[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 239 KB, 1600x1200, 1237708848193.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2319274 No.2319274 [Reply] [Original]

/jp/ please tell me EoSD is the hardest Touhou of the main series.

After about two weeks of practice I can get to stage 3 on normal without a single death or bomb usage but I usually have to start using bombs on Meiling's spellcard 12 since the bullets move quickly and randomly. Once I hit Patchy's cards massive failure ensues.

Does anyone have any advice? I've recently tried going through a level without shooting to better study the bullet patternes and fine tune my dodging.

>> No.2319281

Who cares?

Touhou sucks anyway.

>> No.2319286

yah its perety hard

>> No.2319289

I had very similar problems with those stages, just keep going.

>> No.2319296

>Does anyone have any advice?
watch replays
practice more

That's it. There's no such thing as a secret pro advice that magically will get you better.

>> No.2319301

Hold shift for focused movement, stop sucking, shoot it until it dies.

Now that we got these out of the way, in spellcards like Agni Shine I prefer watching out only for the smaller bullets and just "know", or "have an idea" where the bigger ones are going to go. In other words, don't try to dodge two different kinds of bullets at once. Patchy's non-spellcards are just pure streaming, no discussion there.

>> No.2319325

>>2319301
>Hold shift for focused movement, stop sucking, shoot it until it dies.

Yes, I found the magical shift key quite some time ago. But thanks.
Replays are great to watch, but not when the spellcards are complete random bullshit and the player has years of experience on me. Are there at least any strategies, like for example I find that with Sakuya's Lunar Clock moving to the side before she stops time will let you stream the knifes.

>> No.2319414

Going for your first 1CC?

Bombspam.

>> No.2319920
File: 418 KB, 1024x724, a48b81491cad18ce0ddfd0701e95db7a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2319920

UPDATE:
Beat Patchy with four lives left.
Didn't get halfway through stage 5. How the fuck are you supposed to beat Sakuya's time stopping bullshit? I've only got so many bombs to spam.

She remains one of my all-time favorite characters, but holy shit! If there was ever a re-release of this, I pray it will be possible to win with at least one continue.

>> No.2319939

Is there any saves? I don't want to fuck with that few weeks just for Flandre.

>> No.2319943

>>2319920
just move out of the way n completely go around it

>> No.2319974

>>2319920
Sakuya's cards and noncards have tricks that make them much more convenient. Learn them.

Also learn to bomb. Four lives and died on midway Stage 5? What the fuck.

>> No.2319978

Rule #1 for winning at touhou:

NEVER DIE WITH BOMBS LEFT IN STOCK

>> No.2319984

>>2319974
Misdirection always kicks my ass

>> No.2320002

>>2319984

That's Sakuya's easiest card, by far. Just stay underneath her and the red bullets will resolve into lines, and then you just have to stay in the between them and tap up to avoid the knives.

>> No.2320027

>>2319984
General Rule:
When you encounter a barrage for the first time, stay at the bottom and don't move.
Only move a few pixels to the side when a bullet would hit you.
Study the patterns.

That way, you would've never had problems in stage 5.
If you do that, none of the circles the fairies shoot will hit you as you stream them and Misdirection will be a joke.

>> No.2320139

SA is harder.

>> No.2320146

>>2320027

ye cuz the bullets are aimed at you and if u move all over the place, it'll be spread all over the place

>> No.2320176

>>2320139
I agree.
The only hard part about EoSD is that you don't see the hitbox. That makes it hard mostly for new players.

>> No.2320186

>Is there any saves? I don't want to fuck with that few weeks just for Flandre.

From what I've learned you will never be able to skip learning the normal stages if you want to get anywhere in the extra stages.

I still can't much further than stage 5 myself, but practice mode just to watch where bullets come from and go have been helpful.

>> No.2320320

>>2320176
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypCezU_tbJU
Yo, I upgraded your sprites so you could see hitboxes in your touhoues

>> No.2320344

Subterranean Animism has a harder normal play, but EoSD is probably the hardest Extra.

>> No.2320348

>>2320186
Yes, basically if you can't 1cc normal don't even dare to think about flandre. She's really hard.
Try some of the other games, you have no reason to beat them in order. IN normal is pretty tame, especially with the retarded long deathbomb window, PCB is also great for beginners.

