/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What's wrong with her? Does she have a fever or something?

[Anonymous No.]

She wants you to put vapor rub on her chest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031014
It's Puyo Pop Fever.
It'll go away with a fine amount of puyo popping.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031022
Who the hell would want to touch her chest?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031022

Makes sense. Vicks VapoRub is some strong shit.

[Anonymous No.]

swine flu

[Anonymous No.]

I wish Hollow Ataraxia was translated soon so that I could get more Luvia.

I downloaded Realta Nua and reinstalled the whole thing just to hear her one line in the end. <3

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031101
Enjoy your one scene with Luvia and no voices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031103

That's still 100% more Luvia scenes. ;_;

[Ｍｏｒａｌｆａｇ Ｐｒｉｍｅ !CURRY/D.b2!!eHwd9yRamz5 No.]

She has a fever.
THE FEVER OFbeing a slut{/spoiler]

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031107
Maybe one day, Luvia will become a real character.

[Anonymous No.]

Tsundere bullshit, etc.

[Anonymous of Croatia !na1byG1GU. No.]

>>3031127
Yeah look forward to Fate Stay Night 2

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031107
>one scene
>100% more
No, that's an undefined amount more, because you're dividing by zero. And then multiplying by 100.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031141

Holy shit, you're right! It's like INFINITELY MORE Luvia. Man I can't wait for the HA translation!

;_;

[Anonymous No.]

The only difference between Rin and Luvia is that Luvia still has an unbroken hymen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031150
Not infinitely more, UNDEFINED.
Theoretically infinite, in practise not.

[Anonymous No.]

>Fate Stay Night 2

Clap your hands if you believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031159

Also, that Rin sells herself for scraps at the London metro while Luvia has a servant whose only job is to wipe her ass with money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031132
You mean FSN Movie, don't you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031172
Luvia offered her a job. But of course, Rin refused to work for her.

[Anonymous No.]

Why isn't Shirou providing for his woman? What kind of man is he?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031101
F/HA is being translated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031226
Shirou is on the opposite side of the planet at that point in time if I've got this sorted out right in my head.

>>3031239
Yes. Slowly. From Korean. ETA is 2012, shortly before the world ends.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031159

The similarity is a part of her charm. I love the idea that somebody is being to Rin what Rin is to normal people - an insufferable cunt who regards her as lower than a cockroach and has nothing but taunts, put-downs and scorn for her. To round out the perfection, Luvia is polite and respectful to normal people who "really" should be beneath her. She sort of metes out social justice, in a bizarre way, though of course she doesn't think about that.

The funny thing is that after I found out about Luvia, I actually started liking Rin a bit more too. It's like as if in Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya there was suddenly a character who does to Haruhi what Haruhi does to everybody else - she'd be still annoying, but at least there would be some sort of payback.

[Anonymous No.]

WWW
WWW
WWW
DOT
AAA
NNN
OOO
NNN
TTT
AAA
LLL
KKK
DOT
CCC
OOO
MMM

[Anonymous No.]

Something semi-serious I've been thinking:

The situation after FSN, any path, is that the Tohsaka lineage is in dire straits. Their fortune is almost entirely spent (only the big house in Japan remains, if she doesn't sell her home Rin is dead broke) and there is only one living descendant. After HF route Rin knows how to gain access to the Second Sorcery, but she lacks the physical means - namely the astronomical amounts of money and gems an attempt would cost.

Now, Edelfelts 1) are related to Tohsakas, 2) swim in money, and 3) have a grudge against them for stealing their Gandr. Screw job offers, wouldn't it be the best for both parties for them to outright adopt Rin? The new family would reclaim Gandr AND gain the Second Sorcery, something Rin could never manage alone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031300
Except Rin does not treat most people this way, and it's rather the exception. She does not met out Justice, Rin treats Luvia as Luvia treats Rin after all.
Silly character misinterpretation is silly.

>>3031422
Silly grudges are not resolved easily in the Magic World, and she can remake the specific Sword, not just use Second Sorcery which is irrelevant to funds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031422
We also gain from that: angry lesbian half-incest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031422
Rin should really just band together with Shirou and Sakura and dominate the magic tournament.

[Anonymous No.]

There’s no way you can set your eyes on this woman and not have her. You stand up and walk around to Luvia. She looks up to you with a questioning look.
“Luvia…you’re gorgeous.”
Before she can respond you lean forward and kiss her. She does a yelp as you thrust your tongue down her throat. You release to take a breath and she looks up to you while gasping as well. You dive right back in, and grab both of her huge breasts and begin massaging them. Unexpectedly, you feel her tongue begin massaging yours as well. As you pull away to get air, she pushes forward wanting more.
“Luvia…”
This time she dives into you. She pulls you in towards her onto the couch, and you fall on top of her. Your tongues swim together like a dolphin couple within the sea. You unbutton Luvia’s top and pull down her bra, exposing her huge breasts. You open your mouth wide like a whale shark, and swallow as much of her breast as you can. With your hand you massage the other. Luvia lets out gasps of air, and her whole body tweaks or shivers as you play with her nipples – her breasts are very sensitive. Your other hand glides down and pulls down her laced panties. Your mouth slithers up, kissing her neck, and moving back to her mouth. You move Luvia to lie on her side while still kissing her. With one hand you know play with her nipples and the other you squeeze and rub her ample ass. Luvia’s hand moves down as well and she begins fingering her ass.
“I want it in here.”
You place a finger inside her as well, and the two move in and out of anus to get it ready. You turn her onto her back, so that as she gets wet it drips down to her other hole. As it opens up, you both add in more fingers.

