/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I just finished Episode 3 of Umineko, but one thing is bothering me. Wasn't solving the epitaph supposed to end the killings?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

The epitaph never said anything about stopping the killings. It only says what will happen (everyone dies) and what the rewards are (which Ange inherited).

[Anonymous No.]

The actual letter does promise it though.
It also promises it will return all the interest already taken.

[Anonymous No.]

Eva only found the gold, she didn't necessarily solve the epitaph.

[Anonymous No.]

It was, but Eva-Beatrice said that she needed to continue the killings to complete the ceremony for her to become a witch.

If Eva hadn't become a witch, then the killings would have stopped.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910542
A fake win. Turns out gold is lead, try again next time?
or battler never saw her win, so she didn't?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910543
But the first twilight would have to have been revived as promised, and then EVA can continue how ever she likes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910548
I'm going with the former. The gold is probably a bluff by Kinzo, so the epitaph doesn't have anything to do with it.

[Anonymous No.]

I think this ceremony will only end when Battler beats Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910551
But she still would have to carry out the killings for the first twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

I have a few ideas. 1. The gold eva found was a false positive, she didn't really solve the epitaph or at most half solved it.
2. The killings will only stop should Battler himself solves the epitaph.
3. Beatrice kept her promise as she said in red and stopped killing people when the epitaph was solved, but another culprit possibly Eva continued them so Beatrice never lied.

[Anonymous No.]

Solving the epitaph should end the witch's ceremony.

But I think >>2910543 got the right answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910551
>But the first twilight would have to have been revived as promised
Uh, no, reviving is only said to happen in the golden land. If the epitaph is solved Beato's letter merely says she'll stop collecting the interests and the gold will be yours. No resurrection included.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910563
don't forget that if we're considering this from the not-a-witch point of view it's not even certain the whole thing about solving the epitaph to stop the killing isn't a lie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910602
Tatari had a pretty interesting theory about the epitaph the other day. He basically converted all the kana in 'Beatrice' into (loosely) equivilant kanji. The results came out something like 'shore' 'after' 'village' 'family'. Discarding 'shore' and 'village', the final kanji in 'Ushiromiya' can be interpreted as 'shrine'. Which he took to mean the gold was... under the torii that was...washed away... I just had a revelation. Gimme a minute here to put things together.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910739
I will be waiting for your theory

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2910739
Oh, this will be awesome, I can smell it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910739
You best be serious, nigger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910739
He disappeared

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910739
Apologies for derailing things OP. Gonna spoiler tag since this regards events in Episode 4. It has been speculated by some that Battler's 'sin' might have been causing the epitaph to be unsolvable. And there has been a growing belief that this sin may have been against Shannon, causing her to roleplay 'Beatrice' and carry out the sacrifices etc. And at the start of Episode 2, Shannon is shown to have caused, by some means, the destruction of the torii...

So let's put this all together. 6 years ago Battler, mildly crushing on Shannon, makes some silly vow to sweep her away. He doesn't keep it. Shannon is cushed, and at some point, 'Beatrice', whether she is real or a figment of her own imagination, puts it in Shannon's head that for her new relationship with George to work, she needs to get rid of the wards in the torii, and she ends up wrecking it. With the epitaph's solution now out of reach, the siblings can't find the gold and things end up as they are...

[Anonymous No.]

I just finished Episode 4 of Umineko, but one thing is bothering me. Where is Umineko Daybreak?

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2910879
Well, fuck. Any ideas as to what his theory could have been? The epitath is unsolvable about Shannon fucked aro--

... fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

inb4 it's somewhere in the Chapel

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910883
I'll need to copypaste this, I haven't played game 4 yet lol

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2910883
>>2910885
This is really awkward. Even more so because I typo'd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910739
nice bullshit there.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

I disagree with the theories that Battler's sin involves Shannon. I mean, 6 years ago, she would have only been 10 years old. I can't imagine her not being able to get over some childish promise.

[Anonymous No.]

While I completely see and understand the suspicion that Shannon=Beatrice, what I'm growing increasingly confused about is how Beatrice and game piece Beatrice/Shannon can exist simultaneously, even if Jessica has a role in the murders.

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2910935
Do we ever see them together? No, more precisely, does Battler ever see them together? No? Then it never happened. That's the basic premise for this theory.

[Anonymous No.]

What I don't get about the epitaph is that Eva solved it using an atlas if I'm remembering correctly after getting a hint about the difference between 黄金郷 and 黄金の郷 from Rosa. Apart from the fact I don't see a reason why you would need an atlas if you're searching on a small island I also don't see the relevance of that の, it might be so certain lines in the epitaph line up and can be read vertically or because that specific 郷 is read differently.

