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2523595 No.2523595 [Reply] [Original]

Are you anti-fantasy or anti-mystery?

>> No.2523602

Both.

SF FOREVER, BITCHES

>> No.2523616

>>2523602
NO UNEXPLAINED FASTER-THAN-LIGHT TRAVEL
NO MYSTIC OVERPOWERED ALIENS
NO "IT WORKS BECAUSE I SAY SO"

HARD SF ONLY
FINAL DESTINATION

>> No.2523617

The answer is is obviously anti-fantasy. Because having the answer be fantasy is an easy solution that requires no thinking. There might be a smidge of supernatural stuff but it's all done by humans with human means.

>> No.2523645

anti-fantasy.

Nanjo is actually a scientist who found out that some particles in the world are linked together and he developed a way to use telepathy, and the best way to do it was through lucid dreaming. All the fantasy scenes in the game are actually dreams of many people.

>> No.2523651

>>2523617
The more Umineko goes on, the less it seems like magic is something that requires no thinking, but something that requires certain conditions and restrictions.

Heck, by the time it ends, magic will seem more rational than the 'mystery' explanation.

>> No.2523660

I'm pro-both. Like everyone reading Umineko should be.

>> No.2523681

>>2523616
The americans landing on the moon was a great work of science fiction, they even try and prove it with fact too.

>> No.2523687 [DELETED] 

I'm with Battler, I don't think any of this is done by witches or magic. Must be done in a human way, somehow.

>> No.2523694
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2523694

0.1%

>> No.2523716

the murders were caused by people but outside of rokkenjima there exists magic. as seen by beatrice killing and reviving battler, ange time travelling, the gameboard universe, etc.

>> No.2523730

>>2523716
The meta world isn't part of Battler's world. We already know "magic" exists in some kakera as shown in Higurashi. Hanyuu's powers could definitely be considered magic. Saying anti-fantasy doesn't mean that there's no magic whatsoever in any world, it just means that there was none in Battler's.

>> No.2523733

Nanjo killed everyone.

>> No.2523743

>>2523730
Or at least magic has no relation to the Rokkenjima incident.

>> No.2523742

>>2523730
Hanyuu doesn't exist. Rika is just crazy.

>> No.2523738

>>2523716
at one point in ep 3 Virgilia equates the game board to fiction. instead of thinking of it as a looped universe you could see it as two persons bickering over how to best write the rokkenjima murder story. Magic only exists if you don't want to face reality.

>> No.2523748

>>2523733
Well, at the very least he's the most likely to be scribbling the symbols on the murder scenes. Battler notices that both him and Hideyoshi are surprisingly good at drawing them when discussing the first one with Maria.

>> No.2523749

I'm anti-mystery. Because the fantasy side has all of the fuckwin. I go where the awesome is, sorry.

>> No.2523755

>>2523733
Can't be, since in episode 3 we know he didn't kill himself. So that's not everyone

>> No.2523767

>>2523748
Wasn't his remark that *everyone*'s actually good at it?

>> No.2523770

>>2523730

In before some retard tries to argue that we HAVE TO deny all magic or we're anti-mystery, even the magic that doesn't pertain to the mystery.

>> No.2523776

>>2523770
Well, he just has to deny the witch anyway, not magic in general.

>> No.2523787

>>2523767
Those were the two who were drawing it to show her IIRC. I didn't think anyone else actually drew anything, though it is enough to suggest that. a different person could have drawn them in each episode.

>> No.2523791

i was thinking, If Higurashi was Bern Vs 34. And Bern only won when 34 gave her a small chance... does that mean Hanyuu was somehow related to 34, like 34 put her there to fuck with the game? like Beatrice and Virgillia? Hanyuu is the supposed reason rika resuscitates. But then we find out 34 wants her to keep doing that for eternity. So maybe Hanyuu is an illusion caused by 34, or a bad/neutral piece that rika's miracle turned good?

>> No.2523804

>>2523791

and when she found that out, that her best friend was a lie, she lost all emotion and that's why she's like that now.

>> No.2523806

>>2523791
Is it strange that they haven't addressed Hanyuu at all. I wonder if they will later on.

>> No.2523829

>>2523806
In the Rei patch, Hanyuu says that she will rest eternally once Rika dies.

>> No.2523841

When is the rest of EP 4 gonna come out? anyone know or have an approximate date?

>> No.2523845

You guys really need to stop trying to look for connections between Higurashi and Umineko.

>> No.2523846

>>2523791
the small chance was there all along, it wasn't given, 34 just was overconfident. Bern's power is that ANY nonzero chance, no matter however infinitesimal, will eventually be realized.

>> No.2523854
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2523854

>> No.2523866

>>2523645
Sup, Chaos;Head?

