/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

ITT, your thoughts and theories on who committed the murders and how he/she/they carried them out.

Umineko Episode 1 only.

[Anonymous No.]

The 7 stakes of purgatory, using their body
Beatrice, using magic

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943856
Go to anime suki, they have threads for this and it won't be spoiled for you.

[Anonymous No.]

Look, another Umineko thread.

[Anonymous No.]

Kinzo faked his own death and then killed everyone with Maria.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Virgilia turns out to be on Beatrice's side all along.

[Anonymous No.]

I would think that:

Natushi mudered the first six via. poisoned tea that she brought, and she murdered the rest with the help of either Krauss, who faked his own death, or Kinzo (and Krauss was accidentally poisoned). Kinzo would make more sense due to the LOLRUNES

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943919
Have you read episode 4? That scenario is impossible.

[Anonymous No.]

Natsuhi

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943920
I have not, but from what I've gathered from #1, it would make the most sense by far. I can think of a less likely senario where Eva and Hideyoshi are responsible for the first six, and then Natushi (horray for revenge) and Kinzo or Kumasawa(?) are responsible for the rest, but it doesn't make as much sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943934
Do yourself a favor, leave and don't return until you've finished episode 4. Or else you will be spoiled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943934
But dude, Beato stated in red that Kinzo was dead since the beginning. There's no Kinzo piece in all the game boards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943947
Yet everyone recognizes someone as Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

Now, I think this is the key to the episode 1.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2943954
There's also no more than 17 people on the island.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943954
When?

You never see Kinzo on the game board. Except during the dining room scene in ep4 which is so fucked up who would believe that's what happened anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943964
You have to believe it thanks to the red text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943956
Yes yes that's fascinating.

Could you stop trying to solve it with only Ep.1 if you take no other episodes into account you could say it's pretty much anyone as no one has alibis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943970
It's a corpse. /thread

[Anonymous No.]

Maria becomes a witch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943964
Battler meets him and Nanjo claims to play chess with him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943964
I personally believed a 'Kinzo' (the person who people now acknowledge as Kinzo) walked in with the Winchester proclaimed that the name Kinzo is now GOLDSMITH then went BAM blown off Natsuhi's head but guess what? All the food they had that evening was full of datura metel so what the hell they saw was actually something completely different and instead of a sawed off Winchester a magical all-star team appeared.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943980
I just read your post three times, and I don't get what you mean.

How is that related to Rudolf telling his wife and son he'll be killed?

[Anonymous No.]

Who cares. By the time it's revealed you know it's going to be something gay just like how it was Takano all along. I was so fucking disappointed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944015
The red text in EP4 said they recognized 'Kinzo'. It doesn't specify wether he was alive or dead.
For all we know, the culprit(s) could have just thrown Kinzos corpse into the room and then proceeded to shoot at random.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944056
You're a moron if you didn't highly suspect Takano by then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944059
Did it even say that? I thought all Beatrice said was "no one would mistake Kinzo by sight".

They could have just heard someone speaking from behind the door.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944100

That's sand you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944076
What? Don't say that crap. Admit it, you had no clue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944184
Umineko is sand

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944204

Different guy here.

I thought something was funny about Takano from the start, I didn't play the VN though, just watched the anime.

Her voice sounded funny. My suspicions were confirmed when she picked up Keiichi, she had Tomitake's bike and refused to let him look in the trunk.

[Anonymous No.]

Natsuhi shot at the portrait and the bullet ricocheted.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2944241
Beatrice says in red:
"Natsuhi was killed by another person!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944227
Isn't Ito Miki voicing Eva in Umineko?

...I wonder if she'll be doing a dual role as Lambdadelta.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944250

There wasn't any red in episode 1.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2944260
Which is why you should read the other episodes before coming up with silly theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944260
I don't get it, how can people argue without even having read the four available arcs?

Shut the fuck up, bro. The red comes after. Go back to reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944266

I have. I didn't come up with that theory. I just like correcting people.

