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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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2380361 No.2380361 [Reply] [Original]

Lets get this straight. Marisa is Faster than Light. Marisa can survive in space. So why did Marisa and company have to waste time building a space ship to get them to the moon?

>> No.2380371

BECAUSE PLOT

Now stop reading derp derp in derp.

>> No.2380373

Key words there are >and company

>> No.2380388

Wait. What. Marisa isn't faster than light.

>> No.2380399

>Marisa is Faster than Light (670,616,629.2 mph)
>Youmu can known to go as fast as Mach 70 (53,200 mph)
>Aya is the only other character faster than Youmu

Come the fuck on you nigger.

>> No.2380402

>>2380388
Yes she is. In SSiB she blasted a master spark, hopped on broom, blasted another one for a dual spark all before the first one hit that moon lady who I don't give a fuck enough about to learn her name.

>> No.2380406

>>2380399
Fund it, etc.

>> No.2380421

>>2380399
>>>Youmu can known to go as fast as Mach 70 (53,200 mph)

You should know that that's no her upper limit. She could probably go faster seeing as she can already slow time using PURE SPEED.

>> No.2380447
File: 2.49 MB, 1024x1587, Flash math.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380447

>>2380402
And who says masterspark is faster than light? matter of fact I remember in IN that spell being slow enough to doge easily.

>>2380399
Still not as fast as the Flash.

>> No.2380449

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Youmu_Konpaku
>Because of Youmu's spellcard "200 Yojana in One Slash", she is said to be capable of striking at speeds most would consider physically impossible (200 yojana can be a distance anywhere from 1,320-3,000 kilometers or 825-1,875 statute miles in length). In order to cover that kind of distance in the split-second a typical sword slash takes to execute, she would have to be capable of moving at far beyond hypersonic speed; her slowest sword slashes have been calculated to move at speeds in excess of Mach 70 (70 times the speed of sound, or 53,200 mph/85,120 km/h at sea level), fast enough to circle the entire Earth at the Equator in less than half an hour and around three times the speed required to orbit the Earth, for reference. One doujinshi (Touhou Kaidan Seven #2) went into far too much detail trying to work out the specifics of this, and determined that her theoretical top speed was approximately one quarter of the speed of light...

>> No.2380478

>>2380449
Because God knows spellcard titles are accurate.

>> No.2380486

>>Marisa is Faster than Light (670,616,629.2 mph)
When was this canon?

>> No.2380500

>>2380447
Master Spark is a laser, this was stated in SSiB so to be faster than a laser you have to be faster than light.

>>matter of fact I remember in IN that spell being slow enough to doge easily.
Game play mechanic.

>>Still not as fast as the Flash.
No one is faster than flash except maybe flash.

>> No.2380502

>>2380486
Did you read the thread?

>> No.2380506 [DELETED] 

>>2380478
Some are like....hmmmmm Icicle Fall

>> No.2380515

Some are, like....hmmmmm Icicle Fall

>> No.2380522

>>2380500
To be faster than laser you need to be faster than the arc the hand of whomever is pointing the laser at you is making.

>> No.2380523

>>2380478
Yes yes they are accurate it's part of the danmaku rule set:

>>- Each spell shall be given a beautiful and meaningful name.

Plus it's stated in the description

>> No.2380524

>>2380500
A magical laser. Magical lasers can move slower than the speed of light.

Because they are magical.

Gensokyo does not obey the laws of physics. Because of magic.

INTRODUCING MAGIC INTO A SCIENTIFIC WORLD DOES NOT WORK, NOR DOES INTRODUCING SCIENCE INTO A MAGIC WORLD.

Science cannot explain how Suika can magically gain mass while changing her apparent size. Only magic can.

>> No.2380537

>>2380524

>Science cannot explain how Suika can magically gain mass while changing her apparent size

Easy.
She doesn't.
She stays at a set mass; it's merely EXTREMELY high when she's in her casual "small" form. Oppositely, when she goes huge, her density shifts accordingly.

>> No.2380538
File: 257 KB, 914x1300, silent_sinner_ch15_16.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380538

>>2380524
>>A magical laser. Magical lasers can move slower than the speed of light.

This was stated to be like a laser like a billion times. They even likened it to the ones NASA used.

