/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Why is the class of Rider so useless by comparison?

The only one it can beat in personal combat is Assassin, who isn't made to fight anyway.

It can manage against Berserker on its mount, but only because Berserkers are mindless rarghfghfg.

It works best against Saber on its mount, as Saber needs personal combat. But Saber (as the only Saber we've seen) has managed with her Noble Phantasm backing her.

It's worthless against Lancer or Archer, who can attack over/around the protection of a mount, and against Caster unless its mount is built against magic.

Only Alexander the Great was a good one, and that was thanks to sheer badassitude/Noble Phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991686

Obviously it would have to have a hypnotic effect or be a very skilled "I don't want to fight!"-er.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991686
>>1991694

You could invoke great politicians and heads of states.

Hitler.
Special abilities: manipulation, mass control
Noble Phantasm: Blitzkrieg.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991711
FUND IT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991685

Miang's Noble Phantasm forces the other servants to nuke each other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991535
Hell, you can apparently summon people from the future. Maybe someone with a huge fucking spaceship could get summoned and just laser everyone to death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991833

Summon: Ado Edem.

FUCK, THE POWERLEVELS, THEY'RE OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND

[Anonymous No.]

So, why do we never see "make your own holy grail war" threads, when people are clearly eager to suggest figures to fit into the various classes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991894
Well, we do. It has happened a few times before.

[Anonymous No.]

WELL AT LEAST IT'S BETTER THAN AVENGER

[Anonymous No.]

she lusts after Shirou's cock, so its ok

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991291
Hitting the reset button isn't THAT useless.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

Rider class, like Archer class, tends to rely on the strength of its Noble Phantasm to win. But Archers have range and might have multiple Phantasms.

Iskander was an insanely powerful Rider, by estimates.

[Anonymous No.]

Generally a Rider class servant at least has a really strong noble phantasm. Medusa's is very strong, unfortunately for her Saber's was stronger...

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991283
>It works best against Saber on its mount, as Saber needs personal combat. But Saber (as the only Saber we've seen) has managed with her Noble Phantasm backing her.
The Saber class also learns the Riding skill. Saber (Arturia) specifically can ride anything that isn't a divine/demonc beast with above average skill. This includes most vehicles like a motorcycle or a light airplane.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991299
More like, Shinji is a worthless master.

Sakura powered Rider in HF is fuckawesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991301
Doesn't change the fact that Saber is dominant in physical combat and a battle of noble phantasms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991283

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991299
>>1991300

ALL the Sabers should have a freakishly strong Noble Phantasm.

I mean, really. Legendary swords are all the fuck over heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythical_objects#Swords

Look at this shit.

[Anonymous No.]

I dunno, Iskander did pretty well for himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991291

As someone who know relatively little about the story, what/who is avenger in relation to the story and why is he weak? I'd think with a badass name like that he'd be somewhat useful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991314
Go play HF route.

And stay off of /jp/.

Sakura is the shadow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991315

Aw fuck.

*is halfway through HF, Assassin just got pwnt by Rider, thereby proving first clause of this thread*

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991314
Avenger is not a real Servant class. He was just some poor sap that got the short end of the straw when his village decided to blame him for all the evil humans committed in the world and sacrificed him for it. That's how he became a Heroic Spirit.

tl;dr HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991321

Unfortunately, due to how the "legend" of a Heroic Spirit works, when he actually got summoned he ACTUALLY WAS All The Evils Of The World.

Really dropped the ball on that one, Einzbern.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991319
But Assassin isn't the True Assassin class since he was summoned by a Servant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991327
>*is halfway through HF, Assassin just got pwnt by Rider, thereby proving first clause of this thread*

I somehow doubt they're talking about Kojirou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991327

I MEANT True Assassin.

Fake Assassin was long since dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991315

I don't mean to be rude, but I tried to play Tsukihime and I kind of grew tired of the main characters. After Nero, I pretty much lost all will to continue. I don't think I'd enjoy the story from the perspective of the main characters in Fate, but I enjoy reading about most of the various heroic spirits and what happens with them.

