[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 70 KB, 802x602, ty_mu_hcg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2911236 No.2911236 [Reply] [Original]

Every time I read an english review of a VN, they always say the same thing: "the game would have been fine without h-scenes".
I don't get it. why so many people hate sex scenes?

>> No.2911238

Bad execution.

And it's worse if those scenes are badly drawn.

>> No.2911243

It feels forced.

>> No.2911247

A lot of games would have been 'fine' without H scenes.

Just not necessarily as good.

I can name more VNs that are better off for the H scenes than worse off.

>> No.2911251

Sex scenes are only there as fap fodder. They never have any real point in the story, except for very particular exceptions (looking at you, FSN.)

I wouldn't go as far as say VNs shouldn't have h-scenes, but they certainly are pointless and the VNs would be just as fine without the hentai.

>> No.2911259

Random fucking sex scenes.

>> No.2911264

>>2911247
>I can name more VNs that are better off for the H scenes than worse off.

That's because most eroge are simply that, eroge. Those with real stories could all do without the hentai, but most of them are simply there to give you a reason to masturbate.

>> No.2911268

It depends, are you reading VNs for story, characters etc. Or are you reading them to fap?

>> No.2911272

anyone who says "hentai" insted of "ero" or "H" is a low level faggot.

>> No.2911273

>>2911251
>VNs would be just as fine without the hentai.
They're also just fine with hentai.

>> No.2911277

>>2911236
trap?

>> No.2911280

>>2911264
No; plenty of VNs with real stories are better off because of the H scenes.

I think a lot of people here are unaware of this because a large portion of the story-centric titles that get translated are in this particular minority (where the H scenes actively detract from the overall experience). I'm not sure exactly where this bias comes from, but neither commercial nor fan translators want to translate high quality eroero - it's either low quality eroero (a large portion of JAST's lineup, pretty much all of Dark Translations' stuff) or high quality story-centric (some of JAST's lineup, a significant number of other fan-translated works).

>> No.2911282

I still don't get it. If I'm having romance with I girl, I would also like to fuck her. Why wouldn't you feel the same?

>> No.2911283

Because America is scared of sex.

>> No.2911290

>>2911283
But America produces more child pornography than any other country in the world. That doesn't sound very scared to me.

>> No.2911294

Just me personally, but it's very hard for me to take any story seriously with random sex scenes in it. It's always out of place or stupid. Here I am trying to read through this stuff then suddenly a cock shoved into someone's face.

It gets rid of the whole serious story I'm trying to get into and reminds you that the game is just poor fap material.

>> No.2911302

>>2911294
If a game has "random sex scenes" in it, it's probably shitty.

Thankfully basically no half-decent eroges have anything like that. Clearly you don't play those, though!

>> No.2911322

>>2911290
You are a fucking idiot. I... I can't even believe the stupiudity of the sentence you just wrote.

>> No.2911328

There's still the stigma about sex being dirty and anything drawn being a cartoon for kids. Combined it will make almost anyone raised in a western society feel some level of weird, shame, or disgust.

>> No.2911343

>>2911251
>>I'm looking at you FSN
>>I am so stupid i think FSN didnt include that special circumstance as an excuse for porn

>> No.2911351

Mana transfer H scenes are fine if they're used well. Look at Eien no Aselia.

FSN, not so much.

>> No.2911367

If the h-scenes are well-integrated into the storyline then they enhance the game because of the emotional attachment that is developed between the player and the characters.

>> No.2911373

Maybe they'd like to be able to discuss these VNs in polite society, share them with children, read them in a non-private setting, etc.

I know all these things are technically possible anyway.

>> No.2911374

>>2911283
>>2911283
>>2911283
>>2911283
>>2911283
>>2911283
This.

>> No.2911375

>>2911351
>>FSN, not so much.

To be fair, writing about sex isn't nasu's strong point. The only way he can even begin to write it is to slam his head against the wall multiple times then type the scene in a half-dazed stupor after grabbing whatever is in his freezer to cool his swelling bruises. Unfortunantly, most of the time all he has in his freezer is shrimp or mussels.

>> No.2911381

>>2911373
>>Maybe they'd like to be able to discuss these VNs in polite society, share them with children, read them in a non-private setting, etc.

I already do all of the above, except it's all about the sex scenes.

>> No.2911382

>>2911375
>hurr durr aquatic lifeforms mentioned once out of 15ish h-scenes let's go run a joke into the ground

>> No.2911391

>>2911382
>>hurr durr aquatic lifeforms mentioned once out of 15ish h-scenes let's go run a joke into the Mariana Trench

fixed.

>> No.2911399

Some VNs are made for masturbating to, like Violent Semen Inferno. Some are made for reading a good story, like Umineko/Ever17/insert VN without sex scenes. But most of them seem to be somewhere in between, which I don't really understand. If a sex scene is really called for in the story, fine, but don't shove it in just for the hell of it.

>> No.2911401

Anyone have the a pic of the mollusk prose or the text?

>> No.2911634

I see most as romance stories. So the sex is fine as a sign of how close the characters are. It is less fine when it is just "Oh we just met on the train so we are fucking a little". Those cases it feels more like just porn and the plot can just kill itself.

