/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

God. Fucking. Damnit. This red text bullshit has to be worst plot device ever conceived.

[Anonymous No.]

How can someone hate the red text? without it, it would be impossible to know what is the true and what isn't. And without a foundation, you can't build any theories.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't worry, Battler gets a device to counter the Red Text in Episode 4.

[Anonymous No.]

You're a moron

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467089
It's just so disgustingly lazy and uncouth. I know the author is trying to keep things under wraps for the answer arcs, but there's got to be better ways to lay out a foundation that doesn't involve what is equivalent to the voice of god laying down the law.

[Anonymous No.]

Ronove and Virgilia are also good actors.

[Anonymous No.]

the red text is good, but I also disliked how they acted like they do in Yu Gi Oh

Oh well, its still nice to get cornered like that,
The key thing that Battler didn't ask, was if Hideyoshi died before, or after Nanjo

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467107
Well, considering how every scene in the entire game involving witches is subject to scrutiny, without red text there would be nothing we could even start believing in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467107
Protip: Red text can be a play on words. Red only means that the statement said is true. You can still interpret it the wrong way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467126
Oh yeah
I loved the whole "Hidden Exit" vs "Hidden Shelf" argument in eps2

[Anonymous No.]

Shitty plot devices? In my Agatha Christie fanfiction?

[Anonymous No.]

If red text proclaims someone as dead then it's true, they're dead at the time of them stating it. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility that they were alive beforehand.

Murder happens - time passes - witch says in red that they're dead.

You're lead to believe that they couldn't have done the murder because they were dead but that red doesn't remove the possibility that they died after the murder and before it was stated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467107
You should think of why there is red text in this story, because "what is meta-world?" is one of mysteries too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467161
It feels very videogame-esque mentality, but in a (mostly) serious narrative, with no interaction from the user at all, doesn't translate well at all in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467126
Basically Umineko admits you to escape from thinking about complicated things.
You are even able to deny red text, if you want.

It means, when you want to enjoy speculating Umineko, you need to limit yourself.

For example, in EP2, you are never bothered when you suspect all servants.
So you should think the minimum number of people who can make all closed rooms, if you want to speculate something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467240
they're all wolves, so it doesn't matter

Maria is passing the keys to everyone, what a slut

[Anonymous No.]

I love how everyone believes in the red text when the complete justification for doing so is, literally, Beato saying she's a witch so she must obey it!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467291
Thats no fun
Then what are we turning the chessboard over for?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467291

People playing the games accept red text for the same reason Battler does; it's impossible to prove a negative fact, thus you need information.

If you don't accept red text, you have no basis to go on for speculation and the mystery falls apart due to lack of evidence.

It's not like similar things haven't been done before.

[Anonymous No.]

The real fun is seeing how they're doing to do red text and the metaworld in the anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467341
Actually you can't speculate enough by only red text since there are still almost infinite possibilities.
You have to believe something other than red text with some plausible reasons.

One of traditional things is "Battler's narration is real."
But notice that Battler's narration doesn't mean "scenes where Battler is there."

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467318

The whole point of turning the chessboard over is that it doesn't work on someone like Beatrice who is unpredictable and doesn't always make the best moves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467398

Well yes, but you still get no evidence from these.

Plus, Beatrice shows up in front of Chess-Battler in Episode 4, which throws his PoV into doubt as well, and Meta-Battler comes to the conclusion 'you really can't trust anything not red'.

Of course, going off Higurashi, some of the biggest hints are probably in the magic scenes, just like Higurashi hid them smack in the middle of L5 ones.

So many people completely throw out the magic scenes, and I really think you shouldn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467485
Holy shit, Battler believes so much in magic to that point he started 'seeing' Beatrice?

[Anonymous No.]

I come from the future.

Red text is awesome in the anime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467485
There is "Beartice III theory," which says uniformed-Beato is an actual human who has been grown by Kinzo as the next Beatrice.
And after EP4, there is "Shannon = Kanon theory" for tying "Battler's narration is real," "there is Beatrice III," and "there aren't more than 18 people."

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467527
How's Otome function?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467567
It's shit, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467527
How is Tsukihime 2? Do we get Sacchin route yet?

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone have that image that has the impressions for each episode?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467657
I don't know what that is.

[Anonymous No.]

The red text is pretty brutish and unrefined, I agree, but without it the novel would be stuck with with basically Battler and Beato screaming "NO U" at each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467851
Yeah, the red text (along with the 'Devil's Proof') adds a bit more variety with the LOLITROLLU and FFFFFFFF/BAWWWWWWW moments

[Anonymous No.]

Rather frankly, Umineko would be shit without the red text. I mean, what else WOULD be there? The author would need to introduce a bunch of theories and explain the devices that make them hold, then completely shatter them ten minutes afterward because someone dies in a way that violates the previous assumptions (or it doesn't and all you get is a meaningless death/NO U between Beato and Batler). Then Umineko would become just boring exposition (and 12RIVEN was bad enough already, thanks). But then again, I've been off /jp/ for a while, so maybe my rage gears aren't in place yet. Hey, OP, make this thread again in a week, eh?

[Anonymous No.]

I don't see what's wrong with red text.

[Anonymous No.]

You guys are so lost it's funny. Look, if everyone trusts the magically-enforced validity of the red so much, why WON'T Battler trust it if Beato uses it to simply proclaim: "I killed them with magic"? He won't believe that kind of proclimation because he doesn't accept magic and therefore if he heard it in red he'd doubt the red text, too. So it is literally a ridiculous game in which Beato challanges Battler's sanity to come up with bizarre schemes that defy common sense and logic. But it isn't a game, it's a story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468433
You're the one who's lost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468433
Red text is the tool of the author not Beato's. It's beyond her power to say something that isn't true with it because that's breaking the author's intention. The red text has no meaning if you can say anything you want in red. Think of this way. Beato's power isn't the power to say words in red, it's the power to reveal the truth. She only reveals the truth when it's advantageous to her, to shut down Battler's theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467518
I think the game board Beatrice only supposed to represent the 18th person. Even if she is not Beatrice or not even resembles to her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468448
I like to think of the red text as the self-imposed 'rules of the game' Battler and the witches are playing. If there's no rules, then things would just get boring, and that's the last thing the witches want.

