Touhou LORE

[Anonymous No.]

Haven't had a real one of these in a while.

[Anonymous No.]

Interesting frog.

[Anonymous No.]

.

[Anonymous No.]

Ever wonder what that pattern on Clownpiece is? It's actually inspired by the American flag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20288405
It's one of the frogs from Suwako's clothes. The images of these anthropomorphic frogs come from the famous Japanese work of art, 鳥獣人物戯画 (Chouju-jinbutsu-giga lit. "Animal-Person Caricatures"). In English the common nickname of the piece is "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals". Suwako is wearing it because, obviously, she's associated with frogs (the god she's based on, Moreya 洩矢, is associated with frogs/toads). Mamizou also references the scrolls, in her cards 伍番勝負「鳥獣戯画」(Fifth Duel "Chouju Giga) from TD and its counterpart 変化「鳥獣戯画」(Transformation "Chouju Giga") from HM (Chouju Giga lit. "Animal Caricature" is a common shortening of the full name, most fan translations have opted for the common English nickname "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals"). In fact, Mamizou's iconic danmaku may be inspired from the scroll itself. Her "human-shaped" danmaku references the anthropomorphic monkeys from the Chouju Giga (the first card featuring them specifically used the term "primate" and not "human). Similarly, her frog and fox danmaku also comes from the famous scrolls (the fox danmaku is commonly mistaken for to be a dog although it most likely represents a fox). Finally, her bird danmaku is a reference to the birds that appear in the scroll and is probably a nod to the name of the scroll itself (Chouju 鳥獣 is translated as "animals" but it literally means "birds and beasts"). But why is Mamizou associated with the scroll? This post is to be continued...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292395
Marisa's pointy hat is a subtle reference to the fact that she's a witch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292654
Well, the answer is simple. The scrolls were commissioned and owned by the Buddhist Kozan Temple (高山寺 Kozan-ji). The scrolls depict animals dressed up as Buddhist monks and frogs praying to a frog buddha. That is what the OP pic is. A frog in a buddha-like pose. You must be thinking that it's ironic that the Shinto-based Suwako has that on her clothes but it's actually not. Historically, the Suwa shrine complex has also been in the hands of Buddhist temples. Shintoism and esotetric Buddhism had good relations with each other in those times to the point where many kami were considered incarnations of Buddhist figures, including the kami of the Suwa shrine. Getting back on track, tanuki by themselves are intrinsically linked with Buddhism. Before Buddhism became prevalent in Japan, tanuki were portrayed as slender, selfish tricksters similar to kitsune (foxes and raccoon dogs look similar and are closely related). The evil tanuki were skilled at transforming themselves and other things (particularly leaves) into different objects. When Buddhism came around, tanuki transformed into good-willed (although still mischievous), potbellied creatures that symbolized happiness, wealth, and fortune. These tanuki commonly dressed up as Buddhist monks (straw hat and all) and had knowledge of sutras and Buddhist teachings. It's speculated that this fat, monk-dressed depiction of tanuki originated from images of Hotei (a famous round-bellied Buddhist monk who also symbolized wealth and good fortune). In any case, tanuki are associated with Buddhism. This is why ZUN associated Mamizou with the Myouren Temple and why he associated Mamizou with the Chouju Jinbutsu Giga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292786
>>20292654
Interesting

[Anonymous No.]

Whats the deal with shikieiki? Why isnt she having much control of hell compared to someone like hecatia?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292786
>>20292798
Perhaps most interesting itself is that ZUN has an illustration of some frogs from the Chouju Giga on his own door. This picture is taken from the MAG.net Touhou Documentary some years back. The Choju Giga is considered by many to be the first manga and is, like Touhou, riddled with many religious and cultural undertones. It clearly holds some personal significance to ZUN. Perhaps serves it as some sort of inspiration to him. Anyway, let's break down Mamizou further. Her first name マミゾウ (Mamizou) comes from 猯/貒 (mami lit. badger/raccoon dog) and 三 (san lit. "three" which can also be read as ゾウ zou). Mami, although having the modern meaning of "badger", references either tanuki (狸 raccoon dog) or anaguma (穴熊 badger)/kan (貛 badger) or both depending on what regional dialect is used. Mami could also come from 魔魅 (deceiving spirit; references the trickster nature of youkai tanuki and youkai badgers). Even 狸 (tanuki) can be read as "mami". Interesting but not related is the 狢/貉 (mujina lit. badger/raccoon dog), another term corresponding to tanuki or araguma/kan or both depending on what dialect is being used. 三 (san, read as "zou" in Mamizou) comes from 団三郎狸 (danzaburou-danuki; in this case 三 is read as "za"). Danzaburou-danuki is one of the three legendary tanuki (bake-danuki) of Japan along with Shibaemon-danuki and Hage-danuki. Danzaburou-danuki is the leader of the tanuki from Sado island and is said to be an extremely cunning (due to his latent abilities in transformation). He famously kept kitsune (foxes) from coming to the island, which is supposedly why the island is so full of tanuki but absent of kitsune today. Mamizou's surname, Futatsuiwa (二ッ岩 lit "two stones"; referencing the giant testicles of a tanuki), is a direct reference to the Futatsuiwa of Sado island, a location where the most of the island's tanuki proliferate. Danzaburou-danuki was so beloved in his island that he was dieified as the Futatsuiwa Daimyojin. People still visit the Futatsuiwa shrine to pay their respects to the god. Anyway, Mamizou claims she is "one of the top 3 tanuki" of Japan and that she sailed from Sado into Gensokyo and that her island was devoid of foxes. Her TD theme is "Futatsuiwa from Sado". All this points to her being Danzaburou-danuki.
>>20292879
After Mamizou I'll do this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293050
>魔魅
>Mima backwards
I FEEL IT IN MY BONES

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292709
Reimu's outfit is inspired by the occupation known as a "Miko" in the religion "Shinto" which is practiced in "Japan".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292395
>>20292709
>>20293395
"Anon" is "shitting" up this thread and should "probably" go back to his "waifu" "image dump" instead of "seething" very "publicly" and "loudly" for no good "reason" other than to "shitpost".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293550
Make a good post instead of adding to the shit, then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293550
Very low quality post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293050
Next, analysis of her designs. Mamizou's first appearance in TD. Her appearance is that of a typical tanuki. Her main palette is green and brown, typical for a tanuki. Her skirt has a pattern of waves and a boat on it. This is in reference to her sailing from Sado to Gensokyo and also a reference to how Danzaburou-danuki originally came to Sado (by boat). Danzaburou's connection with boats is deeper than that, he was also Sado's ferryman and in one story he tricked a kitsune who wanted to go to Sado by having it transform into a vest (to supposedly disguise him from potential humans). At the half way point to Sado, Danzaburou quickly slipped the vest off into the ocean and rowed away. Other things of note are her also carries a sake bottle, paper book, leaf, giant tail, and glasses. Her sake bottle (徳利 tokkuri) is typical of a tanuki to carry, it symbolizes gratitude and virtue and comes from and old tale in which a tanuki comes to a brewery to take sake on a rainy night. There exists a character, 霾 (bai lit. "misty") which is composed of the radicals 雨 (rain) and 貍 (tanuki). The Japanese text 新著聞集畧記 (Shinchomonshu Ryakki) tells of a mujina/tanuki killed by a dog. The last thing the creature wrote before it died was a seal containing the character 霾. According to the author of text, tanuki and mujina live in holes although it rains because they can bypass it using their magical power but even they cannot escape a surprise attack of a ferocious dog (tanuki/mujina and kitsune enemies of dogs). Usually, a tanuki's sake bottle has the character 八 (hachi lit. "eight") on it to symbolize trust and the procurement of sake (the hachi emblem was a very trustworthy seal in Edo Japan, when the character was first put on the tanuki's sake bottle) but Mamizou's bottle has the character for "alcoholic beverage" on it (酒). Probably because ZUN himself is a drunkard. Mamizou's notebook is actually promissory note (通長tsucho) that tanuki carry because they never pay their debts (they're always transforming leaves into money instead of actually paying). In modern times it symbolizes trustworthiness instead (it was construed so that the notes means that the tanuki would pay instead of its avoidance of paying). The leaf on Mamizou's head is a common feature of tanuki, it is said that a tanuki puts leaves on its head before transforming. Her giant raccoon-like striped tail is a common feature in modern tanuki. Tanuki never had giant raccoon tails in traditional Japanese folklore but thanks to Super Mario Bros. 3, the raccoon and tanuki are often conflated in popular culture. ZUN says that the larger and more magnificent a beast youkai's tail is, the more important and high-status they are. Mamizou has a huge tail, fitting for the great Danzaburou-danuki. The glasses are a reflection of Mamizou's old-fashioned ways and might ZUN's way of referencing himself. Mamizous human form has ger gain longer hair and a kimono, with a button that has a silhouette of a human on it and a checkered scarf that could be Mamizou's way of mimicking Kosuzu. In HM/ULiL nothing changes except for her hat, which is now a giant green leaf with a yellow bow and bells. This hat is supposed to resemble a straw hat (笠 kasa). Tanuki often wear this due to the rain or in order to mimick a Buddhist monk, as explained in previous posts. The bells and bow are another nod to Kosuzu. Mamizou also gains a pipe (煙管 kiseru), probably just another way to show her seemingly old age/maturity. Her ULiL/AoCF portrait also has a pose in which her tail looks likes giant testicles. It's almost certain that this was intentional. Of course in ULiL she gets a black suit as a reference to MIB but that'll be covered when going over spell cards.
>>20293292
Coincidence!
>>20293550
It's fine, just let it happen. There's always those shitposters who are very vocal about being anti-lore and anti-analysis. Don't interact with the ignorant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293550
>>20293706
I see some Touhou lore is simply too deep for you. That's okay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293550
I think he's just making fun of the last thread where some anon was surprised Kaguya was based on a legend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293706
great stuff anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293292
Given that the next game's plot is probably related to hell and evil spirits (ibarakasen is building to this)...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293050
Who are the other 2 top tanuki?

[Anonymous No.]

Hecatia is the beloved and only daughter of Perses and Asteria, the most beloved caretaker and aunt of the Gods, has dominion over the earth, seas, and skies, can freely travel between the mortal realm and the land of the dead, can bless mortals with good luck and prosperity, can take aforementioned blessings away. In fact, Hecatia was so great, she was often identified with several other goddesses. As the queen of nature, she would be praised in place of Demeter, as a huntress and protector of youth in place of Artemis, as a goddess of the moon, she was considered a mystic Persephone. She was also connected to the worship of Cabeiri and Curetes and even Apollo and he Muses. In the time of the Greek tragedians, she also became a goddess of the underworld, comforting Persephone in the fall and winter seasons. She has power over the dead, the goddess of purifications and expiations and is accompanied by stygian dogs. Though a virgin goddess, she is the mother of Scylla and as an infernal divinity, she can send from the underworld demons and phantoms, powerful in sorcery and witchcraft, to crossroads, tombs, and the murdered. She is announced by the whining and howling of dogs and may sometimes have the head of a horse, a dog and a lion befitting her monstrosity. She was so popular, Greek households would have small statues before or in the house and at crossroads and people would often consult these statues, the Hecataea as oracles.