[Anonymous No.]

One person is responsible for both the first six and the the victims of twilights 6-8. Someone entirely different killed Eva and Hideyoshi.

Kanon and Shannon, assuming they aren't the same person, were both faking their deaths - only Hideyoshi and Kanon saw "Shannon's" corpse and the fact that Kanon's "wound" is different from everyone else in the episode makes it seem to be a fabrication.

[Ushiromiya !IBaTTlErlE No.]

>>2944259
Yes, Miki Itou is Eva and it's great. She sounds exactly like Takano and that's exactly how I imagined her.

I suspect Lambdadelta will be voiced by Mika Kanai if she's voiced by a returning Higurashi cast member, though.

[Anonymous No.]

I could have swore I read a novel with the same EXACT premise of Umineko... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2944274
You correct someone when they made a mistake. I did not make a mistake. This thread says discuss thoughts and theories on Episode 1. That doesn't mean you have to ignore all data relevant to Episode 1 revealed in other Episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944287
And Then There Were None is about witches?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944287

premise is not the same as plot.

>>2944291

That's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944299
killer judges XD

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944287
Yep and there is nothing wrong with that.

Things with similar themes generally will involve the same sort of story line.
Mystery-Murder-Detective novels etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944287
But these are too similar. Trapped on an island, epitaph outlining a list of deaths accurately, and the supposedly dead walking about. And the killer is dead, too, by the end of the story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944280
continued:

Episode 4 gave us a pretty big hint in terms of identifying the various killers, assuming that each method of killing belongs to one person.

For example, the face smasher, by process of elimination would be either George, Maria, or Kanon since in assessing both episodes 1 and 4 together, these 3 are the only possible suspects, unless we include Culprit X. The reason for this is that if we consider the people who didn't have their faces smashed in Episode 4 and remove those who suffered that fate in episode 1, then these 3 are left.

Since both Maria and George have strong alibis, while Kanon likely faked his death, Kanon is almost certainly the smasher.

And if we work off of this premise, we might be able to determine what actually happened in episode 4, since we know for certain when Kanon actually died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944287

IT EVEN HAS U.N. OWEN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944347
>Trapped on an island
Because that's a rare mystery set up.

>the supposedly dead walking about.
In Umineko that happened, what, once?

>And the killer is dead, too, by the end of the story.
Hasn't happened in Umineko, as far as we know.

So all that leaves is the epitaph. Which is a large similarity, but considering the execution of the overall story is completely different it's fair to say that the epitaph is at most an homage. Umineko references many Western mysteries after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944378
It only happened once in Ten Little Niggers, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944378
>And the killer is dead, too, by the end of the story.
Hasn't happened in Umineko, as far as we know.

It's heavily implied in Episode 3 that whoever carried out the first murders died accidentally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944355
This is interesting. Didn't someone have a writeup for all the different methods of killing, and who the methods matched up with?

[Anonymous No.]

Since Kanon didn't die in the boiler room, we can probably conclude that he carried out at least one of the murders.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler killed everyone. He acts like he's trying to find the real killer, but that's just the best way to avoid suspicion.

He's always the last one dead. It must be him.

[Anonymous No.]

Watching the anime made me wonder about this.

Is it safe to say that Genji and Kanon were bullshitting about the local line not working? They worked fine in episode 4, and I don't believe anyone else ever tried confirming it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944400

[Anonymous No.]

How did Battler reason that Eva/Hideyoshi were killed in the closed room again?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944400
You know too much

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944409
Some sort of person x by way of body double hiding under the bed.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2944409
I'm probably wrong but I think he thought that maybe someone used the window, then locked it as they went back into the room with the rest of the people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944393
Well, I'm only guessing that he faked his death earlier. It's possible he didn't die, but it's unlikely given the various pieces of circumstantial evidence we have.