[VanDarkholme !3GqYIJ3Obs No.]

>>2468448
Then why did Beato laugh in red in episode 2(*cackle* *cackle* kihihihi)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468448
> Red text is the tool of the author not Beato's.
No, it's Beato's tool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468433

She openly says that if she were to say "magic exists" in red the entire game would collapse and that would be SOOOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOORIIIIIIIIIIIING.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468674
Because Battler really is incompetent and that really is funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468693
She can't say magic exists in red because it doesn't. The red can only tell the truth. She can bluff and say she's against it because it would take away the fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468697

Well, it might be a bluff, it might not be.

Maybe magic exist and YOU ARE INCOMPETENT!

[Anonymous No.]

Battler is seeing everything that's happening just like us. It's not just Beato's narration, becuase, as in ep3, we see meta-beatrice interacting directly with the gameboard, away from the meta-world and meta-battler, but meta-battler is aware of everything. He also saw the magic battle with beato away from him, and, that's righ, he collpased from the psychological shock if I recall...how did he recover again, did he decide to deny what happened right infront of his face due to the fact that the ground wasn't disturbed? Lol.

In ep4, he denied the 6-person closed room muder in the chapel with the red stipulating NO possibility of outside interference or remote control by claiming small TIMED explosives in the drinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It must be convenient to be Battler.

Fact is, the joke is on you guys. Besides a few central plot points, this shit is being made up as it goes along. Lots of stuff is thrown in just to fuck with our heads. It's one big troll. Higurashi had a solution to the mystery, but it was so obscure and bizarre NO ONE who tells the truth could have figured it out. It was a combination of magic reality resets, a ghost horn loli hanging out with Rika, MULTIPLE secret goverment orginizations, an extremely unlikely virus, and just PLAIN OLD-FASHIONED YANDERES!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468725

>Higurashi had a solution to the mystery, but it was so obscure and bizarre NO ONE who tells the truth could have figured it out.

Even with the ham-handed telling of the anime, I figured out that something was wrong with Takano's corpse in every world, making her suspicious each time.

The reason behind it all was out-of-the-blue, but I caught wind of the culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

"Why does Beatrice play against Battler?"
"Why does Beatrice use red text?"
"What is Beatrice's wish?"
These are important and we should speculate why, according to Ryuukishi07.

Meta-world actually is "something" concerned with Rojjenjima mass murder.
In other words, meta-world itself is an object for speculation.

[Anonymous No.]

After the second Arc I guessed there was some time fuckup going on. Well my guess was there was Oyashiro-sama is some evil fucktard and likes to kill them over and over again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468744
- Rojjenjima
+ Rokkenjima

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468744
>"Why does Beatrice play against Battler?"
Because she's ronery

>"Why does Beatrice use red text?"
Game stand point, so the readers can have something to build theories on. Character stand point, to have something to shut down Battler's theories. If she's unable to shut them down then he'll never shut up about them despite what she says. He's that stubborn.

>"What is Beatrice's wish?"
To be loved, preferably by Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468697
If she says "magic exists" by red text, Battler will start to deny red text itself.
And "stalemate" will occur, as Ronove mentioned in EP3.
That's why Beatrice can't say it in red.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468765
Yes, stupid people can't be anti-fantasy against these questions.

[Anonymous No.]

I like how Umineko witches gain power only if you believe in them. That's the precise function of the red text. It makes you believe in what witches say.

Battler should just disregard all magic (neither accept or deny it, just stop going along with Beatrice's game) and solve the riddle. Fuck witches.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468770

So in other words
>if she were to say "magic exists" in red the entire game would collapse and that would be SOOOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOORIIIIIIIIIIIING.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468770
Don't take what isn't said in red at face value. That line leads you believe that she can. The author isn't going outright dismiss the possibility that magic does exist because the whole game is about questioning its existence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468775

If he denies red text as truth, then the entire game goes FUCKING NOWHERE.

He has to or else it's endless "THAT WAS A LIE" "BUT IT WAS IN RED" "RED IS A LIE".

[Anonymous No.]

Battler has to believe magic exists for the witch to be revived
The red text is a tool to convince him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468777
In other words, Beatrice needs to *make him believe* magic.
It's a difficult job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468790
That's why he just stops playing the game the way Beatrice wants him to play, so it'd be more like

Beatrice: Okay explain this murder then
Battler: Shut up I'm trying to survive here

He should concentrate his efforts on figuring what the hell the riddle means and using the clues he gets to see the whole picture, instead of WITCHES DONT EXIST NO WAY.

[Anonymous No.]

Good end: Battler solves the riddle of the epitaph and splits the gold 17 ways, Kinzo dies a normal death and Battler becomes the head of the Ushiromiya family, everyone gets happy end

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468837
Is the gold/17 still enough? I forgot how much it was.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468850

It's more than a billion yen for each of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468850
Each person would be fucking rich.

[Anonymous No.]

At this point some greedy fucktard will fuck up this happy end.
Just as 34`ed

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468878

The only greedy kill-em-all is Eva, and Eva only wanted to steal the leadership out from Krauss. Well, Krauss wouldn't be the leader, and Eva likes Battler more than Jessica, and George would defend Battler and whatnot.
So as long as it's pulled off before the First Twilight, he'd be fine.

[Anonymous No.]

One thing I'm still struggling with.

Assuming the beginning of EP3 is true. And that Virgilia is Kumasawa, then who is the 'Beatrice' that wants to learn magic from her, the one that Rosa meets? She mentions being afraid of her 'Grandfather', which seems to fit Kinzo, but at that age, it's unlikely Krauss or Eva would've had a kid already.

Personally I suspect Beato is Rosa. The 'Death of Beatrice' is something that happened at the other mansion which led to the rise of the 'Black Witch' persona, and ever since then she's been pursuing failed relationship after relationship in the hope of finding love as a source of power to become a witch again.

