/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

hey guys is this book any good?
It doesn't have very many reviews anywhere

i dont wanna do heisig, so don't even start

[Anonymous No.]

There is no way this could be good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>236741
>Mangaland
I don't think so Tim ಠ_ಠ

[Anonymous No.]

楽勝！

[Anonymous No.]

Downloading this shit for the lulz.
http://nihongo-dekimasu.blogspot.com/2008/02/kanji-in-mangaland-ebook.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>236783
thats where i got it

enjoy your 30MB .djvu file
Then tell me if you think its worth the download

[Anonymous No.]

>>236792
How the fuck do you read a .djvu file?

[Anonymous No.]

obscure as shit, but you can find freeware on google

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=114927

[Anonymous No.]

>>236783
If you're going there anyway, take a look at the Erin ga Choosen - Nihongo Dekimasu eps.

Not necessarily to get your benkyou on, but because Erin's friend Saki is FUCK HAWT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>236792
I already know basic japanese and am capable of remembering kanji by even reading them out of a dictionary if I feel like it. Of course it's not worth it.

But then, I'm incapable of learning by associating kanji with images (and have difficulty with mnemonics) so my opinion is definitely not the best.

[Anonymous No.]

>>236851
my problem isn't so much memorizing them...but memorizing a bunch of compounds and readings...

i want some sort of reading comprehension that wouldn't be too hard...and this has that thing at the end of the chapter

any suggestions?

[Anonymous No.]

>>236862
Learn them slowly but steadily and make an effort to keep memorizing and use them. I don't really think it's as important to try to remember every single compound over the individual kanji meaning, on the basis of it being like trying to remember all the words that start with "dis-" when you just need to know how to say "disappear." Also so you can just easily look up strange compounds in a dictionary or online.

Exposure and a dictionary will help a lot. I suppose the manga segments are good for that, and it overall reminds me of my Japanese homework. It's probably not as bad as it seems.

Learning is ultimately going to mostly depend on how well you try to learn them though. Just focus on memorizing a few (like 10) kanji every day. You'll begin remembering compounds from reading things that have them.

[The Oba-chan Seducer !7kjGbZlVeg No.]

When learning kanji, do you guys memorize all the readings of it? I just learn them in the situation they're used, like 季節, I know it's pronounced kisetsu, which makes it easier to remember both kanji.

Learning 1945 random kanji is too much for me, I need context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>237016
Yeah, but that's assuming you're at least fairly familiar with grammar and general sentence structure in Japanese. Plus, if you're just reading random stuff (say, 2ch, or manga), you're still going to come across a lot of foreign kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>237129
I wouldn't use 2ch to learn proper japanese. Even moonspeak has netspeak.
>you're still going to come across a lot of foreign kanji.
This is how you decide what kanji to learn once you've gotten some basic ones down.

And yes, it's assuming you know sentence structure and grammar. If you don't know those, you are not ready to learn kanji. It's way easier to learn kanji when you know the words they're for already. It is like FUCK YES I CAN WRITE THIS LONG ASS SENTANCE IN HALF THE CHARACTERS AND SPACE.

[Anonymous No.]

I lol'd

[Anonymous No.]

>>237249
Fucking hat spiders.

In before someone reads it as spi-c.

[Anonymous No.]

>>237048
see, that's why i'm looking for things to help me learn in context. I dont want to memorize kanji upon kanji upon kanji...i want to actually learn them and put them into use

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>236741
I'm not into manga but whatever swings your boat.

> i dont wanna do heisig, so don't even start
there are thousands of other ways of learning kanji

>>236851
> capable of remembering kanji by even reading them out of a dictionary if I feel like it. Of course it's not worth it.
Obviously not. The cool gys don't use their full potential amirite.

> But then, I'm incapable of learning by associating kanji with images (and have difficulty with mnemonics) so my opinion is definitely not the best.
ur doin it wrong :3

[Anonymous No.]