>> No.2320414

>>2320348
fuck PCB, if I had started with PCB I would have quit Touhou in just a few days (inb4 anything along the lines of "but that's a good thing"). Extra and Phantasm are easy but fuck the rest of the game.

Anyway, for your trouble with EoSD just keep practicing stage 4 and 5. Patchy (like most stage 4 bosses) tends to be a huge obstacle the first time you run into her, but she's not that bad, especially since EoSD's rank system makes the next spellcard easy if you die (rank makes a huge difference on Mercury Poison). Also the character you're using (which I don't believe you've mentioned) is a huge factor, both for how you play the whole game and also because you get different Patchy spellcards.

Sakuya's midboss nonspell can be beaten by sitting on her head and moving slightly to the side opposite where the knives are shooting (and stay clear when she's about to move, ESPECIALLY at the end of the nonspell if she's low on the screen, because she'll move up immediately). Alternatively you can play it safe and just time it out sitting directly above her and well clear of her sprite. Misdirection as mentioned, is completely aimed shots, move as little as possible. The main problem is hitting her if you aren't using ReimuA. Her 2nd nonspell and Marionette are a total bitch, feel free to bomb away (bomb her 3rd nonspell too if you have spare bombs and don't feel comfortable with it, bomb Lunar Clock if the green knives clump up where you're moving and can't find a gap. Her first nonspell and spellcard you should really be able to beat though.

>> No.2320470

>>2320414
PCB is a lot easier than EoSD.

>> No.2320479

I 1cc'd EoSD a month back. It was hard but nothing like SA.

Anyway, I hear ya OP, the game can be a bitch to beat especially if it is your first one. I'll give you some tips.

If you are aiming for a survival run, bombing is the way to go. But to have enough bombs to clear the game, you will need to master the stages. The library and stage 5 can be quite bothersome if you don't know how to act. For this, go to YouTube or grab some replays and watch the player's patterns. The stages are not hard once you learn them, but only watching won't do any good. Practice the stages until you can reach the boss only bombing twice or so.

Another important thing is not to die with bombs in stock. I can't stress how damn important this is, if you deathbomb or at least bomb in moments you think you will get hit, you are basically having a free one-up. In the whole games you will get around 30 bombs or so, if used well you can reach Remilia easily.

Next is memorize the cards and patterns. This is the hard part because EoSD have lots of random patters, which boils down to pure dodging skill. Again, practice the hell out of them. Finish the game continuing, practice all the bosses and make sure you are ready when you first face Remilia without continuing. This is important, I remember facing the final boss on SA with 6-7 lives in stock. I hadn't had continued and thought regardless of how difficult she was, I would be able to beat it. I was sadly mistaken. Don't do the same mistake.

There is not much else that I can say honestly, but the worse is far from over. When I started Touhou, it took me 4-5 days to 1cc EoSD. After almost one month of playing I reached SA, then it took me 2 weeks of god damn training every day to beat it. Believe me, it is that much harder.

Well, good luck and have fun.

>> No.2320483

>>2320470
says you

>> No.2320518

What is the best character for survival?

>> No.2320544

>>2320518
MarisaA (or whichever was the non-Master Spark one). You'll be beating cards so fast that you dont even need to dodge some of them.

>> No.2320552

>>2320518

Some say ReimuA since you don't need to aim to use her. And indeed it does work, she is especially useful during the stages. But her firepower is weak, meaning you will take longer to beat the bosses. Which in the end, it made ReimuB better for survival for me, since I beat the cards faster which meant less time I had to dodge the patterns.

I can't comment on Marisa, in all the games I was never able to adapt to her faster movement. I guess for beginners this hold true as well, Reimu will be better for dodging. But this varies from person to person, so it might be a good idea to try them out too.

>> No.2320553

Is EoSD the only one with the rank system?

>> No.2320575

>>2320518
Assuming you're talking about EoSD, it's a lot more subjective than any of the other games. Reimu A is probably the best if you don't have the game at least somewhat memorized, but if you're going for a 1cc like that, you're already doing it wrong. Reimu B has nothing particularly good, while both Marisas are great for survival and scoring if you know what you're doing. The difference between them is that Marisa A does more shot damage and can end a lot of cards absurdly quickly (VERY important because this means you can clear a level in less time and thus with a lower rank) while Marisa B has a stronger bomb and can end most spell cards with one bomb.

