/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

The second date is probably just the date of the annual autumn family conference that Battler committed his Sin at 6 years ago and has since not shown up at the family conference

[Anonymous No.]

It's a bank account
HOWEVER I THINK NOVEMBER 29TH IS THE DAY FAKE BATTLER WAS BORN

[Anonymous No.]

It is very unlikely for that to be a coincidence.

[Anonymous No.]

This was the only closed room created by EVA. That's got to be the reason for the different marking. This number must have some significance Eva.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742797
And Eva's the only one that solved the riddle of the Epitaph, which I still think has something to do with the number on the chapel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742808

Well, she at least thinks she solved the epitaph. We never know for sure whether she found 10 tons of gold or not.

[Hong Meiling 門門 !!CkFE91f1n9T No.]

>>2742808
Or she may have solved nothing and never found the gold. Don't forget that there's also this theory, that everything not game piece Battler's POV may have never happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742824
But then she would have no motive, and Battler's already proven that she's the only possible culprit for the third game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742823
>>2742824
I have a theory about the gold. I don't really believe it, but it's still a pretty fun one: Kinzo has what appears to be a 10 ton pile of gold. However, only a few of the ingots are real. When the businessman guy sees it and chooses an ingot at random to inspect, he happens to choose a real one. This is what Kinzo means by "magic = probabilistic miracles."

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742830

Um, no he hasn't. All he's done is prove that she could have been the cuplrit, given what he already knows.

Proving that only Eva could be the cuplrit is a Devil's Proof, and can only be resolved with red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742837
It's not a devil's proof when the number of people on the island is limited. She's the only one that survived to the end, and everyone was murdered as stated in red, so she had to have been one of the culprits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742835
That's a pretty interesting theory, and it's interesting to think that in episode 2 we see that the culprit has access to gold, possibly in this manner wihtout solving the epitaph as well.

[Anonymous No.]

07151129 is the access code to operate Beatrice's 3rd and final body, which once activated is a real killing machine that would end mankind.
The code was divided into parts put in each Ushiromiya's brainchip, making the sacrifices needed. The brainchips were inserted by Kinzo in a secret lab on the island, and were checked regularly at each family meeting by him, Nanjo and later Genji.
During the "game", Beatrice is just an AI in a weak body (schoolgirl Beato), however she can still mindhack the other people on the island or make them kill those without brainchips. Battler is a former hacker that kept his flawless firewall.
"Magic" is just computer programs, everyone with the Ushiromiya blood (=the brainchip) are starting to use their chip by resisting against other hackers (George, Jessica, Krauss)
Also, nanomachines

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742940
I wouldn't put it past Kinzo to do that!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742940
Mana transfer with Goldsmith Y/Y

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica said she knows all the servants birthdays and that's not one of them, so unless he's lying about his birthday and Kanon is actually the other Battler, I'm guessing that 1129 has some other significance. It could be the day Battler committed his sin, the day Asumu died, the day that 'Beatrice' came into existance (remember her red- she didn't exist for Battler six years ago. She repeatedly said she 'hadn't manifested yet'.), the day Kinzo died, or even the day the Mariage Sorcière was formed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743011
And well, Jessica could have been lying for Kanon's sake as well, but given that he was already dead, that seems pointless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743011
>>2743025
Kanon is 16 years old, and since he was adopted from an orphanage it was possible to modify it

[Anonymous No.]

07' 15", 11' 29"

[Anonymous No.]

I'm only partway through EP 4 but I remember something about phone numbers outside the mansion starting with 0, so this could be a phone number 715-1129

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743247
Fascinating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2742849

The number of people is limited, but which people they are is not. It's never said in red that people can't leave or enter the island, and it's never said what it means to be on the island.

If you're dead, are you on the island? It has never confirmed that.
If you're in the ocean or on that reef, are you on the island? It has never confirmed that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743274
Well there is a storm and all while the Family Meeting is on.

[Anonymous No.]

and 11/29 is the daythe real battler died

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743306

Chances are very high the real Battler died at birth.

And it could easily be the date of Asumu's death.
07.15 --> 11.29
Who --> When
Battler --> Date of the Sin

i.e. the culprit is tired of Battler's idiocy and is telling him to remember. He identified himself with the birthday date and he should've recognized the date of his mother's murder and remembered the sin. Because he DID NOT do so, the culprit got pissed and started killing.

[Anonymous ‮^_^ ‪‪‪‬ ‪‬ ‭‬ !Jones4ZrPA No.]

>>2743287
If we can allow for things like small bombs, I'm sure we can allow a boat capable of reaching Kuwadorian's harbor in the middle of the storm.

[Anonymous No.]

the numbers might be dates, but why does it coincide with ep2's 2nd and 8th twilight, ingame clock stops at 07:15 and 11:29 when the events are reported to the survivors, just an odd foreshadowing or does it have some significance?

[Anonymous No.]

Episode 5 when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743350
Maybe, but only if its method of propulsion is small bombs

[Anonymous No.]

SMALL BOMBS IN THE WINE THEY DRANK

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743446
August if it stays on schedule. Translation will be months later.

[Anonymous No.]

jcdenton.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743247
I thought the same thing when Krauss and them were locked in the cell. Obviously, they didn't have access to this particular number, though, so it was hopeless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743498
God bless Witch Hunt and their godly speed. If this was Mirror Moon, it would be "years later".

[Anonymous No.]