>>237249
Looks like they decided "mexican moustache" just MIIIIGHT be a bit racist, last second.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>236862

> my problem isn't so much memorizing them...but memorizing a bunch of compounds and readings...
> i want some sort of reading comprehension that wouldn't be too hard...and this has that thing at the end of the chapter
> any suggestions?

You set a limit on the number of available choices in the OP post (and all learning methods are interdependent with each other), takes too much time to figure out whatever the hell it is that you want. I'm not sure if you know yourself, no offense lolz. :3

[Anonymous No.]

>>239526
>I'm not into manga

you're dead to me.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>237016

> Learn them slowly but steadily
Sounds like self inducing pain but ok

> and make an effort to keep memorizing
> effort to keep memorizing
> memorizing
yooop

> and use them. I don't really think it's as important to try to remember every single compound over the individual kanji meaning, on the basis of it being like trying to remember all the words that start with "dis-" when you just need to know how to say "disappear."
Exactly. That's like the dumbest way of learning anything (the dis- thing). You fill a puzzle by matching similar (or "continuous" looking :3) elements, not by looking for piece no1, no2, no3, no4, no5, no6, no7 etc

> Exposure
wut

> and a dictionary will help a lot. I suppose the manga segments are good for that, [...]
kay

[Anonymous No.]

wats a manga?

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239552

like I give a fuck :3

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>237048
>When learning kanji, do you guys memorize all the readings of it?
no

>Learning 1945 random kanji is too much for me, I need context.
context won't give you a clue on why a square is a mouth

>>237190
> I wouldn't use 2ch to learn proper japanese. Even moonspeak has netspeak.
Oh and what's wrong with that? netspeak is better than nospeak.

> And yes, it's assuming you know sentence structure and grammar. If you don't know those, you are not ready to learn kanji.
That's some BS right there, sir.

> It's way easier to learn kanji when you know the words they're for already.
The kanji readings that is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>239594
Come now, that's no way to talk to the King of /jp/.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239639
why don't you go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.]

>>239651
I never thought I'd meet such a touchy tripfag. At least make it a challenge.

[Coffee Anon !3I4SJbCh8M No.]

Kanji De Manga is good, unless you're a faggot who likes to say "neko neko kawaii desu ne".

It's more serious towards the student, and puts them on the right path.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239668
Aye okay captain!

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239697
neko neko kawaii desu ne

[Anonymous No.]

>>239755
Go to bed, son.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239763
Moooom~, 5 more minutes, plox!!! T_________T

[Anonymous No.]

Why is Heisigs method shunned upon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>239770
no readings lol

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239770
Because when you only look at the outside appearance without trying to understand what the method is all about it looks pretty stupid. Like learning something unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>239780
>>239778
I see. I currently have his book for Kanji, is there a better alternative?

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239770
But when you try your best at memorizing 500 kanji and you find out you forgot 90% after 6 months you realize it wasn't that stupid after all.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239789
no but I respect all opinions etc lol :3

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239789
no

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239789
> have his book
What book? The "How to Remember Kanji I" or the OP one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>239805
Heisig's remembering the Kanji.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>239813
>>239789
> is there a better alternative
No AFAIK but you may find one.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

Actually yes, the best "method" imho is to try all the methods (plus create your own) and write down which were the most effective. Redo the same thing over and over (the exploring & testing part) and analyze the trends, tendencies, patterns and think. :3

[Anonymous No.]

>>239871
>the best "method" imho is to try all the methods (plus create your own)

yea that sounds efficient...

[Anonymous No.]

>>240280

Yeah, because the most efficient thing you can do is find somebody to tell you how you think and read your mind...

If you do not know how to learn then why bother?

[Anonymous No.]

>>240280
Actually, it reminds me of the ending of Drunken Master (somebody SAGE me for Jackie Chan reference in a /jp/ thread). I especially dig the going back to beginner's mind bit (yes, more than once).

INB4 "I'll teach you how to fart!"

