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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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3004778 No.3004778 [Reply] [Original]

Ryukishi07 > ZUN

Think about it.

When you hear touhou fans talk about touhou they say they've played the games and they were alright but nobody ever talks about story. Touhou would be nothing without the fans.

When you hear people talk about the When They Cry series fans have read the VNs, watched the animes, and are fans of the original works because the ORIGINAL story is amazing.

Ryukishi07 has had 2 animes made out of his works, both were huge hits, and this was because of his oversight to the production, making it so they had to stick to his original story.

ZUN refuses to allow a touhou anime to be made because he realizes his writing is pure shit in not only the games, but his mangas, and knows that if he was told to oversee the storyboards of producing an anime for touhou, that he would fail and it would be pure shit.

Discuss When They Cry vs. Touhou in regards to their popularity and future.

Yukari and Ran pic related as they're the only good thing about touhou and it's sad to see them wasted by not having them be in Umineko as almighty witches.

>> No.3004785

You can't really compare the two of them.

>> No.3004788

You can't compare Pizza and Ice Cream

>> No.3004789
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3004789

>> No.3004796

>>3004788
Ice cream > pizza

>> No.3004798

Odd. This doesn't seem to be copypasta.

Anyway, this subject is so frivolous I don't really want to bother answering the OP. I'm pretty sure other people will do the honors.

>> No.3004799

>>3004796

Zun is a Pizza?

>> No.3004805

>>3004796
no, i like pizza better and my opinion matters more than your opinion.

>> No.3004806

Well, this is a silly argument. They're very different to begin with.

>> No.3004808

>>3004788
Yeah that about sums it up.

Saging this thread 'cos OP is trying to start fights.

>> No.3004810

>>3004788
That's stupid, yes you can.

Pizza sometimes has cheese, tomato sauce, vegetables, meat, and maybe a soft, fluffly crust, whereas ice cream is a cool, frozen yogurt-like substance that is, smooth, sweet, and comes in a variety of flavors. However, both of them are edible.

>> No.3004814

...This has to be one of the silliest arguments I've ever read.

Touhou is a setting. When They Cry is a story. The two of them are very different.

>> No.3004815

A visual novel has a better story than an STG? Frankly I'm shocked.

It's nice of you to try to stir up a shitstorm between the two main /jp/ bandwagons though.

>> No.3004827

How does ZUN make money off Touhou other than selling the official manga and games?

Are there official licensed Touhou merchandise with people paying him royalties?

At Least I see Ryukishi07 made money off the anime but its weird theres so little doujin works.

>> No.3004830

Touhou fans actually care about the story?

All that I really care about are the characters, games, music, and fanart/doujins.

>> No.3004837

>>3004827
Umineko is far from being as popular as Higurashi in Japan, that's why there isn't as much fanwork.

>> No.3004841

>>3004815
That's impossible anyway.

Ryukishi likes Touhou.
Ryukishi's character(s) are based on Touhou characters.

>> No.3004845

>>3004830
I care about the story because it gives us more chances to see the characters interact.

Which is why I'm always so crushed when he never includes Mima or Yuka in anything (excluding PoFV).

>> No.3004857

>>3004830
>implying you don't care about the story
>reads doujins

>> No.3004879
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3004879

>>3004778
Finally someone managed to grow enough balls to say this.

Post saved for future generations.

>> No.3004889

When they cry
-> a story, about stories.

Touhou
-> a game, about dodgan bullets

HERP DERP NEWS ALERT!
Higurashi has a better developed plot! Who would have thought!

>> No.3004891

I don't really care what is better.
I enjoy both equally.

>> No.3004897

>>3004857
Fanfiction doesn't count as the story of a series.

>> No.3004902

You post a picture of delicious Yakumo butts, and then present the argument that Touhou is inferior. Are you trying to derail your own thread perhaps?

>> No.3004905

>>3004814
Touhou is a setting? I thought it was just pretty patterns with cool music.

>>3004857
Perhaps he only faps to doujins. Ever think of that, Mr. Smartypants?

>> No.3004907
File: 15 KB, 386x330, suspended troll.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3004907

>>3004879
you need big balls to troll 4chan

>> No.3004910

>>3004857
What the hell do doujins have to do with the story? Unless there are some grimdark serious ones that I'm unaware of or something, because mostly everything I've read has just been moe.

>> No.3004916

you are all niggas posting in a troll thread.

>> No.3004920

You're comparing the story of a series of shooting games to a visual novel?

Get out.

>> No.3004926
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3004926

>>3004778

>> No.3004952

>>3004897

But it does when that's the whole point. As I said, setting. If you'll excuse me while I don my fa/tg/uy hat, a campaign setting SHOULDN'T have much in the way of story. It has events that happen, and established characters, and a chronology, but nothing should be highly detailed.

Touhou was built from the beginning *for* the fans, much in the manner of a campaign setting. Notice that every "official" recount is done by unreliable narrators? That's because the idea is leaving it all open so the GMs - er, the fans, can make their own stories with the pieces given.

>> No.3004970

This thread makes me hungry.

>> No.3005000
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3005000

I don't think the op is comparing the products. (Because comparing a VN to a STG would be idiotic). I think the op is simply suggesting that Ryukishi07 is a better indie producer than ZUN.

Ryukishi07 is a better storyteller, artist and businessmen while ZUN is a better composer and programmer. And personally I agree with the op, Ryukishi07 has managed to professionally market his products (without destroying the original work). ZUN on the other hand keeps making excuses. And as the op stated earlier, ZUN's micromanagement of any professional projects is doomed to fail. If his Touhou anime comes out anything like his Touhou manga, then it'll definitely be a monumental failure.

>> No.3005031

>>3005000
>Ryukishi07 is a better storyteller, artist and businessmen while ZUN is a better composer and programmer.

If I thought OP meant that, I'd agree. ZUN is a great composer, and programs really cool games, but he *really* doesn't know or want to market his stuff.

>> No.3005044

Touhou games are getting shittier and shittier, and it seems like ZUN really ran out of ideas with UFO. I can see Ryukishi doing another When they Cry after Chiru before japs get bored of him, and then becoming a scenario writer for comercial VN's.

>> No.3005071

Ryukishi didn't make Higurashi/Umineko alone.
Zun made Touhou alone.

>> No.3005077

>Ryukishi07 is a better storyteller, artist and businessmen
>artist
BAHAHAHAHAHA. They're both horrible, but ZUN has never made anything as hideous as Higurashi. Also, Ange.

>> No.3005081

Rance > Umineko = Touhou

Discuss.

>> No.3005086

>>3005081
Well, it's not true. Which is sad since Rance isn't a doujin game.

>> No.3005105

Troll thread, but since it seems to be the watched one right now, got to ask something seriously.

Why is it that some people get so upset about what other people, most often total strangers like?

>> No.3005118
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3005118

>>3005081

>> No.3005137

>>3005071
Well, Touhou is a short STG. Meaning you can finish most of them in 45 minutes (depending on the difficulty level).

Higurashi alone takes longer to complete than all of the Touhou games combined (excluding Shoot the Bullet and the other spin-off Touhou games).

Though, in exchange for being a smaller project, each Touhou game is much more harder to produce (especially if it's your first time programming one). But after the third time programming one, all you really have to do is copypaste your source-code. ZUN could probably create a STG the size of Perfect Cherry Blossom in a month if he rushed.

>> No.3005147

>>3004952
This is complete bullshit considering it took many games before the Touhou fandom came close to what it is today. ZUN makes the Touhou games because he loves STGs, not so that people can make derivative works based on them.

>> No.3005151

>>3005081
>Umineko = Touhou
What the fuck are you talking about.

>> No.3005156

>>3005105
I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with partially the way people word things.

Rather than say "I like this [game, movie, visual novel, book, etc.]", they say "This is the best thing ever." Rather than say, "I wasn't interested.", they say, "It's absolute garbage, the worst thing ever made."

The latter, in either case, makes their opinion sound more factual than subjective.

>> No.3005159

>>3005151
Both of them is about witches. And both author wears silly hats

>> No.3005171

>>3005156
You're a faggot.

>> No.3005189

>>3005137
>Higurashi alone takes longer to complete than all of the Touhou games combined
Sure, if you're some sort of god that can do them all on the first try. I've easily spent more time on just EoSD than it took me to read Higurashi.
>But after the third time programming one, all you really have to do is copypaste your source-code.
He actually changes most of the system mechanics in every new game. I'd imagine he has to recode a fair bit in every game.
>ZUN could probably create a STG the size of Perfect Cherry Blossom in a month if he rushed.
Maybe in length, but not quality. See StB to see what happens when he tries to crank out a game in a couple months: it has all sorts of bugs and insanely inconsistent difficulty.

>> No.3005200

>>3005171
Thank you. Your skill of perception is extraordinary.

>> No.3005217

>>3005189
>See StB to see what happens when he tries to crank out a game in a couple months: it has all sorts of bugs and insanely inconsistent difficulty.

...but StB is among the most fun Touhou games and has some really awesome spellcards...

You got a point on the bugs, though.

