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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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2671407 No.2671407 [Reply] [Original]

>http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/05/28/rape-games-are-now-banned-in-japan/

TBS news reports that all rape games will be banned from sale or production in Japan. It has been decided. It is estimated that this particular genre takes up about 10% to 20% of the entire industry but the PC software independent review committee has made the decision to ban all these games.

The PC games review committee had originally not seen it as a problem, but now it has come to the point where the entire game software industry has to comply to the new restrictions.

The news article reports that the reason for doing so started with the campaigning efforts of the International woman’s rights organization Equality Now which had started due to the problems found with the sale of Rapelay in other countries.

pic unrelated

>> No.2671410

Edit: I accidently left this out, but they will change their judging criteria starting from the 2nd of June, and the approximately 200 member companies will be restricted from the production and sale of rape games.

I wonder what the brands focused entirely on rape games will do now, and all the other games currently in production. Or maybe they’ll just call it forced transfer of magic powers or something. I sure hope they end this here because eroge is dead if they go through every genre! And then they’ll move on to other media like film and books.

>> No.2671415

Say bye-bye to Sengoku Lance, since I guess translators won't work on a game you can legally buy anymore.

>> No.2671417

lol blame amerikkka

>> No.2671422

I wonder what genius decided it's an achievement for women rights to boycott porn with fictional unrealistic characters.

>> No.2671424

60% of all eroge. This is a sad day.

>> No.2671428

Why now?

>> No.2671439

Are they going to ban any eroge that features rape at all or just the really ero-focused ones that center on it?

>> No.2671440

brb, off to create speakeasies.

>> No.2671441
File: 9 KB, 209x168, 1240459998372.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671441

>>2671424
>60% of all eroge
>10% to 20% of the entire industry

>> No.2671445

Now I'm waiting for the ban to affect all doujin material. What a wonderful day for the rights of non-existent people.

>> No.2671448

I'm not into rape but this is complete bullshit, especially since it's because of the Rapelay fiasco. It's quite frightening that sensationalist media can affect the law and economy of a foreign nation.

>> No.2671449

What the fuck is this faggotry?

>> No.2671453

I don't know how the business works, but would it be possible for the member companies to pull out and start a new committee?

>> No.2671454

2 full threads of the same topic is enough bro. There's nothing much to discuss about it already. More of the same thread would just invite trolls.

>> No.2671457

>>2671417
Fuck right, underage.

America has its hands in Japan's entertainment for too fucking long. They forced the CERO, now this?

Fuck this, I'm spraypainting someone's house.

>> No.2671462

>forced transfer of magic powers
This is what's going to happen. When incest was banned people just skirted it with non-blood related and the review committees didn't seem to give much a shit.

>> No.2671466

Wave goodbye to any chance of Tsukihime 2 being 18+.

>> No.2671467

>>2671462
Since when was incest banned?

>> No.2671468

Where is the down point here ... all the sex will have to be happy sex. Seriously, rape and sex rarely actually add things to the games they are in and the few exceptions that they do are hardly worth bawwing about.

>> No.2671469

>>2671467
It's not anymore, it used to be.

>> No.2671471

Simply replace the word "Rape" with something else like "Angry Sex".

>> No.2671473

Women's rights organizations are correct to focus on this issue. Next they should force a ban on all questionable material. I mean, since they've totally eradicated real life rape and female circumcision and forced marriage, they may as well. Right?

>> No.2671476

>>2671441
Those are just the games that are explicitly part of the genre. Most eroge arn't "rape games", but still have at least one instance of rape, which is where the 60% figure comes from.

>> No.2671477

>>2671466
Oh yes, because we're going to miss so much of Nasu's brilliantly written sex scenes. How will we ever live without our shellfish analogies.

>> No.2671482

It's over, Japan is finished.

>> No.2671484

Baldr Sky banned from sale?

>> No.2671487

"Equality Now"? What, is there not enough "equality" in the world? What is "equality"? "Equality" is wearing short skirts and having promiscuous sex.
A woman telling a male co-worker he is beautiful is the best day in that man's week. A man telling a female co-worker she is beautiful is the worst day in that man's career. "Equality"? A woman is picked instead of a competent man to sit on the Supreme Court. "Equality"? A woman is allowed to hit men, but men can't hit women. "Equality"?

>> No.2671488

>>2671417
You mean feminazis.

>> No.2671489

Why do they want to ban all the fun things?

>> No.2671490

>>2671468
But all sex is rape as far as those crazy american bitches are concerned.

>> No.2671491

>>2671466

Poor Sacchin will never get the chance to do Shiki.

>> No.2671492

>>2671484
And Saya no Uta and Fate/stay Night and Tsukihime and... More than half of all eroge.

>> No.2671499

>>2671492

Is it a retroactive ban?

>> No.2671505

>>2671492
Wth.... Saya no UTa was technically sticking a penis into an alien.... how can you rape a slimely Alien?

>> No.2671509

I think it's a fine day to commit mass suicide

>> No.2671510

>>2671490
EN aren't the ones setting the criteria though. That is part of the point. What needs to be done is to sit back and see what happens. We do not know what the criteria is going to be other than "not rape" they haven't ironed anything out yet.

>> No.2671513

And this is bad how?

>> No.2671514
File: 46 KB, 300x300, dat mass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671514

>> No.2671518

>>2671477
Considering most people here fapped furiously in at least one Tsukihime scene, we lose that chance.

>> No.2671519

>>2671505
gotta love technicalities

>> No.2671522

>>2671499
Its not a ban on the game, its a ban on the sale or production of the game.

>> No.2671526

>>2671505
a female alien you stupid :3

>> No.2671529

Fucking bitches and whores. I hope all the women who fought for this get raped and killed while their pussywhipped lovers cry an endless stream of impotent tears.

>> No.2671532

>>2671513
If you don't see the problem then it's impossible to explain it

>> No.2671534

>>2671522
hahaha owow could you please stop playing the weazel or are you fucking jewish?

>> No.2671535

Does that include yaoi rape?

>> No.2671537

>>2671510
I think no matter what criteria they set it's pretty ridiculous that they're going to enact censorship just because some foreign organization is trying to force their morality onto the industry.

>> No.2671539

>>2671535
All men want sex so yaoi rape is an oxymoron.