But yeah, I think it's in the chapel too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910929
Shannon has petty much been the property of the Ushiromiya family for her entire life. And she doesn't exactly have a lot of social contacts. Or friends, aside from Jessica. Or a family, aside from her fellow orphans.

And there is something differentiating her from Kanon and all the other servants. None of the other servants were hired at the age of 6- they don't get hired until they graduate from middle school. So what gives with Shannon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910929
We're talking about a series which previously featured a generally nice, mild mannered girl go completely insane and torture her family/friends to death because one of said friends gave a doll to the wrong person. It's more than possible that Battler's sin is something quite trivial.

The problem with the theory presented though is that as Bernkastel has said, anything which took place before October 4th will be the same in every game and as such is considered part of the board itself and can't be altered. Which means that not only does Battler's sin always occur, but it also then can't be rectified.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2910942
Sure battler doesn't see them together. But the guy pretty much never sees anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910942
Actually, you can only trust what is stated in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910888
BUT THERE IS CROSS IN MARIA'S NAME WOLOLOLOL

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2910989
I've never played Higurashi or seen it so I can't say anything about that, but to me, Battler's sin I thought would have something more to do with Asumu not being his mom and stuff, than a promise to Shannon as a kid.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911005
Forgot spoiler tags sorry.

[Anonymous No.]

Stop spamming your shitty board on the best site:

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>poyhgbh oii n mhdmdn nsf

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911005
Battler's sin, according to Beatrice at least, was in some way related to Rokkenjima. She even got pretty pissed when Battler's train of thought went to the events after his mother's death.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do you guys still think that you can trust whatever game piece Battler sees?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911005
Piece-Beatrice said she didn't give a shit about his immediate family, so theories concerning Asumu are out.

As for me, I think Battler giving stupid valiant promises when he was a kid is probably crucial to the sin, but against Shannon? No way. People need to take into account that *someone* has to remember this trait of Battler to get the hint across, if Battler himself doesn't remember clear, which is a plot point. In short, Shannon remembered because she had to, narratively, not because it was OMG A CRIME AGAINST HERRRR. Piece-Beato's reaction to Battler not remembering versus Shannon's is too way far apart for it to be plausible, especially since a lot of the Shannon=Beatrice theories involve her being so crushed after Battler doesn't remember in 4 that she commits suicide.

[Anonymous No.]

Since seems to be the most active Umineko thread, would this count as proof that Kanon =/= Shannon
(EP4) Battler found Shannons body from the first twilight incident, and it is confirmed in red that Kanon died as the ninth person
Also, here's the Tatari-thing that some Anon mentioned

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

I don't know anything I guess.
I just hope in episode 5, before the first twilight, battler has a chat with Kanon and Shannon at the same time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911005
you missed quite something, but I don't think it's the case in Umineko really.

Extreme paranoia and "harmless" people suddenly becoming exceedingly violent was a main story point in Higurashi, but it'd be rather cheap if he'd use that same "card" again this time.

So long Rokkenjima Syndrome

[Anonymous No.]

Stop spamming your shitty board on the best site:

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>nf gm hjd f

[Anonymous No.]

Battler's sin is obviously something that has to do with his family, and how he neglected them for 6 years without asking for the true reasons of his father's immediate wedding with Kyrie.

Also, I think this part is very important.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911043
Are you referring to Shannon and Kanon's deaths in Episode 4? Because Shannon didn't die in the first twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911068
I'm dying to see an explanation for this in the answer arcs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911068
Why does everyone keep forgetting the part where Beatrice goes, "I don't give a fucking about your immediate family. Your sin has nothing to do with that. Your sin happened here, on this island."

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911069
Yeah, I was.
Seems like I'm throwing shit from different episodes together, pardon me.
But still, even if she died at a different twilight, the argument should still be valid

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911080
Beatrice is a huge troll.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911027
Because he's epic... nah, because he's the prota

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>2911112

>EPIC

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911043
Fucking solved.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911084
Well technically, I believe Beatrice only confirms that Kanon is dead, not that he was a victim of any twilight, not to mention Battler never finds his body.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911121

Shit was SO hidden

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911126
Sorry my bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911126
He wouldn't need to die from a twilight, as long as he's the ninth person to die. Shannon dies before Kanon,
I sadly can't recall the number of deaths before him, but you'd just have to count all of the deaths with and without Shannon to see if you get the number nine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911086
Yeah, because she has such a plausible reason to throw out fake hints to Battler during that sequence, given her reaction when he fails it, right?

The sin has nothing to do with his family, ie, nothing to do with Asumu. Beatrice was pissed and disappointed when Battler started ranting about, his dad, and Kyrie. It's something else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911043
We don't know what order in which people died. even the witch's game record in all other episodes but missing from episode 4 only tells which twilight of which the victims are a part and not when they actually died.