[Anonymous No.]

Higurashi:
X - L5
Y - Takano did it.
Z - Sonozaki family fueling the paranoia.

Umineko:
X - WITCHES LOL
Y - The murderer.
Z - Kinzo's gold.

In the fourth game/Tsumihoroboshi K1 and Battler defeat rule X, but die anyway. Can you see where this is going?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468939
So game board Battler will suddenly remember stuff from previous games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468956
Kinzo (or "Kinzo"?!) does already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468959

I don't think he remembers anything but his own part, which is SITTING IN A ROOM THE ENTIRE FUCKING TIME
then dying maybe

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468938
Stop suspecting Rosa! Stop suspecting Rosa in EVERYTHING!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468978

But we must avenge Sakutaro

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468985
For getting his harem of stakes out of nowhere?

There's no way what Rosa did is enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468978
Then where does Maria get all the stuff she learns about the occult from? The local library?

If she isn't going to Hokkaido with a boyfriend or for vacation THEN WHY IS SHE THERE?

Why is it that she promises Maria that she'll be a better parent BUT SHE NEVER REFORMS?

Why does she keep trying to steal the precious thing? (Kinzo's gold)

Why can I build a bridge out of her?

Face it. She's the best mom ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2468985
It's alright he's resurrected by Ange anyways

[Anonymous No.]

If I had a kid I would give it to her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469000
>Then where does Maria get all the stuff she learns about the occult from? The local library?

Drew my interest too. My theory is that Maria's father is supernatural (and may be in contact with her. ) Could explain Rosa's hatred of her interest in magic and witches.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469000
Yes she it.
>>>/rs/Rosa_is_the_best_mom_ever

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469028
Rather than "supernatural", maybe he was as obsessed with occult stuff as Kinzo and passed that on to Maria.
Is it mentioned anywhere when exactly did Rosa's husband leave her and whether Maria has seen him at all?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469028
Episode 5: Marias dad escapes death by impregnating Maria and being reborn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469038
In his daughter's darkling womb
Great Cthulhu will be born
And at his birth the Fabric of
Space and Time will be torn

When he casts away Death's shroud
And rises from the Deep
Star of yellow will burn out
Mankind slaughtered like the sheep

Mother/Daughter to the eldritch god
And those attendant at his birth
Will be Judge and Executioner
To the Cosmos and the Earth

Maria is Cthylla. We're doomed.

[Anonymous No.]

Um, there's one thing nobody seems to mention here.

At the time of Umineko, Rokkenjima is neither in the realm of reality, nor in the realm of magic. Red text can only be used to tell what is the truth at the present moment, unless it specifically refers to a past event (X died before Y).

[red text]Because Rokkenjima is not fully in the realm of magic, magic does not exist yet. Only when Rokkenjima has left the realm of reality and entered the realm of magic will Beato be able to declare that 'magic exists'.[/red text]

The reason she's playing this is because this is the test to become the golden witch. She's struggling over and over again to try to kill everyone as stated in the epitaph and making them all believe she is a witch. However, until every single human believes she is a witch, Rokkenjima stays between the realm of reality and the realm of magic, and she cannot complete the ceremony.

Beato needs to make Battler, the only existance on Rokkenjima still defying her and tying Rokkenjima to reality, accept her existence to complete the ceremony and become the true Golden Witch of Rokkenjima.

[Anonymous No.]

Discussion please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469769

About what? Her cow tits?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469779
About anything Umineko.

I don't know why I spoiler'd that either.

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

Okay, I'll start with a simple question that I'm too lazy to answer myself:

Is it possible that the real culprit of the Rokkenjima murders was actually Battler? In a "Level 5" kind of way coupled with selective amnesia and multiple personalities, plus maybe some behind-the-scenes string pulling by Kinzo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469883

At the very least not for the Third game, as it was stated in red.

[Anonymous No.]

If it's the same culprit for all murders then maybe we can trim out the ones who were killed and confirmed dead.
Well, then again we have the IT'S A CONSPIRACY HURR DURR theory.

[Anonymous No.]

The story has given us a pretty solid overview of the magic vs. reality thing at play. The island in the space of two days goes into an in-between state in which the meta-world can touch the real world. Kinzo set up a huge gamble of some sort in relation to Beatrice, in which solving the epitath is the victory condition, and it's suggested this is a game between those two. According to Beatrice, who must be lying because it isn't like Ryuukishi07 to tell us the truth straight up like that, Kinzo is trying to ressurrect Beatrice into the real world so that he can monopilize her forever after her accidental death -- it could be this is reffering to the gameboard beato.

And then there's the massive sigh-inducing plot element introduced later into ep.4 when gameboard beato asks gameboard Battler about his "crime" and then gets all emo when it doesn't pan out. Battler asks meta-beato what's the deal when he reconizes her emo expression too, which she denies, and then tries to abandon the game.

I was left with the overwhelming feeling of NOW WHAT?! The whole nature of the game between Battler and Beatrice might have to be thrown out, and I TRUST it isn't going to delove into a harem/eroge "plot" of childhood friends and unremembered promises or something along those lines or I will throw up all over my monitor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469914

Or you can SUBMIT TO THE WITCH

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469883
Very, very doubtful. At the very least, (ep3)Eva kills Battler at the end of ep3, proving that Eva was the culprit that episode. I worded it like that because I think the following:
-(ep1)Natsuhi was the murderer in ep1. She pretty much went mad from the way she was treated and killed everyone to become the best Ushiromiya. In the end she realized she fucked up and commits suicide.
-(ep2)Rosa is the murderer in ep2. Her motive is pretty much only greed, and the whole rage at her older siblings thing. She, too, commits suicide at the end of the story.
Episode 3's murderer is obvious.

It may seem odd that there's a murderer every time; but it's fated that somebody will try to murder the rest on Rokkenjima, for the 'reality' part to offset things by the 'magic' part.
For example, if Beato kills Kanon using magic in the half-reality, half-magic Rokkenjima, there needs to be a rational explanation for Kanon's death as well, to keep Rokkenjima tied to reality. Therefore, somebody murders Kanon. If such a thing wouldn't happen, Rokkenjima would lose its ties to reality as there is no rational explanation for the events that occur.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2469919
"When I am legal, become my wife!"