>> No.2671541

>>2671539
How about a gay man violated by a woman or monster?

>> No.2671543

>>2671522
It's not a govt enforced ban, just a partial industry body enforced ban. Result: You can't sell games using some words in some shops. The zepy article is inaccurate, they should get their news right.

>> No.2671544

>>2671535
Well, guess even this has its goos sides.

>> No.2671545

ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THESE FUCKING JEWS

THEY'RE EVERYWHERE, THEY SHOULD BAN BLEACH INSTEAD

>> No.2671547

>>2671535
Only women can get raped, remember?

>> No.2671548

Who cares?

We will see rape games in the future anyway.

>> No.2671549

All rape games are now abandonware! Download rape games for free!

>> No.2671550

>>2671543
Anybody care to give us an accurate translation?

>> No.2671552

>>2671537
except that its not really that bad of a request. Its not like they were saying "lol, take all sex out of your video games. thats all rape". They just asked for them to stop producing rape games. So Japan said "ok we will stop adding rape into our our games". This isn't really such a bad thing. Rape rarely adds to stories and a decent writer can just write around it. The only people hurt by this are people who can't write worth a damn.

>> No.2671556

>>2671552
Since when did people give a shit about writing in rape themed eroge?

>> No.2671557

>>2671552
Dude, it's porn.
Fictional rape is a fetish. That's all. Saying 'NO, it's bad to pretend it's rape, have them fuck each other in the ass normally' is just ridiculous. Especially with fictional textures slapped on polygons
>>2671547
Equality sucks.

>> No.2671559

>>2671543
So will r◯pe games be OK?

>> No.2671560

>>2671552
The lack of writing quality is hardly the point.
Sure, I'll give it to you that it's usually a cop out by the writer, but a ban on it constitutes someone (be it the women's "organizations", the industry, or whoever) enforcing a ban based on their subjective morals on someone else. Rape is something that happens in real life, so it will always find it's way into stories; In the case of VNs, they're pretty much just fap games anyways, lets admit it, so of course they're going to visually depict it.

>> No.2671566

Can anyone name a single good eroge/VN with rape in it? As far as I'm aware the only thing that comes close is YMK, which I haven't played, but shit, who cares? Most of the types of eroge which feature rape are hardly comparable to the quality of good VNs with decent stories etc like type-moon stuff or Planetarian.

In short, who cares?

>> No.2671567

Those feminists and other fascist anti-fascist movements / organizations will never stop. Next thing is you won't be allowed to depict females in any kind of inapproriate manner. A woman saying ~uguu in your media of choice will be labeled as uncorrect, leaving behind the impression women were inferior beings and down-playing the centuries long pain of female oppresion

>> No.2671569

>>2671552
Any demand against freedom of speech is bad. I don't care for rape in games either but even I can see that much.

>> No.2671570

>>2671557
And here i was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and go for the "I read about rape" and not the "I like the simulate rape". You sir need help. You are why this needed to be done. Without games like rapelay you would likely have never seen a ban like this happen. Simulating rape is a terrible thing to be doing.

>> No.2671572

>>2671552
But where does this 'not that bad of a request' stop? They're censoring something that people enjoy in the privacy of their own homes. Not to mention that all of the characters are fictional.

Just because you can write around it doesn't mean you should ban it for being potentially offensive.

>> No.2671574

Back when the whole rapelay idiocy was happening I predicted the Japs would be spineless enough to cave in, but I didn't imagine they'd take it so easily and so deep up the ass.

>> No.2671575

>>2671566
We're talking about fap games here, not VNs.

>> No.2671577

>>2671566
Tsukihime has rape. Crescendo has rape. Saya no Uta has rape.

>> No.2671578

>>2671566
I care, forced sex is my fetish.
As it is for others.

I don't care about writing quality, but it sets a bad precedent to accept shit like that.

>> No.2671579

>>2671566
Saya no Uta, Tsukihime

>> No.2671582
File: 13 KB, 386x330, 1236290346408.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671582

>>2671570

Okay, you can stop now

>> No.2671584

>PC software independent review committee
>approximately 200 member companies
You guys are stupid. This isn't a law, this is a voluntary code of conduct agreed upon by game producers. Doujin games will still have all the sicko stuff you want.

>> No.2671585

>>2671570
Butthurt raped little boy detected

>> No.2671587
File: 91 KB, 800x600, swansong.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671587

>>2671566
>Can anyone name a single good eroge/VN with rape in it?
Swan Song

>> No.2671591

>>2671566
Sengoku Rance.

>> No.2671596

>>2671577
Fair enough with Tsukihime, but it isn't handled in a 'fap game' like way. As for SnU, haven't played it, but I can't imagine it's handled like it is in something like RapeLay, with simulation elements.

I just think you're huffing and puffing yourselves up into a feigned rage about that. It's not like this is going to mean worthwhile stuff such as FSN is banned.

Stop feigning moral/anti-moral outrage. It reminds me of ISM and makes me MAD and ANGRY as a result.

>> No.2671597

>>2671543
Bull because this is exaclty how goverments work and in Japan "self-control" is part of the culture so that nobody will make a fuss about it but adapt. You must be naive to believe that a industry will bite themselves in the back by banning a popular theme, just because they were being funny

>> No.2671598

If them banned rape because it can motivate people to do it in real life, why do they show mega violent movies on TV at the most tv-crowded times of the day?
Aren't they afraid of people killing one another because of entretainment?

>> No.2671600

>>2671566
T-M games have rape, retard.

>> No.2671607

>>2671600
The problem is the simulator part, apparently.

>> No.2671608

>>2671566

Pretty much every Nitro+ title has rape in some form.

>> No.2671604 [DELETED] 

I think they should require every female character to be depicted wearing pants in those games, because it hurts the self-esteem of women who should instead reject the usage a clothes symbolizing the supremacy of the heteronormative partiarchy.

>> No.2671609

I think they should require every female character to be depicted wearing pants instead of skirts in those games, because it hurts the self-esteem of women who should instead reject the usage of clothes symbolizing the supremacy of the heteronormative patriarchy.

>> No.2671611

So this is just rape simulators?

>> No.2671612

People saying "lol well gaise its not that bad" or "well there weren't that many good rape games anyways" have an intense desire to repeat history, or have no spines.

