FGO is killing Nasu and his universe

[Anonymous No.]

Sources:
https://oneofepisodes.wordpress.com/2016/04/18/fgo-tm-ace-042016/
frontlinejp.net/2018/08/15/fate-grand-order-3rd-anniversary-developer-interview-1-2/
https://ff.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/comments/cni2il/fgo_4th_anniversary_famitsu_interview_notes/
https://oneofepisodes.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/translation-4gamer-interview-with-kinoko-nasu-and-yosuke-shiokawa-on-fgo-march-2017-part-1/
https://oneofepisodes.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/translation-4gamer-round-table-discussion-part-1-mafia-kajita-x-kinoko-nasu/

Statement1: Before the game was launched, the scenario up to Chapter 7 had already been completed, but at that point, none of us knew what kind of game FGO was going to be. For mobile games, it’s common sense to think, “No one would read a scenario this huge,” and there were people in the staff who thought that.

Statement2: For a mobile game, we were expecting that players would be skipping the story, and that there’s nothing we could do about that.(...) Actually, up until Chapter 4 I had been supervising the scenario, but I was planning to leave the scenario from Chapter 5 onward to the writers(...). To be honest, from there, I was thinking, “this is a new Fate/ story, so it’s okay even if it no longer feels very ‘Fate/’, right?”

Statement3: Interviewer: So, for the sake of the players who read the entire story up to Chapter 4, you wanted to put in more effort from Chapter 5 onwards?
Nasu: Yes.(..)

Statemant4: At the time FGO was suggested, Nasu actually disliked smartphone games as a genre. He thought it’d be entirely not fun at all if they made one.

Statement5: To be honest, among us in TYPE-MOON, we had a phase where we expected that only 100 thousand core fans would keep playing, and that things would be okay as long as we kept those 100 thousand happy. If I had to put it into words, it was like: “Let us tell the story of some nerds. We’ll be making something fun, and we’ll die together with these 100 thousand people in the TYPE-MOON colony! Garden of Avalon!”

Statemant from Takeuchi: Takeuchi says that FGO was the first game they worked on with no goal, that they work on continuously like a serialisation, and that while the first year was fun, after three years, it is like Nasu said, tiring.

Statement6: First of all, it’s simply a lot of fun. At the same time, I would think, “hey, this would be better if it were done this way” at several places.

Statement7: I saw FGO after its launch as something like a highway left abandoned for ten years. The road is there, but it’s all covered in weeds and the asphalt and tiles are all chipped and cracked. The only reason why the players were still driving cars on it is because of the trust and investment that Fate/ had behind its name. The players put up with it because of the Fate/name.

Statement8: Nasu: Jeanne’s “True Name Discernment” is supposed to be her strongest appeal as a character, so we can’t exactly make it too powerful or completely overhaul it. So within the year, I’d like to see an event where we can go “It’s Jeanne’s turn now! Her ‘True Name Discernment’ is super strong this time!” at least once.

Statement9: With regards to Artoria Lily, Santa Alter, and Emiya Alter, it was Takeuchi’s fault. They were extraneous from a scenario perspective so it wasn’t a writer’s idea. Just Takeuchi going “I want a cute character” and “I want an Alter for Emiya”. For example, the writer’s side wouldn’t suggest an Emiya Alter since an Emiya fallen to evil couldn’t be said to be Emiya. But since Takeuchi wanted it, they rethought the matter and came up with a special case where it could be possible.

[Anonymous No.]

Statement10: Has Nasu ever said no to Takeuchi’s wishes? Nasu: “I reject most of them! I go, “it’s impossible so stop it”. But he won’t listen to me…”


Statement11: Actually, back in 2013, I was writing the scenarios for the Unlimited Blade Works anime, Tsukihime R, and FGO in sync. If everything went as scheduled, Gilgamesh bringing Humanity’s Evils during the anime…with FGO’s climax, and a certain plotline within Tsukihime R would ideally have happened all at the same time. Alas, reality is a harsh mistress… (awkward laugh).

Statement12: First of all, as one of the writers, I write the chapters assigned to me, the interludes and all the voice lines for the Servants I wrote up, and various events that I was assigned to write.