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2469883
Okay srs post.

Next thing we know, at the very end we might be getting a Battler-Beatrice witch. Battler was a part of Beatrice all along which somehow escaped Rokkenjima after the summoned Beatrice commits suicide.

And because she couldn't just reincarnate into any descendant of Kinzo to claim her end of the bargain, she had to wait for a certain amount of confusion and risk (Asumu and Kyrie giving birth at the same day to baby boys, one of which was miscarried) in order to become Ushiromiya Battler who would then commit the murders of "reality" and as Beatrice the Endless witch who would commit the murders of "fantasy" at the same time.

GG Kinzo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470006
yeah, but
>>2469934

well im confused myself

[Anonymous No.]

All things, be they gods or stars, move as fate directs.
Beatrices game: Fight a witch to challenge an even grater witch.
It is only the stage for my great purpose.
Beatrice, Virgilia and my own partner Ange, Furude Rika and Furude Hanyuu as well.
You where all simply dancing on the wheel of fate that I turned.

This is all for the ultimate catastrophe.
I am a terrible child born from the greatest human Rika, and the god Hanyuu.
I am priest of the god that unifies space and time.
Now, in this unknown moment between times, at the end of an unknown world, you and I, let us finish our final battle.

This is the final act.
The witch of absolute.

[Anonymous No.]

All things, be they gods or stars, move as fate directs.
Beatrices game: Fight a witch to challenge an even greater witch.
It is only the stage for my great purpose.
Beatrice, Virgilia and my own partner Ange, Furude Rika and Furude Hanyuu as well.
You where all simply dancing on the wheel of fate that I turned.

This is all for the ultimate catastrophe.
I am a terrible child born from the greatest human Rika, and the god Hanyuu.
I am priest of the god that unifies space and time.
Now, in this unknown moment between times, at the end of an unknown world, you and I, let us finish our final battle.

This is the final act.
The witch of absolute.

[Anonymous No.]

>Episode 3's murderer is obvious.
I'm not entirely sure. The discussions in EP4 are enough to let me cast doubt on it, also Eva would've known that if she was the only one left then she'd be seen as the murderer, why kill Jessica and Battler at the end?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470146
What?

[Anonymous No.]

Okay guys help me out here:

Beato - Endless Witch - Mugenjou no Majou
Bern - Witch of Miracles - Kiseki no Majou
Lamba - Witch of Certainty - Zettai no Majou

?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470161
She got away with it, so it wasn't a problem to her at all. However, despite being the only survivor of a serial murder case on an island, there was no proof she was the murderer.
Why? [redtext]Because there was no proof the other 17 were murdered.[/redtext] If Jessica and Battler had survived, people would know people had been murdered on Rokkenjima, and Eva might have been found guilty.

As for you not believing it; I'm assuming anything told from Battler's perspective is true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470300
Oh, actually, it's 100% certain that Eva was the culprit, not Battler; Eva survives, Battler doesn't. I guess that's enough proof, Ange Beatrice wasn't pulled out of nowhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470325

It is NOT 100% certain.

Episode 4 has the option of there being a 19th person, with one of the previous 18 not being on the island at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470376
Whatever happened, both Battler and Eva were there (lack of Battler would make the whole of ep3 total nonsense). Battler dies and Eva returns alive. Regardless of what happens, BATTLER DIES. HE DOES NOT RETURN ALIVE. He cannot be the culprit, and I can't see how Eva is not the culrpit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470325
After George was killed in Ep3 she was probably so frightened that she saw a wolf in everyone. So to be ensure her safety and life, she killed all the remaining survivors (probably the 18th person as well) and escaped. And by the end of her rampage, she realised that by this doing, she was the only remaining wolf on the island.
Battler was thinking something like this in Ep2 when he was locked with Rosa and Maria, so it could be a nice foreshadowing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470390
Pulling bullshit out of my ass Battler-style, he could've commited suicide like, supposedly, Natsuhi and Rosa did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470390
OH GOD IT'S A STAND

[Anonymous No.]

It was Kyrie. Kill everyone on the island, all the money goes to Ange. Battler isn't my kid, who cares what happens to him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470426
.....


Next closed room please.

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2470433
But near the end of ep4, wasn't it hinted at that Battler could actually be her son? Of course both of them do not know this. Kinzo might be behind it. So could Rudolf.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470464
That would be a very very retarded plot-twist. And then Battler falls from the stairs and has amnesia, amirite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470376

There are no more than 17 people on the island.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470501
Kinzo is dead
Shannon is Kanon
Godha was phone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470517
>Shannon is Krauss
Fix'd.

[Anonymous No.]

So, is it true?
In eps 4, Kanon = Shanon?

[Anonymous No.]

None of you guys are considering that the murderer may be more than one person.

There could be multiple people planning murder. It's a case of the wolves killing the wolves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470568
agatha christy style? 7 stabs for 7 murderers? me like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470568
I do consider it, but there's not nearly enough info to build theories about that, so we end up searching for at least SOME murderer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470578
Its not too hard to believe.

Two people think "I need to kill the entire family in order to get my inheritance". Obviously, it would be a little suspicious if the only people who died were people who people in front of the line of someone getting inheritance, so some servants need to die too.

So Murderer A kills Murderer B at night in one game, but not the other.

However, it goes deeper than that. Lets use George as an example, Shannon dies, and he gets pissed. Suddenly, it's not entirely impossible for George to be the murderer either, even though he originally had no malicious intent.

And then there's the 19th person. We don't know who he or she is, but lets assume the following:

1) He doesn't care who he kills. He's an opportunist.
2) He wants everyone to believe in witches through his actions.
3) He knows about the legend of Beatrice, including and especially the part about killing people.

Now we have someone who essentially has no real motive or any sort of predisposition with who he kills. He wants to kill "spectacularly" in a way which would be impossible for normal people, and he MUST kill 6.