>> No.2911898

>>2911399
They're in there because VNs without sex scenes don't sell well, unless they're an "all-ages" version of an already popular VN.

>> No.2911923

>>2911898
Tokimeki games sold like hotcakes - far better than practically all eroges sell.

That said, I don't think they'd go down quite so well nowadays.

>> No.2911928

>>2911923
Tokimeki games are not VNs...

>> No.2911932

>>2911928
oh christ not this again

>> No.2911939

>>2911923
And KID went bankrupt.

>> No.2911961

>>2911939
And Clannad sold amazingly well.

I think there isn't that much corellation between sex scenes and sales.

>> No.2911971

>>2911939
And then got their titles bought by CYBERFRONT.
Then they reformed into 5pb.

>> No.2912405

>>2911282
This.

There's this huge disconnect between the English side of the net's perception of "VNs" as some kind of general-purpose storytelling medium like books, and the actual Japanese market for which eroge are created, which is for the point of falling in love with the characters and experiencing a virtual romance with them, sex included as part of the package.

>> No.2912473

>>2912405
>which is for the point of falling in love with the characters and experiencing a virtual romance with them, sex included as part of the package

It's not a disconnect. People (apart from drooling neckbeards) disdain this because it's transparently pandering wish fulfillment catering to the lowest common denominator of humanity. If you want to see how hard this principle fails in producing anything of even mediocre quality, look no further than recent applications of this principle to anime and its wonderful result - Lucky Star/K-on.

>> No.2912475

>>2912405

Eroge is a subset of the visual novel medium, isn't it? Maybe a really big subset, but still, there are VNs that aren't eroge.

>> No.2912494

>>2912473
lucky star is awesome, haven't seen k-on

>> No.2912503

>>2912475
I would think the reverse, since there are eroge that aren't VN's....

>> No.2912516

>>2912494
K-on is also great.

I don't care what anybody else has to say about it.

>> No.2912519
File: 102 KB, 801x600, 1240979572212.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912519

People like 2D sex, whether its in text or video format

>> No.2912520

VNs are a subset of AVGs
Eroges are usually AVGs, but not necessarily.

>> No.2912522

>>2912503

So there are VNs that aren't eroge and eroge that aren't VNs, then. Someone should make a Venn diagram of all this shit.

>> No.2912523

>>2911236
>why so many people hate sex scenes?

Because the westerners are all faggots who don't understand that most eroges are made for the only purpose of masturbation.

>> No.2912527

>>2912473
No shit.
It's like some Japanese women importing American romance novels, treating them as high art, and saying they'd be better without the sex.

>>2912475
The format exists for virtual romance, period. There's non-adult galgames, sure, mostly on consoles, but the core point--virtual waifu 4 u--is the same.

07th expansion and Chunsoft are extraordinarily special exceptions. There's not some industry of storytelling in this format with a variety of genres. It's not like manga or TV. It's not that such a thing couldn't exist, it's just that it doesn't.

>> No.2912536
File: 260 KB, 951x513, Koe-De-Oshigoto!_03_10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912536

>>2912475
>>2912503
>>2912473
>>2912405

>> No.2912539

>>2912523
Your base addiction to sex makes you no better than the sluts you claim to hate. Unlike the rest of us, you're a virgin not because of your masculine pride or your chaste and serene composure, but merely as a result of being an ugly, lazy douchebag. Get out of my /jp/, slut.

>> No.2912560

>>2912494
>>2912516
>proclaiming lucky star and k-on are good

Enjoy being the male equivalent of a Twilight fan. /a/ called, I heard they love that sort of thing. Oh, and lock the door on your way out, please.

>> No.2912573

>>2912560
>My taste is better than yours. Also, my asshole does not stink.

>> No.2912577

>>2912573
Mine smells like delicious curry.

>> No.2912583

Nothing wrong with seeing your waifu fucked by the one she loves

>> No.2912585

>>2912577
Does it burn like one?

>> No.2912586

>>2912527

I'm no expert, but it seems like there's a lot more potential for the visual novel format to expand outside of a niche market for virtual romance and rape games. After all, we've already got stuff like Ever17, Umineko, Planetarian and probably quite a few other untranslated titles that don't revolve around sex or romantic relationships.

>> No.2912592

>>2912573
Given that you haven't provided any reasons why your awful, plotless merchandise driven show isn't anything other than complete garbage, yes, my tastes are better than yours.

Provide some actual justification for your opinion and this may change, however.

>> No.2912598

>>2912560
The annoying part of Twilight fans isn't that they like Twilight, it's that they treat it like more than it is.

I like K-on, but I'm not going to pretend it's because there's actually something to it; in fact, I like it because it has moe characters with moe voices, animated. No more, no less.
I don't see it as any different than having a favorite porno.

>> No.2912604

>>2912473
If you don't like it don't play eroge. VNs exist to pander to lonely otaku (as if all entertainment doesn't pander to its target audience).

>> No.2912605

>>2912583
>Nothing wrong with seeing your waifu fucked by the one she loves

Enjoy your damaged goods.