>> No.2320578

>>2320483
I agree with him though. You get plenty of lives and with SakuyaA 4 bombs per live. As long as you collect at least 800 point items you should be fine.

>>2320553
PCB has rank as well, but I think there is no rank mechanic from IN onwards. Not 100% sure though.

>> No.2320581

>>2320553
Touhou wiki says yes, my personal experience FUCKIN SWEARS NO.

>> No.2320593

>>2320575
rank has nothing to do with how fast you shoot down cards

>> No.2320604

I just tried to beat EoSD again and died 2 times without using a bomb. That's 7 free chances I didn't use. I can sometimes bomb before dying in PCB, but in EoSD, it's impossible.

>> No.2320614

>>2320604
Also, the first time I got to stage five, I used all of my continues, and when I lost I saw that I only used 4 bombs.

>> No.2320616

>>2320604
Knowing how to bomb is as important as knowing how to dodge. You'll get used to it, try to bomb when a gap looks especially difficult.

>> No.2320617

>>2320593
It increases slowly over time. If you clear a card faster, the rank doesn't increase by as much.

>> No.2320622

>>2320604

Don't always depend on deathbomb. Bomb when you can see that you are getting yourself in a tight spot or you aren't sure you can dodge.

>> No.2320640

EoSD Protip: the rank decreases by 16 (out of 32 max) every time you're HIT, not every time you die. Play Marisa B, intentionally run into a bullet at the beginning of any card you know you'll have to bomb, and deathbomb it. Suddenly, the rest of the boss's cards are easy modo.

>> No.2320650

EoSD is easy, you just have to play like this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZu2O_JQ4vs&fmt=22

But seriously, Sakuya's fight is about not freaking out. Usually there's small gaps you can find and the patterns will be simpler if you don't move that much.

Also, bombspam, and only do it when you don't know whether you're going to live or die.

>> No.2320664

>>2320617
as long as you're not dying all the time, your rank will max out anyway though; the main impact is the obvious slowdown immediately after you die

>>2320604
you need to bomb strategically, know the nonspells/spellcards/stage sections that you suck at, and either learn how to beat them or just bomb automatically every time. If it's a situation where it's more like 50/50 if you survive then you just have to use your judgement based on how critical your life situation is.

>>2320575
I almost always use ReimuA, although I've 1cc'ed with ReimuB and MarisaA as well. ReimuA has the 2nd best bomb for damage, especially against bosses. And her shot damage isn't nearly as inferior as it is in PCB; if you spend any significant amount of time not directly under the boss, the homing shots pretty much make up for the lower damage during the time you spend under the boss. MarisaB just plain sucks except for Master Spark, MarisaA and ReimuB are totally superior aside from bombing.

On Normal, Patchy's spellcards seem to be more balanced, but I know that on Lunatic ReimuA has by far the easiest Patchy fight

>> No.2320682

>>2320664
The bullets kill me before I even see them.

>> No.2320686
File: 10 KB, 1024x603, It's not just you!_1238184881468.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2320686

Aww, I decided to watch some EoSD replays but it seems gensokyo.org is dead.
There's always royalflare.net, but I don't know how to use that site.

>> No.2320692

>>2320682
Nevermind that, the problem is probably that I can't reflex bomb while I'm moving for some reason. I also forget how fast I move if I stand still too long, so I can start moving, get hit, then die before I knew what the fuck happened.

>> No.2320694

After figuring out how to dodge Misdirection, it never hits me anymore, but I usually can't hit her either. Does she tend to spend more time in one place, so I can dodge the bullets from there and hit her more?

And any tips for her hard mode version? The bullets come from more directions so I can't just tap the movement keys like in normal.

>> No.2320703

>>2320692
Can't due to hardware or your own level of skill? If the latter, try just doing practice runs on stage 5 or so, flying straight into the first volley of bullets, and trying to death bomb.

>> No.2320720

>>2320703
I move out of the way on reflex, but run into a bullet right next to me. I can't reflex inside of a reflex.

>> No.2320742

>>2320664
>MarisaB sucks
Her damage is almost as good as ReimuB, plus her speed and bombs are better. Her lasers also hit slightly behind her which is good for not dying to random enemies flying into you, Sakuya's midboss nonspell, and Remilia's 2nd nonspell. MarisaA is still superior, but don't associate her with shit like ReimuB.

