/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Why is /a/ filled with anti-mistery fags?

I went there out of curiosity and it was like talking to a wall.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
Because they're idiots.

[Anonymous No.]

i tried talking to them about manga a few times like akumetsu. but completely ignored cause those faggots are only interested in moe shit

[Anonymous No.]

Because most of the are only watching the anime and are 12 years old.

[None !..3NackuV6 No.]

They are furniture.

[Anonymous No.]

Because "lol the witch appeared so she must be true right?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
>implying magic doesn't exist
Oh you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246

>>Believes that a human could be the true culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm probably one of the few people on /a/ who has read the vn and I never get a decent theory thread going.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122269
>Thinks she's really an Endless Witch, yet she's just another piece to be used.

[None !..3NackuV6 No.]

>>3122269
>>3122268

[Anonymous No.]

I think we share around 30% of our Umineko community. But aside from that /a/ is tend to discuss the characters more than the actual story. That's why I'm negatively biased by these "Nice Mom" threads and the alike

They are just a different community about the same show

[Anonymous No.]

My only problem is that I saw 2 Uminek threads on /a/ today. One discussing episode 3 while they attempt to do theories (mainly Jessica=Beatrice because her hair is the same color lol) ,and another discussing episode 5 for god knows what reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122303
>Jessica=Beatrice because her hair is the same color
That must mean Battler and Ange are the same person too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122306
They aren't?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122317
And then Ange was the main character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122256
'Cept Akumetsu is shit as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122269
>>3122287

>>Actually believe that they are important characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122333

>Actually believe they are.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122336
wat?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122342

Disregard that, hit submit halfway through.

[None !..3NackuV6 No.]

>>3122341
It's funny because it's the other way around.

[Anonymous No.]

because /jp/ has finished all the games and can make theories, /a/ just started watching the anime so why would they build theories if they can be destroyed in next week's episode?

you should wait until the animu ends

[Anonymous No.]

Witches exist OP

[Anonymous No.]

lol witches

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122362
But many of the people who discuss that stuff also finished the VN and yet they are anti-mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122362
So you think they should ignore what makes Umineko so interesting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122368
>>Actually believes that witches exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122379
It's different. When one game is released you have a lot of time to discuss theories, since the next game won't be released next week.

Like, you don't start theories just after reading one chapter of the VN, you start once you finished. The same thing goes for the anime.

>>3122375
Well, dunno about that. But you gotta keep in mind that most of /a/ is just watching the anime, only a little part of it read the novels (and those probably discussed it on /jp/).

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122379
The anime doesnt really make it too interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122389
also, when people discuss the theories they want to do so with people on equal footing

like, if someone who just watches the anime makes a theory thread then someone that has played all the 4 games could spoil stuff and say if your theory is right or wrong

and that sucks, it's nice to discuss theories if everyone has the same knowledge that you have

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
>Why is /a/ filled with anti-mistery fags?

Because they're at episode 2. The first two episodes are pretty much the worst parts for anti-fantasy, and shit just goes uphill from there, starting with Vergilia explaining about Schrodinger's Cat. Up until that point, you have to 'believe' in anti-fantasy, because there's hardly anything to support it (apart from common sense). Anti-mystery really is prevalent for those two episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122468
I don't know, Episode one was easy enough to be anti-fantasy as no more than 18 people when it first appeared in Episode II was only applicable to Episode II if I remember correctly.

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

Everybody on /a/ seems to believe that the meta-world truly exists and there's no doubting it. And then they went off saying that they were true "Anti-Fantasy" fans.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122484
But the meta-world has nothing to with being anti-fantasy or anti-mystery

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122485
The other one was better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122499
What? The existence of the meta-world and Beatrice's identity are the biggest parts of the mystery. Simply accepting them is just as bad as accepting magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122506
However, outright denying them is essentially the same as denying the Red Text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122506
To being anti-fantasy the only thing you have to explain are the murders. That, there was no magic involved on the 4th and 5rd of October in Rokkenjima. Finding the true meaning of meta-world whatever it is is not part of denying Beatrice

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122499
Regardless of whatever you might say about purgatory, the meta-world hosts a number of witches. Usage of magic is commonplace. It even talks about things happening in other worlds.