I have solved the mystery of the first twilight in ep2!
Kinzo's sperm = SMALL BOMBS

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743247
I don't know the specifics, but Japanese phone numbers use a different system. I think there are 10 digits? I don't know what the system is, but I've seen numbers in a 2-4-4 spacing, a 3-3-4 spacing, and even a 4-2-4 spacing. It's not a phone number.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743599
>God bless Witch Hunt and their godly speed. If this was Mirror Moon, it would be "years later".

Fucking this, Witch Hunt is fucking awesome, it is great that they are now caught up to the Japanese releases.

Also, Ryuukishi07 is awesome for this.

[Anonymous No.]

Seriously I'm struck by how many people miss the obvious conclusions. These don't even warrant spoilers.
Red says Battler is Ange's Onii-chan, that should make things pretty obvious.
"only X people exist on the island" is pretty inconclusive considering people stop existing once they die.
Every servant has a corresponding demonic representative and every episode has at least one "accident" where one is killed but not through suicide and by means no one else can accomplish. If you can't see that as clue to what being furniture really means then whats the point of even talking about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743631

Ryukishi is a true bro who never fails to impress.

[Anonymous No.]

>Red says Battler is Ange's Onii-chan, that should make things pretty obvious.

I'm sure they are related, but I don't think you can take this red truth literally. If it was something, like, "both Ange and Battler were conceived by the same man and woman," or one either, it'd be different.

[Anonymous No.]

>Red says Battler is Ange's Onii-chan, that should make things pretty obvious.

I'm sure they are related, but I don't think you can take this red truth literally. If it was something, like, "both Ange and Battler were conceived by the same man and woman," or one of either, it'd be different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743685
I have faith in the red! Plus, there's only so many convulse plot twists I'm willing to follow: Battler is Battler end of story and if not SMALL BOMBS

[Anonymous No.]

go back to /a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743670
If some furniture always dies in a way that is not suicide, homicide, or accident, then it can only mean they died a natural death. In other words, they are beings with lifespans strictly limited by some criteria other than their own health. In other words, the furniture is small bombs.

[Anonymous No.]

Umishit, not so good.

[Anonymous No.]

sure is 1 samefag spamming umineko threads around here

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743719
>>2743738
>>2743745

[Anonymous No.]

Kinzo and Maria are the same person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743735
This theory has the appropriate amount of small bombs to make me believe it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743274
if they could build a tunnel to the other mansion couldn't there be one to the mainland?

[Anonymous No.]

<<< /a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743766
Sorry, but the uu- can be explained as a grunt of pain from the small bombs in his stomach exploding

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743773
I wouldn't put it past Grandfather to do something like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743745
>>2743738
>>2743777
>>2743719

Ah its useless! its useless!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743773
Nah more like a small vessel waiting off the shore near the shrine till the first twilight is past and eliminating evidence afterwards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743841
Fuck, forgot about the shrine.
Wonder how important it is.
Could it be related to Battler's sin?

[Anonymous No.]

Here's food for thought.

Kinzo is alive and is the one killing everyone.

We know he doesn't have an alibi, because Kinzo dying didn't create any glaring contradictions with the red or the story. However, if you look at the scene where Kinzo is "killed" the way Battler cornered him was by making Kinzo say in red "Nobody in the room has more than one name" which we know he couldn't say (Shanon/Sayo and Kanon/Whoever was in the room at the time).

Since Beato is a witch which makes her a "really good actor" her "defeat" in that matter was all staged by her. Her goal was to create the perfect alibi, and she has accomplished that goal.

I know it doesn't coincide with the whole "17 people alive on the island" but to be fair, the notion of "17 people being on the island" already conflicts with many murders, to the point where we almost need to have Beato admit that someone OTHER than Kinzo is dead anyway, so that the 17th person is "person X" (who, lets be honest, gets a whole lot of unmerited shit from Battler. He doesn't even know the guy and Battler's accused him of like 20 murders, that's cold).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743880
Beato said it in red, Kinzo was dead before the start of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743745

sure is 1 samefag sageing umineko threads around here

[Anonymous No.]

sure feels like /a/ around here

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743890
Yes, Kinzo is dead.

Kinzo is also a title, so unless he was the first one, there already did exist a person named Kinzo who was already dead prior to the beginning of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler's sin of six years ago was denying the Golden Witch.

Despite arguing over only 4 "episodes", Beato says that she's killed Battler's family hundreds of times. It's been six years since the original murders, and Battler doesn't know that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743880

To be fair the circumstantial evidence of Kinzo's absence is pretty strong. We've never seen him and the red says he isn't there.The last statement Battler makes is iffy but the point is clear, someone or something imitates Kinzo, we can't be certain of anything in ep4 other than peoples perception is being fiddled with or that they're simply lying

[Anonymous No.]

>17 people alive
>17th Expansion

I see the conspiracy.

By the way... Incest between Ange and Battler wished...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743941
>>2743973
My theory about that, which fits with anti-fantasy, no tricks normalness a lot better than the hereditary name thing, is that what the people at the conference "acknowledged" as the real Kinzo was his corpse. If you looked at the red text without having seen the fantasy scene, it's the first thing you'd think of; THAT is how the red text really can be used for the fantasy side.

The red text in question:
All who were at the family conference acknowledged Kinzo's existence! No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo for someone else by sight. No matter what the disguise, they would not mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo!

[Anonymous No.]

