantage. But at what cost anon? At what cost?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:35:59 2009 No.3261217 >>3261215 our souls

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:36:59 2009 No.3261227

>>3261172
C++ is like drawing animu cells in Corel Draw with a Wacom

Flash is like drawing animu cells with laptop truckpoint (you know that little thing in the middle of the keyboard that they use to use before touchpad) in MS Paint.

You can kind of see how it will be still possible using the second option, but it's slow, it's inefficent, it can't do layers, most of the time you will just end up with shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:37:59 2009 No.3261236 HOW TO FLASH? HOW DO I MAKE FLASH? WHAT SOFTS DO YOU USE TO MAKE FLASH?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:37:59 2009 No.3261237 >>3261215 Our lives. Macromedia developers sold their souls to a witch to come up with Flash, when the witch returns to collect payment she'll take everyone who has ever played a Flash game.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:37:59 2009 No.3261239

>>3261204
Java applets are horrible, and lots of people don't even have Java properly installed. Installing it is also a bigger pain than installing Flash. That said, you DO have access to OpenGL through it, which is a big plus.

Silverlight is poorly supported on non-MS systems, and very few people actually have it installed yet. I honestly don't know much more about it; how powerful is the graphics engine? I assume that you don't have full access to DirectX; am I wrong?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:38:59 2009 No.3261243 >>3261172 You're an animation studio. In C, you are doing all the work yourself, the scenario script, the animation, the CG, etc. In Flash, you outsource everything to Korea telling them more or less what you want and sit back.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:38:59 2009 No.3261244 >>3261236 HELLO THIS IS AN ANIMATION ON THE INTERNET AN INTERNET ANIMATION, MADE OF FLASH

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:38:59 2009 No.3261245 >>3261184 You also don't need a reservation to go to McDonald's. Now you understand.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:38:59 2009 No.3261247 C++ is a programming language. Flash is a software for developing (primarily) web media with limited scripting capability. Is there any confusion?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:38:59 2009 No.3261249 >>3261244 WHAT

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:39:59 2009 No.3261255 >>3261247 I guess so, because apparently some people are not freaking getting it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:39:59 2009 No.3261256 >>3261236 In theory you can do it with nothing more than Notepad for writing some ActionScript and some open-source SWF compilers. Most people use Adobe's software instead, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:40:31 2009 No.3261266 >>3261247 "Flash" is kind of ill-defined; it gets used to refer to the player, the format, the editor, the compiler... It's a real terminological mess, really.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:40:59 2009 No.3261262 File: 18 KB, 174x231, 1242179892066.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3261245 FINALLY, IN TERMS I CAN UNDERSTAND

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:41:22 2009 No.3261278 >>3261245 THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:42:23 2009 No.3261282 >>3261243 Right, and as you sit back and relax, they fuck everything up, making your project a complete trainwreck. Sounds good, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:43:28 2009 No.3261291 >>3261245 Life would suck if we had to get reservations for every meal we ate, though. Sometimes you want to just shove a mutilated cow down your throat and get on with your life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:43:28 2009 No.3261294 >>3261282 Eh, as long as I make money.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:44:22 2009 No.3261301 >>3261291 Welcome to Flash.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:44:22 2009 No.3261302 >>3261266 The whole is flash, one part is not useful without the other. But if it makes you happy: Flash Studio Adobe Flash CS4 Professional™ is a software for the development of web media to be viewed in the users browser with the Adobe Flash Player™.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:45:23 2009 No.3261310 >>3261302 >™ Get out of here you elitist prick.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:45:23 2009 No.3261312 >>3261266 The whole is flash, one part is not useful without the other. But if it makes you happy: Adobe Flash CS4 Professional™ is a software for the development of web media to be viewed in the users browser with the Adobe Flash Player™.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:45:53 2009 No.3261321 >>3261312 >deletes post to fix a minor error Elitist status confirmed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:46:30 2009 No.3261323 >>3261310 You frustrated, brah?

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:46:52 2009 No.3261330

To be honest, its not the development portion of flash I really dislike. Its the flashplayer itself that really brings flash down.Its just so god damned slow. If it ran decently, flash might actually be a legitimate game development platform for anything more than simple (read: mostly shitty) browser games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:48:55 2009 No.3261355 >>3261330 Um, no. The slowdown isn't the only problem. Read the entire thread brah.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:50:03 2009 No.3261366 >>3261239 Well, on Windows it's accelerated by DirectX. Not sure how it works on other systems though. Given the fact that 90% of internet users are on Windows, though...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:50:25 2009 No.3261371 >>3261355 I know its not the only problem. I'm just saying that the sheer sluggishness of the program is what makes it so unusable. Either way it still wouldn't measure up, but it would at least be passable otherwise.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:53:56 2009 No.3261396

Flash is awesome
http://chibitami.net/works/flash/fla2flan/index.html

What I hate though, is how flash has replaced Java, even to the point of making entire sites in flash. I can just turn off stupid pointer trail following words and popups but if I turn off flash, the whole damn site will disappear nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:56:26 2009 No.3261427 >>3261396 Not to mention that having a site entirely made from flash can be a terrible strain on resources. Especially if you're multitasking. And especially if the site would have worked just as easily with html.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:57:56 2009 No.3261437 >>3261396 That reminds me of another issue, the quality of flash games doesn't seem to have improved at all in the last... 5-8 years. I know the scripting language has been improved upon but I haven't seen improved performance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 22:59:26 2009 No.3261455 >>3261437 I'm pretty sure the focus lately was video playback.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 29 23:04:26 2009 No.3261483 >>3261282 That's the point that I wanted to get through. You code less but you can't complain about the quality.

Anonymous Sat Aug 29 23:08:26 2009 No.3261508

>>3261483

Yeah. As far as I'm concerned, flash should only be used where appropriate. If you're looking to seriously make games, flash isn't for you.

But if you just want to dick around, or make incredibly non-interactive games, it might not be that bad of choice. Oh, and I guess its not bad for prototyping an interface or making a mockup either.

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