/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Okay, I finally did it and compiled my "Sumadera family did it" theory into a single document. It's long as shit, reads like an essay, but fuck it, it's my attempt to explain all the shit that's gone on in Umineko with the knowledge available to us. If you want the abridged version, here it is: Kyrie and Gohda did it with help from the outside. But here we go...

This theory assumes that Kyrie is a lying whore when it comes to her supposed 'hatred' of her family. Basically, she's been trained to do one thing: have a child with an Ushiromiya, who would go on to become the legitimate heir of the fortune. Then the Sumadera family would assassinate all other Ushiromiyas, then absorb the heir into the Sumadera family. How this would work out? Fuck if I know, that's not the point.

The point is that all of this did in fact work out. Kyrie seduced Rudolf and had Battler at the same time Asumu had Battler as well. Well, this didn't work out quite nicely, so a few backroom deals were done at the hospital, Asumu's baby was switched with Kyrie's baby, and Asumu's original baby was killed and made to look like it died naturally. Or maybe it really did die naturally. Who knows. In the end, Kyrie's baby is given to Asumu and she raises him to be the Battler that we all know.

Fast forward to 6 years prior to the events at Rokkenjima. Asumu dies, Rudolf marries Kyrie, everyone's quite happy (especially the Sumaderas), with the exception of Battler. He becomes so angry at his father's rapid remarriage that he forfeits his right to the fortune by leaving the family. This obviously causes some serious shit with the Sumaderas. Their sole link to the family just decided to run off and destroy all of their intricate plans to get rich. This pisses them off to high hell.

[Anonymous No.]

New plan: Kyrie gets knocked up with Ange. Plan temporarily fixed. Fast forward to 1986. Events are even better this time. All the remaining Ushiromiya family members are on the island with the exception of little Ange, who they deliberately poisoned lightly in order to give a reason to spare her from what was to come. After all, she is the Sumadera's sole link to the fortune.

Now, this is the part where I kind of stretch my theory a bit. Assume Gohda is a mole planted by the Sumadera family to scout out Rokkenjima and basically relay info to them about how to best clear out the island. In return, he will be rewarded hansomely. He forges a few reccomendation papers and is hired as a chef. He gets access to the mansion with the Master Key and learns everything that he needs to know: location of hidden areas and utilities, entrances and exits, etc. Most importantly, he leaks information about the Epitaph. Why is this so important? It gives the Sumadera family the perfect cover: conduct the murders in accordance with the epitaph. When the authorities show up, they read the epitaph, examine the bodies, call it a crazed cult ritual gone bad, case closed. Of course, they need to top it off with a few locked room mysteries to really make it seem like some sort of murder suicide shit. Nobody would suspect them. Of course, they would evacuate Kyrie secretly off the island, have her go into hiding and care for her daughter, the sole inheritor of the vast Ushiromiya family fortune.
Gohda also uses his servant status to gain one very important item: Kinzo's ring, which he uses to forge the letters. How did he get it? Fuck if I know. He stole it somewhere, most likely.

[FUCK FLOOD DETECTION No.]

Of course, there are feuds within the Sumadera family. Notably between Kyrie and Asumu. Asumu is jealous of Kyrie, because she got all the attention and was the one chosen for such a prestigious task. She would be rewarded immensely and Asumu would get stuck doing grunt work. Well, she didn't take too kindly to her sister's accomplishments. She personally handpicked the men who would commit the murders on Rokkenjima and gave them a special task: make sure Kyrie does not escape. Kill her in accordance with the ritual. Of course, Asumu would simply blame the grunts on their failure to protect Kyrie, and would have them axed. It seemed like the perfect plan.

