/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:00:51 2009 No.2497350 [Reply] [Original]

Why do so many people transliterating Japanese words and names (I'm looking at you TokyoPop) use "-h" to indicate extended vowel sounds? If I see "toh" I think of that as a SHORT sound, not long.

"h" is an unvoiced sound. Try pronouncing it by yourself and you'll sound like you're wheezing or something. Now try transitioning from a vowel (voiced) to that unvoiced wheeze. What do you get? A sudden cutoff, and NOT an extension of the vowel.

As an example of English usage, "ah" is a very quick expression, with a short burst of "a" cut off suddenly. "Aah" would be used to indicate a longer vowel sound, though still with the "-h" to indicate that it stops rather than trails off.

Why then do people get it so horribly wrong with Japanese transliteration?

tl;dr: "-oh" != "-ou"

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:04:51 2009 No.2497374 Whatever. I think I'm going to play some Tohhoh now.

嫁 !Du1A6pui8g Mon Apr 27 03:07:51 2009 No.2497389

>Why then do people get it so horribly wrong with Japanese transliteration?
There's more than one way to transliterate Japanese? It doesn't matter which system you use as long as you're consistent.
>If I see "toh" I think of that as a SHORT sound, not long.
And this is your problem, not theirs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:08:51 2009 No.2497393 I've been playing pokemon gold and I just caught Ho-oh

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:09:51 2009 No.2497399 danbooru translation faggotry

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:11:51 2009 No.2497408 >>2497389 There are four systems I can think of. Hepburn, Nihon-shiki, Kunrei-shiki and Wapuro. None of those use "-h".

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:12:51 2009 No.2497411 >>2497408 >Tohkyoh: indicated with an "h". This is sometimes known as "passport Hepburn", as the Japanese Foreign Ministry has authorized (but not required) this usage in passports.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:12:51 2009 No.2497416 >>2497399 danbohru

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:12:51 2009 No.2497418 >>on vndb.

>>	嫁 !Du1A6pui8g Mon Apr 27 03:13:51 2009 No.2497420 >>2497408 The -h is just used when they can't make that - thing above their o's. It's just a slight variation of existing systems.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:14:51 2009 No.2497427 >>2497350 When I look at R, I always think of as a hard R sound. Does that mean they shouldn't use R?

>>	嫁 !Du1A6pui8g Mon Apr 27 03:16:51 2009 No.2497437 >>2497427 You are correct. In fact, we should have another alphabet set just for foreign words. Learn an alphabet to learn an alphabet. There will be no more confusion!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:16:51 2009 No.2497440 >>2497427 But "h" is never voiced. Ever. ...Actually "r" is a pretty bad example for your attempted point, because it doesn't ever change either, barring rolled "r"s.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:18:51 2009 No.2497455 >>2497437 Everything should be written using the IPA. That way everything will be written as it as said and no one will understand anything that's written as a result.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:20:51 2009 No.2497465 >>2497440 >But "h" is never voiced. Ever. What? Yes it is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:22:51 2009 No.2497473 >>2497465 When? Give me an example.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:28:51 2009 No.2497520 >>2497473 Hello.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:29:51 2009 No.2497524 >>2497520 Unvoiced "h" sound leading into voiced "e" sound. No voiced "h" sound there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:37:51 2009 No.2497570 >>2497524 Actually to make my point clearer: The point at which the "h" turns into the "e" is the exact point at which the sound becomes voiced.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:39:51 2009 No.2497578 >>2497440 History.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:40:51 2009 No.2497584 >>2497578 See >>2497570 only swap "i" for "e".

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:41:51 2009 No.2497588 >>2497524 Ah sorry I was mistaking unvoiced with silent. But wouldn't an unvoiced letter be a better representative of extending a sound than a voiced letter? If h was voiced it would cut off the o sound as you transitioned from o to h.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:46:51 2009 No.2497603 >>2497588 If "h" was somehow voiced, then the sound would change in the transition from "o" to "h", yes. But changed from voiced to unvoiced basically means you cut the "o" sound off anyway and just breath out for a bit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:52:51 2009 No.2497621 In romanized Japanese, -h elongates the previous vowel sound. It doesn't matter what it means in 'something else', because you're not pronouncing it in 'something else'. You're pronouncing it in Japanese.

Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:55:51 2009 No.2497630

>>2497603
If you make an "o" sound and then breathe out you effectively elongate the "o".

I'm not sure why you're so concerned about this of all things. English is already riddled with illogical spellings. This is one minor rule that will take you 5 seconds to learn and remember, and at least it's consistent unlike a lot of shit in English.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 03:58:51 2009 No.2497643 >>2497630 I'd contend that "oh" sounds more like "off" ("f" being another unvoiced consonant) than "ooo".

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 06:47:51 2009 No.2498066 It's cause when mainstreamers read Tousaka they see Twosaka

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 07:33:51 2009 No.2498184 Yet, there's "bokeh", derived from 暈け. (It's a photography related term, see wikipedia.) There the -h is used to mark a short sound.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 27 07:42:51 2009 No.2498211 i dont thnk thats true art all

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