>> No.2523875

>>2523846

it was given. lambda delta's power is certainty, ie 100%

>> No.2523890

>>2523875
Reread the hidden tea party of the first episode.
Bern clearly say that Lambdadelta power is "almost" certainty.
Not 100%, rather 99.99%.
But that's a big difference.

>> No.2523896

>>2523890

NO U

>> No.2523901

>>2523791
Hanyuu was just a game piece and her materialization was a miracle. Giving her a chance meant she could choose the starting pieces in the last world. With her overwhelming power she thought that her victory is still certain after giving her this huge advantage. She wanted to show Bern how impossible the victory is for her and just give up, instead going with this for another thousand of years.
That's why she is the Witch of Certainty: overwhelming power = Takano's iron will and her army.
And why is Beato the Endless Witch? Because there is no ultimate enemy to defeat, everyone is a wolf, if the actual murderer dies, someone takes his place.

>> No.2523905

Bern is a bitch. I can't trust her anymore.

>> No.2523917

Ryuukishi mentioned that figuring out the truth will be especially hard for those familiar with Higurashi, so I guess we really should refrain from seeking connections with it.
Or we can try to figure out what exactly in Higurashi can mislead us.

>> No.2523954

Can someone explain how Higurashi could have been a game between Bern and Lambda if Bern was born from Rika during the game?

>> No.2523956

>>2523901

or, you know. she can be the endless witch because she can revive people endlessly :3

>> No.2523960

>>2523841
Probably around August for the next patch. Translation is on halt because their translator will busy with school work until June. The next patch won't cover 100% of the game though. 30%, 60% then 100%. I predict episode 4 won't be fully translated till around October.

>> No.2523988

>>2523954

she was just playing with rika torturing her and then rika became bern and found everything out. that or something with kakeras / metaworld being outside time

>> No.2523997

>>2523956
You are anti-mystery, aren't you?

>> No.2524001

>>2523954
Just like Battler is playing against Beato despite being on board at the same time. Bern isn't Rika and Meta-Battler isn't Battler

>> No.2524016

>>2524001

isnt meta battler the first battler?

and i think rika is bern because she has the power to collect different consciousness from different universes, like she showed in higurashi.

anyways i think the universes are merging because bottles where found each detailing different deaths

>> No.2524034

>>2523730
I think it's going to end up being something like schrodinger's cat, where, if battler observes that there is magic, then there is. If he holds out, and keeps his belief that there is none, the waveform will collapse the other way.

>> No.2524098

>>2524016
Well, he isn't exactly the first Battler. You can notice in episode 2 and 3 board-Battler is at times subconsciously aware of what meta-battler thinks, so it'd be truer to say meta-Battler is just the continuity of Battlers participating in the game.

Also we don't actually know what happened to the first Battler on his game board. Could be Meta-battler remembers the first game board just because he was already observing.

>> No.2524121

>>2524098
The first Battler after laying his hands on the rifle killed his cousins in fear and fled from the island.

>> No.2524154

>>2524121
Says you

>> No.2524155

>>2524034
I don't think you know what "schroedinger's cat" means, but otherwise, I suppose it's already like that. Magic exists if you believe in it.

>> No.2524183

I have a feeling it'll be something like, magic doesn't exist, but acknowledging there's a type of magic in love will lead to the truth.

Since love seems to be Umineko's theme.

As such, Beatrice will end up 'existing in Battler's heart' or something.

>> No.2524192

first battler died and when to hell, with demons gnawing even at his bones. everything after that is just hell torturing him.

>> No.2524198

>>2524183

Without love, it cannot be seen.

If Battler loves, he accepts Magic.

ERROR

>> No.2524201
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2524201

>>2524192
Fascinating.

>> No.2524207
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2524207

>>2524183

>> No.2524213
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2524213

>>2524207

>> No.2524221

>>2524198

Accepting magic doesn't mean the same thing as not solving the mystery.

>> No.2524232

>>2524221

However, Battler has to deny magic to win the game.

Accepting magic is a loss.

>> No.2524243

>>2524232

here's a little problem. has ANYONE said, even after ALL THIS TIME, EXACTLY what will happen if he "wins" or "loses"?

cuz the golden land looked like it was gonna be pretty cool (till virgillia made her rape face)

>> No.2524247

>>2524155
Well, most people misunderstand Shrödinger's cat at the pure physics level, even a lot of quantum scientists. They think it's about multiple exclusive states when it's in fact a demonstration of how quantum physics aren't valid at the macrscopic level.

>> No.2524253

>>2524243
I'm pretty sure you are anti-mystery

>> No.2524274

>>2524243
That wasn't the golden land. It's questionable if the golden land even exists. It probably doesn't.

