Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1958

[Anonymous No.]

This is a Japanese language learning thread designed by and for those interested in traditional otaku media such as anime, manga, light novels, and Japanese video games.
If you have no interest in otaku media or want to request a translation, this is not the thread for you.

Read the guide before asking stupid questions.
http://djtguide.neocities.org/
Last thread: >>19338182

How can you say you love /djt/ when you can't even read its shitposting?!

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347724
You should break the streak, then it won't be as hard to do it the second time once you realize anki is a waste of your time

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347980
>How can you say you love /djt/ when you can't even read its shitposting?!
cause reports do nothing and filters don't catch everything

[Anonymous No.]

Why am I learning from a deck made from frequent words in newspapers when I could make a VN freq deck?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348023
Because you're lazy and won't amount to anything in life

[Anonymous No.]

because they write newspapers for mass comprehensibility using common words

[Anonymous No.]

ミナサン　コンニチハ
ワタワ　ハ　ジョーン・スミス　デス
アニメ　ガ 　ダイスキ　デス
ヨロシク　オネガイ 　シマス

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Reading eroge is the best method to gain fluency. You trick your brain into thinking that you achieve maximal reproductive results by simply reading. The brain adapts and accelerates your input efficiency to increase your nihongo skills. Repeat until fluent.

[Anonymous No.]

From Kenkyuusha:
>彼女は予選2 位の成績で決勝に望んだ.
>Second in the preliminaries, she went on to the finals.
Didn't the 望んだ mean she just desired to go to the finals, not necessarily that she did go?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347980
I love Ciel!

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348101
Probably should be 臨む. I would look it up but I am mobile right now

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348172
>>19348101
Apparently, that is it.
Them japanese mixing up their kanjis

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348216
It's still the same word.

[Anonymous No.]

words aren't words

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348231
No
And 早い is different from 速い
And 匂い is a neutral noun while 臭い has a bad connotation

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348261
You literally don't know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>the best selling books/products on white rabbit is all beginner shit
people really do quit often, huh?

[Anonymous No.]

it can't be helped using kanji as grammatical crutches instead of clarifiers it's inevitable when you're trying to learn the actual language and its written modality at the same time at a fast pace. you just need to keep it in mind to correct such mindset later.

[Anonymous No.]

見る
視る
看る
診る
察る
覧る
監る
観る

If you can't use all of these properly you literally don't know Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

See something
See something (stare)
See something (watch over)
See something (diagnosis)
See something (?)
See something (?)
See something (?)
See something (look over, determine the state of something)

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348338
I hate to say it but RTK teaches you the meaning of most of these.

[Anonymous No.]

The other day, I was determining the state of that TV show, 超面白かった

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348366
it teaches you an english word that may or may not be relatively analogous to an instance of that use of the kanji in the wild. For nuances like that you are better off putting "word1 word2 違い" in google and going straight to a jap

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348500
Why are you so retarted, stop being retarted

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348231
Same origin, not same word. You can't use them interchangeably, and authoritative dictionaries split them up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348518
Alright I will work on it

[Anonymous No.]

This is the power of RTK, 恐ろしい

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348582
i knew this word referred to some sort of fear even though i can't read. thank you RTK.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348632
流石ｒｔｋ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348338
see
look
look after
diagnose
investigate
look (polite)
oversee
determine

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348697
The joke here was that they all mean the same thing. Good job on not knowing Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348717
>t. monolingual

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348697
Many are wrong or too vague

[Anonymous No.]

yikes imagine learning a second language language and being so ignorant about linguistics to think any form of written language is the one who rules over its spoken form

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck I just learned that I don't know japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348806
You're welcome.

[Anonymous No.]

Why is Genki so hated?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348874
ask reddit for all the reasons they like genki and you have your answer

[Anonymous No.]

mina genki

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348338
>見る　外の景色を見る
>視る　テレビを視る（見るでもＯＫ）
>観る　サッカーの試合を観る（見るでもＯＫ）

>看る　風邪を引いた妹を看る（世話をする）
>診る　患者を診る（診察する）

>察る>覧る>監る　めったに使われないから、覚える必要ない

[Anonymous No.]