>> No.2912607

>>2912586
there isnt, they tried that with CYOA books,
it failed pretty bad,

>> No.2912618

H-scenes in VNs keep the weeaboos away because they think it's just a "dating sim" or "porn game". The more H the better!

>> No.2912625

>>2912592
>anything other than complete garbage
OPINIONS.
But seriously, >>2912598 has it nailed pretty well. I'm not going to say the show is like a Picasso or anything, but the girls are cute, the voices are good, and it's pretty well animated.
I didn't say you were a jackass for not liking it or anything. There really IS nothing to the show but eyecandy, but it's eyecandy good enough that I think the show is great.

>> No.2912629
File: 121 KB, 800x738, IMG_1703.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912629

>>2912536
Back in my day, that chart would also have listed "nanpa-type"
I miss the good old days.

>> No.2912638

>>2912583
You're doing it wrong.
If you can't project yourself into the protagonist, these games aren't for you.

>> No.2912640

>>2912629
Fuck yeah, Doukyusei

I miss those days too.....

>> No.2912652
File: 64 KB, 468x769, 200601194mc.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912652

>>2912629
Watch out everyone. We are dealing with an expert here.

>> No.2912654

>>2912604
Here's how I see it. Just as you do, I think the idea of a VN as a substantive medium for anything other than dressed up porn games is infinitely close to zero, but only because people have the same sort of attitude you do and as such, expect nothing better. As a result, nothing better is ever made and we end up in deluge of plotless derivative rehash in generic settings because said deluge was commercially successful as a result of its low quality.

Think of it this way. Assume those nightmarishly bad Sader figures sold like hotcakes. In their frenzy to purchase and hotglue them, the companies receive a message that regardless of the product's quality, the consumers will buy them. We would then be further flooded by things like "Sader Alter" or "Sader Lily," all of which will still suck.

But if employed our discrimination and demanded a better product by refusing to purchase Saders, the companies would need to make something better.

>> No.2912658

>>2912607

Yeah, those books were pretty generic and basically made for children. Besides, even if it's just a couple of developers making them, there's no doubt there are at least a few hugely successful non-porn non-eroge non-whatever VNs out there. I don't see any particular reason why there can't be more. On the contrary, with the way things are going these days the visual novel medium, or something like it, may well become a lot more mainstream in the future.

>> No.2912664

>>2912638
That's a silly claim to make. I never insert myself but I enjoy eroge as much as the next guy.

>> No.2912670

>>2912592
what, i need a reason to justify my entertainment? sorry I'm not big into your bullshit 3rd grade plots like fucking naruto death note and fuckawful bleach, along with your porn games
you want plot? go read a real fucking book you pseudo intellectual.

>> No.2912678

>>2912654
But some visual novels are pretty fucking good so I don't see your point.

>> No.2912693

>>2912625
>>2912598
As long as you accept the status quo, you'll never see anything better. If you liked those shows, than even more than myself, you have an obligation to criticize their (substantial) shortcomings if you'd like to see something more interesting in the future than the same recycled otaku media cliches/fanservice.

>> No.2912698

>>2912629
>good old days.
>shitty art
yeah, keep telling that to yourself.

>> No.2912706

I don't see the problem, if you don't want to see the sex then just hold ctrl for two minutes. What people should be complaining about is the good for nothing, absolutely neutral, fucking sad excuses for human beings that are the main characters in eroge. It's not so evident in the games that are translated, but for the vast majority that isn't translated, the sheer stupidity of the main character tends to ruin the game much more than any forced sex scene ever could.

>> No.2912712

>>2912625
I don't like K-on or most anime and standard "moe games" for that matter, but really no one can say that those qualities aren't as important as any other qualities. No one can really say that it's bad or that it's a lower form of art or whatever, if the audience enjoys it then it should have the same respect as any other form of entertainment.

And on the Picasso example, I would probably think that K-on or most shows that I don't find very good to be giving for me then his paintings. So in my words, they are a greater form of art.

>> No.2912721

>>2912706
Shitty indecisive protagonists are an easy way to drag out a story

>> No.2912725

>>2912712
And that's the last time I will ever say anything good about them again, now back to trolling anime threads.

>> No.2912726

>>2912693
There's zero point in criticizing "shortcomings" when it's not the point of the show to be at all specialized in anything but visual cuteness. I don't NEED to have the status quo changed, since I'm satisfied with it. I don't feel I need to criticize moe shows, because they aren't the only genre out there. If I want to watch something else, I can do so.

Why do you seem to be of the opinion that moe is the only genre in anime?

>> No.2912729

>>2912706

This doesn't just apply to VNs.

In fact I'd say VN protagonists are a step up from your standard anime/manga MC.

>> No.2912739 [DELETED] 

>>2912693
Show me a single medium where the majority of the content isn't shit. The universal good to shit ration is low and no amount of elitism is going to change that.

That being said not every anime needs to be deep and pretentious and there is nothing wrong with enjoying the occasional light hearted slice of life show. I feel sorry for you if you have such narrow tastes that you can't enjoy anything that isn't mature anime for mature viewers such as yourself.

