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/jp/ - Otaku Culture


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19505615 No.19505615 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Why is the touhou fanbase at least in the west attracting all the weirdoes ? After spending years here I can say without a doubt that touhou seems to gather only the looniest, loneliest, abuse friendly, depressed and "I want to be a girl" weebs of the bunch. What's with touhou apparently making it so easy to fantasmize about being a cute little girl used and abused by cool and strong onee-sans and shit and not another obscure japanese franchise ?

>> No.19505712
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19505712

I remember when I was reading touhou yuri doujins by the dozen while listening to Tatu already 10 years ago. Did touhou turn me into a little girl or were I one all along ?

>> No.19505715
File: 205 KB, 481x317, 1530240871466.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19505715

It's got a metric fuckton of content, lore, and characters, it's encouraging of headcanon, it's got some porn and some fanart, it's weird, niche, and caters to multiple demographics, interest-groupings, and it inherently caters to many fetishes without even trying, just with the baseline content and characters. It's fan-driven, and almost all content is free. Nothing else can really compare to Touhou and it's potential.

>> No.19505722

>>19505615
How do you know all my fetishes?

>> No.19505730
File: 129 KB, 314x278, 1522043404017.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19505730

>touhou
>obscure

>> No.19505791
File: 159 KB, 1023x1335, 1531346978285.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19505791

>>19505722

Because I absolutely didn't make this thread as a result of dreaming that I was Mystia kept as a slave and an abuse friendly arousal relief tool by Youmu and Yuyuko wanting to "eat me up" some more. Waking up realizing that I will never be a cute loli licking Youmu's sweaty armpits after her training while she verbally degrades me and physically push me around was yet another great disapointment in my life.

Basically I'm you, anon.

>> No.19505810

>>19505715

You almost rekindled the flame in my heart for touhou after this beautiful description.

>> No.19505816

no matter how much secondaries come in im glad that their headcanons will never be official canon

>> No.19505903

How come all the Tewi fans are usually either closet or massive fags

>> No.19505941

>>19505816
Headcannons shouldn’t ever be taken seriously eitherway

>> No.19505989

>>19505730

Don't let this echo room fool you. Touhou is obscure as fuck among everyone and even weebs. Most weebs have no fucking idea of what it is beside one in a hundred vaguely knowing that the baka blue ice girl is from some kind of arcade nip hardocre ugly old game.

>> No.19506001
File: 592 KB, 900x1271, 1531350077968.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506001

>>19505903

Bunnies are made to be loved (abused) so it's normal that Tewi who can be understood as the ultimate little girl (onahole) or as the ultimate sexual bully for other rabbits attracts a weird crowd.

>> No.19506061

>>19506001
I dont really mean weird, I meant literal unironic homosexuals

>> No.19506144
File: 164 KB, 786x1017, color_wheel_10_hinanawi_tenshi_by_lyiet-d963pnb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506144

>>19505615
Dunno, I don't even play touhou.

I'm only here for the occasional Ran and Tenshi threads cause they're both adorable.

>> No.19506157
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19506157

>>19506061

You wouldn't be gay for Tewi's big throbbing futa cock ?

>> No.19506173

>>19506144
This is what's wrong with /jp/. Stupid secondary scum who aren't even Touhou fans.

>> No.19506190
File: 89 KB, 400x325, 1529015615899.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506190

That is truly a mystery. I remember that before traps were basically the butt of a joke in anime community, but nowadays there are people who are seriously trying to become traps themselves, since life did not give them pussy. I think it may be linked with that, or at least be related.
Touhou presents a very open world for imagination as >>19505715 pointed out, and for sexually frustrated young men (most male Touhou fans) this offers quite a space to fantasize about things. Erotic and romantic doujins quite certainly do not help with not developing this sort of fantasies.

Then again, it may be that we only notice so much weirdos because either a) we've been exposed so much to the fanbase and we can notice the loonies more easily, b) the loonies are a vocal minority, or c) western Touhou fans are simply as autistic as bronies.

>> No.19506203
File: 1.20 MB, 600x338, 1440909927539.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506203

>>19506173
Just be glad that I rarely ever post anon.

>> No.19506210
File: 293 KB, 938x1104, 1529882171812.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506210

>>19505903
>all
Not me. I'm a Tewi fan because I want to destroy her sexy little body with my cock.

>> No.19506238
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19506238

> After spending years here I can say without a doubt that touhou seems to gather only the looniest, loneliest, abuse friendly, depressed and "I want to be a girl"
Hmm, truly a mystery of this site.

>> No.19506244

>>19506190

>or c) western Touhou fans are simply as autistic as bronies.

I think that as a collectivity we finally need to accept the hard, cold, truth.

>> No.19506272
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19506272

>>19506210

Would you impregnate the litter of your bunny daughters she'll give birth to too ?

>> No.19506329

>>19506190

>but nowadays there are people who are seriously trying to become traps themselves, since life did not give them pussy.

It's more linked to the lack of perspective as a man than the lack of pussy. Feminity, cute girls and shit are overhyped as fuck. And let's not even delve into the slutty side of the trap subculture where it's just sissy hypno and "become porn" at full blast 24/7.

That being said any concurrence against the women monopoly on pussy is ultimately good for civilization. Boipussi is good pussy.

>> No.19506346
File: 436 KB, 552x720, youmu_sad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506346

Where did it go so wrong, /jp/?

>> No.19506368

>>19506346

From what standpoint ?

>> No.19506426
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19506426

>>19506272
Absolutely. I'd fill their tiny wombs with my seed every day until I made sure every single one of them was pregnant. I'd also breed with Tewi as soon as possible, so she can give me even more bunny daughters for me to impregnate.
It'd probably cause overpopulation in Gensokyo, but when I think about Tewi's small and soft body, and how tight and hot her insides must be, I just can't care about the consequences even if I try.

>> No.19506432
File: 55 KB, 700x426, 55cd590f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506432

>>19506210
Stop wanting rabbit pussy.

>>19506329
Stop liking boipussy.

>> No.19506546

>>19506432

If I listen enough dunkelheit will the pagan gods spirit me away to gensokyo as the first nordic mythology touhou ?

>> No.19506560

>>19506329
>tfw females will be obsolete in our lifetime
Feels good.

>> No.19506578

>>19506560
Who are you quoting?

>> No.19506602

>>19506578
My brain

>> No.19506663
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19506663

>>19506546
Only if you manage to defeat the guardian of the Norse Gods!

>> No.19506748

>>19506663

I can also burn a church if they insist but I can't stab a friend 37 times in self defense because I don't have any friend though.

>> No.19506799
File: 31 KB, 456x304, varg-vikernes-earsplitpr1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19506799

>>19506748
Very well then. Burn the church, and you will become the next Touhou game's final boss, for the honour of Norse gods.

>> No.19506827
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19506827

>>19506799

Which mythological being will I be though ? Can I be a 3rd boss instead ? I don't want to be a momhou or an onee-san.

>> No.19506859

Filling Reisen's abused womb

>> No.19506880

What a kuso thread.

>> No.19506999
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19506999

>>19506859

Will you pretend to love me when you're finished ?

>> No.19507006

>>19506880

Impossible, it's not a general.

>> No.19507082
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19507082

>>19505615
so all of this is true in japland too, worse in some cases, but you've addressed the west: and this abomination is far worse than anything nihon can imagine.

The Western fanbase of Touhou (and by this I almost exclusively mean America but Europe does enter into it too, Spain and Mexico being particularly horrible; the term Western in this context usually to mean outside Japan) brings only bad. When this statement is made, western apologists (likely the awful content creators themselves) tend to make the argument:
>but Japan had so much bad stuff too. You only see the good things.
And it is here they make my argument for me. The Japanese fanbase has actually made GOOD things. Doujin manga, games, fanime, artwork, music, cosplay (beyond the abilities of the West), MMD videos, MADs, etc. Has the West produced anything of similar quality to even average level of each of these? The answer is, of course, no.