Thomas Cook AG was the parent company of Thomas Cook, Condor Airlines and other such subsidiaries until 12 February 2007 when Thomas Cook AG announced that it had merged with MyTravel Group PLC. The new combined company was named Thomas Cook Group plc.

It was originally incorporated on November 1, 1997 as "C&N Touristic AG" but the name was changed following the 2002 acquisition of Thomas Cook. The group was jointly owned by Lufthansa and Karstadt, However Karstadt took control of the company two days before Christmas 2006 by buying the half-share owned by Lufthansa, the German airline.Karstadt paid €800m (£540m), though Lufthansa will for at least the next two years retain a stake in Condor Airlines, Thomas Cook's in-house airline in Germany.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744105
that... fits perfectly bravo
if you add to that the dungeon scene being a hoax or the people being made to give false reports over the phone, well it seems we caught the witch

[Anonymous No.]

>>2743941
Kinzo being a title was just Battler's speculation. Kinzo is his birth name. No one else can take it since the only name he'd ever pass on is his magician name, Goldsmith.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744169
That gives me another idea, although this one is a lot more farfetched.

The pitfalls were a huge problem; there's no way they're the real explanation. However, what if the killers kept everyone in the conference room, and made them pretend to be in a dungeon over the phone? This require the servants to be in on the murder, since Gohda and Kumasawa would have to be acting. Since, if I remember correctly, game piece Battler doesn't go to visit the conference room until he is the last one alive, they could have been held there the whole time, and then transferred to around the well.

Anyways, it's not a very good explanation in terms of storytelling, but it works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744229
Does he explicitly say goldsmith in english, or does he say it in japanese (which is Kinzo)?

[Anonymous No.]

Lanark South was a federal electoral district represented in the Canadian House of Commons from 1867 to 1917. It was located in the province of Ontario. It was created by the British North America Act of 1867 which divided the County of Lanark into two ridings: Lanark South and Lanark North.

In 1882, the South Riding of Lanark was defined as consisting of the townships of Bathurst, North Elmsley, Beckwith, South Sherbrooke, North Burgess, Drummond and Montague, the Town of Perth, and the Village of Carleton Place.

In 1903, the Town of Smith's Falls was added to the riding, and the Village of Carleton Place was excluded.

The electoral district was abolished in 1914 when it was merged into Lanark riding.

[Anonymous No.]

Army of Darkness: Shop till You Drop Dead is a 4-part comic book spin-off published by Devils Due Publishing & Dynamite Entertainment, continuing the comic book saga of The Evil Dead series. The story takes place exactly where its predecessor Ashes 2 Ashes finishes, only there is quite a bit of time hopping involved to keep things confusing.

Ash returns from Egypt, believing the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis destroyed for good. However, the evil tome has managed to hitch-hike all the way back to S-Mart and wound up in the hands of Mister Smart himself, Ash's cheerfully irritating boss. When Deadites infest the aisles and consumers start consuming, Ash must team up with his fellow co-workers to start the ultimate wage slave war against evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744244
Kinzo = Gold Warehouse. Were you even paying attention?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744236
There's an interesting point in that Beato says that Kanon was the first to die, but his body was never found, and we aren't shown the orders of how the rest of the group died. Could it be that they were actually running TOWARDS the other mansion instead of escaping it, with Kyrie staying behind to throw Battler off the trail?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744290
He locks himself inside, leaving the others to die, but still gets killed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744303
by SMALL BOMBS IN THE DUST HE BREATHES

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744272
Hmm, I thought it was implied it's the same thing, but the kanji reading is "gold warehouse".

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744290
Oh man that's a pretty interesting idea, I like it. As for Kyrie, maybe she alone of the escape attempt got caught, and is being forced to say that stuff. I like to hope that Kyrie is never evil in any of the Episodes, but who knows. ALSO, if the servants were in on it, which the captives being held in the conference room would probably imply, then this is consistent with Kanon dying first, since the captives could have killed him to start their escape.

[Anonymous No.]

Sorry to pop in like this, but if you guys have extra time, see if you can help in expanding the Umineko wiki.

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_Wiki

It would be a shit load easier is we can keep a large amount of information of a single site like that.

[Anonymous No.]

> I like to hope that Kyrie is never evil in any of the Episodes

I'd be disappointed if she wasn't. She's one of the few people on the island to have her wits about her, and as Battler's 'mentor' in the detective stakes, it's almost certain that he'll face her at some point.

[Yuyucow !izhBpjwbEg No.]

My own theory about that scene from yesterday:

We know that they arrived at Kuwadorian at ~23:40 because it was confirmed by the kids when they were asked by the phone what time it was. Battler is with them, so I don't think they are lying. But that doesn't mean they arrived there in 10 minutes like they think, because if they were under the effects of drugs (tea, food, whatever) it's possible that the meeting with Kinzo was earlier than 23:30. That way it's understandable why Kyrie, who has always been anti-fantasy, told Battler to believe in magic no matter what.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744236
We can pin this one on either Jessica or Kyrie, but we needn't blame either. However Gaap= Shanon is pretty much confirmed, so the scene of their resistance is them defecting? Really, I like this idea because it involves just one crazy person with a gun pressed to your head instead of a hallucination. Think about it, its something Ryuukishi would pull locking them in a guest room under guard while high on something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744364
I'm still suspicious Kyrie even called Battler, same with Jeissica. It's not hard to fake someone's voice on a phone, and all you would have to do is drop them next to a phone and pull it off the hook.

[Lacuna !k4IsHiAtus No.]