I should note, given the new knowledge we have from the spoiler screenshots of Episode 5, assume that the "shipwreck survivor" is one of the Sumadera agents. In fact, this is vital to the rest of the plan, which goes as follows.
Kyrie, Gohda, and the Shipwreck survivor commit the first twilight together. Gohda uses his knowledge of the mansion to access the phone line connection to the mainland and cuts it, thereby cutting the island off from the rest of the world. This is the signal for the main party to show up, a team of four other Sumadera Agents. At any point in time, Kyrie is informed that her death has been personally ordered and is killed. Gohda is informed that his contract has been terminated and is also killed for being a greedy fuck. Rest of the murders go as planned, a couple of bodies are taken, the 5 remaining Sumadera Agents head back to HQ where they dump the bodies somewhere and call it a day.

[FUCK FLOOD DETECTION No.]

Alright, now we get to the murders. Let's start with Episode 1. The first twilight? Gohda poisons a few cups of tea and hands them out to Rudolf, Krauss, and Rosa. They drink it and pass out, with the exception of Krauss, who merely passes out. Kyrie, Gohda, and the Shipwreck Survivor carry the bodies, only to find that Krauss isn't all that dead. He tries to fight, which leads to some blood being spilled in the dining room when someone pulls a knife out on him and wounds him. Krauss, quickly realizing that shit is going down, runs to Natsuhi's room in order to tell her to get the children and get out of here. Problem is that Natsuhi locked her door and Krauss doesn't have her key. He tries to pound and claw at the door with his bloodied hands in order to try to wake her up, but Natsuhi took medicine for her headache, which made her extremely tired and unable to be woken up. The culprits catch up to him and knock him out. They carry the three bodies to the shed and claw out their faces to really kill them.
Gohda cuts the phone lines and this summons the team. The team arrives, tells Gohda and Kyrie that they're fucked, kill them both, and claw their faces out too. 5 bodies, then and there. Now I'm not going to go into the intricacies of the Shannon = Kanon theory, but let's just say that Shannon was already dead and her body was easily found, so they used her as the sixth body. I could try to go into this more, but I'm just going to keep that part simple. Kanon's crossdressing as Shannon for this episode.

[Anonymous No.]

Alright, bodies are found, people freak out, yadda yadda yadda. Anyways, in the meantime, one of the agents seeks out the target for the second twilight: Eva and Hideyoshi. He shadows them and finds out what room they're in. He sneaks in, hides, and waits. Eva and Hideyoshi show up in their room, they lock themselves up, Hideyoshi goes to take a shower, and cue Psycho music. Two dead. The agent then covers his ass by hiding somewhere. The lock is broken, the two are found dead, people freak out, then they leave. The murder then leaves as well.
The other murders are self explanatory. Someone hid in the boiler room, then fled when his cover was blown, the servants and Nanjo got killed, and Natsuhi was shot. Kids get killed, game over, Sumaderas win.

[Anonymous No.]

But it's an endless recursion of time, so let's go to Episode 2. There's not much I can say, seeing as this is probably the hardest episode. The chapel incident is something completely strange. I want to go into it, but it's fucking nuts for now and isn't really that related to my theory anyways. Kyrie gets offed, that's all you need to know.
Jessica and Kanon. Jessica never makes it to her room. She's stabbed in the back and her corpse is disposed of in her room. Her room is locked from the outside, Kanon is "dead" as he stops existing at this point, and shit happens. The fake Kanon incident is crazy shit too. Most I can explain is that someone was hiding in the servant's quarters, offed Nanjo and Kumasawa, and the rest of the servants freaked out and left. Or something. I honestly don't know, this is probably the hardest episode to explain. George, Shannon, and Gohda's deaths are easily explained though. Gohda let in the agents, who offed the two, then killed Gohda. They spike the drinks with some sort of hallucinogen, which gets Battler seriously tripping. Then they kill Genji, Battler, Rosa, and Maria. Let's move on to an easier episode to explain.