>> No.2380552

>>2380538
You're still failing to realize how retarded it is to explain shit like this in a scientific manner. They can say it's a laser or whatever they want to but that doesn't mean that it's going to work in the exact same way. It's fucking magic.

>> No.2380553
File: 263 KB, 914x1300, silent_sinner_ch15_19.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380553

>>2380522
That's called aim dodging and no it doesn't work for this particular situation since you actually see marisa acting while the laser is in mid flight.

>> No.2380564
File: 257 KB, 914x1300, silent_sinner_ch15_20.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380564

>>2380553

>> No.2380566

>>2380538
Then by your logic this thread is pointless since the OP said Marisa is faster than light, but Marisa just said such a thing doesn't exist.

>> No.2380568
File: 258 KB, 914x1300, silent_sinner_ch15_21.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380568

>>2380564

>> No.2380572

>>2380552
I don't know why you have to be so adamant about it. It's not like we don't have free reign in regards to small details like this in the Touhouverse. If you don't like it, you can just drop it, justify it, and leave it at that. No need to cause wars over it.

>> No.2380580

it's a frilly dressed doll shootan game made by a japanese drunkard, you think science and physical law is considered?

FUCKING YOU FAGS ARE LOOKING WAY TOO DEEP INTO IT

>> No.2380583

>>2380572
How am I causing a war? If you want to try to scientifically analyze the magical attacks of fictional characters written by a drunk Japanese man, well, that's your business. But I'm going to tell you that it's retarded.

>> No.2380596

>>2380537
Except there's no limit to how spread out she can become, she can maintain her consciousness while a MIST, and her weight while she is normal is also normal. She doesn't weigh the same as she does when she's a giant. Weight is a function of mass, not size.

Therefore, science cannot explain it, unless you're going to take the Hulk's "missing matter due to dimensional pockets" approach, which was always bullshit.

It's all magic. Just treat it as such.

>> No.2380601

>>2380566
No "Not by my logic". Marisa says nothing is faster than light but then outruns a laser. Contradiction in character statements don't disprove an event. It just means that said characters are fallible. We see that shit all the time in literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator).).

>>2380552
There is nothing scientific about it. Marisa out ran a ray of light therefore she's faster than light. I'm not pulling out complex equations here, just simple deduction.

>> No.2380611

>>2380583
Well, that's nice and all, but there's really no reason to try and force them into taking everything into a "magical" mindset. I myself side with the idea that it's magic, and SSiB is outright ridiculous, but them having their own ideas about the Touhouverse is as natural as me having my own ideas about the Touhouverse.

>> No.2380625

>>2380596
Hi. I see you have an uphill struggle with fiction. If a character does something to break the laws of physics then a SMART reader would do one of the following:

1) Wait for a plot device or pseudo scientific explanation and if non is given 2) Take it at face value.

It's not that hard.

>> No.2380626

>>2380611
>SSiB is outright ridiculous, but them having their own ideas about the Touhouverse is as natural as me having my own ideas about the Touhouverse.

BUT SSiB IS CANON. It's not the same as taking a random doujin artist's views as likely or unlikely.

The fact that it's canon is why it is, in fact, so terrible.

>> No.2380629

>>2380611
There's still no need to argue about it, its just like the God vs Atheist flame wars.

RETARDED

>> No.2380636

You fucking nerds know more about Touhou physics than ZUN does, and that's not a good thing.

>> No.2380644

>>2380601
My point was that Marisa could have been just trying to sound fucking epic. So far you've been treating every letter as scientific fact. What is it the fucking bible to you?

So you're trying to say that, based on this comic, that Marisa is 12000x faster than Youmu on her slowest attacks speeds and is probably 300~600x faster than Aya.

Of course everyone is going to call you a faggot.

>> No.2380652

>>2380636
ZUN SAYS WE USE THE LUNAR VEIL TO FLY FROM EARTH TO MOON

ZUN SAYS THE LUNAR VEIL IS MADE FROM ANTI-MATTER

DOES ZUN KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER AND ANTI-MATTER MEET?

>> No.2380661

You know, ZUN probably just said it's a laser because he thought it sounded neat. It doesn't move as fast as light. Do you honestly think he knows anything about physics? You're all fucking retarded.

>> No.2380662

>>2380636
Have you ever read Magical Astronomy?
Has anyone?