>>2744321
I like to think that Kyrie wasn't forced to say anything like that, and that she truly wishes for Battler to believe in magic rather than face the reality that is the parents beginning to kill each other over money.

The gold thread in this case could be the desire for the money, and Kyrie is horrified that even she has realized that she would kill for this money.

Or I could just be overthinking it and the real killer is next to Kyrie, forcing her to say things so that Battler gets thrown off the trail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744395
Buffalo Beatrice:It acknowledges witches or it gets the hose again!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744395
That's a pretty interesting take on it, but Kyrie seems to have a good deal of respect for Battler... would she really shield him from the truth like that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744428
She might already be shielding him from the truth, depending or not she's in on him being the other Battler and what Rudolf was intending with it.

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

On the other end of the chessboard, I wonder what Battler's sin is.


In the worst case scenario, it's something that Beatrice, as the person that's supposed to rule over Rokkenjima, takes offense to.

In an OK scenario, it's something that doesn't involve Beatrice directly but, for example, as a third person.

In the best scenario, it doesn't involve Episode 4's Beatrice, or the meta-worlds Beatrice, but another Beatrice, like the one Rosa knew.

But then again, sin or crime could be anything in itself. It has to be something somewhat serious if an "eternal witch" that killed dozens or hundreds of people is offended by it.

What about suicide? Unlike the other siblings, that quietly endured the weight the family put on them, the original Battler took the easy way out and ended himself. Suicide is a taboo in religion and society, possibly even more so than, say, murder.

And now, shoot me down, tho-rough-ly. This is the first time I tried crafting a theory regarding Umineko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744342

ooooh

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744449
How do you blame someone for suicide if they're already dead.

[Lacuna !k4IsHiAtus No.]

>>2744428
It's hard to say. I'm inclined to think that Kyrie does though, based on an admittedly small piece of circumstantial evidence. When locked up in the dungeon and forced to talk on the phone, she was able to be sneaky and convey the message "We are unable to do anything" to Battler even while appearing to say something else. I have a feeling that if Kyrie had been forced by the criminal to tell Battler to accept witches, she would have tried to convey the truth to him through different wording.

Here's a thought. What if, through some ridiculous circumstances, the way to earn the inheritance would be to kill your child? I haven't thought this one through very much, but the talk in episode 4 of how much each parent values their children in terms of money makes me wonder. It's also odd how every couple has exactly one child with them, even if it might be coincidence that Ange is sick. In the episode when Rudolf proclaims that he's probably going to die, this could fit in that he has already refused to consider the possibility of having to kill Battler. The trials in episode 4 could fit with this.

The things that really mess up this theory entirely are the closed rooms, majority of kills being denied as suicides, whenever the parents die before their own children, and how the number of kills almost always follows the witch's epitaph. Just something to think about I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744449
*spit* *rubbing hands*
theres little to no info on Battler's sin OHNOES SPOILERTAGS
right now we can't draw any conclusions other than the culprit blaming Battler for how things turned out.
For examples of how ridiculous this can get see Tsukihime/ Far Side. I like your theorie though, mostly because it fucks with everything we know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744449
Hey, what is there to shoot down? The only way to judge our speculations of this stuff (as long as it doesn't contradict any red text or game piece Battler narration) is how good it sounds. My opinion on the sin is your first one, specifically, he promised Beatrice (Jessica) something, and then didn't do it/forgot about it because it didn't seem that important, which either made her get mad enough to decide to use the Beatrice legend to do something, or made her develop an actual Beatrice personality.

As you can see, though, I'm just taking the viewpoint that supports my favorite Beatrice theory, so yeah.

[None !SoAoGU5XjA No.]

>>2744480
Because you might say it's cowardly or irresponsible? I'm not into that line of thinking, but I guess that's how this works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744500
There's not much they can do to repent. Beatrice demands that he repent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744342
>>2744466
It would be hugely helpful just to have a nice centralized source of the facts of the story, both red text and Battler narration.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744342
THIS make a separate page for each crime so we can ad theories...Um how do you work this thing?

[Yuyucow !izhBpjwbEg No.]

>>2744449
The one Rosa knew died before Battler was born, so it's impossible that they ever met. But with the existence of a third Beatrice then it could have happened.

And I like he idea of Beato getting pissed because Battler commited suicide. Beato said that she has killed the Ushiromiya family thousands of times, so it's possible that this game started 6 years ago and Battler's memory is shit. But the ritual from 6 years ago didn't end as expected because he commited suicide instead of being killed like the witch expected, so she couldn't come back to live. Because of that, a lot of people has died (the ritual repeating over and over), And like Beatrice said, the sin is not something Battler did to her because she didn't exist yet.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744567
Damn, where is my Kyrie route?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744574
Not sure about Kyrie, but I'm sure Rudolf will have a lot to do in the answer arcs, considering he's murdered early on in every episode and his cryptic 'I'm going to be killed' message in episode 1.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gohda plays a big role too. His entire existence on the island seems suspicious and we know little to nothing about him. It doesn't make sense that an accomplished chef of wide renown would suddenly decide to work in an island in the middle of nowhere, regardless of how much he was being paid. (which given Krauss' financial situations, probably wouldn't be that much).

[Anonymous No.]