[Anonymous No.]

“I think I’m ready.”
You take off your pants and your fully erect member immediately springs out like a sting ray from the sand. Luvia lets out a tiny yelp from surprise. Her look says that she’s not as ready as she thought she was. Smirking, you enter her anyway. She lets out small moans and bites her lower lip as you slowly push in. Her asshole wraps around your member extremely tight, slowly trying to devour it, like an eel eating a prey a bit too large for it handle.
As time passes, Luvia adjusts to your member perfectly, and you alternate thrusting fast and slow, shallow and deep. You play with her breasts and kiss her. When you’re almost ready to release, you lift Luvia up from behind her knees and place her on her lap facing away from you. You move her up and down, faster and faster. You and her breaths gasp in sync.
“I-I’m coming! I’m coming!”
As you release your massive load into Luvia, flooding her stomach with your seed, she let’s out a loud orgasm. To your surprise she cums with a stream, spraying across Tohsaka’s living room like a whale’s blowhole.
“A-Amazing.” You say in astonishment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031495

There is no magic tournament, she just hoped there would be one.

[Anonymous No.]

Luvia breathes with long heavy gasps. She turns her head to face you.
“One more time!”
Luvia really took everything out of you. In order to keep going you strengthen your member. You begin thrusting once again. You let go of Luvia’s legs and she bends over, leaning on the tea table. From this position, you grip her hips and ass, and can move even faster. You do so, speeding up her breaths and making her let out small yelps.
“I’m going to cum! Lift me up like last time!”
You hold her behind her knees and lift her up in one swoosh. You thrust madly, and the two of you cum in sync again. Luvia sprays all over the tea table once again. You see her stomach slightly swelling from all the seed you’ve pumped into her. You pull out, and like a broken dam, your cum floods out all over the couch.
“Haha, Rin will be so mad we made a mess in her house! Hahaha!”

[Anonymous No.]

Luvia turns around on your lap. Facing you she gives you a kiss.
“Ah, I can’t take it anymore! I should really save this for marriage, but I can’t help it!”
Luvia rubs against your member. You hold her by the hips and slightly lift her up. She spreads her pussy open, and you slowly lower her onto you. She lets out an orgasm and kisses you in lust. Her hot virgin blood drips down your legs and onto the couch, along with her cum. You move her up and down slowly, making her get accustomed for her first time. She wraps her arms around you and kisses you on the cheek.
“Thanks for being so gentle. But you can go faster now.”
You do as she requests. You look at her face, and she is entirely drowning in lust. Her mouth hangs open, and her tongue slightly dangles out her mouth. Occasionally she drools onto your shoulder and chest. Luvia let’s out a moan.
“I’m going to cum! N-Not inside, ok?!”
You smirk, letting her know that’s one request you won’t comply with. You ejaculate inside her, and she cums like she has before. The force of her cum spray onto your member feels amazing; nothing like you’ve felt before.
“Geez…You’re going to have to take responsibility. Only the man I marry is supposed to do that. You know what that means, right?”
“…"
Luvia giggles and gives you a kiss on your cheek.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031495

There is no magic tournament, she just wished there was one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031533
>>3031541
>>3031548
>>3031551
What a slut. Even Rin didn't take it in the ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031422

Strategically that could make sense, but the canon is very clear that in nasuverse, magus families are insanely, absurdly snobbish. Both parties would probably rather die than accept that. Rin certainly would think she's betraying her father if she'd allow her entire bloodline to be swallowed by a larger one.

Still, I'd like to see what Rin Edelfelt would look like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031533
>>3031541
>>3031548
>>3031551
FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031533
>>3031541
>>3031548
>>3031551
What did I just fap to?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031610

Shitty fan-fiction

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031695

[Anonymous No.]

Is she supposed to be religious or something, what with the giant crosses all over her clothes/jewelry?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031809

Interesting. Sauce?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031828
family of hidden christians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031835
F/HA

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031843

Really? You've got to give me the context, man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031835
F/HA

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031851
I would, but I've not yet read F/HA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031809
>>3031860

So, what... does a scenario like >>3031422 come up or what? What's the story here?

[Anonymous No.]

OP here. I just found a far superior board without morons so I'm leaving Retardchan forever now:

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.com

-- Where smart Internet users hang! Are you a smartie or a dumbass?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031871
In playing out the roles of the third Holy Grail War, Rin and Sakura take the roles of the two Edelfeldt sisters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031881
So when do the Edelfelts and Tohsakas start crossbreeding?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032038
Third war surving sister married the Tohsaka of that war, I believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032061
So that's Rin's... grandparents?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032074
Great/Great-great grandparents, I believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031103
>Enjoy your one scene with Luvia and no voices.

Read Kaleid Liner. She has a bigger role there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032095
It;s shit.

[Anonymous No.]

I think those Edelfelt sisters summoned two Sabers...Is that right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031103
>Enjoy your one scene with Luvia and no voices.

Or read Kaleid Liner. She has a bigger role there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032101
Two very different interpretations of the same legendary hero, due to their unique circumstances.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032103
Downloadan. Better be good anon...

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032112
It was regular Saber and Dark Saber, right? Nonetheless, they summoned two Sabers...That's possible?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032120

Ilya is Shirou's imouto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032120
Prepare to fap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032125
Saber and Dark Saber are used in the 'HA' reconstruction of the 3d war. Original hero summoned is unknown.

Also, the twin Sisters had two identical crests(Edelfelt trait) and were chosen as a single master, so they summoned the two Facets of a Hero.
It's one of the glitches of teh Grail War (kinda like Fake Assassin, Avenger summoned etc)

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032125
Info should be on the fuyuki wiki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032138
Ohhhh. Thanks for the clear up.