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 3, my favorite. Much easier than the 2nd Episode. The fact that everyone that was killed with a gunshot-like wound should have been a major flag. Ryuukishi said it himself that this was supposed to be considerably easier than Episode 2 because of the complaints. But I digress.
1st twilight? Kanon's body in the chapel isn't there. Let's say that Kyrie found his "corpse" and somehow convinced everyone else that it was there without any of them going to look. Simple. Two links in the Closed Room Circuit are broken. Gohda's contract is terminated at the first twilight again.
2nd twilight? Easy shit. Rosa and Maria are ambushed by the agents. Rosa is knocked onto the fence and killed, Maria is choked to death.
Now we get to the pièce de résistance of my crazy ass theory. Let's remember Kyrie convincing Rudolf and Hideyoshi to go to the mansion. Better yet, let me use a bit of red: "Kyrie was thinking that food was unnecessary " "she claimed that they should not leave the guesthouse" "[And yet, she herself] suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food" "the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down" "Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=not going to the mansion'"

[Anonymous No.]

What does this mean? Kyrie knew in advance that there were agents in the mansion, and purposefully led Rudolf and Hideyoshi into a trap to get killed. Of course, her plan backfired and she was killed as well.
And lastly, Nanjo's murder. Not so hard when we have Sumadera agents everywhere. The explanation? An agent showed up in front of Nanjo, raised a gun, aimed, and fired. Simple as that.
Of course, it wasn't so simple after all. Eva goes into crazy mode, kills Battler, and evades the agents. She managed to hide until authorities found her, and the Sumadera's plan got seriously fucked up. 12 years later, though, they finish what they started.

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 4? Easy and hard at the same time. Kanon's body is missing, so he doesn't exist in this episode. He's dead. As for the rest of the murders? Simple. The agents drop the epitaph bullshit and change their plans to "shoot everything that moves." The six in the first twilight were shot. George was shot. Jessica was shot (Kyrie faked her voice over the phone call with Battler in order to fuck with him and have him drop his hat stand spear). Rudolf was shot. Shannon was shot. Nanjo was shot. Gohda and Kumasawa were shot and hanged. Maria was poisoned. Kyrie calls Battler to fuck with his head some more and is then shot. And Battler? Poisoned by the food. Game, set, match.

This theory obeys the rule laid out by Beatrice stating that "no more than 17 humans exist on this island." Seeing as Kanon = Shannon, there are 16 characters that we know about. Shipwreck survivor is #17. And the agents who arrive? They come after the first twilight. The rules of the game stay the same: AT ANY ONE POINT IN THE GAME, THERE ARE NO MORE THAN 17 HUMANS ON THIS ISLAND. Beatrice has never stated that the number of humans does not fluxuate nor has she stated that it is impossible for people to arrive or leave the island once the game begins.

[Anonymous No.]

I'll read this later when I'm not tired as shit.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh, and I should probably mention who Game Piece Beatrice was. She was the Sumadera agent who arrived on the shipwreck. She was taken in for care, snuck out, gave the letter to Maria, then her role changes in whatever game we're talking about. She tries to get Battler in Episode 4 to admit his sin, which is leaving the Ushiromiya family and fucking up the Sumadera's plans. Of course, he doesn't know, she gets tired and leaves to poison his food.

Now there is a bit of metathinking in this theory, but that's to be expected. Gohda is the prime culprit for the Sumadera mole because Ange never meets with his family in 1998. And the reason why I blame the Sumadera family, apart from the reasons listed above, is because they're introduced in the end. Ryuukishi held off on introducing them until the final Question arc. And the question arcs have all the information we need to solve the murders. I reasoned that it's a bit like Phoenix Wright games: the culprit is almost always the last person to be introduced. Yes it's cheap and baseless, but there has to be a reason for why they're in the story and why they care so much about killing Ange: to get all her cash.

Well, there's my comprehensive "Sumaderas did it" theory. Go ahead and test it using the list of the red text at http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Text.. There are of course a couple of holes in this theory (quite a lot, actually, seeing as it covers the entire fucking game), but then again, there were some holes in the "Kinzo is dead" theory until we had it proved for us.