Next, my job as an editor and supervisor is to write the prologue and epilogue for each chapter, as well as the parts of each chapter that are central to the overarching plot. For example, in Part 1, I took charge of directing Roman’s, da Vinci’s, and Mash’s lines, as well as their important scenes. For Part 2, I’m writing the lines for Director Gordolf, child da Vinci, and Sion – the whole base team, basically.

Finally, as director, I’m also in charge of making the overall schedule and suggesting the content of events, as well as edits and adjustments to various game data.

Statement13: If they were to break it down, for the main scenarios the text would be 30% Nasu, 70% other writers, while in events it would be 80% other writers, 20% Nasu. They have to write about 500 kb of text (250,000 letters) every month. The workload when it comes to text is pretty standard for professional work but there are other things they need to do too. As he said in the 3rd anniversary interview, he didn’t think he’d have to work this much. He wants a rest.

Statement14: 4Gamer: By the way, what was your motivation while writing Chapter 7 and the final chapter?

Nasu: Well, it was definitely quite taxing on my stamina. If we also count text that I wrote outside of FGO, I’d already written 1 MB worth of text back in October. I had bags under my eyes and my face must have been unrecognizable. I had to put on a lot of facial cream, and it was only during the New Year when my face went back to normal. But I felt really fired up about writing, so I had a lot of fun.

Statement15: October and November of 2015 might have been the busiest months of my entire life, but I was feeling confident enough to say that “I’m still really young! I can do this!”

Statement16: Nasu: I see… Actually, I was feeling writer’s block around the start of January. No wonder I couldn’t feel motivated at all. Anyone who writes that much would definitely feel exhausted.

Statement17: There’s basically nothing that I left untouched. Fate/Apocrypha and Fate/Prototype: Fragments of Blue and Silver are Higashide’s and Sakurai’s own stories, respectively, so anything they do with those is okay, except for setting mistakes. But FGO is a poster game for TYPE-MOON, so Kinoko Nasu has to put in his word into this scenario. I have to harden my heart and supervise this game.

Statement18: (...)for mobile games, of course there’s a goal, but it feels more like you’re sprinting short distances over and over again. You know where to run next, but you don’t know how far you need to run after that. The only thing you know is that you have to run. Your goals change depending on the situation. And as long as there are players, the sprint will never end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
Tsukihime remake and other projects will never happen no matter how much you hate FGO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
>We wanted this
No
Tsukihime a shit.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh woe is me, I can't break away from the loads of money I'm making to do something else. It's just so exhausting making all this money working on a game owned by me, under a company also owned by me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
Look, if you don't like Bradamante's ass, that's fine, but I'm not letting you take it from me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873475
He can't disappoint a lot of fans and abandon his responsibility as the game creator that easily.
Japanese just aren't selfish like that, or in your words it'd be "dumb honor" or something like that.

[Anonymous No.]

First they came for Fate etc.
Then they came for Touhou etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873507
He's had plenty of opportunities to end the thing without abandoning it. Does he just expect to keep it going forever, ending with honor only when his life does, as is the way of the samurai? If so then he should quit his bitching.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873515
At least ZUN himself won't get personally involved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873619
I hate it how ZUN tries to act all pure and shit, but he probably gets off to doujins where his characters get raped by faceless men.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
What about loli cunny?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873531
He's thinking about his fans and consumer, anon. Empathy and honor is something you can't help if you had it but deep down you want it to end it all once the burden is pilling up on you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873673
I bet he's thinking about the shitloads of money it's making him too. You still haven't explained how this is supposed to end. How Nasu is ever supposed to move on from FGO without disappointing fans. Isn't he disappointing the fans looking forward to Tsukihime R or a Mahoyo sequel anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

Heh, interesting, there's a pattern in his responses.

He first complains about something in a depressing manner.

Then, miliseconds later, he tries to fix it saying he is happy and loving to work hard, like someone oriented him in order to give a good appearance.

Very interesting indeed...