>> No.2912745

>>2912693
Show me a single medium where the majority of the content isn't shit. The universal good to shit ratio is low and no amount of elitism is going to change that.

That being said not every anime needs to be deep and pretentious and there is nothing wrong with enjoying the occasional light hearted slice of life show. I feel sorry for you if you have such narrow tastes that you can't enjoy anything that isn't mature anime for mature viewers such as yourself.

>> No.2912746
File: 114 KB, 530x336, afce5c5d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912746

>>2912698
you better not be dissin' Takei Masaki, foo

>> No.2912753

>>2912706

Good reason for that. Partly to pander to those sad types who like to self-insert into the game and pretend they're the protagonist, and partly because its a real cheap way to achieve character 'development'.

>> No.2912756

>>2912670
>telling other people to read books
>post by a user that doesn't understand capitalization calling others pseudo-intellectuals

Nice try kid. Are you seriously trying to say that you think that liking moe makes you superior to people who like shonen?

Newsflash: they're both iredeemably awful and people fond of either type of show should be shot. They both suffer from the same problems - a complete lack of narrative and character development, 12/26/50+ episodes wasted on filler and by being cliched and derivative to the point of parody. If you hate only shonen or only moe for reasons other than bandwagon circlejerking, then you can't justifiably like the other without being a contemptible hypocrite.

Also, your idea of what constitutes narrative betrays your taste in shows. Go watch Legend of Galactic Heroes and say with a straight face that no Anime ever made has had a serious, well-written story. Just because you're one of those CODEGEASS faggots from /a/ doesn't mean that every show is as bad as your favorites.

>>2912678
Considering that the qualifier "good" entails comparison, I'd have to ask you - they're good compared to what?

>> No.2912759

>>2912746
Oh god the shoujo eyes on the bottom left.

>> No.2912762

>>2912745

Not that guy, but it seems like a lot of the popular shows people shit their pants over don't do lighthearted comedy right, since they aren't funny.

>> No.2912766

>>2912693
Go back to over-analyzing Texhnolyze or some other HURR DEEP anime/manga/movies/novels you retarded fuck.

>> No.2912774

>>2912693
Do you think people criticize the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue in any way, other than model/swimsuit choices?
Do you actually think they NEED to?

"Well, this issue wasn't that great. I mean, they did a crappy storytelling job with the pictures, and the Volcano scene was completely unrealistic, totally broke my suspension of disbelief."
You will probably never hear this, because it's not relevant to the medium.

>> No.2912781

>>2912729
Anime and manga protagonists get worse with every new season but that's partially because animes are going closer and closer to being plotless harem shows. I won't argue and say eroge are any better at staying away from the typical harem bull shit, but there tends to be a more seriousness to the stories in the better eroge out there. It just sucks that even the protagonists of those genres are falling more and more into the naive, inexperienced hero that has no real conviction for whatever the fuck he is doing until right at the very end of the damn game.

>> No.2912796

>>2912756
Why would character development be important in judging if a show is good or bad? I've seen and read a lot of entertainment without much character development that's entertaining so I would say speak for yourself.

>> No.2912799

>>2912756
LoGH is my favorite anime and I fully enjoyed Lucky Star. Being an idort feels good man.

>Considering that the qualifier "good" entails comparison, I'd have to ask you - they're good compared to what?
If you were to compare VNs to something like pop-fiction (both being literature written purely for entertainment) many VNs would be considered good.

>> No.2912800

>>2912766
Go back to cutting yourself over how Nagi isn't a virgin, you subhuman waste of life.

>> No.2912803

I read Playboy for the articles.

>> No.2912805

Because most of them don't need it.

Look at Clannad. No H-Scenes and it was great. I'm sure if it had H-Scenes it would have ruined things a bit.

>> No.2912806

>>2912803
I play fighting games for the story.
I guess you and I are alike.

>> No.2912807

>>2912803
Sounds rewarding

>> No.2912811

>>2912799
Obviously I mean that I personally would consider them good, but I should clarify that before some shitstorm about objective quality occurs.

>> No.2912812

I fap to Reader's Digest.

>> No.2912815

>>2912805
Actually, I was kinda disappointed by the lack of sex scenes. There needs to be a Clannad Ecstasy or some sort of sex mode that you can activate.

>> No.2912821

>>2912805
I don't agree, a tender sexscene between Nagisa and Tomoya as a way of showing how Nagisa got pregnant would probably have increased the reality factor.

>> No.2912823

>>2912796
Because if there's no character development, the story itself is pointless because any of the conflicts faced by the hero fail to change him in any way and as such, he's the same person as he was when the show/story began. It basically means that the entire series was a waste of time.

Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why shonen sucks.

>>2912774
If you're saying that an interest in VNs isn't any less shallow than an interest in sluts, then on what grounds do you look down on "normalfags?"

And just to speak generally - there's a distinction between a something that features moe and something clearly made to cash in on the craze. More in the next post.

>> No.2912824

>>2912815
You don't play Clannad for fapping. You play it to baww.