Shannon could have actually died last and we'd never know. Assuming Shannon =/= Kanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911126
She states in red that 'Kanon was the first in Kyrie's group to die. In short, he was the 9th victim.' Truth be told, Kanon and George's deaths are the ONLY ones that we can at least partially verify timewise. Battler never confirmed anyone else's death until after meeting 'Beatrice'. Though one might argue that Shannon's body was actually Kanon's and Shannon was dead since some time earlier.

[Anonymous No.]

Beatrice tells us what Battler's sin is. All it is is Battler forgetting something. That's why he can atone completely if he just remembers. If he did anything ridiculous like kill his mom, or supplant his mom with someone else, or there was a real Battler pissed at him for taking their place or whatever, I think "atonement" would involve a lot more than that and the "sin" would involve a lot more than just forgetting about it.

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911173
Yea I know. I just read it in the Tea Party after posting.

[Anonymous No.]

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

You still don't know what is the sin?
Then, that itself is your sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911166
Ah, I'm currently reading the tea party of Episode 4, but I just read that 'Kanon died as the ninth person'-thing and hoped that it would prove something.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler's sin is not accepting Jesus as his lord and savior.

[Arcueid Brunestud !ARCIkc4cG6 No.]

>>2911191

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911190
Well, it's just something to keep in mind, but even for the other games, we can't confirm the actual order in which people are murdered and we certainly can't trust the tips, given its placement of Kinzo. This might be one of the ways in which some of the closed rooms and whatnot could be solved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911191
Battler's sin was kill you with a small bomb, you don't diserve one.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler's sin is being too desirable

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911189
I saw another one of these poems for Umineko before. Where'd you find this one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911228
It's from Higurashi. Can't remember which chapter though, someone posted it on /jp/ before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911228
Higurashi

[Trollkastel !!YSTYW7Om7uL No.]

>>2911218

Love that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2910500
The killings didn't stop once Eva solved the epitaph because the witch and the ceremony do not exist. There is no ceremony to stop. The promise in the letter was made by a fictitious person and therefore holds no weight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911178
What's with the yellowish tint on the second screen? I've never seen anything like that in the game, yet I see it in screenshots all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911250
Protip : Scroll wheel up.

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2911250
Scroll your mousewheel up next time you play.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911232
>>2911233
No, it was for Umineko and I found them.

From "Bernkastel's Letter:"
Love is an illusion, a misunderstanding.
Mutual love is a mutual misunderstanding of being mutually loved.
And engagement is a vow to not wake up for your whole life from that misunderstanding.
-Ronove

And:

Many things were found from his room. From those evidences, it is possible to deduce that I am loved by you.

Many things were found from my room. From those evidences, it is possible to deduce that I also love you.

Nothing was found from her room. However, I can't deny the existence of an undiscovered evidence X of unfaithfulness.
-Frederica Bernkastel

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911218
Oh Beato, you card.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911260
>>2911257
I don't have a mouse wheel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911279
Use the arrows < and >

[Anonymous No.]

Now, all of you consider the riddles presented in >>2911261 in the context of this excerpt of Ryuukishi's interview.

>"I think Beatrice is easy with Battler, because she tries to talk to him. If she really had a strong will to accomplish the serial murder, she wouldn't play the game with Battler. Why is she easy? What does she want to do? It's time to think about it, by turning the chessboard. When you finished EP1, 'the culprit' just seemed to want to kill everyone, so you couldn't find almost anything even if you turned the chessboard. But now it isn't. I'm not mean too much, so you can find the outline of 'something' when you see the world-view of the story. For example, I haven't hidden settings such as 'George and Shannon aren't lovers, and they are cold-blooded people who try to get the wealth of Umishiromiya family'.You can get the answer from the world-view you have ever seen.........maybe. Hihihi."

And some more food for thought. Why have George and Shannon never been the victims of the second twilight, in spite of being the most obvious pair for it? Whether you're anti-fantasy or anti-mystery, the killer is attempting to follow the epitaph to make the killings seem occult and the fact that the most obvious choice has been overlooked 4 times in a row seems strange.[/spoiiler]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911288
They're never together

[Anonymous No.]

On a slightly different note, about Episode 3. 07151129. Now, those who played Ep 4 know what that number is. But I had been wondering if there any further significance to the number, when I read them upside down by mistake. Now, depending on the manner in which you write them, inverted 2s and 5s still look like a 2 or a 5 if you read them upside down.

621151L0. It is probably a total coincidence, but the numbers caught my eye. There are 6 sacrifices, 2 that are torn apart, 5 stakings, 0 left alive... I didn't get much further than that, but maybe someone else has some ideas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911393
07151129 --> 15 July - 29 November
Is there anything about those days?

[Sakura !!sCKns1iPkwx No.]

>>2911436
It's the day of Battler's sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911436
The first numbers are Battler's birthday

[Anonymous No.]