>> No.2524276

>>2524243
The implication of a loss, from Battler's point of view, is he will live in a delusion. Also he'll have to kiss Beato's feet.

If he wins he gets to have Beato kiss his ass, negate the existence of witches and end the loop. Hopefully he gets to live afterwards. He'll also get answers and be proven right.

>> No.2524281

>>2524276
>Also he'll have to kiss Beato's feet.
Which would be fine if he got to live afterward, as Maria believes will happen, instead of undergoing continual torture.

>> No.2524286

>>2524276
>>Also he'll have to kiss Beato's feet.

He already did that and much more in EP2. i think Beato probably shoved something up his ass too :3

>> No.2524290

>>2524243

If he loses, he's furniture forever.

If he wins, he might get a "perfect world" (like Matsuribayashi-hen), or he gets to stay dead.

>> No.2524288

>>2524274
To clarify what the golden land is supposed to be. A magical place where everyone is happy and blah blah. Pretty much heaven.

That doesn't exist. The golden land is most likely Beatrice's way to trick people into thinking that everything will be good in the end.

>> No.2524295

>>2523917
Well, for that you have to analyse what Higurashi's apparent and actual mysteries were and how you were misled. Like, the reason for the loop, or for that matter if it was a loop at all, was one of the main mysteries in Higurashi whereas for Umineko from the second game on you know the loop's taking place (even though in game 4 you learn the apparent reason may nt be the true reason).

In fact people who played Higurashi should *expect* the loop, so maybe that's actually part of what's misleading this time around.

>> No.2524311

>>2524247
Well, I'd say it's more of an analogy to describe why quantum physics is so bizarre using an easily understood example.

It's primary purpose isn't to demonstrate that quantum physics doesn't work at a macro level, although it definitely doesn't claim that this experiment would ever be remotely possible in real life.

That's why it works as an analogy. As long as you don't take it literally. Fortunately, Ryuukishi doesn't.

>> No.2524314

>>2523617
> The answer is is obviously anti-fantasy. Because having the answer be fantasy is an easy solution that requires no thinking.
And, anti-fantasy have to deny all magical things in this game, by the same reason.
Because escaping from denying the existence of meta-world is an easy solution that requires no thinking.

>> No.2524315

>>2524288

But everytime battler has denied the golden land everyone "goes to hell and get eaten by demons"

i would really like to know what would happen to everyone if he accepts. ryukishi should release an omake chapter at the end showing what would happen.

>> No.2524333

>>2524315
Getting eaten by demons was part of the Witch's Banquet that resulted in EP2. This occurred because he accepted magic. Though he was revived afterward.

>> No.2524335

The Golden Land is real, just read the rest of ep4: It's a like a virtual reality controlled by Beatrice in which anything a resident wants can become reality. My problem with the Golden Land is that since it's limited to what only you or perhaps Beatrice can think up, I would get bored of it after a while.

>> No.2524338

Golden Land being bullshit has been shown in ep 2 already. Then again, even that probably meant something completely different.
Damn Ryuukishi for fucking with my head.

>> No.2524341

>>2524315

The tips likely don't tell the complete truth.

>> No.2524353
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2524353

>>2524333
he didnt sign, remember? once he signs THEN he officially accepts witches.

>> No.2524366

>>2524341

Actually correction, it's DEFINITE they don't tell the complete truth. Just look at

The tips always listing that Kinzo is alive

>> No.2524388

What TIPS is and who "wrote" it are mysteries of Umineko too.

>> No.2524396

>>2524388

That's just shit.

>> No.2524400

>>2524388
Either Bern or Maria...

>> No.2524412

>>2524366
"Life and death" of Tips represents Battler's knowledge.
When Battler find someone's death, that person "dies" on Tips.

>> No.2524413

>>2524366
Well, you just have to look at when they change to realize they're completely subjective to Battler

>> No.2524792

The "witches" are time travelers from far into the future. Closed Room murders and servants? Teleportation! Gigantic towers springing up? Nanotechnology!
Dead people coming back to life? Clones with copied memories!
Golden life seeking arrow? Self guided multi-las
Tea party? Virtual reality!
Red Words of truth? Invisible recon drones!

With this explanation it is clear the culprit is human.

>> No.2524882

>>2524413

Not EP3 Nanjo...

>> No.2524884

>>2524388
Those TIPS in the menu with the character list and everything? I thought that was just a Witch Hunt add-on. The original game had them too?

>> No.2524893

>>2524884
The only thing they added was the translation notes. The rest of the TIPS were indeed there in the original version.

>> No.2524904

>>2524884

That was, like, one of THE main parts of the original game...
The Witch Hunt did add on the Grimoire section though

>>
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