天覧試合

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348035
are you going to learn to read using only newspapers from day one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347430
NHK easy isn't reading.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

if the core10k decks are based on word frequency in news then listening to the news for an hour every day while doing the deck will kickstart listening ability. wow thanks guys can't wait to learn japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349180
the lists were compiled in the 90s

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349207
wouldn't it be easy to update why has no one updated it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349210
it's called anon core 5k

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348874
Because normies. Also because the first two chapters of the first volume have optional romaji next to the hiragana. And as we found out later, even so much as a glance at romaji in the beginning stages of learning will permanently impair your learning of Japanese. I myself used romaji one one evening in December of 2011, just to make sure I was assigning the right syllables to the kana.

I have failed the n5 three times in a row. I literally never recovered.

[Anonymous No.]

that's some high quality reddit humor thanks for gracing us with it

[Anonymous No.]

Thanks, the comedy complements the irrational aversion to specific learning tools that some faggots like to repeat incessantly.

[Anonymous No.]

Genki is actually shit though

[Anonymous No.]

find me one person that learned japanese with genki in less than 4 years (or in any time really).

the DJT cluster of methods brings anyone to fluency in under 3 years

[Anonymous No.]

imagine thinking that genki is an acceptable resource for self-learning

[Anonymous No.]

imagine thinking that genki is an acceptable resource for learning

[Anonymous No.]

imagine thinking that genki is an acceptable resource

[Anonymous No.]

genki is eating

[Anonymous No.]

imagine thinking genki

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349397
you are mistaken, genki is not food, only eat manga

[Anonymous No.]

>genki

[Anonymous No.]

imagine

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349379
>fluency in under 3 years
The only way this is feasible is if you're totally immersed in Japanese and spend the vast majority of your days (think 10+ hours) inputting. Even then, you probably wouldn't be on the same level as a native.

[Anonymous No.]

is it just me or are と adverbs so often redundant? why add an adverb when you are using a verb that seemingly the exact same?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349378
>fluency in under 3 years
The only way this is feasible is if you're totally immersed in Japanese and spend the vast majority of your days (think 10+ hours) inputting. Even then, you probably wouldn't be on the same level as a native.

[Anonymous No.]

@19349420

that's not what fluency means
I can smell your EOP from 5000 miles away

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349431
have you heard of the term "basic fluency"

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349437
Joke's on you, I'm not even a native English speaker.

>>19349443
Yes I have, what of it? Are you implying "basic fluency" is interchangeable with "fluency" and both expressions have the same meaning?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349461
are you implying that "fluent" has a specific as opposed to a broad use?

[Anonymous No.]

what's the difference between
下さいませんか
and
くれませんか
?

[Anonymous No.]

How many DJT threads will it take to get fluent in nihongo

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349500
Hmmm
about 20

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349474
Let's stop this cat-and-mouse game, what exactly did you mean by "fluency"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349500
imagine trying to climb a mountain, but someone keeps shitting on you from above. that's djt. it only slows you down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349517
>it only slows you down.
No idea what you're talking about. DJT has helped me improve my Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

Kind of want to find out what DJT thread was the first one I participated in, I know the date but don't know how to look for it in archives

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349511
i'm not the person who said it in the first place, i just happen to know that the word doesn't necessarily imply anything near native level
it's a shitty word anyway because no one agrees on what it means, and so no one should use it, if we're being honest

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349525
Thanks for the swell idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349500
assuming you start studying today and do it every day, assuming it'll take 2 years to reach (basic?) fluency, and assuming there is a new DJT every 3 days, it'll take about 244 DJT threads to get fluent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349525
I bookmarked my first thread. Someone told me I couldn't learn nihongo. He was probably right but I'm keeping track just in case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349545
going to give him that 2-year delayed (You)

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349545
sorry that was probably me in my mount stupid phase
you can learn japanese

[Anonymous No.]

I'm 12X DJTs into learning Japanese
causes physical pain reading my first posts

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349527
Fair enough, I probably shoulnd't have appended the native part to my initial post. I assumed anon meant near-native level of fluency since "basic fluency" as they call it can easily be achieved in less than 3 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>check my first DJT
>no jamal in sight
>people having proper discussions
>still some funposting on the side
If I had only known.