As great and powerful as Hecatia is though, she is not the type to tackle a problem head-on. As her name implies, she works from afar. She is a divine, almost mystical goddess and was worshiped for the production of mysteries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20309596
I remember this post.
It was in the same thread as my ''Hecatia is the only idol i'm happy to see on /jp/'' joke.
It's good to think back...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20309696
It was a nice thread from what I remember, I'll continue to repost some of them everyone once in a while to keep this thread running so the other anon can keep his analysis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20302422
>ibarakasen is building to this
So is Sangetsusei.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293706
I had things to do these past couple of days so sorry this took so long but let's continue with spell cards
>壱番勝負「霊長化弾幕変化」(First Duel "Primate Danmaku Transformation")
>弐番勝負「肉食化弾幕変化」(Second Duel "Carnivorous Danmaku Transformation")
>参番勝負「延羽化弾幕変化」(Third Duel "Avian Danmaku Transformation")
>四番勝負「両生化弾幕変化」(Fourth Duel "Amphibian Danmaku Transformation")
>伍番勝負「鳥獣戯画」(Fifth Duel "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals") / 変化「鳥獣戯画」(Transformation "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals") All referencing the Chouju Jinbutsu Giga. See these posts 20292654 and 20292786. Also, the Japanese Touhou wiki points out that the frog danmaku in "Amphibian Danmaku Transformation" look strikingly similar to the frog suit sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3. Whether this was intentional or not is unknown, but if it is then it connects perfectly since the main attraction of SMB3 was the tanuki leaf power up.
>六番勝負「狸の化け学校」(Sixth Duel "Tanuki's Monster Transformation School") For some reason the English Touhou wiki translates it as just "Monstrous School" even though 化け is clearly a pun on both the literal meaning of "transformation" (tanuki are prolific transformation artists) and obake/bakemono (monster). Anyway, the name is a reference to the お化け大学校 (Obakedaigakkou lit. "Great Monster School") program that has GeGeGe no Kitaro creator Shigeru Mizuki (and co.) travel to schools/colleges to lecture about youkai, Japanese mythology, and his experiences working with his series. Mamizou is a tanuki, tanuki are youkai, youkai are monsters. This is why ZUN chose to reference that program. Oh and probably because GeGeGe was a huge part of his childhood (like many other Japanese people). The program is still active as of 2018 and it has a website: http://obakedai.jp
>七番勝負「野生の離島」(Seventh Duel "Wild Remote Island") /「ワイルドカーペット」("Wild Carpet") Touhou wiki translates it as "Wild Deserted Island" but that's incorrect. 離島 means "isolated island" and the most accurate English term for that is "remote island". Sado isn't deserted, people still live there. Anyway, the card refers to Sado Island, the home of Mamizou where tanuki run amok. The Japanese wiki states that the danmaku in this card resembles a Maurits Escher pattern but that seems to be a stretch. "Wild Carpet" is the overdrive version of the spell card and it seems the name might be a reference to carpet bombing. The Japanese wiki points out that it may be a reference to a tanuki's scrotum, which is said to be able to stretch out to the size of 8 tatami mats (mats=carpet?). The simplest explanation is that the danmaku looks like a rolling carpet.
>変化「まぬけ巫女の偽調伏」(Transformation "Pseudo-Exorcism of the Foolish Shrine Maiden") Touhou Wiki used "stupid" but Mamizou never calls Reimu dumb in the extra stage dialogue, she just calls her "confident" and says that she will "put her back in her place". After the fight is over Mamizou calls Reimu ignorant. Thus, "foolish" (as in foolish to challenge me, foolish for being so closed-minded) is the right choice. Mamizou transforms into Reimu in this card and performs a mock exorcism. She's making fun of Reimu. まぬけ (manuke lit. "idiot/moron/fool") maybe a reference to 魔奴化 (also pronounced "manuke"), a boss from Taito's Kiki KaiKai that transforms into the main character, miko Sayo-chan, and attacks her. Manuke is a tanuki and later becomes Sayo-chan's companion. Thus, the whole spell card is a reference to Kiki KaiKai. Not to mention the entire series...
>「マミゾウ化弾幕十変化」("Mamizou Danmaku in Ten Transformations") Her penultimate spell card in TD's extra. It reminds us of the ten spell cards an extra boss has and the name of the game, Ten Desires. 10 is a recurring theme in the game, with Miko having the ability to listen to ten conversations at once and figure out a person's ten desires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293706
I had things to do these past couple of days so sorry this took so long but let's continue with spell cards
>壱番勝負「霊長化弾幕変化」(First Duel "Primate Danmaku Transformation")
>弐番勝負「肉食化弾幕変化」(Second Duel "Carnivorous Danmaku Transformation")
>参番勝負「延羽化弾幕変化」(Third Duel "Avian Danmaku Transformation")
>四番勝負「両生化弾幕変化」(Fourth Duel "Amphibian Danmaku Transformation")
>伍番勝負「鳥獣戯画」(Fifth Duel "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals") / 変化「鳥獣戯画」(Transformation "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals")
All referencing the Chouju Jinbutsu Giga. See these posts 20292654 and 20292786. Also, the Japanese Touhou wiki points out that the frog danmaku in "Amphibian Danmaku Transformation" look strikingly similar to the frog suit sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3. Whether this was intentional or not is unknown, but if it is then it connects perfectly since the main attraction of SMB3 was the tanuki leaf power up.
>六番勝負「狸の化け学校」(Sixth Duel "Tanuki's Monster Transformation School")
For some reason the English Touhou wiki translates it as just "Monstrous School" even though 化け is clearly a pun on both the literal meaning of "transformation" (tanuki are prolific transformation artists) and obake/bakemono (monster). Anyway, the name is a reference to the お化け大学校 (Obakedaigakkou lit. "Great Monster School") program that has GeGeGe no Kitaro creator Shigeru Mizuki (and co.) travel to schools/colleges to lecture about youkai, Japanese mythology, and his experiences working with his series. Mamizou is a tanuki, tanuki are youkai, youkai are monsters. This is why ZUN chose to reference that program. Oh and probably because GeGeGe was a huge part of his childhood (like many other Japanese people). The program is still active as of 2018 and it has a website: http://obakedai.jp
>七番勝負「野生の離島」(Seventh Duel "Wild Remote Island") /「ワイルドカーペット」("Wild Carpet")
Touhou wiki translates it as "Wild Deserted Island" but that's incorrect. 離島 means "isolated island" and the most accurate English term for that is "remote island". Sado isn't deserted, people still live there. Anyway, the card refers to Sado Island, the home of Mamizou where tanuki run amok. The Japanese wiki states that the danmaku in this card resembles a Maurits Escher pattern but that seems to be a stretch. "Wild Carpet" is the overdrive version of the spell card and it seems the name might be a reference to carpet bombing. The Japanese wiki points out that it may be a reference to a tanuki's scrotum, which is said to be able to stretch out to the size of 8 tatami mats (mats=carpet?). The simplest explanation is that the danmaku looks like a rolling carpet.
>変化「まぬけ巫女の偽調伏」(Transformation "Pseudo-Exorcism of the Foolish Shrine Maiden")
Touhou wiki used "stupid" but Mamizou never calls Reimu dumb in the extra stage dialogue, she just calls her "confident" and says that she will "put her back in her place". After the fight is over Mamizou calls Reimu ignorant. Thus, "foolish" (as in foolish to challenge me, foolish for being so closed-minded) is the right choice. Mamizou transforms into Reimu in this card and performs a mock exorcism. She's making fun of Reimu. まぬけ (manuke lit. "idiot/moron/fool") maybe a reference to 魔奴化 (also pronounced "manuke"), a boss from Taito's Kiki KaiKai that transforms into the main character, miko Sayo-chan, and attacks her. Manuke is a tanuki and later becomes Sayo-chan's companion. Thus, the whole spell card is a reference to Kiki KaiKai. Not to mention the entire series...
>「マミゾウ化弾幕十変化」("Mamizou Danmaku in Ten Transformations")
Her penultimate spell card in TD's extra. It reminds us of the ten spell cards an extra boss has and the name of the game, Ten Desires. 10 is a recurring theme in the game, with Miko having the ability to listen to ten conversations at once and figure out a person's ten desires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310403
cont.
>狢符「満月のポンポコリン」(Mujina Sign "Full Moon Pompokolin")
狢 means mujina, not "raccoon". Look back at post 20293050 for details. Mujina is the word the residents of Sado used instead of tanuki. Danzaburo-danuki used to be called Danzaburou-mujina before tanuki overtook mujina in usage. おどるポンポコリン (Odoru Pompokolin) is a 90's song by the Japanese pop group B.B. Queens, popularly known due to its use in the original ED of the anime Chibi Maruko-chan. The sound a tanuki makes when it drums its belly is ポンポコ ポン ポン (ponpoko pon pon). Tanuki belly drum specifically during nights of a full moon in Japanese mythology. Mamizou's power increases during a full moon, but this is true of most youkai. Her spell card background is also of a full moon. Perhaps coincidentally, Ten Desires was released on August 13th, 2011. Japan had a full moon the next day. This spell card also mimics and opposes Miko's spell card 仙符「日出ずる処の天子」(Hermit Sign "Emperor of the Land of the Rising Sun") due to obvious reasons (Mamizou was called in by Nue to defeat Miko).
>うつせみ地蔵変化 (Utsusemi Jizo Transformation)
A skill, not a spell card. うつせみ (utsusemi) cannot really be translated but it means something like "person of the present/ephemeral world" or "temporal" (not spiritual/irreligious) or "life/reality". Apparently the word refers to the "frail, evanescent nature of all things in this world". It also refers to cicada shells (空蝉 utsusemi). Utsusemi is also the name of a Noh play and a character in the Tale of Genji (which is also a popular Noh play) (Hopeless Masquerade deals with Kokoro, a tsukumogami born from 66 noh masks). Utsusemi is also a ninja technique in which the user quickly replaces their body with a nearby object like a log or leaves in order to evade a hit, much like how Mamizou transforms into a Jizo statue to not get hit in this skill. With that it should basically mean "Transient Jizo Transformation" or "Short-Term Jizo Transformation" but that would lose the poetic and multi-faceted nature of the word utsusemi. It's a Jizo statue specifically because there are tanuki-shaped Jizo statues. It also brings to mind the Tanuki Suit power up of Super Mario Bros. 3, which allows Mario to transform into a Jizo statue.
>怪奇送り提灯 (Bizarre Okuri-Chouchin)
A skill, not a spell card. Okuri-chouchin (lit. sending off lantern) are youkai lanterns similar to chouchin-obake (lit. lantern monster). Mamizou has a traditional youkai theme to her and uses her tanuki followers as weapons, having them transform into various things (such as youkai).
>鳥獣琵琶法師 (Animal Biwa Priest)
A skill. 鳥獣 (Choujuu lit. birds and beasts; animal[s]). Another reference the Chouju Giga. This attack allows Mamizou to send out danmaku that look exactly like the animals from the Chouju Giga. See post 20292654 and 20292786 for more on the Chouju Giga. 琵琶法師 (biwa hoshi lit. biwa priest) were traveling performers who dressed up like Buddhist monks and were most active before the Meiji period. 鳥獣琵琶法師 is also the name of an enemy in the game Genpei Toma Den who shoots out animals from the Chouju Giga using his biwa. This skill is almost certainly likely to be derived from from that enemy. By the way, a biwa is a Japanese instrument similar to a lute.
>妖怪アミキリ変化 (Youkai Amikiri Transformation)
A skill. Mamizou sends out one of her tanuki followers in the form of an amikiri, a weird youkai with crab-like claws, to attack.
>妖怪カラカッサ変化 (Youkai Karakasa Transformation)
A skill. Mamizou uses one of her tanuki followers in the form of a karakasa (youkai umbrella) as a melee weapon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310423
cont.
>妖怪つるべぇ変化 (Youkai Tsurube Transformation)
A skill. Mamizou sends out one of her tanuki followers in the form of a tsurube (a youkai in a bucket that drops down from trees) to swing out and smash the opponent.
>妖怪オモカゲ変化 (Youkai Omokage Transformation)
A skill. Mamizou transforms into the opponent and uses one of their skills or stabs using her karakasa or slams down using her nurikabe (塗壁; wall youkai) or swings with her sake bottle. Omokage (オモカゲ) means "face", "shadow", or "vestige". Interesting to note is that the origins of the nurikabe are speculated to be from tanuki (who use their scrotum as a wall to block people) or other transforming beast youkai who take the form of a wall for their tricks.
>変化「分福熱湯風呂」(Transformation "Bunbuku Hot Water Bath")
分福 (bunbuku) refers to the story 分福茶釜 (Bunbuku Chagama lit. "tea pot bubbling with luck") in which the tanuki priest Shukaku (守鶴) was saved from an animal trap by a poor man. As thanks, the tanuki transformed into a wondrous tea pot that always retains perfect boiling temperature. The poor man sells this tea pot to a Buddhist monk but when the monk heats up the tea pot with fire, Shukaku dispels his illusion and runs away. Feeling bad for the poor man, Shukaku goes back to him and comes up with a plan to make the man more money. He transforms into a tea pot once again and walks on a tightrope, much to people's amazement. People pay to see this show and the poor man is poor no longer. 熱湯風呂 is literally "hot water bath" yet the English Touhou wiki translates it as "hot soup bath" even though the kanji for soup is not present. The spell card features Mamizou in a giant chagama (tea pot) that expels steam upwards to attack the opponent. The chagama has a tanuki tail which makes one wonder if Mamizou is using Shukaku himself. 熱湯風呂 is also (probably coincidentally) the name of a game show segment on "THEガンバルマン (THE Ganbaruman)".
>変化「百鬼妖界の門」(Transformation "Youkai World Gate of One Hundred Demons")
百鬼 (hyakki lit. "one hundred demons") is a shortening of 百鬼夜行 (hyakki yagyo lit. "night parade of one hundred demons), a famous motif in Japanese mythology wherein a great amount of youkai march from the supernatural world into the real world. 妖界 literally means "spirit world" but it reads exactly the same as 妖怪 (youkai) due to it being a pun. Thus, the compromise in English is just "youkai world". 門 means gate but it's referencing the tori (鳥居) that Mamizou summons in order for the youkai (tanuki disguised as youkai) to cross. The youkai are described here:
https://pastebin.com/wCEAsLWR
The card references the art style of the many depictions of hyakki yagyos in Japanese scrolls and art pieces.
>変化「二ッ岩家の裁き」(Transformation "Judgement of the Futatsuiwa Clan")
The spell card name and function is a reference to one of Anakaris' moves from Capcom's "Darkstalkers", "Judgment of the Royal Family (王家の裁き)". Anakaris turns the opponent into an animal or other defenseless thing. Similarly, Mamizou does the exact same. The transformations of each character and their meaning can be found here:
https://pastebin.com/nqkTwXFs
>変化「満月の花鳥園」(Transformation "Garden of Flowers and Birds Under the Full Moon")
花鳥園 (kachouen lit. "flower bird garden") are a modern line of zoo-like eco-parks found all over Japan, with the most famous being Kakegawa Kachouen. It has no real relation to Mamizou but the prevalence of birds and flora in the park kind of go with Mamizou's leaves and bird danmaku (which she heavily uses in the spell card). Perhaps ZUN had fond memories of going to one of the kachouen and decided to dedicate a spell card to it. It's specifically under the full moon because tanuki are most active on nights of the full moon, as stated previously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310437
cont.
>「神社のお釈迦様」("Oshaka-sama of the Shinto Shrine")
Mamizou is disguised as Reimu in this spell card. She flies around on clouds and drops yin-yang orbs. This is very similar to the Oshaka-sama in Genpei Toma Den's bonus stage, who rides around on a cloud while dropping points. Oshaka-sama roughly translates to "Great Master Shaka" and is referencing the Shakyamuni Buddha, otherwise known as Gautama Buddha. The connection between tanuki and Buddhism was made in a previous post. The shinto shrine part obviously references Reimu (as Mamizou is disguised as her).
>「ベンテンの琵琶法師」("Benten Biwa Priest")
Mamizou is disguised as Byakuren in this spell card. ベンテン (Benten) is a nickname for the Japanese Buddhist goddess Benzaiten (弁才天). The biwa is a symbol of Benzaiten. This spell card is a upgraded version of "Animal Biwa Priest" so it retains the same references to the Chouju Giga and Genpei Toma Den.
>「たわむれはおわりじゃ」("Playtime's Over")
Mamizou is disguised as Miko in this spell card. The name is a reference to Miko's exact quote from her TD fight and the words of the last boss from Genpei Toma Den, Yoritomo (頼朝). The card has Miko (Mamizou) turn giant as she rides around on a cloud and attacks the player. Yoritomo is giant in one stage section of Genpei Toma Den and his final boss fight has him float around in a manner similar to what is presented in this spell card. Yorimoto also carries a shaku (笏), much like Miko (which is probably why the spell card is associated with her in the first place).
>「八百八狸囃子」("Belly-Drumming of the Eight Hundred and Eight Tanuki")
This is Mamizou's Last word in HM. For some reason the English Touhou wiki translates this as "Belly-Drumming of Infinitely Infinite Tanuki" but that's just plain wrong. The spell card is referencing the story "松山騒動八百八狸物語 (Tale of the Matsuyama Disturbance and the Eight Hundred and Eight Tanuki)". In that story the legendary bakedanuki Inugami Gyobu (隠神刑部) commands a legion of 808 tanuki in order to guard Matsuyama Castle. Belly-drumming is what tanuki usually do on nights of a full moon, as mentioned earlier. Also, the animation Mamizou makes during the spell card is similar to one of Rocket Raccoon's hyper combos from Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3.
>「鳴かぬなら泣くまで待とう時鳥」("If the Cuckoo Does Not Call, Wait For It to Cry")
This spell card is a slightly harder version of [参番勝負「延羽化弾幕変化」(Third Duel "Avian Danmaku Transformation")]. The spell card's name is directly lifted from a poem, with this specific line referring to daimyo (feudal lord) Tokugawa Ieyasu who was known for his thoughtful, patient approach to things. He patiently waited for previous daimyo Toyotomi Hideyoshi death's to take power. His cunning demeanor led people to jokingly refer to him as a tanuki, who are known to be crafty (which is probably why Mamizou had this spell card name). It could also reference in-story events. Mamizou tells Seija to give up on ISC's 6th day since the tengu's papers will alert stronger people to try and catch her then she randomly gives her the idea to use two items at once. Mamizou doesn't attack Seija until the 8th day, however. Perhaps Mamizou's intention was to give Seija an edge in order to have her win a couple of battles and attract even stronger people who could defeat her. Mamizou was playing the waiting game just like the spell card described.
>「にんげんって良いな」("Humans Are Nice")
The title is a parody of one of the ED songs from the anime "Manga Nippon Mukashi Banashi (まんが日本昔ばなし lit. "Japanese Folk Tale Cartoon")", "にんげんっていいな (Humans Are Nice)". The anime, of course, adapts a bunch of old Japanese folk tales and myths. Including those concerning tanuki. It also goes with Mamizou's "Pompokolin" spell card which also referenced an anime ED. Mamizou fires human-shaped bullets. It's also worth noting that Mamizou herself enjoys the company of humans and visits the human village often.
>エイリアンカプセル (Alien Capsule)
A skill. Mamizou deploys a gachapon (ガチャポン) capsule that can expel a tanuki disguised as an alien. The aliens are a typical Grey Alien, a Flatwoods Monster Alien, and a Japanese Martian (火星人 Kaseijin). The pink martians fly (with their tentacles rotating like a fan) similarly to the Martians from the Metal Slug Series. Mamizou's Urban Legend is the Men in Black (MIB), an American urban legend that describes government officials dressed in all-black suits appearing after alien and UFO sightings. MIB could also stand for "Mamizou in Black" as Mamizou herself wears the black suit in some of her ULiL portraits Mamizou is probably associated with aliens because her friend, Nue Houjuu, is also associated with aliens. Nue (species) have the the body of a tanuki and can transform like tanuki, which is probably why ZUN associated Nue with Mamizou. The colors of the gachapon capsules (red, blue, green) also match up with the colors of Nue's UFOs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310444
cont.
>未確認「遊抱戯画」(Unidentified "Scrolls of Wandering UFOs")
遊抱 (yuuhou) is not an actual word and is just a kanji representation of the pronunciation of "UFO" in Japanese. 遊 does mean "wandering/walking/playing" but 抱 has has the completely unrelated meaning of "hold" or "embrace". If you were to literally translate the card it would be "Caricatures of Wandering Embrace" but that makes no sense at all. 戯画 (giga lit. "caricature[s]) is part of the famous Choujuu Giga, an art piece that Mamizou references a lot in her spell cards because of reasons explained earlier. Giga is commonly translated as "scrolls" and chouju (鳥獣 lit. "birds and beasts") is commonly translated as "frolicking animals". Thus, "Scrolls of Wandering UFOs" is the most fitting translation. The UFOs Mamizou fires are in the same neon outline art that mimics the art of the Chouju Giga and is present due to Mamizou's association with Nue Houjuu and Mamizou's Urban Legend, Men in Black.
>＊満員のエイリアンボール＊ (*Crowded Alien Ball*)
>＊そろそろ帰ろうエイリアン達よ＊ (*Let's Go Home Soon, Aliens)
Both spell cards involve the gachapon capsule and alien motif talked about already. See "Alien Capsule" for more details. Also, "Let's Go Home" in the card refers to the tanuki described as aliens returning to the gachapon capsule but it could also refer to actual aliens returning to their home in the stars.
>＊宇宙機密漏洩！直ちに処置せよ＊ (*Space Security Leak! Deal With the Situation Promptly*)
Mamizou's Urban Legend Last word. She first attacks the player in a comical fashion with clouds emanating after every hit, another reference to one of Rocket Raccoon's Ultra Combos from Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 like presented in her "Belly-Drumming" spell card. She then dawns an MIB costume and uses a microphone shaped device to flash a blinding light at the opponent. This device is a reference to the neuralyzer from the MIB (Men in Black) franchise which, when used against a person, emits a flash of light that can erase their past memories. It's used when someone learns classified information about aliens, which is what the spell card name is referring to. Read "Alien Capsule" to find out about Mamizou's connection to aliens
>ポンポコ太鼓の達人 (Pompoko Taiko Master)
A skill. 太鼓の達人 (Taiko no Tatsujin) is a reference to the video game franchise of the same name. In this skill Mamizou has one of her tanuki followers turn into a drum while Mamizou herself dawns a taiko drummer outfit and drums, releasing leaf projectiles shaped like musical notes. "Pompoko/Ponpoko" is the sound tanuki make when drumming their bellies.
>化火符「妖怪弾幕変化　葉っぱ発破」(Fire Transformation Sign "Youkai Danmaku Transformation: Dry Leaf Detonation")
Shared with Fujiwara no Mokou. Nothing much, just a combination of abilities. Mamizou uses her leaves and Mokou makes them burst into flame. Dry leaves and dry foliage are the main fuel of wildfires, by the way. This card doesn't have much to do with Mamizou.
>槌化符「大判小判弾幕変化」(Mallet Transformation Sign "Large and Small Gold Coin Danmaku Transformation"
Shared with Shinmyoumaru Sukuna. 大判小判 (oban-koban lit. "large coin small coin") is a saying that denotes the possession of a large amount of gold coins (basically another way to say wealthy/rich). Shinmyoumaru's Uchide no Kozuchi (打ち出の小槌 lit. "tap-appear little mallet" commonly referred to as the "magic/miracle mallet") is a magic hammer that taps out anything wished for and is a common symbol of wealth. The oban (large coin) and koban (small coin) are old Japanese gold coins, the juxtaposition between large and small here connects to Shinmyoumaru's power to make things large or small using the power of her mallet. Nothing much to say here about Mamizou, the card name is self explanatory.
>雷化符「務光と葉っぱの弾幕変化」(Thunder Transformation Sign "Mukou and Leaf Danmaku Transformation")
Shared with Kasen Ibaraki. Mukou (務光) is the name of Kasen's raiju (雷獣 lit. "thunder beast"). The card name is self explanatory and doesn't have much to do with Mamizou.
>龍化符「ドラゴンズエイリアンカプセル (Ryu Transformation Sign "Dragon's Alien Capsule")
Shared with Kasen Ibaraki. Kasen has pet dragons. Mamizou utilizes giant gachapon capsules. Nothing much to add.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310449
cont.
>化符「妖怪弾幕変化　夢見心地
(Transformation Sign "Youkai Danmaku Transformation: Dreamy State of Mind)
Used by Dream World Mamizou. Nothing about this card is relevant to her character and the danmaku isn't special or anything.
>神星符「正体不明の怪光人だかり」(Divine Star Sign "Unidentified Ghost-Light Crowd")
Shared with Nue Houjuu. 怪光 (kaikou lit. "mysterious/ghostly light") is not a specific phenomenon or youkai but it refers to any unexplainable floating light, sort of like a will-o-wisp. This phenomenon is called "atmospheric ghost light" in English. The unidentifiable and mysterious nature of ghost lights goes hand in hand with Nue's ability to create unidentifiable objects. "Crowd" is referring to the human-shaped danmaku Mamizou shoots. These human danmaku the suddenly turn into birds. This could be in reference to the nue's call which sounds like the bird call of the scaly thrush (toratsugumi). Nue herself also shoots curving snake-like lasers, a reference to the nue's snake tail. The kanji for divine/god (神) is present in all of Mamizou's cards in VD because many good hearted tanuki were enshrined as kami, including Danzaburou-danuki (Mamizou herself). The kanji for star (星) is here because Nue has an alien/outer space theme to her.
>輝神符「謎のドンドコ人だかり」(Shining Divine Sign "Enigmatic Dondoko Crowd")
Shared with Raiko Horikawa. Mamizou fires her usual human bullets (that then turn to birds) while Raiko rains exploding drums from the sky. ドンドコ (dondoko) is the sound a taiko drum makes and it rhymes with ponpoko/pompoko, the sound of a tanuki drumming its belly. 人だかり (crowd) again because of Mamizou's humans but in this instance it could be something like a crowd watching Raiko perform. 謎 (mysterious/puzzling/enigmatic) in the title is either referencing youkai (妖怪 lit. "mysterious/strange/mystical apparition) a whole (Mamizou is a bake-danuki and Raiko is a tsukumogami) or the tanuki's nature of transformation (allowing it to change things into a number of forms, in this case human danmaku to bird danmaku which could be described as "strange"). The kanji for shining/bright/radiant (輝) is in the card name as either a reference to Raiko's association with lightning/thunder (電光 lit. "electric light") due to her Raijin (雷神 lit. "thunder god") motif or is a reference to a shining/rising star, a person or thing rising in popularity (usually a musician/rock star).
>神緋符「雷雨の中のストーカー」(Divine Scarlet Sign "Stalker in a Thunderstorm")
Shared with Iku Nagae. 雷雨 (thunderstorm) is in the card name because Iku can manipulate weather, especially lighting/thunder due to her being a youkai oarfish that can channel the power of dragons. 緋 (scarlet/crimson/red) is in the card name because ZUN associates the color scarlet with celestials and other beings of the sky (like Iku). Why? Because 緋 (hisou "scarlet") sounds like 非想非非想天 (Hisouhihisouten "Bhavagra"; the highest level of Heaven). Also because oarfish have red accents on their appendages, which is what Iku's frilly clothes are modeled after. ストーカー (stalker) is probably referring to Mamizou but for what reason is a mystery to me. I can only assume it refers to the motif in Japanese stories of tanuki procuring alcohol during rainy nights, which I have explained in post 20293706 (I guess a tanuki waiting on a rainy night can be considered a "stalker" as in stalking a brewery until the coast is clear so they could take alcohol). Or it could just refer to Mamizou's human bullets which momentarily pause and continue pursuing the player between Iku's lightning danmaku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310457
final cont.
I forgot to mention some of Mamizou's clothes. In her original TD appearance she had weird black wristbands which I can't find the inspiration or point of, they never appeared again after that. She also wore flat, straw-colored sandals in TD which are probably waraji (草鞋), typical footwear of a tanuki. In the fighting games she instead gets weird long, black-heeled sandals with bells on them. The bells reference Kosuzu, obviously. In the various manga Mamizou can be seen wearing geta (下駄), traditional Japanese wooden sandals. Her music themes are obvious too, with 佐渡のニッ岩 (Futatsuiwa From Sado) reffering to Mamizou traveling from Sado to Gensokyo and 幻想郷のニッ岩 (Futatsuiwa From Gensokyo) reffering to Mamizou's new residence in Gensokyo. That seems to be all there is to analyze, you can read about her personality and plot relevance in the games, SoPM, and the various manga. As for Mamizou's abilities, she's of course able to disguise herself and other things as completely different objects. ZUN said that these are merely illusions though and can't take the properties of newly transformer into object (for example ZUN said that if she were to transform a dog into a bird, the illusion would be quickly exposed because the dog cannot fly). This is kind of bullshit though because Mamizou, in the fighting games, is able to transform her tanuki followers into various youkai, large or small, flying and terrestrial. She can turn her opponents into small, helpless animals. She even turns one of them into a giant boiling teapot bath that blows off hot steam. A tanuki can certainly not match that size and it certainly does not have the ability to blow off hot steam. Either ZUN retconned his own words or the fighting games and manga aren't canon. I'm going with the former. So, with this ability in mind, I'd say she's pretty powerful. It has endless uses and possibilities. She's also described as one of the 3 strongest tanuki of Japan and her tail is huge (ZUN states that the size and magnificence of the tail of a beast youkai measures its importance and strength). Putting all this together, it seems Mamizou is the strongest beast youkai and one of the strongest youkai in Gensokyo along with Yukari and the oni. Ran might be her only true match but she's a shikigami that gets power from being close to her master so without Yukari around I think it's safe to say Mamizou would beat Ran in a serious battle. So that's pretty much it...
>>20306095
I already mentioned them in that post you replied to, they're Shibaemon-danuki and Hage-danuki. Are you asking if they appear in the series though? If so, no they don't (at least not so far). Mamizou mentions two other powerful tanuki so that confirms their existence but that's about it. They're probably doing their own thing in the outside world right now.
>>20292654
>>20292786
>>20293050
Forgot to add something about the Chouju Giga. Kyoukou's and Mystia's band is called Chouju Gigaku (鳥獣伎楽 lit. "Gigaku of the Bird and Beast). 伎楽 (Gigaku) is an ancient form of Japanese dance. ZUN really does love referencing the Chouju Jinbutsu Giga.