The West thrives in laziness. This is seen most prominently in the most popular creation tool in it for a long time, Walfas. Walfas is designed from the ground up to have as little effort as possible needed to use it. The best thing to come out of it in my opinion was Reimu fights the bad guys of adrkness, the worst being of course ditr. Hispanic countries use it to this day.

While the Japanese fanbase presents stories in the form of doujin manga with great illustrations (for the most part) or, rarely, in novel form; this is far too much work and skill required for the lowly American. This creature resorts to a far easier tool: fanfiction. While it can be argued that the previously mentioned Japanese forms of writing are technically fanfiction, the doujin manga requires artistic talent in drawing and the rare novel is similar to fanfic, but actually bound and sold usually with illustrations too. The Japanese writing can be an incredible use of the source material while the western equivalents are usually edgy, smut, extremely poorly written resulting in a cringing experience, or awful crossover crossover.

In terms of art, the West suffers probably the worst. In Japan, the characters are drawn in an even average attempt with good anatomy and a cute, if somewhat generic, style. The better works being of incredible style and detail, with either cute, funny, dark (occasionally edgy but the detail and style make up for it), or interesting depending on the character and how their backstory, relationship, abilities, or personality is portrayed . The artists of the West don't even know how to draw the human figure, the human face, or anything without dipping to drawing popular memes. No genuine artistic attempts are made simply memes. You could say my earlier praise of 'funny' subject in art of the east but they are funny without relying on memes. Forget detail, interesting subject matter, or good style, the West draws like a child who scribbled something and their parents said it was great do the child kept doing it thinking it was good. In fact, it's almost like they confuse 'style' for artistic ability as seen in a lot of western artists who find some gimmick but can't draw anything outside of that. Remember, Picasso first had to paint like Rembrandt before he could paint like Picasso.

The West barely puts out games since they take effort. The most recent attempt, a warioware clone called Nitorinc, is laughable when you look into its development. The developers do not care about releasing it or finishing it at all. They slowly add on to it with no end in sight. Despite this they have a steam page with the tragic misinformation that it will come out one day, but that day will never come. Compare to the Japanese developers who put out games far, far beyond nitorinc in far less time. The fact that Nitorinc is one of a literal handful of western games shows my point here. Going through all the Japanese games would simply embarrass them.

I don't think I even need to bring up fanime when all the West has is the single shitty voice drama, walfas PowerPoint presentations, and undertale crossovers.

Music is funny. I think Indonesia and Russia are some of the western fanbase that puts out music at all. Americans dub bad apple and call it a day or simply do guitar covers. My favourite western Touhou song to this day is still that faggot singing about Cirno.

What more can I say? The West doesn't have an equivalent to MMD or MADs. In conclusion, the West is a joke of a community. Places like reddit and tumblr embarrass everyone. The only place of positive content creation is unironically /jp/. This place has put out good stuff and it's far better than anywhere else. Shit, the oc threads have better art than anywhere else in the English speaking world.

>> No.19507096
File: 108 KB, 600x386, Honer, Mimir and Kvasir.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19507096

>>19506827
>>19506827
You'll be Hœnir (left), so don't worry, youll have Mimir (center) as your hag onee-san.

>> No.19507115
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19507115

>>19507082
But why is Japan so much better than the west in a these regards? This is a personal theory, but I believe it to be a result of not only the discipline that is demanded in Japanese school life, but also the importance of art in their society, by this I mean comiket. Thanks to comiket and pixiv, it is viable to be an artist in Japan. Because of this, competition grows and being a good artist matters. Meanwhile in a West, nobody cares. See tumblr for an example of the quality of art. Japan artists today were also influenced by well drawn anime while Western influences include poorly drawn children's cartoons. Japanese are more demanding while the West wants all to be the best and forgives lack of ability in a desire not to seem mean. The importance of art as a medium and a career has completely diminished in the west while it thrives in Japan, and being a good artist is a point of pride and fame. This goes for all, music, doujin manga, shit even MMD and MADs. The general higher IQ of Asians probably has something to do with it as well.

In conclusion, nuke America. Banzai Nippon.

>> No.19507127

>>19507115
Nuke Russia and Europe*
FTFY

>> No.19507142

>>19507082
So many letters to drive home the simple point that Amercans can't draw in anime style.

>> No.19507156

to start with, every time the west tries to make content ZUN freaks out and shuts them down with legal threats, so only the most pathetic westerners stick around and all the good content creators are forced to go elsewhere

>> No.19507205

>>19507082
>>19507115
A harsh outlook but i'm inclined to say that it's true. How do we remedy this?
>>19507156
>every time the west tries to make content ZUN freaks out and shuts them down with legal threats
What? can you give one example?

>> No.19507235

>>19507205
He proposed a solution as well.

>> No.19507264

>>19507115
Needless to say that community is also important. When you live in a doujin country like Japan it will give you needed encouragement and motivation.
>>19507156
If you refer to fanSmash incident the fagoots started KS despite the rules.

>> No.19507272

>>19507156
Westerners have produced doujinshi, fan comics, fan music, and fan games without fanfare or interference just by following the guidelines helpfully laid out by ZUN.

>> No.19507283

>>19507235
Nuking America? that's just not right.
I believe there must be burgeoning young fan artists out there despite the culture of the west.

>> No.19507327
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19507327

>>19505615
I don't think Touhou fans are as bad as people make them out to be. I think /jp/ culture is just making Touhou fans look worse as a whole than they actually are to some extent. Sure, there's a lot of fetishy people only there for the porn, but I still think Touhou, just by the fact that it is less accessible than, say, anime, to the (western) masses make an overall more quiet, less powerlevel-y audience. In pictures of cringy weeaboos, how often are Touhou fans lumped in there? The type of people you see on "weeaboo cringe compilation 6" are usually fujoshits and random teens who think they're ninjas from Naruto.

>>19507115
I would like to make a couple of points against this argument. My first point is that there is no true equivalent to "doujin culture" in the West in general. As a consequence, there is less of an incentive to produce fan content. The thought process among many potential western fan content producers may go something like this: "Japan produces so many fanworks for Touhou, why should I bother trying?" As >>19507115 pointed out, Comiket is a massive incentive for doujin circles in Japan to continue expanding and producing content, because it provides an opportunity for up-and-coming artists to profit from fanworks from core content such as Touhou Project, etc.

The second is that Touhou fans are not as concentrated in the West as they are in Japan. Touhou is something of an anomaly in terms of large internet fanbases/subcultures: all the games are free and more or less easily accessible. So is a massive quantity of art available through Pixiv and the boorus and a massive quantity of fangames available through Touhou fansites like Moriya Shrine. My point is that Touhou is a free product, consumers of Touhou works do not need to pay to access the content. As a consequence, or perhaps even as a cause, ZUN has zero marketing budget. He has no intention to localize Touhou and spread both the work itself and the profits he receives from the work by hiring a team of localizers and advertisers. The bottom line is that Touhou is a Japanese game. The only reason western fans know the semantical content expressed in the language of Touhou is either if they know Japanese (very unlikely) or if they read one of the many, many fan translators of Touhou official and fan work.

Essentially, the Western fanbase is far smaller and far less tightly-knit than the Japanese fanbase and as a consequence of there being little Western equivalent to doujin culture, there is far less fan content as a whole.

>> No.19507350 [DELETED] 
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19507350

>>19507082
>>19507115
These posts made me genuinely FUCKING ANGRY! Why did I have to be born in the wrong side of planet? Why did I have to be raised in an inferior culture?

Is there anything we can do to raise "the west" out of its miserable hole?

>> No.19507369

>>19507327
>all the games are free
They aren't. It's just ZUN doesn't give a damn if you pirate his shit.

>> No.19507431
File: 2.29 MB, 3507x2480, 64018149_p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19507431

>>19507327
You are correct in that there is no doujin culture and that is what I meant by comiket being a place where someone can actually live off their art. Your second point is true, but even of things big and native to western nations there is nothing on the level of Japan in any regard, this is likely tied with the first point. I believe it is a combination of multiple reasons and the ones from my earlier post are still valid, their level of actual impact may differ though.