>>2320686
>I don't know how to use that site.
1) Go to score.royalfare.net
2) pick game
3) pick scoring method with most criteria
4) download highest scoring replays for whatever character you're trying to use
5) ???
6) you already know what goes here

>> No.2320744

>>2320720
Don't worry about deathbombing. That's something that might be useful when you tackle lunatic, but for a normal 1cc just try to bomb in advance. If you know the next spellcard has a 0/21 history, don't waste a live.

>> No.2320752

>>2320686

wut? http://replays.gensokyo.org/ Works for me.

>> No.2320750

>>2320720
Heh. Your reflex is wrong then. Which way do you go to avoid? Typically going away from the bullet is the safest, but will only buy you some time to figure out how you should actually move. Of course, since it doesn't actually save you, I don't know how good of an idea that is.

You shouldn't be reflexively dodging in any single direction, and it sounds like you aren't focusing on the area around you. Learning where to look is as important as where to move.

>> No.2320749

>>2320742
>download highest scoring replays for whatever character you're trying to use
hahaha no
download something in the lower score regions, you probably won't learn shit from someone supergrazing like a maniac.

>> No.2320764

>>2320749
I'd rather find replays somewhere in the middle. What good is watching someone who just bombs through every damn spellcard? I can do that already. What I can't do is capture the damn thing.

>> No.2320772

>>2320742
>>ReimuB
>>shit

What?

>> No.2320782

>>2320764
that's what I meant. Actually the best idea is to specifically ask/search for a survival replay, because score runs revolve around suicidal strategies that won't help your survival at all. Most people on royalflare upload score runs though.

>> No.2320787

>>2320749
>>2320764
>>2320742

How 'bout we all compromise and admit that they could all have some valuable tactics in them, especially for someone bad enough he can't 1cc normal.

>> No.2320841

Seriously, learn to bomb better. That's the best advice anyone can give you.

>> No.2320931

Here's a little no bombs run if you're looking for a replay that's in the middle. Obviously fucked up when hanging out at the top in stage five but there are plenty of runs out there that show how to make it work.

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=2715

>> No.2320947

>>2320782
So what's the advantage of a survival run? Just seeing where to bomb? How hard is it to figure that out yourself?

I just can't capture a lot of spellcards I want to capture. I can 1cc normal, probably could 1cc hard if I seriously went for survival. Most replays I download don't do me any good because they're either survival runs that almost immediately bomb difficult cards, or are supergrazers who use tactics I couldn't possibly repeat. Guess which I'd find more useful.

>> No.2320954

>>2320947
You completely missed my point. I said survival run. Did I say shitty run that ends the game with 0 lives? A survival run is a run where you don't go for score, not a run played shitty.
Here look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmONw-PN-Fk&fmt=22
Is this a score run? I don't think so.

>> No.2321012

>>2320954
No longer available.


I didn't say anything about the number of lives at the end, nor even the quality of the run.
What I mean is that in many replays I see, whenever a player encounters a difficult card, they bomb. They don't try to capture it, they just bomb right through. I usually try to capture difficult cards, even when I have a record of like 0/30.

>> No.2321065

>>2320947
I guess the target of the discussion has obviously changed now, since the OP was asking for help simply beating EoSD

>> No.2321073

>>2321012
The link works for me.
My point is that a survival run may very well capture every card in the game. Obviously I didn't recommend getting replays where every card is bombed.

>> No.2321074

>>2321012
>No longer available.
Learn to use a browser.

>> No.2321085
File: 313 KB, 624x1200, e0576003.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2321085

There aren't enough silly hats in this thread.

>> No.2321102

>>2321085
>There aren't enough shitty hats in this thread.

>> No.2321142

>>2321073
That guy was really good though. Most of the replays I see are of people who just aren't that good. I suppose I should be complaining about that rather than doing survival runs, but I still say that these replays would be more useful (to me, at least) if the person who bombs through every difficult card at least tried to capture it, even if they died after the first wave.

>> No.2321183

>>2321142
That's the difference between a good and a shitty survival run. Shitty score runs are just easier to detect. There's a bunch of good survival run replays on gensokyo.org and the wiki (you'll have to change the urls there since it points to the old wiki), but they're all in lunatic.

