/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Hey Kouji, wanna make a friend?

[Anonymous No.]

He was a fine specimen of a man. In fact, I'd go as far to say that I'd go gay for most of Nitroplus's males.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111079
I saw a Saya no Uta yaoi doujin somehwere years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

what im confused is saya girl or boy what

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111124
You're clearly not a very bright one. I suggest you try enlighten yourself on your own instead of making a fool out of yourself by asking such stupid questions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111124

Neither. A Lovecraftian horror who can reproduce, but is not female.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111139
god what?!! i cant take this anymore im so confused

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111134
dude wikipedia says it's a girl so what i dont know !!! youre such a jerk!~!! god!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111124

Saya is some sort of Lovercraftian horror sent from another dimension to take over earth. Whilst to certain insane people she appears to be a little girl (and considers herself to be a young woman), to most people she is a mind shattering mass of tentacles. Kouji is not one of those insane people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111142

She's a girl in as much as she's a cum dumpster.

[Anonymous No.]

You go through the game, slowly coming to love Saya. The whole point is to be able to break that, otherwise you fuck over the whole world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111165

I thought the writers were fucking clever with that as well. If you look at how the CGs are ordered in the gallery, they predict the order of endings you will choose. (Kouji calls Ryoko, Kouji calls Fuminori, Fuminori returns to normal). They got it right for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111079
Kouji was fucking awesome. He was truly a great friend.

[Anonymous No.]

There would be great potential for a sequal based on Kouji's end with him as some sort of investigator into the mysteries of the world, still conversing with the ghosts of his previous life. Use the PoV of various outsiders and innocents and have him take the place of the seasoned veteran.

You know it would be awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111226

I brofisted my moniter when he started his lead pipe fight.

[Anonymous No.]

is it wrong that I disliked saya the entire game?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111316
Yes, very

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111316
yeah it is really. I suggest you kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111316
I can understand disliking Fuminori.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111316

No. She had no regard for life other than hers and Fuminori. Second most unlikeable character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111316
Saya was innocent you fuckwit. You might fear her and want to stop her, but you can't hate her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111333
Fuminori, Kouji's girlfriend, Yoh, that prissy artist next door...

Don't you mean 4th least likeable character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111349

Can't count, 5th.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111342

Yes I can. She isn't innocent, she's unable to feel empathy with other people aside from a potential breeding partner. Considering she turned another girl into a slave and raped her, I'd love to see how that counts as being innocent. She also didn't care that the artist just killed his own family from her specific activity. If you consider her innocent, then I'd love to know what you think of someone like Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111361

Uneducated children are often similar, unable to empathise properly with anyone that they do not know well. My cousin, usually quite a sensitive young boy, started laughing at a car crash we had seen. When I told him that it was painful for those involved he said "Why does it matter, we don't know them". That was about 7 years ago now, and he's a much nicer person than me now. You can't judge him by his thoughts as a child, and had you given him power to cause such a crash he may wel have done. Saya is just the same.

[MC AKIO !E/92PfPMmo No.]

colored by yours truly about a month ago

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111631
I'm not going to lie, that's a really shitty coloring job. Why would you want to call atten-
>MC AKIO !E/92PfPMmo
Oh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111269

Ugh, great. Is that like, some mindfuck spoiler that I just read about my unplayed VN? Fucking great.

[MC AKIO !E/92PfPMmo No.]

>>2111646
I LOVE CALLING ATTENTION TO MAHSELVE DAWG NIGGA

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111705
Get out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111621

I don't think it's fair to associate "innocent" with "willing to perform cruel acts on another human being." It could have been that he was socialized in such a way that he found it funny, rather than it being an innate humor in suffering. Think of how slapstick cartoons are, many featuring explosions and grand violence, albeit with mild results.

I'd also say that people, generally, do feel some sort of empathy towards others, even at a young age. Sure, she might not have felt much for a girl who still had feeling for her lover, but she should have atleast felt bad for the death of a human child by her own parent.