[Anonymous No.]

this is a good thread

[Anonymous No.]

Is this the legendary wall of text otaku?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20287443
More like, Mamizou's lore general.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20297457
>anon was surprised Kaguya was based on a legend.
The fuck?
"Princess Kaguya" is literally everywhere. Especially in old shows and is referenced somewhere somehow in some way.

[Anonymous No.]

Extremely high quality lore thread

[promotions No.]

>>20313088
I guess it's due to him lacking a contact with japanese culture, and it's not so much common knowledge if you're on the west.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292395
It's actually the opposite.
Clownpiece's leggings inspired Abraham Lincoln to create the flag.

[Anonymous No.]

The reason kogasa is a blacksmith is that, according to her, all creatures with "1 eye and 1 foot" all get a bit of ambient faith from ippon datara, who's name as a youkai comes from that same tatara.

Ippon datara are thought to be master blacksmiths by some due to their looks, Having "Lost an eye staring into furnaces and lost a leg from years of pumping the bellows". Due to the connection of "Having one eye and leg" any "One eye and one legged youkai" Gets some ambient ability to be a blacksmith. Since kogasa's form as a youkai is the karakasa obake, or umbrella ghost/monster, her umbrella is her base form and it only has one eye and one "Leg".

In short, the two resemble eachother enough to draw a comparison.

Kogasa in and of herself seems to have done this intentionally, but it is an important distinction. For that matter, kogasa may actually secretly be an ippon datara. That'd be a really cool twist, honestly.

I tought I had enough informative posts like this saved but most of it is copypastas and trash. Oh well, I wonder for how long can we keep this thread's alive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20319173
I remember reading a bit of this after that chapter of WaHH. Pretty nice

[Anonymous No.]

Could anyone explain to me the meaning/ symbolism behind the name: "Heavenly Jade Dipper" and how is it related to Okina and the Dancers, or the whole game? What I've found so far is that, "Heavenly" probably is about "Constellation" and the "Dipper" is.. well, the Dipper, but I'm not sure if it's the Major or Minor. And I have no idea what "Jade" means here, but old Chinese highly valued the mineral for its meaning of immortality.

I also read about the 4 Chinese symbols, which corresponds to 4 seasons, but this is probably not related at all. I was just reading about the Black Turtle stuff.

And there's "Bugang", which is a Taoist ritual dance (related to Mai and Satono?) based on the "Steps of Yu" tradition, in which a Taoist priest paces through a supernatural pattern, such as stars in the Big Dipper.

[Anonymous No.]

where is medi-chan's lore at?

[Anonymous No.]

I read here somewhere that Futo is actually Tojiko's mom or something like that. What was that about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20287443
Just want to say thanks. This shit is the reason I still love 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326302
4 what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292879
Simply put, Hecatia is Shiki's boss' boss' boss. Shiki is a provincial judge while Hecatia is the president, as far as comparisons go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20287443
Touhou lore doesn't exist though. Everything is literal headcanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310462
Tell me about Okina, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326302
You mean 4channel

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326302
>4chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326302
>4chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>20326804
>>20329092
>>20329151
>>20329550
I will not now, nor will I ever call it that other thing. 4chan forever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20292879
I'm finally back after finishing Mamizou. Eiki should, thankfully, not be all that complicated. Eiki Shiki's (四季映姫 Shiki Eiki) name is not all that convoluted. Thanks to a translation fuck up, a lot of Western fans think that her first name is "Shikieiki/Sikieiki" and that her last name is "Yamaxanadu". This is not correct, however. "Shiki Eiki" is just the Japanese order of her full name, with the surname appearing before the first name. "Yamaxanadu (ヤマザナドゥ)" is just her title (she is a judge after all). In true English order her full name + title should have been formated like "Yamaxanadu, Eiki Shiki". Eiki (映姫) literally means "mirror/reflection princess" but 姫 (hime, pronounced "ki" in this case) doesn't literally mean princess in her name. It's just a feminine way to end a female name in Japanese and was (in older times) only used in the names of females of noble birth (Eiki herself is a yama, a respected position in hell). It most likely refers to 浄玻璃鏡 (Johari no Kagami), a type of magical mirror used by Enma-o and the other judges of hell that reflects all the sins of a person's life. The kanji also appears in PoFV's title, 花映塚 (Kaedzuka lit. "Flower Viewing Mound") where 花映 ("flower reflection") refers to the Japanese cultural custom of 花見 (hanami lit. "flower viewing") (which connects to the game since the flowers of Gensokyo are unusually beautiful due to blooming all at once thanks to souls inhabiting them, making it a perfect time to view flowers as expressed by many characters in the in-game dialogue). 映 can also mean to "transfer" or "move" and can refer to the transferring of souls from Higan to the flowers of Gensokyo. Shiki (四季) literally means "four seasons" and most likely refers to the incident of the game in which wandering souls cause flowers of all four seasons to bloom out of season. Her name and theming also seems to take inspiration from the obscure Chinese god, 四季花神 (lit. “Four Seasons Flower God”), but this is most likely a coincidence and nothing more. Another probable coincidence is that it could have been inspired by the Japanese name for the quarter sessions (old English courts that were held 4 times a year) is 四季法廷 (shiki hotei lit. “four seasons court”). Eiki is related to the seasons because, obviously, the game deals with flowers of every season blooming suddenly because of a vast amount of souls inhabiting them due to an event that happens every sixty years. Sixty year periods (a sexegenary cycle) was a common way of measuring and marking time in ancient China and Japan. It’s associated with the seasons and isn’t used much in modern times unless a major event (usually a war) occurs. This makes sense giving the reasoning for so much human souls appearing in Higan is apparently due to an event that happens in the Outside World about every sixty years (probably a tragedy such as a war that would cause death at a large scale). PoFV was released on August 15th, 2005. World War II ended on September 2nd, 1945, shortly after Japan surrendered on August 14th of that year, days after the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. PoFV was released almost exactly sixty years after Japan’s surrender on August 14th, 1945. This implies that the previous flower blooming incident in Gensokyo occured because of the mass death that happened due to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. What happened in the Outside World on August 2005 to cause PoFV’s flower blooming is a mystery, but it's most likely some sort of war. Getting back on track, Eiki's title, ¨Yamaxanadu (ヤマザナドゥ)” combines both Yama (the Hindu god of death and the old name for Japan's judge of hell, Enma) and Xanadu (the summer palace of Kublai Khan which in modern days is just a synonym for ¨paradise”). Thus, it would translate to Yama (Judge) of Paradise” which is extremely similar to Eiki's other title, Supreme Judge of Paradise (楽園の最高裁判長). However, in Touhou, "yama" is a species and not an individual. It isn't reserved for Enma-O. Eiki's omake.txt and PMiSS article reveal that "Yamaxanadu" is not a unique title, it just goes to the yama currently in charge of Gensokyo (Eiki). This implies that many yama were assigned to Gensokyo before Eiki and that Eiki herself won't be Gensokyo's yama forever. A lot of people, even Japanese fans, mistakenly think that Eiki is based on the main judge of Japanese hell, Enma-O (閻魔王 lit. "King Enma" also known as Emma or Enma-Daio 閻魔大王 lit. "Great King Enma" and used to be referred to as Yama). Eiki is not Enma, she is never called Enma in the series at all. Enma used to be called Yama because he's actually based on the Hindu god of death, Yama (यम), because Buddhism, as you probably already know, originated in the Indian subcontinent and was heavily influenced by Hinduism. Enma is the fifth of the Ten Kings (Ju-o 十王) of Hell (Naraka/Jigoku) that judge the souls of the deceased. In Touhou, each of these hell kings is still called a yama (species, not capitalized).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332838
cont.
Western fans often make the mistake of calling Eiki "the Yama" or "Yama" as if she's the only yama when, in fact, she isn't. No one calls her "Yama" or "the Yama" in the Japanese fandom and ZUN himself never refers to Eiki this way, they always use her name or "[a] yama". As mentioned before, Eiki is not Enma and lots of fans, Western and Japanese, mistakenly refer to her as so. First we must understand the Ten Kings of Hell to progress this discussion. Each of the Ten Kings of Hell has true form as an epithet of a bodhisattva (bosatsu), wisdom king (myo-o), or buddha (nyorai/butsu). The kings and their true forms are as follows:
Shinko-o: Fudo Myo-o
Shoko-o: Shaka Nyorai
Sotei-o: Monju Bosatsu
Gokan-o: Fugen Bosatsu
Enma-o: Jizo Bosatsu
Henjyo-o: Miroku Bosatsu
Taizan-o: Yakushi Nyorai
Byodo-o: Kannon Bosatsu
Toshi-o: Seishi Bosatsu
Gototenrin-o: Amida Nyorai
Enma, being the 5th king of hell, is supposed to secretly be Jizo Bosatsu, but in Touhou Eiki is revealed to have been a simple Jizo statue, not Jizo himself, reborn as a yama. This is said to be true for MOST yama according to PMiSS (by the way, besides the Ten Kings, there are hundreds or even thousands of other yama who work in the myriads of hells that exist). PMiSS uses "most" because it's obvious that the Ten Kings of Hell are not Jizo statues, but bodhisattvas, wisdom kings, and buddhas in their own right. Eiki's own article in PMiSS which comes right after the article on yama does not name her as one of the Ten Kings of Hell at all. Thus, contrary to popular belief, Eiki is not Enma at all, but just Gensokyo's yama who was born from a regular Jizo statue. Moving on, Eiki, as a yama, is part of an organization called the Ministry of Right and Wrong (是非曲直庁). This organization formed in hell as a way to properly account for and judge every human soul who didn't immediately enter heaven upon their body dying. According to PMiSS, the organization is headed by ten yama (obviously, the Ten Kings of Hell). Below these ten yama are the numerous other lesser yama who control shinigami to reap human souls and kishin (鬼神) who control oni to torture human souls. Eiki is part of that lower class of yama. With the introduction of Hecatia, it's revealed that there are even higher powers than even the Ten Kings of Hell in the organization. Hecatia is a goddess of hell and is one of the ringleaders of the organization. This makes her above Eiki in terms of influence and power, which should answer your original question. The other leaders at the top of the organization seem to be elite kishin with power that rivals Hecatia's power. She opposes their direction for the organization but, ultimately, chose not to fight with them. She's distant from the organization now it seems but she still holds her status. She herself says that no one in hell dare challenges her because she's simply the strongest. The inhabitants of hell, as Hecatia describes them, are anarchical and power hungry. Power is status in hell and she describes hell's society as a power-based meritocracy. She also talks about powerful evil beings in hell who have the intent to destroy Gensokyo and the universe, but she worries little about them because she knows they would never pursue such goals for fear that they would be confronted by her. Basically, Hecatia is super OP and is basically the strongest character that ZUN has introduced in Touhou and she will probably remain so unless he literally puts in God or something ridiculous like that. By the way, kishin (鬼神) are a type of wrathful Japanese Buddhist god. The ones at the top of the organization are most likely these gods but the ones who order the oni to torture souls below the Ten Kings are probably just super strong oni as kishin is made up of the characters for oni (鬼) and god (神).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332848
cont.
Right, now let's move on to Eiki's spell cards.
>徳の説示 (Charge of Virtue)
This is Eiki's charge attack in PoFV. 説示 (setsuji) is a term used in Japanese courts to describe the action of a judge explaining or instructing a case to a jury in terms of its legal implications. It literally means "instructions" or "explanations". It also, in religious (Buddhist) terms, means the explanation, demonstration, or teaching of a religious practice. "Charge" in English has many definitions, but in this case that Japanese term perfectly applies to definition of "an official instruction, especially one given by a judge to a jury regarding points of law". 徳 (literally just "virtue") probably refers to a judge's (and yama's) ability to discern right from wrong and make the right, benevolent decision.
>弾幕裁判 (Danmaku Trial)
Eiki's EX attack in PoFV. Touhou wiki translates 裁判 as "judgement" for some reason even though it's more analogous to "trial". Danmaku has obvious connotations. Trial in this sense refers to a court trial. The name is also likely wordplay on 弾劾裁判 (Dangai Saibansho lit. "Court/Trial of Impeachment"), a Japanese court that impeaches the position of a judge if they are found guilty of corruption or any other wrongdoing (it sounds like Danmaku Saibansho, the name of the card pronounced in Japanese).
>罪符「彷徨える大罪」(Punishment Sign "Wandering Mortal Sin")
This spell card is self explanatory and doesn't really have any lore to it. 罪 by itself can be translated as "guilt", "crime"/"sin", or "punishment/conviction" and it isn't clear which the card refers to. Since Eiki is a yama (judge) I decided that "punishment" fits best. 大罪 (taizai lit. "great sin") is used to refer to terrible sins and is most close to the Western concept of a grave or mortal sin. 彷徨 (wandering) probably refers to sinful souls making its way across the Sanzu towards Higan, particularly those who didn't have the money to pay for a ferry across the river. Or it refers to the lost souls who poured over into Gensokyo, inhabiting flowers and making them bloom.
>審判「ラストジャッジメント」(Judgement "Last Judgment")
"Last Judgement" is in katakana, meaning it refers to the paiting "The Last Judgment" by Michael Angelo. The painting references the apocalypse and the Second Coming of Christ, which is considered by some Christian denominations to be the final and eternal judgement of humans by God. Eiki, being a yama, similarly makes a "last judgement" when deciding if a soul is to be sent to the realm of hell, realm of gaki, realm of animals, realm of humans, realm of asura, or realm of heaven. Eiki also has that specific painting by Michael Angelo for her spell card backgrounds in StB. This isn't the first time ZUN used "The Last Judgement" as a motif. It was also the name of the stage 5 theme in MS probably because that game had heavy influence from the SMT series, which deals with themes from Christianity a lot. The danmaku in this card consists of Eiki sending copious amounts of wooden rods towards you while firing seven lasers. Three red ones to the left, three blue ones to the right, and one giant purple one in the middle. Red=Guilty, Blue=Innocent, and Purple=The Judgement.
>虚言「タン・オブ・ウルフ」(Lie "Tongue of Wolf")
This spell card references the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", arguably Greek storyteller Aesop's most famous tale. The tale concerns a shepherd boy who repeatedly tricks nearby villagers into thinking wolves are attacking his flock. When a wolf actually does appear and the boy again calls for help, the villagers believe that it is another false alarm and the sheep are eaten by the wolf. This gave rise of the idiom "to cry wolf" which means to give a false alarm or to lie. A common thing Japanese parents tell to children who they suspect are lying is that "if you tell a lie, the yama of hell will pull out your tongue".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332861
cont.
>審判「十王裁判」(Judgement "Trial of the Ten Kings)
If you are not sent immediately to heaven upon dying, you must traverse the underworld in order to be judged by the Ten Kings of Hell. The danmaku in this spell card comes in ten waves, each corresponding to a king. The fifth wave uses radial lasers and is different from the others because Eiki takes her theming from Enma-O (the fifth King of Hell) although she is not Enma herself. The last three waves are also different from the rest because meeting with the last three Kings of Hell means you are already going to hell. Taizan-O, the 7th judge, is the most important judge aside from Enma-O as he is the final say on whether you enter hell or not. The next three judges will meet you in hell and decide what your punishment is in there, which is why the last three waves of danmaku are so different.
The process of judgement by the Ten Kings is described in detail here:
http://yokai.com/meido
>審判「ギルティ・オワ・ノットギルティ」(Judgment "Guilty or Not Guilty")
This card is a harder version of [Judgement "The Last Judgement"] from PoFV with bubble danmaku taking the place of wooden rod danmaku. "Guilty or Not Guilty" refers to the two different verdicts in a court; it's a common expression in English. Aya, in her comment on this spell card, also uses an extremely complicated idiom that has some very minor relation to Eiki but I'm not gonna bother to explain it, you can find a Japanese explanation here and read it (if you can read Japanese, of course):
https://seesaawiki.jp/toho-motoneta_2nd/d/%BF%B3%C8%BD%A1%D6%A5%AE%A5%EB%A5%C6%A5%A3%A1%A6%A5%AA%A5%EF%A1%A6%A5%CE%A5%C3%A5%C8%A5%AE%A5%EB%A5%C6%A5%A3%A1%D7
>審判「浄頗梨審判 -射命丸文-」(Judgement "Cleansed Crystal Judgement -Aya Shameimaru-")
浄頗梨 ("cleansed crystal") refers to the (Johari no Kagami lit. "Cleansing/Purifying Crystal Mirror"). The yama of hell use these mirrors to show a person their past life and past sins. In game, Eiki summons another Aya (obviously a reflection) to attack and Aya's own theme, "Wind God Girl" plays. This also perhaps is a reference to a technique in psychology called the "Johari Window" (named after creators JOseph Luft and HARRIngton Ingham) which helps a patient better understand themselves. In Japanese, it's called "ジョハリの窓" using the kanji 窓 (johari lit. "cleanse/purify"), the same kanji that's used for the name of a yama's mirror.
>妖花符「バタフライストーム閻魔笏」(Spirit Flower Sign "Butterfly Storm Yama Shaku")
Shared with Yuyuko Saigyouji. Yuyuko fires butterflies while Eiki shoots out weird, glittering rod-shaped danmaku that destroys other bullets and breaks them down into smaller bullets that spread out. A 笏 (shaku) is a wooden rod that Japanese officials used to write notes on. The Kings of Hell and yama are all depicted wielding shaku (during their trials they use it to write notes on). In Touhou, all yama possess a mirror (Johari no Kagami lit. "浄玻の璃鏡 lit. "Cleansed Crystal Mirror") and a shaku (悔悟の棒/Kaigou no Bo lit. "Rod of Remorse"). Also, Yuyuko was appointed princess of the Netherworld (冥界 Meikai lit. "Dark World") by the yama (Eiki was probably one of the yama who reached that decision). The weird reflective danmaku that Eiki shoots are probably shaku, specifically, the yama's shaku (Rods of Remorse). In PoFV these rods were orange/red/yellow instead. 妖 in the spell card references PCB's title or Yuyuko herself and can mean many things, but it's most likely "spirit/ghost". 花 (flower) appears in the titles of all of Eiki's spell cards and refers to PoFV's title and Eiki's connection to flowers.
風花符「ミシャグジ様の是非」(Wind Flower Sign "Mishaguji-sama's Right and Wrong")
Shared with Suwako Moriya. Suwako controls the curse/fertility gods called the Mishaguji (ミシャグジ). 是非 ("right and wrong") has an obvious connection to Eiki's status a yama judge. 風 (wind) in the title reference's MoF's title. Once again, Eiki fires her rods which break down Suwako's green danmaku into small fragments.
風花符「オンバシラ裁判」(Wind Flower Sign "Onbashira Trial")
Shared with Kanako Yasaka. Kanako wears onbashira (オンバシラ) and a great deal of them are placed around Moriya Shrine (onbashira are giant wooden pillars that harbor religious significance in Shinto; a great deal of onbashira are placed near the local shrines of Suwa and four famous onbashira surround the Suwa Grand Shrine, the inspiration and identity of the Moriya Shrine) (this is also why Kanako specifically dawns four onbashira on her back). 風 (wind) refers to MoF's title and Kanako's status as a god of weather while 裁判 (trial) has obvious connections to Eiki. For the final time in VD, Eiki shoots her rods that break down Kanako's thick red lasers that fall from the sky (these are supposed to symbolize onbashira) into smaller danmaku fragments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332861
cont.
>審判「十王裁判」(Judgement "Trial of the Ten Kings)
If you are not sent immediately to heaven upon dying, you must traverse the underworld in order to be judged by the Ten Kings of Hell. The danmaku in this spell card comes in ten waves, each corresponding to a king. The fifth wave uses radial lasers and is different from the others because Eiki takes her theming from Enma-O (the fifth King of Hell) although she is not Enma herself. The last three waves are also different from the rest because meeting with the last three Kings of Hell means you are already going to hell. Taizan-O, the 7th judge, is the most important judge aside from Enma-O as he is the final say on whether you enter hell or not. The next three judges will meet you in hell and decide what your punishment is in there, which is why the last three waves of danmaku are so different.
The process of judgement by the Ten Kings is described in detail here:
http://yokai.com/meido
>審判「ギルティ・オワ・ノットギルティ」(Judgment "Guilty or Not Guilty")
This card is a harder version of [Judgement "The Last Judgement"] from PoFV with bubble danmaku taking the place of wooden rod danmaku. "Guilty or Not Guilty" refers to the two different verdicts in a court; it's a common expression in English. Aya, in her comment on this spell card, also uses an extremely complicated idiom that has some very minor relation to Eiki but I'm not gonna bother to explain it, you can find a Japanese explanation here and read it (if you can read Japanese, of course):
https://seesaawiki.jp/toho-motoneta_2nd/d/%BF%B3%C8%BD%A1%D6%A5%AE%A5%EB%A5%C6%A5%A3%A1%A6%A5%AA%A5%EF%A1%A6%A5%CE%A5%C3%A5%C8%A5%AE%A5%EB%A5%C6%A5%A3%A1%D7
>審判「浄頗梨審判 -射命丸文-」(Judgement "Cleansed Crystal Judgement -Aya Shameimaru-")
浄頗梨 ("cleansed crystal") refers to the (Johari no Kagami lit. "Cleansing/Purifying Crystal Mirror"). The yama of hell use these mirrors to show a person their past life and past sins. In game, Eiki summons another Aya (obviously a reflection) to attack and Aya's own theme, "Wind God Girl" plays. This also perhaps is a reference to a technique in psychology called the "Johari Window" (named after creators JOseph Luft and HARRIngton Ingham) which helps a patient better understand themselves. In Japanese, it's called "ジョハリの窓" using the kanji 窓 (johari lit. "cleanse/purify"), the same kanji that's used for the name of a yama's mirror.
>妖花符「バタフライストーム閻魔笏」(Spirit Flower Sign "Butterfly Storm Yama Shaku")
Shared with Yuyuko Saigyouji. Yuyuko fires butterflies while Eiki shoots out weird, glittering rod-shaped danmaku that destroys other bullets and breaks them down into smaller bullets that spread out. A 笏 (shaku) is a wooden rod that Japanese officials used to write notes on. The Kings of Hell and yama are all depicted wielding shaku (during their trials they use it to write notes on). In Touhou, all yama possess a mirror (Johari no Kagami lit. "浄玻の璃鏡 lit. "Cleansed Crystal Mirror") and a shaku (悔悟の棒/Kaigou no Bo lit. "Rod of Remorse"). Also, Yuyuko was appointed princess of the Netherworld (冥界 Meikai lit. "Dark World") by the yama (Eiki was probably one of the yama who reached that decision). The weird reflective danmaku that Eiki shoots are probably shaku, specifically, the yama's shaku (Rods of Remorse). In PoFV these rods were orange/red/yellow instead. 妖 in the spell card references PCB's title or Yuyuko herself and can mean many things, but it's most likely "spirit/ghost". 花 (flower) appears in the titles of all of Eiki's spell cards and refers to PoFV's title and Eiki's connection to flowers.
>風花符「ミシャグジ様の是非」(Wind Flower Sign "Mishaguji-sama's Right and Wrong")
Shared with Suwako Moriya. Suwako controls the curse/fertility gods called the Mishaguji (ミシャグジ). 是非 ("right and wrong") has an obvious connection to Eiki's status a yama judge. 風 (wind) in the title reference's MoF's title. Once again, Eiki fires her rods which break down Suwako's green danmaku into small fragments.
>風花符「オンバシラ裁判」(Wind Flower Sign "Onbashira Trial")
Shared with Kanako Yasaka. Kanako wears onbashira (オンバシラ) and a great deal of them are placed around Moriya Shrine (onbashira are giant wooden pillars that harbor religious significance in Shinto; a great deal of onbashira are placed near the local shrines of Suwa and four famous onbashira surround the Suwa Grand Shrine, the inspiration and identity of the Moriya Shrine) (this is also why Kanako specifically dawns four onbashira on her back). 風 (wind) refers to MoF's title and Kanako's status as a god of weather while 裁判 (trial) has obvious connections to Eiki. For the final time in VD, Eiki shoots her rods that break down Kanako's thick red lasers that fall from the sky (these are supposed to symbolize onbashira) into smaller danmaku fragments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332891
final cont.
>天知る 地知る 我知る 人知る (Heaven Knows, Earth Knows, I Know, You Know)
Eiki's "motto" in PoFV. Yama use their mirror to expose the past life of a person, so their sins are always known and cannot be hidden. The expression comes from the collection of biographies "後漢書 (Book of the Later Han)" in which the knowledgeable Yang Zen states "天知、神知、我知、子知 (heaven knows, the gods know, I know, and you know)" when a friend of his wants to keep a secret (the saying basically states that secrets don't exist and everything will be figured out eventually).
Music Theme
>六十年目の東方裁判 ～Fate of Sixty Years (Eastern Judgment in the Sixtieth Year ~ Fate of Sixty Years)
The theme references the incident that happens to Gensokyo every sixty years in which a event in the Outside World causes souls to overflow into Gensokyo, leading to them to inhabit flowers and cause them to bloom prematurely. 東方裁判 (Touhou Saiban lit. "Eastern Judgment") could be a reference to 東京裁判 (Tokyo Saiban lit. "Tokyo Judgment"), the Japanese name for the Tokyo Tribunal/Tokyo Trial, a military trial against the leaders of the Empire of Japan that took place on April 29, 1946 in order to convict them of war crimes and crimes against humanity. As stated before, PoFV was released and takes place almost exactly one year after WWII, implying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the cause of the previous sixty year cycle event.
Titles
>楽園の最高裁判長 (Supreme Judge of Paradise)
Supreme Judge = Yama
Paradise = Gensokyo
>口うるさい有難いお話 (NaggingHelpful Lecture)
Eiki's lectures are said to be long, boring, and annoying.
>地獄の最高裁判長 (Supreme Judge of Hell)
Self explanatory.