My theory is that Beatrice is actually Asuma's child. Battler is Kyrie and Rudolf's child. The sin is that Battler took Beatrice's place after Asuma died and Rudolf sent Beatrice away, so he could marry Kyrie. Rudolf also sent Battler to Asuma's parents' house, and because they didn't know any details of their grandchild, accepted Battler as theirs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744617
Also: Battler doesn't remember any of this because he either has a terminal case of shitty memory, or he has lolamnesia

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744484
Rudolf seems to care for Battler a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744648
in b4 raep

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744617
But that would make this paring incestuous

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744666
FUCK YEAH

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744666
I THINK thats the point, and the only point at that.

[Anonymous No.]

I'll say this, whatever battler's "sin" is, the way beatrice was pressing him about it makes it seem as though battler himself did in fact do something to really peeve her and not by some unfortunate series of events that he doesn't know about.

Whether he remembers this or not for some reason is a completely different matter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744670
Oh

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744686
Red says otherwise.
Battler caused the game Beato to blame him, that is all for now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744617
Also, her name was not Beatrice at the time, which allows her to sneak passed the red stating that it has nothing to do with Beatrice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744698
>Battler caused the game Beato to blame him

I'm having trouble figuring what you're trying to correct me on.
Battler did something, beato is pissed at him about it.
I didn't say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744735
GAME Beato is another existence entirely,
Beatrice is just tired of him goofing around.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744803
>>2744779
...They emphasized "six years ago" a lot more than I remembered.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744778
No Beato was pissed as well

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744821
So he wants to make his shameful memories disappear does he?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744779
>>2744803
>>2744821
>>2744838

>This is is a memory I want to disappear.
>Since it looks like the person in question wants to forget them, I think I will refrain from saying any more...
>I don't remember anything about what I said off the top of my head. Please, don't make me remembe-r.

FFFFFFFFFFF

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744779
>>2744803
>>2744821
>>2744838

Well I think we can safely say with these that the current Battler isn't some replacement that was switched with the real one inbetween those six years apart.

Even if you were to claim brainwashing I find it very unlikely that the brain washer would know such specific details of of random events like those discussed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744855
>FFFFFFFFFFF
gb2/a/

[Anonymous No.]

Correct me if I'm mistaken... But what is the deal with the third game's first twilight? Weren't the six that were sacrificed Gohda, Kumasawa, Genji, Kanon, Shannon, and Kinzo?

How could there be six victims of the first twilight if Kinzo was always dead before the game even began?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744779
>>2744803
>>2744821
>>2744838

[Anonymous No.]

There is also an interesting parallel between Rosa and Battler. When MARIA is torturing Rosa it talks about her sin, killing Sakutarou, but Rosa can't remember that event because she thought it wasn't important but it was important to Maria.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744883
Because they just needed to make it seem like there were six chosen for the ritual.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744986

Ritual angle's kind of falling apart, isn't it? Ah well, it doesn't necessarily say much anyways, since the culprit could've just found the corpse and gone 'oh hey this works everyone thinks he's alive anyways' rather than knowing of his death in advance.

Of course, it still looks very premeditated, given the money in the safety deposit boxes, but who knows if that is true, if Eva even found the gold in the third game, etc etc. Really, looking at it just through red text and Battler's perspective doesn't tell us enough at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744883
Does it matter? Beatrice wasn't revived in the 3rd game.

[Lacuna !k4IsHiAtus No.]

>>2745027
It might not for the third game, but in the first Kinzo is the sacrifice for the fourth twilight.

[Anonymous No.]

Hey.

Why did Ange have to die?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745063

Because she's fat. And ugly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744884
All this has made me believe it's Jessica. It is, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745027

It speaks of intentions, if Kinzo was dead all along, being used in the ritual means that someone is merely trying to make it look like a ritual, anyone seriously attempting it would definitely not think 'oh, well, I guess this works'. More towards the knowing about the gold and getting the inheritance for yourself theory.

Say Krauss is hiding that Kinzo is already dead, the other siblings pretty much already know this (suspecting it enough to bet on it to extort money from Krauss). Krauss is simply extorting his corpse at that point, or seriously looking for the gold on the island, betting everything on that one bar he showed Natsuhi (of course, fuck all if any of this actually happened, siblings' suspicion, showing the gold bar to Natsuhi and all that).

Krauss then has motivation to murder everyone, ensuring the island is his, and no sibling would bicker and search the island or something. Of course this backfires and pretty much everyone dies (either by Eva actually finding the gold and fighting back or whatever).

... And yet, all of that is completely unfounded and largely ignores some of the less crime-centric red text, such as Battler being responsible for the murders. Unless BATTLER IS A TIMETRAVELING AMNESIAC

[guy who watch nicovideo a while ago No.]

i don't understand how this would be connected to how you can prove that witch exist or you need someone like a witch to explain what happened...

like chess piece means that each people have a role from big to small...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745223

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745095
Well, the fact that Kinzo isn't the sacrifice in the first twilight of every game has, in my opinion, only 2 explanations.

1) The first murderer did not know Kinzo was dead
2) The first murderer did, but didn't use him as the sacrifice because it would tip off meta-Battler too easily.

The first explanation is clearly anti-fantasy, while the second leans toward anti-mystery (though if the meta-world has a mundane explanation, this is non-magical as well)

The reason for either says a lot about who is the one killing the first 6 group of people. Some people really could NOT know that Kinzo is dead, while some people really should.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745267

The first murderer could know Kinzo was dead, but not use him for the first twilight to cast doubt on Kinzo himself. The fourth game specifically has Kinzo as the murderer, many people believe it, or are forced to act as if they do, or lie about it, but Battler and the other cousins definitely believe it.