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873716
>You still haven't explained how this is supposed to end
It's hard to decide when someone is torn between pleasing his fans and getting closer to the limit of his writing capabilities.
>Isn't he disappointing the fans looking forward to Tsukihime R or a Mahoyo sequel anyway?
I wonder how many people actually look forward to that compared to the gacha crowd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873818
>I wonder how many people actually look forward to that compared to the gacha crowd.
Apocrypha was even voiced over in brazillian portuguese, a privilege that not even Zero and UBW have.

All my friends love gachas and traps now while shitting on Kara no Kyoukai and Mahoyo for being too dense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873832
>while shitting on Kara no Kyoukai
Holy shit, what a faggotory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
Nasu sold his soul to milk his stuff to death a long time ago. I'd do the same probably so I can't point the finger at him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873818
>I wonder how many people actually look forward to that compared to the gacha crowd.
So he's fine abandoning old fans, the ones to whom he owes all his success, in favor of a larger and infinitely more profitable group of fans. Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not doing this for the money, I'd still say the only person he's afraid of disappointing is himself. It's likely nothing he does after will ever achieve the sheer mindshare that FGO has.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873716
>Isn't he disappointing the fans looking forward to Tsukihime R or a Mahoyo sequel anyway?
I'm one of those guys that just wants him to move on entirely from Tsukihime R and Mahoyo. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago I would have been ok with it, but I have absolutely no confidence that Nasu is capable of creating a quality product anymore; he has shown numerous times throughout the years that he:
1. Doesn't understand his own appeal
2. Dislikes his older works
3. Is willing to throw older works down the toilet for monetary purposes
4. Shows no interest in working on visual novels anymore
With all of this in mind I can't with any confidence come to the conclusion that Nasu will be able to make a satisfying remake at the point, I have theorized for some time now that the remake -- if it ever comes out -- will not be in the traditional visual novel format but likely some sort of release with consoles or the mobile platform in mind. Nasu also keeps talking about how he wants to make more and more gameplay titles, so maybe it will have gameplay elements as well. If it comes out, that is. He's already backtracking on releasing the remake first and then doing a Tsukihime crossover with FGO afterwards -- it would seem that he's heavily implying that there will be Tsuki crossover as soon as next year -- so maybe Tsuki remake will just be melted down into an FGO scenario? Who knows?

In any case, my ultimate point is this: I believe that Nasu is not a capable artist anymore and I would very much like him to move on from his past successes before he dredges them up only to thoroughly degrade them. FGO has already done enough damage to the lore as it is, it would be awful if Mahoyo and Tsukihime were dumped into it as well. Just let them die.
>>21874034
>So he's fine abandoning old fans, the ones to whom he owes all his success, in favor of a larger and infinitely more profitable group of fans
Yeah, but that much has been obvious for years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21874034
>So he's fine abandoning old fans, the ones to whom he owes all his success, in favor of a larger and infinitely more profitable group of fans.
Yeah, I believe that's his grave mistake.
Now he has the responsibility to cater to endless demands of mainstream crowd, or he can decide to "fuck all of you, I'm done" and let the huge empire crumbles along with the citizens.

[Anonymous No.]

It's not just Nasu and his universe, acha games are quite literally the cancer killing otaku culture, and everyone is going to look back on FGO in 30 years as the beginning of the end.
Why make good, creative works when you can use dark patterns to trap lonely nerds into an endless spiral of gambling addiction for infinite money?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
Linking to reddit ahahahaha oh fucking wow this guy

[Anonymous No.]

>>21874131
Pretty much
Gacha is the great cancer of Japan and Nasu is just a cog in that machine

[Anonymous No.]

What is even the point of the Tsukihime remake when you won't get to fuck Ciel in the ass?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873658
More like when his loli characters brutally rape the shit out of poor innocent men.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21874993
Nice

[Anonymous No.]

What more could you milk out of the tsukihime story?

aside from arcueid's tits

[Anonymous No.]

>>21875358
Tsukihime 2 draft was cool shit
Imagine fighting all 27 DAA

[Anonymous No.]

>>21874131
>and everyone is going to look back on FGO in 30 years as the beginning of the end.

FGO didnt invent gacha, Japs have been gambling addicts by nature with the even bigger pachinko industry

[Anonymous No.]