Now, finally, her design. Eiki wears a dark blue top with a black skirt. The dark blue top has a "mandarin collar" (the generic name for a Chinese shirt with a noticable notch on the collar) probably because Japan's depiction of the yama came from China. Her undershirt is a white long sleeve and peppered throughout her outfit are juxtaposing red and white ribbons. These ribbons birth and death (in Japanese culture, white is the color of death and red is the color of birth). Her white undershirt and black skirt also serve as motif of the "black vs. white"/"wrong vs. right" theme that emphasizes her status as a yama judge. Her hat is just the typical headwear of yama with frills added and she has golden shoulder pads that serve to bolster her high status. Usually, the hat of a yama is supposed to have the character for king (王) on it but Eiki's hat has a scale (a traditional symbol of judgment and the symbol of Lady Justice) on it. Her top is dark blue because ZUN probably wanted to make her invoke the image of a police officer or other law enforcement official. She's carrying her Rod of Remorse, the Touhou name for a yama's shaku. It looks like gibberish but the rod contains characters that are legible, 非 (which means "wrong"). Since you write notes on shaku, Eiki probably wrote down the sins or wrongdoings of a person on there. I could only make out that and what looks to be 乂 ("cut/mow" or "subdue/govern"). I have no idea what the other symbols read or if they're supposed to represent kanji at all. It seems Eiki was originally supposed to be Enma-O but ZUN retconned that with PMiSS and OSP in which Komachi states that Eiki was a just a Jizo statue in the past and not the actual Jizo Bosatsu like Enma-O actually is.
>>20322366
Medicine is always nice. I'll do this one next then.
>>20327357
Okina is extremely complicated and is possibly the character with the most background/lore ever and she's new. I'll do it when I have time, probably after Medicine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310462
I forgot Mamizou's titles
>化け狸十変化(Bake-danuki with Ten Transformations)
Mamizou is a bake-danuki. She has 10 spell cards in TD's extra stage.
>僅有絶無の外来妖怪 (Vanishingly Rare Foreign Youkai)
Mamizou is from Sado which is in the outside world. She is one of three legendary bake-danuki so that makes her pretty rare. Tanuki are also known to be great at hiding due to their transformative abilities.
>佐渡の二ッ岩 (Futatsuiwa of Sado)
Self explanatory.
>捕らぬ狸のディスガイザー (The Uncaught Tanuki Disguiser)
At that point in FS no human knew that Mamizou was actually a bake-danuki and not a human. Also, the title is referencing the saying "捕らぬ狸の皮算用 (counting the profit from an uncaptured tanuki's fur)" which means that you should not makeplansthatdependon something goodhappeningbefore youknowthat it hasactuallyhappened.
>いつも驚きを提供する化け狸 (The Bake-Danuki Who Always Provides Surprises)
Mamizou is always deceiving and bamboozling people. This title is also supposedly supposed to sound like a corporate slogan, highlighting Mamizou's ulterior motives under her friendly and harmless appearance.
>侵略せよ！宇宙妖怪狸 (Invade! The Youkai Tanuki from Space)
Mamizou is connected to aliens thanks to Nue, read more about that on my previous posts about her.
>変幻自在で喰えない化け狸 (Phantasmagoric and Shrewd Bake-Danuki)
変幻自在 = ever-changing appearance but it's usually translated as "phantasmagoric" in English; referring to Mamizou's nature as a bake-danuki who can change form at will
喰えない = another way of writing 食えない (shrewd); refers to Mamizou's cunning

[Anonymous No.]

Thank you lore master. I hope to see the explanation of "Heavenly Jade Dipper" soon.

[Anonymous No.]

Bless you. Is there a collection of all this wisdom somewhere? The wiki is surprisingly thin on the lore and this is the most interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20327357
People here already wrote shitton of lore about Okina. Just search warosu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20327357
Player 2 junko

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332848
>By the way, kishin (鬼神) are a type of wrathful Japanese Buddhist god
Ironic then that Sagume isn't very wrothful. In fact, despite being the Kishin, she has a bit of angelic motif going on I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332998
I'm not gonna finish Okina anytime soon so I'll just answer this question now, it's an easy one anyway.
>天空璋 (Tenkuushou)
天空 tenkuu = the heavens (the presence of the character 天 always signifies divinity so translating it to just "sky" or "firmament" is a disservice to the title; 天空 literally means "heavenly sky" but such a translation is redundant as "the heavens" and "sky" mean the same thing in English)
(note: 天空 tiankong lit. "heavenly emptiness/void" in Chinese is also a concept in Confucianism; tiankong is the great fluctuation of qi (force) in the universe responsible for its birth and maturation) (this has nothing to do with the game, however, and was likely not even in ZUN's mind at all)
璋 shou = dipper/ladle; 璋 comes from the Chinese word 璋瓚 (zhangzan), a jade libation ladle used in relgious ceremonies
(璋, when used and pronounced as たま tama, is a jade shaku) (that has nothing to do with the title though and is not what ZUN meant)
In game files reveal that a prototype title was 天星璋 (tenseishou lit. "Heavenly Star Dipper"), which obviously references the Big Dipper, the symbol of Matarajin. ZUN also talked about the title in the HSiFS interview. It was gonna be 天空障 (Tenkuushou lit. "Heavenly Sky Hinderance") (and yes it's still pronunced "Tenkuushou") as well at one point but ZUN decided against it because that title looked odd. 障 (hinder) refers to 障碍神 (literally "hindrace obstacle god"). One of Matarajin's many roles was as a god of obstacles/hindrances/pestilence that must be worshipped in order to remove said hindrances/obstacles/pestilences. When ZUN made the new title (the one he would keep, 天空璋) he specifically said he kept the 王 (king) radical in mind. He never revealed why in the interview though. The radical for 璋 is actually 玉 (jade) though, but that makes sense in Japanese because 玉 and 王 are interchangeable. 玉 (jade) has nothing to do with the title yet ZUN put it there because it's interchangeable with 王 (king). Why would ZUN want to reference 王 in the title specifically? "Kings" have nothing to do with HSiFS, or so you think. Okina, being Matarajin, is actually connected to that radical. You see, as I've said earlier in Eiki's analysis, the hats of the yama (specifically the Ten Kings of Hell) usually are inscribed with the character 王. One of Matarajin's many forms is that of Taizan Fukun, otherwise known as Taizan-O, the 7th King of Hell. When I go over Okina (god knows when) I'll talk all about it. Anyway, in the interview ZUN basically confirms that "Tenkuushou" refers to the Big Dipper (which is Matarajin's symbol). The jade in the title literally means nothing, it's there because ZUN wanted to allude to the 王 (king) radical for some unknown reason that I just presented the strongest theory to.
Here's the full interview by the way
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons_Interview_with_ZUN
>>20333165
No English site or wiki has this level of depth, unfortunately. The Japanese and Chinese wikis go into more detail than their Western counterparts but you, of course, have to know the language. By the way, the ancient Chinese and Japanese used the Big Dipper to forecast the seasons (pic related). This is why Okina is associated with the four seasons, it wasn't just something random that ZUN put in.
>>20333319
Her last name is spelled 稀神 (rare god) not 鬼神 (oni god). They're both pronounced the same but mean different things.
>>20333301
Please don't kusopost in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20333349
I dont give shit how much backstory okina have shes shit character and i dont like her

[Anonymous No.]

>>20333791
Don't ruin this for us

>>20333349
Thank you again, lore master. So the title only refers to Okina and nothing to do with her dancers? Damn, I was having an idea of drawing Mai and Satono dancing on Ursa Major. Sounds nice, innit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20333791
Fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>20333349
Thank you so much. We're really looking forward to your Okina dump. I assume the author of these posts is you. I tried to read about Matarajin when people were able to figure out who the boss was from the jewel case silhouette but there is next to no material about him in English. I would be interested to know about Tokoyo no Kami, and Matarajin's relation to that cult and the Hata clan.

[Anonymous No.]

Can I get some thoughts on this?
In PMiSS Hieda makes this remark about Mystia:

She is not often seen during the day and there are few witness reports, but it is said that she is a humanoid youkai with large wings (*1).
1: If she would have been sighted in this form first, she might have not been called a night sparrow.

This implies that Mystia had previous forms, either through shapeshifting or reincarnation. If this is common to all Gensokyo’s cuties, the form each youkai appears in now is different than precious possibly more frightening incarnations.
If this is true, it explains why some 2hus are described as wanting to eat each other and humans. The little girl appearance is like the Siren that seems appealing only to lure humans to their death. The cute facade is merely a trap.

That, or it shows an effort on the part of the youkai to pacify their former bestial natures and to live civilized like humans. This would mesh with their readiness to accept the spell card rules that made combat more fair. Maybe becoming more humanoid is a step towards purifying themselves of their “mythical” nature which may be prone to disappear as humans on the Outside relegate more and more objects to the realm of myth.
Am I way off or am I just now realising something obvious that everyone already knew?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20333349
This was incredibly interesting. I need to increase my Japanese studies asap

[Anonymous No.]

>>20336264
Nah your fairly on the mark, mind you gensokyo literally exists so youkai can continue living since they have massive issues in a lot of places in the outside world. Them shifting so they don't require the mysticism of their lore could be argued as an adaptation so it is simply easier to survive.

[Anonymous No.]

So I have a completely different question, why is Remilia and Flandre so hilariously powerful even compared to most other youkai when by all rights they arn't a legendary vampire like mamizou is literally one of the three strongest tanuki, or the big four oni?

[Anonymous No.]

Are there any interesting tidbits and connections involving Miko that you guys can tell me about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20336468
Vampires are just strong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20336653
Not to mention they're probably one of the few types of Yokai that can generally get some amount of fear and recognition from the outside world, which probably adds onto the powerlevel.
Werewolves got the short end of the stick since people only think of them as dumb brutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20336574
Not as cute, loving, or as sexy as Byakuren.

>>20336468
Considering most vampires in modern fiction are typically based around Dracula, they typically use the traits popularized by him such as super strength, speed, haunting beauty, the ability to turn into animals, dust and fog, are immortal (unless slain through specific means), and can turn other people into lesser vampire thralls by biting them. However, some of the less popular abilities that Dracula had such as the ability to control animals, the ability to shrink to fit through small spaces and other shit such as his really contrived weaknesses like being unable to move past running water, having their powers only work at night (instead of dying from sunlight) and being only able to enter buildings if let in are also unused by modern fiction writers.

There isn't exactly one specific quality vampires have due to there being so many different kinds of vampires being described all over the world and that the idea of vampire-like monsters means many kinds of mythological creatures tend to be called vampires as a simplification, as the idea of vampire creatures have existed since the rise of early civilization.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20337025
That being said, ancient creatures that could be considered proto-vampires would be those found in Mesopotamian cultures such as the Lilith/Lilitu of Sumer that was described to be infertile, beautiful maidens who, after choosing a lover would never let them go, and the Lilitu would be described as bird-footed demons that were sexual predators who feeded on the blood of babies and their mothers. This idea of hauntingly beautiful creatures that feed on the blood of people they manipulate into falling for them is very, very old. Another example of ancient proto-vampires would be the Babylonian goddess Lamashtu, being described as the malicious Daughter of Heaven who was a blood-sucking creature with a lion's head and the body of a donkey. In Judaic traditions, it was believed Lilith was able to transform into animals, such as cats in order to charm her victims. Other examples of proto-vampires would be the Greek Empusa and Lamia. The former were bronze-footed daughters of Hecate that seduced men by transforming into young, beautiful women only to suck their blood as they slept and the Lamia being the daughter of King Belus who was smited by Hera who preys on young children and sucks their blood at night.

The idea of beautiful seductive creatures of the night that drink blood may sound similar to succubi, but that's primarily because both mythological creatures shared similar roles in mythologies to begin with, as seduction and the hunger for blood are primary traits for vampires.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20337104
the Lilith from jewish literature is also known for being Adam's first wive, before Eva, who after copulating with Samael ran away from Heaven. Some people consider her as a succubi, since she is known for how she is skilled at seducing men

[Anonymous No.]