>>2944389
Well I haven't tried reasoning through the other methods of killing yet, but I did notice that the stranglings only begin after Eva finds the gold, for what it's worth. That said, I still don't think she's the chief culprit - my guess is that Rudolf and Kyrie orchestrated the first twilight and then both were killed by Hideyoshi after trying to blackmail him, which could explain why Eva went insane and shot Battler at the end of the episode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944400
It's been stated in red that Battler isn't the killer right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944424
That only applied to Nanjo in episode 3

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944405
After the phonecall with Maria singing at a distance is received by Natsuhi, she immeadiately tries to ring the police, only to find the line isn't working.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944431
That would be the outside line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944406

He actually shot her with one of the spare guns. That was the 'BANG'.

His father loved westerns, after all.

>>2944409

Eh? Tiny bombs, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Nanjo the only non-cousin to never die on the first twilight?

[Anonymous No.]

I wanted the Predecessor Beatrice to win on Episode 3. Fuck you Beato ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944460

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944456
I think so, though we don't know the actual kill order for episode 4, since the witch's game never took place.

Also, do any of you have any coherent ideas about the stakings and who's responsible for them? I really haven't scratched the surface as to why they're good in episodes 1 and 2, sloppy in 3 and nonexistent in 4.

My own conjecture amounts to this: episode 3 has a different person doing the stakings and episode 4 features the staker killed early.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944355
But I thought that the victims in Ep. 4 didn't have their faces "smashed" so much as they had entire parts of their head blown away, which isn't quite the same as the face smashing/plowing/mutilation that the Ep. 1 bodies experienced.

Besides that, the damage to the faces in Ep. 1 was made to sound as if it was done after the victim had already been killed, separate from whatever actually did kill them.
The damage to the victims in Ep. 4 on the other hand wasn't something done after they had been killed, but was in fact CAUSED by whatever it was that killed them.

While the corpses in Ep. 1 and 4 may have the fact the heads are damaged in common, if the cause and reason for that damage is different, it's not really a case of a recurring M.O. The first twilight victims in Ep. 1 could have been poisoned prior to the face-smashing, which in terms of method used wouldn't really match with someone blowing away the victims in Ep. 4 with a gun, even if the end result looks the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944473
continued:
And if we assume a different person did the stakings in episode 3, how do we explain said person obtaining the stakes to begin with?

Is it possible that he/she found the stakes on one of the corpses, but not the device used to fire them?

[Anonymous No.]

I suspect the culprit and the motive is different each episode. Excluding a person "X", if such a person exists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944434
She tries to ring the servants room too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944474
>But I thought that the victims in Ep. 4 didn't have their faces "smashed" so much as they had entire parts of their head blown away, which isn't quite the same as the face smashing/plowing/mutilation that the Ep. 1 bodies experienced.

While I didn't make the same distinction that you do with regards to the face smashing, I'd like to point out that Krauss and Shannon (assuming that she actually died) both had half their faces destroyed in the same way as episode 4. If you're saying that you think the half smashing and full smashing were by different people, then how do you explain the first twilight of episode 1 being set up? As we've seen, the person who does the half smashing (assuming it's someone else) has no interest in following the epitaph, unlike the orderly kills in episode 1.

>Besides that, the damage to the faces in Ep. 1 was made to sound as if it was done after the victim had already been killed, separate from whatever actually did kill them. The damage to the victims in Ep. 4 on the other hand wasn't something done after they had been killed, but was in fact CAUSED by whatever it was that killed them.

We don't know that whatever killed them in episode 4 was the actual cause of death. They very well could have been poisoned and then mutilated postmortem.

>While the corpses in Ep. 1 and 4 may have the fact the heads are damaged in common, if the cause and reason for that damage is different, it's not really a case of a recurring M.O. The first twilight victims in Ep. 1 could have been poisoned prior to the face-smashing, which in terms of method used wouldn't really match with someone blowing away the victims in Ep. 4 with a gun, even if the end result looks the same.