Hm, wonder who that original hero was...Perhaps someone with a split personality?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032153
This is just a guess, but... Gawain, perhaps?

Gawain pre and post Lancelot are pretty much entirely different people apart from their martial prowess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032153
Someone from Finland, I would imagine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032194
No, there's a reason for that - Lancelot slayed his entire family. That made Gawain determined to kill Lancelot. Not until he was dying giving Arthur his final words did he realize the error of his ways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032237
Sorry, I shouldn't say entire family, but those of his family that were knights.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032242
>>3032237

You misunderstand; I'm speaking within the context of the evolution of Arthurian myth, not the myth itself.

Basically, all of the traits now applied to Lancelot (who didn't exist in the earliest versions and was later introduced as a knavish berserker) originally belonged to Gawain. It's just that after the French gave their interpretation of the story, Gawain and Lancelot ended up switching roles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032278
If that's the case, that wouldn't result in Gawain having split personalities, but simply he can be summoned as Berserker just like Lancelot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032290
Lancelot could be Summoned as a Saber possibly too. Servants are not just tied to one class, they are just filters looking for a few traits.
His point is, for that specific glitch, you have Pre-Lancelot Introduction Gawain, and post-introduction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032120
Gorram Anon, gief lank!

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032314
Just google the name of the source, wasn't that hard to find. (Kaleid Liner) Archer Illya is awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

Ilyarcher?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032330
Hm. Damn. I assumed "kaleid" was a typo, and searched for "kaleido liner". Got it already. :V

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032302
Yes, I know and agree.
They explained it with Heracles. He can be every class except Caster.
Also Cu Chullian can be Berserker.
And Saber (Arturia) could be Rider and maybe even Lancer as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032346
It's just that we were discussing if Gawain is the one with a split-personality and summoned in the 3rd War. I say no. Nearly all the knights had different personalities through their solo myths as well as core Arthur myth has been rewritten several times. By that logic, it could be any of the Knights of the Round, including Lancelot and Arthur (Arturia in this case).

[Anonymous No.]

Let's say Luvia was a master. Who would she summon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032444
Ilmarinen. Or Simo Häyhä. Either way everyone else would be fucked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032444
She was supposed to be Lancer's master early on before Bazett came along.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032444

If we're going to be boring and go with Kalevala as the source, the obvious options would be Väinämöinen as either Caster or Saber, Louhi/Lovetar/Loviatar as Rider or Caster, Lemminkäinen as Archer, and Kullervo as Berserker, Saber or maybe even Assassin. Ilmarinen is a good one too, but I have no idea what class would suit a blacksmith (maybe Caster?).

Some of the above have been mythological "downgrades" of gods. Väinämöinen would conceivably be a pretty sweet deal, nobody wants a Caster so that slot should be open, and summoning a hero who merely conquered the world (Gilgamesh) is small potatoes next to summoning one who _constructed_ the world.

Going away from that source, things get trickier. I don't actually know enough about Finnish mythology to come up with anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031837
Sooo christian magic?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032444
Max Payne.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032568


This. Assassin, Berzerker or Archer.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032540
But Sumerian origin stories predate Finnish ones by an enormous difference in time. One precludes the other from being the "creator" of the world, or at least should.

I mean, Ea is the "Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth."

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032620
>But Sumerian origin stories predate Finnish ones by an enormous difference in time.

Not really. Gilgamesh is tracked back to about 2700 years BC, while the origins of the songs Kalevala was based on are "a couple thousand years". It's only the book itself that's young, but the book is an imperfect collection of much older myths.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032620
That's purely a Nasu attribute for starters.
Second, Gil having it does not mean he was alive at the time. Third, it does not contradict not overshadow a guy who can construct the world.
The hierarchy of legends/pantheons etc would be determined thereafter.

Although, I would want some of the NPs of Kalevala..
Unlimited Salt, wheat and GOLD is glorious.

[Anonymous No.]

The Emiya family and the Tohsaka family are intermarrying. So the offspring will be particularly powerful magi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032645
There were not even really 'myths' with structure passed down upon the ages. They were a collection of poems and songs from folklore and tradition. Elias Lonnrot deserves credit for managing to compile all this shit.
>>3032659
Shirou is not an 'Emiya'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032659
>Emiya Family
I think you mean unknown lineage family, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032620
What are the requirements for a summon anyway?
The characters are only fidgements of imagination, like Assassin and true Assassin, their relationship proves you can have anyone appear with enough followers believing in the entity/ties doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032659
They won't inherit a crest though.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032645
Yeah, with the Epic of Gilgamesh being based on even older myths, etc.

The region is much older than the north, though. You can't top that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032669
False Assasin is a special case though, due to being summoned by Caster.
Only rules off hand are can't be a diety.
brb checking fuyuki wiki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032669
The false assassin wasn't really an actual servant (just some wraith caster found and forced into being a servant), true assassins are all seperate souls of people who lived. Otherwise you need to be human and defy fate, hence why a hero without fame like Shirou could be summoned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032669
Oh,boy.
Pay attention next time.
Hassans(True assassin) existed.