>>20336264
It's basically confirmed that the youkai of Gensokyo can switch between monstrous and humanoid forms. Take Mamizou's followers, for example. They can appear as bake-danuki or young looking girls. We also see youkai like the okuri-inu (which are youkai yamainu; an extinct Japanese wolf better known as the Honshu wolf) take the form of animals or, like Kagerou (who is also a Honshu wolf), take the form of a human. Most youkai are shapeshifters anyway, this shouldn't be anything too surprising.
>>20336468
Vampires are just extremely powerful in physical and magical abilities. PMiSS makes it clear that their strength allows them to uproot trees with one hand and speed through the human village in the blink of an eye and they can turn into bats or mist on command. But, they have lots of common weaknesses. Too many to name. Since Remilia and Flandre are the only vampires in Gensokyo it's possible that they're just powerful individual (also, Remilia claims ancestry from Vlad Tepes AKA Dracula, the strongest vampire, although she may be lying), Akyuu only had them to base the entire species entry off after all. Kurumi is also a vampire but isn't that strong, if you consider PC-98 to be relevant. They get decimated by spiritual attacks though, so they're no match for miko, gods, hermits and celestials. But I doubt they're as lightning fast as tengu or as ridiculously strong as oni. Their power lies in their jack-of-all-trades disposition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20319173
An alternate explanation is her ability to smith tools is what amounts to her kind's version of reproduction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20319928
The douji and Okina have almost nothing to do with Taoism, by the way. The dances that the douji perform are just typical noh/sarugaku/kagura and tengu-odoshi (tengu placating) along with hane-o-tori (plucking feathers). The Big Dipper is an extremely common symbol in ALL Chinese/Japanese religions. As far as I know Matarajin and his cohorts are not connected to Taoism unless you take into account his form of Taizan Fukun (Taishan Fujun in Chinese) which was worshipped by some Chinese folk Taoists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20338605
Thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>20322366
Medicine actually has some pretty neat inspirations. First off, her name (メディスン メランコリー / Medicine Melancholy) is a direct reference to American author Ray Bradbury's short story, "A Medicine For Melancholy". In fact, her whole design seems to be connected to that story so I'll start with that first. In the story, a girl named Camillia Wilkes falls deathly ill and is unable to get better. Her family tries to find a cure and goes through many lists of medicinal herbs and flowers including stone parsley, opobalsam, and pontic valerian as suggested by a Gypsy. The Gypsy suggests that Camillia has melancholia (depression). Then, a dustman comes towards the family and tells them that they must leave her out on a night of a full moon. The family obliges and the girl is left outside at night under the full moon. The dustman comes to her playing a lute and Camillia doesn't seem to recognize him. The dustman calls himself Bosco after the famous Italian priest, Saint Bosco, who roamed the streets caring for homeless children. He then has sex with her. Now morning, the girl murmurs in her sleep, "a medicine...for melancholy" and wakes up just as her parents approach her. She seems to be ecstatic, rosy-cheeked and playful. She asks them to dance with her much to their disbelief. The story ends. Okay, so there's A LOT to explain here. First of all, the word "melancholy" is derived from one of the four humors (four bodily fluids that classical and medieval people believed existed and influenced health). The four humors are black bile (melan chole; melancholic), yellow bile (xanthe cole; choleric), phlegm (phlegma; phlegmatic), and blood (haima; sanguine). An excess of melan chole (literally "black bile") is thought to make a person depressive, this is where there word "melancholy (sad, depressed)" originates. According to Greek and medieval sources, in order to stop depressive symptoms one must empty the body of black bile or balance it out with the opposite, blood (sanguine) (note that sanguine now means "happy" in English). In order to raise sanguine levels one must dance, listen to music, or have sex. This is what happens to Camillia in the story as the dustman plays the lute for her and then has sex with her. She wakes up happy and wants to dance with her parents, cured of her melancholia by making her sanguine levels go up. This is tied with full moon symbolism, as the Greek titan of the moon Selene is associated with sex and love. The humors are Greek concepts but are suspected to come from Egypt and the story makes various references to Egypt, Egyptian medicine, and mummies. The Egyptian goddess Isis became associated with the moon thanks to connections with the Greek Artemis and another Egyptian goddess, Bastet, the deity of fertility. In both Greek and Egyptian cultures the moon was connected to femininity and sex. Thus, when the dustman suggests that Camillia be put under the light of the full moon he is saying that she should present herself (for sex). He calls the coming full moon night "Bosco's eve" and when he visits her in moonlight he calls himself Bosco. Bosco was a Italian saint that roamed the streets of Italy, helping poor children. The dustman calls himself a saint because he's about help cure Camillia of her melancholia by having sex with her in the middle of the night. The allusion is perfect because Bosco was also known to care for those of poor health with herbs and other technique, he could be considered a sort of travelling doctor. Camillia calls the dustman himself a doctor during their encounter. With that out of the way, the cure for melancholia is revealed to be the moon or, in other words, sex. The medicine for melancholy is love.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20339447
cont.
In the story, Camillia is described as "pale" with "lilac eyes" and with hair like a "creek of gold". In literature, lilac refers to the color blue, not purple. Medicine, sure enough, is pale, has blue eyes, and has gold hair. Even further strengthening this connection is the fact that Camillia is described again in the story, this time as a "large, pale Bartolemy doll". A Bartolemy doll, better known as a Bartholomew doll or Bartholomew baby, was a type of wooden doll sold at the Bartholomew Fair, an old English charter fair that operated from medieval times to well into the 1800s. This is why Medicine is a doll, because ZUN took inspiration from this short story. Also, the fair was named after Saint Bartholomew. Saint Bartholomew is famous for having been flayed. The most striking features of him in art are his black hair and red, exposed body. Medicine herself wears only red and black. This is either a reference to Saint Bartholomew or to black bile (melancholy; sadness) and blood (sanguine; happiness). As stated before the cure for melancholia was to balance the levels of black bile by increasing the levels of blood (sanguine) through music, dance, or sex. Medicine also has four crosses on her clothes, one on the middle of her dress, one on the bottom of her skirt, and two on each of her sleeves. These four crosses could represent the four humors. ZUN chose crosses to represent the universal medicinal symbol (a cross) or to reference the Christian cross (which connects when you consider both Saint Bartholomew and Saint Bosco). It likely is supposed to connect to both. Medicine is heavily connected to the poisonous lily of the valley flowers (called スズラン suzuran in Japanese). She calls the lilies of the valley that she utilizes for poison "スーさん (Su-san, a cute proper name made up by her to sound like "suzuran)". She personifies and talks to "Su-san" so much in PoFV that fans wonder if she's actually referring to the flowers or to the little nameless doll that flies next to her, which is why many fans call that little doll "Su-san". Medicine manipulates poison as her ability and the favorite poison of her choice is the poison of the lily of the valley, a toxic mixture of glycosides, namely convallatoxin, that inhibits the heart's ability to pump blood. ZUN chose to associate Medicine with that flower due to many reasons. First of all, Agatha Christie, one of ZUN's favorite authors, calls the lily of the valley her favorite flower. Secondly, the lily of the valley is connected to happiness. In floriography (the language of flowers) the lily of the valley symbolizes a return to happiness and love. Lily of the valley is also a popular flower of choice for wedding bouquets. As you could recall, the cure for melancholia is to return sanguine (happiness) through dance, music, or sex (love). Thus, ZUN is brilliantly implying that the "Medicine For Melancholy" in Touhou is the lily of the valley. Indeed, in real life, the flower is used in small amounts in herbal remedies to treat heart issues as the flower's glycosides affect the heart. The heart is a common symbol for love and happiness. To heal the heart is to cure melancholia. Medicine herself says in PoFV that "small doses of poison can be medicine" and, since Medicine is mainly associated with the lily of the valley, ZUN is implying that the flower is medicine (in small amounts). Eirin even gets help from Medicine (who supplies her with flowers) because poisons are vital components to medicine. Again, the medicine for melancholy is the the lily of the valley. The lily of the valley also has alternate names such as "Our Lady's Tears" and "Mary's Tears", referencing the weeping Virgin Mary. This could also be an alternate reason as to why Medicine has four crosses on her clothes. Medicine's story as a doll who became a poisonous youkai after being abandoned on the Nameless Hill (which is full of lily of the valley flowers) could come from Nathaniel Hawthorne's story "Rappaccini's Daughter" in which Dr. Rappaccini keeps his daughter, Beatrice, confined in a garden of poisonous flowers until she eventually becomes poisonous herself. It's also worth noting that around the time PoFV released Rozen Maiden, a series about living dolls, was getting to be extremely popular in Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20339449
cont.
Medicine's frilly clothes and living-doll theme may possibly be based on the living dolls of Rozen Maiden. Oh yeah, and Medicine is specifically a tsukumogami (a type of youkai that a tool becomes when it's been untouched for a long time). Medicine was a ventriloquist doll, a dummy, before becoming a youkai after laying in the Nameless Hill for years. Since Gensokyo is a small time capsule of Feudal Japan it's unlikely that a frilly European-style ventriloquist puppet/dummy/doll would have been made or owned by any human living in Gensokyo. Therefore, it's entirely possible that Medicine slipped through the Hakurei barrier and fell into Gensokyo as a doll after her owner forgot her. PMiSS even states in the article for the Nameless Hill that, long ago, it was common for lost children from the Outside World to slip into the Nameless Hill. Perhaps Medicine was owned by a lost Outside World child who dropped her on the hill only to forget her there.
Attacks/Spell Cards
>ポイズンビー (Poison Bee)
Medicine's charge attack in PoFV. Medicine can freely control any poison ever. It seems she is using the poison of a bee, melittin.
>スウィートポイズン (Sweet Poison)
Medicine's EX attack in PoFV. The lily of the valley is said to smell extremely sweet. Medicine is probably using the poison of that flower, convallatoxin, in this attack.
>毒符「神経の毒」(Poison Sign "Nerve Poison")
An spell card referencing a common type of poison; a nerve agent. The most famous nerve poison in Japan is that of the fugu pufferfish, a delicacy with a extremely important preparation. If the poison of the fugu is not removed correctly then the consumer will die or be seriously injured by the puffer's tetrodotoxin.
>毒符「憂鬱の毒」(Poison Sign "Melancholy Poison")
A high amount of black bile (melan cholia) in the human body caused depression and irrational thinking according to the Greeks. Black bile could be considered poison (although it doesn't exist).
>霧符「ガシングガーデン」(Fog Sign "Gassing Garden")
Gassing = "to kill or harm by exposure to poisonous gas"
Medicine commonly expels purple clouds of poison gas in her danmaku. The card could refer to the Nameless Hill's garden of lilies of the valley or to the poisonous garden in "Rappaccini's Daughter". Green, yellow, and purple "rice-shaped" bullets are Medicine's danmaku of choice in nearly all her spell cards. Green and purple are common colors that symbolize poison. Yellow is the color of the seeds of the lily of the valley. Also, besides white, the flower can come in yellow and lavender.
>毒符「ポイズンブレス」(Poison Sign "Poison Breath")
Medicine uses lots of poison clouds in this card. The name doesn't seem to reference anything in particular but it is worth noting that a skill in Dragon Quest of the name name has appeared in the series every since Dragon Quest V (released in 1992). ブレス (buresu) means both "breath" and "bless". As noted previously, Medicine has various connections to Christianity through the crosses on her clothes, Saint Bartholomew/Saint Bosco, and the lily of the valley's connection to the Virgin Mary.
>譫妄「イントゥデリリウム」(Delirium "Into Delirium")
Touhou wiki translates 譫妄 as "confusion" but that's completely wrong. 譫妄 means delirium and only delirium. Medicine's omake.txt in PoFV states that she can use poison to make animals and humans mad and can manipulate them that way. There is also a Belgian beer called "Delirium Tremens" (named after the medical condition delirium tremens). In PMiSS one of the many poisons named that Medicine can manipulate is alcohol.
>毒薬変じて甘露となる (Poison Can be Medicine in the Right Doses)
Medicine's "motto" in PoFV. Indeed, the lily of the valley is the medicine for melancholy.
Music Theme
ポイズンボディ ～ Forsaken Doll (Poison Body ~ Forsaken Doll)
Medicine's body is said to be poisonous to the touch and simply touching her will irritate your skin. She was abandoned on the Nameless Hill, thus the usage of the word "forsaken".
Titles
>小さなスイートポイズン (Little Sweet Poison)
The lily of the valley is known to smell very sweet.
>体に優しくない人形 (Doll Unpleasant to the Body)
Medicine's very presence can cause you to be itchy all over. Her poison is very unwelcoming.
Spell Card Background
Psychedelic purple flowers.

And that's it for Medicine. Such a minor character yet ZUN didn't skimp out on her at all. ZUN is truly an artist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20339449
cont.
Medicine's frilly clothes and living-doll theme may possibly be based on the living dolls of Rozen Maiden. Oh yeah, and Medicine is specifically a tsukumogami (a type of youkai that a tool becomes when it's been untouched for a long time). Medicine was a ventriloquist doll, a dummy, before becoming a youkai after laying in the Nameless Hill for years. Since Gensokyo is a small time capsule of Feudal Japan it's unlikely that a frilly European-style ventriloquist puppet/dummy/doll would have been made or owned by any human living in Gensokyo. Therefore, it's entirely possible that Medicine slipped through the Hakurei barrier and fell into Gensokyo as a doll after her owner forgot her. PMiSS even states in the article for the Nameless Hill that, long ago, it was common for lost children from the Outside World to slip into the Nameless Hill. Perhaps Medicine was owned by a lost Outside World child who dropped her on the hill only to forget her there.
Attacks/Spell Cards
>ポイズンビー (Poison Bee)
Medicine's charge attack in PoFV. Medicine can freely control any poison ever. It seems she is using the poison of a bee, melittin.
>スウィートポイズン (Sweet Poison)
Medicine's EX attack in PoFV. The lily of the valley is said to smell extremely sweet. Medicine is probably using the poison of that flower, convallatoxin, in this attack.
>毒符「神経の毒」(Poison Sign "Nerve Poison")
An spell card referencing a common type of poison; a nerve agent. The most famous nerve poison in Japan is that of the fugu pufferfish, a delicacy with a extremely important preparation. If the poison of the fugu is not removed correctly then the consumer will die or be seriously injured by the puffer's tetrodotoxin.
>毒符「憂鬱の毒」(Poison Sign "Melancholy Poison")
A high amount of black bile (melan cholia) in the human body caused depression and irrational thinking according to the Greeks. Black bile could be considered poison (although it doesn't exist).
>霧符「ガシングガーデン」(Fog Sign "Gassing Garden")
Gassing = "to kill or harm by exposure to poisonous gas"
Medicine commonly expels purple clouds of poison gas in her danmaku. The card could refer to the Nameless Hill's garden of lilies of the valley or to the poisonous garden in "Rappaccini's Daughter". Green, yellow, and purple "rice-shaped" bullets are Medicine's danmaku of choice in nearly all her spell cards. Green and purple are common colors that symbolize poison. Yellow is the color of the seeds of the lily of the valley. Also, besides white, the flower can come in yellow and lavender.
>毒符「ポイズンブレス」(Poison Sign "Poison Breath")
Medicine uses lots of poison clouds in this card. The name doesn't seem to reference anything in particular but it is worth noting that a skill in Dragon Quest of the name name has appeared in the series every since Dragon Quest V (released in 1992). ブレス (buresu) means both "breath" and "bless". As noted previously, Medicine has various connections to Christianity through the crosses on her clothes, Saint Bartholomew/Saint Bosco, and the lily of the valley's connection to the Virgin Mary.
>譫妄「イントゥデリリウム」(Delirium "Into Delirium")
Touhou wiki translates 譫妄 as "confusion" but that's completely wrong. 譫妄 means delirium and only delirium. Medicine's omake.txt in PoFV states that she can use poison to make animals and humans mad and can manipulate them that way. There is also a Belgian beer called "Delirium Tremens" (named after the medical condition delirium tremens). In PMiSS one of the many poisons named that Medicine can manipulate is alcohol.
>毒薬変じて甘露となる (Poison Can be Medicine in the Right Doses)
Medicine's "motto" in PoFV. Indeed, the lily of the valley is the medicine for melancholy.
Music Theme
>ポイズンボディ ～ Forsaken Doll (Poison Body ~ Forsaken Doll)
Medicine's body is said to be poisonous to the touch and simply touching her will irritate your skin. She was abandoned on the Nameless Hill, thus the usage of the word "forsaken".
Titles
>小さなスイートポイズン (Little Sweet Poison)
The lily of the valley is known to smell very sweet.
>体に優しくない人形 (Doll Unpleasant to the Body)
Medicine's very presence can cause you to be itchy all over. Her poison is very unwelcoming.
Spell Card Background
Psychedelic purple flowers.

And that's it for Medicine. Such a minor character yet ZUN didn't skimp out on her at all. ZUN is truly an artist.

[Anonymous No.]

Lore posts are the best. They give me so many insights and ideas to draw a character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20313088
Plebs know nothing of "Princess Kaguya". Ask random people you'll see.

[Anonymous No.]

Great thread. I want to talk about Oni :
>Suika = Shuten Douji (酒呑童子)
>Kasen = Ibaraki Douji (茨木童子)
>Yuugi = Hoshiguma Douji (星熊童子)

So there's still one member of Big Four of Mountain Oni that hasn't been revealed right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20340634
Shuten Doujin and Ibaraki Douji aren't part of the "Big Four" in the original mythology, it was Shuten Doujin, Ibaraki Doujin and the Big Four in the original legend, meaning the possible 4th Oni in Touhou could be one of three candidates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20340694
*Douji

[Anonymous No.]

>>20340624
This. Once I asked another touhou wiki reader and he mistaken Chang'e with Kaguya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20339447
MAN why are Japanese people so well versed in western literature? This book, Anne of Green Gables, Dog of Flanders (which I doubt there’s a Flandre connection with haha), Bram Stoker, a lot of kids and adults probably don’t even know about these books let alone have read them. In fact, I’d say the west is probably less versed on its own classics than japan in some ways. I dunno anyone who knows Stendhal’s the red and the black but then it just gets casually brought up in anime. This is one reason why I defend being a weeb so hard. Japan is so deeply interested in other cultures that you often end up learning interesting facts about your own culture through references in anime. Contrarily though, how many western adults even know what Momotaro is, or how the forty seven ronin got their revernge? They don’t even take an interest in their own classics.

[Anonymous No.]

Half of the character cast is actually men in dresses

[Anonymous No.]

>>20319173
>For that matter, kogasa may actually secretly be an ippon datara.
This interests me a little, is Kogasa actually part Ippon Datara or is it a case of strong overlapping myths that ends up giving her a subclass for lack of a better way to describe it. We know she is clearly a Tsukomogami and a Karakasa Obake but it seems like she only has some traits of a Ippon Datara by chance. Then again this seems like a case of one myth overlapping with multiple others. Ultimately if you were to look at Kogasa the Tatara part of her name is an effective direct pun on the Ippon-Datara's name describing the old bellows black smith used to step on to keep the flames flowing. She seems fairly oddly competent in multiple areas and quite decently strong as goofy as she is presented. I actually wonder if that might also be a nod to one version of the myth which says the Ippon-Datara is actually a fallen mountain god who has reverted back into a Yokai. (Kanako talks about this in large during SoPM too)

We actually see a lot of the characters in Touhou as very liberal takes on their base myths, such as Remi being considered an Oni (Vampire being literally written as 'blood sucking oni') and therefore sharing all the weaknesses/strengths as well as her own vampiric myth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20342268
>she literally fits all the qualifications for an ippon datara up too and including being a hilariously good blacksmith, to the point of actually being Reimu's weaponsmith when her needles and shit go bad
>implying she's not one.