>> No.2912825

>>2912800
>subhuman waste of life
Same to you, faggot.

>> No.2912826
File: 47 KB, 331x500, 51G7CM0F9XL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912826

>>2912753
This is where I split with a lot of the otaku crowd.
I do want to imagine myself as the protagonist, but I want to be someone better than me, some kick-ass guy.

But a lot of otaku seem to want the game to validate their real-life selves.

In his book, "Denpa Otoko," Honda Tooru wrote that he hated the idea of an eroge girl complementing the main character on his looks, because that ran counter to his real life suffering for being ugly; he wants her to like him for some other reason.

In other words, people like Honda, rather than wanting to imagine themselves are alpha males, instead want to imagine an entire world that's nice to beta males for no apparent reason.

>> No.2912833

I watch porn videos for the good plots.

>> No.2912834

>>2912824
Why can't we have both? It doesn't even need to be a long scene. Maybe 7 to 9 lines accompanied by a HCG. An intermission of sorts.

>> No.2912835

>>2912821
Maybe they could have went a bit more in detail with them having sex rather than simply "That night we made love for the first time.", but it would really suck if the entire VN was loaded with sex scenes for every heroine.

>> No.2912844

I don't see anything wrong with sex scenes if there's only one or two. More than that just makes it seem like pure hentai, though.

>> No.2912849

>something clearly made to cash in on the craze
A cash-in isn't a problem if it's well done.
How exactly is something "clearly" a cash-in?

>> No.2912851

>>2912823
I don't agree, if the show manage to keep me entertained (no matter what genre it is or for what purpose it was created) I would say that it has been good. And isn't that really the point? To make the viewer entertained.

And there are probably as many different opinions as to what is entertaining as there are people on earth. That's why I'm saying that character development isn't a global opinion, it is probably shared by many but not all.

>> No.2912859

>>2912756

LOGH is my favorite show period. But it's still nice to indulge in moe moe shit like K-on! or Haruhi. It's damn tiring to watch deep and epic shows like that. You can't just skip to the action scenes like this one kid I know(Fuck I hate it whenever he asks me what's going on because he skips around) and you have to watch EVERYTHING. So watching some slice of life like Aria or something is a nice break.

>> No.2912861

So wait. If you claim to not care about the story in an eroge, why is it that you'd bother to waste hours of your time reading it instead of finding some other form of aid or downloading the HCG set?

>> No.2912864

>>2912859
I could understand skipping past the action scenes, but to them?

>> No.2912868

>>2912823
>VNs.....sluts

I don't follow you here.
a. I was under the impression that we were discussing K-on and moe shows in general, not VNs
b. I look down on "normalfags" who think their lifestyle is the correct one, because they're caught up in the roles society has defined, rather than determining and being comfortable with their own lifestyle for themselves. Liking sluts really has little to do with it.

>> No.2912872

>>2912849

Comedy has to be funny and interesting to be well done. Lucky Star and K-On were staler than a month-old loaf of bread in my opinion.

>> No.2912873

Okay, maybe I don't understand what a visual novel is. It's a game where you click on the screen and text and shit comes up and you can see the characters and you often take the perspective of the main character, right? And this ALWAYS has to be a game about sex or sexual relationships?

>> No.2912875

>>2912849
When it's apparent they didn't put any effort into making it. In the case of K-on this would be things like excessively reusing playing animations or finding an excuse for the characters to do anything except performing.

For the genre as a whole, this would be things like having your characters talk about food for 10 minutes or making all of the humor in your show of the mindless WHY IS SHE SUCH A BAKA SO RANDUM XDDD variety.

>> No.2912881

>>2912861
What? I doubt anyone would claim to not care about the story. If anything, it's the story/circumstances that make the sex better. Also, for some eroge, there's voice acting that could be used to enhance the scene as well. HCG, alone, can't capture that.

>> No.2912882

>>2912826
I think everyone to some degree wants to imagine themself as the hero of a VN, but the problem is the main character tends to be more pathetic than even the average person. I can't imagine the average person(the ones that browse here) taking 14 hours worth of text to realize and take action towards making one of the five or more girls desperate to become your attention into your waifu.
And then when it comes to all that save the world shit, who the fuck wouldn't go out and fight, even if just for the fun of it? But with these protagonists, all they ever seem to do is sit around and wollow over how their life is so pointless and how they aren't really good enough to take on the task of being the hero they're supposed to be.

>> No.2912898

>>2912875
>finding an excuse for the characters to do anything except performing.
What? Did you watch it with the expectation that it'd be performing all the time? Granted, I haven't read much of the 4koma, but from what I've read, the light music is merely a backdrop for everything else. It's not very likely for there to be a 180 in the adaptation.

>> No.2912903

>>2912882
The protagonists I hate the most are the ones who complain about random waifus falling on them and wanting to go back to their "regular life"

FUCK

>> No.2912913

I agree that the emphasis on sex and relationships in most VNs pretty stale by now. Something different would be nice.

I think VNs about stories occurring in other countries, sort of like a travelogue or travel adventures, or just plain /x/ style creepy stories, can be pretty good too.
I wonder if the /jp/ project team would consider these as suggestions.