[Anonymous No.]

i have this theory that if you stop giving jamal attention he fades away

[Anonymous No.]

does anyone really truly believe that jamal is what's wrong with djt these days

[Anonymous No.]

t. jamal

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349589
Wanna know how I can tell you're new?

[Anonymous No.]

boogeyman posting is the real cancer

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349613
Actually, yes.

[Anonymous No.]

There's an MPV script where you press "a" and it writes the subtitle loaded on the screen to a file on your desktop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349500
69

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349622
Your posting style, nostalgia goggles, saying "funposting", and thinking anyone cares.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349632
does it do anything about sentence cards taking 2-3x as long to review with only a placebo effect benefit over actually reading more

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349494
Top is 謙譲語, bottom is just 敬語

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349603
just watch the muppets dance and enjoy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349637
Sentence cards are the only type of cards it makes sense to make. But if you don't find anki then it's not for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349637
Wanna know how I can tell you're new to the site?

[Anonymous No.]

youre all new compared to me

[Anonymous No.]

my goal is to reach basic fluency by the time JCAT starts costing money

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349658
Go ahead, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349653
i don't think you know what anki is for

[Anonymous No.]

STOP SHITPOSTING
STOP IT

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349667
what's the major problem of sentence cards

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349668
>posting reaction images
Nobody does that here you fucking newfag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349700
meanwhile you out yourself even further holy fuck the state of this general

[Anonymous No.]

>quoting the post right above you
the absolute state indeed

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349718
Why shouldn't I? Fuck the "look at how cool I am by not quoting anyone" meme that plagues this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347986
o, I am laffin

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349700
Wow, rude! It seems you don't remember the "good old days" as well as you think you do... But it's alright, 2 to 3 more years of lurking and you'll blend in with us perfectly!
Also, who in the WORLD could you possibly be quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349645
thanks for the answer
so first might be used in business and the second might be used just in polite conversation with (non-work) acquaintances?

[Anonymous No.]

Newfag detection in these threads is on point. I've been called out for being a newfag/dekinai several times in the past couple weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349699
>You're given too much of a contextual hint as to what the word means. Using SRS flashcards correctly only guarantees that you are improving your ability to remember the back of the card based on the front of the card.

>You can certainly get better at recognizing words even if they're in a sentence card, but it's definitely the case that the sentence is a huge hint, and people often complain of remembering the back of the card before they even get to the word at all.

>Any increase in ability to remember the meaning/reading of a word from sentence cards should be considered a bonus, just like when using exposure cards. They can certainly help with individual words but there's no guarantee that they'll improve your ability to recognize that word beyond a certain point or outside of that sentence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349745
t. oldfag

[Anonymous No.]

You don't know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349745
You're not fooling anyone Takashi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349751
>You're given too much of a contextual hint as to what the word means.
good. the point is to understand the sentence and word, not memorize the word for no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

wow i really shouldn't have read my first three DJT threads, my posts were even worse than I remembered

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349770
the point is to look at the kanji and recall the word so that you wont have to do dictionary lookups as often to even figure out how to phonetically read sentences
fuck, even remembering the meaning isn't as important as you fuckers think (for the most common 5-10k words) but you can go for it if you want
you understand actual japanese through reading lots of various japanese not through reviewing the same sentence 30 times

[Anonymous No.]

same. i've come a long way in the past 2 weeks

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349770
read more
using SRS for comprehension is for people who are allergic to reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349790
>>19349798
yea recall all the words in the sentence, because why not.

[Anonymous No.]

How much anime should I drink to achieve true fluency?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349803
9 episodes of anime per day is 3 hours of active listening excluding the OP/ED/recap segments.
it'll take 2 years to understand most of what you're listening to so that's about 6600 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349803
it's just a meme. don't actually drink the anime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349816
Really informative, thanks!

>>19349817
Waht should I do with it then?

[Anonymous No.]