[Anonymous No.]

Inb4 Avenger-Lelouch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991300
Sweet, so Saber could pull a Terminator?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991336
Yeah, I was a bit pissed at Nrvnqsr punking out on the fourth day, but I kept going to the end, and it actually turned out quite worth it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>The Saber class also learns the Riding skill. Saber (Arturia) specifically can ride anything that isn't a divine/demonc beast with above average skill. This includes most vehicles like a motorcycle or a light airplane.

And Rider Class on the other hand USUALLY CAN ride anything, even a divine/demonc beast.

She would have own against Saber if not EX-CALIBUR!!!! because Rider played with her strengths as Saber.

Saber is not a "I win" class, it can lose when other classes play with their strengths ... Saber is just good at being a straightforward class, others have to think for a bit.

That is why True Assassin and Caster managed to beat her.

[Anonymous No.]

Not to mention that Rider's daggers begin to break against Shirou's body of swords in Fate route fight at the school. Riders the the short end of the stick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991345
She already has in F/Z.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991336

Okay, then.

Avenger is a villager from some Persian village of the far past. At a point in his life, his people (who were very religious) all turned on him and called him "Angra Mainyu", "All The Evils Of The World". Basically, a form of Satan. He was then promptly sacrificed. Since so many people believed him to be Angra Mainyu, he became a Heroic Spirit (as that's how heroes work).
During the Third Holy Grail War, he was summoned by the Einzberns in an attempt to get "the ultimate killer of humans". Well, they failed, and got some dude who everyone CALLED the ultimate killer of humans, but as >>1991323 put it, Legends.
Avenger then was a walking 6 billion curse ball, who sucked at fighting.
He got the SHIT kicked out of him in the 3rd war, and he was tossed into the Grail, and corrupted it until he got out in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991351
The whole point of my posting about Saber knowing how to Ride was to counter the OP saying that Rider works best vs Saber when on a mount. Because Saber class can also get a mount.

The only difference, like you posted, is that Riders can ride any creature or object that is not Dragon ranked.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>1991362
In HA, Avenger is a fake class. His only abilities are his weird daggers, which are bad, and his NP called Void Avesta: False Copy of Inscribed Creation... which, in summary, causes his opponents to feel the pain of his wounds when he's hurt. And his stats are terrible.

That's it.

He can also use the power of Angry Manjew to reset the day cycle at the expense of that cycle's Avenger becoming a shadow beast.

[Anonymous No.]

I find it to be hilarious that "ALL EVIL IN ZA WARUDO" can be so weak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991309
Claíomh Solais.

hells yes it'll blind you even more than Excalibur would

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991358
FUCK YEAH!

Damn, Saber always manages to come back from being the "plain" character compared to others thanks to stuff like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991374
That's the joke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991374

Again, he was just some dude.

It's only due to "legend" that he is 6 BILLION CURSES.

He's still some poor fuck, not a fighter.

[Anonymous No.]

Useless moe~

[Anonymous No.]

Depends on who you summon, really. Anyone with a mount can get to be a Rider, so you can summon practically about anyone (until like WW1, so planes and shit are actually possible, not to mention people like Rustem whose horse ate lions and shit)

Both Medusa and Iskander were crazy good Riders, too bad for them Arthuria and Gilgamesh were also really good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991309
According to that, Arthur had a dagger that could summon hellbeasts.

that would be completely awesome in Fate/Stay Night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991386

Avenger is pretty sexy, yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991391
What if saber had knights of the round table as a noble phantasm? fuuuuuuuck

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991367

But that is also the point, Rider is not going to ride anything that is not a divine/demonic beast or its equivalent.

Saber likely have a upper hand when another servant class that tries to take her on ridding.

In the end Saber is a well rounded class, no weakness but she also cannot be better that specific classes ... Berserker IS the strongest class for fighting but it only does that, Archer IS the strongest at ranged combat but only does that.