See above - there's no guarantee that the smashings in 4 were the actual cause of death, especially when you consider stuff like Jessica's call to Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943954
About the "they recognized Kinzo," I feel obligated to throw in my theory: his corpse is carted in to make them all go "oh shit." There's nothing in the relevant red text about recognizing a living Kinzo, just Kinzo. WAY more reasonable than names that get inherited.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944473
Kumasuwa and Nanjo are the only 2 people to be staked twice by the same stake and on the same twilight and the only 2 stakes not to be used in EP3(None were used in ep4)

Lucifer
Genji EP1 6th
George EP2 6th
Krauss Ep3 7th

Leviathan
Kamasawa EP1 8th
Kumasawa EP2 8th
--

Satan
Kanon EP1 5TH
Kanon EP2 2nd
Natsuki EP3 8th

Belphegor
Nanjo EP1 7th
Nanjo EP2 7th
--

Mammon
Kinzo EP1 4th
Shanon EP2 4th
Kyrie EP3 6th

Beelzebub
Hideyoshi EP1 2nd
Goha EP2 5th
Hideyoshi EP3 5th

Asmodeus
EVA EP1 2nd
Jessica EP2 2nd
Rudolf EP3 4th

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944499
Was Jessica's death/innocence confirmed in ep 4? I think she may be a murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944483
I suspect there are multiple culprits with varying motives working together depending on who is or isn't killed at the first twilight.
Notice how in the first twilight of games where Shannon is killed, Eva and Hideyoshi both survive, while in the games where Shanon survives the first twilight, both Eva and Hideyoshi die?

Similarly, but more strangely, have you noticed that all of the games where Rudolph dies at the first twilight are the ones where Kanon survives it, while in the ONE game where Kanon dies at the first twilight Rudolph survives it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944420
Windows basically don't exist in Umineko; every closed room gets in red something to the effect of "nothing passed through the window during the relevant stretch of time."

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944504
"They recognized Kinzo" doesn't necessarily mean they recognized him by sight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944515
I and at least one other anon, who came up with the super long version of this theory, think she is one of the people who pose as Beatrice (Kanon most likely being another to make the end of Ep1 work). This helps a whole lot with Ep4, and in Ep1 when "Beatrice" gets the survivors to kick half of themselves out of Kinzo's room, Jessica's part in the whole process can seem pretty much calculated to make just that happen (with Maria as an accomplice).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944504
I believe this too, but there is a hole in this theory for which I haven't accounted yet. Krauss and Natsuhi are the ones burning Kinzo and most likely, they were the ones who ordered that his corpse be taken from the room and marched into the dining hall. But if that's the case, who killed Natsuhi? She's definitely Krauss' accomplice and I doubt he'd order her death.

[Anonymous No.]

Did anyone notice that Nanjo didn't check if Shannon is alive the EP1?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944537

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944525
The only other sense that wouldn't make that hilarious is hearing... ooh, recording maybe? That's pretty interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944542

If red were to be used in episode 1, I'm pretty sure Beato would declare everyone found in the storehouse to be dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944525
What does the actual japanese red text say?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944549
I don't think it's too far fetched. Beatrice said they wouldn't mistake Kinzo's appearance, but she never said anything about voice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944516
Your point about Rudolf is well taken, but why do you associate Rudolf and Kanon, rather than Rudolf and any other servant?

[Anonymous No.]

Natsuhi is probably behind most of the killings in EP1. Since Kinzo's dead before the game begins, Natsuhi either imagined meeting with Kinzo on the morning of Oct. 5 in EP1, or was remembering a past memory. There'd be no reason for her to do that if she wasn't already planning something. Natsuhi comes out of that room thinking she's the best one to lead the family, and so she kills everyone for the sake of the Ushiromiya family.

Plus, Jessica gave her that scorpion charm and she told her that it was supposed to ward off evil spirits. Only Jessica knew she gave it to her mom, unless she told someone else. So Natsuhi put all that red paint on her door in the middle of the night to make it seem like someone had tried to enter her room to kill her, thus throwing off the investigation.