No matter how you look at it, it's a complete fantasy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122528
No, that is what Battler must do. The reader is not Battler, and we are not limited to playing the witch's game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122533
See >>3122528
You don't have to deny it. Following Ange's logic from Ep4 you can even accept it as long you don't believe in it's existence in Rokkenjima on the said two days

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122548
Enjoy your shitty theories of "hurr metaworld is all in battler's head, he's delusional" or that it's all Maria's dream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122548

We are not, but the chances are high that the meta-world is really magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122568
Enjoy missing out on a core point of the story ┐(´ー｀)┌

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122582
Yes, I too enjoy explaining something that is magical in nature with delusions and/or dreams and never coming up with anything new.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122582
Hold on, denying the meta-world is a little far from the core of the story

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122578
Actually, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation to the meta-world, but it requires you to actually pay attention to what Ange discovers in her investigation.

The Episode 4 TIPS are there for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122592
Why do you have to resort to delusions? We've been given ways to look at it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122607
It's about the voyagers who've created a fake reality for a wannabe witch?

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122620
No, because voyagers are still witches. Anti-fantasy means that you explain all supernatural phenomena.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122620
Checked the TIPS VERY FAST
Replace fake reality with territory and fake witch with witch

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122614
Such as?

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3122246
Why does /a/ hate mist? Mist feels good, man.

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122643
The Mariage Sorciere theory, for one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122660
What's that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122748
It's basically one of the tips

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122748
It's basically saying that all the gameboards are merely fabrications written by a person named "Beatrice". Of course, this brief description doesn't really explain anything, but I'm not in a tl;dr mood to type up paragraphs that reveal the logic behind the theory.

If you want to know how it makes sense, go read up on Episode 4, and make note of what Ange discovers in 1998. Keep in mind the TIPS for that episode, and think about how the whole thing could've been made up.

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122748
It's basically saying that all the gameboards are merely fabrications written by a person named "Beatrice". Of course, this brief description doesn't really explain anything, but I'm not in a tl;dr mood to type up paragraphs that reveal the logic behind the theory.

If you want to know how it makes sense, go read up on Episode 4, and make note of what Ange discovers in 1998. Keep in mind the TIPS for that episode, and think about how the whole thing could've been made up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122826
I see where you're coming from. Basically, only one of the games actually happened and all those letters represent the other games, correct?

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122843
Something like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122826
That theory isn't bad but it does have one hole in it.
Namely EVA.
If you accept 98 as the only "true" future, when all the letters are found, that must mean the events of episode 3 are the only ones that took place, or at least something close to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122841
I guess I'll have to read more on that because right now I don't see how that could explain the meta world, red text, and the magic that meta Battler witnesses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122878
You don't have to accept the metaworld or red text. Allow the future of 1998 to be your evidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122889
You can't just pick what you can and can't believe based on whether it supports your theory.

[Anonymous No.]

I for one ignore the Metaworld. Two reasons.

You can just look at it as a fun literary device.

You can consider it inconsequential to the game. Does Battler really need to disprove all these wacky visions he's having? Can't he just solve the mystery of Rokenejima? Maybe it's like Higurashi. In the end it all turned out to be (psudo)science rather than a malevolent god. Except for the mechanism of the time loop. So maybe it's another combination solution, and not everything is required to win.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122962
Yes you can. You start with the axiom that magic doesn't exist (at all) and build a theory from there.

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>3122973
>Maybe it's like Higurashi.
Except that Ryuukishi said that people approach Umineko in the same way as Higurashi will get burned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122973
>You can just look at it as a fun literary device.

I agree on this. However, meta-world cannot be ignored completely. If red text didn't exist, the game couldn't advance properly. I just ignore meta-Battler's "I'll deny witches despite getting repeatedly killed by hot girls who can turn into self-propelled stakes and revived" act and look at the arguments.