The game shows again and again Saber is NOT the best servant in everything ... Caster CAN win, Berserker CAN win, Assassin CAN win, Archer CAN win and Rider CAN win.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991394
>What if saber had knights of the round table as a noble phantasm?
That's not possible. Since Lancelot killed them, that's why his Noble Phantasm sword is all black despite it having the same origins as Excalibur. Albeit he didn't kill all of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991394
What would happen if Saber had that, and fought against another knight of the round table?

Would he have to attack himself?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991381

fuck yeah

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991405

PARADOX
HURT
BARZARKAR
THOUGHT PROCESSES

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991398
I never said Saber was the best class. I was just pointing out that Rider getting on a mount isn't necessarily going to whup on Saber because Saber can even the playing field by also getting on a mount. Then again it all depends on what the mount is. Since obviously Saber piloting a light airplane while Rider piloting a fighter jet is a case where the winner is clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991408
STOP HITTING YOURSELF
STOP HITTING YOURSELF
STOP HITTING YOURSELF

HA HA HA!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991412

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991398

>Caster CAN win, Berserker CAN win, Assassin CAN win, Archer CAN win and Rider CAN win.

B-but...

I thought Lancers were the most even of the classes!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991391
Hm, Must of been the persona summoning device of that age.

A dagger...so she'd slit her wrist to summon her persona.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991418
>I thought Lancers were the most even of the classes!
No. Lancers are the most SCREWED OVER classes.

Fate/Zero Lancer stabs himself with his spear when his own master uses his last command spell to force Lancer to do it.

Fate/Stay Night Lancer can't catch a fucking break and dies miserably in every scenario.

[Anonymous No.]

I admit I don't know much about how heroic spirits work, but would Baron Munchhausen qualify? If so, what class would he be?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991421
Including, of course, stabbing himself in the heart with his spear after his master uses the last command spell to make him do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991418
It goes without saying that an average Lancer can kick an average Saber's ass.

Remember your weapon triangle, kids.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991410

Its not "even the field", Saber could not touch Rider if she was stupid enough to try that ... in fact it would be worst because Rider would have even a greater advantage.

Remember, Rider used Pegasus ... not a Ford Focus ... Pegasus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991421
I'd say he "caught a break" in UBW.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991430
sword lasers > pegasus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991421

They're still the most even, just the most unlucky.

Lancers have greater range than anyone except Assassin and Archer.
Lancers have speed above all, only comparable by Saber, Assassin, and Rider Riding. And maybe Berserker if it's angry enough.
Lancers have mild projectile protection, fucking over Assassin and helping against Archer.
Lancers can have magic, as Cu Chulainn's Runes show us.
And pretty rock-awesome Noble Phantasms, as the article in >>1991309 points out a little lower.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991423
I'd say a Rider. Since he rode cannonballs to the Moon.

TO THE MOON ALICE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991432

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991428
So if "axe" is berserker, then why can't even Arturia kill Heracles without Caliburn or repeated (potentially draining) Excalibur use?

[Anonymous No.]

AKA Avenger. Angra Mainyu.
Real name is unknown. Or more like it was stripped away from him back in the days when he was alive.

A human that was freed from the confines Order by having his name expelled from the Avesta.

He was just a normal young guy with a normal father and mother and a little sister. One day, when he woke up, people started treated him differently. Then WHAM, a couple of villagers he'd never seen before knocked him down, pulled out his tongue, poked out an eye, cut his tendons, etc, etc, etc. Wouldn't kill him because he belonged to the village.

So they dragged him where he was exposed to the wrath of the people around him. Apparently he was a demon. Or rather a scapegoat for all the bad stuff that goes on on this little planet.

See, people back in that little closed-off part of the world wanted to make everybody in the world good. But since it was impossible to make everyone do good, they figured they could just prove the goodness of humanity.....by forcing all the evils of the world on one person and making it his responsibility or rather....fault. That way, no matter what, it would be impossible for anybody else to do "evil".

