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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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2802190 No.2802190 [Reply] [Original]

A friend of mine is saying he wants to solve Umineko's mystery while being neutral.

I'm saying he's talking bullshit: you are either anti-mystery or anti-fantasy.

Who's right?

>> No.2802201

You can't, as you're not looking at any part of the mystery.

You at least have to view scenes from a perspective of "the perpetrator is magical" or "the perpetrator is human".

>> No.2802203

Neutral would be "magic exists outside of the gameboard", right? That doesn't seem too bad, but if he's trying to solve the on-the-island mystery with both, he's doing it wrong.

>> No.2802211
File: 22 KB, 147x125, Skub.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802211

A friend of mine says he wants to probe Skub's properties while being neutral.

I'm saying he's talking bullshit: you are either anti-skub, or anti-life.

Who's right?

>> No.2802210

>>2802190

I've never ruled out possession as a motive. It's been basically proven no 'magic' is happening, but that's not to say that people aren't inspired to commit these murders by magical means. I mean, 'who gives Maria the letters' basically says 'who would Maria trust to "be" Beatrice?' If you don't suspect someone as being a good liar (or a not so good liar, Maria's not exactly smart for this stuff), then someone is possessed. The nature of that possession is completely questionable though. Wee.

>> No.2802215

What's he mean? Witches do exist, but were not the cause of the Rokkenjima murders?

>> No.2802220
File: 169 KB, 481x354, airmaster is not amused.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802220

>but if he's trying to solve the on-the-island mystery with both, he's doing it wrong.

He corrected me, apparently.

What he's actually saying is that this mystery is able to be solved from both sides, and that is simply not the case.

I'm going to have a heart attack from all this stress right now. Fuckin' newbie.

>> No.2802224 [DELETED] 

OP here. I found a far superior site: http://www.UnonTalk.com/ (Unon = Anon)

kgshdggokgjnn

>> No.2802233

>>2802211
Anti-skub scum detected.

>> No.2802246

>>2802220
>What he's actually saying is that this mystery is able to be solved from both sides
Your friend's just being indecisive. Being anti-mystery doesn't mean that you can solve the mystery with magic, it means that there is no mystery since there's no secret behind the events.

>> No.2802272

>>2802220

... Well, you can buy what Beatrice says, and think 'oh hey magic deaths', since obviously it's possible because it's fucking magic.

Or you can think anti-fantasy and think of how people could've done it.

So either your friend is saying basically nothing with a 'they're both possible', or is saying something impossible. Congratulations, either way he's lost.

>> No.2802285

>>2802246
There was something else he told me.

While we were discussing the point of the magic circles (and from here I somehow have a memory gap) I mention that Beatrice would have no need for magic circles in order to kill, say, Eva and Hideyoshi.

He says that, while Maria is Beatrice's "messenger," she could have set the circle there simply to cause confusion. But Maria was not there to make the circle; she was with everybody else, and if she had left, Battler or someone else would have noticed, and then see her come back at five minutes, the time slot for said circle to appear.

>> No.2802298

>>2802220

>What he's actually saying is that this mystery is able to be solved from both sides, and that is simply not the case.

It can be, but it can only be RESOLVED one-way or the other.

As Virgilia said in Ep 3, the island is in a quantum superposition. Both magic is the cause, and magic does not exist. Only until it is resolved does one collapse and the other remain.

>> No.2802324

Kinzo is Battler.

>> No.2802362
File: 19 KB, 239x275, kinzo shocked face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802362

>>2802324

>> No.2802385

fuck.

If you're taking a neutral stance you're what? Pro-magical mystery?

>> No.2802403
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2802403

>>2802385
He says, it's just a story. You can take one side and crush the other, and then start over and do the same with the other side.

>> No.2802427

To be neutral would be take in all the evidence and use it to determine what happened. If that evidence shows concretely that it couldn't be done without magic, so be it.

>> No.2802454

>>2802403
I don't think your friend knows what neutral means.