The only problem with this is the last 3 twilights where you have the 3 servants Genji, Kumwasawa, and Nanji in the parlor while Natsuhi and the kids (minus Maria) are in the study. Natsuhi might have snuck out of the study while the kids were asleep, but I don't remember if all the kids were asleep at one time. Otherwise, one of those servants were working with Natsuhi, and so killed two of the servants, but in the process got killed themselves.

But then there's Natsuhi's death. Perhaps one of the servants, like Kanon say, wasn't dead, so then he meets her in the entranceway, takes her gun and kills her. Whatever happens to that person later is questionable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>While I didn't make the same distinction that you do with regards to the face smashing, I'd like to point out that Krauss and Shannon (assuming that she actually died) both had half their faces destroyed in the same way as episode 4.

Actually, not quite. If we're to assume the character portraits are meant to somewhat represent the location and type of wounds on the corpses, Shannon's corpse seems as if it's in slightly different condition between those two episodes. While indeed half of her head is "destroyed", the portion and manner in which that half is destroyed.

And again, even if the faces are "smashed" or "destoryed" there's going to be a BIG difference in that damage is caused by, say, beating or smashing it with some sort of tool or blunt instrument as opposed to blowing it away with a gun.

Considering they couldn't guess the cause of death from the corpses in Ep. 1, while the big chunks of head, skull, and brain missing from the victims in Ep. 4 were guessed to be due to a gun of some sort, I think there's more of a difference in the condition of these face-damaged corpses than you're giving credit for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944549
>>>/rs/There_is_no_way_that_they_would_mistake_the_taste_of_Kinzo!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944559
>All of those who met at the family conference recognized the existence of Kinzo! (親族会議に居合わせた全員が、金蔵の存在を認めた！)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2943856
Beatrice.
Killed everyone with Magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944608
Could the Kanji for "existence" be interpreted in more than one way or have different connotations than the English word?

>>2944589
> the big chunks of head, skull, and brain missing from the victims in Ep. 4

Was this ever described or are you only going by the picture? Also, I'd like to point out that aside from the discrepancy with the First Twilight I discussed earlier, all of the wounds in episode 4 look different from each other, in spite of all blowing off half the head.

Basically, I think you're getting too focused on the small details and as such, are missing the big picture. Even Meta-Battler acknowledges the method to be the same as found in Episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>Your point about Rudolf is well taken, but why do you associate Rudolf and Kanon, rather than Rudolf and any other servant?

Well, for starters, because the only other servant besides Kanon who hasn't been a first twilight victim at the same time as Rudolph at least once is Kumasawa, and while I could have just as easily used her, I think between the fact that in Ep. 1 Rudolph made mention that he would probably be killed that night, and the fact that aside from Ep 3. he is one of the very first to be killed every single time, clearly he knows something and his death may be related to that.

On top of that, even after four episodes Kanon is still one of the servants who we know the least about. We got a glimpse of Kumasawa's family outside of the island, yet aside from that little flashback with Jessica's concert, we don't really know all that much about Kanon's life or history beyond the island. That already makes him rather suspicious, and the fact that at least twice he's reported to be dead despite no one finding his corpse doesn't help matters.

So, you have a guy who almost always dies first for some reason, a guy who almost never dies first for some reason, one of whom knows something you don't, and the other you know next-to-nothing about. If you're going to have to pick someone to try to link to why Rudolph snuffs it so early so consistently, you have to start with someone, and Kanon seems as good a candidate as any.

[Anonymous No.]

>But then there's Natsuhi's death. Perhaps one of the servants, like Kanon say, wasn't dead, so then he meets her in the entranceway, takes her gun and kills her. Whatever happens to that person later is questionable.

What i want to know is why did Natsuhi locked Battler and everyone else in the Parlor and went straight to the portrait, did she get a letter or something? Or maybe, she saw someone who's supposed to be dead and chased after it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944687
存在 (sonzai) - existence/being

I don't know how else you could interpret it

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.geocities.com/rogerpepitone/Umineko-notes.html

You guys should check this site out. The "Miscellaneous Items" section is pretty interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944728
>Around 7:15, a golden butterfly appears when Rosa goes up to Kinzo's room and lands on her back.
I never understood the point of that. It didn't seem to lead anywhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944687
>>Was this ever described or are you only going by the picture?