This explains the bit in episode 1 about the charm. He saw the charm and realized that it would look "better" if the charm "worked". It explains why he'd HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA. And it would explain why he likes drawing magic circles on his shit.

And in the end of episode 2, Battler had been drinking. We can't trust even his point of view then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470568
There is definitely more than one. Even more than half of the cast can be murderer.
If the Shannon=Kannon theory happens to be true, then we can count 2 hidden characters? Or what if someone other from the cast doesn't exist? In Ep1 there were 19 place at the table, one for Rosa's husband. ...but where was Ange's place?

[Anonymous No.]

Where does this Shannon = Kanon theory originate? Are people drawing this in parallel to Higurashi?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470787
Some of guys in Japan, including me, noticed that they never appear in Battler's narration at the same time.
It was mentioned just after EP4 was released.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470818

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470818
Now that you mention it, that does sound right. That would null the Kinzo is dead and still make room for an unknown person.

>>2469934
Of anything said in this thread, this seems the most likely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470818
Holy shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470626
> If the Shannon=Kannon theory happens to be true, then we can count 2 hidden characters?
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470818
Beato specifically mentioned both Shannon and Kanon were dead.

So they probably both 'existed' at one point, and if that theory is true, then one of them died and the other took their place.

In that case, I'd probably say Kanon was the one that died. There was that whole issue with his missing body in episode 2, and I guess it would be possible to make a fake body in 3.

Plus, I couldn't imagine Kanon continuing the relationship with George, but I could imagine Shannon pretending to have that whole relationship thing with Jessica in order to spare her 'feelings' or something.

I don't really like this theory very much, it just seems highly unlikely, and there are plenty of reasons they wouldn't be together at the same time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470852
We have to choose one.
1) Battler's narration can also be covered with magic.
2) Hallucination, which makes Battler see Beatrice's face, exists.
3) Shannon = Kanon, at least in October 4-5 1986.
4) Red text isn't truth.

I prefer 3).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470903
Why?

Can't we just say "Kannon and Shannon are servants in a very busy household and therefore are rarely serving the same people at the same time"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470626
Hmm... wouldn't Nanjo's seat be where Ange would sit according to the hierarchy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470950
Oh my fucking god.
Nanjo = Ange

[Anonymous No.]

ok, so the witches, demons and Battler are following the self-made game rules , playing from the meta-world and discussing every move made by the pawns at Rokknejima.

But what's the real meaning of the game?
(Battler wasn't playing as Beatrice opponent in meta-world in the first episode.)

Endelss witch election day?
Standard witch Entertainment?
What do the witches want?

and what the fuck is the golden land? Paradise? Alternate dimension? Mental masturbation?

What will happen if Battler loses? And if he wins?

[Anonymous No.]

Ryuukishi's art skill isn't excellent, but in Umineko, he has made different characters have different faces, than most of otaku-ish illustrators.
But, somehow, they strongly resemble each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470964
Those aren't what you ask to others but what you think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470955
It all adds up

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470964

>But what's the real meaning of the game?

Revive the witch.

>What do the witches want?

Beatrice - Revival as a Golden Witch
Lambdadelta - Game to continue forever MAYBE
Bernkastel - Human to be free of terrible fate by witch MAYBE

>and what the fuck is the golden land?

From the magical perspective, Beatrice's "home".
From the antimagic, the room with 10 tons of gold.

>What will happen if Battler loses?

The witch we be revived, and none shall be left alive.
Your journey shall end, and you shall reach the Golden Land.

>And if he wins?

May the Ushiromiyas rest in peace, and their murderer(s) get justice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470944
Battler saw "Beatrice" who has the same face as the portrait in his narration of EP4.
And red text said there weren't more than 18 people in Rokkenjima.
So we have to choose one of 1) - 4).

[Anonymous No.]

The Golden Land is shown in EP4. It's a place that is in the metaworld and it's sort of like a virtual reality in which anything you want can be materialized. It is beato's territory and only her magic can work inside it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2470944
They have never appeared in front of Battler at the same time, even when they weren't busy.
Remember at the night of October 4th of EP1, and at the morning of October 5th of EP2.
It was almost artistic "mutual exclusive".

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471017
Disguises mostly. There are lots of reasons to disguise as Beato, and if nothing else Maria saw Beatrice earlier, it's still very possible

[Anonymous No.]

The whole plot is fucking retarded. Pic related; an infinitely better story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471051
Not everything can have as much depth as Halo, anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471045

What Battler see is irrelevant, or we would have to believe in Beatrice, as evidenced by episode 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471045
So what's the true gender of Shkanon, because I'm not sure what would make their respective parent's head explode more, George being gay or Jessica being a lesbian?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471049
Whose disguise are Beatrice's FACE, and UNKNOWN voice?
And if it was someone's disguise, why did he/she wear different clothes from the portrait?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471085

Hideyoshi would accept George's decision and calm Eva over it.

However, Natsuhi's head would explode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471090
But what about the "Beatrice" of episode 2? Are we to believe she has no relation to the "19th person"? Especially since acting like Beatrice follows the MO dictated in >>2470618

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471085
George has said who he loves in Battler's narration, but Jessica hasn't made it clear yet.
And, there are both dead bodies in EP3, so at least they originally are two people.

Gender?
If we have to think their gender is same, probably most of us will say Kanon is a girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471107
Hideyoshi is not a good husband. Eva just thinks he is. You know the whole "he's good in private" thing? So's magic- effective in private. Reread the cigarette thing in episode 3, Eva honestly didn't think Hideyoshi ever left.

[Anonymous No.]

Jessica is the one who disguised herself as Beatrice, change of clothes and a complete change of attitude can do wonder.
She hinted to it in the second episode, with her talk about how she created another self within herself, also the Marisa cosplay was a hint.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471114
She takes off the wig and then lezes out with Jessica

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471109
If someone wanted to disguise oneself as Beatrice, he/she would wear same dress as the portrait.
But that Beatrice didn't need to do it.
Probably she is a person just as we(and they) saw.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471146
Why would wearing clothes absolutely be necessary to disguise yourself?