>> No.19507441
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19507441

>>19507115
>>19507082
These made me FUCKING ANGRY AT WEST! Why did I have to be born on the wrong side of the planet? Is there any way we can save the western fandom, or should we stop treating it as one and focus only on our own countries' communities?

>> No.19507456

>>19507441
>own countries communities
tfw your country has no community ;_;

>> No.19507458

>>19507441
Gandhi says to be the change you want to see in the world.

>> No.19507475

>>19507456
this
and even if there was one it would be complete shit probably

>> No.19507481

>>19507458
So that's why he was nuking all people around him.

>> No.19507642
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19507642

>>19507369
Yeah, pretty much. Also, his policy towards fan works is extremely lenient and it always has been. In fact, I think ZUN enjoys quite a few Touhou fanworks!
>>19507431
I shouldn't have titled my response to his post as an "argument", perhaps "causal factors" or something to that effect. What I'm trying to say is that the Japanese fanbase isn't inherently "better" because it's Japanese and the western fanbase isn't inherently "worse" because it's not Japanese, but that there are other cultural and economic factors behind this perceived discrepancy in the quality of the fan-produced content by the western fans of Touhou as opposed to the Japanese fans.

>> No.19507683
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19507683

>>19507642
The geographical locations are coincidencental, those factors are just specific to those regions so I simplify it by naming them directly. You could say here rhY 'Japan' consists of the economic and cultural factors which lead to this level of quality doujin work while 'the west' consists of the countries where these factors don't exist. That's what I meant in use of those terms.

>> No.19507800
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19507800

>>19507683
Okay. Assuming you are >>19507082, I just figured that you were using the typical "otaku" reductionist view that "Japan = sugoi" and "every country other than japan = not sugoi". Excuse my outburst.

>> No.19507901
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19507901

>>19507800
In terms of fan content produced for Touhou, Japan is far better than anything for simple reasons you and I stated such as concentrated fanbase, feasible opportunities for artists to live off their work, popularity and importance of the works in the culture, influences, etc. My point was not merely that Japan is so good, but that the west is so incredibly bad.

>> No.19507960

>>19505989
This hasn't been true for years. My younger brother has narutard friends that bought 2hu games on steam.

>> No.19508018
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19508018

>>19507327
>I don't think Touhou fans are as bad as people make them out to be.
Personally I've stopped interacting with anyone who has a Touhou avatar/display pic on forums, and stopped associating myself with Touhou because I can't stand the fans it attracts. This might sound a little bit hypocritical, given nobody should care what I think, but the average Touhou fan comes off obnoxious and self-centered, and even dips into hardcore elitism from time to time to act superior.

Though, to disagree with OP, I've found south-east asians to be the worst Touhou fans.

>> No.19508050
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19508050

>>19508018
I can understand that. I think that rule could be extended to anime profile pictures in general, with possibly a few exceptions.

>> No.19508061

>>19507960

I also used to love Naruto until it became the worst shonen ever conceived in the middle of shitpukeden. I think that I coincidentally started liking touhou at the same time as naruto like 12-13 years ago.

>> No.19508102

>>19508061

Browsing through very old pictures to confirm that I realize that even before touhou I had Dtiberius and Niku Ringo pictures along many futa on shota pictures already saved when I was at best 12 years old. I guess I was a faggot before touhou.

>> No.19508345

If something is is popular there is always some people you don't like or don't agree with. You don't need a thread to state the obvious.

There's always more good people than bad.

There's literally a small group of people with narrow opinions who make most of the threads on this board, which has been detected through stylometry software.

People who are vocal or stand out in some way are always misrepresented as a larger share of the population than they really are.

>> No.19508392
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19508392

>>19506426
Truly a man of culture.
Bunnies are to be in pregnant status during most of their lives.

>> No.19508433

>>19508345
>There's always more good people than bad
Clearly, you've never visited Ukraine.

>> No.19508497

>>19508018
>and even dips into hardcore elitism from time to time to act superior.
I get what you mean, it's so common for fans to attack anything "secondary" for validation or use it to categorize anything they don't like.

>> No.19508564

>>19508497
Shut up, secondary.

>> No.19508988

>>19507115
In Japan, poor performance brings shame and dishonour. In the west, it has, unfortunately, become the norm.

>> No.19509452

>>19508988
Poor performance is the norm everywhere, the Japanese simply don't talk about their own and make an effort not to show it in public as often.

>> No.19509530

>>19508497
Just because someone calls you out on you trying to pass your headcanon as fact doesn't mean they're the villain. Secondaries should be put in their place.

>> No.19509568

>>19509530
I've seen people claim that others are secondaries because they have less 1ccs than them, they have normal 1ccs, saying they like EoSD or X song or 2hu due to being popular. People being retarded deserve to be put in their place, but claiming anything you don't like as a secondary is just stupid and makes you look as your average basedboy/cuck/seething poster.

>> No.19509598 [DELETED] 

>>19509568
1. Don't try to talk about your normal score in a den of angry lunatic players
2. Keep EoSDshit out of non-EoSD threads
3. You deserve to be called secondary if if you praise early Touhou while shitting on new Touhou.
I don't understand, these guidelines should be self explanatory to anything who has frequented this board for even a month.

>> No.19509606

>>19509568
1. Don't try to talk about your normal score in a den of angry lunatic players
2. Keep EoSDshit out of non-EoSD threads
3. You deserve to be called secondary if if you praise early Touhou while shitting on new Touhou.
I don't understand, these guidelines should be self explanatory to anybody who has frequented this board for even a month.

>> No.19509742

There you have it: the definition of "secondary" is anyone you don't like.

>> No.19509811
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19509811

>>19508018
>the average Touhou fan comes off obnoxious and self-centered, and even dips into hardcore elitism from time to time to act superior
I recognized myself from this, although I never stopped to think about it until now. Thanks anon for frankly pointing it out.

>Though, to disagree with OP, I've found south-east asians to be the worst Touhou fans
Really? Care to elaborate on how are they "the worst"?

>> No.19509910

>>19509742
the definition of secondary is your mom

>> No.19510002

>>19509742
The definition of secondary is (you)
Fuck off from /jp/

>> No.19510013

What's the actual definition of secondary?

It used to mean someone who gets their opinions and impressions from Touhou from memes and other fan content over actual canon, but now it's just used as a random insult.

>> No.19510027

>>19510013
A secondary, in essence, is someone who prefers secondary works to official content. However, it is also used as an insult towards those deemed plebian (ex: EoSDtards, easy mode players, etc).

>> No.19510051

>>19510027
Seems to be a stupid thing to argue over, why would anyone care if I like remixes more than original songs or doujins more than original manga if I am familiar with those too and don't make mistakes when discussing the setting?

>> No.19510081

>>19510051
Elitism, wanting to fit in or autism.

>> No.19510093

>>19510051
That's literally the definition of secondary, though. No point in trying to deny it. Don't forget you're on /jp/. This is autism central.

>> No.19510110

>>19510093
It's not the definition. The definition of secondary is someone who, due to bad knowledge of canon (aka primary sources, scientific term) confuses canon and fanon.

>> No.19510119

>>19510110
That is one way of putting it, yes. But many people have conflated it to mean different things. What I gave you was the most popular definition around here. Sorry that you prefer secondary works, secondary.

>> No.19510173
File: 17 KB, 240x240, sooikaah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19510173

>>19505615
I have to admit that I like pretending to be an idiot online. Just remember, online != real life. That associate professor in your university, he might be a Touhoufag. Just a thought.

>>19507115
If you have played lots of Japanese indie games, you can see that the Japs have lots of discipline. They managed to churn out lots of indie products. The only criticism I have is that they severely lack in creativity. The Japs indie guys doesn't seem to like going out of their comfort zone.