More over, to say "it's a child, he doesn't know better" is fine in some circumstances, for a creature like Saya to tamper with the very minds and souls of others isn't something to shrug it off as "she doesn't know better." While it can largely be blamed that Fuminori caused her to disregard the life of others through their socialization, she should still be held accountable for the half-a-dozen lives she's caused to die. By the near end of the series, she clearly has no regard to any other life than hers, fuminori's, and maybe the doctor. "Innocence" can only carry a character so far until they happily talk about murder and how to kill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111723

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111723
No dude, you don't understand. No one ever taught her about morals or anything. She doesn't get that anything she is doing is in anyway wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111684
Uh... no?

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111684

Not really, all it tells you is that Kouji survives in one route not that Yoh is killed by Kouji, Ryoko by Fuminori, Saya by Ryoko and Fuminori kills himself. Still should have used spoiler tags though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111723

She can tamper with your soul as easily as a child can play with lego blocks. Having never had any real moral interaction, as well as being innately inhuman, it is unreasonably to expect her to empathise as she has always been disconnected from others.

When scolded by Fumi for warping the minds of mental patients she acted like a small child and promised not to repeat that action, only instead of linking why what she had done as being wrong because it hurt people her linked it soley to himself (you should spend more time with me or some shit).

Therefore her morals of course developed in a way that was centred only on the people she knew.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111747
Someone should tell her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111784

I'd give her a moral education if you know what I mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111747
>>She doesn't get that anything she is doing is in anyway wrong.

Then she's a monster who's only saving grace is she appears as a cute girl. I don't see the harm in calling her out on such.

>>2111781

I'm not expecting her to be empathetic, but I don't believe she should be considered innocent of her actions on the grounds that she can't empathize with others or wasn't taught morals. While it may have been considered a form of self defense in not wanting anyone to find out about her and Fuminori for the first kill and she wanted to help Fuminori for the second, warping the mind of Yoh into a sex slave, despite as mentioned being told not to do that sort of thing before, shows downright sadism, which is never considered natural or innocent. Not just that act, but the way she treats her then on. Sure, a lot of kids might grow up playing war with their G.I. Joes, but when they start to pretend they are torturing the other soldiers for enjoyment then there clearly is something deeply wrong which I consider passes out of the "innocent" phase. Sure, it might not have been her fault that she wound up like that, but given her circumstances there is absolutely no way for her to ever change into an empathetic being.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111882

>Then she's a monster who's only saving grace is she appears as a cute girl. I don't see the harm in calling her out on such.

Calling her a monster implies a lack of self-awareness. Even if she appeared to be a mass of writhing tentacles it would not change her personality, only our ability to perceive it. Her emotional understanding is one that is in developement and her guardians have failed her; look at how Fuminori treats other people just because of how they look, even though he knows that they're no different to before. We could debate about where we can start attributing blame and where the responsibility for her actions falls, but asked the question "Does she have the capability to understand the significanse of others' emotions" the answer must be no.

Whether she is innocent or not depends on whether she is able to fully understand her actions on an emotional level. Human children struggle with that, and it is tempting to say that because of her vast intellect that she should be equally capable. However as an alien she cannot be expected to understand her place in society, and how she should relate to others, she understands very fully that she is seperate to us. Indeed given our naturally tendancy to treat the outsider like a monster (and most people's reactions to her) it should not be surprising that the only things she is able to anchor herself to is the deranged mind of Fuminori. Given a proper environment she could perhaps do good things. In the one she was given she did bad things. That variability according to environment is innocence. Remember that innocence is easily persuaded to do just about anything, and that what we view as "evil" is merely an abscence of certain values.

>despite as mentioned being told not to do that sort of thing before, shows downright sadism,

Because children never disobey their parents and do cruel things. Ever.

I suspect you don't know children very well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2111977

I do agree that the environment has shaped her to act the way she does. However, judging by her not having the ability to understand the significance of others emotions and being unable to change into a creature capable of performing good actions, I don't think it's safe to consider her anything less than a natural threat. What if she was still alive after twenty more years and was no longer a child, would she still be considered innocent after killing even more people? There was no way for her to change in the story, her path is that of becoming a sadistic creature that not only won't function in our society, but will be violently against it.