Fake Assassin is an unknown guy(Wraith, not a heroic spirit) who mastered the sword and was called upon to pretend and play the role of Kojiroh(whether he existed or not in the first place, irrelevant). The reason this happened is because Caster was the master.
So either the hero must exist, or a hero close to that image must exist (strictly Speaking, Saber does not bear the image the legends give her, but she is the one true King)

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032669
True Assassin existed, and Assassin did exist. True Assassin is one of many Hashshashin masters that share a collective identity, meaning any one of them can be summoned. Fake Assassin was a conglomerate: a real warrior that could use the longsword and pull off the attack attributed to Kojiro, but wasn't actually Kojiro. He just got co-opted into it because he was capable of doing what was attributed to Sasaki Kojiro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032692
Confusing 4th Assassin with facts bro.
18 Distinct Hassans, only 4th has the 'many people, multiple souls' attribute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032685
Alright found a few interesting points:
Also, no matter how much worship or fame there might be for a hero, if that "hero" was just about the same as a normal person,
-Physical transmission as a Servant is not always perfect.
-

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032705
You are a moron, apparently. All of the Hashshashin masters share the same group recognition, meaning any one of them can be summoned under the title "Assassin".

"Identity" != "Consciousness"

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032680
>>The region is much older than the north, though. You can't top that.

Maybe. My details on ancient Sumerians are hazy. I want you to understand something though: the tribe that's currently known as 'Finns' moved to the area immediately after the ice age and hasn't budged since. That's approximately 7,000-10,000 years ago. So we're not exactly talking about something that was born yesterday on that end of the map either. These myths are pre-historic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032714
Well, the Class itself is 'Call one of teh Hassans' pretty much, so obvious comment was obvious and confusing

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032717
Quick google search says People had switched to agriculture in the Fertile Crescent ~7000 B.C. Checking for when people settled there.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032719
It's not an obvious comment when he seems to think that True Assassin was fictional, and when Assassin is the only class that has such a restriction on who can be in it. Only Hashshashin can be called into the Assassin class... before Angry Manjew completely destroyed the foundations of the Grail, anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032722

Fertile crescent was probably the area where most of the entire mankind were packed during the ice age - the only spot warm enough to live. Once the ice started falling back, people started spreading out from there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031055
oh shit, I love that stuff!

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032731
Result I had gotten only said when Neolithic rev. happened for those that would later be called Sumerians, I believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032620
>One precludes the other from being the "creator" of the world, or at least should.

I'm not sure about this. Isn't it a part of Grail's nature that it can treat conflicting mythologies as simultaneously true?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032473
>Simo Häyhä

FUCK

YES

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032744
I don't believe we've ever been presented with such a case in the games.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032744
In Nasuverse, many religions and mythologies can be true simultaneously, because conceptual truth is very, very odd.

But "maker of the world" is something a little harder to define, and I don't think I've seen anything that states who Nasu considers the ultimate form of divinity.

The Christian god is highly effective against "demons" and such, while various other religions have their strong points. And then there's the fact that the world itself is alive and has its own will, collective unconscious survival of humanity, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031706
>>3031762
http://plus4chan.org/boards/coc/res/14593.html#i15118

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032768
Isn't it obvious?

Nasu is God.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032768
Maker of the world would probably be Akasha/a Personification of Akasha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032776
Nasu is not God.
Just the Demiurg.
>>3032768
There is also the possibility that different entities/deities are recognized differently through various places or timelines.

So, the story of creation of the world by the Same beings, the way Gaia exists etc, gets different editions.
And in different timelines, depending on the prevalent legend and people, different heroes and monsters popped up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032789
If I remember my F/SN history most myths and legends happened, or via Akasha/Gaia hax due to belief time was rewritten to include those legends. or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032473
>>3032752
Wow, and a month ago I was feeling really clever for coming up with that on my own. Of course, holding the world record for ranged kills really screams "Heroic Spirit." I can't help but imagine him shouting "Mosin-Nagant" and then making heads explode from miles away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032813
They did happen.
The concern is if gods and circumstances caused them to exist(like a normal development of history in that magical world), or just human will(demanding heroes of legends as they pictured them to appear and do what they do), or both.
Not cleared up, since it's not necessary and not heavily explored.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032822
Guns can't be NP's

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032825
brb skimming fuyukiwiki again

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032829
Then how is he supposed to kill other Servants? ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032829
Says who?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032829
Why? What's the difference between a gun, sword and bow?

[Anonymous !Jones4ZrPA No.]

>>3032850
Age.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032829
Who said that

[Anonymous No.]

Noble Phantasms are just the symbols of the heroic spirit. They can be anything, they don't even have to be weapons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032841
pseudo-magic bullets like kiritsugu? OR reinforced bullets as I believe things improved by reinforcement can hurt servants. Just needs to be a little bit magical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032850
Having a gun, I KNOW I CAN KILL.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032850
Generally, it's much easier to kill with a gun, and it's the weapon, not the skill that matters usually (in comparison to the skill needed for melee or bows)
Can still be a simple weapon and not an NP of the Servant.
To be an NP it would require a very unique Gun and quite unique 'slinging'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032829

Hmm so Guess those guns that Lancelot (beserker) used doesn't count unless that's only because of his ability to turn anything into a weapon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032869

Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero used an ANCIENT SUMERIAN SPACESHIP.

I think it's a pretty fucking safe bet that mere guns can be holy phantasms just fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032869
Everything he grabs becomes his NP.
Also, you do not need a weapon/skill to be an NP to be effective, it's more that NPs have a higher mystery/rank due to being part of the legend (but actual strength/effect remains)

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032869
Yes.
What >>3032868 said factors in as well. Now say you had a gun similiar to Black Barrel, odds are it would count as a Noble Phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032873
Again, I stress out.
Not everything a Servant/uses has is an actual NP.
Strictly speaking,not all of Gil's weapons are not NPs, they are just insanely strong weapons that later became glorified(of course some were already famous weapons when he acquired them, apparently).