>> No.2802470

He can stay neutral to try and solve the truth, like Ange said in episode 4. You need to look at things from all different directions to unravel the mystery.

>> No.2802484

>>2802403
what.

no.

There is going to be only one solution at the end of this, and the other side will be dismissed.

Unless we end it with neither side succeeding and it'll turn out ALIENS DID IT.

>> No.2802486

Neutral is not solving the mystery.
Neutral is letting the mystery solve itself.

>> No.2802501

You either side with the witch or you side with Battler.

There's no neutral ground, unless you side with Lambdadelta, but that's pretty much anti-mystery.

>> No.2802521

>>2802501
Or you can side with no one and not actually care about the game.

>> No.2802524

Would anybody be pissed if we get a magic ending?

>> No.2802525
File: 490 KB, 160x120, facepalm.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802525

I showed him the page for the Red Text on the Umineko wiki, and I told him that to solve the mystery, he has to regard the red text as proof.

He's asking, "How can I regard what Beatrice says as the truth if Beatrice supposedly does not exist?" I tell him that Battler is hearing this (and that Battler's POV is the only one to be trusted), but then he says that if Battler is hearing this, and he's so adamant in denying Beatrice's existence, then his view is butchered.

>> No.2802578 [DELETED] 

>>2802524
>>>/rs
/No,_because_Umineko_is_a_fantasy,_after_all.

>> No.2802610

>>2802525
Well that's pretty true.

>> No.2802639 [DELETED] 

OP here. I found a far superior site: http://www.UnonTalk.com/ (Unon = Anon)

hjjgfyhhghdfgiihhdfodghgydgffgffjoffyfjfgyjdg

>> No.2802646

>>2802610
I've always thought it was silly if magic didn't exist that there were undeniable truths.

Theres no such thing as an undeniable truth in reality, so it'd need to be magic for red text to do what it does.

>> No.2802709
File: 18 KB, 239x275, kinzo shocked face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802709

>>2802362
Fixed.

>> No.2802724

>>2802646
>Theres no such thing as an undeniable truth in reality

...Yes, there is. Whether one perceives it to be something else or not (or even history), whatever happened happened and no matter how history twists it, it always happened that way.

That was the whole fucking point of the 1998 stuff in Episode 4.

>> No.2802733

>>2802524
I would. At this point, I better get some really long and complex explanation, but ultimately is extremely simple and literally right under our noses, and makes me shit a cathedral.

For all this suspense to be simply blown away by "lol magic did it"...

>> No.2802798
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2802798

>>2802733
He did say that all of this -the circles, for example- was done just to cause confusion among the readers and misdirect them.

It could be under your noses, but it could also just be one huge bait and switch and so the true answer appears at the very end, even though it also appears at the very beginning.

In the end, I'd be cracking up. All that brain power for nothing! And all those headaches, FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUU

>> No.2802813

If this is a game between Beatrice and Batttler then either side can win if they move correctly. If the truth is that magic did it, then Battler has no chance to win to begin with, no?

>> No.2802831 [SPOILER] 
File: 425 KB, 642x480, rika and satoko go trick-or-treating.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2802831

>>2802813
The only problem is that Beatrice has absolutely no chance of winning, with absolute certainty. And a miracle definitely won't occur!

>> No.2802891

>>2802831
Beatice can win even rightnow. She can just fucking got bored, throw away the board after winning the current game. Erase Battler for good and be done with it.

>> No.2802902

>>2802891

Sir, I do believe you have not read Ep4.

>> No.2802928

>>2802902
still half way on 3. Anything huge changes?

>> No.2802940

>>2802928
Yep, I reccomend hiding all umineko threads for awhile.

>> No.2802945

>>2802928

Leave /jp/ until you finish 4.

>>2802813

Battler can still surrender and Beatrice can still give up.

>> No.2802947

>>2802928
Why the hell are you on here? Get out for your own sake.

>> No.2802955

>>2802945

Battler will never surrender.