Meta-world is Ryukishi's way of delivering some hints (how do you include the Kuwadorian flashback without Beatrice reminiscencing? How can you flat out say "those ways of explaining the mystery are not the answers" if not for the red text? ) and spicing things up a bit.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>3123046
Who knows what meaning he meant though. He could be referring to people who expect a Rokkenjima Syndrome or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123009
Ok. Well I'm going to claim that magic exists by believing that the magic fights all happened and anything that suggests that magic might not exist never happened. See how this gets us nowhere? The game has rules for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

I see it two ways. The meta-world is a literary device allowing both Battler and the reader to solve the mystery. Secondly, the meta-world is only allowed to exist because the truth behind the events is still clouded with doubt, helped along by the letters that "Maria" penned.

In my view, the umineko universe isn't entirely anti-fantasy, magic is somewhat real, but it's bound by the rules as Ange discovers them. If only one truth is known, the anti-magic venom is too strong for magic to exist.

[Anonymous No.]

I see it two ways. The meta-world is a literary device allowing both Battler and the reader to solve the mystery. Secondly, the meta-world is only allowed to exist because the truth behind the events is still clouded with doubt, helped along by the letters that "Maria" penned.

In my view, the umineko universe isn't entirely anti-fantasy, magic is somewhat real, but it's bound by the rules as Ange discovers them. If only one truth is known, the anti-magic venom is too strong for magic to exist. Before the box is opened, (before the mystery is solved) however, both truths can exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
Anti-fantasy is full of religious like bigots. They ignore everything they can't prove, harp on things they can "prove" and have the arrogance to think that "A man did it with <insert least plausible means that they have no way (or inclination) to prove did it>" and fold their arms and say "we won".

Arm chair detectives the lot of ya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123132
Then you have already lost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123157
>Arm chair detectives the lot of ya.
No shit, isn't that the point of the VN?

What, do you want us to bring in a professional detective and have him play and come up with theories?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123132
Magic existing is not a rule of the game

[Anonymous No.]

I believe that the theory that battler's sin is related to Mariage Sorciere, 12 year old battler in some way offended the person who would later develop the Beatrice personality. Most likely Jessica or Shannon.

And thus "they" (they being Beatrice and the original personality) started planning the murders hence the message in the bottles.

However things do not go as planned, and Eva survives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123168
I didn't throw the term out there because you're all amateurs, I threw the term out there because you're all incompetent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123210
Not as incompetent as anti-mystery fags who don't even try and just accept everything they're told.

[None !..3NackuV6 No.]

>>3123210
Quiet, Beato.

[Anonymous No.]

Just started watching Umineko. From the way you guys carry on I was expecting Battler to be some super cool guy. Instead, he's just picture related.

[Anonymous No.]

>game
>play

Why do people use this words when discussing a VN that is COMPLETELY NON-INTERACTIVE?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123240
>watching
Well there's your problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123218
Yes because clearly small bombs is a logical, well thought out explanation that deserves praise.

Or relying on a mythical "trap x" is any better than relying on a witch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123255
In it's context small bombs does actually make alot of sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123264
No it doesn't. This is 1980's not 2009 where it maybe conceivable to put an explosive in someone's food.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123168
This reminds me of something someone said to the effect of "imagine if you brought in a world-class detective to investigate a crime, and after a few weeks he presented you with an extremely thorough proof that it wasn't done by witches." I can't remember the context but oh did it make me lol.

[Anonymous ‮～ᚻᛟᛟᛟᛟᚩᛗ ‪‪‪‬ ‪‬ ‭‬ !Jones4ZrPA No.]

>>3123281
You don't think they had small bombs in the 80s?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123283
I lol'd.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>3123245
>>An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123245
Depends. It's not the right word to use when referring to ourselves, but "game" and "play" come into play a lot when talking about Battler's situation with Beato.

[None !..3NackuV6 No.]

>>3123281
I wouldn't put it past Kinzo...

[Anonymous No.]

More butterflies = bigger lie.
Rosa killed Maria.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123284
Not small enough to ingest without knowledge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123323
Okay, first they were drugged, then they were given not-so-unnoticable small bombs, which they were too doped up to spot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123245
You are not playing with the novel, you are playing with the writer. Ryukishi slightly shapes the story based on how his readers react.