[Anonymous No.]

>If you do not know how to learn then why bother?

I've suffered from never really figuring out how I learn things. It seems like some things stick and others do not, and it is hard to tell what causes this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>240326
No one knows what the fuck you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>239632
magic_usagi -- i see you all over the place. You seem to be some sort of kanji-learning mastermind

what do YOU do, and how can we apply it to our own knowledge?

[Anonymous No.]

>>241811
magic usagi, like many tripfags, is all talk and bullshit and doesn't know anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>241864
well then what can you tell me

[Anonymous No.]

>>241876
Nothing that you can't find out on your own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>241883
so you dont know anything, basically

[Anonymous No.]

You know, I'm kind of surprised at myself. I'm not raging about the fact that the book is titled "Kanji in MangaLand." I'm raging because both the Kanji Kentei and JLPT begin with higher numbers and work their way down, so Levels 2 and 1 are actually the hardest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>241948
lol why does that make you rage? I think it's cool.
It tells you how many peers you have. At level 4, you have a lot of peers who pass it. Then, as you progress, there are less and less people who pass it.
Then, finally you're #1!!!

[Anonymous No.]

As an impartial observer fluent in Japanese, I'm going to have to suggest that YOU ALL SETTLE DOWN NOW PLEASE and not fight over how to study kanji; everyone has different ways of approaching it, but ultimately, it's a process of memorization mixed with association, but you're going to have to buckle down and do some memorizin' before you have a strong enough base of knowledge to be able to associate.

Personally, I'd steer clear of methods that have you interpolate bizarre, nonsensical crap into your learning (like the sombrero-spider. What the fuck?), as that sort of information won't be of much aid to you when you're dealing with more complicated characters composed of several radicals; it would be better, in my opinion, to focus on what the general meanings or associations of what the "simpler" characters are(by "simple," I mean those that are often used as radicals in more complex characters), as that will help you recall what character is used in what context when you're dealing with characters that are identical save for one radical, etc.

When I started, I didn't use any sort of text book -- I just wrote things out. And wrote them out. And wrote them out, ad nauseum. That's what you have to do at first, and is what every little Japanese child has to do, as well. Eventually, you'll get to a point where you see 99% of all kanji as composed of a bunch of easily recognizable and writable parts (and this, of course, is where knowing those basic On-yomi comes in handy, as many characters have pseudo-phonetic elements).

Unfortunately, I never started from your position, so I can't really give the BEST advice for beginners, but I know what's valuable once you get to high-intermediate/advanced levels. Of course, I'm still learning, too. SO MUTUAL SUPPORT HAAAA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>241948
Did you take Kanji Kentei? From a Japanese point of view, level 1 is ridiculous because most of the new entries (3000 kanjis for level 1 : so the total number of 6000 kanjis should be tested) are not actually contemporarily used except when you do a lot of research on kanji. :(

[Anonymous No.]

>>237048
I don't know if this kind of kanji learning textbooks are sold overseas, but it might be good to reduce the burden of learning by forming a sentence in which same kanjis are used differently like : 体力をつけるために力んで力こぶをつくる。
You can learn 3 ways of pronouncing the same kanji: 体力(tai ryoku), 力む (riki mu), 力こぶ(chikara kobu). I'm just saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>242034
That was my point.

[Anonymous No.]

The plural of kanji is kanji, not kanjis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>242251
Oops, I didn't know that. Thanks.

>>237048
There's some good tip for learners of kanji.
For examle, 購入, which means "purchase" in english. I'm sure you know the left part of this kanji is made of 貝 (kai : shell in English) and shells are used as money far back. So many kanji using 貝 have something to do with money, such as 買う (kau : buy) and 財産
(zai san : asset). And if you pay attention to the right part, 才 as in 財産, you'll notice its pronunciation comes from 才. So in a nutshell, basically, kanji has two parts (its sound and its meaning). If you keep that in mind, I'm sure it'd be easier to memorise many kanji. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.]

HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG HEISIG
Do it faggot. I don't give a shit if you don't wanna do it.
Otherwise, have fun never being literate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>242159
Now that's interesting.

Of course, coming up with the sentences on my own would be FUCK MENDO- good practice, too.

[Anonymous No.]

HEISIG = BRAIN WASHED QUEERS.

People learn differently, one size does not fit all. Lurk Moar

[Anonymous No.]

>>242611
The HEISIG agenda...?

[Anonymous No.]

I started with Heisig and got burned out after something like 100 kanji...totally not a good method in my opinion. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

Sombrero-Spider cannot defeat Spider-Napoleon

[Anonymous No.]

>>239778
Jesus. I was gonna go for heisig because I'd heard such good things about it. Now I'm not because the one thing that messes me up the most when trying to read kanji is when I fucking read it in ENGLISH insead of the reading(s). I'm trying to find a book that'll not be very like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>239697
Looks like I can get it for £3 ($6~). Should I go for it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>242702
I am of the opinion you can never have enough books.

Self study be hard, a variety of books really helps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>242702
fuck no. get it free (but $6 for a physical copy is a good deal)
I've heard good things about it too, so here you go:
http://rs239.rapidshare.com/files/82370523/Kandemang.rar

[Anonymous No.]

also, if you're determined, and actually want to LEARN kanji...this is among the best
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OBDJJ5J6

[Anonymous No.]

>>242702

Where can you get it for £3?

[Anonymous No.]

>>242881
I find it extremely hard to learn from ebooks. I have no idea why.

>>242966
Amazon, lel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>243003
I'm pretty similar, because while I still have access to the internet, I find it hard to buckle down...instead I do research on the books and try and find the best one...but that's just me

[Anonymous No.]

My learning strategy: don`t bother hiragana and katakana, and just learn the kanji.

I don`t need to pronounce stuff, and even if I can interpret the sounds of a sequence of hira or kata, I still don`t know what the word means. - it`s only translated halfway. Kanji solves that problem.

I wonder how well this will work, I only started last week, but I have a few hundred kanji down. Obviously it will never make me anywhere close to fluent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>243048
>My learning strategy: don`t bother hiragana and katakana

lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>243048
>don`t bother hiragana and katakana

I would suggest this also if you were, say, learning French.

[Coffee Anon !3I4SJbCh8M No.]

>>243048
LOL
OH WOW

I hope you're kidding.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>241811
> You seem to be some sort of kanji-learning mastermind
No.

>what do YOU do
I do >>239871

>>241864
Sad truth. ;_;

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>242025
> I'd steer clear of methods that have you interpolate bizarre, nonsensical crap into your learning
But that's what makes learning interesting for many people. Reading for the 100th time stories about Mr John arriving at the Tokyo airport or re-reading 走れメロス may become extremely boring after a while. "Spiders" and absurd situations even if not true can be much more interesting.

> as that sort of information won't be of much aid to you when you're dealing with more complicated characters composed of several radicals;
Once you learn a combination of radicals the new structure becomes a new "symbol". Do you see the 車 as 十 + 田 + 十 or as 車? I see the latter. Memorizing the character as a car (seen from bird's eye) with most parts stolen won't interfere with memorizing that a person who experienced his car being robbed was probably very unfortunate (轗).

> it would be better, in my opinion, to focus on what the general meanings or associations of what the "simpler" characters are
That's a very good way, yet it's just one of many. This exercise also has flaws like the primitive kanji which construct other kanji not being used often or sometimes not even figuring on the 常用漢字 list.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>242025
> I just wrote things out. And wrote them out. And wrote them out, ad nauseum.
As with everything IMHO; as long as it's fun it's a good exercise.

One thing to keep in mind: while writing things many times will improve the character drawing skills and possibly character recognition it won't necessarily help the learner to memorize the actual characters.