Doing so would mean Ange's onii-chan will never return ;_;

>> No.2802966

>>2802928
Big changes. Like >>2802831
That's the big spoiler at the very end of Episode 4. A bit of a major spoiler, actually.
Beatrice has been guaranteed by Bern and 34 that she can not win, with 34 guaranteeing it with absolute certainty and Bern following up by saying Beato has no chance at a miracle. At all. The game either ends with Battler winning or it goes on forever. There is no way that Beatrice can win because Bern and 34 will simply gang up on her and help Battler.

So yeah, get out of this thread, close /jp/, and read the rest of Episode 3 and Episode 4.

>> No.2802974

>>2802966
I speculate that what follows is loli futa sex.

>> No.2802987

>>2802974
My friend is absolutely fine with this.

>> No.2802996

>>2802974
I'm already aroused.

>> No.2803149

>>2802974
http://www.mediafire.com/?mzm3yyyy3tm

>> No.2803172

>>2803149
Well, looks like the japanese are way ahead of me.

>> No.2803175

An 'A wizard did it' ending would be too cheap. It'll never happen.

>> No.2803187

>>2802966
You know, even though it was said in red, this really makes me wonder if Beatrice will actually win. I guess whenever something like this happens, it always raises a flag with me telling me the opposite will happen.

>> No.2803195

>>2803187
Oh and by beatrice winning, not that she gets Battler to believe in magic, but an alternate goal occurs. Maybe relating to Battler's sin and why she was butthurt over him not remembering. Like her achieving an alternate goal she's had this whole time.

>> No.2803202

>>2803187

BING*BONG!

>> No.2803225

>>2803202
This post now has the power to easily win the first Budokai Tenkaichi

>> No.2803237

I originally thought this was going to be split up like Higurashi, but I guess not. I'm wondering if they'll ever wisen up to λδ and berns trickery.

>> No.2803243

>>2803225
only 1 flag, isn't it a modifier based on the amount of flags? It's weak.

>> No.2803273

>>2803243
The post starts off with one power.

It is doubled by the flag, so it's two.

It's post number 2803202, so it's now 5,606,404.

>> No.2803282

>>2803273
one point of power per post count? That's sort of hax

>> No.2803283

>>2803273

Shit, that's somewhere in the range with Super Buu (Absorbed Gohan).

>> No.2803293

>>2803283
Yep.

and by using this logic, without any flags the OP post of the top thread on /b/ right now is 142,612,240

>> No.2803302

>>2803273
>doubled by the flag
>one flag

Multiplication doesn't work that way, bro.

>> No.2803305

>>2803293

Still inferior to SSJ4 Gogeta, who's powerlevel was somewhere around 4 billion.

>> No.2803313

>>2803302
I thought it started at 2 then went to three and so on.

>> No.2803333

>>2802501
Not really. The whole point of Ange's story in Episode 4 was to demonstrate that Ange was so powerful as a witch hunter because of the contradiction of her accepting and denying the witch at the same time.

Falling into "you're either anti-mystery or anti-fantasy" is a narrative trap Ryukishi has set up. The letter extra he wrote explaining his definition of the terms, and Ange's sections in Episode 4, are pretty obvious in the disdain that's carried towards pure anti-fantasy too. The resolution is going to be somewhere in the middle, bank on it.

>> No.2803336

HOW CAN YOU BE NEUTRAL TO ANTI-MYSTERY/ANTI-FANTASY.

ANTI-FANTASY IS "EVERY ONE OF THE MURDERERS WAS DONE WITHOUT MAGIC"

ANTI-MYSTERY IS "FUCK IT, MAGIC WAS USED IN AT LEAST ONE MURDERER"

YOU CANNOT GO HALF WAY. IF YOU'RE HALF WAY, THEN YOU'RE ANTI-MYSTERY AND THEREFORE A FAGGOT WHO DOESN'T WANT BATTLER TO EXPERIENCE IMOUTO LOVE YOU CRUEL HEARTLESS LITTLE FUCK.

>> No.2803347

>>2803333

>The resolution is going to be somewhere in the middle, bank on it.