>> No.3005224

>>3005189
>recode a fair bit in every game.
Incorrect, the changes he makes between games are tiny, I'm sure he spends a 100x the time actually designing the system than implementing it.

>> No.3005231

>>3005156

Ah. So essentially, a slightly tamer variation on the good old "my god pwnz ur god lol".

>> No.3005242
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3005242

>>3004952
Touhou's plot is just as shitty (if not more shitty) than most STGs. Sorry but, there was no master scheme during the creation of Touhou. ZUN has been making the same STGs since the PC-9801 days. I wonder why none of his projects caught on until Perfect Cherry Blossom. I guess... if first you don't succeed - keep rehashing the same products (with little empathy for the consumer) until they are successful.

Ryukishi07 is just getting started and he's already a much more successful businessman than ZUN. But before labeling ZUN a failed businessman, let's see his rendition of an official Touhou anime. That should give us a few laughs or two.

>> No.3005246

>>3005189
It's the same engine since MoF/StB. Not much changed here.

>StB
>insanely inconsistent difficulty.
...

>> No.3005257

>>3005242
>I wonder why none of his projects caught on until Perfect Cherry Blossom.
Because they were either on the PC-98 (Hey guys, its' the 80s all over again) or EoSD (Sure is unpolished around here). EoSD is lackluster because most of the development time was put into writing the engine.

>> No.3005310

>>3005242
>But before labeling ZUN a failed businessman, let's see him owning his own bar.
fixed

>> No.3005321

>When They Cry

>> No.3005333

>>3005242
The first Higurashi game was released 7 years ago. That's not "just getting started" by any means.

And I wouldn't call ZUN a failed businessman as much as I would say he isn't terribly interested in milking the Touhou franchise for every penny he can.

>> No.3005337

>>3005310

ZUN can't own a bar. He'd drink all the merchandise.

>> No.3005352

Higurashi is a VN, Touhou games are shoot em ups with loads of bullets.
In which one the story matters more?

>> No.3005361

>>3005333

Pretty much. He himself said he doesn't want to think of Touhou as anything more than a hobby, and doesn't really want to live off it or throw it into the more "official" and "mainstream" river. As for his reasons, no real idea.

>> No.3005407

>>3005361
Just like his failed manga, ZUN realizes his anime would fail too. ZUN fails at storyboards.

Also, hello Touhoufags.

>> No.3005533

>>3005000
RYUKISHI AND ZUN SHOULD TEAM UP!

>> No.3005554

This thread only has replies because OP's pic is fucking hot as hell

>> No.3005570

Sup robotech guy.

>> No.3005581

>>3005554
I'm not into MILFs and I responded.

>> No.3005594

>throw it into the more "official" and "mainstream" river

too late.

>> No.3005602

I like both

:Idiot:

>> No.3005605

APPLES AND ORANGES

>> No.3005629

Ryukishi07's stuff doesn't bend as well to retardedly funny fanfic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIaRLf21CF8&feature=channel_page

>> No.3005645

I play Dodonpachi for the story.

>> No.3005650

>>3005645
It has a decent story.

>> No.3005659
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3005659

>this thread

>> No.3005672

>>3005650
I also play Dangun Feveron for the story.

>> No.3005684

>>3004778
Look at this baka, just look at her.

>> No.3005691

>Wall of text
tldr

in other news D.A.T.A.S.S.

>> No.3005702

Touhou 10: good.

Umineko: not so good.

Sorry bros, but Japanese ZUN wins this round. He is worshipped as a god in Japan anyways. And Ryukishi07's power level is lower than ZUN in every way.

>> No.3005740

>>3005702
Shut up.

>> No.3005742

Uminekos scoring system is crap.

>> No.3005751

>>3005740
I don't think he even tries any more.

>> No.3006009

>>3005570
I'm [>>3004879] [>>3005000] [>>3005137] [>>3005242], but not the op. The op is obviously one of my followers.

>> No.3006255

>>3005702
Your troll levels are weak.

>> No.3006284
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3006284

Touhou is a shitty series for shitty people, I've known this for a while.

I'm a fan of it, after all. Q.E.D. Come back when you've actually got something worthy of my Attention.

Umineko may be shit of a different type, but at least there's actually an attempt at a story rather than HERE ARE SOME VAGUELY HISTORICAL FAIRYTALE CREATURES FROM JAPAN WITH FRILLS AND BOWS. SHOOT LAZER AT THEM.

I'd say this thread is dildos, but I don't want to sound like a butthurt Touhou Secondaryfan.

>> No.3006295

>>3006284
>but I don't want to sound like a butthurt Touhou Secondaryfan

Too late

>> No.3006304
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3006304

>>3006284
fascinating

>> No.3006309

>>3006284
Butthurt Touhou secondaryfan detected.