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032873
>ANCIENT SUMERIAN SPACESHIP
Are you shitting me?

[Anonymous No.]

I still haven't heard a good reason why specifically guns would be exempted from being noble phantasms. Nothing in the games suggests such a limitation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032893
Nope, Lancelot then procedes to touch an F-15 an NP-ify it through Eternal Arms Mastery. They then have a dogfight.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032858
They are more than just symbols of heroes. They're something that defines the hero and becomes, like the hero, a focus of belief and a form of reverence.

Things from this age are very unlikely to ever be considered Noble Phantasms, not only because heroes are no longer mysterious and transhuman, but because the workings of all things are explainable.

The closest thing to that would be something like the Enola Gay, or some other war machine that has notoriety. But the fact that the workings are explainable and mundane prevents the Enola Gay from ever turning into an icon for humanity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032897
Not specifically 'GUNS'.
A weapon like a CATAPULT would not really be considered an NP associated with a hero and his skills, since any idiot can throw a big rock or something.
That's the point.
Everyone can use a Tank, but how many can summon/ride pegasus?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032912
>Everyone can use a Tank
I can't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032912

What? Where does this skill requirement come from? And frankly, operating a tank seems to require much greater skill than swinging a sword or riding a glorified horse.

[Anonymous No.]

This fuyukiwiki page might shed a bit more light on the matter:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070511032258/fuyuki.pbwiki.com/Artifact

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032923
Highlighting points:
-Crystallized "mysteries". Armaments made using the imagination of humans as their cores and the weapons of Heroic Spirits.
-Weapons with years and years of history,
-Being legendary, Noble Phantasms are far greater than other weapons

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032917
Anyone can learn to drive a tank.

Not everyone can carry the world on their back.

Noble phantasms are symbols of heroes, but the most important requirement is that you achieve something that defies "fate".

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032917
>>3032922
It's actually quite simple (compulsory army training).
And taking out an ARMY with a sword>Army with a tank.
Also, Even if they had the same Damage, the Mystery of Beamspam excalibur>Easy Science of Tank round.

These are just examples.
It's not that they are de facto disqualified, but you should understand why it's harder to become a part of legend themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

Since we're doing wikispam:
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Noble_Phantasm

"In the legend of a hero, there is not only the man that the hero was, but the anecdotes about him, his arms and weapons; all of this symbolizes his existence. These symbols are the ultimate mysteries that the Servant, the embodiment of the heroic spirit, carries as a trump card. Such is the deadly weapon called "Noble Phantasms". Noble Phantasms are the crystallization of the historical facts and anecdotes that made the heroic spirit famous, but that does not necessarily have to be an offensive weapon; it can be a shield, a ring, a crown, but also a specific ability or a unique method of combat."

Something that the hero was famous for. That spells to me it's his badge, his symbol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032927

That still says absolutely nothing about some arbitrary skill requirement. That's just bullshit you made up.

[Anonymous No.]

Without generic Fantasy settings FSN is finished. Would've been 10 times better if Nitro+ had made it.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032922
Things only become icons of humanity if they represent the absolute of ideal and ability. Hercules is an example of the ultimate hero who is known by all and revered as a paragon. Excalibur is an example of an object which achieved recognition and belief beyond what any normal object could ever achieve.

A tank, in this age, is simply a tank. There's no mystery or skill involved. It's something that anyone could learn to use.

Only Hercules could be Hercules and live that destiny, and only the true King of Briton could use Excalibur.

The difference is huge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032932
So if all aircraft use antigravity in 200 years, would the Red Baron's conventional plane be considered 'mysterious' enough to qualify as a Noble Phantasm, assuming that he's a heroic spirit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032936
Not the same guy.
During F/SN, it's explained why in the world of today, Heroes and NPs are pretty much not existent.
Since NPs are a result of 'human praise' in the end, A guy using a gun, no matter the achievement, the actual process is mundane. The gun is not something unique to the hero, and anyone using it can do something similar is the example.
I didn't make this up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032946
No, cause the science before anti-gravity should still be known and achievable.
Anyone can fly that plane or something similar.
What mattered was Baron's skill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032946
If the Red Baron became a Heroic spirit, since people 200 years from now should still know how a plane works, it might not be a NP but simple a normal armament similiar to Fake Assassin's sword.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032939
Don't just throw generic around.
And it's CONSTRUCTED and relies upon this fantasy setting to tell the story and get the characters to interact.
'Without being wet , it would be dry'.
Great observation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032953

What the balls? You're seriously trying to tell me that "anybody" can duplicate any feat of the best sharpshooters or trickshooters in the world? Jesus.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032946
Maybe if his plane was capable of demolishing mountains, or if he shot down 1000 aircraft without stopping to refuel/re-arm.

A lot of you are forgetting that sorcery, in Nasuverse, becomes less effective and can lose power the more that people know about it. It only has seemingly extraordinary power when it's a mystery to those who witness it.

Technically, you can accomplish anything that (most) Noble Phantasms do with technology. Excalibur can wipe out mountains. Humans can do that, too. Ea could potentially destroy the Earth at full power. Humans could do that, too. Rider can fly at enormous speeds. Humans can do that, too. The difference is in the time it takes. Avalon and certain others are sort of akin to true magic, things that cannot be replicated by technology and never can be.

Still, objects that can achieve things far outside of their expected scope of ability, like Excalibur wiping out an army with a seeming beam of light, become something beyond the norm, and can become true mysteries.