And so the ritual proceeded. They carved on him all of the words that curse mankind, gave him all the sins that they could muster, took out bits and pieces of him slowly. So he had this really big curse put on him as a result.

He was shocked at first at the senselessness of it at all. Eventually he started wondering who it was he should hate. Even his own father clipped off one of his toes. He realized that at that point it was useless to beg for mercy so he asked them one last question. Why him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991430
What if she used a Nissan Versa like all the cool Heroes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991442
Because Berserker is 20/20 with 60 hp and 40 power maximum. Which he caps.

And then there's that 12 lives deal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991442
Because Berserker uses an Axe-Sword, making him immune to all type-triangle effects.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991447
I think you mean Vimana.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991458

WHY DOES GILGAMESH NEED A SPACE SHIP

WHEN DID HE EVER GO TO SPACE

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991423
>>Chapter 4: Reflections on Saint Hubert's stag — Shoots a stag with cherry-stones; the wonderful effects of it — Kills a bear by extraordinary dexterity; his danger pathetically described — Attacked by a wolf, which he turns inside out — Is assailed by a mad dog, from which he escapes — The Baron's cloak seized with madness, by which his whole wardrobe is thrown into confusion

What the hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991464

He came from space.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991408
Step aside good sir knight! I have no quarrel with you!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991464
Owner of all the worlds treasures circa 3000bc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991446

cool story bro

care to give us full translation on FHA ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991465
He also rode a fucking cannonball to the fucking moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991470

Now I'm imagining Shirou as Patsy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991496
Oh really.

[Anonymous No.]

So what class would Paul Bunyan be? Obviously Babe would be a Noble Phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991528
Rider.

[Anonymous No.]

Could you summon a legendary fighter pilot as a rider? Fuck, imagine how awesome that would be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991535
...buddy

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991535
The Red Baron

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991538
Yo, buddy...still alive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991535

As long as he's genderswapped, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991535
>>1991557

Genderswaped Porco Rosso? Could want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991514
You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person! I blow my nose at you, so-called Ah-thoor Keeng, you and all your silly English K-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-niggits!

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck yeah, Joan. Here's a knight that doesn't need a genderswap to be awesome.

[2 shay No.]

I say.... where is your master?!!?.....{where did you get that coconut? .I found it.... YOU WHAT? Thats just crazy you don't just find a coconut... this is a temperate zone!!! coconuts are a tropic....

[Anonymous No.]

[Captain] Our king is the god of war. He always stands on the frontline and does not know defeat.
[Soldier 1] “She,” sir.
[Captain] What was that?
[Soldier 1] Our king is a woman, sir.
[Soldier 2] And quite a looker at that.
[Captain] He always stands on the frontline and does not know defeat! No one can stand in the way of-
[Soldier 1] Forgive me for speaking out of turn, Captain, but that’s definitely a woman.
[Soldier 3] Though it might be a man with coconuts in his armor.
[Soldier 2] Are you trying to say that our king carries fruits in her chest?
[Soldier 1] And where would those coconuts come from? Coconuts are tropical!
[Soldier 2] What do you mean?
[Soldier 1] Well, this is a temperate zone.
[Soldier 2] The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
[Soldier 1] Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
[Soldier 2] Not at all. They could be carried.

[Anonymous No.]

[Captain] Look! Our king’s dauntless figure has not changed since he-
[Soldier 1] Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
[Captain] QUIET! Our king has not changed since he pulled out the sword of selection! The king does not age, and he certainly does not walk around with coconuts pressed to his chest!
[Soldier 2] So our king is a woman?
[Soldier 3] And quite a looker at that
[Soldier 1] Am I right?
[Soldier 2] It could be carried by an African swallow!
[Soldier 1] Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow. That's my point.
[Soldier 2] Oh, yeah, I agree with that.
[Soldier 1] But then of course African swallows are non-migratory.
[Soldier 2] Oh, yeah.
[Soldier 1] So, they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway.
[Soldier 2] Wait a minute! Supposing two swallows carried it together?
[Captain] ENOUGH! Our king is the blooming god of war! He does not walk around with coconuts in his chest, he is not quite a looker, and there will be no having quickies with our king!
[Saber] Is there a problem, Captain?