It could still stand as anti-fantasy to think Kinzo's burnt corpse being used for whatever twilight is simply to cast doubt on the identity of the murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

Juuza is Kyrie's son.

He knew that Ange would want to go to Rokkenjima, where there would be no supervision.

He kills Ange and the blacksuits, but allows Kasumi to live.

Kasumi's ill relationship with Ange can be testified by both Juuza and Okonogi. Kasumi is then made out to be Ange's killer, and Juuza can claim that the killing of the blacksuits was in clear defense of Ange. Ange's corpse can confirm a pummeling of some sort, and the boatsman can testify that she was perfectly fine off of the boat.

Juuza, the last remaining Ushiromiya, claims the massive wealth of the Ushiromiyas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745314
He'd have earned it too.

That would be brilliant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745314
Actually, it would make more sense for him to allow Kasumi to kill Ange instead of him delivering the shot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745314
KYRIE IS BEATRICE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745095
Well, my theory about "Battler is responsible" is part of the theory that Jessica is Beatrice. When she says Battler is responsible, it's in the same sense that Keiichi is "responsible" in Meakashi-hen, by not giving the doll to Mion: his "sin" was some little thing he said that, unknown to him, stirred up some pretty extreme emotions in Jessica, causing her to start plotting (or else go crazy and think she IS Beatrice)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745451
They had hinamizawa syndrome to blame for that though.
Normal people don't go around slaughtering other people because they weren't given a dolly.

Whatever it is that he did, I have a hunch that it's a fair bit more significant than that.
Why he doesn't remember such a thing though is another mystery.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745451

As feasible as the Jessica theory seems, I'm avoiding it just because everyone else has thought it to death. I'd like to think that it was the 'real' Battler that committed the sin. Suit-Beatrice said something rather strange when conversing with Battler at the end of episode 4 (before he made it inside the mansion), like she thought that there was a slim chance that he'd remember, or a slim chance that he was the original Battler. Something along those lines, I'm currently skimming through episode 4 to reach there and look.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744884
Oh wow... I'm starting to get simultaneously pretty disappointed and excited, because I swear every other thing about Umineko I give any consideration to makes me more and more sure that Jessica is Beatrice, and I've ruined the game by deciding on a guess of what will turn out to be the truth. On the other hand, if I'm wrong I will be ECSTATIC when I find out the truth

[Anonymous No.]

Personally, I totally buy the "Kinzo got a third Beatrice after Rosa's Beatrice died, who grew up miserable, and Battler pissed her off by making her a promise to help out and forgot about it", but I really, really don't think it's Jessica. There are too many small things that don't fit, not to mention I think the characterization is totally off.

[Anonymous No.]

Nobody other than Kanon and Kinzo are dead in ep4

everybody else is a body double or a fake. there is no red to deny this, and those are the only characters who have red stating their death. everyone else but battler left the island via some method.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745491
My big problem with the Jessica theory is that it doesn't explain who the "Jessica" is that is always found dead.

It seems like a lazy argument that people only use for novelty.

[Anonymous No.]

What all of these elaborate "Jessica = Beatrice" have at their root is the supposition that since Jessica sort of looks like Beato, they must be connected somehow. Knowing Ryuukishi, however; this answer is probably not correct because it's obvious and simple.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745580
That method being, of course, small bombs

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745589
Taking a look at the flashback at the beginning Episode 3 where Beatrice talks to Virgilia about magic more or less proves that there must be a "third Beatrice", because her circumstances and personality flat-out don't fit with Kinzo's lover or Rosa's Beatrice, so there is that.. But I still really, absolutely don't think it's Jessica.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745589
That's not quite right. Although almost all the support for the theory is circumstantial evidence and "oh that fits," there is one solid piece of evidence:
a Jessica Beatrice makes the end of the 4th Episode, from when Battler talks to Beatrice on the balcony onwards, not mysterious in the least. Without assuming Jessica is Beatrice, the fact that there's a person on the balcony talking to game piece Battler is extremely problematic, and would probably require reducing the human count yet again (e.g. Shannon=Kanon) to come up with an explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745638
Reducing the human count is no problem. Episode 4 proved, through Kinzo, that dead people aren't included in the count. It has *never* actually been stated in red that it is impossible for people to get on or off the island once the ceremony has started; in fact, the boat guy implies that it'd be difficult but not impossible, not to mention the reveal that Kinzo is more than capable of building hugeass underground passageways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745585
I think most of those theories have that the Jessica found dead is the Jessica who is Beatrice, and that there are other, probably inheritance-related killers.

[Anonymous No.]

There are more plausible theories than saying that the person to whom he was speaking must have been Jessica, especially considering Jessica was found with half her head missing.

Example: Maria wasn't actually dead and the person to whom he was speaking was her. We know that Rosa has tranquilizers and that the possibility (raised by Kyrie) of drugs being used to knock out the murder victims exists. Also consider that Maria was found in the dining room, so if a trap had been installed there to gas or drug someone, there's no guarantee that she couldn't have tripped it.

Moreover, he could have been speaking to anyone on the balcony, why Jessica and not anyone else? Kanon is also "missing" and if the Kanon = Shannon theories aren't nonsense, then it means that he could easily impersonate a woman.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745665
That is all true... it would be pretty interesting if Beatrice shows up midway through the storm, and isn't a family member.

[Anonymous No.]

