Esoteric 東方 Knowledge

[Anonymous No.]

I made a Touhou Iceberg that isn't full of dumb memes. Feel free to ask about stuff you wanna know more about. I can probably answer at least one every other day or someone else can if they know what the picture is talking about too.

[Anonymous No.]

Recognizing Takemoto is obscure? Really? What makes you think you're any kind of authority?

[Anonymous No.]

>isn't full of dumb memes
I disagree

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
now post the one full of dumb memes

[Anonymous No.]

Please go back to /v/.

[Anonymous No.]

where's Yellow Magic Orchestra then?

[Anonymous No.]

It's embarrassing to think you spent more than 5 minutes making something like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
>Feel free to ask about stuff you wanna know more about.
I'd like to contribute, but is one supposed to add truthful yet obscure trivia or schizo theories? Though I guess icebergs always end up mixing the two, the deeper you go especially.
>Trivia
-MIDI EoSD is the original soundtrack
-DiPP Meiling's theme is the original, EoSD is the remix
-scrapped Reimu's first line in EoSD
-scrapped PCB spells
-Gold Rush
-ZUN's tracks in unofficial works
-SWR was supposed to be 9.8
-EoSD/PCB height chart
-Alternate names for PC-98 tracks
-Lyrics for Innocent Treasures
-Rank in MoF
Most of these probably go in the upper-mid layers though.
>Theories (that aren't completely random)
-ZUN intentionally destroys certain headcanons
-DiPP isn't supposed to be solved
-Quirky vignettes DiPP is the original story, mystery murder was written later
-SA cast as the 7 Deadly Sins
-ZUN referencing other music (some of them are real, some are a stretch)
-Remilia can't manipulate fate
-alphes didn't return in ULiL due to HM artwork backlash
-Gensokyo is all a dream

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Please take it to Reddit or Twitter instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26029211
>MIDI EoSD is the original soundtrack
MIDI EoSD with the correct soundfont is god tier so that would actually make sense

[Anonymous No.]

Much better than this shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Some stuff to add :
Prismriver sister's Scottish background
Renko ancestor being Stephen Hawking
Sakuya's connections to Jack the Ripper
Chang'e is Eirin former identity
Marisa confessed granting life to Narumi in Imperishable Night
Hidden codes in WBaWC stage 6 background
Youkai mountain is Mt. Yatsugatake before its eruption 1200 years ago
Uwabami Breakers
Reimu in Magic Pengel
ZUN's pre-Touhou games

[Anonymous No.]

>>26048014
This one is hit or miss, which means it's infinitely better than OP's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26048142
You must be joking, that iceberg is 90% unfunny forced jokes

[Anonymous No.]

>>26048302
10% is infinitely better than 0%

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025298
Oh yeah? Name every single Takemoto reference, I dare you. If you cannot then your post is null and void. I'll tell you what you missed in the end.
>>26025313
If you're talking about theories then there's only like four in my picture and they're all based on good amounts of evidence with the exception of the Seihou thing which is really the out-there thing on the picture. The rest of the stuff is all true.
>>26027116
I specifically didn't include music-related influence stuff because there's a lot of songs predating Touhou that sound like Touhou tracks. Also the Rydeen thing is pretty common knowledge.
>>26028144
It took me about 15 minutes. You are on 4chan. The point of this website is for autists with niche interests to discuss said niche interests in length. Furthermore, you are in /jp/, one of the most autistic boards in this website. If this bothers you then you probably don't belong here or are just uninterested in not often talked about Touhou trivia...in which case there are several image dump threads you can wallow in instead.
>>26035869
The Iceberg format originated on this website. It is entirely your fault if you associate it with Reddit or Twitter. If you are so opposed to interesting discussion then perhaps you would feel more welcome in those other two websites. They are filled to the brim with useless memes and uninteresting discussion. Imageboards are made for longform discussion. Twitter and Reddit are the antithesis to longform discussion. The Iceberg's purpose is to spur discussion. If there is anything you'd like to know then go ahead and ask. If not then feel free to leave.
>>26048014
This is actually the picture that prompted me to make OP
>>26029211
>>26048100
My thing was just quickly put together with everything that came to mind. I didn't want to include too many theories either. Feel free to explain your out-there stuff and I'll comment on it.