>> No.2671613

>>2671596

Exactly, if this means that anything with a depiction of rape is going to be banned then that's shitty and I'd protest against it. But all it means is that rape simulations are going to be banned and in all honesty rape simulations and really shitty, regardless of your moral stance.

>> No.2671615

Leave tripfag. You don't belong here. Join commonPurpose and have fun ordering people around.

Rape is always a good choice, it like salt in a tasty dish. Rape can enrich any kind of story and many good stories have rape elements. Period.

>> No.2671620

Too bad all otaku are spineless cowards who aren't going to even try to protest.

>> No.2671621

>>2671613
>>regardless of your moral stance.
Yes, I have said your moral stance has no relevance here, therefore it must be true!

GTFO, if you really thought it was because rape simulations aren't entertaining, you'd think the industry should just have standards for rape simulations so that they are GOOD. You wouldn't support a ban for it unless you had a moral stance against them.

>> No.2671623

>>2671613
That's not the point. You don't ban things just because they're shitty. What? Is there some quality overlord out there I'm not aware of?

>> No.2671627

>>2671615
Coulda just said "I LOVE RAPE, PERIOD!"

>> No.2671628

Aren't the japs squicky in general about violence in games because of the interactive element, but okay with it in movies because of the voyeur element?

I mean they released Kill Bill without censorship in the Crazy 88 scene but censored Resident Evil 4 and so on.

Which then brings out the irony in the fact that aside from sim-games like Illusion's lineup, LoveDeath and Rapelay and so on, eroges in general are barely interactive.

>> No.2671629

>>2671596
It's not about whether or not the games I like are going to be banned. It's the fact that an American women's "rights" organization has enough clout to cause this kind of shit.

>> No.2671630
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2671630

Another victory for Responsible Christians!

>> No.2671632

>>2671566
Shirou raped Kotaku in Fate stay Tsukihime.

>> No.2671637

>>2671620
Most of us don't care you creep. As >>2671613
said, if it affected depictions of rape in a story in which that was required (as some Visual Novels have depicted) then we'd care. We just don't care enough about your disgusting fantasies to "demonstrate", we think you idiots give us a bad name anyway.

>> No.2671643

>>2671629
Yeah, this is more of the reason for me also. I don't really care about the games.

>> No.2671645

>>2671637
Shut up, woman.

>> No.2671653

Only faggots and women hate rape.

>> No.2671654

>>2671632
So what? Where it's integral to a particular story or route of a VN it doesn't matter, because it won't be banned. Other people have put it better - namely pointing out that simulations of rape are what is being banned. I have no qualms with that, in fact I support it wholeheartedly. And if you dare respond to me with some shit about freedom of artistic license, trying to pretend something like RapeLay is up there with a beautiful bronze or a great film or even a great Visual Novel, then you're just deluding yourself.

Sometimes I'm glad to be a normalfag.

Anyways come to /v/, we're having a thread on what you could do if you could go back in time to change the video game industry.

>>>/v/31774639

See how much more easy going /v/irgins are? /jp/ should be more easy going too. Sometimes I'm kind of glad to be a seminormalfag....

>> No.2671657

Let's rape random women in protest.

>> No.2671661

>>2671654
Shut the fuck up, you stupid woman.

>> No.2671662

>>2671654
>easy going
>/v/

>> No.2671666
File: 25 KB, 704x396, 1228019396380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671666

>>2671654
>athens !SysNpnp3nU
>normalfag

>> No.2671672

>>2671666
When I eventually have sex and lose this albatross of virginity, which I will, then I will take my rightful place amongst the elite of the normalfags on their pantheon.

>> No.2671677

>>2671613
>in all honesty rape simulations and really shitty
They seem to sell, so your opinion is invalid. If they didn't appeal to anyone, they wouldn't sell, and they wouldn't be made.

>> No.2671675 [DELETED] 

>rape simulations
Would you people stop making up random shit? Or are you guys from the future and you traveled back to inform us on what they decided?

>> No.2671679

>>2671672
Yeah, it's not that hard for women such as yourself to lose their virginity.

>> No.2671685

>>2671657

If you're going to do the crime, at least track down the members of Equality Now who pushed for this and use them.

>> No.2671687

>>2671672
You've gotten so bad at trolling.

>> No.2671688

Athens, why do you hate freedom?

>> No.2671690

>>2671654
>seminormalfag
>normalfag

pick one you contradicting dick

>> No.2671691

Quit fagging things up again, athens

>> No.2671693

>>2671654
It doesn't matter how shitty Rapelay and other games like it is, you can't agree that it should be banned just because it offends some feminazis.

>> No.2671698

>>2671672
Uhhh so Athens...I was wondering if uhm you'd like to do something sometime?

>> No.2671699

>>2671693
The committee can do whatever the fuck it wants. If they wanted to ban games that feature tophats it would be their right. Nobody is forcing the companies to be members.

>> No.2671705

>>2671687
And yet he's apparently making you mad, which is what trolls do.

>> No.2671708

Fucking Bitches and Whores.

>> No.2671711

>>2671654
this is about /jp/, and if you don't like /jp/ well you can giiiit out.

>> No.2671712

>>2671705
Calling someone a bad troll means that the troll made them mad?
Fascinating.

>> No.2671714

>"Laws which remove the personal freedoms of people simply to appease the ego of some prudish fascist are not only disgusting, but antithesis to everything a fair and free society stands for. As long as nobody is being harmed, they have no right to force you to stop. Such laws as have been passing recently under the guise of 'protecting people' are nothing but a thin veneer which hides such anti-socialist ideals."

>> No.2671720

It's so damn easy to chip away free speech nowadays, every country is giving into this fad.
Just start by the stuff nobody will want to be associated to by defending it like rape or neo-nazis, and in twenty years we will debate whether it's really OK to depict sex in fiction without first showing a scene where both participants fill in a standardized form of informed consent, preferably in front of witnesses.

>> No.2671722

You are stupid tripfag.
First they banned sexual activities for fun's sake, then they shunned it via propaganda and, after that they tried to prohibit the depiction of any kind of sexuall activities and now in the year of 2009 the latest bastion of sexual revolution are sex simulations games, a sub-genre of wide array of the computer / virtual sex section . How silly.

>> No.2671724

>>2671699
So if the ESRB decided to ban all violent video games you wouldn't have a problem with it?

>> No.2671725

>>2671712
YOU ARE A BAD TROLL plus a sage looks like he at the very least made you care enough about him to respond disapprovingly.

>> No.2671728

>>2671407
...Well fuck. Does this mean I'm going to have to go out and rape a real woman to satiate my less-beloved desires?

>> No.2671730

>>2671714
In this case, I question if this applies. As a simulator it has a chance to bring out deeper rooted desires that may or may not have been known to the person. These then, in some, do get acted upon. This is a problem that has been plaguing the entertainment industry for ages. It doesn't happen to all, but it does happen to some.

>> No.2671732

How do you appease a moral panic?
By giving them an inch and making them feel they won the war.

This is probably for the best. With the media coverage and backlash eroge were suffering, its best to shift the attention before things get real ugly.

What bothers me is how what were effectively nothing but misinformed rants got enough attention to affect the industry. With the current public opinion on this medium, I wouldn't be surprised to see a re-run of the whole Seduction of the Innocent fiasco. And that nonsense affected a whole industry for almost 50 years. Let's hope this doesn't escalate any further.

Also, how are the otaku reacting to this anyway? They are the ones that actually get affected. Unless the game makers switch to off-shore development and digital distribution, they're pretty much boned.

>> No.2671733

>>2671724
They already did for extreme violence. No editor would ever want an AO unless the game has sex, because AO means that no store would ever want to sell it.

>> No.2671737

>>2671730
Somebody who lets shitty games affect him that much, could also be affected by books with words, or watching movies.
SHitty argument is shitty and not applicable.

>> No.2671738

>>2671730
And with what you've just said, you can't be against the banning of video games, movies with violence, tabletop RPG games, and such without being an extreme hypocrite.

Enjoy your contradictory views.

>> No.2671739

>>2671699
>>2671724
Right. Nobody has the right to force shops to sell games.

There's no threat of violence. Only voluntary economic punishment. Those who really want to make violent/rape games will do it anyway.

>> No.2671740

>>2671732
The only thing shifted here is the overton window. This sort of thing couldn't have happened ten years ago.

>> No.2671745

>>2671739
>Those who really want to make violent/rape games will do it anyway.
Not those who want to actually make a profit and survive as a company.

>> No.2671746

>>2671732
Giving an inch...

>> No.2671749

>>2671730
>These then, in some, do get acted upon
Not in the majority of cases. Myself included. If nothing else, why should I suffer for the faults of another?

>a chance to bring out deeper rooted desires that may or may not have been known to the person
I seriously doubt that could happen in the first place. I find it unlikely that someone with no established interest in simulated rape would approach such a game as Rapelay. I also find it absurd that interacting with a 2d woman would make someone a rapist but not interacting with a 3d woman. The latter is the one that you can actually rape. I'd say exposure to real world women is a hell of a bigger catalyst than 2d women.

>>2671732
>By giving them an inch and making them feel they won the war.
The problem with that is that they have, even if not a lot. And there's always a good chance that they will continue to have moral panics and continually get these "inches".

>> No.2671750

>>2671737
Aircraft simulators that had shit graphics (if it wasn't just a mirror running over a belt with trees and shit on it) worked well why? They ingrained the activities in you as you did the exact same thing over and over again.

>> No.2671753

>>2671732
>Unless the game makers switch to off-shore development
What the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.2671759

>>2671745
Right. Too bad for them. Do you think that shops should be forced to sell games? All games in the world? Just the games that you like?

>> No.2671762

I agree with Athens on this point actually. I just don't see how anyone could enjoy rape simulations, some of you need to lighten up a bit, it's not that big a deal.

>> No.2671768

>>2671753
I think he means not making the games in japan, chief.

>> No.2671773

>>2671762
You're telling other people to lighten up while saying that you can't understand how someone could possibly enjoy something that you don't?

>> No.2671774

>>2671768
For what fucking reason?

>> No.2671775

A key difference between American and Japanese cultures is that things of a considered bad moral character are instantly outlawed, we pretend they do not exist and we completely cut off those emotions/desires from society.

Where as Japan gives an outlet to all normal, yet dark tendencies. This allows exploration. This keeps people from doing dark things to actual people. This keeps people sane- and it lets us know that that there is a little monster inside all of us.

>> No.2671776

>>2671750
They're for training one to be GOOD at flying. Users of this software use it because they already decided they want to be able to fly in real life. Rape sims are just for fun, for escapism, for wanking.

Are there any that 'train' the player to be a proficient rapist? To cover their tracks and pick targets sensibly and get away with it? I'd like to hear if there are!

>> No.2671778

>>2671750
That's because those were actually laid out like aircraft, and let you get used to the controls. Rapelay and similar games are played by clicking various options.

>> No.2671780

>>2671762
It's a big deal because it's a very fucking broad category to ban, and it's being banned for a retarded reason.

>> No.2671781

>>2671774
Don't ask me.

>> No.2671782

>>2671762
I don't see how anyone could like gay sex, but I'd still be really fucking mad if someone tried to ban gay porn.

>> No.2671783

>>2671774
Because if they pull out of the industry organizations
They are fucked economically, and since a business is an economic organization anyways. that's highly illogical

De facto law is essentially the same as de jure law.

>> No.2671784

>>2671762
You're telling us to lighten up when you're the one in favour of a ban? Oh wow.

>> No.2671786

>>2671730
You can't just mention this aspect and ignore the other. These simulations also help some people to keep dangerous urges under control. Not that this would ever get studied, but I'd bet the net result is positive for society.

>> No.2671790

>>2671750
Aircraft simulator? That's the weakest analogy I've ever fucking heard to a fap game. Please hang yourself, you're bad at discourse.

>> No.2671791

I find it funny how people are claiming that these things allow an 'outlet' for this aggression. Firstly if you have these sexual tendencies then you probably have low self-esteem to begin with whether you are a man or a woman.

>> No.2671794

>>2671776
It doesn't matter the purpose. It does vaguely the same thing in the mind, just not as well. That is what a simulator does, the more repetitive it is the more ingrained it will become.

>> No.2671795

>>2671762
>I just don't see how anyone could enjoy rape simulations
>I just don't see how anyone could enjoy something I can't enjoy
>I just can't wrap my little brain around the fact that people are different, and enjoy different things

>> No.2671796

Oh Sweet Bob Ross, please let this be a troll.

>> No.2671798

>>2671791
>>then you probably
Sorry, you failed already right here.

Any argument that says "WELL IF YOU LIKE X THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY ALREADY A BAD PERSON" in defense of a free-speech ban is a failed argument.

>> No.2671799

Doesn't this situation makes you remember to the case of the Comics Code Authority?
It all started somehow like this and the companies pussied out from the media attention.

>> No.2671801

>>2671791
Oh good, it's only people with low self-esteem who commit rape. I guess we're all safe since people with low self-esteem don't exist.

>> No.2671806

I can't stand it when people misuse the term 'artistic license'.

Look up the case of Cremutius Cordus. That is artistic license being infracted. This is just... a shitty game no one cares about being banned. The same kinds of people that care about this are the kinds of people that care about CCTV cameras being put up.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

>> No.2671807

>>2671786
Like me. I keep Rapelay installed on my computer for one reason, and one reason only; to keep myself indoors whenever I get that urge to go out into the streets and find somebody to dominate. Rapelay lets me see a 'person' get dominated, forced to do things against her will, and treated like an object, and does all this without hurting anybody at all. Even better, as the months go by I'm starting to find myself empathizing with the women. Not enough to stop playing, but I think I'll get there.

>> No.2671810

>>2671791
Your sentence makes no sense because there are a few birds in my garden right now

>> No.2671811

>>2671762
It's what it represents. A group of loud activists that didn't make a proper research defining what can be sold and produced.
It might not be your thing, you may even find it disgusting, but it can become a slippery slope towards censorship if allowed to go unchecked.

This is always relevant:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

>>2671753
Can't prosecute if the game is produced and developed outside of Japan, at least the way I interpret the article. Actual restriction may be different, we don't really have all the details right now.

>>2671749
You're right, it could give the reverse effect of exhilarating them with a sense that they have influence and begin prosecuting more that perverted Japan.
Or the fact that this, along with the guy pleading guilty as pedophile over imported manga will put this in the spotlight and instead of being a unilateral exposition of the perversion, it allows to the public to see it as it is. Ink on paper.

Or it could get even worse. It's hard to tell with people.

>> No.2671812

>>2671794
I don't suppose you have any scientific evidence for this baseless assertion.

saying "LOL ITS A RAPE SIMULATION SO IT MUST MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO RAPE OTHERS IRL" does not work, and has never worked as an argument.

Sorry, you have to do better.

>> No.2671818

>>2671746
AN ANGRY INCH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV0tguuYsJ8

>> No.2671819

>>2671759
The shops didn't have any problems with selling those games until Equality Now started bitching about shit they had no right to complain about.

>> No.2671821

To those of you claiming that this game channels dangerous urges elsewhere, are you claiming that it's a necessity for some of you otherwise you would be out on the streets raping people?

>>2671807 seems to think so for himself.

>> No.2671823

>>2671762
It is. if you are an adult you should care. How silly morals police and obscenity laws are in our days, though they never ceased to exists someone can only understand, if he had seen it with his own eyes. You know what they did when pc gaming went popular in Germany with one of the strongest restrictions on media? Valve and Westwood had to change their games complety, so Valve made turned all soldier models in Half-Life into ugly-looking robots and C&C games had to change the sounds and and the color of blood of human units in-game but more important to change the whole scenario in the story mode and the concept from human warfare into android warfare. I'm not kidding. Television restrictions were even worse, harmless movies like Casablanca were heavily censored and changed on national television.

>> No.2671826

>>2671806
>a shitty game no one cares about being banned.
This very thread proves without a shadow of a doubt that people care about it being banned.

You suck at this whole "argument" thing. I suggest you go to college.

>> No.2671827

I'm going to report Athens posts from now on, as he no longer makes pretense of being anything but a troll.

I encourage you all to do the same.

>> No.2671828

>>2671806
It's not one shitty game, though. It's an entire genre of games of varying quality.

>> No.2671839

>>2671823
I remember how in Carmageddon, in some countries the pedestrians bled normal red blood, in some the blood was green, and in Germany the pedestrians were exploding robots.

Germany is fucking nuts.

>> No.2671840

>>2671806
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
But I have plenty to hide. I certainly don't want others to see my multi-gigabyte collection of futanari hentai. I'm pretty sure that's not illegal though.
Don't think that just because I'm not breaking the law (well, it's illegally downloaded, but even if I owned the physical copies I wouldn't want people to see it so it's irrelevant) doesn't mean that I don't have things I want to keep private.

>> No.2671841

>>2671821
No, we're saying that
"LOL IT MAKES PPL WANT TO RAPE OTHER PEOPLE"
is balanced by the opposite effect, which is that it gives people a sexual outlet, just like ANY OTHER PORN IN EXISTENCE, so the idea that banning games with rape in them is somehow going to reduce rape rates is fucking uninformed, ridiculous, and frankly a shallow veneer for a moralfag argument.

I challenge you to ban all porn worldwide and see what happens to rape rates.

>> No.2671845

>>2671818
I was referring to the idiom, but that's pretty good actually.

>> No.2671849

>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
SEIG HEIL MEIN FUHRER

Protip: Law doesn't make right. People will always have things that they don't want others to know about whether or not they are legal. YOU have things you hide from us athens, I have things I hide from others.

There's nothing wrong with that.

>> No.2671852

in before they just put mosaics over the word "rape" and continue to produce as normal.

>> No.2671853

>>2671823
You can blame liberals for that in Germany. The same liberals who have pretty much extinguished all semblence of German pride.

>>2671828
It looks like it will be rape simulations that will be banned.

>> No.2671860

>>2671806
There's nothing artistic about the post you just made, therefore you have no right to make it.

>> No.2671861

>>2671841
banning porn would be moralfaggish and stupid. this is pretty much just banning rape simulators which is not really such a bad idea, especially for Japan.

>> No.2671866

Japan is one step closer to becoming a bland, neutered country like America.

>> No.2671868

>>2671819
They had 'no right to complain'? They should have been forcibly shut up, censored, eh?

>> No.2671869

>>2671861
>which is not really such a bad idea, especially for Japan.
>LAWL BUT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!
You're such a hypocrite it makes my teeth hurt.

>> No.2671871

>>2671852
レ〇プ

>> No.2671872

>>2671853
Exactly. That's half of Illusion's stock, not to mention any other companies that do this kind of thing.

>> No.2671874

It's sad that nobody has the balls anymore to say they'll always defend other people's right to say anything, no matter how strongly they disagree with it.
I'd never play this game, it would just make me feel disgusted and depressed, but I know for a fact we're all better off if it can exist.

>> No.2671877
File: 97 KB, 946x472, 1240779922554.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671877

>>2671812
>LOL ITS A RAPE SIMULATION SO IT MUST MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO RAPE OTHERS IRL

Phrasing your opponent's argument in a silly manner is a sign of poor debating skills.

>> No.2671879

>>2671861
>banning porn would be moralfaggish and stupid. Unless it's porn I don't like.

>> No.2671881

>>2671869
Where did I say there would be exceptions?

>> No.2671883

Last Wednesday, I listened to a rock song.

Now I'm in jail.

Don't do drugs.

>> No.2671885

>>2671783
Not really, they can sell online and in some more niche shops. They might not be able to sell them in many popular gaming shops.

>> No.2671886

Today rape. Tomorrow futa/loli/homos. Next week all porn is outlawed. I don't even like rape but this is retarded.

>> No.2671894

>>2671877
Essentially, that is what his argument boils down to
In so many words
>If we allow fictional simulated rape video games to go on, rape rates will rise.
Better? The result is still the same, and the argument still sucks.

>> No.2671895

>>2671806
>>2671806
>Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
That's the most retarded of excuses I always hear when dealing with these sort of issues. You sir, are an idiot.
Who decides what's wrong? What is seen in some circles as acceptable, in others it will be prosecuted. If what you do affects nobody else, then what business do they have with it?

Then again, what to expect from the same nation that wanted to put all problematic children in a DNA database to track them as adults. Yeah, great idea, wankers.

Also, CCTV does shit to curb crime.

>> No.2671904

>>2671886
>Next week all porn is outlawed.
After that, sex will be banned. Then the world will die.

>> No.2671906

Parent Panic made Runouni Kenshin, One Piece and Dragonball to stop being broadcasted here.
No series that feature violence at a degree as the aforementioned series has aired for a good 5 years, regardless of timeslate.
Things change, and silly panic and censorship can affect things you care about eventually.
That's the point.

>> No.2671909

>>2671904
The world would probably thrive if humans were to go extinct.

>> No.2671913

Not liberals, but socialist in disguise, scholars of the school of authority,or how the free-thinker movement of masonry was hijacked by the class of control-freaks.

>> No.2671914

I hope some crazy nips protest by raping real girls because they can no longer rape their 2d girls.

>> No.2671915

>Equality Now
Oh boy, more liberal faggotry.

>> No.2671916

>>2671881
>this is pretty much just banning rape simulators which is not really such a bad idea, especially for Japan
Right there is where the exception to "banning porn would be moralfaggish and stupid" is that you said.

Essentially, see
>>2671879
>banning porn would be moralfaggish and stupid. Unless it's porn I don't like.
is what you're saying boils down to

>> No.2671918

>>2671895
Do you have any idea how many criminal law cases have had CCTV footage submitted as deciding evidence? In London the number is HUGE. CCTV has been a massive help in increasing clean up rates for shit like violent assault on saturday and friday nights.

>> No.2671919

>>2671909
Just look at Chernobyl. Humanity is the cancer killing Gaia.

>> No.2671922

ITT MASSIVE over reactions.

Let shit happen for a while a while and see what goes one. This will be an interesting experiment.

>> No.2671924

>>2671860
Yes, an American NGO really has no right to force their morality onto a foreign nation, especially when they're favoring the rights of fictional characters over those of living humans.

>> No.2671926

>>2671919
Of all the things you could have picked, Chernobyl? Chernobyl did jack shit.

>> No.2671928

>>2671918
live 24/7 video feed from your room or gtfo

>> No.2671930

>>2671811
>prosecute
Did you even read the article? Do you even know what you're talking about?

>> No.2671931

>>2671919
Actually, that area is greener now that an it has been in a VERY long time. I suggest you visit it some time.

>> No.2671932

lol athens trol u

>> No.2671937

>>2671906
Yes but you are mixing things uo a little bit. TV as a medium reaches everyone with a TV and the mentioned series were shown at kid time-slots or whatever. We are talking about adult media, made by adults for adults and are sold only to adults So you like that people without the slightest clue have the power to regulate your life? As an adult?

>> No.2671938

>>2671931
That was his point, nitwit.
Now that people are gone from the place, it's done much better

>> No.2671940

"NO! STOP! PLEASE DON'T"

>The next scene involves rape, would you like to continue?

Yes
No

>Yes

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"


They got around worse. Slap a warning on it to quell the Gina Brigade.

>> No.2671941

>>2671928
My room isn't a public place. City centers, public squares, fora etc are. Also private companies can put up cameras if they wish to, that's well within their rights to protect their premises.

>> No.2671942

>>2671909
I think he meant the human population of the world, friend.

>> No.2671944

>>2671938
Kill yourself, the world would be better off then right?

>> No.2671946

What would be the definition of "rape game" anyway?
If the girl mutters '...ok' after a while of groping and harassing her would be enough to count as consensual technically. Even if she later repents and tries to stop it, only for the act to continue forcefully.

What I'm saying is, there are loopholes to be exploited, just as the porn censorship turned into minuscule black bars in some cases.

>> No.2671948

Women fantasize about and enjoy rape. Prove me wrong.

>> No.2671949

>>2671918
Does it prevent crime? no.
They can use the tapes as evidence and send the fucker who killed uncle Jim to jail. But guess what, at the end of the trial, Uncle Jim is still dead.

>> No.2671951

what the fuck
and I thought this world had a bright future
I pity the generations after me, they're going to be subject to much worse discrimination and control than we are

>> No.2671952

>>2671941
But you have nothing to hide right?

>> No.2671953

>>2671906
I'd make a comment about stopping shitty anime from being watched, but it's kinda sad.

>> No.2671955

>>2671948
SOME women do. Not all of them. Just like SOME men do.

>> No.2671957

>>2671916
Except that IT FUCKING ISN'T. They could ban happy sex tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

>> No.2671961

>>2671926
You completely missed the point. With humans gone, Chernobyl is pretty darn green right now.

