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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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2169105 No.2169105 [Reply] [Original]

You know what really bugs me the most about FS/N?

The illogical fact that Heroic spirits can be nabbed from the future as well as the past. It's implausible, mostly, becuase if it were true, everyone would have future servants, as the future is infinite and the past is not.

Except for the fact that everyone is a pussy and picks their servant.

>> No.2169121
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2169121

>> No.2169115

>>2169105
note that the future doesn't exist yet, which will be a problem considering how noble phantasms work and all.

>> No.2169129

Explain to me how you can obtain a catalyst from the future

Without time travel, obviously

>> No.2169133

>illogical

Welcome to Nasuville.

Population: The Mindfucked

>> No.2169134

it requires an item that is connected to the hero.

>> No.2169144

>>2169129
Random pick.

I think that's what happens when you attempt a summon without a catalyst.

Rin mentions "Drawing the best card" and all, implying its random.

Also Archer.

>> No.2169147

You're assuming that there will be humans in the future which might as well just not be the case.
According to our current knowledge time isn't truly infinite so it's not one of those probability games either.

>> No.2169151

>>2169105
1. No catalysts for Servants.
2. Heroes in the modern age are scarce.

Since people rely on technology much, even with great skill, they are weapons or abilities anyone can use.
And all the mages now use a science that takes advantage of things like prana and mana, doing shit science can replicate.

Plus, there is a point in the feature where everyone and everything dies (confirmed), so no infinity.

>> No.2169153

>>2169144
You are an idiot. Rin used a catalyst.

>> No.2169163

Did you miss the part where Rin said the person must exist in the present?

>> No.2169166

>>2169153
...Without her knowledge though(her pendant acted as one).

>> No.2169180
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2169180

>>2169153
>>2169151


It seems I have erred.

>> No.2169181

>>2169147

How can we assume that time will just 'cease'?

>> No.2169184

>>2169166
She used the pendant intentionally since she needed a catalyst and it apparently was the most ancient looking jewel or something. Did you skip the prologue?

>> No.2169189

>>2169181
WITH SCIENCE!

>> No.2169190

>>2169184
She just went "Damn, I need something old." and picked up the jewel? I thought she used it because of GENERATIONS OF MANA.

>> No.2169193

>>2169181
Well, humans and most beings around are destined to die in at least 3 different ways (one being the Program of 6th that Wallachia wanted to prevent).
If there is an end of all life or something to THAT effect...

Also, by stupid physics, there is a point where a universe pretty much become entropy, then mass is concentrated, then Bing Bang etc

>> No.2169198

>>2169184
She kept the pendant on her because of how much prana was stored in it. She hoped that it would allow her to summon Saber, "the strongest class" even without anything tied to a specific spirit.

>> No.2169209

>>2169184
Wrong.

>>2169190
Right. She used it because it had shitloads of mana in it. But we're looking at two definitions of catalyst here; one is where she has it with her because it's a high-quality gem, and will help her summon her servant, and the other is where she ACCIDENTALLY used it as a catalyst in deciding which servant she got.

>> No.2169215

The farther you go into the future, the less significant the actions of individual humans become as more and more things become possible. Thus, you're not going to become a hero unless you make a contract with the world to become one.

>> No.2169220

>>2169181

Because Crimson Moon comes back in the year 3000 and eats everyone.

And even if he doesn't, Angel Notes shows us that humanity is already basically dead by that point.

>> No.2169225

>>2169215
And it's not like the world hands out contracts willy-nilly. Fuck, I need a sandwich. WORLD!

>> No.2169227

>>2169209
Ah I see what you mean now, still, since the possibility of a heroic spirit emerging in the near future is very small, most servants are all from the past.

>> No.2169236

Robert Heinlein already wrote all the good time-travel stories, and they were all predestination paradox stories not grandfather paradox stories. Predestination paradox is not acceptable in games, and grandfather paradox is just fucking stupid. Therefore I ignore all the time-travel in the Nasuverse, because it's obviously added with no thought for the consequences just to appeal to the type of idiot who hangs out in /a/.