Westerners, specifically Yurop and the Americas, seems to value the "creativity" more but lacking in discipline. Just look at the graveyard of Kikestarters, Patreons, and other similar platforms. Some of the ideas expressed there are quite amazing, but they lack the necessary self discipline to complete it. They want to exert the least amount of effort but gain a huge reward through "creativity". Not a bad strategy, but I do think a certain amount of discipline is still needed.

American culture encourage convenience. Why do I need to remember these when I can Google everything? Click here to save the world, or sign this petition etc. Which is fine and good but some inconveniences, such as reading Loomis, have to be endured. Sad to say, but this "cult of convenience" seems to be growing.

As for IQ, probably it's the amount of Chinese characters that needed to be remembered just to read the newspaper. I don't know if it's worth it. I remember being caned for not remembering some characters when I was a child. Had to get up at 5 am as well.

>>19508018
I usually just ignore all people who wear "otaku" merchandise. Which includes Touhou.

What if you hear someone humming Touhou music though? Whenever I got a good day, I usually hum some Touhou tune while riding in the tube unconsciously.

>> No.19510242

>>19507082
So a Japanese game has better fan content in Japan than elsewhere.
I for one am shocked. How the west has shamed itself. We should comitt honorable seppuku.

>> No.19510783

>>19510242
Not just that, as I said later on, it's not that the Japanese content is so good but that the western content is so atrocious.

>> No.19510838

>>19507096
>humon(gous)

>> No.19510966

>>19510173
>American culture encourage convenience.
Observe all the self-described anime fans vigorously defending dubs on the basis that reading is too difficult and they want to have the anime on in the background without having to look at the screen.

>> No.19511299

>>19509742
I always knew Jews were secondaries

>> No.19511317

>>19510966
> vigorously defending dubs on the basis that reading is too difficult and they want to have the anime on in the background without having to look at the screen
I don't even watch anime anymore (1 title in a year, maybe) but this raised my blood pressure.

>> No.19511326

>In the West
>Implying it isn't weird in japan
dumbass

>> No.19511333

>>19505615
Love Live fans are even worse.

>> No.19511789

>>19505615
This:
>>19505715

It’s because ZUN is one of the the closest things to a myth-maker in otaku culture, a sorcerer whose creations generate so much interest, beliefs and desires all by themselves, and where he himself has become something of a legend.

To them he’s like a Homer, a Virgil, a Beowulf author, a Shakespeare.
Or a St. Paul, a Milton, a Tolkein.
Or a Chretien de Troyes, a Wagner.
Or a Stoker, a Shelley, a Lovecraft.
Or a Verne, a Wells, an Asimov.
Or a Burroughs, a Ballard, a Gibson.
Or a Robert Johnson, a Beatles, a Jimi Hendrix.

You get the picture. If idols be the saints then the Touhou characters are a pantheon, gods to the otakus moulded from the clay of their own very unique personalities and desires, and the positive-feedback loop of canon to fanon and back again just amplifies the intensity.

>> No.19511934

>>19511789
How is Saint Paul a 'myth-maker' according to you? You're saying Paul came up with Jesus? Because that really doesn't make any sense at all.
Other than that i agree with you, content creators like ZUN are really few and far between. There really is nobody quite like him out there today.

>> No.19511956

>>19508392

I'd mating press that pregnant bunny until it induces labor !

>> No.19511971

>>19509606

>3. You deserve to be called secondary if if you praise early Touhou while shitting on new Touhou.

I can only picture you as a battered poor wife beaten and marital raped every night by a drunk and angry ZUNsbando.

>> No.19512011

>>19511789

>a Wagner

ZUN confirmed Shinto essentialist far right preacher ?!

>> No.19512017

You're a secondary if you haven't played the main games, that's it

>> No.19512086

>>19512017
This. You're not a secondary if you prefer a remix over original what the fuck are these anons talking about.

>> No.19512151

>>19512017
This this. A secondary is someone whose sole interest in a series comes from its secondary works, in Touhou's case it's someone who doesn't give a shit about its official games and thinks fanmade material is all there is to it. Nothing to do with hating new games because they're new, that's called being a faggot but it's an entirely separate issue from being a secondary.
The main problem here is that eternal summer is onto /jp/ once again so all the cool kids who started using the internet this year found out about this "secondary" insult that gets used all the time on /jp/, causing them to believe that they'll win any internet battle as long as they call their opposition a secondary. This sort of behavior is nothing unusual in the current 4chan, really.

>> No.19512156

>>19512151
>official games
Or rather, official works in general. Manga, books, sealing club albums and whatnot all count.

>> No.19512159

>>19506272
My dick!

>> No.19512177

>>19512017
What if I played them for 5 seconds each before losing interest?

>> No.19512186

>>19512177
Then you should stop playing EoSD and play IN instead

>> No.19512191

>>19512186
I downloaded and tried every single 2hu game. Found literally no reason to try playing beyond level 1.

>> No.19512198

>>19512191
based retard poster

>> No.19512201

>>19512191
You are the definition of secondary.

>> No.19512205

>>19512201
My knowledge of canon is still superior to yours.

>> No.19512210

>>19512205
>My knowledge of canon is superior
>He thinks every Touhou game is a scrolling shmup

>> No.19512215

>>19512210
Please quote me claiming that every Touhou game is a scrolling shmup.

>> No.19512216
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19512216

>>19512191
>>19512205

I'm a unrepentant shit poster but that, THAT, is plainly disgusting.

>> No.19512224

>>19512216
I mean all of it. Well, 5 seconds is an obvious exaggeration, but the point stands.

>> No.19512229

>>19512215
>My knowledge of Touhou is superior

>> No.19512233

>>19512229
1)That's not what you claimed I was saying
2)You managed to misquote me.

>> No.19512238

>>19512233
You just said "My knowledge of canon is still superior to yours"

>> No.19512239
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19512239

After reading all of this thread I can say without a doubt that touhou was a mistake.

>> No.19512247

>>19512238
Yes, and?

>> No.19512252

>>19512247
Well you're a big dumb dumb

>> No.19512257

>>19512017
The self-proclaimed primaries are the bottom of the barrel of what passes for a Touhou fandom here. They know or care nothing about literally anything related to Touhou except the raw game mechanics (unless they're just pretending to play them), and even think that anyone who has any interest in other things is a secondary. Including ZUN himself. And the entire JP fandom of course. I'm surprised they still haven't modded the game to remove all the graphics, sound and story. You know, all that secondary shit.

>> No.19512260

>>19511934
Please don’t get me wrong, I of course don’t think that St. Paul made up Jesus and The Gospel. I mentioned him because he was prolific. His epistles and the way they were written were crucial to the beginnings of Christianity and its success.

Creativity isn’t just about making stuff up, it’s being able to channel ideas, beliefs and desires into a great, clear voice that speaks to and resonates in the hearts of others.

>> No.19512262

>>19512252
No you are.

>> No.19512265

>>19512257
>ZUN is a secondary
Now this is some woke shit

>> No.19512268

>>19512257
>except the raw game mechanics
Ohoho, have you ever tried actually discussing game mechanics with a "primary"? Not that there's much to discuss of course, the gameplay thread is dead for a reason.

>> No.19512280

>>19512260

Gensokyo is confirmed real. Zun is apostle of the Dragon God. Commit seppuku and join them NOW.

>> No.19512288
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19512288

>>19512265

>> No.19512291

>>19512011
I mentioned Wagner with CdT for the Arthurian legend, but you’re right, he was a source of inspiration for the myth of Germany too.

>> No.19512295

This thread is complete cancer just like the fanbase.

>> No.19512301

>>19512288
This is my computer lock screen

>> No.19512359 [DELETED] 
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19512359

>>19512291

Based ZUN making Nihon the land of the kamis again.

>> No.19512520

>>19505615
>not wanting to be a girl

>> No.19512587
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19512587

>>19512520

This sick delusion left me when I realized that I want to be a 2D girl in a 2D world and that being azunyan in real life isn't possible.