>> No.2321209

>>2321142

It takes a *lot* of practice to get a game up to a level where you can beat it on the highest levels without bombing. People who know what they're doing in general but still bomb aren't necessarily bad to study, since unless you're a godly player you're going to be bombing the hard cards too.

>> No.2321214

>>2321183
Since I only seem to be able to find shitty runs, got any tips for spotting good runs?
Lunatic is fine, I suppose, since I'm trying to beat Hard.

>> No.2321220

>>2321214
Look for Kefit, FallenAngelveronica or bjwdestroyer on gensokyo.org.

>> No.2321237

>>2321220
Can't really say Kefit does survival runs, given the guy no-bomb cleared MoF/SA Lunatic an no-focused EoSD Lunatic. Fallenangel is a prime survival run player in that the first goal is "don't die" and everything else are secondary, though. Still gets really high scores because of very good dodging skills (and thus a lot of lives in the end. )

>> No.2321299

>>2321237
Well you, assuming you are the guy that wanted the replays, complained about how the survival runs just bombed everything, so here's the opposite. The strategies used are still useful and I guess you'll learn to bomb scarlet meister or whatever card kills you pretty quick.

>> No.2321311

>>2321299
Nah, I'm not him. Valid point, though, I too find myself looking at topscorers to see any interesting safespots I might have missed (the volley in PCB Stage 2 just before Chen for example can be avoided by tapping left once, picked that one up from GIL. Also got Satori's Border of Wave and Particle safespot from an early SA scorerun. )

>> No.2321330

>>2321311
SA has a bunch of savespots and they are pretty important for scoring, which just sucks. Topscorers wouldn't want to abuse them when they actually lower your score, like in Starbow Break. And ZUN never seems to patch his games sadly.

>> No.2321342

You're not alone. I'm still in the "sucking hard" stage myself.

Meiling's random cards can be a pain, but they get much better with practice. It's mostly about knowing where to look- I find that looking around two to three character heights/widths up and to the sides gives me enough info to effectively dodge, and all the patterned cards are easy if you just stay focused on your character and only inch when something is coming right for you. My last run had me capturing ALL her spellcards.

Patchy is much the same, oddly enough. Many of her cards are just "dirty" patterns, much like Meiling's midboss nonspell. There are safe areas, and there are deadly areas, but the definition between the two is fuzzy and not immediately apparent. You'll have to keep moving, as Patchy's cards don't let you sit still for long before a deadly blob heads your way. If you must, you can timeout Emerald Megalith fairly easily, since the attacks all launch from around Patchy and drop almost straight down. Unfortunately, I can't help with her Metal-based cards, as they're all faster than I can handle- I either die or bomb before I can see if there's a pattern.

>> No.2321343

>>2321342cont


I only learned about hanging out topside for stage 5 this morning, but it does work IF you know when and where the screen fill faeries appear. Snipe one of each pair, and it's easy as cake. Misdirection is really easy once you learn the pattern- sit still in the middle, don't try and follow her, just stay stationary until the red daggers are ALL tossed- they're thrown based on your location, so if you hold still, they'll line up and be easy to dodge. The dagger swarm from the side is exactly the same, just sit until she's done throwing, and move just a smidgen. Left, up, right, down over two waves, and you're right where you started. Don't worry about the timer, you actually want it to run down so you don't have to deal with a huge swarm of "bonus" faeries. Just remember that the entire theme of the stage is "bullshit mind games", and you can pull through with nearly no movement at all.

Also, don't try for a 1cc until you've had a lot more practice. Continue until you're out, as just passing a stage, no matter your continue status, will open it up in practice mode. Practice mode is a godsend (except for stage 4. It's only Patchy that you want to practice, but you still have to do the whole stage every time to reach her. I can nearly sleep through stage 4 by now).

>> No.2321353 [DELETED] 

If you are struggling with anything below hard you have no business playing shooters. And even then, most games' hard is not very.

>> No.2321391

>>2321330
SA scorers never pass their safespots because of delicious free graze. Same with most other safespots unless they're retardedly hard to get down. Starbow Break's a bit of an exception.

>>2321343
Definitely this. It took me... I think about three complete attempts to clear MoF Lunatic. But each stage from Hina onwards was practiced dozens of times beforehand to get a clear idea of what and where to bomb.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action