> is what every little Japanese child has to do,
Again, true, but most of us here are adults and we can achieve many things by implementing good strategies rather than repeating boring tasks over and over, little children can't do that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>243108
Good thing I'm fluent in French.

[Anonymous No.]

>>243048
hiragana and katakana agreed, don't bother them about it.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>242687
> Jesus. I was gonna go for heisig because I'd heard such good things about it.
> Now I'm not because the one thing that messes me up the most when trying to read kanji is when I fucking read it in ENGLISH insead of the reading(s).
What's wrong with that? It won't make your brain crash or anything. IMHO it's better to learn the "English" meanings quickly first and then fill the missing parts of a well laid out puzzle with on and kun than to struggle by finding piece one, piece that matches piece one, piece that matches piece 3, etc, etc.

>>243048
That's like the best way of learning Japanese I guess. :3 seriously

> Obviously it will never make me anywhere close to fluent.
By thinking this way it's like you've already decided. Attitude affects things heavily.

[Anonymous No.]

>>243048
a few hundred kanji??? what method are you using?

[Anonymous No.]

>>243419
Because I find it disabling and hard to unlearn.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>243767
How can too much information (correct information that is) be disabling? Do you find that having the additional info w=double-u, i=eye :3, n=en, d=dee in your head make it more difficult for you to read "wind" as "wind"?

Also do you hear the words in your head when you look at numbers? (0123456789) If yes/no why?

[Anonymous No.]

>>244038
Yes, I do. I've always done.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244062
What about this one? Do you hear words?

[Anonymous No.]

>>244125
let me get your opinion on something....

would it be more beneficial to learn all the radicals (a la "Let's Learn Kanji") or learn them in gradeschool order (a la "Kanji in Mangaland")
not necessarily using the mentioned books exclusively...but using that order

I'd like to do both, because with radicals -- it's multipurpose, but with gradeschool order, you are, in effect, "growing up" and you "know how old you are"

[Anonymous No.]

Not just Japanese, but any language, you need to be able to think in that language to be truly fluent in it. So reading kanji in English isn't a good thing. Of course, if you're only learning to read, and not first learning to speak it, then it would be rather hard to avoid putting everything into English since there really wouldn't be any other way to think about the words.

[Coffee Anon !3I4SJbCh8M No.]

>>244144

Both!

Learn the first few hundred the gradeschool way, and you'll learn some of the radicals.
Learn the rest of the radicals as you go along.

[Coffee Anon !3I4SJbCh8M No.]

Also, learn the spoken language first.
When you can speak at a native level, learning the written language is much easier, and helps you to read more naturally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244256
That's just the easy way out, making you no different from all the immigrants who can speak but not read/write.

Having said that, I can barely read. ;_;

[Coffee Anon !3I4SJbCh8M No.]

>>244262
Like I said, don't worry about the reading till you get at least some of the grammar down.
Otherwise, you'll be misreading everything.

If you sound like a Gaijin when talking, you'll seem even more like one when writing. (ok, maybe not as much DES)

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244144
> would it be more beneficial to learn all the radicals (a la "Let's Learn Kanji") or learn them in gradeschool order (a la "Kanji in Mangaland")
IMHO both approaches have their pros and cons. Try both and see which one works better for you. If both are beneficial use both.

> I'd like to do both,
Nothing stops you from doing so.

> and you "know how old you are"
There are many other ways of checking your progress.

>>244197
> Not just Japanese, but any language, you need to be able to think in that language to be truly fluent in it.
You should be able to easily switch between thinking in words "man I gotta catch the bus" and in symbols <bus> <late> <hurry> (no words). May be difficult at first, especially if you never payed attention to this before but not impossible.

> So reading kanji in English isn't a good thing.
No it is not. And guess the proper way to read kanji is to guess their meaning by looking at them first. Whether you decide to attach a sound in your head to that though or not, and what the sound you attach will be is up to you (and your head).