>> No.19512651

>>19512587
Wouldn't want it permanently, but being able to become a 3D girl at will would be pretty cool.

>> No.19512675
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19512675

>>19512651

You'd be a turbo lesbian slut it would not be great.

>> No.19512681

>>19512675
Sounds pretty great to me.

>> No.19512722

ITT: butthurt secondaries trying to cope

>> No.19512770

>>19512681

I know how people who never had any kind of intimate relationship without even counting physicial ones seems to idealize sex and stuff but as someone who accidentally got into more fucked up relations than a man should live in an entire life I can tell you that no it's not great to be a slut or even getting intimate with one (or two or three). If you could somehow turn into a girl you should become the perfect waifu and find a cute onee-chan who'll love you and you'll want to be as perfect as possible for her and not some kind of former easy girl.

>> No.19512774

>>19512681
Same.

>> No.19512794

>>19512770
That's assuming I want to live the rest of my life as female, which isn't the case.

>> No.19512838

>>19512794

I'm sure that being a lonely skinnyfat weeb 99% of the time but a cute girl fucked like dirt cheap meat on the weekend will not pay its toll on your sanity and way of living.

>> No.19512878

>>19512838
idk, you say it like it's a bad thing somehow.

>> No.19512893

>>19512878

I can only blame my own constant shitpost about kissing idols with cummy breath and being a submissive bun-bun for abusive moonee-chans for this level of degeneracy among /jp/sies. I assume all responsabilities and criticism aimed at my criminal person.

>> No.19512925

>>19512893
Don't worry anon, in the unlikely case I ever get this opportunity, I am going to enjoy myself responsively, dividing my time between being used as a sex toy and other, more productive pursuits.

>> No.19512926

>>19506426
>It'd probably cause overpopulation in Gensokyo,
No way man, there are probably dozens of starving villages in Gensokyo and rabbit meat is tasty as fuck.

>> No.19512977

>>19512191
How many arcade 1CCs do you have? If you play arcade games at a high level then it's acceptable to be a Touhou secondary.

>> No.19512981

>>19512926

There is only one village anon. But everyone would get a free slave-meat-wife bunbun. Great.

>> No.19512993

>>19512977

By that logic it's okay to be a girless virgin until 35 if you suck enough dicks at the gloryhole.

>> No.19513001

>>19512977
>If you play arcade games
Why would I?

>> No.19513078

>>19507082
>The Western fanbase of Touhou (and by this I almost exclusively mean America but Europe does enter into it too, Spain and Mexico being particularly horrible;

I live in Spain and I think I've seen maybe two Touhou cosplays in my whole life. Maybe I just live in a city where it's not popular but I think people here don't know about it at all.

>> No.19513267 [SPOILER] 
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19513267

>>19507082
>Spain and Mexico being particularly horrible
You're not wrong

>> No.19513375

>>19513267

I'd still fuck the remilia and the flan because they are surely traps and I'd cuddlefuck with the Yukari.

That nitori is cute enough for a one night stand and that sakuya looks like she'd give good blowjobs in public toilets and drink my piss too as a finisher.

>> No.19514861

A combination of grass is greener and disconnection from reality.

>> No.19515174

>>19513267
Cirno, Aya, Flandre and Nitori are passable, but that Yukari is a real nice effort.

>> No.19515180

>>19513375
>>19515174
You guys have really low standards

>> No.19515211

>>19515180
You have unrealistically high standards.

>> No.19515305

>>19513267
Someone remembered Rikako so it elevates the picture to a 10/10 regardless of the uglyness of its participants

>> No.19515337

>>19515211
There's better fishes on this part of the sea

>> No.19515343

>>19513267
Spics genetically don't have necks

>> No.19515448

>>19515337

Don't be fooled anon. Women no matter where they come from are vile and foul soulless beings.

>> No.19516097

>>19515448
That's not entirely true, at least I got the fortune to meet nice girls.

>> No.19516157

More importantly, why did Touhou get hit so hard by this recent wave of "ironic weeaboos"? Is it because the series is in the line where it's both too obscure for complete newbies to know and well-known enough toot be forgotten that makes them feel right at home pretending to be retards while talking about it? Is there any way to protect Touhou other than waiting until they all grow up?

>> No.19516260

>>19505615
>Why is the touhou fanbase at least in the west attracting all the weirdoes

Confirmed for never going to japan during reitaisai or talking with 2hu fans in japan.

>> No.19517298

>>19516157
>protect Touhou
unironic weaboos are annoying but harmless, they have no power

>> No.19517872
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19517872

>>19507082
tl;dr

>> No.19517943

>>19517872
tl;dr it's a giant fucking idiot who thinks "durr the west is bad >:( japan is sugoii"

>> No.19518209

>>19517943
It's objectively true when it comes to fandom though.

>> No.19518212

Random question since this is the kind of thread for it. Are there any 2hus based off pigs/swines? If not, which characters are noted for eating a lot/being fatties?

>> No.19518214

>>19518212
>pigs/swines
>fatties
Patchouli.

>> No.19518298

>>19518209
/jp/ is only second to /m/ in board retardation

>> No.19518454

The long story made short of why the Western Touhou community is shit is that in the Japanese community, people encourage each other to get better and the reward of status is given to all creators, even if you're a newcomer or someone who's not very skilled; you are valued for the act of creation and simultaneously encouraged to get better. This creates a virtuous circle by which creators improve and then encourage other creators. No such thing exists in the West.

In the West, on the other hand, since there's no "community of creators" and the whole thing is overshadowed by Japan anyway, the only way to get status is either by participating in a big circlejerk or by shitting on other fans. Which is why there's really two kinds of Western communities. One is your typical friendly "secondary" circlejerk where everyone is friends and the artists are treated as miniature gods, who therefore never improve, the kind that most people make fun of.

The other kind of community is more like /jp/, made entirely of elitist faggots who are too good for circlejerking and therefore get all of their status by shitting on other fans. Shitting on secondaries, shitting on people who aren't good enough at the games, shitting on doujinshi, shitting on EoSD fans, shitting on Japanese fans with shit taste, shitting on vocals, shitting on other communities, shitting on fanwork they don't like, the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And of course, the community itself generally produces nothing except more elitist faggots.

You're here forever.

>> No.19518475 [DELETED] 

>19518454
Idiotic post

>> No.19518500

>>19518475
Case in point.

>> No.19518504 [DELETED] 

>19518500
Not worth a (You)
/jp/ is a fucking retarded board who don't actually know anything about Japan

>> No.19518508

>>19518504
>who don't
doesn't

>> No.19518509 [DELETED] 

19518508
not based

>> No.19518550

>>19511789
This is true
But at times I think it even goes beyond that. I see ZUN more as a shaman or spirit medium than a storyteller. Unlike a Tolkien or a Wagner or Lovecraft, ZUN isn't dealing with fantastic other worlds or a recollection of dead mythology. ZUN's work is made in parallel to the current world and is both fluid and stable at the same time,much like myth in the ancient world. For example, the god Pan was claimed to have died not in some shrouded mythological time divorced from the present, but during the reign of Tiberius by contemporaries. The concept of a magical world coexisting with our world was the nature of most mythologies before they were bulldozed away by various things and relegated to just stories( the Sidhe, the Alfar, etc). Of course it has survived better in Japan than elsewhere. It was not a place you could necessarily visit, but it was always exerting its influence on reality in various ways and vice-versa. Through ZUN's dedication and the psychic gestalt of the fans, I really believe Touhou is starting to manifest a true mythology for the modern era in this very Shinto-like way, where the characters are being born as gods of our world through devotion. If you think of Letty during the first snow of the year, or Suwako during a downpour the magic is starting to work.

>> No.19518659

>>19507082
>The West thrives in laziness.