And we've seen the portrait change in episode 2, as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471146
That sort of dress really isn't practicable to walk outside. Also that "Beatrice" in the real world could be crazy, convinced that she really is the witch, if it was really Jessica, she could have some sort of multiple personality disorder or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471165
> Why would wearing clothes absolutely be necessary to disguise yourself?
Because it's very difficult to change your face and voice.
So when you disguise yourself as someone, you need to be helped by clothes who reminds others of that person.
But someone who really has the same face as portrait doesn't need to think of it.

> And we've seen the portrait change in episode 2, as well.
In fact the portrait didn't change.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

Okay guys, I've been discussing Umineko on another forum a great deal and have written something over 10,000 characters of statements questions and speculation. One segment of that I have taken right here in this thread (Shannon=Kanon) but the rest is my own.

Let's discuss that here.

It will be a huge tl;dr, but if you are truly interested in the Umineko conspiracy then you will read everything. I also implore you to at least skim through what I want to impart.

They will be seperated into two main parts
- STATEMENTS and
- QUESTIONS AND SPECULATIONS
Feel free to tear them apart.

SPOILER TAGS (eps 1 to 4) WILL NOT BE USED FOR MY SUCCEEDING POSTS READ WITH CAUTION

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

STATEMENTS THAT I FIND TO HOLD TRUTH

1a. The Rokkenjima Island of Octobers 4 and 5 of Umineko episodes 1 to 3 (hereby Rokkenjima) is both a realistic and a fantastic entity at the same time. Everything happening and everything that had happened in it CAN be explained by BOTH science and magic with EQUAL validity. Some of the intellectual tools that helped Battler so far:
- Devil's Proof
- Schroedinger's Cat
- Raven Paradox
are less of a simple intellectual exercise and more of a certificate of existence in Rokkenjima. Little people can and cannot be inside the Braun Tube at the same time. In the same manner, witches and magic both exist and do not exist at the same time in Rokkenjima. THEY ONLY EXIST IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE.

And to make humans accept that witches exist, human rules of proof MUST be employed. When a human who is easily impressed and influenced by unexplainable things deems it supernatural and magic, then only a few tidbits of human logic are sufficient to convice that person that what had happened was therefore supernatural... and in Rokkenjima it is therefore magic. But when a(n incompetent, lol) human who stubbornly and GENUNELY refuses to accept anything without evidence of worldly mechanics, it would bring down even the Golden Witch to a level where she had to follow human rules and line of thought just to prove that she exists as a being of magic, operating on rules outside human reality. Because she does not exist- she cannot exist unless she exists as a magical being in that person's mind.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

2. Rokkenjima is a closed Island in the same definition as Beatrice's closed room.

8 people were originally on the island:
- Kinzo
- Krauss
- Natsuhi
- Genji
- Shannon
- Kanon
- Kumakawa
- Gouda
- Nanjo

10 people went ashore from a boat onto the island:
- Eva
- Rudolf
- Rosa
- Jessica
- George
- Battler
- Maria
- Hideyoshi
- Kyrie

And there was no one else. Only 18 humans existed on the island.

Now due to the duality of reality and fantasy, one or more of these COULD BE foxes [reality] (e.g. green foxes vs. white sheep OR green foxes vs. yellow foxes vs. white sheep OR JUST green foxes vs yellow foxes and so on) AND AT THE SAME TIME none of them COULD BE foxes [fantasy] because the foxes are the witches and her furniture. Both explanations exist inside two closed boxes, and inside the reality box, 18 other smaller boxes exist, one or some of which contains a bomb. Then again, Both the big boxes could have contained bombs. This is not far from impossible.

Now Battler simply refuses to accept the magical box, automatically disregards it, and genuinely believes that only the human box as the outcome to be opened. The fact that both the realistic and the fantastic box exist in theory is totally irrelevant to the Umineko universe (but of course it is very very relevant to us readers) because the moment the fantastical box is disregarded, then its contents automatically do not exist. Schroedinger's cat SURELY survived in the box. It is SURELY not dead. This is why Beatrice (Ronove, etc) is limited in her use of red text. Her truth of killing people with magic is EQUALLY countered by Battler's truth of people being killed by purely scientific and physical means. When the function of the red text of truth is about to intersect the function of the explanation to the mystery (both reality and fantasy), it imitates the actions of the ultimate spear and the ultimate shield. It must.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471204
Clothes are important, but to convince someone, the right attitude and timing are far more important.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

QUESTIONS AND SPECULATIONS ON THE ULTIMATE WORKINGS OF THE STORY

1. All the red text are truth. Alright. But if we think of it in set theory, then everything that is outside the set of red text could be taken as either true or not true. It doesn't matter if we, the audience, see it happen. It doesn't matter if the story shows Beatrice or the Stakes or Eva killing people. IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER IF ROKKENJIMA BATTLER OR EVEN META BATTLER SEES OR HEARS A MURDER OR ANYTHING AT ALL HAPPEN IF IT WASN'T STATED IN RED. And we all know how red text is so, so slippery and relative. It it can find a crack to escape to, it will. If it can bend even the tiniest nanometer, it will.

I am bringing this up because of two things that I want to bring up, the second being more outlandish than its predecessor:

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

a) The first is Shannon and Kanon. There have been speculations that because Battler has never seen them both at the same time, they could actually be one and the same person. This has severe implications. It doesn't change the fact that there are 18 people on the island- and now one of those is a mystery person who is never seen. Could it have been the killer? The killer's accomplice?