I'm rather convinced Battler's sin is forgetting "who" Beatrice is.

Think of it this way. Beatrice's goal is to get Battler to acknowledge her "existence" while Battler's goal is to deny her. After episode 4 where Battler forgets, Beatrice suddenly realizes that there's no way for her to win (aka there's no way for Battler to acknowledge her). At this point, Beatrice seems to rather die than to continue the game. Meaning that Battler acknowledging her was so important that her life as a witch is not worth living if Battler doesn't accept her, not as a witch, but as an existence.

That still leaves us to the biggest question of who Beatrice really is, and why she cares so much that Battler acknowledges her. I agree along the lines what >>2910883 said, in that Battler met whoever Beatrice really is 6 years ago, and she took to heart something he said that he forgot about. I'm don't quite agree that it's Shanon who became Beatrice, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911517
Geez I made a lot of typos in that, I really should go to bed.

Well it's still readable anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911517
Beato = Ange suffering Hinamizawa syndrome

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911517
I agree with this. I also agree that it's not Shannon. I don't think it's Jessica, either. People seem to be making that jump simply because Shannon and Jessica happened to be present in the conversation where Battler's old habits came up, which seems to be an extremely weak link to me and doesn't match the characterization of piece-Beatrice at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911517
Maybe it's another strategy, like in the Episode 3; we're not sure if she is really giving up or if she's taking Battler intro a trap. Maybe Ryu want this, want you to think that the sin is related with beatrice, but she said in red "The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice." so the sin isn't related with her...
Oh man, I've mindfucked myself...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911594
Battler said "Is the sin between you and me?" and Beatrice carefully rewords it to, "The sin is not between Battler and Beatrice."

Beatrice is a title. We know that Beatrice was not always her name. She dodged the red with semantics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911607
Oh shit, you're right. Good point.
There's another thing that's disturbing me: Ange said in red ".........My entire family...never came home from Rokkenjima that day...!!". Eva returned... so why did she say "My entire family"?
This is making my brain boil...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911594
She also said Beatrice did not exist. Beatrice is a persona created by someone else. If it's between Battler and that person, then it's not between Battler and Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911624
Immediate family, idiot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911632
How can you be so sure? We're talking about red truth after all

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911651
What the hell are you suggesting, Eva came back as a zombie or something? Come on, this isn't that hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911659
Maybe she didn't come...

[Anonymous No.]

I can't believe I haven't read anyone bring this up before seriously

The sin that Beato says that Battler has is obviously the fact that he is forgetting. She also wants him to acknowledge who she is and that's what this entire game is about.

Think about it. What is the one thing that Battler also can't remember properly?

He can't remember who his mother is.

Beatrice is Battler's mother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911985
Then who was dad?

[Fredrica Bernkastel No.]

>>2911985
Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

You still don't know what is the sin?
Then, that itself is your sin.

[None !uguu9XL2kw No.]

>>2912025
Oh how interesting. He's using Fred Bern's poems as Umineko plots.

[Hiroyuki !w6Optpc/jk No.]

>>2912023
Wasn't it said in red that Rudolf was his father?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2911985
I thought what he's forgetting is directly related to Rokenjima?

[Allycat No.]

*quote*Anonymous Mon Jul 6 18:27:01 2009 No.2910983
What I don't get about the epitaph is that Eva solved it using an atlas if I'm remembering correctly after getting a hint about the difference between 黄金郷 and 黄金の郷 from Rosa. Apart from the fact I don't see a reason why you would need an atlas if you're searching on a small island I also don't see the relevance of that の, it might be so certain lines in the epitaph line up and can be read vertically or because that specific 郷 is read differently.

But yeah, I think it's in the chapel too.**

thank you so much i dont have the game cus i have vista which is shit (doesnt allow game) but i love the story so much that i scrounge for whatever peices anyone would care to share, i translated those two words,
黄金郷 is el dorado and 黄金の郷 is village of god, this hint must have told eva what she was doing wrong perhaps? ohh anyone else have any speculation on how eva found the place, i doubt its chapel tho :/

[Allycat No.]

maybe its that he crushed marias dream of becoming a witch (she wanted to be witch ever since beatrice gave her a bit of happiness in her dream) battler said who would beleive is a witch... either that or battler was the one who destroyed the shrine on top of the rock... in order to stop something... and forgot all about it

[Anonymous Jones !TapsqdZp4A No.]

Thanks for the passwords OP!!
(:

[Allycat No.]

the second anime episode is out... the scene at end where they find bodies in the storage.... delicious

[Anonymous No.]

>>2912063,4
Slowpoke

[Allycat No.]

and the oh so smart meaning behind that is....

[Allycat No.]

unfortunately they cut out so much things that are in the game and even are in the new manga D: