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2658357 No.2658357 [Reply] [Original]

Don't try to be a hero kids.

It sucks.

>> No.2658363
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2658363

How long do I have to keep standing here ?

>> No.2658365

>>2658357
THE ENTIRE POINT OF UBW WAS THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE

>> No.2658370

>>2658365
But... he had regrets! It was not the only path!

>> No.2658381
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2658381

>>2658365

If it really was then we wouldn't have HF route.

>> No.2658392

>>2658365

THE ENTIRE POINT OF UBW WAS THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE UNTIL HE BECAME ARCHER, WHICH YOU KNOW HE WOULD

fix'd

>> No.2658416

>>2658381
you would choose ITS SPRING over hogwarts?

>> No.2658423

>>2658416

No, but Nasu himself confirmed that he preferred HF.

>> No.2658431

>>2658423
Yes but his taste are horrid.

And really mind of steel basically ends up archer and everyone loves mind of steel.

>> No.2658434

>>2658431
Mind of Steel is shit.

>> No.2658438

>>2658381
Err, no. The point of the routes is not that.

Also, being a hero does not suck, and it's not hwat Archer truly regretted.
It's more of the specific choices that plagued him in the afterlife.

>> No.2658443

>>2658431
Mind of Steel is not archer, just has some elements we wish result to Archer.

>>2658423
It's funny how his favorite characters and sublots/details are not the ones central in HF.

>> No.2658465

>>2658438

Speak for yourself, I remember him taunting Saber in UBW that she shouldn't interfere because ironically, they shared the same problem. Now look back what her problem is, would ya ?

>> No.2658484

This thread keeps reminding me how much I want Nasu to reveal his true background. Stop trolling and give me my Archer sidestory already , fuck.

>> No.2658504

>>2658363

for the love of Caladbolg, when will they release a UBW ova? ;_________;

>> No.2658499

>>2658465
The difference is, that while they have similarities, DURING his life, Archer never had regrets.
While Saber, at her life, was plagued with the results of her actions, questioning her worth and near the end of her life, making a pact trying to fix everything.
While Archer became plagued in his afterlife, and in the end started regretting his life because of something that happened after the end of it.
They are not identical situations.
As stupid as it was, Archer still considered the ideal beautiful and chased it during his life.

You should become better at distinguishing the details.

>> No.2658512

>mind of steel basically ends up archer

nope, if anything it's the contrary, Archer is who he is because he didn't give up his ideal to realism.
Archer is basically Shirou trying to become what Kiritsugu couldn't, and then feeling bitter at what he had become.
Mind of Steel is just Shirou becoming Kiritsugu.

>> No.2658532

>>2658504
There's a rumor that there will be a FSN movie.

>> No.2658540

>>2658532
There's also a rumor that the world will end in 2012.

>> No.2658542

>>2658532
...About what?
Any single route condense will not translate that well.

>> No.2658548

>>2658540
I still remember those Tsukihime remake rumors.
Ahaha, the silliness/

>> No.2658564
File: 20 KB, 350x353, archermemory.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2658564

>>2658499
>and in the end started regretting his life because of something that happened after the end of it.

Nope, he just finally saw what humanity really is, that it will continue on the same conflict over and over again.And each time there always are sacrifice. His hero ideal is basically nothing more than hypocrisy and self-lying. He just was able to come to this conclusion after being shown a larger....perspective, by whom he made pact with.

Arthuria at first thought that being the king wouldn't be so bad. That it is the task of the true warrior. Then after a lifetime of royalty, she finally realised it sucks for her and her people to be a king.

In short, they DO regret becoming what they are, a hero. Archer just realised it a little bit...too late.

>> No.2658565

wow people are still talking about FSN?
W.
T.
F.

>> No.2658581

>>2658565

Archer is one of the best things that ever happened to VN histories. We tend not to easily forget it.

>> No.2658586

>>2658564
Apart from seeing humanity from a bigger perspective, being forced to become a cleaner of humanity for pretty much FOREVER, a vastly different role than the one he strove all his life for, helps a lot to end up bitter.

>>2658565
...What?

>> No.2658632

>>2658586

He was prepared to be CG for eternity. Even in the end of UBW he still accepted doing it,for the only reliefs for him is that he hoped Rin would be able to somehow lead his other self from the strayed path he had gone on.

Archer's murderous intent on Shirou in Ryudoji temple clearly started when Shirou refused to do as he advised, that is, stop being a hero.

>> No.2658648
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2658648

>>2658581

He's GAR in all three routes, even that slutty HF one, so what's not to like ?