>> No.2671966

>>2671948
They fantasize about being dominated in degrading ways (well a lot of them do anyway, going by /r9k/ threads I've seen on the matter). But they're not excused either, their stupid magazines constantly talk about 'rape fantasies' and as a result trivialize it. Probably moreso than these games. That's fucking retarded too. Libido works like this: The more you indulge, the more of a high you need to get off next time. That's why marriage councillors sometimes tell married couples to abstain from sex/masturbation for a bit, so they'll actually start getting turned on by vanilla sex again.

>> No.2671972

>>2671957
Then you're a weak willed, pathetic faggot who cares nothing for freedom whatsoever.

And the next day they ban all porn, then the next day they ban all video games, then TV, then they install a CCTV in your room to make sure you're doing nothing illegal in there (It's for the children!)

Enjoy signing away your freedoms until you can do nothing but eat a thin gruel and sleep in a dirty corner without being prosecuted

>> No.2671974

It's a know fact that in Britan you as a citizen are not allowed to film or photograph at public places anymore, but private companies which work with the goverment, and the whole the police state apparatus. It's a fascist ideology and athens is a silly little butthurt reactionary who wants to punish other people for his own pereceived misery. Those ones are the first going wild in black uniforms.

>> No.2671975

I don't understand why no one thinks that these sort of games were keeping our rape meter well below the normal margin all these yrs

>> No.2671976

>>2671961
But they aren't gone. People live there. It also is still an active plant, people run it.

>> No.2671978

>>2671948
>>2671966
Don't you fucking dare start this shit again

>> No.2671980

>>2671952
Legally? Asides from downloaded OSTs fuck no.

I don't fap that regularly by 4chan standards, once every few days and so I don't keep porn on my computer. I only download OSTs, I buy films and games unless it is absolutely impossible to get my hands on a game either new or used (as was the case with ZoE 2 for example), I've never urinated in public, I've always been respectful to police officers, I don't litter.

Fuck.... Looking back at it, I'm a pretty model citizen by most estimations.

>> No.2671981

>>2671957
>I wouldn't care.

is the reason everyone is getting a rise out of you. You do care.

You're an idiot for posting in the first place and an idiot for going on.

LOL I TROL U won't work either. Just go.

>> No.2671983
File: 15 KB, 800x600, yesno.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671983

>>2671940

>> No.2671984

>>2671961
Could you please stop with your Gaia bullshit? Nature doesn't have morals, so you shouldn't have either. Nature settles things on it's own and life was always the greatest threat of life.

>> No.2671988

>>2671974
You people wanted all the immigrants here, you deal with the consequences (higher crime etc), that means more reactionary police powers. Gone are the days when a copper was your friend, wanna know why? Because blacks and their ilk created a whole culture around hating the police and authority and even going as far as to promote the murder of authority figures like police in their music.

Anyway, I don't really respect the average police that much. Good detectives though.... Fucking immense respect for those guys.

>> No.2671989
File: 52 KB, 700x542, 1241816574379.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2671989

Sure is misogyny in here

I love you /jp/

>> No.2671997

>>2671909
"The world" would go on more or less as it has until now, and as it would have if humans had never appeared. The best humans can manage is slightly altering the thin gaseous layer around some insignificant planet orbiting a mundane star in an average galaxy in a perfectly ordinary galaxy group.

>> No.2671999

>>2671978
I'm just pointing out that calling fantasies about being dominated 'rape fantasies' and insisting on dragging them 'out into the open' to accommodate a 'sexually free society' is stupid of women as well.

>> No.2672001

>Anyway, I don't really respect the average police that much. Good detectives though.... Fucking immense respect for those guys.
Exactly, because if you don't respect them and show it, they become suspicious and monitor you constantly.

This is the power of a police state. It oppresses the people, and the people do not revolt because they become complacent, weak willed faggots

>> No.2672004

>>2671972
If you really want your freedoms go out and fight for them yourself instead of bitching about them on the internet. I know that's what I would do. The day they come to install a CCTV in my house is the day they have to make it up a half mile of open-field while under fire.

>> No.2672006

>>2671988
Yeah because there were no corrupt police before rap culture.

>> No.2672007

>>2671794
This assumes that RapeLay actually does an adequate job of simulating real rape, which anyone who has actually seen the game in action can tell you is blatantly false.

>> No.2672013

>>2672001
I believe in Polybius' theory of stable mixed Government. I've never believed in complete freedom or democracy. Leaders should be allowed to lie for the public good.

Remember Aristotle's words to the Athenians during the Lamian uprising when they wanted to put him on trial:

"I won't allow you to sin against philosophy twice."

>> No.2672016

>>2672006
>Rap culture

Should be banned, way more damaging to society than RapeLay and that kind of shit.

>> No.2672017

/jp/ will be so much better once Athens is banned.

>> No.2672018

>>2671988
Protip: The white hippies were dicks to "the man" long before the blacks.

>> No.2672020

>>2672013
>Leaders should be allowed to lie for the public good.

I just choked on my coffee.
You sir, are a spineless degenerate, and that's all I have to say about that. I have nothing left to say to you, don't bother responding to me.

>> No.2672021

>>2671984
Fine. I'll stop with my Gaia bullshit! Just for today! Happy?

>> No.2672025

Does that mean that my 2d onee-samas won't be allowed to molest me anymore before I click "I agree"? Because that would really be experience-ruining to be in control like that.

>> No.2672027

>>2671980
Why didn't you import the soundtracks?

>As Cardinal Richelieu said, "If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find something in them to hang him."

Visiting 4chan could be considered a fault as well. CP is accessible, and they won't make the consideration that you only accessed a few boards without harming anyone.

The problem is that judgment comes from an arbitrary, flawed source. And I know you're all for studying law, but when a nation decides that is better to sacrifice basic rights of its inhabitants just for a perceived feeling of safety, then the whole concept must be re estimated.

Also, http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/cctv_cameras.html
Fuck your Airstrip One London.

>> No.2672049

>>2671940
"You don't really wanna do this do you?"

>Yes

"Ok, I understand...I will try to enjoy it...."

Problem Solved. Sick Bastards.