It was actually said in an interview that he was supposed to reveal that Kinzo is already dead in a later Episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123255
Battler didn't present the small bombs theory because he actually believes it. You should understand that much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123359
I'm rooting for Japan also being awash in Shannon=Kanon, and the very first scene of Ep5 is Battler arriving on the island and being greeted by Shannon and Kanon side by side as Ryukishi07's answer.

[Anonymous No.]

Small bombs is the only theory of Battler's from the ep4 tea party that is actually true. It's made to be so ridiculous and even Bern doubts it, but in the end Lambda didn't deny it and we're just supposed to accept it's so ridiculous it can't be true. That's the trap. Small bombs are real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123393
If Shannon isn't actually Kanon, Ryuukishi07 at least strongly wanted us to believe she is.

[Anonymous No.]

Ronove states that in red The scenario where Rosa killed Maria and then died is false

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123406
Oh, and any of the other crazy theories he came up with are more believable? How about the one where Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji all shoot each other?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123421
The point is to either get these theories by Beatrice, or have her deny them in red. If she has to actually explain how the crimes did/did not happen, then that puts the burden of proof on her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123420
Huh? Battler eventually pinned that on Eva.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123247
No, the problem is Battler. He's a fag regardless of which medium you put him in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123421
Since that theory has been denied in red, there is literally only one person who could have killed those three.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123444
That's only if you assume everyone was actually dead in the shed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123444
Do not even try to say Maria did it. It's more likely one on the people in the shed wasn't dead.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3123444
Kumasawa did it because she's really Virgilia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123451
You don't even have to go that far. Kanon was perfectly capable of doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123447
No, no. I wasn't going to say that.
>>3123451
That's true, disregard what I said, there are actually people - if Shannon = Kanon crossdressing is true, it could have been a mystery 17th person, maybe human Beatrice. It could have also been Kanon. If Shannon = Kamon isn't true, it could have been Shannon.

It can't be any of the others in the shed because Shannon's corpse is the only one not to be confirmed via red text or via Battler's eyes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123451
No, no. I wasn't going to say that.
>>3123447
That's true, disregard what I said, there are actually three people - if Shannon = Kanon crossdressing is true, it could have been a mystery 17th person, maybe human Beatrice. It could have also been Kanon. If Shannon = Kamon isn't true, it could have been Shannon.

It can't be any of the others in the shed because Shannon's corpse is the only one not to be confirmed via red text or via Battler's eyes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123447
Which means Nanjo's in on it. But wait...

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123460
I'd only be willing to believe this is Kanon was working under orders from someone else, say Jessica or Natsuhi.

[Anonymous No.]

I bet jessica was the culprit for episode 1 just because jessica shooting natsuhi in the face would cause the most DRAMA

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123491
How does she shoot Natsuhi while in a different room? Does she have the Farsight gun?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123491
And where do you think Jessica was at the time? If Jessica was the culprit, she'd need an accomplice.

It makes sense that it's probably Shannon. She's the only one that could have dressed up as Beatrice and trick Maria into thinking she was Beatrice near the end when they're in the parlor. Then Shannon can just kill Natsuhi in the entrance way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123478
He's likely always involved to some extent. He did need money badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123491
She was with George, Battler and Maria at the time when Natsuhi was shot, wasn't she?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123506
but the bodies in the storageroom were confirmed

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123491
Jessica is one of the few people that absolutely couldn't have done that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123507
Of course he's in on it at least slightly with Kinzo being dead from the begining and all. For most of Episode 1 he has no Alibi, what so ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123513
Only the unidentified bodies. Krauss and Shannon's bodies were seemingly identified.

[Anonymous No.]

Hideyoshi and Nanjo were clearly the episode 1 culprits. Hideyoshi was found in a warm bath to hide his body temperature, and was able to move freely after the room was sealed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123525
Nah, It was Rudolph and Kyrie
it was just a fleshwound

[Anonymous No.]