>> No.2380664

>>2380626
It may be canon, but it's such a minor detail, I don't know why you'd need to argue heavily about it. One guy will say, "Yeah, I'll stuck to canon" and say that Marisa's faster than light. Another guy will say, "That doesn't make sense to me, it's just magic." And that's that. No ones more retarded for having either opinion, as both are entirely reasonable depending on how you decided to view the situation.

>> No.2380669

>>2380652
>DOES ZUN KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MATTER AND ANTI-MATTER MEET?

They get shit-faced wasted and end up fucking each other, then regretting it in the morning.

>> No.2380672

Yuka is stronger than Sikieiki and Yukari

>> No.2380686

ZUN never said that in a certain magical land filled with fairies, demons and what not Lasers are made of light.

Maybe he just used the term "Laser" to give you a better imagination of what it is. Why would a society as scientifically thrown back as the one in Touhou actually know about lasers? Oh, because they're magic? But what part of "but they're magic" applies logic? None.

WHY DO YOU SEEK LOGIC IN FICTIONAL STORIES, OP? WHY?

>> No.2380690

>>2380669
Idiot

>> No.2380691

I learned how these things work in /m/. It's not science or magic, it's Hotblood, which has only one rule- "Scream loud enough and you can do anything."

>> No.2380701

>>2380686
Why not? It's all in good fun as long as people aren't slinging shit at each other.

>> No.2380705

>>2380691
Not a shounen asshole

>> No.2380709

>>2380644
>>My point was that Marisa could have been just trying to sound fucking epic

Yes, except that this was validated by moon bitch who confirmed that Master Spark is in fact a laser, (>>2380553) So no, it's not an exaggeration, master spark really is light and thus moves at light speed.

>>So you're trying to say that, based on this comic, that Marisa is 12000x faster than Youmu on her slowest attacks speeds and is probably 300~600x faster than Aya.

This is a character statement from a canon source, not a fan made calculation like youmou's speed. In terms of validity this scene is far more legit. See it this way if Marisa is FTL that means, Youmou is faster than that and Aya is faster than both of them putting the fast people of Gensokyo at FTL.

>>So far you've been treating every letter as scientific fact.

I'm not applying science here at all. I'm saying character statements and canon events should be taken as such. Even if it breaks the laws of science.

>> No.2380717

>>2380701
>as long as people aren't slinging shit at each other.
Well that worked well.

>> No.2380718

take this shit back to gaia please

>> No.2380722

>>2380686
>>2380553

>>It's easier to cut through light.
HURR

>> No.2380725

>>2380690
No, anonymous. You are the un-smart one.

>> No.2380728

>>2380709
see
>>2380661
>>2380686

>> No.2380731

Physics major here.
You know shit, fuck.

>> No.2380734

>>2380718
Yes, expose gaifags to Touhou so we can have threads like this everyday! Kill yourself.

>> No.2380744

>>2380709
>I'm not applying science here at all.
PROTIP: speed of light is a scientific construct

In other news: touhou is DEEP

>> No.2380746
File: 340 KB, 1000x800, 1237355350295.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380746

This is why we can't have nice things.

You guys need to take it easy and be more tolerable about different ideas!

>> No.2380747

>>2380731
Teach us.

>> No.2380748

>>2380728
>>2380661
>>2380686

Jesus christ moon bitch called it a fucking laser, Marisa calls it light. What now, Touhou light is slower than real light?

>> No.2380755

>>2380747
Like anyone would understand

>> No.2380760

>>2380748
No. What's important is that ZUN DOESN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THIS. He just called it a laser to sound cool. He doesn't know anything about lasers/antimatter/physics/etc. Goddamn, it's not that hard of a concept. Using something ZUN wrote as a scientific statement is fucking retarded.

>> No.2380768

>>2380755
Teach it like you would teach a 12 year old. You know, what /jp/ likes. Brush up on your skills.

>> No.2380769

>>2380760
>>2380662

>> No.2380771

>>2380748
Possible

The term "Laser" does not include the definition "consists of light", especially when talking about a multiverse (which Earth + Gensokyo represents in this state). What do you think? Why is there a term "Laser", yet nothing like a laser that actually EXISTS ON EARTH that is KNOWN as laser was ever shown? Would you go to Marisa and show her a laser pointer, going all "THIS IS A LASER IT IS MADE OF LIGHT AND STIMULATED EMISSION"? Do you think she'd stop calling the Non-Directional Laser so just because some puny human with a red dot told her so?