A creature that is unable to live in harmony without conflict within a society, unable to change its destiny, and doomed to commit very foul actions that would kill others is something that I would consider to be a monster even if it is tragic, regardless of being human or not. Killing another living creature that clearly possesses the ability and desire to kill others of my own society is nothing I would feel remorse over, considering it would do just the same to me. Moreover, I would be quite pleased with myself if she had done those acts to my own friends or family.

>>Because children never disobey their parents and do cruel things. Ever.

I don't mean to say that they never do that, but there's a fairly large difference between the cruel things most children do and what Saya did. If any human child did what she has done to an animal, like say a dog or a cat, it would most definitely be considered psychotic.

[Anonymous No.]

Kabuto Kouji dies in magma.

That is all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112128
That didn't happen at all in this episode!

[Anonymous No.]

The way I see it, Saya isn't completely 'pure' nor sadistic. She's an anomaly in her species that acted the way she did because she was raised as a human (well, in a way) but still followed her instinct.

If an animal kills another animal, it doesn't mean they've done any wrong, it's just instinct to do so and nothing can be done about it unless they grow up in a different environment. Even then, there's still the chance they may attack whatever raised them - out of instinct.

Saya could be considered a similar case. She ends up with a warped point of view because her instinct clashes with whatever human ideals she was taught about and took on herself.

It's when she meets Fuminori when her instinct becomes confused with her concept of love. From there, it's really depends on the reader on how they see Saya: either as a benign being going about her business, or a malignant monstrosity hell bent on taking over universes.

Personally, she's somewhere in the middle for me. While I can't call her evil for following the basic hard wiring her species has, she's also a sadistic creature that will do anything for Fuminori.

[Anonymous No.]

You guys are somehow simultaneously overcomplicating and oversimplifying the case.

Saya is a member of a sentient species that eats humans as a part of its nature, that has fallen in love with a human. That's it.

[Anonymous No.]

Just stumbled on this thread and might I say, it's a fairly interesting and involved discussion compared to the normal crap on /jp/

>>2112101

>there's a fairly large difference between the cruel things most children do and what Saya did.
At least partly that difference is down to the difference in power. It takes a lot of premeditation and effort for a child to hurt a dog in a serious way and the dogs that they know are usually considered family. What Saya did is far closer to a child stepping on ants.

>>2112222

That is another interesting interperative perspective, the conflict between instinct and the individual, although I would differentiate her instinct from her environment more. However one issue raised is how similar Saya's instincts are to our own and therefore could one not argue that this alone should allow her no favour.

>It's when she meets Fuminori when her instinct becomes confused with her concept of love

Do you think so? I thought that the reason she had not attempted to fufill her genetic imperitive beforehand was because of the lack of a romantic partner, and that Fuminori was simply the first person to respond positively to her, other than her father figure (it's a good thing she never read any incest manga).

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112323
>However one issue raised is how similar Saya's instincts are to our own and therefore could one not argue that this alone should allow her no favour.

Yeah. That's where interpretation, morals and how the reader feels about Saya really come in. She was still killing people out of instinct, but her acts of sadism were human.

>I thought that the reason she had not attempted to fufill her genetic imperitive beforehand was because of the lack of a romantic partner

Actually, I suppose you're right in that regard. She obviously had a huge opportunity in harvesting genes while she was hiding in the hospital, but I felt that she didn't bother because the easy targets were all sick and eating them would make matters difficult. The fact she was 'playing' with the patients supports both of our ideas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112323
>>At least partly that difference is down to the difference in power. It takes a lot of premeditation and effort for a child to hurt a dog in a serious way and the dogs that they know are usually considered family. What Saya did is far closer to a child stepping on ants.

Thinking in terms of power, yes, but the acts and the intents are completely different. Saya saw people as a means to an end, which according to Immanuel Kant would in itself be considered an immoral act. She killed people to hide herself and fuminori or to eat (in the case of Kouji's girlfriend), caused the artist and his family to die in order to test her abilities to help fuminori, and she broke Yoh out of jealousy/revenge and reveled in the sadistic pleasure in fulfilling that. These kinds of things are completely out of the intent and feelings an average child goes through if they step on an ant.

Of course, I do realize that Kant's works are meant to be applied towards humans and not, say animals, but considering Saya is self-aware and possesses many common human emotions and thoughts, I think it's fair enough.