>> No.2169255

>>2169193
where can I read about Wallachia and the Program of 6th

>> No.2169271

The Throne of Heroes exists in Akasha, which exists outside time.

>> No.2169351

>>2169105

Its because Archer isnt a true servant. The servant summoning only borrows from existing hero records stored in the throne of heros and summons them. Archer is a guardian, who, can be summoned into any age, from any age, in order to stop disasters and kill a few to save the many. As Rin used the jewel she and Archer posessed, he was wrongly summoned as a servant. That is why his summoning was so rough in contrast to Sabers summoning, which was relatively quick and simple.

>> No.2171034

Rin had a connection to Shirou. Period. Case closed. Trolls can go home.

>> No.2171046

>as the future is infinite

No it isn't.

Earth dies at some point in the future and the Throne of Heroes gets lost forever.

Angel Notes, bro.

>> No.2171053

>>2169163
>Did you miss the part where Rin said the person must exist in the present?
>Did you miss the part where Rin said the person must exist in the present?
>Did you miss the part where Rin said the person must exist in the present?

>> No.2171055

>>2169271

But it IS tied to Gaia's soul.

Gaia dies, Akasha vanishes.

>> No.2171073

>>2169193
>>2169255

The Sixth is the end of the entire fuckdamn universe, not just Earth.

>> No.2171078

>>2171053
I don't remember that part in particular, but I'm sure it was somewhere in one of her many tl;dr explanations. Rin doesn't know everything, she was probably just wrong.

>> No.2171085

You can't have a beginning without an end, so if the future is infinite, the past is too.

>> No.2171087

>>2171078
>Rin doesn't know everything
>she was probably just wrong.
Those two aren't the same you know.

>> No.2171088

In Realta Nua end, one day the Throne of Heroes will disappear and all the heroes will be liberated

>> No.2171092

>>2171085

Earth doesn't gain INFINITY BOTH WAYS until Type-Earth is created.

And apparently that never happens as Gaia dies before it comes to be (or it might be killed by humanity [and so kill Gaia] or some other speculation).

>> No.2171093

ITT: Faggot's Lair

>> No.2171096

>Angel Notes and Types being mentioned

in before ORT and powerlevels

I'm going to bed before that happens

>> No.2171112

>>2171088

Realta Nua end applies to only Shirou and Saber, so no.

And it was an accumulation of a dimension-crossed miracle of love that brought them together.

>> No.2171120

>>2171112
Explain

>> No.2171140

The future thing was just a plot device to summon EMIYA anyway. It's stated that people can't become heroes in modern times anymore.
Stop trying to make everything seem logical like it was a sandbox simulation, it's a fucking japanese story based on plot devices.

>> No.2171145

>>2171120

http://nrvnqsr.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=walk&action=display&thread=3342&page=1#10
8171

>> No.2171148

>>2171140
With your description, everyone and everything is a plot device.
It's HARD to become one, since gods don't just come to support you, nor are demonic/holy swords around to wield.
Actively becoming one is still not impossible. Just something most people would also NOY try to do, cause it's hard/stupid/meaningless in the modern world. Basic part of the story.
Simple as that.

>> No.2171159

>>2171148
>It's HARD to become one
>Actively becoming one is still not impossible.

Except Nasu said it was impossible, that is why EMIYA is a Counter Guardian instead of a proper Heroic Spirit.
Stop trying to bend things so it fits what you want it to be.

>> No.2171164

>>2171159
Counter Guarding and Heroic Spirits are not EXCLUSIVE of one-another, fucktard.

Counter Guarding is a JOB. He was drafted to it due to contract.
Heroic Spirit is a STATUS (usually granted to you by the people's will). He gained that since he achieved a miracle.

>> No.2171215

It seemed to me that in the F/SN world, history has power: Servants appear to be scaled in power depending on how historically renown they are; Shiro often talks about replicating the accumulated years of a weapon when tracing.