>>21875469
The true evil is combining gambling and smartphone, two biggest source of addiction. That is modern gacha games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21875469
Well, yes, but whereas old gachapon would reward you with physical items, items which had to be manufactured and paid for, they now reward you with low quality digital images which are compartively a lot less costly to make. Profit margins in electronic gacha are likely huge, especially given how low quality the assets are. FGO has bad servers, bad animations, bad gameplay, etc. etc. they probably spend so little money on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21875381
I want Altrouge, the hotter sister.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21873377
Based

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877589
That's not Altrouge. It's a character from someother franchise Takeuchi drew for an event.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877894
Well I should have known. This is just like summer event CM where people thought booby saber was arcueid.

My lack of Tsukihime is making me esquizofrenic.

[Anonymous No.]

I thought I heard that FGO's part one or something was coming to an end soon, and that after that Nasu would work on other stuff. Is this true?
I've never touched FGO but going from Mahoyo and CCC in the span of a year to absolutely fucking nothing for over 6 years because of some phone game is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877972
Nasu said he was going to be done with fate after Extra.
Then he made CCC and promised it would be his last Fate work.
Then he started writting for GO.
Now he promises he will be done with GO (not even with Fate) everytime some jap neckbeard calls him a hack on twitter.
Never believe Nasu

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878010
Surely the worst track record ever.

It is like the "tomorrow I'll start a diet"

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877972
It was easily negated by the last interview where he said "I am writing 2 endings, one to finish FGO and thr second for a FGO2". Go read Naku Koro ni at least the author continues his works.

He is even publishing them in english officially starting with Ciconia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877972
DDD is in hiatus sinxe 2004, one side story notwitstanding

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878059
Wasnt fate released in 2004

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878080
Yes and >>21878059 is wrong.
DDD vol 1 is from 2004 and vol 2 from 2007.
So it's just 12 years years of waiting instead of 15 years

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878059
It's been a really long time and I have forgotten.
Is DDD share the same universe/alt.universe with Fate, Tsukihime and the rest of Type-Moon (with Mage Association, Church and shit)

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878177
No they don't. DDD just has like a cameo, which is as virtual as Touko playing pokemon with aoko and her as sprites on a game boy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878177
DDD is it's own universe entirely and not part of the nasu multiverse

[Anonymous No.]

>>21878052
>>21877972
He always hinted a NEW GAME in that interview (it even trended). Now he considers continuing FGO depending on the "Players choice" which is bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21879683
Unless Nasu decides to do a DDD collab with fgo

[Anonymous No.]

>>21879744
Well, he kinda wanted to make FGO with player choices like his old VNs.

...we just didn't realize before that it would be crowdbased choices.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21877894
which one? the big boorus either have no character tag on this pic or they have her tagged as altrouge

[Anonymous No.]

>>21880329
Not him, but Takeuchi illustrated a book about the history of maids in Japan. It's an OC that appears in the cover.
I'm surprised people took her for Altrouge. If nothing else I'm surprised you people think Takeuchi even remembers her.
What's next, some anon trying to pass off Vampire Wars characters as other obscure Nasu characters?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881194
>I'm surprised people took her for Altrouge.
Arr rook same. Takeuchi only draws one character.

[Anonymous No.]

To be quite honest, FGO fans aren't true Fate fans and never were. Any average TM fan would notice that FGO contradicts with established Fate lore to the level of being not canon. Yes, fanfic tier time traveling bullshit, like it was intended to be when it came out as a short battle royale game to have some fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881264
>Any average TM fan would notice that FGO contradicts with established Fate lore to the level of being not canon.
That's what I tried to believe until words spread around that it is indeed canon and bunch of important lore dump written by Nasu himself (like The Round Table) are poured into FGO, despite the fact that it is now mishmashed with other writers as well. That's when I finally realized that TM is beyond repair.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a full list of FGO lore fuckups?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881332
Time traveling without True Magic
Alter servants without corrupted Grail
XX century servants just because
Gods as servants
Gaya creatures as servants
Just random Typemoon characters as servants, without even being counter guards
Enough?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881397
It's like "Which Servant would you summon on HGW?" thread on /a/ actually become canon, and the worst thing is at least they were trying to be more consistent with the lore than FGO staff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881472
Yes, exactly how I feel about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881397
Modern modern servants being just super string because they need to sell waifus.
Florence Nightingale (a nurse) is somehow stronger than Cuchulainn baka