The age of supreme mysteries is past, though, so we're not going to see that again, and humanity doesn't believe that way anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032959

That doesn't make SENSE. The exact same argument applies even MORE to the low-tech heroes! Any idiot, even a monkey, can swing a sword without any training at all! What matters is the skill of the hero.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032967
I'll try and find a screencap of that section.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032960
>>3032959
Who says people would still remember how a plane works? I doubt many people today know how ancient technologies work. Such a thing can easily become lost to history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032967
That's the skill of the sharpshooter.It doesn't matter what gun he uses. It's not unique.
They could do extreme feats with most ballistic weapons.
There may have been many knights as good as Saber at sword fighting, but only she has Excalibur.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032974
We do actually.
Very, VERY few things are unexplained.
You think we do not understand how Hot-Air balloons work?
Or we cannot rebuild the pyramids using the same means (albeit lots of slaves, stone and time)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032971
That has NOTHING to do with an NP though.
We talk about how NPs are created. Special qualities in itself and associated with a special person, to oversimplify it.
A gun fails at the first part, which makes it harder.

[Anonymous No.]

The Golden Gun can kill servants, discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032976

So, what, the requirement now is that the weapon is special and unique?

So what prevents there from being a special and unique gun?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032988
Not magic. Claim refuted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032967
No, but whenever the legend of said sharpshooters is recounted, how often are their weapons mentioned?

And more importantly, how often are they weapons mentioned by comparison to the likes of Durandal, Caladbolg, Gram, etc?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032989
Black barrel could concievably count as a NP, but Black Barrel is a special case being made from a pseudo-NP. Also most firearms don't possess a sufficient level of "mystery" to become a NP.

[Anonymous !Jones4ZrPA No.]

>>3032988
James Bond can fuck Servants, discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032989
There has apparently never been any, MUCH less constructed in the modern world?
Nothing can stop it, but there are no examples. All guns simply shoot out a bullet as of now and that's it.
Perhaps if we take a 'Lucky Luke Revolver' that never runs out of bullets, now that could be an NP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032994
>And more importantly, how often are they weapons mentioned by comparison to the likes of Durandal, Caladbolg, Gram, etc?

Frankly, I have never heard any of those mentioned before reading about them in F/SN. But when a kickass gunslinger is discussed, his choice of weapon is often mentioned. It's not unique though so you've got that. Is that what you're going to go with? As long as it's unique and has a name of its own, it's a potential noble phantasm?

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3032989
The speciality of Noble Phantasms are things that existed before they became widely known, properties that made them unique enough for heroes to use them and be known by others.

In the case of Berserker and Fake Assassin, a "Noble Phantasm" is the absolute knowledge of weapons to use any weapon beyond the ability of any other person, or a technique which can exceed human ability and let you strike three times at once.

Nobody else can do it, so it becomes iconic for humanity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032988
Saint of Killers can kill servants.
Servants can't kill Saint of Killers.
Discuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032974
Does this make Greek fire a potential Noble Phantasm?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033007
These were parts of the various legends around the world, you not knowing is a different issue.
And no, the problem is that regardless of the weapon of choice, using a simple revolver or a desert eagle does not matter.
There are many identical that do the same exact job, shoot a bullet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033013
We can Make Liquid Fire with the exact same results, we just do not know the specific recipe.

>>3033011
Saint of Killers is a disgrace of comic characters and should always lose by default.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033007
Considering that all Noble Phantasms have names, I'd say that a nameless weapon has absolutely no chance to become one under any circumstances and that if a gunslinger became a Servant, then his NP would likely be something else entirely that symbolizes him better (for Wyatt Earp, it might be his badge or something like that).

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033020

There are many swords that do the exact same thing, cut people up.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3033029
Gilgamesh has lots of nameless phantasms in his gate, but they're all a part of the whole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033031
>many swords that do the exact same thing
Or rather, all swords do the same thing.
Without the addition of magic, they are all the same shit. And anything can be special with the addition of magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033031
However, how many swords can cleave a mountain in two? Or are the basis of the sword in the stone myth and was used to kill a dragon? Or can cleave of the tops of 3 hills in a single swing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033031
Except the ones that became NPs had that LIIITLE extra touch, which is the whole fucking point.
There were not many swords like Durandal handed all over by angels and holding 3 miracles, or many spears like 'Slaughter' that could actually go kill EVERYTHING that breathes on it's own without a wielder.
If you still do not get it, I give up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033037
However all of Gilgamesh's NP's are the "blue print" so to speak of almost all other legendary weapon weapon. They could also have untold Conceptual properties. So it could be via this age and weight of concept that give them their NP status.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3033041
History, purpose, construction, use, and all those little things that you think are worthless come together and create a unique object which, when revered by enough people and used by a hero, qualifies as a Noble Phantasm.

A sword that sprouts fire is perhaps just another magical item.

A sword that burns like an inferno, used by a hero to slay an ice demon before it can start a new ice age, bequeathed by a wizard to the hero as a sign of his destiny...

That's what becomes a Noble Phantasm, for the most part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031014
It's because she forgot to read SICP today.

[Anonymous No.]

Dan Smith with Demon Gun can kill servants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033134
IF I SEE THAT FUCKING SICP ONE MORE TIME

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033151
You'll what? Achieve Satori?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033139
Hell, the whole Smith Syndicate can kill... anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033169
Even itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033151

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033162
U MENA learn a useless toy language?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033175
It's funny because it's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033198
I expected Haskell there. Although toy language could fit as a synonym.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033162

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031448
No misinterpretation. Rin isn't Ms. Perfect, as several examples in the game show. There are love interests she's outright run off through ridiculous means. There's her snake vs mongoose relationship with Issei. Not to mention the 'normal' and relaxed way she treats Shirou--Shirou's just the only person besides Archer that willingly accepts all those aspects of her without fault or want of something in payback. At times, she really IS hell-on-wheels to anyone close enough, particularly if she thinks she has to compete with them.