>> No.2658669

>>2658632
He wasn't.
At all.
He had no idea that was it meant to be a Counter Guardian.
Did you skip all the Archer flashback at the intermissions?
And the reason he tries to kill Shirou is in order to both vent his anger, prevent the same mistakes and slight chance of altering his fate.
The reason he doesn't move against HF Shirou is because he is unlikely to follow a similar path, which makes 'altering fate and taking anger out at stupid young version' pointless.

>> No.2658666

>Archer

Sounds gay, like a FAGGOT

>> No.2658688

>>2658632
Y'know, I've always thought that Archer saved Shirou so he could kill himself, but I'm beginning to think that, like you said, he hoped to stray him from his path with words rather than violence. He only resorted to that when he realized that Shirou would make the same mistakes no matter what.

>> No.2658689

>>2658666
...How does Archer sound gay or like Faggot?

>> No.2658699

>>2658689

Taking the bait, are you?

>> No.2658706

>>2658688
It's a combination of all of these.

'Mock stupid younger self. Warn and reason with him why that is stupid. Oh, he won't listen? You little fucker, if only I had myself to listen to back then...Very well, you will be my passage to a normal afterlife'

>> No.2658721

>>2658699
Not really, cause it fails even for trolling.
He didn't even make a connection with GAR or something.
It's hard to believe there could be such a nonsensical in a pointless and ineffective way troll post.

>> No.2658729

>>2658669

He thought he could keep on being a hero forever if he became CG. And for that end he WAS prepared to do it for eternity. You should go read some moar.

Like I said, he realised it too late that reality is harsh, being a hero(or CG)always has to sacrifice someone. To the ones he saved, he is the hero. To the ones he killed, he is nothing more than a murderer.

And had Shirou answered him differently during the Ryudouji temple raid, I doubted Archer would have any reason to stab him in the back like that. The way Shirou answered him was like spitting right into his face.Of course, he didn't know who Archer was then.

>> No.2658752

>>2658721

Hence he was CLEARLY trolling, you fucktard.

>> No.2658753

>>2658699
It's always fun to poke a troll and see if they can actually back their arguments up in any way.

Sometimes you just get "lololol I trol u", but every now and then you get someone really dedicated to their craft, and from that some of the most interesting discussions I have ever had are born.

It is well worth the effort for such a discussion.

>> No.2658762
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2658762

>Archer
>Saber

tl;dr Naive folks who thought being a hero is cool.Only to realise it too late that it isn't.

>> No.2658765

>>2658729

Not who you're replying to, but can you just run the discussion past me again? It's been fucking ages since I read UBW and my memory fails me.

>> No.2658767

>>2658729
...I can't read it more, it's the same text, over and over.
The point is, he wanted to keep helping people in need.And he thought that as a mighty CG, there would be NO NEED for sacrifices. AKA, not the fucking same thing as his life.And it proved to be even worse, since the world doesn't distinguish between innocents and guilty, or people in need. Just that this many people must die so the majority is fine.
Unless the intermissions where Rin is connected to Archer's mind is all one huge lie we should not take into account.

The way you present it, you make it sound like he just simply always did the exact same thing, dead or alive which is false.
And while the Temple situation stands, it is not a direct result of your argument.

>> No.2658771

>>2658669
>The reason he doesn't move against HF Shirou is because he is unlikely to follow a similar path
Ever since the UBW mirror moon patch I´ve heard a lot of this. But, is there any solid proof of this?

I mean, Archer gave up on his revenge when he said 'I guess there's no time for personal grudges, isn't that right Emiya Shirou?' right after the shadow first appeared.
It is strongly implied that Archer fought that shadow before as a CG (Don't ask how he remembers that) so it seems that Angra Mainyu has the power to wipe out humanity (the only threat level where CGs are allowed to intervene) and that Archer stopped his revenge for that reason.
This makes even more sense when you think that Archer doesn't have enough information to know that Emiya decided to give on his dream, simply because he gave up on it ten days after that event.

>> No.2658779

>>2658752
The point in trolling is making statements that will make people angry or try to counter arguments, not something so nonsensical that it can't be taken seriously nor is enraging in some way.

>> No.2658795

>>2658765

Shirou wanted to continue raiding the temple after being rescued by Archer(blaming him for letting her go in the process), going after Caster which has retreated into her lair.

Archer warned him not to. Saying that is was too dangerous. Shirou discarded this warning and insisted that he would go alone ,even without Archer's backup, because letting Caster lives means more lives are in danger.

When he turned around Archer stabbed him.LOL

>> No.2658799

>>2658771
It is not the ONLY reason, indeed.
There are many varying reasons and circumstances why Archer follows (or not) with his plan.
One of them in HF is Shirou having clear doubts about the hero of justice path and different priorities, where Archer warns him of the difficulties, but does not berate him or show any hostility or contempt (which happens mostly in UBW, since in Fate he is pretty much absent)

>> No.2658821

>>2658767

>And he thought that as a mighty CG, there would be NO NEED for sacrifices

That's the same thought process as when he was alive, remember why he trained himself as a mage ,duh? Being a CG was just a dead end for him. No more reload.