[Anonymous No.]

blessed thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>20341512
I'm not too sure about other creators but ZUN said himself that he loves gothic Western literature. Especially the works of Agatha Christie. The Japanese are generally more well educated than the rest of the world.
>>20332976
Let me correct something on my old post, Eiki's Rod of Remorse only has one character on it (it seems). 罪 (which means crime). This makes sense because yama right notes on their shaku about what crimes/sins a person has committed in their lifetime. The other symbols seems to be nonsense or, maybe, hyper stylized kanji that I can't identify. Also, her theme begins very similar to "The Legend of KAGE" from HRtP (possibly because Sariel is an angel of death, connecting her to shinigami and thus yama). The title of that track from HRtP references "The Legend of Kage (影の伝説)", and old game by Taito. While making PoFV ZUN was still working at Taito, so it's probably more than likely a reference to the game. What's even more is that another music track from The Legend of Kage seems to be referenced in Eiki's theme. And Touhou's main theme as a whole ("Theme of Eastern Story") seems to come from the The Legend of Kage as well.
>Legend of Kage Opening vs. Theme of Eastern Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irQP1DG0N3w
(and literally any Touhou title screen theme from EoSD onwards)
>The Legend of KAGE vs. Fate of Sixty Years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lteQTEAUO8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv5j92woHk
>Legend of Kage Rescue Attempt vs. Fate of Sixty Years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXXgaXk-B9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv5j92woHk (0:50 mark)
It seems ZUN really loved that game or had fond memories of it. He probably associates it with Japanese culture on a deep level. After all, on his comments in Eiki's theme he says he had "Japan + Rebirth + Country of Cherry Blossoms" in mind when creating the theme. Rebirth obviously refers to samsara (the cycle of reincarnation) that occurs when you die and are either reborn into hell or another realm. The yama oversee this cycle. Japan because, remember, the theme references WWII (as I explained in a previous post) and because I suppose ZUN wanted a very eastern feel to it ("Touhou" is literally in the title). "Country of Cherry Blossoms (桜の国)" was a manga released between 2003 and 2004. It told the story of a family who survived the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. On another note "Shiki", as you may remember, literally means "four seasons". In The Legend of Kage, the stages switch between the various seasons. Also, something I forgot to mention about the sixty year cycle was that the ancient Chinese/Japanese thought it was important because it's the product of 3x4x5 (=60). 3 stands for the three lights (sun, moon, stars), 4 stands for the four seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn), and 5 stands for the five elements (wood, fire, earth, metal, water). In the end, ZUN probably has some special soft spot for The Legend of Kage and he probably thinks it's the game with the most quintessential "eastern (touhou)" feel. ZUN says in the Seasonal Dream Vision CD that Fate of Sixty years is his most "Touhou-like" song. He also says that it's "...a song that is fitting for a one-year gap. The story is like that too". 3x4 (=12) in 3x4x5 (=60) represents the 12 months (one year). Since flowers of every season are blooming during PoFV it could be said that the game (and by extension, Eiki Shiki because Shiki means four seasons) is a celebration of the whole year. Which makes sense since PoFV, as I've said earlier, was 60 years after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Surrender of Japan (which led to the Tokyo Tribunal, which is referenced in Sixty Year's Title as I've analyzed previously). All of this coincides with the sixty year cycle the ancient Chinese and Japanese held in such high regards. ZUN is brilliant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344601
>>20339461
Oh yes, and it seems the one prominent flower on Medicine's spell card background seems to from the genus Rafflesia. Rafflesia flowers are noted for smelling foul. American author Carl Van Vechten wrote in his book "The Merry-Go-Round" that the flower contained poisons such as muscarine and orsere, even though the flower is not poisonous in real life at all. ZUN really is a nerd for Western literature. I've already talked about Eiki's spell card background (which is a scrolling pattern over "The Last Judgement" by Michelangelo) and Mamizou's luminous full moon spell card background in their analyses, so go read it again if you missed it. Also, Medicine's scope (the red field that can be activated with all characters in PoFV to reflect bullets from enemy sprites) is in the shape of a star. This is because the Germanic writer and physician, Paracelsus, stated that those affected by melancholy (black bile) would look toward or be more susceptible to commit acts of divination. This includes working with demons and using the stars as a method of divination. Pic related. Also, if you notice, Medicine's player character danmaku are shaped like crosses. The connection between her and Christianity is strong, as I've explained in depth earlier in those analysis posts. Eiki's scope is just a simple circle and has no inspiration or lore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20340694
Thanks. After researching further, perhaps the structure of the Big Four is like this?

Leader of Big Four
>Suika/Shuten Douji (酒呑童子)

Vice Leader of Big Four
>Kasen/Ibaraki Douji (茨木童子)

The Big Four of Mountain (山の四天王)
>Yuugi/Hoshiguma Douji (星熊童子)
>Toraguma Douji (虎熊童子)
>Kanaguma Douji (金熊童子)
>Kuma Douji (熊童子)

[Anonymous No.]

>>20287443
So are all of them female or are we just shown female yokais/fairies? Or are males really rare?

Sorry if this question is really basic, I'm just not that deep into touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344611
Speaking of which, I’ve brought this up before and you seem like a person who knows a lot of in depth info. Christianity, mainly Catholicism, has had a strong history in Japan. It was never as influential as Buddhism and Shinto but Japans underground Christians are as much a part of Japan’s history as any.
Persecution, beginning mainly in the Tokugawa shogunate, forced Christianity underground. In Touhou there are only vague indirect references to Christianity. Rumia mentions a crucified saint, Remilia scoffs at crucifixes, and I believe a picture of an Inari shrine in one of the manga has a hidden crucifix in it. Is there any case for Christianity having a “hidden presence” in Touhou? It’s been my pet theory that if Christianity is present, then it would be interesting to have it simply covertly present, as it parallels how Christianity was only covertly present in Japanese history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345276
The fortune teller was male. Also Unzan is male.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344611
>Oh yes, and it seems the one prominent flower on Medicine's spell card background seems to from the genus Rafflesia.
I think I had a stroke when writing this
It seems the one prominent flower on Medicine's spell card background is from the genus Rafflesia*
I type these super fast so please excuse typos and confusing grammar.
>>20345276
ZUN said that there are male youkai (we see a some in the various manga) but it just happens to be that the female characters are more prominent, making it seem like there are only females in Gensokyo. This was just a cop-out explanation as there really is no true "lore explanation" for why females are more prominent than males. I assume it's because ZUN cannot draw males well. He also said that danmaku is feminine and is more suited for girls to use.
>>20345298
ZUN does use Christian/Catholic images at times in his stories but I doubt there are Christians in Gensokyo currently (unless, of course, there are and we just haven't been introduced yet). Gensokyo is located in the Yatsugatake Mountains and, historically, there weren't any Catholic missionaries or churches there. The same is true for today. Characters like Rumia and Seiga (who said that Miko's resurrection would be more magnificent than Jesus' resurrection) make reference to Christianity so it isn't unknown. Even Akyuu, a villager who hasn't been outside of Gensokyo, compared Miko's resurrection to that of Jesus. Aya and Seiga are familiar with Santa Claus and Kasen compares Shaka Nyorai (Gautama Buddha) to Jesus Christ in WaHH. It's clear that Christianity is not an uncommon topic in Gensokyo. Since even Akyuu knows about it then I'm sure bibles exist in Gensokyo. Kosuzu probably has one. Jesus being resurrected is real in Touhou's universe, so who's to say what other foreign gods/angels/demons/youkai there are? They clearly exist. It's only a matter of if or when ZUN chooses to explore the topic in the future.
>Inari shrine
>hidden crucifix
I think you're misremembering. Are you talking about pic related? That isn't a crucifix, it's just part of the wooden frame of the shrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345181
The Yama no Shitennou (lit. "Four Heavenly Kings of the Mountain") were a group of four of the most powerful oni in Gensokyo. In Japanese mythology, the Shitennou (Four Heavenly Kings) are four Buddhist deities that each represent a direction: Bishamonten for the north, Zouchouten for the south, Jikokuten for the east, and Koumokuten for the west. The title Shitennou can also be used for any four important figures and it was even used in military rankings at one point. Touhou's Shitennou are mostly based on the Shitennou of oni king Shuten-douji (lit. "Sake-Drinking Oni"). Shuten-douji's oni gang consisted of himself, Hoshikuma-douji (lit. "Star-Bear Oni"), Torakuma-douji (lit. "Tiger-Bear Oni"), Kuma-douji (lit. "Bear Oni"), and Kanekuma-douji (lit. "Iron-Bear Oni"). He also had a child named Ibaraki-douji (lit. "Thorn-Bush Oni"). Douji literally means "child" in modern Japanese but it used to refer to a variety of other things including servant and oni. Suika is based on Shuten, Yuugi is based on Hoshikuma, and Kasen is based on Ibaraki. As you could see, Gensokyo's Four Heavenly Kings don't strictly follow Shuten's Four Heavenly Kings. The final oni could be Kuma, Kanekuma, Torakuma or a curveball. Some fans speculate that Konngara is the final member because she's based on Konngara-douji (矜羯羅童子 Japanese phonetic form of the Sanskrit "kimkara", slave; the kanji before douji mean nothing). Konngara-douji is a yaksha. In Japanese mythology yaksha are considered a type of oni.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345298
EoSD is explicitly western. That explains like 95% of christian imagery in the series.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there any lore explanation to Okina's ability to create doors on the back of anything? Why exactly on the back?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345820
One of Matarajin's roles was the God of the back of the shrine. Okina seems to be able to do anything as long as it relates to the back of things.

[Anonymous No.]

Whats with Reimu living in poverty? Aside from empty donation box memes, WaHH shows that every business she tries ends up goin wrong one way or another.

[Anonymous No.]

What if this entire time, Hecatia thought Junko was pissed about Houyi shooting down 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘯 and not 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘴𝘰𝘯

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345922
WaHH have also chapter that explains it, kinda.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344611
>>20339461
>>20339449
>>20339447
Nice read on my favorite of the characters. It's interesting to see how all these details add up.

I certainly wouldn't mind trying to relieve her of her melancholy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345820
I'm gonna go over Okina...soon (she really has too much inspirations/connections). Probably by the end of this month. But the door thing is easy to explain so I'll tell you about that now. One aspect of Matarajin is worshipped at the back door (ushirodo) of shrines. Matarajin is secretly a manifestation the buddha Amida (Amitabha). In Tendai, the sect of Buddhism Matarajin is most associated with, Amida is usually worshipped at front of the shrine with another god at the backdoor (in the case of Koryu-ji and some other temples this god is Matarajin). Dances and rituals associated with Matarajin are performed near this back door. This is why ZUN gave Okina the ability to "create doors on the back of anything". This ability works like a portal and allows her to travel anywhere. She can even open doors on people's backs and fill them with magic and empower them, which is what she did with the protagonists of HSiFS. They gathered seasonal energy and when they met Okina at stage 6, she took their seasonal energy and then forcefully ejected them outside the seasonal door on their backs that they used to collect the energy in the first place. In the extra stage, the protagonists instead collect doyou (the fifth season which exists between every season) instead. Doyou has no vitality, according to Okina. This is because it's where nature is at its weakest. Okina can't take that energy and expel the protagonists out a door, so the protagonists get to fight a full, fair danmaku battle with Okina and win. Of course, Okina reveals in Aya's extra that she could have closed the door at the protagonists' back at any time, rendering them powerless against her. Okina just let the protagonist win is what ZUN basically implied. It wasn't a serious "fight" anyway. Okina was just testing the protagonist for fun and (in Reimu's case) testing to see if Gensokyo was functioning properly. Besides the ability to make backdoors anywhere, Okina can manipulate vitality and mental energy. Vitality is something that life operates on in principle. It more accurately translates to "life force". It's the energy of nature itself. The fairies and seasons went crazy because Okina was pumping vitality into Gensokyo to bring attention to herself and to test the emergency response of Gensokyo. Fairies are made up of vitality (nature), they went crazy in HSiFS because Okina basically powered them up (just like she did with the protagonists). She can use vitality to create youkai as she pleases. She created Aunn by filling up a komainu statue with vitality. Now "manipulate" means to move around and use as you please. Okina can also remove vitality, as we see in HSiFS when she renders the protagonists powerless by taking their energy and then forcibly ejecting them. Imagine if she took a youkai or humans' actual vitality and not their seasonal vitality. It's basically an instant death ability. All living things are made up of vitality. Okina could take away that vitality and thus instantly destroy a living being or erase it from existence, just as she could create a living being by imbuing something with vitality. In fact, in WaHH, Okina claims that she can remake (destroy then create again) the entirety of Gensokyo if she so pleases. This ability over vitality is extremely powerful it seems, fitting for a god and Gensokyo sage like Okina. And we have no idea what "mental energy" is yet. Can Okina make people go insane? Make them feel motivated? What is manipulation of mental energy? This is never elaborated on but if it's similar to mind control then Okina seems to be the most broken character in terms of power, second only to Hecatia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346285
So I legitimately wonder, with the fact we know 3 of gensokyo's sages that run things in the background, which are Yukari, Okina, and Kasen, why is kasen on the same level on the other two enough to be considered equals in being sages?
This is obvious on how yukari actually acts respectful around her whenever they meet up. I know what the 3's jobs are with Yukari keeps control of the border and keeps the outside from walking in and wrecking it, Okina is probably why youkai can thrive in gensokyo with keeping vitality up for the mythical creatures and Kasen seems to be in charge of keeping things at the status quo, but why is she qualified to sit at the same table as them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346473
I assume Kasen has some hidden ability, likely related to her secret status as an oni. In ULiL she's able to open portals through the Hakurei Barrier and she even says she doesn't want to reveal her full power because it would be "too risky". We're getting close to Kasen officially being revealed as an oni in WaHH so it's only a matter of time before this secret ability is shown.
>>20346175
Glad you liked it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20339461
anon-sensei class is the best

[Anonymous No.]

Guys what if it's not really an anon writing all of these but Keine communicating from Gensokyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>20346473
>>20346536
Kasen is a human hermit, not a oni.

[Anonymous No.]

Thank you based loreanon. Can you provide insight into Nue and her delicious zettai ryouiki?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345585
A major hurdle for any theoretical Christians coming into Gensokyo is the fact that things usually need to be completely forgotten in order to bridge the barrier. So long as a Christian remains faithful, even a destitute homeless person that would otherwise be a prime target to send over as youkai chow (and even that's suspect as apparently at one point they were strong enough to fight against vampires on an even footing, crosses working or no), they'll never be forgotten by their patron diety.
What I'm more interested in is the implications of Christianity standing vanguard in the outside world, and the outside world's eventual fate by the time of the CD Albums. What happened to the Christians? Were they wiped out? Spirited away into their own bordered realms from a lack of faith? Did they leave somehow? It's not made clear if the faithless state of the outside world is specific to Japan, but given that Japan had fallen in morals enough that it was now legal to euthanize senior citizens after a certain age, one can't help but wonder how poorly the rest of Earth fared.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20351133
It's never been revealed how Remilia and the SDM got into Gensokyo so presumably there is some other way in besides crossing the barrier directly since they managed it and did so illicitly since it apparently touched off a war between them and the powers that be'd at the time.

Always hoped that little bit of lore would eventually be explored since it would answer alot of questions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353291
Probably Patche's magic or Sakuya powers, presumably both.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353291
the problem is, is ZUN even a good enough story teller to answer these questions without burning the entirety of touhou to the ground?
I want to know the answers but what if we don't like them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353480
That's understood and probably the events themselves should be left alone for interpretation since it works so much better that way for Touhou.

However, if you wanted to introduce a Christian character from outside Gensokyo it's probably going to eventually be whoever or whatever caused Remilia to flee to the literal ends of the Earth and beyond. She was even interested in potentially moving to the Moon; there's something out there she is trying to escape from. Probably won't be until the endgame when the Barrier finally falls, if ZUN ever chooses to go there before he dies from alcohol poisoning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353291
>It's never been revealed how Remilia and the SDM got into Gensokyo
Because EoSD was created way before this stuff was written into the overarching setting and had to be handwaved a teeny bit to fit in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353291
>>20353467
>>20356085
>>20357934
You guys are overthinking this way too much. No, it isn't something ZUN overlooked and no, the SDM doesn't have special powers or magic that allow them to cross the barrier. They got in because they were allowed in. It's that simple. Yukari made the Boundary of Fantasy and Reality (which is seperate from the Hakurei border) as a beacon in order to encourage the youkai of the world to enter Gensokyo. Remember, Mamizou got into Gensokyo too. All youkai are allowed in, they're encouraged to come in. There's probably an application process or introduction requirement but that hasn't been elaborated on. In any case, no where does it say they entered illegally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20358223
Not sure why you quote me >>20357934 since I'm saying it isn't important and shouldn't be looked into too hard. The later explanation of how they get in was justification/modification after the fact, much like a lot of ZUN's writing at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

how do I make my touhou fan fiction canon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20360764
track down and blackmail zun

[Anonymous No.]

>>20360764
Stalk ZUN wearing a 2hu Kigurumi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20287443
autism

[Anonymous No.]

>>20362446
looks like someone's mad

[Anonymous No.]

Gensokyo's creator god, or the closest approximation to it, is the Dragon God. The Dragon God created the five phases of nature, the Wu Xing. It created the loop of sky to rain to sea, bestowed the shape of the seven colors of the rainbow and the flow of the three lights of all things. With the creation of the loop, wood engendered fire, fire engendered earth, earth engendered metal, metal engendered water, and water engendered wood. Following forth, wood came to conquer earth, earth came to conquer water, water came to conquer fire, fire came to conquer metal, and metal came to conquer wood, thus creating complication and the ten powers of destruction. It is according to this that all things in nature live, as the Dragon God made it so.

Saving this beautiful thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20344601
>ZUN says in the Seasonal Dream Vision CD that Fate of Sixty years is his most "Touhou-like" song
Listening to that theme and its arrangements for 11 years. Can confirm.

[Anonymous No.]

Is it wrong to ask for an explanation in general on Reimu?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365650
>>/jp/thread/S19919269#p19920946

[Anonymous No.]

I like Koishi and how her spellcards are named after the work of Freud and Hartmann

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365580
To me the most "Touhou-like" song is Memory of Forgathering Dream even though it was not composed by ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
About a third of these have answers

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
A lot of those bother me too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
>pic related

[Anonymous No.]

>>20373792
>sample_

[Anonymous No.]

>>20373792
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365580
この世界　不変あるとするならば 華鳥風月　厳かで美しいもの

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
>why is Nitori suddenly a totally different character who looks down on people, only wants money and is not shy at all?
With importance and leadership comes the need to grow out of one's shell and overcome anxiety in public.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20375535
The real answer is that pretty much everyone managed to completely misread Nitori's character through a combination of misinterpreting her in MoF and SA, and fanworks supporting her as a nice girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376830
I think it was the best decision that immediately after MoF, Nitori and all the other kappa were changed to be adorable little midgets. Gensokyoan kappa being water dorfs is the best thing ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365546
a.k.a Yellow Dragon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Dragon

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376830
It's really funny because SA is very explicit on what she's supposed to be like. But I guess that's secondaries for ya.

>>20376937
I want to carry Nitori so badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
No way I am reading all this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
Byakuren has spellcards because Makai obviously isn't isolated from Gensokyo informationwise. Her being trapped there doesn't mean she couldn't have gotten news from the outside world. How could her underlings even organize such an elaborate plan to free her without her being aware of it beforehand? Shinki probably has spellcards too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20376937
>>20377261
They're more reverse dwarves in that they hide their hideous men out of sight, with the exception of the Hawaiian Kappa that are apparently a patriarchy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20377261
>It's really funny because SA is very explicit on what she's supposed to be like. But I guess that's secondaries for ya.
I can figure that you weren't around for the game's release or few years after. This kind of thing is only really obvious in retrospect; at the time nobody was any the wiser, and even Japan wasn't all that cognizant of it. Most overseas fan's understanding of things was not great due to a lack of people invested in the lore, the average translation quality was kinda iffy with many leftover old translations left unchallenged, and various other factors. People in general didn't start "getting" ZUN's writing here until like, 2009~11, I want to say? It's easy to say stuff like this now because it's much more common knowledge; the average overseas fan's understanding of the setting is a lot higher now because of the resources available.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20380475
Yeah, no. MarisaC stage 3 puts Nitori's duplicitous personality under a giant spotlight and I have serious doubts the translations of the time were of such inept quality that this wasn't, at the very least, noticeable.