Anyone not that close only regards her as the perfect idol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033318
She was always Shirou's Dream Girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033318
Which makes it the minority.
The guy made it as she was the snobbish manipulative bitch that treated people like dirt and put them down .Only Shinji is victim of that. For most people, she has a typical, well-mannered but disinterested approach.
She is a bit more honest and shows her character with friends/people she gets close, and has that weird relationship with Issei.
Of course she is not Ms.Perfect (part of her charm is her clumsiness, how she easily gets embarrassed or flustered with things she does not expect, her being angry at trivial rthings etc), but that guy was way off.

[Anonymous No.]

>The Christian god is highly effective against "demons" and such

No. Also, stop talking. It's not the existence of God that is strong against the demons, it's the thamaturgical base in the foundation of religion that is effective against demons and spirits. That, and the knowledge that gives birth to ancient and blessed weaponry, like the Seventh Holy Scripture and Mystic Codes. God's a figurehead in this case, as there really is no 'heaven' or 'hell' in nasuverse--it's just the devotion to a full-fledged-in-all-but-name magic school of thamaturgy, one on the same level as alchemy, eastern magics, and more occult schools.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032845
Guns are not an achievement of what man can do to defy fate and impossible destiny. Guns can't slay dragons and fell Titans. Any idiot with a gun can hold dozens to maybe even platoons at bay, or even wipe them out with enough training.

In nasuterms, guns, ballistics, and shit like conventional weapons aren't interesting enough to make themselves capable of worship.

In b4 black barrel--which is more a Conceptual Weapon than an actual Noble Phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033671
Black Barrel is arguably just a change in form of a NP.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>3033600
Perhaps I should've clarified by stating "as represented by Nasu".

[Anonymous No.]

>>3032971
Dig this. Cu Cuhalainn's Noble Phantasm is Gae Bolg. It's an instant-kill or instant-assassin's attack. The spear hits the heart FIRST and the path to the heart's established second--reverse casualty. That's not the point. The spear isn't the point.

The spear is the representation. In his lifetime, not once did he lose with that spear. Each time it was thrust, the opponent died. No denying that fact. That's the real 'power' of his Noble Phantasm--sure hit kill with his spear. The spear is the crystalized representation of that anecdote of his myth. No matter who he pulls it against, they'd have to have godly luck in order to evade the heart-strike.

So a sharpshooter on these terms would have to have a no-miss rate at MINIMUM. And that's for every shot taken in their lifetime, without fail. 100% kills on a Duke Togo level. They'd have to be celebrated for it, centuries after they were gone. And the kills would have to be something fantastic as well, not just 'lol I killed Hitler/Stalin/some gook president/king/etc".

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033767
It also alway hit when he kicked Gae Bolg at people too. It's a pity we never see him do that as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033688
The Black Barrel's fame is high, yes, but it's not a crystalized ideal (otherwise it'd still be attached to Longinus, unless I'm remembering BB wrong). It's more a physical disruption of nature with its own ideals, a Conceptual Weapon. And a powerful one because it's a nature that's existed for who knows how long.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033784
A greater pity is the lack of WARP SPASMS

>The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat... The hair of his head twisted like the tange of a red thornbush stuck in a gap; if a royal apple tree with all its kingly fruit were shaken above him, scarce an apple would reach the ground but each would be spiked on a bristle of his hair as it stood up on his scalp with rage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033789
I know, however best to cover all bases, before another person brings the point up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033796

[Anonymous No.]

>>3031166

/clap

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033796
Can't make Lancer too good, now can we? Now if it were Berserker Cu Chulainn we might seen both the Riastrad and Gae Bolg in one fight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033802
problem, Anon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033767
Canonically never misses a shot and considered an urban legend because of how ridiculous his kill record is.

's too bad he's fictional, and is therefore disqualified.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033844
>Fictional
>Disqualified
Seems you missed the briefing on becoming an eirei bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033844
He is real in the Nasuverse.
NP: Somehow people do not recognize him.
EVER.As long as he does not draw guns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033817

I'm not quite sure what I read. Seemed too good to be Nasu. But I liked reading about Cool Chulain becoming some kind of lovecraftian horror.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033882
It's from the original legend, moron.\
Apart from a few modifications, most of the Backstory you read in F/SN is the hero's actual legend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033891

Fascinating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033882
From the Ulster Cycle, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

Was Chulainn even coherent enough to use anything other than a sword in that state? Because Gae Bolg was also pretty ceremonial--there were restrictions on its usage in the mythos--it wasn't his everyday weapon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033899
I know. Legends are very interesting and indicate a lot about culture and people's mindset.
More people should look it up/

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033903
Been ages since I've read the Ulster Cycle, so couldn't say. Not like rules don't get twisted in the Nasuverse though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033855
Modern fiction.

You're not going to see Rorschach or Nanoha as Servants either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033930
If one could get enough people to believe in their existence, they would become eirei.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033915
Anyone know any good places to read the Ulster Cycle online? My local library only has stuff on the Tain bo Cualigne.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033943
FUND IT

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033930
Irony--both would come close to qualification. Rorschach will never be known--Ozzy would have a far-better chance if the world knew of his deeds. Hell, Manhattan has a better chance. Though lol Manhattan fighting a Servant--short fight.