>> No.3006314
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3006314

>>3006309
>>3006295

I knew if I said something, people might think I'm defending Seakittens or Touhou.

I haven't read enough of Seacats to come to a conclusive opinion of it, and Touhou as we all know is not exactly the touchstone of excellence. Most popular things aren't. Look at Naruto, for example.

I only think this thread is dildos because of the high levels of butthurt from both parties.

>> No.3006319

>>3004778
When They Cry and Touhou both have horrible plots.

The main difference here is, one's a moderately entertaining STG that doesn't need a story, and the other is VN that absolutely needs a good story to be considered good. Which it sadly lacks.

tl;dr: You could have at least used a GOOD VN to make this troll thread. It would have been more effective.

>> No.3006329

>>3006319
But Touhou isn't entertaining at all...

>> No.3006332

>>3006314
>Comparing Touhou to Naruto
I love you, man.

>> No.3006338
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3006338

>>3006319

>implying the VNs need good stories to be popular

>> No.3006339

>>3006314
You lost all credibility when you wrote

>Come back when you've actually got something worthy of my Attention

Add to it the tripcode and you DO sound like a wagon jumping secondaryfan.

>> No.3006363

>>3006338
No, he said
>to be good

There was no implying anywhere. Back to /b/ and/or /v/ with you.

>> No.3006393

>>3006329
People don't tend to find things that they suck at entertaining.

>> No.3006398

>>3006319
>You could have at least used a GOOD VN to make this troll thread. It would have been more effective.
87 posts and 11 images omitted, I'd say this was already an effective troll thread. Their success depends more on the amount of attention they receive, not only people who actually feel angered (which isn't necessarily the goal of trolls afterall).

>> No.3006400

>>3006393

This is actual Touhou fan butthurt.

It is possible to like things that suck and even greatly enjoy them. The trick is coming to grips with that.

>> No.3006453

I know you are online, Janitor.

>> No.3006519

>>3006400
As opposed to your brand of secondary Touhou fan butthurt?

>> No.3006528

Eh, Umineko is for reading, Touhou is for playing.

>> No.3006537

I like how the third reply pointed out that it was a troll post but /jp/ fell for it anyway.

>> No.3006539

COME TO

THE ORIGINAL BOARD

WWW.ANYNTALK.COM (ANYN = ANON)

>> No.3006550

I feel that the characters of Touhou and Umineko are equally developed.

>> No.3006564

COME TO

THE ORIGINAL BOARD

WWW.ANYNTALK.COM (ANYN = ANON)

>> No.3006567

>>3006550
ZUN!bar, I want to see a replay of you playing MoF's Extra Stage. It will be orgasmic.

>> No.3006580

>>3006550

Yeah, but no one cares what you think.

>> No.3006583

>>3006567

Hey, that sounds like a fun idea.

I gotta finish my video reviews of MOON. and Sengoku Rance first.

>> No.3006589

>>3006567
I doubt he can even 1cc normal mode.

>> No.3006602

>>3006583
>I gotta finish my video reviews of MOON
What? Explain.

>> No.3006609

>>3006537
>I like how the third reply pointed out that it was a troll post but /jp/ fell for it anyway.
"Fell for it" implies we raged and bickered. I just see a normal discussion. Happens with every obvious troll thread on /jp/.

>> No.3006616
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3006616

look at that fucking hat

a guy who wears a hat like that clearly isn't afraid of anything

he can probably dodge bullets in real life

>> No.3006621

>>3006583
What are you using to record those? I want to do some video reviews of eroge too.

>> No.3006627

>>3006609

>"Fell for it" implies we raged and bickered.

No, you took the bait and replied.

YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO REPLY TO A TROLL.

That is why I expected instant failure when I said something. When you reply, you are publicly acknowledging that you are butthurt enough to respond.

If you truly don't care, you won't waste your energy clicking 'reply' and typing up a 500-word dissembling on how NOT butthurt you are and how OP is a fag.

He got 100+ posts from his shitty troll thread. Everyone has been suitably trolled. Disguising it as 'discussion' is a futile attempt at denial.

Let it go.

>> No.3006634

>>3004778
>Ryukishi07>ZUN

Finally someone with brain in /jp/

>> No.3006684

ryukishi08 > ryukishi07

ohh opps was i trolled?

>> No.3006716

>>3006627
There are no winners or losers on 4chan. If they respond, all they lose is their time, and if he gets lots of responses, all he gets is a feeling of false superiority or satisfaction, which doesn't affect us at all. Quit pretending like there's anything deeper. If a troll creates a thread that ends up being interesting or generating decent discussion, who cares if he was trolling. Almost no one seriously falls for silly trolls like this, and I doubt he was even seriously trying to troll in the first place, from how obvious it is.