You're a bonehead and you know it. Stop running your head into a wall

polite sage

>> No.2380773

>>2380734
>implying that the western touhou fanbase isn't already 99% gaiafags
Ahahahaha.

>> No.2380774

>>2380748
I don't know, why don't you go ask ZUN

>> No.2380775

>>2380747
Not >>2380731
But you are fucking stupid. We are not your source. We are not your translator. We are not here to supply with knowledge. We are not here for you.

You don't even belong here. gtfo, you aren't Neo, and we aren't your fucking Orpheus.

>> No.2380779

>>2380760
What you're claiming that ZUN doesn't know light moves at light speed? He's drunk, not stupid.

>> No.2380784

>>2380771
光線
NOPE LAZER ISN'T MADE OF LIGHT AT ALL.

>> No.2380789

>>2380769
I'm not going to read it. You're welcome to tell me how it validates ZUN as being knowledgeable about physics, though.

But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that it's fiction and it doesn't make sense scientifically.

>> No.2380793

>>2380779
No, he's claiming that ZUN doesn't know shit about lasers. Not what they are, not what they're supposed to be.

You've also never played Imperishable Night, right?

Have you ever SEEN the Master Spark move? It's easily dodgeable for any elementary school kid, so how come IT MUST BE SPEED OF LIGHT?

>> No.2380797

>>2380779
Knowing basic scientific facts doesn't mean that you're going to model your fictional magic attacks around the scientific properties of lasers.

>> No.2380798

>>2380771
I'd show her my "laser" if you know what I mean.

>> No.2380802

>>2380768

There's nothing to teach, the topic was stupid from the very start. Leaving to subjective ideas about physics in Gensokyo.
I would just suggest everyone to read Magical Astronomy so you get an idea of how ZUN deals with physics.

>> No.2380804

Marisa's laser is made of mana

>> No.2380811

>>2380771
It's like I'm talking to a rock.

It was called light. It was stated to be light. She even says it's easier to cut because it is light. Ive posted dialog of them calling it light. How the fuck is light not moving at light speed?

>> No.2380812

>>2380775
Not >>2380747
But, nothing wrong with asking a question, especially when someone is bitching. I don't give a shit if he's a physics major, the argument over physics in a fictional setting. If he doesn't want state what he feels the problem is then he can "gtfo".

>> No.2380824

>>2380789
What. ZUN only does whatever he feels would make a good story. After he learned about the hydrogen fission plants he thought it would be interesting to make a character based off it.
He takes stories from his home town and changes the monsters into little girls. I don't remember him ever saying anything about or ever implying anything other than simply enjoying how the patterns spread out while he's wasted.

>> No.2380825

>>2380789
If you haven't read all of ZUN's written material you need to get out.

>> No.2380827

>>2380811
BUT ZUN DOESN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THIS. You can't trust what he says scientifically. It's a goddamn magic attack. It isn't even possible.

>> No.2380833

>>2380824
Then that means you agree with me. ZUN isn't a reliable source scientifically. Treating him like he is doesn't make any sense.

>> No.2380835

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Magical_Astronomy:_Story

>> No.2380837

So basically we have people calling Zun a retard and ignoring canon because it makes them feel bad.heh.

>>2380793
Gameplay mechanic.

>>2380797
Burden of proof is on you to prove that the beam everybody calls lasers, everybody says is made of light etc doesn't act like it. Simple.

>> No.2380838

>>2380833
I'm not the other guy though.

>> No.2380839

>>2380784
>光線
>LAZER

Congratulations, your system of translating japanese words into english is even worse then Kunrei-shiki (YUMIDUKA much?)

>> No.2380842

>>2380825
if you havent cleared all of zun's games on lunatic you need to get out.

derp

>> No.2380847

>>2380825
I'm fine, bro. Reading badly translated pseudoscience/magic babble doesn't appeal to me.