And jesus fuck this is long and I just realized it. I have no life.

[Anonymous No.]

what the fuck man

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001801
I dunno.

Seems like kind of a dick move to me. Sure, it might work in some cases, but It's almost cheating on Ryuukishi's end. It's not a mystery, it's "LOL I KNOW SOMETHING U DON'T".

Here's the thing though: the most impressive murders were probably the ones in the first twilight of every game. So it's basically overkill to introduce SIX WHOLE PEOPLE to perform the murders that are much more akin to just picking off stragglers.

We don't even know the details about the shipwrecked survivor which you base so much of your theory on: imagine if someone told you that episode 4 consisted of George magically learning magic karate and beating demons down with it. It's true, but it makes the whole anti-fantasy viewpoint seem silly. Maybe the shipwrecked survivor is given similar treatment.

[Anonymous No.]

>Asumu had Battler as well

Stopped reading there. Asumu is not Battler's birth mother.

[Anonymous No.]

Good fucking lord, I am not reading that.

Did it mention Juuza anywhere?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001893
Not the Battler that we know in the game. Asumu had a child that she named Battler. Only her child was switched with Kyrie's so that the Sumadera family could show up when he becomes the heir to the fortune and say "Hey, guess what, we found out that there was a bit of a problem at the hospital when you were born..."

>>3001880
You've got somewhat of a point. The thing is that I'm still falling back on the Shannon = Kanon theory, which opens up room for one more person. I had this theory already before the screenshots of episode 5 came out. Labeling the shipwreck survivor as the Sumadera agent is just a way that I can cover my ass with information that's been given to us that supports my claim.

>>3001907
No, sorry.

[Anonymous No.]

>Sumadera agents everywhere.

We have more than 18 people on the island?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001893
Should have read a few words further.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001915
See
>>3001795

[Anonymous No.]

>Of course, there are feuds within the Sumadera family. Notably between Kyrie and Asumu.
Since when is Asumu a Sumadera?

[Anonymous No.]

Occam's Razor

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001893

Seems like you didn't read that line carefully, it said "as well", which means there are two possible babies that could have the name Battler, with one of them killed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001922
Oh shitfuck, scratch every mention of Asumu in that paragraph with Kasumi.

Sorry, my mind got fucked up.

[Anonymous No.]

>She personally handpicked the men who would commit the murders on Rokkenjima and gave them a special task: make sure Kyrie does not escape.
Asumu is DEAD. She died before Rudolf remarried Kyrie. How can she plan revenge for something she doesn't even know about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001929
Yeah, well the simplest answer is "Witches did it"

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001922

He probably meant Kasumi

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001948
see
>>3001943
Yes, I understand I made a huge fucking typo. Please disregard every mention of Asumu's name in that paragraph and replace it with Kasumi's. I am a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001948
Was Asumu really ever confirmed to be dead? Ryukishi07 could just pull what he did with Satoshi, wait until EP5 to introduce a character that's been known since EP1.

[Anonymous No.]

I like how you make the blood on Natuhi's door look like a coincidence, but since there was blood all over it and none to be found anywhere in the halls, it's much more likely it was merely for show.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001965
The novel makes it clear that that was merely red paint meant to look like blood. If it really was blood, where do you think they got all of it?

[Anonymous No.]

So if Kyrie is really the accomplice. Why doesn't she confesses everything to Battler in ep4 when she gonna get offed?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001994
I mean if I am really Battler mom, I would like my son to know the truth before I die.

[Anonymous No.]