> it would be rather hard to avoid putting everything into English
hard != impossible

> since there really wouldn't be any other way to think about the words.
Like why? I can look at 花 and read it as blümchen or fleur if I want to. Nothing stops me from doing so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244262
>That's just the easy way out, making you no different than the actual Japanese until about a thousand years ago (I think...) when they started sending their scholars to China who brought back dur kanji. LOL HIVE MIND development of the kana (by women?) to eventually allow for written Japanese to actually represent spoken Japanese instead of some awkward scholar language.

Spoken language is primary for communicating with people IRL.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244262
> That's just the easy way out, making you no different from all the immigrants who can speak but not read/write.
You hit the nail on the head lol.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244390

> making you no different than the actual Japanese
We're not japanese, don't forget about that. We don't have natives to talk to in our family and everywhere around us. Learning a foreign language is different from learning your own native tongue from your parents. As a small kid you don't have a choice, as an adult you can do more complex stuff and control the flow of events.

> actually represent spoken Japanese instead of some awkward scholar language.
Don't forget that those who "implemented" kanji had to learn chinese first. OMG were they "disabled" or confused? I don't thinks so (but then again who knows lol).

> Spoken language is primary for communicating with people IRL.
Who said you wanna communicate straight away IRL? With "I R ENGRISH DIS IS THE PEN" skills would you "communicate" with an english speaking person (and make yourself look like an ass) straight away or would you first practice a little? Also looking at symbols is also some form of (one way) communication. Well I guess it is lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244390
I said immigrants, not Japanese you idiot!

[Anonymous No.]

>>244478
Yeah, suppose I'm just trying to justify my own fail.

Kore wa enpitsuna chinchin desu. ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

You know, OPs book surely has some true mastermind behind to easily learn the language.

Especially considering that it's a catalan/spanish guy who's main achievement have been those books and translating Crayon Shin-Chan into spanish (and holding the rights for it) and living in Japan.

Oh, by the way you can actually see him here (the young guy, not the seious-looking one):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ooMlA9OCyXg

[Anonymous No.]

I've reckon i know about 30 kanji already, adn I learned 30 more from Heisig's Remembering the Kanji I, but he says that I need to learn all of the meanings before I should learn the different readings? Correct me if I'm wrong --- but isn't this bullshit? Instead of creating a puzzle that will take about 6 months to complete, isn't it best to work up from foundations, like learning that 中　can be pronounced "chuu" or "naka" and means "centre/middle", instead of learning that it just means MIDDLE (wait a few months until you find out the readings)?

TL;DR --- What is the best Kanji method -- WITH learning readings as you learn meanings?

[Anonymous No.]

>>243169

>> as that sort of information won't be of much aid to you when you're dealing with more complicated characters composed of several radicals;
Once you learn a combination of radicals the new structure becomes a new "symbol". Do you see the 車 as 十 + 田 + 十 or as 車? I see the latter. Memorizing the character as a car (seen from bird's eye) with most parts stolen won't interfere with memorizing that a person who experienced his car being robbed was probably very unfortunate (轗).

I see what you're saying, but 車 isn't a good example, as it's a single pictographic unit in and of itself. I was thinking more of things like 初、被、装、裂、製, which all share a radical based on 衣, meaning robe/clothing. Knowing that 衤 is actually 衣, and 礻 is 示 not only can help with writing both the radicals correctly, but helps you remember in which character to use which. Perhaps a better example still would be 詩、侍、特, or 悟、語、吾.

Ultimately, you'll have to learn how to fit things together yourself, as someone else has said; but all the characters already have accepted explanations for why they're constructed the way they are, and unlike some of the explanations in texts aimed at non-Japanese learners, those explanations do more to "feed into" each other, if that makes any sense -- they give you a greater structural picture of how characters function in relation to each other.

In the end, though, it's a matter of doing what works for you. I'm the sort of person who revels in learning obscure kanji that aren't in current use (like the kanji for many verbs that usually are written only in hiragana currently), so I'm all up for those non-joyo kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>236741
weeaboos cant learn japanese, you should stop

[Anonymous No.]