Case in point, could you imagine the West EVER putting out anything with the same production values as this in an amateur work? Could be for anything and even some larger fanbases like Star Wars/Harry Potter their fanworks have been at best mediocre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VndKgOALOXQ

You can argue all you like until you're blue in the face its because anyone with that talent would be employed full time. But I highly doubt everyone in the doujin industry doesn't hold a hold a day job, this kind of stuff is a true passion project.

>> No.19518669

>Daring to go against the circlejerk
>Posts deleted
Hahahaha /jp/ is fucking horrendous

>> No.19518910

I'd rather enter a thousand more 'I want to mating press x!' threads than read through this kuso thread again.

>> No.19518961 [SPOILER] 
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19518961

>>19506001
>about rabbots
How many licks does it take to reach the center of a-a-a- a mistake lollipop!? LETS FIND OUT!*

>> No.19519105

fuck off idolfags

>> No.19521230

>>19519105
Yeah?

>> No.19526862

>>19512722
There's nothing special about the Touhou games. People could just as well build an artificial circle-jerk around a roguelike or flight simulator or military strategy game, and then laugh at you for not playing them. In fact the things that really make Touhou special are things other than the games themselves.

>> No.19528938
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19528938

>>19507082
>>19507115
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I haven't closely followed the Touhou fanbase since 2013 (I only really still collect the doujin music from circles I already know and fanart) and I guess things really haven't changed since then.

>> No.19529208

>>19526862
I disagree. There's almost no game experience I've had that compares to some of the final stages in Touhou. The synthesis of challenge, music, and visuals is hard to match.

>> No.19533418

>>19525856
Unbased

>> No.19533431

>>19529208
That's just your opinion. Anyone could say the same about their favorite series.

>> No.19536544

>>19507082
>>19507115
All too true.
Art isn't sought after anymore. You do everything to make money or to be like or better than someone else.
Expression means nothing now.

I just don't know anymore.

>> No.19537942

boop

>> No.19538700

>>19518659
wow this is really impressive

>> No.19539321

>>19536507
Generals are nothing more than threads that get remade often due to a high amount of interest from a group of people. Are you really saying that 4chan should forcibly stop threads about certain subjects from being made just because recent threads about them got bumped off recently? If you really want to go that route, then how are you going to differentiate such threads from threads about extremely hot topics that reach bump limit in a short amount of time, needing more threads to be made because they haven't run out of content after just 300 posts+overtime?
If you really want to argue about how "generals" are anti-4chan, then is this extremely limited scenario you want to force onto everyone your idea of what's the real 4chan?

(By the way, I have no interest in the hundred idol threads, but given how fucking many of them there are nowadays I'd be thankful if they either condensed themselves further or got split off into a /3djp/).

>> No.19539417

>>19538998
I'll choose to believe that you're just pretending to be retarded instead of being a genuine enormous newfag.

>> No.19539424

>>19539099
>the same shit over and over again
It's really sad how this is the truth, not just for comics, but most industries. Comics in particular are held back by superheroes, because there is no risk, the superheroes will always win in the end, or they won't and everything will be reset. Same with hollywood, there's no tension because you know the good guys will always win, because american audiences would feel cucked if the good guys lost. We can't even have a good movie about villian protagonists, look at suicide squad, and anti-heroes are just edgy heroes. It's in our video games, too. We don't take risks like they do over in the ja-pans, and when we try to, it just turns into low-effort shock value. Tell me something, the japanese magaka, doujin-makers, and pixiv-type artists draw and study anime from the time they are children, yes? This is how they have so many talented and creative young artists, yes (aside from the previously mentioned supportiveness and such)? So, assuming someone is around the age of 20, is learning the basics of art, and wishes to get to the level and do the same kind of work that those artists do, is it possible to get to their level, at that point, or is it too late? sorry for the change in topic

>> No.19539434

>>19539417
You do realize that, in the present day, he's right? What is this meme about /jp/ currently standing for japan/general, when it says it stands for otaku culture, right in plain sight?

>> No.19540300 [SPOILER] 
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19540300

>>19538726

I know the bunbun is cute, soft and puffy in all the good place but please don't leave bite marks on her good feeling parts. That bunbun is not for eating.

>> No.19541750

>>19540300
Can I leave bite marks on her neck/nape/shoulders? What about some light bruises from manhandling her too roughly?

>> No.19542868
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19542868

>>19505615
The problem with the western Touhou fanbase is that it mostly consists of 3 types of people. 1: Gamers that play bullet hell games. 2: Self-proclaimed meme lords. And 3: Privileged yet dissatisfied middle class shut in's. Everybody else just isn't that interested in Touhou. People that like fantasy stories would rather watch/read something that doesn't have a cast consisting mostly out of little girls. People that like kawai moe shit would rather watch a more mundane slice of life anime. Most gamers would rather play something less demanding. Music fans would rather listen to actual music. And people that want porn would just go to pornhub.

That basically just leaves the 3 types of people I mentioned. Now admittingly, people that play bullet hell games are usually decent, if a BIT crazy. But the other two types are both incredibly toxic, and usually filled with unstable lonely weirdoes. They also tend to attract others of their kind, and have a habit of driving away other types of people. Which only serves to further decrease the chances of decent people getting into Touhou in the west.

>> No.19543100

>>19542868
You're definitely generalizing, and the only people in the 2hu community who are toxic are individuals, the different types of fans as a whole aren't problematic, aside from individuals who are problematic. People like grimsoyko-fag, or the moral-authoritarians, or the actual elitists. The vast majority of the fandom is fine. There a lot of weirdos who are into 2hu, but honestly the only people who wouldn't take part in the community because of that are elitists, so if anything, the community is better for it, because of that elitist-barrier. 2hu doesn't really have any kind of pleb-barrier, either. Honestly, it sounds like you want elitists (decent) people to come en-masse into the fandom, and that you want the current population of NEETs, perverts, and awkward/weird/shut-ins to disappear or leave. That's what it sounds like, at least. there's no barrier other than the elitist-barrier for normalfags.

>> No.19543190

>>19542868
Why are you complaining about elitism on /jp/? Do you know where you are? The most abhorrent part of the "fan"base come from Reddit, Facebook, and Discord. These are the people who don't give a fuck about the games and post the same epic memes daily. These are the people who argue on Twitter about retarded things and get extremely offended when you correct them on canon.

>> No.19543264

>>19543100
What i want is for the fandom to not consist mostly out of toxic NEETs, perverts, Paedophiles and akward/weird/shut-ins. Some are okay. But when those types of people make up most of the fandom, then you do have a problem.

>>19543155
I'm not repelled by them. I mean, I am a Bullet hell player. I just think they are the reason why Touhou tends to attract weirdos and creeps so easily.

>>19543190
All of the shit you mentions happens on /jp/ as well. Don't be delusional.

>> No.19543407

>>19543297
People make shitty memes on this board as well. Yes, you might argue that Touhou Hell is "Worse". But it still happens here.

>> No.19543445

>>19543264
>to consist of NEETs, perverts, pedophiles, awkward shut-ins
Weren't you just complaining about elitism in the community? Why are those types of people a problem? Honestly, /jp/ and 2hu are the warmest and nicest communities that i've taken part in that aren't a 15 year old game with 40 active players, and the people who you identify as "decent" tend to be the definition of the "redditor" meme. There's nothing wrong with normalfags joining, and nothing stopping them, aside from elitist normalfags who don't like the mentioned types. If you don't like those types or want them around you, why are you on 4chan, or more specifically, the anime/otaku/2d side of 4chan?

>> No.19543448

>>19543190
>Why are you complaining about elitism on /jp/?
"Elitism" as practiced by /jp/ is a retarded "more-primary-than-thou" endeavor that exists for the sole purpose of making /jp/sies feel self-assured about how much better they are than other people.

It doesn't create anything, it doesn't translate anything, it doesn't host anything, it doesn't get high scores and in general does nothing except leech off other communities and feel self-important about itself.

>> No.19543876
File: 812 KB, 1103x1020, 1523908288064.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19543876

>>19543659
Add the profit motive to any human relationship, and you alter how all parties to the relationship benefit from it.