Ryukishi07 absolutely LOVES to twist shit around.
Don't bank on it.

>> No.2803349

>>2803313
Exponential, like in Mahjong.

>> No.2803359

>>2803347
Uh, yeah, and what would "twisting shit around" be in a premise that's set up as very black vs. white, anti-mystery vs. antifantasy?

>> No.2803368

>>2802501

Hold up a second here.

Which side am I on if I want to be dominated by Bern?

>> No.2803386

>>2803368

Either. She exists for both.

>> No.2803396

I'm new into Umineko, I just finished the part when Maria reads read the letter in the first episode. I got a little bored from this first part, does it gets start interesting after this?

>> No.2803405

>>2803396
that is, infact, when things start getting interesting.

>> No.2803406

>>2803396

YES. A million times YES.

>> No.2803419

>>2803386
That's just plain awesome.

>>2803396

That's actually pretty much the exact moment shit starts picking up, gets real, goes down ext ext ext.

>> No.2803417

>>2803396
Yes, you're fairly close to when shit gets interesting, after their little dinner party they'll talk a bit more in the mansion, then they'll go to the guest house and talk a tiny bit more before night.

Then that night is when shit gets real.

>> No.2803416

>>2803396

You're like 1 scene from awesome.

>> No.2803423

Magic exists, but is not the solution to the mysteries.
Just like how Oyashiro-sama exists in Higurashi, but Takano is the culprit.

>> No.2803430

>>2803423
Well, I'm hoping he's going to take it in a different direction because that's what most are expecting.

>> No.2803432

>>2803396
Good job getting bored at the point you should have thought : "Fuck, this is starting to be fucking interesting", ADHD boy.

>> No.2803453

let your friend chase his tail for all eternity!
kihihihihihihihihihi♪

>> No.2803475

>>2803405
>>2803406
>>2803416
>>2803417
>>2803419
>>2803432
Awesome.

>> No.2803498

Just finsihed the first part or whatever. Is there any way to pause the scrolling text at the end? The part which went through each character went by just a little too fast for me to catch.

>> No.2803515

>>2803475
ANTICIPATION

>> No.2803533

>>2803498
Natsuhi went down like a bro, the rest you already know or the tea party will explain.

>> No.2803539

>>2803430
Magic is the solution to the mysteries, but it doesn't exist.

>> No.2803545

>>2803539
Gasp

>> No.2803637

>>2803336
It just mean Magic exists but was not used in the murders also known as 'magic exists outside of the gameboard' or 'Oyashiro-sama'.

>> No.2803666

>>2803637

That's still anti-fantasy.

>> No.2803683

>>2803498

You can just use the chapter skip function to watch it again if you want.

>> No.2803700

Beato exists, but as a real human in modern USA. She is a weeaboo, and she creates the Ushiromiya family on the Sims. Using cheat codes, she gives them billions of sim money. She gets bored with the family and kills them, only to remake them at a later time. However, she grows attached to her virtual family. Too attached. She develops schizophrenia, and starts to believe that some members of the virtual family she created are talking to her...

>> No.2803721

>>2803700
Holly shit!
It all makes sense now.

>> No.2803748

>>2803700
No, it's all a fuckin' gameshow and Battler is the contestant, he is drugged and has false memories because it's a stupid futuristic game show. To win the game he has to figure the mystery out which is being shown on hologram TV's

>> No.2803847

>>2803700
>>2803748

Where do the small bombs factor into this? It can't be true without small bombs!

>> No.2803861

So I played all the episodes.

Eh.

Not that impressed.

>> No.2803940

>>2802190
Anti-misteryfags and anti-fantasyfags are just as bad, and the same thing, really.

Anti-mistery: A witch did it with magic! I refuse to explain!
Anti-fantasy: A Kinzo did it with money! I refuse to explain!

>> No.2803942

>>2803700
Ryukishi agreed, don't bother him.

>> No.2804036

>>2803861
Umineko... not worth the money.

>> No.2804047
File: 46 KB, 640x480, w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2804047

SILLYTIME

>>
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