People were just idiots. It happens.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is not dying today!

[Anonymous No.]

What's the LORE behind this cat?

[Anonymous No.]

I bet lore dude can't even fill two(2) posts about Seija!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20385258
This. I'm kinda curious what exactly were the design inspirations for Seija are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20341512
Seems like somebody is a fellow reader of Kouji Kumeta

[Anonymous No.]

>>20362396
Perfect Blue in Strict Sense

[Anonymous No.]

>>20341512
Smartphone technology hasn't hit them to the point where they cease reading books yet, largely because they were already older people when smartphones came out. Expect a decline in quality with the next generation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20380681
People were oblivious, but it doesn't mean they were just idiots either. The translations were just one factor. Like I said, this wasn't picked up much in Japan either, and fanworks went on with the idea that Nitori is primarily a human-loving shy kappa. People didn't look into it that hard, and only had her other appearance in MoF to go on, which to most seemed to imply sincerity rather than duplicity, which even now you can be confused by. It's really easy to say this stuff now that the cards are obvious, but this case was just some collective freak accident.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20345585
>inari shrine
He's confused over the kokkuri weegee.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20332848
>No one calls her "Yama" or "the Yama" in the Japanese fandom and ZUN himself never refers to Eiki this way, they always use her name or "[a] yama".
I don't know why you say this when "a" or "the"--either one are NOT things in Japanese. They don't have a separation between proper or not proper nouns. The title being solely given to the current Judge of Paradise (literally what Yamaxanadu means) would lend more to saying that indeed, a more appropriate translation on the few times Eiki is titled or mentioned with Yamaxanadu, it'd be best to use "The" since at the time, she is indeed THE one, at least as far as English is concerned.

I also don't know why you keep saying she's not referred to as enma because
>担当は幻想郷の死者を裁く事で、我々に最も関係が深い閻魔様である。
>閻魔
first line of her article in PMISS, written by Akyuu. Enma. I don't see any notes saying the reading should be different either. And then, a quick reminder of her scenario itself
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Phantasmagoria_of_Flower_View/Story/Eiki's_Scenario
Run a ctrl+f for 閻魔 (閻魔様 to be exact). She's called Enma-sama by Reisen, Youmu, and Aya. Again maybe there's some other reading but I don't see one. Her species is also "Enma", though we know very technically she is an ascended Jizou.

So basically
*Referred to as Lord Enma/Lady Enma
*Official title is Yamaxanadu (Judge of Paradise (Yama -> Judge, Xanadu -> Gensokyo))

So basically what are you on about. Again, sure, none of these characters are saying outright she is THE one and only forever Enma, but considering she is honored with -sama by literally everyone, she is Gensokyo's judge (the only one, right now) and so on, an accurate translation would absolutely be "The Enma". To my knowledge, the only character who doesn't call her this is Komachi, who calls her Shiki-sama.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20388282
just to be clear I'm saying that translating something like
> ああこれは閻魔様。
As "Aah, it's an Enma" is pretty stupid because clearly the character is addressing her as "the one I address with respect" quite literally "Aah, Enma-sama"/"Aah, it's the Enma" whatever you want to do to get the point across that it's kind of a title. Could be saying Yama, again, I don't know, but nothing seems to say the reading should be different given Yamaxanadu is written out in kana while Enma-sama is written in kanji. Again yes there are other Enma, but each character is addressing her as the sole one in charge of their realm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20309596
Let me add something interesting: "Hecate was associated with borders, city walls, doorways, crossroads and, by extension, with realms outside or beyond the world of the living. She appears to have been particularly associated with being 'between' and hence is frequently characterized as a "liminal" goddess."
>>20339461
毒符「憂鬱の毒」(Poison Sign "Melancholy Poison") and 毒薬変じて甘露となる (Poison Can be Medicine in the Right Doses) could be saying that the Melancholy Poison is an excess of Melancholy Medicine?

Also can you talk about the sigils?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20388282
>>20388312
You do realize that 閻魔 is yama and Enma, right? Yhe species is yama (閻魔) the individual is Enma (閻魔). Anyway, Komachi says that Eiki is reborn from a jizo statue. She's not Enma. She's just Gensokyo's yama. PMiSS says that "Yamaxanadu" is a title given to the yama assigned to Gensokyo (which is Eiki). Eiki is not one of the Ten Kings of Hell. PMiSS makes that clear. The Ten Kings of Hell are not reborn from Jizo statues, unlike all the other yama. I said in my post that perhaps Eiki was originally meant to be Enma but ZUN backtracked on that when he made PMiSS and when he explained that Eiki was iust a Jizo statue in OSP. Enma-O, like the rest of the Ten Kings, is not reborn from a Jizo statue. He's the actual Jizo. Eiki is not the actual Jizo. I don't know how you can deny this. PMiSS makes it clear that the Ten Kings are not Jizo statues. She's not The Yama. She's a yama. She's not The Enma, like most people mistakenly believe, she's iust a yama. Is it hard to just call her lord yama (yama-sama)? The species is also alternatively called enma. So enma-sama (not Enma-sama) is fine as 閻魔 reads both yama and enma. It's time to let go of memes. I know it sounds cute and funny but it's wrong. If another yama were to visit Gensokyo the characters would also call them yama-sama/enma-sama.
> ああこれは閻魔様。
Is "Aah, enma-sama/yama-sama". The word yama/enma is not a title, it's a species (in Touhou). And Eiki isn't Enma-O so it should be in lowercase.
>>20389854
>Melancholy Poison is an excess of Melancholy Medicine
Yes, that's what it says. It goes both ways. Take too much medicine and you overdose (it becomes a poison). Take a little bit of poison and you're fine (it acts as a medicine).
>sigils
Soon. I'm a little busy with other things so you'd have to wait a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20390634
>> ああこれは閻魔様。
>Is "Aah, enma-sama/yama-sama". The word yama/enma is not a title, it's a species (in Touhou). And Eiki isn't Enma-O so it should be in lowercase.
You're being daft if you think thus way. If they're addressing her as if it's a name and Gensokyo specifically has only one, it's a title. How is this not obvious to you? You're also not proving me wrong on the reading of the kanji, like why is it read "Yama" according to you while "Yama" is rendered differently elsewhere? Explain that. Don't just say "It's read yama" and have literally no evidence for it. You need to back up a claim like that when it's demonstrably the same exact word, spelled the same exact way, no different furiganam and also "yama" is written ヤマ very specifically in the setting.

Also you're missing my point. Essentially what I'm saying is that people refer to Gensokyo's judge with a title, similar to how someone would say "Director" or something in a company. I'm not saying there are no other yama in existence, I've literally said the opposite.
>>20388282
>none of these characters are saying outright she is THE one and only forever Enma
However, is there only one in Gensokyo? Yes. Do characters have a title for her? Yes (Yamaxanadu, a title given to whichever it is at the time). Does almost every character she meet say "Enma-sams"? Yes. An honorific? What, do you think that means nothing? The sama is just whatever, not a term of respect or title all of a sudden because you say so? Why the heck do you think this should not be rendered as a proper noun? Do you even know this most basic of basic English rules? Why do you think when people address her only as enma they somehow actually mean "oh, it's a yama" despite them saying it with respect, there only being one known to Gensokyo at any given time, and so on? It's like, idiot, would you say "ah, a king" when addressing a king because there are several? There's kings of different countries, there's kings of different times. Better examples: Lord, Duke, Lady, and so on. You capitalize these despite them not necessarily being unique, as they're titles and again, -sama indicates it's essentially a title. It's even something specifically GRANTED to statues of certain prestige, rank, etc.

I appreciate a lot of what you say but speaking with authority while simultaneously spouting bullshit is ridiculous.

finally
>The word yama/enma is not a title
It's a title given to jizou as well as a species. Clearly. This is even directly stated. Just because Eiki is not specifically "King Enma" does not mean she is not "Lord Enma" (Enma-sama, 閻魔様) (of Gensokyo, again of which there is only one at any given time, regardless of the structure of the greater Ministry). You'd think you'd understand this given actual Japanese speakers frequently call her 閻魔様, characters call her 閻魔様, it's 様. Yes it's a species, yes it's a title. It's just both, it's a ministry, it has jobs and positions. Once more I ask you to prove why the kanji should be yama when yama is written in katakana. Just do that, I can't intuit what the hell proof there's supposed to be when you say that with, from my perspective, absolutely no basis.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%BB%E9%AD%94
閻魔（えんま）

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391468
Ha, all of that and I just realize you're actually right according to the very thing I linked. It can be read enma and yama.

However there's nothing in Touhou specifically indicating that it's supposed to be "yama" especially given "yama" is rendered differently elsewhere. You'll have to tell me why that's supposed to be different. Is it only different because of the attached "xanadu"? I personally don't like just being told "this is like this" with nothing to show for why you say "this is like this".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391468
Also one last point I have is that there are other characters refereed to by species in Touhou and I wouldn't render their species as titles (vampire, tanuki, oni, and so on). None of them are rendered also with the an honorific such as 様. The only thing I could see someone arguing for 様 somehow NOT indicating respect and title in this case would be how specifically, the species uses 様 for... some reason that I'm really not sure of. But everywhere else it's a term of respect, and again one more time, in case you didn't get it, I repeat, there is indeed only one in Gensokyo at a time, characters refer to her by it with this honorific of respect, they only mean her when they mean 閻魔様, and there's nothing really indicating they mean it not uniquely when once more there should be one unique 閻魔様 in existence in Gensokyo (not Hell) and it's the one everyone living there knows, it's her job, and it's her state of being.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391468
>>20391500
The species is called yama/enma. Unfortunately, 閻魔 can be read as both enma/Enma and yama/Yama. In Touhou, it describes a species. It's "yama/enma" because there are multiple yama/enma (species). I'm not arguing against yama vs. enma, I'm just saying that in any case you would never capitalize it anyway because Eiki isn't Enma-o. Is "enma-sama/yama-sama" really that hard to type? Because that's what most every character refers to her as. Not "The Yama" or "The Enma".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391572
It's still something given to jizou in the very specific context of the ministry of right and wrong. It's given to worthy beings, it's bestowed to them. It also seems to make them into something else, however there aren't rogue judges, it's all in the context of the Ministry.

More importantly not rendering -sama as Lord/not giving it any notice when translating defeats the purpose of it. While a lot of the time in Japanese -sama doesn't really mean anything, and is literally just a term of respect, given the fact that it's tied to an organization here and characters aren't referring to nonspecific "yama-samas" when they say it, I see no reason at all that you wouldn't capitalize it, ESPECIALLY when it's being used as a means to name another person. I'd also, honestly, argue that I don't actually care either way, and my main issue is the insistence that it has to be one or the other. In fact I'll go ahead and say that it isn't necessary to capitalize it, and that I only personally feel you should do it. My issue is that in Japanese they don't even have that grammar rule, so when translating to another language you must adapt. If you wish, you can render the title (it is a title, it's still both, and -sama definitely indicates that it's some sort of status) as a proper noun, especially given... well, we do that with people we respect in English. However since there's nothing like that in Japanese, it doesn't really matter. Japanese is very contextual, so -sama doesn't even necessarily mean "Lord" hard and fast, it can just mean "I respect you". Though given it's a job, given it's a rank, given it only means the one in a certain land (Gensokyo), I'd give it proper noun status. The only reason I wouldn't is that I know it's also simultaneously a species, but I don't care about this as much since I know you can't just become a yama from being a jizou, you are selected and bestowed the name and strengths/abilities associated with it.
>Jizou from all over the country interested in serving as Yamas were gathered and entrusted with judgment of the deceased at each Jizou's location of origin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391648
In the context of gods (which is what yama are) -aama denotes "lord". And jizo aren't jizo when they become yama. They turn into a new species. The way this works is unknown. Komachi herself says that Eiki *used to* be a jizo. Powerword: used to be. The yama aren't just jizo with fancy titles, their entire species is changed (somehow). In any case, does it really matter? In the grand scheme of things Eiki might not be the only yama in Gensokyo. All yama/enma are called yama/enma-sama. Even when reffering to them as a plural -sama is used. It's not a unique thing for Eiki, all yama/enma are addressed that way. In Japanese, this is fine because there is no such thing as lowercase/capital. In the end yama-sama/enma-sama and Enma/Yama refer to the same thing but I believe the lowercase is more accurate because it's not their actual name, but their title. This is why so many people wrongly think that Eiki is Enma-O, because translators keep on capitalizing yama/enma. It shouldn't matter too much anyway for normal fans, go ahead and capitalize yama/enma all you want. This thread was for lore discussion. I brought up that thing originally because so so many people think that Eiki is Enma-O.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391802
>In the grand scheme of things Eiki might not be the only yama in Gensokyo
We're told she is, and that each yama is assigned to a specific place.

I'd also say that given the confusion you mention also exists in Japanese translators aren't really at "fault" for just rendering it as accurately as it pretty much ought to be. The way I see it, if you're like... in some other world that's not Gensokyo (like the moon, I guess) and you meet your world's yama and you say "oh hey, it's The Yama" then like, okay that makes sense. You obviously don't mean "why if it isn't a yama, that happens to be here". You mean yours.

However if you were in hell and said like "I want to see The Yama" they'd probably ask "wait, who" because there are many. Still I think of it more as a title because of the context, like I would say "President" when referring to any President. If not for it being an organization, I'd care less. After all gods indeed don't need to be called Gods, even though you can ascend to godhood. You aren't assigned being a god, in most cases (all?), which is different from how you apply for and are accepted as a yama with work to do and souls to judge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20391832
When I said that Eiki might not be the only yama in Gensokyo I was referring to Okina. Again, it doesn't really matter which way you want to say it. I only brought that up in the first place because the capitalization in yama/enma when reffering to Eiki made a lot of people think she was Enma-O.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20353480
Knowing ZUN if he ever did answer it it would be a throwaway explanation

[Anonymous No.]

Can lore anon tell us more about who Okina is a mother of?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20392318
Me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20372317
The implication with the games is that spell card rules are explained at some point.

They don't just have cards, because of course they don't. However having every single dialogue interrupted with "let's hash out what cards we'll use" would be very pace-breaking. Basically, you know how in SSiB the gang explains the rules to their newest enemy, and THEN they fight? Imagine that happens to everyone who doesn't know about them in the first place.

It's similar to how the games also do not portray spell card battles correctly. In a true duel, both sides use cards and both sides dodge. In the games, one side dodges while the other side takes fire, hardly moves, and shoots patterns.

Mokou's deaths are explained by the heroes knowing she's immortal and killing her to test this out. Nitori was always a horrible person even in MoF and I don't know at all why anyone thought differently. It's so fucking obvious she's a shady, cowardly fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20378775
uh, what?

No, Byakuren was imprisoned and sealed away, not "in Makai" generally like she had freedom there. She was locked up in Hokkai, and apparently beneath something that did not let her get out from that one place (where you find her in UFO--in other words, she didn't even have free reign within Hokkai; she was probably in what was effectively a magical cage). Her followers knew about it and did what they knew they needed to to get her out. Byakuren didn't know a thing about their plans.

Pic related. She knows about spell cards presumably because whoever reached her told her the rules (dialogue not shown, because that would be tedious).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20392318
She's the mother of my cute daughter Marisa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293395
If you were better at this, you would have put the word "religion" in quotes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20395923
Epic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20395920
Epic.

[Anonymous No.]

.

[Anonymous No.]

I want Okina lore!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20403581
She's the god of anal sex.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20404116
Ew gross, poop comes from there.

[Anonymous No.]

other than Cirno, are there black people in Gensokyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20409070
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20409070
Kanojo wa Gensokyo you baka

[Anonymous No.]

>>20293395
>>20395920
Though, the funposting anon isn't technically wrong in that Reimu herself is one of the least thought out characters still in the cast. She's a glorified Arkanoid paddle made for a game that was secondary to its music contents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410237
I'd smack Reimu with my paddle, if you know what I mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20385258
Ryuko Matoi, Shadow the Hedgehog, anarchy, and amonojakus. IIRC, amonojakus are yokai that are spirits of contradictions and making people do what they're not supposed to do. Not lore guy, that's all I got.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410720
Seija came before Ryuko, though it's debatable as to whether any inspiration came or went between the two since there was a single prmotional KLK pic AFTER the demo but BEFORE the full release.

[Anonymous No.]

Why would ZUN watch Kill la Kill

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410720
>amanojakus
>s
>>20410849
>>20410862
Seija is not based on Ryuko. DDC's first trial came out on May 26th, 2013 and the full release came out 3 months later in August 2013. KLK came out in October 2013. The first promo image was teased on Feburary 2013, pic related. The hair color isn't even remotely clear. News was silent until the project (with the full character designs) was revealed on May 8th, 2013. So unless you're saying that ZUN somehow made stages 4~EX all in 3 months, then it's impossible. DDC was in development for months before the trial, in case you're forgetting. No, Seija is not based on Ryuko. She existed before Ryuko was even revealed to the public.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410959
>So unless you're saying that ZUN somehow made stages 4~EX all in 3 months
Well I mean
He did say it takes him 6 months to make each game

[Anonymous No.]

>>20411135
The only fucking "similarity" they have is black hait with a red streak. There have been many characters before Ryuko and Seija that had such a hairstyle. This is such a ridiculous meme. You can stop now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20411225
>>20410959
Don't forget that Tokiko was basically the same so ZUN already made the hair stripe design years before he introduced Seija.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20411225
Simmer down, lad
I was just saying

[Anonymous No.]

>>20411225
This >>20411328

Basically we don't know. Could be, could not be. I don't care either way really

[Anonymous No.]

>>20365546
Tell me about Kasen, loreanon, why does her (or an whoever Oni's it is) arm send people to hell?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410720
Seija's design is pretty simple, honestly. The whole focus of her design is to highlight the contradictory, opposing nature of the amanojaku. She isn't really based off any specific deity or story, but rather on the general idea of what an amanojaku is, based on the various stories featuring them and the religious background surrounding them. Therefore, it makes sense that her design is full of clashing colors and opposites. You have the patterns of up and down arrows making up the hem of her dress and the little flap on the back of her collar, the upside down bow she wears around her waist, and her wearing only one bracelet on one arm representing this. It bears worth mentioning that Seija's relationship with Sukuna is based on the story of Urikohime, as she, the amanojaku, tricks Sukuna into letting her into her castle and ends up abusing the powers of the Miracle Mallet, much like how the amanojaku in the story of Urikohime tricked the princess into letting it into her home whereupon the amanojaku took advantage of her (by eating her and wearing her skin).

Really, we just know very little about Seija despite the fact we spent not only a whole game trying to stop a rebellion she instigated, but also another game where we helped her avoid capture while fighting almost every single person in Gensokyo. The only things we know for sure is that she:
1. Somehow acquired the Miracle Mallet
2. Heard how only Inchlings can use the power of the Mallet
3. Delved into the belly of (Old) Hell(?) to meet Sukuna
It's typically assumed that she is a Gensokyo-born youkai, but we really don't know much else aside from that. It's unlikely she'll be expanded upon like other characters who have caused incidents given her nature and temperament, which is fitting to her contrarian nature as a character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20410862
To steal designs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20416204
Nonon 2hu when?

[Anonymous No.]

Safe!

[Anonymous No.]

marisa is a dork and that's canon

[Anonymous No.]

>>20420948
Marisa is NOT a dork. She's a cute witchy tomboy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20420948
If anyone's a dork around here it's youmu

[Anonymous No.]