>> No.3006723

On a related note: anyone know where the fuck I can get Umineko?

suggestions?

>> No.3006727

>>3006723
tokyotoshokan

>> No.3006749

>>3005650
>>3005645
Getting to the 2nd loop, and beforehand Hibachi tells you you weren't blasting enemy alien combatants, you were killing your own guys!

Mind=blown

Nobody plays shmups for the storylines, but if you have to have story in your videogames, thats what anime-wankfest JRPG's are for. Not for VN's however, which are more comparable to books than anything.

>> No.3006754

COME TO

THE ORIGINAL BOARD

WWW.ANYNTALK.COM (ANYN = ANON)

>> No.3006773
File: 142 KB, 997x821, Battler and Beato 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3006773

>touhou

>> No.3006775

>There are no winners or losers on 4chan.

I guess you're not familiar with the terms 'Win' and 'Fail', then.

It is perfectly possible to lose on 4chan. One way to lose is to make a tripcode. Another is to reply to dumbass trolls like OP and cause them to win. If a troll garners no replies, he loses and everyone wins.

Just think how butthurt OP would have been if no one replied to his lovely troll thread.

>> No.3006804

>>3006727


All they have is Ep 1

what's /jp/'s IRC info?

maybe I can go get it off a bot there

>> No.3006806

>>3006804
http://tokyotosho.info/search.php?terms=umineko&type=5

durrhurrhurr

>> No.3006818

>>3006806


yea,, Im defiantly going to have fun downloading a fucking patch for the game.

That's not the game anon.

>> No.3006821

>>3006775
He would post it again at a later hour.

This is /jp/, and even though I dislike how people always respond to troll and daily threads, it seems people don't have the willpower to resist responding. That or the OP does enough same person replies until he successfully ropes in other people.

>> No.3006823

>>3006818


Although, thanks anyways, I needed to find the patch either way

>> No.3006838

>>3006821

> That or the OP does enough same person replies until he successfully ropes in other people.

Snowball effect. Give a troll thread enough momentum and people will reply even if it's to talk about OT stuff.

>> No.3006840

>>3006818
Yes, the PATCH is 1.3 GB large. You're a genius.

>> No.3006845

>>3006840


Oh wat, I didn't notice THAT one,

Well shit, you win this round anon.......

>> No.3006852

Why does /jp/ love trolling one another? Let's all email Navel and Mangagamer about Gamepatch and have some REAL fun instead.

>> No.3006851 [DELETED] 

COME TO

THE ORIGINAL BOARD

WWW.ANYNTALK.COM (ANYN = ANON)

>> No.3006864

>>3006852

>What do you like about /jp/?

Mmm...I love trolls.

>> No.3006874

>>3006852
Because we have nothing much else to talk about.
Thus we indulge ourselves in metathread and troll topic to kill time

>> No.3006895

... Touhou and WTC are completely different.

>> No.3006915
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3006915

Kill 'em all! Prime Minister!

>> No.3007004
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3007004

>Touhoufag logic.

Saying anything negative towards ZUN is trolling. Even comparing ZUN (an indie developer) to Ryukishi07 (another indie developer) is trolling. Congrats /jp/, I never thought I'd live to see the day when /v/irgins make more sense than us /jp/ers. With this type of fanboy logic I guess comparing Shigeru Miyamoto to Hideo Kojima would be considered trolling.

>> No.3007812

>>3006393
>People don't tend to find things that they suck at entertaining.

Wrong. I suck at both STGs and strategy games, but I play them a lot. The games are just fun, even if I'm bad at them.

And yes, Touhou is a fun STG. Not cream of the crop, but unmistakably fun.

>> No.3007812,1 [INTERNAL] 

>>3006852
I wonder if this guy has found the ghost board yet.

>> No.3007812,2 [INTERNAL] 

>>3005077
>Also, Ange.

What is /jp/'s problem with Ange? I thought she looked cute.

>> No.3007812,3 [INTERNAL] 

>>3007812,2
She's fat and ugly.

>> No.3007812,4 [INTERNAL] 

>>3007812,1
So you weren't the one who started the retarded Gamepatch drama?

>> No.3007812,5 [INTERNAL] 

>>3007812,4
I posted the thread with the original e-mail I got from mangagamer.

I did not take part in any /b/-style "epic raid".

>> No.3007812,6 [INTERNAL] 

>>3007812,5
Use a tripcode.

>> No.3007812,7 [INTERNAL] 

>>3007812,6
Fine.

>>
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