[Anonymous No.]

the way i see it the author tries to show how fuminori became more and more inhuman and how saya become more human

also post more pics i wanna make a saya folder

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112683

There is no one way to see it, everything posted has been a perfectly valid interpretation of the VN (dare I say just, novel?)

>the way i see it the author tries to show how fuminori became more and more inhuman and how saya become more human

That is certainly a theme that appears very strongly. Take the scene where Fuminori lures Kouji back to his new house, but it defeated by Ryoko and Kouji together for example. How much more human does Saya seem in that scene, even when described only as a horrible creature? It appears to be Fuminori who is the truly callous one.

In fact I would say the pivotal scene is the one where Saya kills Omi or perhaps the artist. Fairly sure it's Omi's scene though. In that scene we see Saya place a greater importance on human life than Fuminori for the first time. Yes she had commited murder but there seems to an awareness that this is in somewhere undesirable or even evil (see how she raises the issue with Fuminori).

Completely different question: How well did you think the sex scenes were used in Song of Saya? (And do you say "Song of Saya or "Saya no uta"?)

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112510
>Do you think so? I thought that the reason she had not attempted to fufill her genetic imperitive beforehand was because of the lack of a romantic partner, and that Fuminori was simply the first person to respond positively to her, other than her father figure (it's a good thing she never read any incest manga).

I disagree to a point. The good doctor that gave her the name Saya could have provided her with (human) semen. IIRC he gave her Rat semen to see what she could do with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>Completely different question: How well did you think the sex scenes were used in Song of Saya?

At one point I did feel 'another one? Already?' That was probably because it was pretty short and I played it out in a day. Really though, I didn't think any more of them than any other VN I've played. Sometimes they feel arbitrary and sometimes they feel like it's story progression.

>(And do you say "Song of Saya or "Saya no uta"?)

"Saya no Uta" to refer to the VN
"Song of Saya" to the song (both of them).

[Anonymous No.]

>Completely different question: How well did you think the sex scenes were used in Song of Saya? (And do you say "Song of Saya or "Saya no uta"?)

they blended pretty well, maybe yoh's were the only ones somewhat extra

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112843

Yes he gave her semen but she also had the concept of not "reproducing" until she had a romantic partner (which he could not provide her with).

>>2112871

I felt quite the opposite really. Yoh's sex scenes marked Fuminori's growing disregard for the feelings of other people, the sheer depravity of his treatment of her could be seen as being quite distressing. In addition our knowledge of her "true" appearence at this point made her constant "suckling" on him during phone conversations and such somewhat disgusting.

On the other hand only 2 of Saya's scenes seemed to have any real impact on the storyline; the first one to establish the explicit nature of their relationship (though arguably still overly graphic for acheiving that end) and the second one being the rape scene, although it still somewhat confuses me.

I suppose the rape scene is actually quite an interesting scene, a more violent reflection of Fuminori perhaps, and certainly the CGs are the closest thing we come to seeing what sex between Saya and Fuminori would look like. It really does serve to trigger all these comparisons between the artist and Fuminori. Which one is more insane? Which one is more immoral?

But it also serves to highlight the perverse sanctity of their relationship, and it is the first time Fuminori is depicted as Saya's saviour as well. Perhaps it could be called the first of their reversal in roles, supporting this persons theory:-

>>2112683

[Anonymous No.]

>>2112955

>Yoh's sex scenes marked Fuminori's growing disregard for the feelings of other people

for me that happened when he decided to cannibalize his neighbour, hide the corpses in the fridge and try to kill his best friend

even when he saw them as monsters he was conscious they were human

still Yoh's weren't bad scenes i enjoyed them as well

[Anonymous No.]

>>2113078
>for me that happened when he decided to cannibalize his neighbour, hide the corpses in the fridge and try to kill his best friend

Best friend part aside, and this is despite the best efforts of the director to build up the neighbours as real people in previous scenes, the abuse of Yoh was the first time (and perhaps only time)he'd done anything extreme against someone who wished him nothing but kindness. The neighbour was doing something fairly unpleasant before his death, and from a very utilitarian perspective eating somebody who has died for unrelated reasons is fair game.