The closed rooms are not something that can be done by outsiders. The whole point of the closed rooms was to make it look impossible for anyone, getting people into a mental block that would keep them from realizing who could have done it and who must be lying. The simplest way to break every one of them is to say it was the person who supposedly first opened it (occam's razor). Since there are some incidents in which tricks are completely ruled out by the red, this means someone on the inside MUST have done it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001982
I don't know, the six people whose faces they smashed up, maybe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001994
1. She didn't know that she was going to get killed. Until the moment that the agents shot her, she was certain that everything was going according to her plans.
2. She hated Battler for fucking up the first time six years ago. Why would she confess to everything? Because she's about to win? Cliché villain move.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3002021
And manage not to get blood anywhere else? Not to mention the amount of blood used later on the door of Eva's and Hideyoshi's room. The culprit would have to put that much blood on ice or it'd congeal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001915
> This theory obeys the rule laid out by Beatrice stating that "no more than 17 humans exist on this island." Seeing as Kanon = Shannon, there are 16 characters that we know about. Shipwreck survivor is #17. And the agents who arrive? They come after the first twilight. The rules of the game stay the same: AT ANY ONE POINT IN THE GAME, THERE ARE NO MORE THAN 17 HUMANS ON THIS ISLAND. Beatrice has never stated that the number of humans does not fluxuate nor has she stated that it is impossible for people to arrive or leave the island once the game begins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001955
No, that would be "It was the will of God."

You're misunderstanding the meaning of "simplest." It's not what can be said in the least amount of words, but what can be fully explained in the least amount of words. Have fun explaining all the intricacies of magic. I'll be listing culprits and human methods that don't require any further explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3001965
Another overcomplicated theory: the wound was on his face. He covered his face with his hands, thereby stopping the blood from splattering on the floor in his mad dash up.

>>3002012
Well, there are some locked rooms that simply can't be explained by saying "the first person who saw it did it." I admit that my idea of someone hiding in Eva & Hideyoshi's room is a bit of a stretch (not like that's anything new), but hey, if it wasn't denied in red, it's a potential theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>Seeing as Kanon = Shannon

This only works if this is right, which it isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3002033
A bucket of blood in the fridge is no different than a bucket of paint in the shed. Only the person who put it there, most likely a servant, would ever think of opening it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3002063
learn2biology

I said ice. You'd have to put a bucket of blood in the freezer at the very least, and then you'd also have to put it into a self-contained package as well or else the top would just freeze over/congeal anyway, so an open bucket also wouldn't do it even if you had a freezer large enough to house it. Now a bucket of paint, you can hide anywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>3002044
Well, my specialty is overcomplicated theories. Sue me.
I've got the killers, the motive, and the methods. Sound theory in my book.

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

It IS sound.

[Anonymous No.]

This theory is as valid as
''jessica did it with her classmates because she was raped by kinzo when she was young and wanted everyone to die.
In the end she kills herself''

or

''Nanjo and genji are the culprits and they killed everyone to avenge kinzo''

You could guess one thing or two with a theory like that, but its so messed up and full of holes (only 17 people on the island, why the culprit is connected with maria, how kinzo died, etc) that its not valid.

[Anonymous No.]

OP you're fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

About 1st episode, 1st twilight,


How come Gohda and Kyrie just gathered 4 bodies? It's not like that they knew that they are Doomed or anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

OP here, sorry guys I was on crack cocaine(fuck yeah) when I wrote all that. I would delete the thread but I'm not at home right now so the password changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>If you want the abridged version, here it is: Kyrie and Gohda did it

I don't know if I should continue reading...

[Anonymous No.]

>>3004520
>>3004546
lol ok

>>3004529
Four were easily available. There were four people + Kyrie discussing shit in the living room. Gohda comes in with spiked refreshments, four bodies then and there.

>>3004498
Kinzo's death isn't exactly related to this theory. Suffice to say, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was natural causes.
Maria's connection to the culprit is purely by chance. She happened to be at the flower field, she believed in Beatrice, perfect messenger to get the others into a state of shock.
And I'm not sure where you're getting at with that "17 people on the island being a hole". Or why you immediately dismiss the entire theory so quickly.