>> No.2912914

>>2912873
In theory, VNs can be about anything.
In practice, with a few special exceptions, they're about fantasy romance experiences.
So some people were ranting about ignorant foreigners expecting them to be about something else.

>> No.2912923

>>2912898

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was just sore about K-On because I wanted an actual music series about writing music and playing music and I got Lucky Star with guitars. I don't really care if other people like it, though. Taste is taste.

>> No.2912925

>>2912851
>I don't agree, if the show manage to keep me entertained (no matter what genre it is or for what purpose it was created) I would say that it has been good. And isn't that really the point? To make the viewer entertained.

This is what /a/ really thinks, which is no suprise given their love of CODEGEASSCODEGEASS. Enjoy your "entertaining" amalgamation of deus ex machina, plot armor and contived coincidence.

>>2912868
>I look down on "normalfags" who think their lifestyle is the correct one

Do you think your lifestyle is the correct one?

>because they're caught up in the roles society has defined, rather than determining and being comfortable with their own lifestyle for themselves

Have you not considered that just as they don't see the mental bonds they've placed on themselves, you might not see the ones you've placed on you? Somehow, I don't think that being an obese, unemployed and unshaven consumer of Japanese popular culture is exactly the definition of free-thinking bohemianism myself, but I might just be imagining things.

>> No.2912940

>>2912923

Same. I wanted more instrument brand and model whoring too. They mentioned Yui had a Les Paul like once. Fuck I wanted to see a Eddie van Halen double guitar. Or maybe throw out some pedals to show off. But that's just me. At least Azunyan made me HNNNNNNNNNNNNNGH so it wasn't too bad.

>> No.2912948

>>2912881
So then is it too much to ask that they put some effort into making a decent story? I'm not even speaking in the sense of "publishable book level;" if they can come up with a Nasu level plot (something any high schooler with intelligence and creativity could accomplish), it would serve to enhance the experience, would it not?

>> No.2912952

>>2912875
>to do anything except performing.
It seems your grudge is less against moe shows and more against slice-of-life.
You're damning a genre because you don't like the mechanics of the genre, which is a bit like railing against sci-fi because it doesn't follow the scientific method.
Music clubs don't perform every day, and if the show was 13 episodes of them performing, it wouldn't really be slice-of-life.
>effort into making it.
There may be little effort in the WRITING, but that's nowhere near the whole aspect of the show. The animations are smooth, facial expressions are pretty sharp, and the voice acting is fantastic.
A shovelware cash-in video game usually ends up being dubbed such because it doesn't excel in any particular category in general, and particularly doesn't excel in the selling points it cashes in on.
If K-on's cash-in is the moe craze, I'd say it does a pretty fine job; it does moe very very well.

>> No.2912961

>>2911238
The thread should have been over with this post.

>> No.2912966
File: 49 KB, 640x480, 1245190586797.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2912966

>> No.2912971

>>2912923
A simple look at the source material could have saved you the disappointment.

>> No.2912987

>>2912948
>if they can come up with a Nasu level plot (something any high schooler with intelligence and creativity could accomplish), it would serve to enhance the experience, would it not?
No because romance/drama games don't need plots with action and power levels. You seem to think that simple stories can't be good. That's not the case, especially when it comes to romance.

>> No.2912988

>>2912952
no wonder moe things never interested me...
thanks for the clarification. I will only use moe for... meaningless things, from now on.

>> No.2912989

>>2912923
>I don't really care if other people like it, though
Judging by your other posts in this thread, apparently you do.

Way to fucking lie your ass off, you no-good son of a bitch.

>> No.2912991

>>2912925
>Do you think your lifestyle is the correct one?
I think it's correct for me. In the very least, I'm comfortable with it.

You're trying too hard to put words in my mouth; I bear no grudge against anybody who minds their own business. I also don't begrudge the "normalfag" lifestyle. The ones I despise are the ones that have the nerve to look down on me because I'm not interested in women, or because I don't aim for a career.

I understand my bonds, why I am the way I am. The people I despise are the ones the don't understand themselves.

>> No.2912992

>>2912971

Then I would have been disappointed by a 4-koma that I thought would be about music but really wasn't.

This whole thread is pointless anyway, isn't it? I'm going to bed.

>> No.2913006

>>2912992
Well I'm not really sure why you would expect a 4koma to be about music in the first place.

>> No.2913009

>>2912948
Well, you're an odd one. You're basically complaining about the fact that a series wasn't completely changed to suit your tastes.

"Eeh? Why on Earth did they not change Little Bo Peep into a post-apocalyptic magical steampunk?" Now, I like those things, but it'd be quite silly if I cried murder every time someone makes something that's not a post-apocalyptic magical steampunk.

>>2912940
One Mio is more than enough!

>> No.2913012

>>2912989

Hey bro, how can you tell which posts I made? I didn't write any of the long-ass ones about K-On or moe or any of that.

>> No.2913013

>>2912952
>It seems your grudge is less against moe shows and more against slice-of-life.
You're damning a genre because you don't like the mechanics of the genre, which is a bit like railing against sci-fi because it doesn't follow the scientific method.