> :3

>> No.2672051

No you are getting the fact wrong, intenionally. the people weren't the ones demanding mass immigration of people oif completly different cultures with a questionable educational background. All of Europe have the same problems, it's "almost" like it was planned this way by the ones in power and their corrupt minions in the goverments. Reasons? Forced multi culture to destroy the concepts of nationaiity, to stimulate the economies (lower wages, new credits, pension funds, open borders) , whatever it centers around the greed of the global elites backed by the local goverments who want to power grab as much as possible. Sure there are side-effects which were calculated by not intentional like illegal immigration and the upcoming rising streams of refugees.

>> No.2672053

>>2672020
They should. Should a leader tell his people about something that would cause mass panic? No, leaders need to lie sometimes.

>>2672027
I never said they were an effective deterrent, I said they helped clean up rates, which is perfectly tenable.

As for the OSTs, meh. I suppose that's an infraction of sorts, but it is a remarkably minor one.

>>2672018
They were rarely as openly violent though. Rap culture is about violence, rap culture presupposes the reason for the black community's problems is whites. Black people by and large think that the reason they are poor is because an invisible white entity has made them poor and is keeping them poor. This invisible, omnipotent entity plays a role in every aspect of their daily lives for downtrodden blacks.

Take a look at your own Senate's voting records. The black senators all vote along racial lines, it's only white liberals who believe in a "lets all join hands and be happy" society.

>> No.2672061

Why are we talking about immigration now? God damn it. That's not the issue here, okay?

>> No.2672096

>>2672053
Not to mention this racial voting and what not is what has caused the US's current economic problem (or at least it is the major start of it).

>> No.2672106

>>2671725
lol trolled

>> No.2672115

Someone posted about this on Animenation and got this response

http://www.animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=6592911&postcount=15

>> No.2672116
File: 158 KB, 450x450, a9fd6a26ebe535ffacda84ad3888f71e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2672116

>>2672061
People can't ignore obvious trolls.
Let's go back to the topic.

>> No.2672128

A lot of you still don't seem to understand that it not only bans games that are explicitly of the genre, but any game with rape in it. This includes everything by Nitro+ and Type Moon.

>> No.2672131

The free movement of people is a fantastic thing. Ugly, divisive things like borders and nationalities are a relic of the 1900s and the #1 thing standing in the way of world peace, prosperity and advancement. All people deserve to be free of arbitrary distinctions and prejudice, free to live their lives wherever and however they wish.

It's a shame that the people allow fear and paranoia to rule them. The ones standing in the way of your own happiness are you yourselves! Break the senseless chains of your upbringing! Uplift yourselves to a higher, brighter, gentler level; become the children of the future! The world needs you!

>> No.2672141

>>2672013
>>2672016
so perfect for my tripfag folder

>> No.2672144

>>2672131

Hi, you must be new here!

>> No.2672147

>>2672131
White liberals believe this nonsense. Blacks don't give a shit. But carry on, it's like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up fuel for its own funeral pyre.

>> No.2672149

>>2672115
But we want our sick rape games dammit.

>> No.2672156

>>2672128
Everyone understood the situation long ago. They could have banned only one title and everyone would still react the same. They are fucking retarded to cave in to the demands of foreign kooks who are not taken seriously in their own country.

>> No.2672162

>>2672141
You think rap music is a positive thing? If there's one thing I can't stand more than 50 cent/eminem fans, it's people who think there is some kind of awesome 'underground' rap scene. Rap is shit by default. It will never be Verdi or even the Beatles. Stop pretending it has artistic merit you idiot.

>> No.2672183

>>2672162
>everything i don't enjoy is evil and corrupting society
athens is so far my favorite tripfag

>> No.2672192

>>2672183
You honestly think the shit rap music promotes is not corrupting society?

>> No.2672198

>>2672061
The issue is the naive belive in authority which always was controlled by the elites of a society which want to control the masses by restrictions that don't affect themselves in order to stay in power and loot the public like a parasite while living a nice life and engage in hypocrisy.


>>2672131
You can't merge totally different groups, societies, cultures in terms of wealth, education, believes out of greed (which means in a very cheap way) into an artificial unit through forced collectivism like some particular groups are trying since decades.
I don't care about national states, nationalty or whatever, this is not the case here.

The establishment is losing their power grip, the western civilization is in a downturn and we won't recover from it anymore,there are just too many problems.

>> No.2672211

>>2672192
no more than mention of drugs, sex, and violence do in rock, classic rock, or country

>> No.2672217

>>2672211
Is everything a false dichotomy to you or do you not understand the concept of things being in degrees?

>> No.2672237

>>2672192
The question should be why the gangsta bullshit became popular in certain areas. Why do the US have the highest numbers of prisoners in their silly private prison system?

>> No.2672243

>>2672217

You're an idiot. No really. Do you really believe that there wasn't any rock, pop, etc. that had excessive vulgarity and disgusting lyrics? Never breed.

>> No.2672252

>>2672217
I think we're just making blanket statements about genres based on the same end of the spectrum. Most rap to me feels like a poetic lamentation about conditions in the inner city, not glorification of the gangster lifestyle many of the people enter into.

>> No.2672254

>>2672237
Idiots will produce idiotic culture, this is simple ipso facto logic. You can't expect people with mental faculties of their level to produce a Bach Fugue or a Beethoven Symphony.

>> No.2672262

>>2672254
you are the best rage fuel ever, i am saving all of this

>> No.2672289

>>2672252
>poetic lamentation about conditions in the inner city

This is a beautiful elucidation of the idiocy of liberalism. Shit people will produce shit culture.

>> No.2672320

Common sense is rising the living standard = less crimes

You just can't admit your beloved authority messed up and the hell they don't even care. If things blow up they will just jet-set away, but until then there police state will clean up a bit but implode in the end.
How can you believe the system in the west can survive with fighting the symptons but not the causes? What is the cause for high youth crime rates? Music? I hope you are trolling.

Your authorities they now, but they don't care and some would want but can't correct it anymore, especially in the english speaking nations.

>> No.2672325

>>2672289
I'm trying to think of a way to be more elitist, but I just don't see it.

also, i think this thread is autosaging :(

>> No.2672325,1 [INTERNAL] 

The 2020 Olympics will fix this.™

>> No.2672325,2 [INTERNAL] 

And I'll fix your ass.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
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