Nanjo is a pure man, and would never be involved in this sick game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123543
Pure as my dick. He needs money to fund his loli sex ring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
>>3122269

>>>/rs/ I'd be sad about your images' quality. But I can't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123579
Fake witches can't red text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123579
lrn2redtext

[Anonymous No.]

Not discussing the crimes here, but the background of the island. Do you think the setting is the same for all crimes until the plane and boat trip, or not ?

From Rosa's story and Beato's flashback in Banquet (if they are true), one may suppose that anti-fantasy setting is sci-fi : cloning exists, and Kinzo cloned the original Beatrice after her suicide. This Beatrice II, living a life in cage and unknowing of the world, die again because of Rosa. In Banquet, there seems to be no more Beatrice, but in Turn, Beatrice III may be another 20 year old clone, created after Beatrice II's demise.

Going further that way, the furnitures may be genetic experiments of Kinzo. Genji is a clone of someone (maybe someone named Ronove), and Shanon and Kanon not clones but artificial beings created from genetic material from different donors (and the "orphanage" of Kinzo the scientific facility that creates those artificial being). Thus their debt of life, loyalty and furniture status.

Of course, all this seem very sci-fi for a 1986 background, so it might be even sillier than very small bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123603

>>>/rs/ I did a small mistake, so ignore it.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>3123611
It may sound impossible for 1986 technology, but I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

Either way, impossible sounding technology is always more likely than something like magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123611
I thought we agreed that all non-magic scenes not during Oct 4th-5th could be taken as true. Or true atleast to those who remember it in the case of flashbacks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123611
Yeah, that's getting pretty far into the anti-mystery category. Beatrice II could have either been the daughter of the first Beatrice, or simply a girl who had a similar appearance.

As for the "furniture", I don't see any reason to doubt the information we've been given. Genji is a long-term servant and friend, and the -ons are just orphans raised into servants. I'm sure Kinzo had an ulterior motive with the orphanage, but I doubt it's anything that ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123625
Do you really think that applies to all of them? How about Maria's diary interpreted through Ange? There's plenty of information that could have been lost/added there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123579
>>Can't even use red text right.
>>3123579
>>Is a granny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123650
I'm not sure quite what you mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123631

The furniture are mysterious enough as it is. Kanon and Shannon may or may not be the same person, and Genji's the guy carrying on Kinzo's legacy of batshit craziness. Whenever Genji dies - No more magic circles for that episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123664
>Uses images with bad transparency too.
>>>/rs/ They're ugly.
I won't blame you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
r u babboon
> www.anystalk.com, nys = non

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123676
Sure Genji is suspicious, but I don't think there has to be anything sci-fi about it. He's known Kinzo since they were Battler's age, so they're obviously as close as can be. It's not a stretch to think that he would carry out Kinzo's wishes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123708

I think we were agreeing with eachother without realizing it...

[Anonymous No.]

>>3122246
>mistery

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123611
This was actually my first thought when I heard about the episode 3 piece Beato as well. Not as deep as the entire staff of furniture being 'fake', but I definitely thought of cloning as a possible explanation.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3122246

>I WENT TO /A/

Oh, okay! Nice! Great job! Can't see anything going wrong here!

>and all I got was this shitty butthurt.

Sick anecdote, dude.

[Anonymous No.]

Beatrice II died in the world of 1967, and had the appearance of a girl in her late teens, right? No matter how rich grandfather may be, I can't see him cloning anyone in the 40s/50s.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123777

Why are you such a faggot?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123777
You are the Taiga of /jp/, do you know that?

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3123798

Who's that? And why should I care about them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3123837
Why are you such a faggot?

[Anonymous No.]

Jesus christ Arc, stop samefagging up the thread.

[Anonymous No.]

BACK TO ADVENTURE!

>>3123793

I don't really see a reason for Kinzo to need clones in the first place. He believes in magic, he would probably believe that the dead lover he's obsessed with has been reincarnated into some little girl he found on the street. So Beato II's the portrait girl, and Beato III hasn't been seen for a long enough time to assume that she's not a disguise.