And to expound on Shannon and Kanon possibly being one and the same: Obviously we have seen Battler speaking to either Kanon or Shannon and Battler seeing both George and Jessica crying for the loss of Kanon and Shannon and have seen other speak of them as different individuals but why did Ryukishi purposely avoid Battler seeing both at the same time? Shannon=Kanon could have been a person purposely donning both names at the same time, or it could be someone with multiple personality disorders. Still, this is a very weak position so I'm ending it at that. Feel free to add what you know.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

b) But wait a sec. Let's go back to the first time everything happened and discuss the REALLY important thing. Episode 1 was was seen through the eyes of Rokkenjima Battler. Meta Battler didn't exist back then. (so let us not think about red text for a moment) And in no time did he see any magic or supernatural actually happen in front of his eyes, which forms the foundation for his position of "witches do not exist". Assuming he was not delusional or drugged or intoxicated and everything which he had seen or heard or felt was how any sober, logical human being would have taken it (i.e. he is not an unreliable narrator) then we could take everything onscreen as the "Truth of the realistic world" as long as it was through his eyes. And there was no magic. The stance of magic only began to exist once he had gone into the meta world. Was it even real? What do we mean by real: Did that magical reality start to exist because Battler started to doubt physical laws because of the mystical murders?

[Anonymous No.]

crossovers are great

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko (ANTI-ANTISPAM MODE) No.]

In short (In long): Was it all a dream (I'M SERIOUS) before Battler's final moments and everyone actually died because of a human killer who waged a psychological warfare with the purpose of making the victims believe that it was the work of the supernatural? Was it Kinzo whose body was so charred it could not be identified except for the six toes and this could have easily been arranged? Did the culprit notice the scorpion tail charm in front of Natsuhi's doorknob, and instead of killing her, actually took advantage of the charm to make the survivors believe that the charm actually warded off the unexplainable? Was it the work of all the servants who were in league with Kinzo, who were either willing or forced to commit suicide (either self inflicted or just stay still and get killed)? Maybe it was even every family for themselves like a Battle Royale. Maybe it started out as self defense which killed the initial culprit/s, which then started a vicious circle of other self defenses.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko (ANTI-ANTISPAM MODE 2) No.]

And what's up with Maria (or was it?) uncharacteristically writing that message-in-a-bottle in the last part of Episode 1? Something is VERY VERY FISHY here.

I am with Battler. My position is that witches don't exist in Rokkenjima. Magic doesn't exist in Rokkenjima. Only science and physical reality do. Again, using the definition of Rokkenjima on my first post, it does not matter if magic and witches and the supernatural existed before Rokkenjima or October 4 and 5, 1986. It does not matter if Kinzo actually summoned the Endless Witch, Beatrice the Golden and put her in a homonunclus. That can be discarded. What is important is that IF I AM CORRECT, the whole of episode 1 HAD ZERO SUPERNATURAL. And I restate: the crime was done by humans or the environment using the physical laws or reality.

I honestly believe that in the end of Umineko episode 8, that will be the answer to the secret of the Mystery of Rokkenjima.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko (ANTI-ANTISPAM MODE 3) No.]

Now at the expense of sounding out of context with the above, I would like to address the part about "It was all a dream". Yeah, cliche and laugable. So why even make 7 episodes of Battler and Beatrice's Misadventures before announcing that the culprits were human after all, and that not only did people not believe witches so they couldn't exist in this world, it was that witches just didn't exist! What if, what if?

My position is that Beatrice- and in extension, witches do exist.. but the whole game of reality-or-magic was started AFTER the fact that everyone was killed by a human who, now that the red text has been introduced, is part of the 18. Before that, they were pieces outside the chessboard of episode 1 Rokkenjima who never interfered while everyone was getting slaughtered. So why did she start this game? I'd like to speculate that it's a mutual thing. Beatrice somehow needed to be revived

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko (ANTI-ANTISPAM MODE 4) No.]

"At the ninth twilight, the Witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive."

in whatever that word may have meant to her. (revive=not be dead; not be dead=be born OR be resurrected whatever that would mean) And to do that she might have had to follow the words written on the epitaph to achieve some goal. It would most likely have to do with Bern and 34 wanting to play a competitive game and she (had the unfortuante luck to be) sided with 34. Everything else we should already be familiar with. Battler becoming the piece of Bern just as Beato was 34's. And Beato HAS to win against Battler to be revived and that is why she not only has to recreate Rokkenjima again and again but she must also follow human rules of logic to force Battler to believe that magic exists in order to win. (remember. as long as Battler didn't know the truth about the murders and that he was aware of the occult-like atmosphere of the murders, then Beato could easily exxagerate from there, this is how magical elements were introduced in the story)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471220
But Battler was convinced "she is Beatrice" by seeing her face, not hair or such.
"Her face is perfectly same as the portrait" is what Battler's narration said.
In this context, I think that we need something like Hinamizawa Syndrome when we want to regard her as someone's disguise.
But I don't like such "magical non-magic" things.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko (ANTI-ANTISPAM MODE 5) No.]

Basically what I'm trying to say is, if we'll use a timeline:

[October 3, 1986] Everything is good with the world
[October 4-5, 1986] The Rokkenjima Massacre happens
[After October 5, 1986] Battler is taken to the Meta world by Beato and the game is started
[Soon after the above] The half-realistic half-fantastic New Rokkenjima of the ever-repeating game of October 4-5 is made. This is set to repeat until either Battler (Bern's piece) or Beato (34's piece) wins.
[Future timelines, 1998, etc] All created as part of the fantastic element for the New Rokkenjima, doesn't really "exist", never really "existed"

Well that's it.

[Anonymous No.]

no new information

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471266
When was the portrait put up anyway? It stood out to Battler, suggesting that it wasn't there 6 years ago. Is there any chance that it was made to look like 'Beatrice'?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471297

I believe it was added 2 years ago according to George.

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

Anyways, does anyone have a good image of the seven stakes which could be used for a wallpaper? I'd rather not use this one..

<-

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471266
Do you have any idea how expensive facial surgery is?

Oh wait.....

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471308
I've got a shitfuckton. commencing dump.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471270

Protip: Don't try theorizing about Umineko until you've completed every game. It just makes you look stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I'm a fucking liar, last one of only the stakes that I've got

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471312
Huh?
I said she is a person just as we saw, not a disguise by someone who appeared as an other character.
It means, that portrait actually is her portrait.
It doesn't need any facial surgeries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471356
btw... anyone got any good fanart of Kinzo/Goldsmith?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471359
I'm saying the "19th person" is someone, lets just assume a hitman for argument's sake, even though it could be anyone, who has financial backing to dress up as Beato and kill everyone, and try to get the family to believe in magic. Either way, SOMEONE is trying very hard to imitate Beato.