>he just simply always did the exact same thing, dead or alive

Exactly. Except that he has now come to the conclusion that being a hero is not all that great.

>And while the Temple situation stands, it is not a direct result of your argument.

How so ? It was the first scene that made us known Archer is clearly now hostile towards Shirou.

>> No.2658859

>>2658799

IIRC Archer barely spoke to him about that matters, only a few sentence of warning and consequences about betraying his own ideal.

And I really doubt Archer did not want him dead in that route. Since he would've known that grafting his own arm to Shirou would've destroyed him ultimately from ideal compatibility issues.

>> No.2658886

>>2658821
The important point is, Archer knew that while saving people in need he had to kill others, he hoped for no sacrifices. And the contrast in being a CG is that there is absolutely no distinguishing between people in need and people who cause the disaster. He does not even have a CHOICE anymore. It's a huge fucking contrast to the way he lived his life.

He is not a hero or protector of people in need, just a cleaner. If you say 'Oh, it's all the same, heroes who could not be heroes', it's a fucking huge oversimplifying that does not do justice to the guy's problems.

And the specific scene confirms the hostilty of Archer against Shirou, but it does not prove your point.
The debate here is not if he regretted his life and started hating his past self (which he does, it's the process of how Archer came to regret his life.

And I emphasize it's the contrast between his life and his afterlife, where thing became drastically different and actually worse , while you insist it was pretty much the same and just got bored of it.

>> No.2658919

>>2658859
It destroys him because of magical overflow, not ideal compatibility(ideal issue results on Shirou not deploying UBW). He gave him the arm in order to to do the job that needed to be done.

>> No.2659022

>>2658886
>he hoped for no sacrifices.

Yes. Just HOPED. But all the time lying to himself. Being CG just can't make him do that anymore, since it's in his plain sight all over and over again.

>It's a huge fucking contrast to the way he lived his life.

Is it ? I was pretty much sure it was the same kind of life he led on when he lived (sacrificed sides which has fewer.Saved everyone in the larger picture.)

>If you say 'Oh, it's all the same, heroes who could not be heroes'

wut ? I suggested you start re-reading my first argument again.

>The debate here is not if he regretted his life and started hating his past self

Let me remind you again before you're lost in these torrents of texts. The debate here is about whether or not he thinks being a hero actually is a bad idea.

>while you insist it was pretty much the same and just got bored of it.

This is where you twisted my argument. He did not get "bored" of it, he just come to the conclusion that all his past life was a failure, finally understanding what being a hero really means. After being "disillusioned", He concluded that it was all fucking wrong. Thus the first thing that triggered the whole Ryudoji incident we're talking about was Shirou's practise of heroism.

>> No.2659049

>>2658919

that, and the reason that Shirou has abandonned his ideal but still attempting to use its power. Remember Archer's warnings ?

>gave him the arm in order to to do the job that needed to be done.

Which is ?

>> No.2659082

>>2659049
To protect ilya for example?

>> No.2659125

>>2659082

I can think of even better reasons than that.

What I'm asking is whether you have the solid proof that Archer ever said/done anything about it.

>> No.2659155

>>2659022
Since we clearly interpret the same thing differently, to end this thing:
Being a hero is not a 'bad' idea. The perfect ideal cannot be achieved, but chasing after it was something that Archer did not regret. What led to his bitterness is his AFTERLIFE(which is very different), not his life. Your argument falls at 'lying to himself'. It's not like he had knowledge of what exactly CGs do. He MISTAKENLY believed he would be a more powerful version of the person he is and do waht he did on his life better, while he had to kill without having a say or choice to protect the ones he wanted.

>>2659049
Protect the ones he chose, like Sakura or Ilya.

>> No.2659180

>>2659049

Protecting Sakura. She's the whole reason why Archer left Shirou alone. Because she represents or embodies the sort of "Evil" Shirou needs to prevent himself from pursuing his ideal.

Archer did not hate Shirou because he wanted to become a Hero,Archer hated him because his goal was way too broad and impossible,it was a waste of their life to try and pursue that. And Sakura was a perfect distortion for that their ideal. So no,Archer does not regret being a hero, all he regrets is that he set his sights too high,wasted his life with only the hope that if he just works hard enough it will happen and, ultimately just had the reality of things forced in his face.

>> No.2659196

Shirou is a piece of shit. FSN would have been better if Gilgamesh was the hero.

>>
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