Magic exists

Bernkastel is the proof. We know that there really is a higher level being, a voyager that travels between the kakera, that incarnated as Furude Rika many times in Higurashi. The completeness of Bern's character and background strongly suggests that she is not a mere cameo, but a link between the two universes. Since she certainly exists and has magic in Higurashi, it's safe to assume that she really exists along with her magic in Umineko.

Of course, this says nothing about the truth of any magic other than hers. However, if Battler were to attempt to say "Magic doesn't exist" in red, he wouldn't be able to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745670
Hmm, how many times is the game board beatrice actually seen? I know we have when she gives the letter to Maria (assuming Maria isn't lying). We have The balcony on episode 4... How many times is she seen in episode 2?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745718
Also, saying that Jessica or whoever "disguised themselves as Beatrice" is pretty ridiculous. They weren't in a Beatrice disguise to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745718
I think saying that someone in Umineko is unlikely to have carried out some act because they're found dead shortly after is a bit much, given the outcomes so far...

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745730
Maria in the rose garden
Genji at the door
Kyrie on the way to the study
Kannon and Shannon in the honored guest room
That's all I remember.

[Anonymous No.]

Ronove = Genji
Virgillia = Kumasawa
Gaap = Shannon
Goats = Kannon
Kinzo = Gohda

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745779
>>2745730
depending on whether those do or don't help your pet theory, you can choose to ignore any of them because their details were neither written in red nor observed by on the board battler

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745723
That's not true either. The only person on the real world who's seen Bernkastel is Ange, who isn't the most mentally stable or emotionally sound person, given that she was trying to commit suicide after despairing over how lonely she was.

And the Ange that saw Bernkastel might have actually died during the ??? of Ep. 3. Think about it - she steps off the building and falls to her death and that Ange appears as Gretel in the meta-world. Meanwhile, the Ange in episode 4 is from a completely different Kakera entirely and never meets Bern.

[Anonymous No.]

I think one of the keys is to solving the mystery is finding out who gives the first letter to Maria while she is in the Rose Garden.

In the 4th Game it was supposedely Kinzo who gave her the letter. Now that we know that Kinzo was already dead at the time, it's pretty damn obvious to assume that Maria is at least cooperating with the murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745637
Didn't she brake a vase in the flashback, and isn't there a scene with Jessica saying that Kinzo spanked her one time for braking a vase?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745815
Kumasawa is a mackerel

Hinamizawa syndrome is small bombs

[Anonymous No.]

Why is everyone mentioning small bombs?

[Anonymous No.]

I think it may be more important for how many times Battler himself has actually seen beatrice rather than anyone else.

Anyone can SAY they've seen beatrice, but they were also talking to the kids in ep4 about seeing goatmen and bunny girls.

So yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745815
Aren't the goats huge brutes? I dont think Kanon could pull that off with his size.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745865
Because Battler says so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745847
Yeah, she broke a vase, and then Virgilia helped her get out of trouble. I don't remember a Jessica scene like that, though, where about was it from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745758
You still haven't said why we should believe that the person to whom Battler was speaking (assuming he was speaking to someone and not having a delusion because he ingested poison) was Jessica and not any of the people found dead in the house.

>>2745847
>brake

Are you twelve years old or just illiterate?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745841
Oh wow... I had been thinking that that was highly likely, but that's basically solid proof. Thanks a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

Doesn't Battler see Beatrice at the very end of Episode 1 when Jessica is with him? It doesn't show her sprite, but Battler says the girl is the same girl in the portrait of Beatrice, so he can at least see clear enough to tell that it's someone who looks like the Beatrice in the portrait.

Maria also runs up to her and calls her Beatrice, so it's probably the same Beatrice who gave her the letter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745888
Possibly he's just using some crap keyboard layout, like Dvorak?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745888
Because she's on the balcony outside Jessica's room, which is later found as a closed room, among other things. Someone else will have to give you answers to any other questions you might have about the Jessica theory, because I don't want to be talking to a spelling Nazi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2744803
>>2744884
Looking at these two together is really interesting. The person on the phone seems to know about Battler's habit six years ago of saying retarded shit in English, but thinks he still does it and is trying to play along with his 'specialty'.

This is kind of a hit against the Jessica theory, because a) the only person who remembered clearly on their own that Battler did that was Shannon, and b) it implies that the person on the phone doesn't know that Battler stopped doing it a long time ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745909
Certainly he sees "someone".
He sees her all of a few seconds before receiving a winchester shell from one the remaining rifles from kinzo's room.
Or that's the theory anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745937
I don't think it ever actually says it's a balcony outside Jessica's room. Some people were just guessing that.

[Anonymous No.]

I was just typing something up for the wiki and found something interesting in the Witch's Letter of the third game.

>I was the one who succeeded the Ushiromiya family inheritance from Kinzo-sama. And, I look forward to seeing who will receive the inheritance from me.

It's official, "Beatrice" knew that Kinzo was dead before any of the murders started.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745937
The balcony isn't outside Jessica's room, though it's nearby.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745979
He says it looks like the person in the portrait.

Even if its too dark to see, which is not explicitly stated, he should be able to pick out some of the more glaring features, like her hair color or maybe her dress.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746006
>He says it looks like the person in the portrait.

And someone says I look like one of the Beatles every time I get a haircut, but you still wouldn't believe that just because I just happen to have a picture of one of them to compare to.

[Anonymous No.]

End of Ep 1, when Beatrice appears.

It also says a little later how Maria is hugging the person who looks like Beatrice and they start laughing together.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746051
I'm not saying it is the "real" Beatrice, I'm just saying it throws a monkey wrench in the Jessica = Beatrice theory.