>> No.2380849

>>2380842
I have

>> No.2380854

>>2380847
Then, get out

>> No.2380855

>>2380849
i said lunatic not easy

>> No.2380857

it's just a game you idiots

know what fiction means? not real

know what reality is? this physical universe with it's physical laws

can fiction equal reality? NO by strict definition

>> No.2380859

>>2380838
And...? I said that >>2380824 is in agreement with what I said. I don't remember quoting any other posts.

>> No.2380866

>>2380854
u mad?

>> No.2380874

>>2380855
..............
The fact that can't 1cc on lunatic doesn't mean nobody else can.

>> No.2380877

>>2380859
EVERYONE IS ANONYMOUS STOP CONFUSING ME

>> No.2380880

>>2380847
>pseudoscience
Actually, it's not.

>> No.2380893

The real deal here is that OP is doing something terrible. He's taking Touhou down the path Evangelion, Lain and Xenogears trampled into the earth more then a decade ago - he is overanalyzing something so hard that any and all fun is lost in the process.


Fuck you, OP. Fuck you.

Plus it's a magical land thus it's made of magic. Fuck SSiB, it's about as canon as whatever it is that he writes into the code. Yes, I mean the comments.

>> No.2380900

>>2380874
the problem in your statement becomes apparent when you consider that everyone who CAN play touhou well doesn't give a shit about this stuff. Virtually everyone interested in the world/characters/physics of touhou sucks dick at the games, and everyone knows it.

>> No.2380908

>>2380900
I suck dick at the games and still don't care about anything you listed.

>> No.2380911

>>2380908
Exceptions don't make the rules.

>> No.2380915

>>2380857
Philosophy Majors must give you wedgies and wet willies.

You can argue that Universal != Real.
Math is Universal but it's only a measure created to describe a function that doesn't exist. Even if we call it math it is all possible that what we are doing is absolutely wrong. Even if it's universally present it cannot have form because it's an idea.
Math is fictional, but it is real.
Just because things aren't real doesn't mean they are not real. All fiction is based on some type of truth. There is a way that it can exist, but then again I was agreeing with you.

I just separate logic into useful and useless. This... is a useless logical-esk founded system of thoughts. It holds as much light to a candle as the Arcana.

>> No.2380916 [DELETED] 

>>2380908
A implies B, but B doesn't necessarily imply A.

>> No.2380918

>>2380900
Well, I consider every fan should at least 1cc all the games on normal and read all the written canon material.

>> No.2380922

>>2380918
Does ZUN pay you to say that?

>> No.2380923

>>2380915
Math is universal as long as nobody proves otherwise, it's basically a theory. Just like evolution.

If anybody comes around the block proving that it, in fact, is quite possible to divide anything by zero then math as we know it is screwed and so are all creations based on it.

>> No.2380926

>>2380923
Hello, my name is number theory.

>> No.2380928

>>2380922
10$ weekly

>> No.2380931

>>2380918
No fan has to fucking do anything they don't want to. There's no set criteria for being a "fan". If you like the games but can't beat them, that's fine. If you don't want to read any of the canon material, that's fine. None of it matters beyond what you personally enjoy doing.

I am, though, of course speaking about reality, and not internet asperger's land, so you will probably disagree with me.

>> No.2380934

>>2380926
Ulam spiral is full of swastikas

>> No.2380939

>>2380931
I'm from aspenger land and I will say I am quite indifferent to your post as I have aspenger's syndrome.

Unless you mean forum aspenger land where we cut ourselves.

>> No.2380946

>>2380915
No one gives a shit about philosophy majors. It's like OOH BOY ASTROPHYSICS MAJORS MUST BEAT YOU UP FER TALKIN BOUT SPACE WRONG!

>> No.2380952

>>2380915
Philosophy majors are people educated for unemployment and they know it

They'd give him wedgies and wet willies, but only if he'd pay them.

>> No.2380963
File: 8 KB, 294x400, Freud.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2380963

>>2380946
>>2380952
What, no no no. I'm talking Philosophy, not metaphysics. None of that Aristotle bullshit.
We get paid for telling people that they are retarded and need pills. Well, just that good Psychiatrists are born from Philosophy Majors.

>> No.2380990

>>2380523
Meaningful doesn't mean literal. Youmu is in charge of a 200 yojana garden. It makes sense to brag that she'd kill you no matter where you try to sneak in.

>> No.2381270

>>2380893
>>Hurr it hurts to think too deeply about shit.

>>
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