This is a good observation and it's given me something to think about. Thanks.

>There may be little effort in the WRITING, but that's nowhere near the whole aspect of the show. The animations are smooth, facial expressions are pretty sharp, and the voice acting is fantastic. A shovelware cash-in video game usually ends up being dubbed such because it doesn't excel in any particular category in general, and particularly doesn't excel in the selling points it cashes in on.
If K-on's cash-in is the moe craze, I'd say it does a pretty fine job; it does moe very very well.

Let me clarify on this point. The reason why I say it's a cash-in is because although it might have been "good" in terms of some of the technical aspects you mentioned, it's neither one of the best executed or the most creatively executed examples of its (admittedly limited in scope) genre. In pretty much every way, I found it to follow the formula created by Azumanga Daioh to a T, which is part of the reason why I dislike it. This isn't because I dislike Azumanga
Daioh, but rather because if I wanted to see the best example of Azumanga Daioh type shows, I'd watch Azumanga Daioh, not K-on.

Had K-on attempted to be a little bit bolder and struck into slightly unfamiliar territory rather than being Lucky Star with guitars, I'd likely have a better opinion of it.

>> No.2913030

>>2913009
>One Mio is more than enough!
Yeah, I didn't quite get the addition of Azunyan, seeing as how she never stood out much, character-wise. I was expecting heavier lesbian overtones when they brought her in, and I didn't quite get it.
I was a little disappointed.

>> No.2913039

>>2913009
>>2912987
Let me clarify. Nasu level plot =/= MOLLUSKS or POWERLEVELS. By that descriptor, I mean a story with rising action, climax and falling action rather than exposition -> filler -> more filler -> conclusion. In other words, I'd like most of the events in the story to result in character development.

And with regards to romance, I'd like to see something other than the same old "selfish, lazy loser is handed a supermodel who's attracted to him in spite of a total lack of effort or redeeming qualities" plot with which we're perpetually bombarded.

>> No.2913077

>>2913013
>Had K-on attempted to be a little bit bolder and struck into slightly unfamiliar territory rather than being Lucky Star with guitars, I'd likely have a better opinion of it.

I can live with that.

I ended up liking it more because it was Azumanga Daioh lite; not everyone can pull off that style of humor, so I think it's a good thing if they don't try too hard. It toned down the slapstick, and upped the art quality.

While the characterizations were indeed Azumanga Daioh to a T, it was interesting to see how they played out in a slightly more "realistic," less ridiculous world.

Frankly though, I've never watched Lucky Star, because the character designs weren't that appealing to me (and the fandom was.....well we all know what fandom is like). Because of this, I really don't have a good grasp of what it means when it's being compared to something.

>> No.2913095

>>2913039
>I mean a story with rising action, climax and falling action
Plenty of school life romances have this. I would say most do.

>I'd like to see something other than the same old "selfish, lazy loser is handed a supermodel who's attracted to him in spite of a total lack of effort or redeeming qualities" plot with which we're perpetually bombarded.
Plenty of school life romances don't have this.

Also I can't help but think that your definition of "filler" is "a scene I didn't like" because filler doesn't come up often in visual novels. Scenes that don't further the plot aren't necessarily filler because they often still develop the characters and their relationships.

>> No.2913102

>>2913012
Do I really need to emphasize on all the samefag trolling in this thread?

>> No.2913136

>>2913102

I guess not. It's times like this I wish I used a tripcode to mark my posts, but then I realize I don't want to be a shithead attention whore like most of those posters.

>> No.2913219

>>2912664
it doesnt mean its intended for you
ranma was heavily enjoyed by women in highschool, it was intended for gradeschool and junior high school boys

>> No.2913229

>"the game would have been fine without h-scenes".
I think the reviewers DO NOT GET THE POINT of eroge at all.

>> No.2913237

>>2912654
Pheonix Wright is a mainstream VN in the west though some argue it is a modern adventure game

>> No.2913248

>>2911236
because they're fucking stupid.

people have said "no need for erotic content/overtones" in james bond, godfather, etc

and theres not other conclusion that they're just fucking stupid.

>> No.2913260

>>2913237
No one in japan considers Phoenix Wright a visual novel.

they consider it an "Adventure game" (ADV)

i blame VNDB for putting shit like "Persona 3" and fucking Nocturne as "visual novels" due to "dating sim elements"

its like saying a Tv is actually a radio because it has characteristics of a radio.

no, it's still a fucking TV, things can share characteristics, its the differences - not similarities, that define things.

>> No.2913268

>>2913260

What is Japans favorite LucasArts Adventure game? I bet it's Grim Fandango, is it Grim Fandango?

>> No.2913275

It's because Americans are afraid of sexuality, even those who say they aren't fundies about sex secretly think sex is dirty and uncouth by saying things like "the game would have been fine without h-scenes".

If you are a young adult then sex shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable, even if you're a virgin you still had sex ed.

>> No.2913303

>>http://www.tsukuru.info/tlwiki/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Busters!

sample of the comments

>The main addition: ecchi. Now this pissed me off; Not that I didn't have them in my game, but that they would ruin a brilliant game with smut.