[Anonymous No.]

Everything is done by Rosa, the black witch

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746076
Battler meets Beatrice in every episode. He becomes her furniture in the second game. He goes to the Golden Land with her in the third game. Either someone's playing with the line between the real world and the meta world, or Battler's perspective is as unreliable as anyone's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746076
That is a dummy dressed in Beatrice's clothes and the laughter is small bombs

[Anonymous No.]

Does Lambda's red text saying that there are no body double tricks applicable only in EP1?

Jessica survived until the end after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746142
Meta world doesn't exist in Episode 1. Piece-Battler never meets Beatrice in Episode 3, he just gets killed by Eva.

[insanezero !VUNofZD8jM No.]

>>2746142
In Episode 2, he was completely drunk by the end of the game. Obviously he's going to be unreliable there.
In Episode 3, that was meta-Battler going to the Golden Land, not game-Battler. Game-Battler was shot to death by Eva.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746251
As a side note, did anyone else jump a little when Eva shoots him? I pretty easily frightened, but I was like, did a VISUAL NOVEL really just scare me? The eyes and the fact that the tiny gap between her raising the gun and shooting him isn't based on user input goes a long way, I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746285
I know what you mean. I was like "Woah. What the fuck." when it happened.

Then I turned around and thought to myself about how awesome that was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746303
I was pretty delighted by slightly different eyes making a character all kinds of creepy making a comeback in Umineko. Maybe there will be more if later episodes start showing what is actually happening in narration, rather than just theories.

[Anonymous No.]

cant wait for Eps 5

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746340
If you lighten the crazy eyed Eva sprite or the Kinzo one
They look like they have cat eyes

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746251
"He was drunk, so he could see everything" is quite silly theory.
It just call magic "alcohol."

And, Battler's narration said:
"My drunkenness was completely blown away."

[Anonymous No.]

I wish Beato would "Blow me away", if you know what i mean

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone post the cat-eyed Eva sprite?

[Anonymous No.]

It sort of sucks that Rudolf always fucking dies before he gets to talk much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745841
It has been obvious that Maria is working with the murderer for a long time. Now it has been said in red that the key to the chapel 'never left her hands'. Which means there is only one way for the victims to have gotten into the chapel: Maria let them in herself, and locked the door after the killers left. Whoever the killers are, they must have Kinzo's ring, so they just had her reseal it once they were done. Also, if you assume Jessica is Beatrice, alot of those cases where letters mysteriously appear can be explained if she's having Maria set them down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746669
Unfortunately the Jessica is Beato theory clashes with the ending of game one in which Jessica, Maria and Battler all see "Beatrice" in front of the painting after Natsuhi is killed by her and about to kill the rest.
Maria even runs up to her and calls her Beatrice.

Besides, Jessica as Beatrice would just be too obvious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2745841
> In the 4th Game it was supposedely Kinzo who gave her the letter.
Rosa said it in the 3rd person's narration part.
We don't know whether Maria really said so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746749
Plus, Eva-Beatrice stated in red that Jessica has NOT committed murder.

Also, when it comes to the whole sin thing remember Beatrice is a title, just like Kinzo was.

[Beatrice the Golden !WITCHqFSq2 No.]

>>2746399
There are quite a few of them, do you want them all?

[Beatrice the Golden !WITCHqFSq2 No.]

>>2746792
And by quite a few I meant there are 2 more. hurr durr

[Beatrice the Golden !WITCHqFSq2 No.]

>>2746816

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746792
>>2746816
>>2746821
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746792
I had to minimize that right after enlarging it.
That look with the rifle, that's the kind of shit that gives people nightmares.

[Beatrice the Golden !WITCHqFSq2 No.]

>>2746834
I am more bothered by her hands than anything else in those pictures.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746749
>>2746778
Jessica doesn't need to be committing any murders, just be instigating them. And I think that red just pertained to Episode 3, otherwise Eva-Beatrice just completely absolved someone of guilt. That seems like a pretty major card to lay down. Add to that the red stating that 'Nanjo, Genji and Kumasawa are not murderers' and the suspects are getting thinned out pretty fast. So I'm gonna take the stance that the red is pertinent to that game and not universal, unless it is specifically said to be so, like with Kinzo.

And that scene at the end of Episode 1 isn't a good angle to try to counterattack from, the only people who could have killed Natsuhi are the cousins and maybe Kanon since his death has been skirted around quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746669
> It has been obvious that Maria is working with the murderer for a long time.
Not obvious.
Red text stated:
"Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!!"
"No door with an auto-lock exists other than Kinzo's study!"

I think the door of the chapel was unlocked before Maria got a letter from Beatrice, and was locked after the first twilight.
In other words, the door was open when Rosa and servants went in the chapel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746861
>the only people who could have killed Natsuhi are the cousins and maybe Kanon since his death has been skirted around quite a bit.

What makes you say that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746861
>And I think that red just pertained to Episode 3, otherwise Eva-Beatrice just completely absolved someone of guilt. That seems like a pretty major card to lay down.

That's what the witches are going for though. Laying all the blame on the witches.

[Anonymous No.]

the true black witch

[Anonymous No.]

>>2746986
where is this from

[Anonymous No.]

unused sprites from ep 3 i think

[Anonymous No.]

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_Wiki

Get to work on the wiki, guys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2747065
fanmade. No sprites exist on the current arc*.nsa data.