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone ever talked about the youkai that leave behind bodies when defeated in LLS stage 5?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
>oriental85.jpg
>1884 gensokyo murders and attemped suicide
>angel record
explain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089140

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Explain the kiki kaikai x megami tensei one

[Anonymous No.]

>>26122548
They're both series ZUN really likes, and some people have found similar characters from those series in Touhou. The whole premise of Kiki Kaikai is a shoot 'em up for the SNES about a young shrine maiden going around exterminating youkai. I'm not so well versed on Megami Tensei, but I know there are other influences ZUN drew his work from.

For example, there's a character who is remarkably uncanny in similarities to Aya from a manga, but I can't remember what it was called or who the character is. I just remember she was a young girl, short dark hair, white button down, old-style film camera like Aya's and some sort of association with crows. You could tell ZUN's art style got some influence from that manga's art style as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Keep working on it, it is as >>26048014 said, much better and interesting than the old version he posted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089527
I was just actually playing LLS to show my sister it for the first time. I guess I just didn't notice it before but we were both shocked when I shot them and, rather than disappearing, they just fucking dropped dead.
I have no idea why he made them die with their corpses staying around in particular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
This actually pretty neat, I avoided opening the thread at first because I thouht I'd have to see something like >>26048014

[Anonymous No.]

>>26091970
No u.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089140
>Feel free to explain your out-there stuff
Sure. I'm just explaining though, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with all of them.
>ZUN intentionally destroys certain headcanons
The belief that some instances of characterization that clash heavily with generally accepted interpretations of certain characters aren't happenstance, but rather ZUN's intention. The relationship between Aya and Momiji, Nitori and more recently Flandre are usually brought up as examples. Speaking of Nitori, the interview in Vol. 2 of SCoOW mentions this change of impression due to HM (though I'd argue her SA route was a precedent: in any case, I don't remember anything of sort in her MoF debut and "She's based on a foul youkai" isn't very substantial).
>DiPP isn't supposed to be solved
Even though all the honest men seemingly die, the culprit still shows up in the end. The usual explanation is that she's the most beautiful one, whose episode doesn't end in certain death, but with a vague "I was taken taken captive by a pierrot and disappeard with it"; plus, the story deals with liars, so interpreting this as a half-lie would fix the story.
Some however simply believe the story is designed to be detailed enough to stimulate discussion and generic enough to escape a definitive answer, so you'd be spending your time trying to fit the pieces of what is just a huge and silly prank by ZUN.
>Quirky vignettes DiPP is the original story, murder mystery was written later
This too is one I encountered when I first researched about DiPP after my first listening. The aforementioned story, while found in the first releases of DiPP, would have been written later than the material found in the mass produced DiPP. The latter has quirky and disorganized writings that seem to have been written on a whim: some of these sketches even touch upon Saigyou(ji) and Kaguya, which would have been featured, in a much more accomplished manner, shortly after EoSD. The honest men story, with its plot coherency and a view of Gensokyo as a secluded paradise, would thus be a later product.
>SA cast as the 7 Deadly Sins
The setting is (former) hell. Parsee, Koishi and Satori are Envy, Lust and Pride for obvious reasons. Yuugi, as an oni, is a heavy drinker, so Gluttony fits. Orin hoards corpses and even tries to get yours in Stage 6 because, if you were to die there, it'd disappear, so she'd be Greed. Okuu, with her plans to incinerate the surface, is Wrath. Yamame is a spider and spiders don't actively go hunting, they weave the web and wait for a prey to get stuck, so she'd be Sloth (weakest connection in my opinion).
>ZUN referencing other music
As I said, some of these are obvious homages (Himorogi, burn in violet, Fall of Fall, Native Faith, 3rd eye, Heian Alien), some of them are stretches.
>Remilia can't manipulate fate
Remilia is a known liar, she has a big and childish ego, abilities found in Akyuu's books are self-reported, we never see said power in action.
>alphes didn't return in ULiL due to HM artwork backlash
Even though he had illustrated all the fighting games up to that point, he was replaced by the more orthodox Moe Harukawa in ULiL. His divisive HM artworks, with wonky anatomy and unusual coloring, are to blame, according to this theory. This usually feels peddled by those who didn't like said HM artworks, as it'd be a validation of their aversion.
>Gensokyo is all a dream
Every fantasy series has a variation of this theory, Touhou is no exception. "Gensokyo is actually Reimu/Yukari/Merry/whoever's dream", you heard it.
>>26043111
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_1#cite_ref-4
>This time, the wav versions are going to be the original (in the EoSD, I had re-recorded it after I made them with the SC-88Pro)