Going by that logic, servants from the future would be considerably weaker since they haven't left their mark upon history yet in the time they're called to. This also explains why more ancient heroes are sought after.

>> No.2171224

>>2171164
who said they are exclusive? You might want to focus on the meaning of the word 'proper'.
From fuyuki:
>Guardians - The Guardians of Alaya, aka, Counter Guardians. Heroes with little reverence or no divinity.
My point still stands

>> No.2171235

>>2171224
Little REVERENCE or divinity doesn't mean they are NOT heroes.
He is still Heroic Spirit Emiya, even if he was NOT well know or had no divine protection.
He achieved becoming a hero in the modern age and ruined his fucking life and afterlife in the process.
Arguing semantics or bringing up points that do not really prove anything doesn't help.
F/SN simply states so in your face.

>> No.2171240

>>2171215

This is the truth.

For scaling...

Humans are weak.
Archer is a weak Servant, as Servants go.
Vampires (~1-3 centuries) are strong.
Hercules is powerful.
Dead Apostle Ancestors (most >1000) are immensely powerful.
Gilgamesh is tremendously powerful. (The real Servant Gilgamesh, not that Grail-corrupted faggot.)
Primate Murder is nearly unstoppable.
Aristoteles are the strongest things in the universe.

>> No.2171241

>>2171215
>Servants appear to be scaled in power depending on how historically renown they are

Barack Obama confirmed for strongest servant in 2012.

>> No.2171255

HOW IS SERVVANT FORMED? HOW HERO GET BARN

>> No.2171282

You are now imagining Ado Edem summoned as a Saber.

>> No.2171292

>>2171282

Became a hero after Gaia died -- not in the Throne.

>> No.2171304

>>2171235
I'm not saying he isn't a hero just that he isn't a proper one like those in the past. He cheated, if you will. Read the fucking posts you you

>> No.2171315

>>2171304
A lot of heroes cheated in the past

>> No.2171321

>>2171292
Throne of Heroes is based in Akasha, not Gaia, dumbass.

>> No.2171318

>>2171304
Your definition of 'cheating' is eird.
World granting you powers to perform a miracle is no less cheap then gods making you nigh-immortal and giving you scared armaments.
I'm just saying you missed the point and spout bullshit, regardless of what posts above might say.

>> No.2171338

>>2171321
U sure about that bro?

>> No.2171352

>>2171321

So why the fuck do we not summon heroes from other planets?

>> No.2171356

>>2171352
SUMMONING ORT AS BERZERKER NOW
USING /jp/ AS A CATALYST

>> No.2171358

>>2171352
Whoever said that's impossible? Maybe they could be if they fit the heroic spirits definition.

>> No.2171952

I thought Throne of Heroes is based in Alaya

>> No.2171978

>>2171315
>A lot of heroes cheated in the past

Heroes became heroic spirits by going against fate with their own strength, as far as I know the only ones who made a deal with the planet beforehand are Saber and EMIYA

>> No.2172008

>>2171978
Gods and otherwordly forces empowering you is not exactly 'own' strength and common in MANY heroes.

>> No.2172011

I check this thread out because OP uses cute Saber pics.

>> No.2172016

>>2172011
Thats about half the reason I even come to this board

>> No.2172026
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2172026

>>2172016
Her cuteness is a miracle of the universe.

>> No.2172046

>>2172008
In the Nasuverse Gods are spirits created by the wishes of humanity, not completely "otherworldly"

>> No.2172048

the future isn't infinite

there's no way to know that

>> No.2172060
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>>2172026

>> No.2172162

>>2171978
Saber became a hero by her own power. She just had to make a deal with the world anyway because she wanted the Holy Grail.

>> No.2172291

>>2171145
>>2171148
>>2171159
>>2171164
>>2171215
>>2171224
>>2171235
>>2171240

In after Faggot's Lair Invasion of /jp/

>>
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