Most participants within a non-profit/volunteer community are probably going to benefit from their work through emotional rewards. They feel proud to have contributed to a group effort, they feel needed, they feel more secure as a member of a community or subculture with its own identity, rituals, and so on. Within this kind of relationship, camaraderie and cooperation are incentivized: there are no drawbacks for competitive behaviour, sharing with others contributes to the group's collective success, and antisocial or disruptive activity harms group efforts and may lead to expulsion. Through such an environment, artists and other creators can more easily learn from one another through constructive criticism, education and mutual assistance given freely. Creators can also easily leave and create alternative communities if in-group drama threatens a project.

When the content created is commodified (i.e. becomes something to buy and sell) the main benefit from creation becomes the profits from selling the content. Emotional rewards may still exist, but will compete or be supplanted by profit-seeking as a motivator for participation in the community, depending on the needs and wants of the creator(s). Group efforts will suffer unless profits are distributed in a way that optimally satisfies most members, creators now have incentives to withhold assistance from each other or go solo. This accelerated the atomization that >>19539037 describes. Help given to newbies is now time that could be spent promoting a patreon, fulfilling requests or polishing a portfolio. Finally, and I think most importantly, creators turn themselves into competitors, a relationship that is more likely to be or turn hostile as some creators seek ways to violate the norms and customs of a group for material gain.

I could be wrong: I might be overstating the importance of profit-seeking in western fandoms or Japanese communities may be just as competitive as westerners. But I am providing a theory that I have yet to see posited in this thread, and my theory is based on roughly fifteen years of observing and participating in such communities.

>> No.19543902

>>19543659
>From what I've observed western creators are much more eager to monetize anything they create.
I might be a bit biased here, considering I am the guy who made that one post. But I don't view that as a problem. When I, or any artist really, spend time working on something. Then why should I NOT try and sell it? If the work is good enough that people are willing to buy it, then i might be able to use it to support myself. Which should result in more work being produced quicker.

>> No.19544196
File: 424 KB, 883x902, 1514682252096.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19544196

>>19543902
Mind you I certainly don't begrudge creators for trying to monetize. They're not actively seeking to atomize themselves or hinder the development of newcomers within their respective fandoms. They're subconsciously following the incentives and deterrents that exist in any relatively free market economy. Japan has a combination of a strong welfare state and a culture that doesn't frown on young adults living with their parents. One could argue that this gives Japanese creators the opportunity to pass up profit-seeking for "pure" personal and community development.

I'm just pointing it out because I noticed that western fans and even /jp/sies just take these economic relationships for granted and view ongoing cultural changes within a vacuum.

>> No.19544457

>>19544196
>>19543876
I think in the West the fact that you CAN make a living as an indie dev or a freelance artist by monetizing an under-served audience makes people try for it from the very beginning, whereas in Japan because it's not really a viable career choice people don't even consider it. People who try to make a living off creation don't try to monetize their hobby on an independent basis, they try to use existing Comiket success to pitch a serialized work and success there depends much more on having the skills to make the pitch than on assembling an online fanbase.

Furthermore, in Japan I think the whole fandom is "in it together." In the West where there are maybe five decent prolific Touhou artists total, then sure, increasing that number to six may adversely impact your bottom line since everybody only wants to subscribe to like one (1) Patreon or something. But in Japan you're competing with like ten thousand other people to the point where you aren't really competing with any individual circle in any meaningful sense. If your book is a 5 and the booth next to yours has a 7 it doesn't mean people won't buy your book since anyone on a tight budget is only buying 9s and 10s, and anyone who went out of their way to look at the 7 is likely to have bought every book in the aisle dedicated to his favorite pairing/series/character/etc (including yours). And if that 7 makes the pairing/series/character/etc more popular that's good for the whole aisle.

>> No.19544544
File: 12 KB, 617x157, zun male characters.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19544544

>>19505615
1. The fanbase is participatory and the world is open-ended (no plot finale, a broad time frame, etc.). You can follow a pattern to create an OC and original events with her.
2. There is a ton of content in different media and endless discussion. You can immerse yourself in the fandom.

These two traits are found in a lot of obsessive fandoms that have the most prominent insane fans in the West, like Sonic, horses, Harry Potter, Homestuck... You can probably think of more. As for "I want to be a girl" weebs, there are things that must attract them specifically.

3. The visual aesthetics are particularly cute.
4. The characters generally do not engage in masculine activities. Although there is a lot of conflict and combat, it is elegant (pic related). If you want to be little girl, you probably wouldn't self-insert in a franchise with more visceral fights even if it were very girl-centric.
5. No males.
6. Plenty of girl-on-girl non-explicit lewds as a result. Unlike outright porn, non-explicit lewds can serve as a sort of background noise for the whole fandom, keeping the fans constantly stimulated with their cuteness and lewdness.

I think the really interesting question is whether over time traits 3-6 create weebs who want to be a little girl out of regular weebs.
>[why] not another obscure japanese franchise ?
This is a misleading question, because in Japan Touhou is the opposite of obscure. For perspective, Japanese Akinator guesses Reimu in 10 questions.

>> No.19544771

>>19544219
>while in the west it's dominantly cal-arts shit with hardly accurate anatomy.
Things weren't any better before cal-arts. Invader Zim/JTHM used to be massively influential on amateur artists back in the web 1.0 days. Are stick bodies made out of bent rebar any better than cal-arts blobs?

>> No.19544848

>>19544771
No, but that's exactly my point, they weren't even close to being anatomically correct and people who grew up around that are bound to emulate that style, unless they get into anime, since it's all they know. And at least not every single show looked like Invader Zim back then, whereas now it's all the same noodle-arm cartoons everywhere, but that's beside the point.

>> No.19544931

>>19544848
>whereas now it's all the same noodle-arm cartoons
Most early gaming web comics and Newgrounds flash cartoons straight up stole their writing, style of humour and (to an extent) artistic direction from Zim. You couldn't escape it.

It was what was popular and FORBIDDEN SPORK OF DOOM writing was about as dominant in 2002 as pastel diversity blobs were in 2015.

And if you're under the delusion that Japanese artists are any better go search for fan art of your favourite character on pixiv for thirty pages. What filters over to here is the best 20% tops of what Japanese fan artists make.

>>19544747
>pandering
To whom, the vast majority of the homestuck fan base?

>> No.19544966

>>19544931
Just because the top 20% filters over doesn't mean the other 80% isn't usually way better than western shit or occasionally is just a western piece of shit uploaded on there

>> No.19544994

>>19544966
It really isn't though. Go look

>> No.19545018

>>19544994
I've seen plenty, still better than western shit

>> No.19545067

>>19544931
I'm talking about shows on TV being way more varied in terms of artstyle, not web comics and animations made by fans. What I'm saying is that I could name a bunch of shows on TV today with the same noodle-arm designs, compared to back then where cartoons were just as anatomically incorrect and generally "cartoony" but at least had different artstyles. I said it was beside the point, since it's not really relevant to what I'm talking about. They're both bad when it comes to how it inspires young artists, at least when compared to anime, since they take it as a reference and mimic the styles they see on TV, whether it's Invader Zim or noodle-arms. The problem with this is that a Japanese artist and a Western artist can both be shitty when starting out, I've seen shitty art on pixiv too and I'm not arguing that everyone who's Japanese has a natural talent for art because they watch anime, but the ones who do decide to pursue drawing will eventually become better than western fans who do the same thing. Japanese artists will improve and eventually be able to draw like the anime they watch, since they use it as a reference, they want to reach that level of skill. Westerners aim for cartoony styles with bad anatomy, which makes that their end goal regardless of how good at drawing they get. A good Western artist is better than a bad Japanese artist, sure, but that's not a very fair comparison.

>> No.19545085

>>19506546
>first nordic mythology touhou
I can't find it now, but wasn't there a Touhou-inspired danmaku project based on Western mythology? I don't mean Seihou; it was Western-developed and fantasy, not science fiction.