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881472
This. So much old Fate lore got retconned that it's like they just spat in the face of the old works. No amount of "Zelrecht/Merlin" did it can explain this faggotry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881254
Do they really?
The only things, looks wise, that are know about Altrouge is that her colourscheme is black, that she looks like a loli and that she has a serious face/form.
Fanon has her looking like goth!blackhair!loli!Arcueid with her other form being goth!blackhair!Arcueid.
Afaik, we don't even know of she looks older in her other form.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21875381
You wll take your Rita Rozay-en, Tatari, Blackmore and Van-Fem mentions in Fate works and you will lke it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21883782
>Tatari
If I want Wally I'll just play Melty Blood, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881332
I'm not terribly familiar with Fate lore--I read the original light novel till my computer bricked halfway through the Fate route, but isn't the concept of any master having more than one (or a few at best) servant already a massive lore rape?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881332
I'm not terribly familiar with Fate lore--I read the original VN till my computer bricked halfway through the Fate route, but isn't the concept of any master having more than one (or a few at best) servant already a massive lore rape?

[Anonymous No.]

>>21885043
FGO, for the sake of the game mechanics, created a device that pretty much can bend reality and touch the source of heroes at will (which is equivalent of burning your money for it).

FSN had rules set and there was not to have any other grail war because the grail is destroyed in the end.

FGO broke that for the sake of money by creating more grails out of nowhere.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21885109
I just love it when my favorite visual novels get retroactively spat on for the sake of profit

[Anonymous No.]

FGO is shit
SHIIIIIT

[Anonymous No.]

It's a shame Dullahan is such a prick cause he was basically right about everything

[Anonymous No.]

>>21881397
I read the VN ages ago. Can you explain how these things actually fucked uo the lore?
>Alter servants without corrupted Grail
Did they ever say that it was the only way?
>XX century servants just because
Gods as servants
>Gaya creatures as servants
>Just random Typemoon characters as servants, without even being counter guards
In Extra an ill child was a servant, so I don't get what's the problem here

[Anonymous No.]

I like FGO because its existence makes me have much easier time to differentiate people who I should stay away in cons or local weeb communities lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>21886162
xD

[Anonymous No.]

>>21886411
:D

[Anonymous No.]

>>21886042
>In Extra an ill child was a servant
Nursery Rhyme? She's less a child and more a living Reality Marble or something. I haven't played Extra for some time but she's the only child servant I remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21886042
Extra was happening on the moon with completely different mechanics and rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>21886553
You can pretty much say the same for each HGW, FGO is 100% canon and does not retcon anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2188676 The alter version and avenger class were retcons as those were specific cases of Fuyuki HGW. Actually, if you read Hollow Ataraxia, you will discover that Avenger is not even a formal class and that Angra is just a broken berserker. Oh and the loop skill is also external to Angra, him having it on FGO is bullshit.

Tsukihime and Fate were the same timeline or at least it was possible for them to be the same timeline. This was retconed HARD by the idea of Human Order and the events of Dantes in the Drama where he kills Roa to the point of deleting his soul (thus making Tsukihime 100% impossible in Fate timelines).

Chaldea created devices that have more abusiveness than Fifth Magic (which the Void Counter Force appears with Aoko just thinking in using it) and the Void does nothing. Actually it even participates as a servant and say things that makes you think it wants the D.

Everything that happens in Extra happens inside a virutal reality supported by a quantic processor computer on the moon in a specific timeline where the world is fucked up, which was to be the last Fate work with CCC. FGO existing and making CCC relevant again is already a retcon by itself.

And read the OP source, there are lots of time where Takeuchi forces cute characters and genderbend where it it not possible, and it happens anyway because nasu is a fag who can't retaliate.

[Anonymous No.]

Also, Carmilla in the latest summer event said that her strong feelings of being better than bathory affected her saint graph to be a summer servant.

So you have a potential retcon for each servant based on how they feel. Like transplot where DW makes the operation.