[Anonymous No.]

when did remi ever lie?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26155028
Her EoSD profile:
>She swears that she is a descendant of Tepes, but nobody is certain whether she is truly related to the Vlad "Dracula" Tepes. Well, in fact, she is not.
Also, when it comes to her abilities, in SSiB ch. 16, she makes boastful claims ("I'm Lady Remilia, the strongest, fastest creature on Earth. The Moon's pretty tiny, so I just flew around it once.") that are quickly doubted and mocked by Reimu and Marisa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089667
This.
Only thing I got from googling this shit was an old blog/site thingy from a guy called Muffin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26155028
When she lied.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
a bunch of these are still pretty conspiracy anon, but like, ok

>>26155028
>>26158544
she's just chuuni

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
>Yuuka's true power
why is that even there? doesnt everyone know that shes fuck strong ( physical strength ) ? hell some even claim she might the strongest

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089667
>>26163628
I don't know about oriental or 1884, but angel record refers to this record that can be seen to the right of the girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>26183883
I found this thread regarding Angel Record:
>>/jp/thread/19809843
I'm still interested in the others though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Where is "Patchouli's stripes"

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
Comiket 62 circle cut?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
What are Hourai Shoujo and Shanghai Genya?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26212041
The "Satsuki Rin" picture, but it's never actually been confirmed if it's her or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26191589

[Anonymous No.]

What happens with Shanghai Genya?

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPsX5kBVLc
Frontal attack sounded interesting, but it's kinda easy to find

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
>Touhou is ZUN's Kikikaikai vs Megami Tensei Fanfiction
You just blew my mind, this makes way too much sense.

[Anonymous No.]

Oriental085 led me to this artwork on Pixiv, so I'm guessing it's some kind of a picture from a picture-stock that ZUN also used for games or artwork

[Anonymous No.]

>>26267608
It is now. That shit was unavailable for years before this was uploaded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26245868
Someone explain the Satoris one

[Anonymous No.]

>>26274901
they make the assumption that satori and koishi are wearing tops underneath their main outfits, and that's what the different coloured part at the end of their sleeves is

[Anonymous No.]

>>26274901
Satori and Koishi wear undershirts with frilly sleeves rather than the frilly part being a piece of the blue/yellow shirt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26275143
>>26275144
Oh I thought it has something to do with their third eye somehow being detachable and free-floating

[Anonymous No.]

Good content OP.
Seconding >>26089667 in their quest for answers

[Anonymous No.]

i really like this image

[Anonymous No.]

>>26048014
>yuuka possess the ultimate magic
explain

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
The lost Tenchou x Touhou OVA still hurts

[Anonymous No.]

Don't die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26025114
This has become a reddit meme please do not post normalfag memes thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26089140
>The Iceberg format originated on this website.
So did cool face, so did Pepe. Doesn't mean they're not normalfaggot, you fuck.
Not the guy you replied to, by the way, normalfag.

[Anonymous No.]

Every fan interpretation of touhou is all canon because Gensokyo has existed for so long the girls have pretty much existed and done everything possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>26309340
In Mystic Square Extra Yuuka decides to learn the ultimate magic by watching Alice. In Kioh Gyoku ZUN says she succeeded, and it's something very moe. Yes, youkai moe~

[Anonymous No.]

What is ORIENTAL085.JPG?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26398901
read
>>26268137

[Anonymous No.]

>>26326090
I mean, it was probably trash, but I still want it.

[Anonymous No.]

so what is a 1884 thing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>26451460,1
it's a reference to the plot of DiPP