>> No.19545137

>>19545067
And what's your point? You're repeating the same argument over and over.

>> No.19545209

>>19545156
>That is my point.
"I think that x is better than y because z" isn't something to waste 500+ words on, anon.
>What's yours
>I'm just pointing it out because I noticed that western fans and even /jp/sies just take these economic relationships for granted and view ongoing cultural changes within a vacuum.

>> No.19545268

>>19505816
Don't worry, many of them seem to think they're all canon.

>> No.19545383
File: 159 KB, 500x500, 1521528855400.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19545383

>>19545345
>>>/trash/
An elitist and a fucking hypocrite, no u, pls go back.

>> No.19545674

>>19545326
>If you agree with "I think that x is better than y because z" then I'm not really sure what else there is to say.
I don't, I was just trying to bait people here into talking about something other than ranting about cal-arts for the hundredth time. I guess that was too much for the neo-/jp/ brain trust

>> No.19548002

>>19547828
Not just Tolkien, but Lovecraft fans as well. But I don't think that's just because of the time period when the works were written, but also that the authors both WANTED to create their own mythology. Remember, Tolkien literally wrote his own version of the Bible.

>> No.19548279

>>19526862
Imagine an alternative universe where Touhou is a hardcore fight simulator series and /jp/ has flight stick threads. Imagine one where it is a grand strategy wargame featuring Generalissimo Hakurei.

>> No.19548537

>>19544931
Yeah.
The majority of the Touhou fanbase probably wants endless EoSD, but ZUN does his own thing despite that.

>> No.19549331

>>19507115
>This goes for all, music, doujin manga, shit even MMD and MADs
>music
Music in general the west wins. Japan and especially Korea just copy the west. The late 80s/early 90s showcases this so much with how drastically music changed there. Rap is even now poking its head out, but I hope japan tell those asianniggers to fuck off. Korea is a lost cause, completely copied the west, and rap is popular there.

>> No.19549475

>>19543659
>Either Japanese artists are really good at hiding their own monetization
Read the discussion of Comiket upthread. You don't need to beg for donations if you can sell your work offline on a regular basis.

>> No.19551602
File: 908 KB, 1034x670, 1529863056486.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19551602

>>19551169
>I found a list of the top sellers; these really aren't franchises you want to be competing with, and trying to score big on merch is a far less stable investment than simply cutting costs.
Most of these intellectual properties are marketed towards a general audience or children. Calarts cartoons (and shonen anime, for that matter) can survive by marketing themselves towards specific demographics that the big IPs can't or won't serve.
>The video game and smartphone market have eaten away at the industry
You have a point, but they also present opportunities for cartoons and anime in mobile markets:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.turner.pocketmorties&hl=en
https://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Time-King-steal-garbage-Nintendo/dp/B0081X5TV8
[insert dozens of links to shitty mobage here]
I doubt these games are going gangbusters on sales, but they probably generate revenue streams to make up for lost revenue via traditional sources.
>But there IS viable long-term commercial content production. It's just gatekept by actual industry processes.
I don't disagree, but I have to wonder at how big or small the acceptance rate is.

In the end I'm not too worried: both the eastern and western fandoms are protected from the worst of the commercialization of our communities and the content they produce by the sheer size and amount of already-existing dojinworks floating around out there. With the number of touhou circles attending comiket continuing to be in the thousands, the content generated will stay at critical mass and provide western fans with low or no-cost content for years to come.

>> No.19552138

>>19551380
Reminds me of a pic about how a hobby is created and how goes to shit due to normalfags. Not sure if I saved it somewhere.

>> No.19554162

>>19551663
The fanatics want to spread their memes (in the original sense of the word), the mops seek out low-effort entertainment and the sociopaths want social status, sex and attention. Money acts as a proxy for all of these ancient desires. There is no reason to think the dynamic between the three groups would fundamentally change in a postscarcity utopia if the DNA t hat built human brains remained intact. The only thing it would enable, in the article's terms, is scenes too small and weird to ever become a subculture.
>Great Man Theory is shit
That's going too abstract. Do you actually think that the presence of a few exceptional artists can't make or break the artistic niche they work in?

>> No.19554351

Why do you all care so much about grafix and not about story and characterization? That's the problem with western anime fans. If everything looked like Pokemon and Shin-chan, none of you fags would even like it. They all care about this nebulous idea of anime style, and shun anything outside it Western or Japanese. If anime copied manga style more over VN and LN style or its own cheap ass easy to animate styles, there probably wouldn't even be a Western fandom.

How the hell can you even like Touhou and then shit on western cartoon style? How can you like endless cute girls with magic powers that fight shit and then hate endless superheroes with super powers that fight shit?

>> No.19554553

>>19554359
Yeah, why are you so obsessed with girls anyway? Why does the presence of any male in Japanese media threaten you or make you feel gay? What happened to liking cool (as in what nerds and chuuni consider cool) guys?

>> No.19554560 [DELETED] 

>>19554359
>>19554553
and also why does it come back to how cute the girls are? That's just caring about art over substance again.

>> No.19554821

>>19554792
I was born in the wrong dream.

>> No.19554851
File: 1.37 MB, 774x1032, yaldabaoth_samael_by_sammcotton-d6q8x78.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19554851

>>19554821
It means you deserve it.

>> No.19554879

>>19554851
tiamat is better

>> No.19554888

>>19554879
I really can't make logical connections between our posts. What did you meant by this?

>> No.19554949

>>19554888
use your eyes

>> No.19555250

>>19555058
I don't want to fuck live and die with male superheroes so no.

>> No.19555978

>>19555955
Then you haven't searched hard enough.

>> No.19556012

>>19554351
I don't like the attitudes of Western 'superheroes', and I don't like the mentality of their fanbase either.

>> No.19556066

>>19554351
>How can you like endless cute girls with magic powers that fight shit and then hate endless superheroes with super powers that fight shit?
Touhou promotes alcoholism and taking is easy. Superheroes are gritty dudes doing the same gritty things for like 50 years.

>> No.19556163

>>19554351
>If anime copied manga style more over VN and LN style or its own cheap ass easy to animate styles, there probably wouldn't even be a Western fandom.
A strange thing to assert because manga generally has "better grafix" than anime.

>> No.19556225

>>19554351
There are deeper differences between Touhou and Japanese media features superpowers in general and Western (really, Anglo-American) superhero stories. It isn't just superheroes vs. cute girls. The settings, the story themes, the character arcs, etc. all differ, sometimes in ways that are hard to articulate but still easy to notice if you read both.

>> No.19556748

>>19505615
In opinion on the western fandom. I feel like we have a cultural disconnect to some level, as with many other japanese franchises.

Touhou in example takes place in feudal-ish environment dominated by fantastic creatures. Yet we don't the western fandom latching onto the concept, because the fantastic creatures of the east are difficult to latch onto. It is somewhat easy to misconstrue the concept of Gensokyo itself. It is essentially a livestock pen so youkai can have some substance to survive on, including devouring humans literally. Yet no one in the western fandom seems to get it, they empathize with the wonder in easter wonderland.

But if you dig just beneath the surface it's far from wonderland. It's a beautiful deathtrap with wonderful characters. Provided by the inspiring, ZUN.
Also to answer the other question, the character designs are wonderful, not too fantastic to cause a disconnect, but with a nice undertone of fantasy. So they would attracted a crowd seeking to elevate themselves from miserable existences.

>> No.19557913

>>19554351

And yet everytime a nip takes inspiration from typical american contexts, ideas or culture it ends up being the best thing this initial idea have seen. The lattest example of super-heroes done right is my hero academia, it puts anything super hero related in the shitter like it wasn't even a thing before. The absolute dire state of comics as a medium might have helped too though. The best fantastical new york we've seen in 10 years is from blood blockade battlefront to the extent that even the shit as fuck badly paced anime was still great just for the setting.

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