>>20420948
>>20421045
What is the lore on Marisa, anyway? Is she based on some sort of existing folkloric or historical figure, or have connections to one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20416274
That's Suwako

[Anonymous No.]

>>20423979
Marisa is a witch who lives away from the Human Village who technically runs an item shop. Her father runs a store in the Human Village but she isn't necessarily on good relations with him. She's known Rinnosuke ever since she was young, and she tends to visit his store from time to time. Despite her carefree attitude, she is extremely diligent in her magical studies and training and unlike Reimu, who is naturally gifted in the arts of youkai extermination, Marisa is self-taught and has spent countless hours everyday practicing her magic. She has a tendency to "borrow" things during Incidents, which has left her home/shop pretty cluttered, but she means well. She visits the Hakurei Shrine frequently and is best friends with Reimu Hakurei, sometimes even cooking meals for her. We have no information on who her mother is, nor why she has blonde hair compared to the rest of the villagers. Sometimes anon, a witch is just a witch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20310462
I'm 19 days late, but those were some great posts mate. I love Mamizou and I thank you

[Anonymous No.]

What's the deal with zombie fairies in SA?
Are they just natural spirits that hang out in hell or did someone find a way to break their respawn?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20426752
Aren't they just cosplaying like the bunny fairies in Eientei?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20426752
They're fairies dressed up as zombies. They like pretending they're zombies because they're in Old Hell and they think it's both fitting and funny to spook people as such.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20426752
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Orin's_Spell_Cards
>Actually, they're only good-humored fairies pretending to be zombies and attacking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20424015
>>20423979
The fun of Marisa's lore is how she steals her attacks and even arguably her modern appearance(from Ellen). Why is she such a kleptomaniac?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20426869
>Why is she such a kleptomaniac?
She possibly learned her "borrowing" habit from Rinnosuke being way too lenient on her since she was a child. The guy collects some interesting stuff, so she probably got a high "borrowing" and figuring out what those random things of his were. She later extended this habit to all of Gensokyo, and beyond.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427097
>she probably got a high "borrowing" and figuring out what those random things of his were.
If Rinnosuke spanked her when she was a little girl, people wouldn't be having their shit stolen now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427253
God, imagine spanking a loli Marisa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427275
She's still a loli though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427253
>>20427275
Imagine the sound of your hand smacking her bum

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427290
Hirasaka draws everyone as a loli. Reminder that Marisa is eternally 14~16 (like Reimu) and that Japs only only considere 13 and below loli. The word you're looking for is "short" (as Marisa is canonically one of the few characters described as short).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427290
>>20427275
>>20427322
nice LORE
don't you have like 500 other threads to lewdpost in? go there.

[Anonymous No.]

If Kosuzu can read anything, why doesn't she just read a bunch of magic books and become a witch?

>>20427290
I wonder which characters ZUN himself considers not loli. I was reading https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN's_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_3 a while ago and noticed he uses "adults" near the bottom to contrast with the "girls" his games usually involve, implying he doesn't think of them as adults. This is around the time he made that "height chart" comment too, I believe, so he didn't think of anyone as an adult back then regardless of height. I wonder how he feels nowadays about which touhous are girls and which are adults

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427326
>Japs only only considere 13 and below loli
So why are there tons of 14 year olds portrayed as loli types?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427394
Loli is also a body type. There are 400 year old lolis. Get over yourself. Most 14 year old girls IRL are in their developed beginnings already, not the xhildish, baby-faced, flat-chested midgets you see in anime and video games. Do you unironically think anime reflects real life? Get some help.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427376
>If Kosuzu can read anything, why doesn't she just read a bunch of magic books and become a witch?
She'll have to wait until she leaves the village, or else Reimu may have to kill her favorite human loli

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427404
So Marisa is a really-16-years-old loli, Got it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427417
You keep on using "loli" as a substitute for short. There is a difference between short and loli.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427423
There's nothing developed about her, anon. She's a washboard forever-loli that does shrooms, steals everyone's shit, and occasionally cooks Reimu a good meal when she gets the chance so she doesn't die from eating mold or grass

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427326
Loli is a bodytype, retard.

>>20427333
GOD, imagine spanking an adult Marisa!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427448
>loli
Again, nice headcanon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427481
Looks like you're the retard because I clearly said that over here
>>20427404

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427485
Show me one canon work that she isn't depicted as such.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427541
Again, brainet, being short ≠ loli
Marisa isn't even the kind of short that would qualify for loli (body type) status. She's not Remilia short. She's not Cirno short. If you're gonna post EveryoneIsALolisaka as "evidence" again then don't bother replying to this post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427493
Yes but you also said >>20427326
>and that Japs only only considere 13 and below loli.
and it just so happens this is the post I was replying to. Now stop being a retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427563
> If you're gonna post EveryoneIsALolisaka as "evidence" again then don't bother replying to this post.
I'm not even that anon, but you sound like one of those idiots who say Clownpiece isn't a loli because she might be taller than Cirno and the other fairies.
Go drown your tears in a hag's canonically saggy tits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427584
That post was as in age (loli). I was referring to age because I originally thought the anon was talling about Marisa's age. She's not a loli in age. And she's not a loli in body type either.
>>20427613
Again, EveryoneIsALolisaka's art is not trustworthy. Try pic related instead.

[Anonymous No.]

OP here. Can you guys not shit all over this thread? Thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

I hope whatever manga replaces WaHH when it ends is drawn by Hirasaka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427639
>the art EveryoneIsNotALoliLiterallyWho is more valid than the art of a manga artist who's been doing manga for 2hu for over a decade
But okay, let's see what ZUN has to say about this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427717
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427717
That's ZUN's style. He said not to trust his art as an indicator of age. They all look like deformed dolls anyway. Also, ZUN made it pretty clear with that portrait that Clownpiece has quite long legs. She's taller than other fairies. Not a loli. ZUN doesn't monitor Hirasaka's art but we know that he directs Aya's art strictly. Connect the dots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427794
>He said not to trust his art as an indicator of age.
Okay, let's trust the other artists. Oh look, Hirasaka drew her as a loli.
>Also, ZUN made it pretty clear with that portrait that Clownpiece has quite long legs. She's taller than other fairies. Not a loli.
You JUST SAID not to trust ZUN's art. You're a hypocrite.
>ZUN doesn't monitor Hirasaka's art
[citation hella needed]

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427998
>Hirasaka
As I've said before, ZUN doesn't monitor his art. For example, Hirasaka was free to draw Okina as a loli yet Aya, who was about to do the same thing, was forced by ZUN into making Okina more mature. Aya's art is heavily directed by ZUN. Hirasaka's is not (probably because the Fairies manga is a lighthearted SoL manga and not a story focused one like WaHH).
>you're a hypocrite
And you're a retard. ZUN said not to trust his art as an indication of AGE. Basic things like color and proportions aren't out of the picture. Clownpiece is meant to be lanky and long-legged. Hirasaka portrays Clownpiece as a loli fairy. Meanwhile Aya (who is the more monitored artist if you're tiny brain can't remember) drew Clownpiece as just a bit shorter than Hectia, with long legs. If you didn't see the earlier post
>>20427639

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428030
>As I've said before, ZUN doesn't monitor his art.
As I've said before, [citation holy shit needed]
>And you're a retard. ZUN said not to trust his art as an indication of AGE.
The age -they look-, Mr. Retardo-kun. Otherwise Clownpiece would have to look like she's thousands of years old and she's never portrayed that way by anyone. She doesn't look like a little 9 year old girl to you? Fine. But you're the one that brought up that ZUN said not to trust his drawings, you don't get to ignore it to make your shitty point.
>you're tiny brain
The ultimate irony.

[Anonymous No.]

Where the hell did this people come from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428101
I want to know where the Hirasaka hater popped out of too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428101
I want to know where the "every is a loli" secondaries popped out from too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428101
I want to know where the "everyone is a loli" secondaries popped out from too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428148
>>20428157
>>20428159
Why don't you make a thread for that and leave this thread alone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428094
>[citation holy shit needed]
Stop typing like that, Redditor. The post I made had a clear example of that. Hirasaka was allowed to make a loli Okina while Aya wasn't. You're a fucking ignorant retard. Typical of dumb secondaries like you.
>she doesn't look like a little 9 year old to you?
As was stated before, ZUN said not to trust his art as an indicator of age. Again, AGE. Most everyone he draws looks like a little 5 year old girl but most of them are teenage or older. Proportion, however, is not out of the picture. Clownpiece's legs, as drawn by ZUN, are clearly meant to be long. She's taller than your average fairy, not the midget that EveryoneIsALolisaka draws. Again, Aya drew Clownpiece as ZUN intended her to look
>>20427639

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428174
Lolitards and canontards are two cancers that can't be stopped, unfortunately. They always ruin shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>Loli is also a body type
The correct term is pettanko you newshits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428211
based and pettanpilled

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428213
based on what?

[Anonymous No.]

>Lolisaka
Are you guys fucking blind? Hirasaka just have a simple artstyle that makes everyone looking young.

[Anonymous No.]

Or are you going to claim that Eirin here is overgrown oppai loli or what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428245
>>20428249
Japanese fans literally call him ぺどさか (Pedosaka).

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428256
Well yes. The guy definitely likes his fairies. What does have to do with my posts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428183
It wouldn't surprise me if any or both of them are actually mentally ill, it would explain a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428268
It means that you and those other (2?) guys should stop shitposting take your dumb loli discussion out of this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428177
>Redditor
Not an argument, /v/. I don't care about your examples. You claimed ZUN does not monitor what Hirasaka does. I want explicit, written proof of this from either man.
>As was stated before, ZUN said not to trust his art as an indicator of age. Again, AGE. Most everyone he draws looks like a little 5 year old girl but most of them are teenage or older.
So MAYBE, it means that even though Clownpiece is not drawn as a loli, she might actually be intended to be!!!!!????

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428268
>Lolisaka
>Are you fucking blind?
Lolisaka = Pedosaka

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428274
>Not an argument, I don't care about your examples
>/v/
>be!!!!!???
At least try to pretend you're not baiting. Not gonna waste my time replying to you anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428272
Saying that all your shit is nothing but retarded is not a shitposting. But considering that you're arguing about the dumbest shit it actually might be to you. Peace niggas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428282
I wasn't even in the "argument" at all. I just want you and those other shitlords to stop talking about dumb irrelevant shit. Go make a new thread and stop ruining this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428281
Sure, I'll take your concession. Next time don't undermine yourself by bringing up ZUN saying he's not accurate.

[Anonymous No.]

20428308
>concession
retard
>undermine
double retard. ZUN was talking about age. clownpiece's proportions are set up so she has long legs. aya drew her correctly, hirasaka didn't. you can go back now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428297
>stop talking about dumb irrelevant shit
Referring to canon works regarding the physical characteristics of characters isn't dumb or irrelevant, considering that the whole point of the thread is learning more about characters, no matter how trivial.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428368
>>20370272

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428245
So let me paraphrase that.
>Child like beings are afraid worms will drink up all the alcohol they ingest so that they cannot get drunk anymore
I wonder if ZUN or Hirasaka ever feel any guilt.

I wonder if ZUN's gotten his son drunk yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20428511
Guilt for what?
Why haven't you left already, retard?

[Anonymous No.]

"And that aside, now that I think of it, the alcohol level really piled up a lot, too. PCB is about 90% alcohol (well, same as ever). There are scenes where the Touhou characters are drinking, but underage drinkers will be punished, since there are laws against that sort of thing in Japan these days. Since there are no such things in Gensokyo, it's not a problem. (Underage drinking is not permitted by law in modern Japan, so I hope my underage users will abstain...)"

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Cherry_Blossom/Afterword

[Anonymous No.]

The amount of /v/ tier replies in this thread is quite high.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread was fine until some shithead came in and memed about Marisa's body not being small and underdeveloped and that an official artist's official drawings aren't canon.
Hopefully that guy fucked off so we could get back to actual lore discussions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20434280
There's been a recent influx of secondaries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20434761
>memed
I think that "p-p-pedosaka!!"-kun is just genuinely retarded. But yeah, moving on.

[Anonymous No.]

Everyone who was part of that discussion deserves public execution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20437999
You sure don't seem to want to stop talking about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20436724
Get off of 4channel and get back to making the fairies' manga, Hirasaka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20434761




Not a loli. Cry harder.

[Anonymous No.]

uhhhhhhh……… stop, please????

[Anonymous No.]

How many generations is Sanae away from Suwako at maximum? If Suwako is some ancient goddess, is Sanae mostly ainu?

[Anonymous No.]

Got any PC-98 stuff, lore-kun?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20442215
Not OP, and this is not lore (trivia I guess?), but some PC-98 characters are inspired by works of Izumi Takemoto

[Anonymous No.]

>>20434761
Still not a loli. Not even a JC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20446192
Nice headcanon

[Anonymous No.]

>>20438328
>>20446192
Can you fuck off?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20446970
Nice headcanon. Not a loli.

[Anonymous No.]

I wouldn't call Marisa a loli.

I'd call her a dwarf. I imagine she has pubes and all that, she's just absurdly small.

[Anonymous No.]

I would call Marisa a loli.

And fuck off with your monkey fetish shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>taller than children and fairies
>"loli"
Short and flat, but that's about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449290
This. Marisa is just short and is canonically around the same age as Reimu. Reimu has had tits since DDC. Neither of them are lolis.

[Anonymous No.]

Lore?
Just fap to the doujins and watch the music PV's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449390
>>20449205
Replied to the wrong post. Anyway...
>>20449290
Take your headcanon back to your ERP Discord.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20427376
He at least HAS his older characters treat younger ones as though the older characters are, if not adults, more mature people. Like Reimu feeling responsible for Kosuzu, her and "Marisa" taking care of actual kids, or Kosuzu complaining that Akyuu (who's older than her) treats her like a kid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449205
This. Marisa is just short and is canonically around the same age as Reimu. Reimu has had tits since DDC. Neither of them are lolis.
>>20449290
Nice headcanon. Go back to your ERP Discord.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449443
>age
Found the retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449384
>lolis can't be taller than other lolis
so if remilia was taller than flandre, that'd make her not a loli?
what fucked up """"logic"""" is this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449535
That's a canon fact you retard. Marisa and Reimu are generally around the same age. Reimu has had tits since DDC. Stop shitposting.
>>20449559
Who the fuck are you quoting, newfag? You're even more retarded. Reimu and Marisa are clearly teens. A teen is not a loli. That's like calling an adult woman a "tall loli". You can stop shitposting now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449581
>Stop shitposting.
And this is coming from the faggot lord that came in here out of nowhere because someone said his trigger word and now can't stop throwing a bitch fit.

You were already told this. Age has nothing to do in discussions about whether someone is a loli or not. That you keep bringing it up shows how utterly new you are. Now go back to Facebook or wherever you came from.

[Anonymous No.]

You people spent so much time here you forgot what an adult looks like.

[Anonymous No.]

thanks for ruining this thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449630
Short =/= Loli
Go back.
>>20449663
It's almost like there's a period between adulthood and childhood...it's almost like Reimu and Marisa are both teenagers or something...

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449713
Short, thin, largely-undeveloped == Loli
Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449806
Have you never seen a flat teenager before? Again, Reimu and Marisa are canonically around the same age. Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449713
You're right, Marisa is a teenager. With a body that's not very adult-like. In fact, it's quite child-like. Like what a loli would have. Hmm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449981
>age
It's really nice that your only argument here is also a big indicator of terminal newfaggotry. Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449986
Moe Hackrukawa at it again. Reminder that only Aya and ZUN get it right.
>>20449995
Marisa is not child sized or fairy sized or Remilia sized. Go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450044
>Moe Hackrukawa
>Pedosaka
Goddamn secondaries.

Whatever. You already said ZUN's art is not to be trusted and nobody gives a shit about Ayyyy-a so there you go. Conversation over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20449986
I would say it's fine that Tenshi looks like a child considering she's an eternally young celestial who ascended while she was, get this, a child

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450044
>Marisa is not child sized
Read the manga or go back.
Better yet, AND go back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450148
>>Marisa is not child sized
>Read the manga or go back.
?
>>20449384

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450139
>it's fine that Tenshi looks like a child
Who the fuck said it wasn't fine? (besides the alphes apologists, but they aren't here) Are you okay?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450158
I'm saying that there's a difference between literally an eternal child and "just a short girl".

I also don't really have strong feelings about this. I just know that Marisa is not a child. Hell for all I make fun of her for being short, she's hardly shorter than Reimu, and they're supposedly about the same age. Marisa just has never grown breasts, apparently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450163
just to be clear I'm not here for an argument, I've hardly made any posts in this thread regarding this topic and I'm not going to be convinced a midget is a loli just because they're short and don't really have tits

meh! mostly okay thread at least

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450157
Nice, using Harukawa as an example when not even 40 minutes ago you were calling her a hack because she was violating your headcanon.

You're just a shitposter. Well congrats, you baited me good AND killed the thread. I hope you're proud.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20450180
No, I never called her a hack. I don't have vitriol for any Touhou artist and think anyone who does is fucking insane

[Anonymous No.]

Thread has already been killed, but it's time for all of you to stop shitposting:

>>• About how tall is everyone?
>>Even a rough idea, like order of height, would be fine.
>>I personally wonder about how small the young girls, Cirno, Rumia and the fairies are.
>>About 120–130 cm?

>I might officially announce an order of height if there's a demand (since I set up a height comparison chart in
the production materials).

>However, backing up a bit...generally speaking, they're about as tall as girls in their early teens ['10代前半' means 10 to 14 years old]. A
suitable breakdown would be something like:
>Tall: Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari
>Fairly Tall: Reimu, Yuyuko, Alice, Letty, Ran
>Fairly Short: Marisa, Youmu, Patchouli, Lunasa, Merlin
>Short: Remilia, Lyrica, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Flandre
>Basically, if we consider the top level as the height of a human in her late teens or older ['10代後半以降' means 15 years old or above] and the bottom level as the height of a human in her early teens ['10代前半' ], that puts them in a fairly short class (though none of that level are human). If their sizes appear to be different on the game screen than given above, it's because of some mystic force like perspective, so pay it no mind. :-)

Marisa is just slightly taller than the likes of Remi, Cirno, and Rumia. So when shitposters like >>20450044 say she's not their size, it's only due to her being human, but even then it's just barely taller. If she's somehow not a loli due to height, what does that make them? After all, they are still considered to be the height of an early teenager according to ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

Can't trust Aki Eda
Can't trust Asai
Can't trust Harukawa
Can't trust Hirasaka
Can't trust Alphes
Can't trust ZUN

[Anonymous No.]

>>20451360
Remimder that ZUN said this before IN even existed and that Reimu now has boobs. Also, nice. Using the retarded guest artist who even made Yukari a loli. Literally worse than Pedosaka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20452642
ZUN is trustable for a basic outline of the design. The only other artist besides him that can be trusted is Aya, who is the only artist that receives direct input from ZUN. The rest are retards.

[Anonymous No.]

I was planning to do the Okina + Seija/Chen thinga that the other anons asked for this upcoming week but I have come back to see my thread raped by autists. I guess I'll make a new thread in the next few days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20453855
I will be waiting with bated breath.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20453823
>The only other artist besides him that can be trusted is Aya
>The rest are retards.
You keep saying this shit but never actually back it up with anything

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that Marisa is only a little smaller than Reimu and is not the toddler that Hirasaka and some other guest artists make her to be.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that Marisa is only a bit smaller than both Kanako and Sanae, who are certainly not even close to loli status.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that Marisa is a womanlet.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that Marisa is a just short teenager, not a toddleresque loli who is barely taller than a fairy.

[Anonymous No.]

Reminder that Reimu has has had tits since DDC and Marisa is only half a head smaller than her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20454861
ou keep on being retarded. Aya is the most ZUN-regulated artist. I gave an example several times in this thread. You can kill yourself out of shame now. Marisa is not the toddler sized loli like you want her to be. She's just a short teenager.