[Anonymous who thinks too much about Umineko No.]

>>2471348
As if I can read moon and complete episode 4.

If you're talking about Anje then I must admit that I still do not know if is real in the sense that she comes from the future of the true Rokkenjima or if she comes from the future of the new Rokkenjima.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471373
imitate, you say?

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2471356
Thanks anyway, I chose
>>2471356 for my PSP
>>2471328 for my DS

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2471396
er vice versa

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471396
sure thing, anon. anyone got some of >>2471367 btw? every time I look all I find is a modified sprite rip

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471373
I think she is 3rd Beartice, who has been grown by Kinzo in Rokkenjima.
Probably she is just behaving naturally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471270
God you people are dense.
1. The first clear incident of the supernatural occured in ep.1 -- funny how you types forget about the person made out of golden butterflies raising a staff at Natsuhi.
2. Why do we have to ignore the murders as they are thrown in our faces? Battler can do it, because it's the condition for victory, but why do WE have to? What's the POINT of spending so much time on showing us magical gore if it's all a dream?

And guess what, we're NOT Battler, we aren't trapped in his perspective, and we can see witches and magic occuring outside of the gameboard, so for US, witches exist, and so therefore there can't be any question that they would also exist where we see them murdering people IN the game. The argument "witches don't exist" simply cannot be used as evidence that a witch comitted a murder because WE. KNOW. THEY. EXIST! Why do you dimwits want to take this story like it's trying to fool you all instead at face value?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471535
You're the one that doesn't get it bro

[Anonymous No.]

>Why do you dimwits want to take this story like it's trying to fool you all instead at face value?
Because it's a Mystery game and we've only seen half the story.
Because at face value, Higurashi was just a game about killer lolis.
Because the first chapter of Higurashi had us doubting the protagonist's POV and provided a rational (if illogical) explanation for events in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471535
Aw shit, I just realized that this is copypasta

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2471535
>we see them murdering people IN the game. The argument "witches don't exist" simply cannot be used as evidence that a witch comitted a murder because WE. KNOW. THEY. EXIST!

true, but the guy's (>>2471270) point prolly was that all the murders caused by witches was not only shown to us but also to battler which should account for something as pre-meta battler never saw any murder caused by a witch or human

[Anonymous No.]

>>2471535
I think >>2471211 explains our point of view. Both magical and human explanations can exist. They both can be true, but one ends up being false if observed by Battler.

[Anonymous No.]

One other thing people don't seem to be taking into account:
Every Rokkenjima is different. They are all different kakera, parallel universes. For example, we can say that Shannon = Kanon in ep3 while they're two different people in ep2.
I don't have enough time to start an entire rant about how many things can be doubted if you take this into account, but I don't have time for that now.

I expect a full Battler-esque turnabout in discussion when I come back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474020
You merely haven't understood how to play When They Cry series.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2467081
That screenshot looks so cramped. I know his art is bad, but at least don't make the characters so huge.

[Anonymous No.]

Just finished episode one. So basically, Beatrice and the Rika look-alike are playing games based on the Rokkenjima murders with Battler being the Rika look-alike's character? I didn't really understand.

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2474425
My advice is to get away from this thread until you have at least finished Episode 3.

If you want to spoil yourself beforehand, then it's pretty obvious which posts in this thread are spoiler/speculation posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474452
Well I haven't really been spoiled much, since I don't understand half is what is being discussed since I only have episode 1 + tea party knowledge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474020
The pieces are the same in each game, their advance is the only thing what differs

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474425
>>2474466
You'll understand more and more as you play. I suggest you avoid Umineko threads until you finish up episodes 2 and 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474474
Correct. But who says Kanon and Shannon are both at the island at the start of the story, or that all of the guests arrive at the island?
Anything from the start of the story can change. Rosa can be late and miss the plane, removing one character. Kanon and/or Shannon can just choose not to come with the other person covering for them.

What I'm saying is that from the start of the story on, anything can be different between the different episodes.

If Kanon isn't on the island on ep2 but he is in ep3, then it's possible that Shannon = Kanon in ep2 but they're two different people in ep3, etc.

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2474566
Hmm you have a point there. The ever repeating October 4 and 5 starts at the airport, which is actually outside Rokkenjima...

Argh, my head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474596
In that case, let's address this plot hole: If only Rokkenjima is half in the realm of magic, why does the repetition start OUTSIDE OF ROKKENJIMA?
Magic should not have any influence outside of Rokkenjima, yet the start of the game is before they even arrive there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474566
It depends on what you believe.
Note that "Shannon = Kanon" theory is for those who have "Battler's narration is real" stance and "Beatrice's face that Battler saw in EP4 is real" stance.

And, if you haven't finished EP4, you can't discuss about that theory, because it's based on EP4's red text.
Actually "Shannon = Kanon" theory contains what you mentioned.
In EP1, Kanon must be alive on October 4.
In EP2, Shannon must be alive on October 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474627
You think magic repeats the story?

[Anonymous of the Wujiao Court No.]

>>2474675
I think Anje is fat. Does Ryukishi have a fatty thigh fetish? Anje is fat. Shannon is fat. Rosa is fat.

What's up with that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474675
That, or they move to a different kakera each time. If the latter is true, we're faced with the problem that Kinzo nows about previous games; something which shouldn't be possible if it's a parallel universe Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

*sigh*
So let me get this straight
EVERYONE in this thread believes that saying there are no more than 18 on the island means that corpses=people

[Anonymous No.]

>>2474814
Corpses = dead people
Dead people + alive people = people

[Anonymous No.]

i found it interesting that in ep3 near the end eva said that "no life forms other than humans are involved". doesnt that negate beatrice's existence?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2476629
A) Only if you consider witches a life form
B) Just because she wasn't the murderer at that moment doesn't mean she doesn't exist