I'm going by what it said in the game, the picture just kinda supports it.

The state of the corpses in the dining room was they had their heads split open. When Kraus was found, his head was said to be "smashed" yet was identified to have been apparently killed the same way as the victims in the dining room, meaning his head was in the same split-open state.

Since Shannon and Nanjo were also said to have their heads "smashed", it's not unreasonable to think their heads were more or less in the same state.

As for it being a "small detail", it absolutely is not a small detail what condition a corpse is in when you're dealing with a murder mystery. Damage to the body before, during, and after someone is killed can happen for very different reasons, and can suggest how they're killed, or how the killer wants you to THINK they were killed. These things matter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944793
Neither did Genji nailing that butterfly with a knife in ep 2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944793

Butterfly turns into a Beatrice outline in the second to last chapter... at least I think it was the second to last chapter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944846
>The state of the corpses in the dining room was they had their heads split open. When Kraus was found, his head was said to be "smashed" yet was identified to have been apparently killed the same way as the victims in the dining room, meaning his head was in the same split-open state.

You're ignoring what I said earlier. Meta-Battler, who's seen all of the games firsthand, recognizes the M.O. of the smashings to be the same as the first twilight of Episode 1; so if you're going to argue that Krauss was killed in the same was the people in the dining room because of Battler's stated recognition, then you'd need to apply it in this case as well.

And let's tentatively assume that your deduction is correct. You still haven't answered:

>I'd like to point out that Krauss and Shannon (assuming that she actually died) both had half their faces destroyed in the same way as episode 4. If you're saying that you think the half smashing and full smashing were by different people, then how do you explain the first twilight of episode 1 being set up? As we've seen, the person who does the half smashing (assuming it's someone else) has no interest in following the epitaph, unlike the orderly kills in episode 1.

>As for it being a "small detail", it absolutely is not a small detail what condition a corpse is in when you're dealing with a murder mystery. Damage to the body before, during, and after someone is killed can happen for very different reasons, and can suggest how they're killed, or how the killer wants you to THINK they were killed. These things matter.

Even if you have a machine or gun, blowing people's faces off in a consistent or even way is a difficult feat. Regardless, please give me your version of the first twilight of episode 1 and a framework for episode 4, if you can do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2944948

>Even if you have a machine or gun, blowing people's faces off in a consistent or even way is a difficult feat.

That doesn't mean it couldn't be done, also, VNs aren't realistic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>And let's tentatively assume that your deduction is correct. You still haven't answered:

>>>I'd like to point out that Krauss and Shannon (assuming that she actually died) both had half their faces destroyed in the same way as episode 4. If you're saying that you think the half smashing and full smashing were by different people, then how do you explain the first twilight of episode 1 being set up? As we've seen, the person who does the half smashing (assuming it's someone else) has no interest in following the epitaph, unlike the orderly kills in episode 1.

Alright then.
First, though, you would have to answer me THIS:
According to you, the smashed faces in Ep. 1 are said to be the same as the smashed heads in Ep. 4.
If that is true, then why do you say:
>>assuming that she actually died

As I showed in that image, the heads in Ep. 4 aren't just described as being "smashed", they're SPLIT OPEN. Kraus's head was even described as being viewed as a "cross section". Meaning, I would assume, you're not just seeing mangled flesh and can actually see the insides of his skull. That's how Battler could say, despite having no medical knowledge, that he was sure they were dead with 100% certainty.

So, if their heads are so damaged that you could immediately tell there is no possibly way they could be alive, and this is the same state that the bodies in Ep. 1 were in, then why is there room to doubt that someone with their face smashed, even partially, was really dead?

[Anonymous No.]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6474/1247675785265.jpg

Jessica came