>>244652
i can't figure out if you're serious or being sarcastic

[Anonymous No.]

>>244770
Your sarcam detector is broken, then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244790

your internal spellchecker is borken.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244917
Yours too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>244946

facepalm.jpg

or ...flipout from triple trump

[Anonymous No.]

>>244917
>borkened?

[Anonymous No.]

>>244999
facepalm.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>>244790
>>244917
>>244946
>>244978
>>244999
>>245012
facepalm.jpg

and of course
>>me
facepalm.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

so maybe this is something i can do myself...
but does anybody know where I can go to get printable flashcards of the gradeschool kanji?

[Anonymous No.]

>>245079
Make your own flashcards, lulz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>237249
CAN'T UNSEE

[Anonymous No.]

>>245223
thats the point lol

>>245208
i was going to, but there's so many readings and everything =/

[Anonymous No.]

>>245079
why don't you do it in this order?
http://davidhallgren.se/nihon/jouyoukanji.asp?Order=Freq

Probably you'd be able to read more in a shorter amount of time that way.

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.speedanki.com/
+ chatting with bored housewives on Mixi seems to be working for me.

Some minor grammar knowledge + RikaiChan, and you're invincible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>245359
Mixi invite plx

[Anonymous No.]

OK, public poll opinion.
Best order:
Frequency,
http://davidhallgren.se/nihon/jouyoukanji.asp?Order=Freq

Grade School
JLPT
Other (please explain)

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244690
> but he says that I need to learn all of the meanings
you can, ie it's recommended, you don't have to

> Correct me if I'm wrong --- but isn't this bullshit?
No. You prolly want to know all the road signs before you start driving however you can start without that knowledge.

> Instead of creating a puzzle that will take about 6 months to complete, isn't it best to work up from foundations, like learning that 中　can be pronounced "chuu" or "naka" and means "centre/middle",
And this way creating a puzzle that will never be complete, or will be left after puzzle number 200. We all know this. It feels like being one of those mexican immigrants who will never be literate in english because they work as cleaners and don't have time to learn or look for a better job (and don't care enough). Btw have you even bothered reading the thread because this was addressed before?

> instead of learning that it just means MIDDLE (wait a few months until you find out the readings)?
Are you in hurry or anything? 6 months is better than forever. Don't like it try something else. Sometimes you have to invest time in whatever you're doing.

> TL;DR --- What is the best Kanji method --
TL;DR: read the fucking thread, amigo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>245784
Other - Stroke number.

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>244697
> Knowing that 衤 is actually 衣, and 礻 is 示 not only can help with writing both the radicals correctly, but helps you remember in which character to use which. Perhaps a better example still would be 詩、侍、特, or 悟、語、吾.
How does the way I presented stop you from doing exactly that? It's an essential part actually.

> all the characters already have accepted explanations for why they're constructed the way they are,
Too bad after thousands of years they don't make sense (except a tiny little fraction like 好 or 休 etc). How would you explain 轗 which I mentioned before? (it's not in 常用漢字 btw).

> and unlike some of the explanations in texts aimed at non-Japanese learners,
I don't know about you but I'm non-japanese.

> those explanations do more to "feed into" each other, if that makes any sense
You basically end up trying to figure out how the hell a few items which have absolutely nothing to do with each other or anything at all mean what they mean.

> they give you a greater structural picture of how characters function in relation to each other.
And using stories doesn't?

[magic_usagi !!kiz/5qGLJ1y No.]

>>245784
Bushu (just because :3)
Heisig
On Reading
Kun Reading
JIS table order (cause why not lol)
A completely randomized list

[Anonymous No.]

>>246368
it's OK...takahashi ai is acceptable in my book, so that picture is qualified

I'm going to work on the bushu at the same time, but now Im torn between JLPT and gradeschool order =(