Nanoha might have a chance, but just because of the generic definitions of the capabilities of magic in her world/verse, she'd have a better shot by being a Counter Guardian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034000
Need to make a pact with Alaya to become a CG.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033950
Double this for in-depth tales about the Finnian Cycle plz. Too many blubs going on, and the only copy I know that isn't blurbed is--wait fuck it should be in the local library. Better go not be lazy, tomorrow

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034000
The problem with Watchmen characters is that they're from a fictional history that can easily be proven false by simply taking a look at New York City.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034013
That's simple to explain: they are from a different universe within the kaleidoscope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034013
I see a giant mollusk outside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034007
If anyone or anything will make a pact that would save lives, it is most certainly a magic girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034030
Watchmen: confirmed for Nasuverse canon

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3034081

Here comes the one-word monologue Rorschach journals as he travels through the city FSN takes place in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034081
Watchmen is part of the DC Multiverse.
We may have fallen down a Dark Spiral.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034089
Something in this sentence does not make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

Arrived in a seemingly tranquil city. Too tranquil.
There is a strange atmosphere. Met man clad in red who spoke in Jumbled English. Also understood the ugliness of the world. Weird obsession with blades.

Will investigate.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3034116

IT BEGINSSSSS

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034094
Shiki can kill pre-crisis Superman. Discuss?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034125
And it won't last long. Thread's nearing the bump limit.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3034142

ORT versus Galactus.

CAN A TYPE TAKE DOWN A PLANETCRUSHER?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034142
Pre which crisis and what period?
>>3034144
Eater, not Crusher. Also, no.
I'd say Types are about Celestial Level.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>3034160

Fuck yes, power cosmic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034164
Nah, I was counting more of Apex of technology of the previous cycle of the Universe and the Ultimate Nullifier.
Power Cosmic vs Type Planet Mojo is hard to measure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034160
>Pre which crisis and what period?
No idea, bro. Just remember my friend telling me how hax a pre-crisis superman was.

[MolesterJim No.]

>>3034180
USELESS COMIC KNOWLEDGE TIME!
Pre-crisis usually refers before the big first crossover of DC,'Crisis on Infinite Earths' which redefined teh DC universe (reboot if you will).
There are two distinct eras of Pre-Crisis.
Golden Ages, where Superman was born and is his weakest incarnation (lifts cars, jumps over buildings etc).
Afterwards, came the Silver Age were things took a more 'fantastic adventure' approach. Time travel, Universe spanning adventures etc. Of course, Superman gained abilities and powers proportionate to the task.
The result?
Pic included.

[Anonymous No.]

>Crescent moon shaped blades are called moon fangs and when only on one side of the halberd, the proper name is Blue Dragon Halberd. While there are others, only the one used by Lu Bu had become a "Noble Phantasm."

oh shi--

[Anonymous No.]

Sure is /co/ in here

[Anonymous No.]

>>3033424

Maybe I'm more sensitive about this sort of thing but I thought Rin's behavior towards even Shirou was intolerable 80-90% of the time.


Re: Guns - so after all that bullshit, it boils down to there not being a known named magic gun right now. All that talk about overcoming destiny and blabbidy blah de fucking blah is a distraction - it's because there isn't a gun called Bloodshitter that gives AIDS to orphans when it's fired. Okay, I'm down with that. Makes some amount of sense.

BUT how do you explain then completely made-up noble phantasms like Rider's Bellerophon, that have absolutely no base in mythology? Or Archer's Infinite Blade Works for that matter?

Really, there are very very few acceptable Noble Phantasms if you use that criterion - very few named magic weapons or tools from myths. About 1% or less of what there are Big Damn Legendary Heroes. Nasu ran into this problem too and solved it by simply making up noble phantasms that represented the abilities the servants had displayed while alive or ones he wanted them to have. What stops us from doing what he did?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034453
Bellerophon is simply the golden bridle renamed. Why Medusa has it? lolNasu. As for UBW the decription says it's more of a faux-NP I believe doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034453
NONE of Rider's Noble Phantasms have to do with herself as much as the legends that came before or after her time, if they fully-qualify as Noble Phantasms at all. Bellerophon is a proper one, but it has more to do with both the specific Pegasus (oldest one in mythos) that was born after her death, and the young lad (Bellerophon) that rode said horse to take down a monster on the god's request. The Blood Fort and the Self-Sealing Temple are more thamaturgy than genuine Noble Phantasms (her eyes don't qualify, as well, despite them marking her as Medusa).

Archer's UBW is by his own admission not a Noble Phantasm, but it's the ability that marks him as a hero. Shirou did not impossible deeds in his lifetime--he's a Counter Guardian summoned into the Grail War, not a Great Hero. Still, UBW is treated as a NP because it's the one ability that identifies Shirou as Shirou.

And yeah, say what you will, but the Grail War was far from anything heroic. Word of God and all that jazz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3035642
Shirou did one impossible thing during his lifetime.
He accomplished a true miracle by saving a hundred or so people who couldn't be saved, thanks to a contract with the world.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

I want to see Lu Bu as a heroic spirit..

[Anonymous No.]

Wasn't it stated Archers greatest noble phantasm was Rho Aius?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3034453
The important aspect of her NP is:

Fucking Pegasus is summoned (in the original legend, It sprung when her head was cut off, hence her piercing her neck).
Nasu explains it's not just WEAPONS, a specific skill or technique of the servant is an NP too.

Everything you whine about is perfectly clear.

Sure, some facts are not 100% accurate from legends or being used that way from a hero, but we never claimed 100% accuracy, it's obvious. Some parts were modified for the sake of efficiency and storytelling.

And what it boils down to with a gun, is not what it does. Is that it's never used or recognized, even if there was something in the Nasuverse when we read the story.

Your complaints have little base.