>I have no doubt that weird people who want to whack off would pirate/illegally download the game.

>It sickens me to think that people will just blindly read this game then chuck it away. And that's what I believe will happen... especially if LB!-EX is translated.

>> No.2913306

>>2913260
Technically most of what we call "visual novels" are ADV.

>> No.2913326

poster of
>>2913303

now, this is a fairly good example of some of the delusions and premature conclusions that people have about eroge/sexual content

if you think about it, most of the problems outlined will happen, with or without erotic content, with erotic content having perhaps only a marginal effect.

how many pirate versions are there of clannad? certainly more than "super cum dumpsters adveunture 7" that's for sure

as for "blinding reading", no one is going to buy little busters to EXCLUSIVELY fap at the erotic content, there's much better stuff out there.
they will buy it for the story, with erotic content as a bonus.

it's like thinking adding chips to a plate of steak will cause people to forget the steak and only eat the chips.

no, they'll eat and appreciate both.

>> No.2913338

>"visual novels" due to "dating sim elements"
That's like filing an Old West book with the country music because they share hats.

>> No.2913342

>>2913306
Not "technically", they are adv's, as you said, we have simply mislabeled them, and rather say "hold on a minute, these are actually advs" most people in the western side of things prefered to say "fuck it, we're calling these things visual novels too"

>> No.2913360

>>2913342
Blame Japan that they stubbornly keep calling them adventure games despite having long long long ago lost any semblance of being adventure games.

>> No.2913361

>>2913338
i dont entirely agree with your analogy.

but yeah, a miscategorisation which the people at VNDB stand by.

"the discussion between what is an ADV and what is a VN will go on forever, therefore topic closed"

is more or less what they do.

how hard can it be to define the difference between an ADV and visual novel? a visual novel you can save to a permanent file at any time, an ADV you can't (eg temp saves).

ADVs generally have other features for story progression besides clicking and picking a choice.

>> No.2913368

>>2913361
>a visual novel you can save to a permanent file at any time, an ADV you can't (eg temp saves).
What the fuck are you saying here?

>> No.2913379

>>2913361
>ADVs generally have other features for story progression besides clicking and picking a choice.
What? No they don't. The vast majority of ADVs are just your standard click-choice-click-choice-click-click-choice.

>> No.2913397

>>2913360
yeah because genre's must be the same internationally AMIRITE? and its not like genres can evolve too.

fuck, chess

>> No.2913410

>>2913397
>yeah because genres must be the same internationally AMIRITE?
Did you just defeat your own point?

>> No.2913416

people just don't understand Japan.

>> No.2913417

>>2913368
give examples, find me a visual novel where you can't save at any time...i assure you, any examples that you give are actually ADVs (eg have RPG elements, battles, or only have temp-saving)
>>2913379
give examples, when i say choice, i dont mean "hmm...should i put these points in STR?" but "genuflect" or "dont genuflect"

>> No.2913422

>>2913410
i didnt post that. im >>2913342

>> No.2913438

>>2913397
yeah fuck chess...

>> No.2913453

A VN is basically an "on-rails" ADV.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, Phoenix Wright got frustrating as hell when you had to go back and forth looking for ONE THING you might've missed that you need to progress the plot.

>> No.2913467

>>2913453
Walkthrough bro.

>> No.2913472

>>2913417
>give examples, when i say choice, i dont mean "hmm...should i put these points in STR?" but "genuflect" or "dont genuflect"
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=24830
>ジャンル 恋愛ADV

>> No.2913484

>>2913467
Games aren't meant to be played with walkthroughs. If you need a walkthrough, you're either a bad player, or it's a bad game.

Personally I thought Phoenix Wright 1 (first four cases) was designed very well and didn't need a walkthrough, but Rise from the Ashes and the sequels were all bullshit.

>> No.2913485

>>2913467
Cheating, bro.

>> No.2913507

>>2913472
Thats one example, but i said generally, one or two dont actually constitute "ADVs = VN"

just like how penguins and emus dont absolve the statement of "birds can fly"

>> No.2913524

Hint: Japanese never get the genres right.

>> No.2913554

>>2913507
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=36101
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=524405
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=297025
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=534525
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=386146
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=588585
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=523505
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=634985
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=395525
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=388485
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=256785
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=375925
http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=408125

>> No.2913560

>>2913507
Well, that depends on if you're intending for the statement that "Birds can fly" to be a deductive conclusion.

Because if it's a deductive conclusion, then one counterexample is enough to make the argument invalid.

If it's something like "More than likely, all birds can fly" then it works.

>> No.2913563

>>2913484
I guess you just suck, really.

>> No.2913711

>>2913524
They considered harry potter horror...so yeah i'd have to agree with you on that

>> No.2913961

>>2912756
>Are you seriously trying to say that you think that liking moe makes you superior to people who like shonen?

Yeah.
Moe are at least generally filled with happy people.

Shounen are filled with a bunch of emo kids or people who used to be ones.

I think it is quite clear which is superior.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action