[Anonymous No.]

Jeanne D'Arc would be an awesome Rider.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991595
Holy shit, what's the tag on Pixiv for Joan of Arc?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991557
I approve of genderswapped heroes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991612

ジャンヌ is one that I found.

[Arcbound No.]

>>1991470
>>1991514
>>1991583
>>1991604
>>1991606
FLAWLESS VICTORY.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991604
>>1991606
I don't know, I think I prefer the original.

[Captain] Our king is the god of war. He always stands on the frontline and does not know -
[Soldier 1] “She,” sir.
[Captain] What was that?
[Soldier 1] Our king is a woman, sir.
[Soldier 2] And quite a looker at that.
[Captain] He always stands on the frontline and does not know defeat! No one can stand in the way of-
[Soldier 1] Forgive me for speaking out of turn, Captain, but that’s definitely a woman.
[Soldier 3] Though it might be a man with coconuts in his armor.
[Soldier 2] Are you trying to say that our king carries fruits in her chest?
[Captain] His chest! Look! Our king’s dauntless figure has not changed since he-
[Soldier 1] “She,’ sir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991633
[Captain] Stop speaking of our king as if he were some common two-pence tramp! He, and I do mean he, is the incarnation of a dragon! He will lead us to victory against-
[Soldier 1] “She,” sir!
[Captain] I’ve had enough out of you!
[Soldier 1] With all due respect, Captain, you’re a bloody loony! I am loyal to the king, but the king is a woman!
[Soldier 2] And quite a looker at that!
[Soldier 3] I wouldn’t mind having a quickie with her, if you know what I mean!
[Captain] ENOUGH! Our king is the blooming god of war! He does not walk around with coconuts in his chest, he is not quite a looker, and there will be no having quickies with our king!
[Saber] Is there a problem, Captain?
[Captain] Y… your majesty, I-
[Soldier 1] Your majesty… you’re a woman, right?
[Saber] …my gender is meaningless. I am the wielder of Excalibur and the King of Britain.
[Soldier 3] …so she’s a hermaphrodite?

[Anonymous No.]

Did Rin mention that it's possible for "other" classes to be summoned, just rare?

Avenger is one of these, what might be others?

Brawler/Grappler class? Manipulator class (politician etc.)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991678
>Didn't Rin say

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991678
>Manipulator class

Do want. She might end up manipulating me, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991678
I am the Servant Manipulator, could you please listen to my terms of agreement?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991894
They seem to be more common in /a/.

[Anonymous No.]

Alexander the Great I can understand, but why is Medusa a Rider class servant?

How did Nasu come up with that association?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991833
Don't you need something that the hero owned or was associated with to summon them or is that just to improve the chances? I believe Archer was only summoned because he had something that was Rin's rather than the other way around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991833
>>1991535
>legendary fighter pilot
>people from the future

Fuck yeah Max Jenius

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993350
Pegasus sprouted from her dismembered neck, i believe

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993350
No class really works with her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993350
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa
>When the hero severed Medusa's head, from her neck two offspring sprang forth: the winged horse Pegasus and the giant Chrysaor who later became the hero wielding the golden sword.
Shit doesn't make sense, but that's Nasu for ya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993537
It was from her blood, which is why she stabs herself when she does Bellerophon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993474
It just improves the chances. Personal affinity is what takes care of the choice in other cases. FSN Rider and (True) Assassin were likely selected that way, and possibly Lancer and Caster as well. Berserker likely had some relation to the temple used in the summoning (and later as his axe-sword) or the ritual performed therein, Saber had Avalon and Archer had the pendant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993563
Bazett had Lancer's earrings IIRC as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1991358
>>1991381

EXCALIBUR CHARGING SABER ON A BIKE, FUCK YEAH!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1993679
HOLY FUCK