How's your /mia/ routine going, /djt/? I've been doing /mia/ for some measly 3 months and I can already read the entirety of 源氏物語 without looking up a single word. Long live our god-king /matt/ for bestowing us this blessing, now I can finally learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349680
its good software to practice uninstalling software from your computer on

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349803
I recommend 1-2 liters per day. You can go lower than this if you eat enough visual novels (the broth hydrates you) or let's plays (the milk), but 1-2 liters of fresh anime is the normal recommendation. Personally I consume over four liters per day, but that's because it's so hot and humid where I live right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349800
recall all the words in the sentence doesn't change that the sentence makes recalling the words easier which is lessening the only benefit to doing srs vocab in the first fucking place
also it makes your cards slower and untargeted

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349726
actually your issue is just your own autism there mate objectively

[Anonymous No.]

日ユ同祖論

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349825
mia has been awesome. It's my first month and sometimes I can understand words like "genki" or "naruhodo" in anime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349834
>which is lessening the only benefit to doing srs vocab in the first fucking place
what the fuck are you talking about. the point of srs is retaining knowledge. if you can understand the word and even the whole sentence then you're golden.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349860
srs only trains you to recall the back of the card based on the front of the card
e.g. if your cards are sentences on the front and a reading and translation of that sentence on the back, you are only training yourself to recall the entire reading and translation of that sentence, not necessarily any of the individual words
this will, of course, help you with individual words up to a certain point, but any benefit beyond merely recognizing that a certain word has its own identity (such as, for example, the benefit of being able to recognize the word's reading and meaning in other contexts) should be considered an additional, accidental benefit - the SRS flashcard cycle is not responsible for causing those benefits, and they are better acquired through reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349860
the point of srs is memorization via the front of the card to causing you to recall the back of the card
further, if you fuckers read anything about the theory behind srs that goes back decades you would know that one of the golden rules of srs is, to paraphrase, "keep it short and sweet"

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349866
>e.g. if your cards are sentences on the front and a reading and translation of that sentence on the back, you are only training yourself to recall the entire reading and translation of that sentence, not necessarily any of the individual words
the point of the sentence is to understand it completely. if you don't understand it then you're not passing the card.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly that sounds like a personal problem

[Anonymous No.]

who cares what srs does youre not learning nihongo which is the most epic pwn of them all

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349877
yes
you are only training yourself to recall the entire reading and translation of that sentence

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349877
all you're doing is repurposing srs to as scheduled exposure to a limited few thousand individual sentences, which is inferior to exposing yourself to varied japanese, and not what srs is proven to be good for

[Anonymous No.]

All of these damned stupid methods aren't worth shit, all you need in order to learn Japanese is a bitt of /matt/ and /mia/. Anything else will just complicate things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349895
sentence cards are part of mattisawesome try again

[Anonymous No.]

you dont need more gaijins to learn nihongo

you need less gaijins

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349891
all you're doing is repurposing srs to as scheduled exposure to a limited few thousand individual words, which is inferior to exposing yourself to varied japanese, and not what srs is proven to be good for

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349905
it's not exposure it's recognition

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349910
yes, recognizing every component of a sentence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349899
Wrong. The only thing truly needed for the /mia/ method is immersion in Japanese. Sentence cards are optional.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349905
see the difference between what i said and your jocular imitation is that there are studies backing what i said
>>19349915
short and sweet my buddy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349915
that's not what you're training yourself to do when you use sentence cards, you are only training yourself to recall the backside of the card based on the sentence, not recognizing its individual parts
you are not guaranteeing that you will be able to see all of those parts in various other contexts

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349915
>>19349927
i'll add that you will, in fact, gain the ability to recognize some words in other contexts from sentence cards, it just doesn't guarantee that you will be able to do so for all the words

[Anonymous No.]

I have no idea what you faggots are talking about and I'm too lazy to read where the discussion started
I'm guessing RTK or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349927
>you are only training yourself to recall the backside of the card based on the sentence, not recognizing its individual parts
but you literally fail yourself if you don't understand each component? this isn't complicated. you're attacking some method that i'm not talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349951
training understanding each component after being prompted with that specific sentence does not guarantee that you will understand those components in other contexts

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349951
You're talking about the same thing. He's describing what it actually is. The "back of the card" is whatever you want yourself to remember based on the backside of the card, before showing the backside. It doesn't have to be literally printed on the backside.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349949
hurr durr cant learn nihongo so must fill vacuous existence with arguing about flashcards

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349956
same goes for words
>>19349961
>He's describing what it actually is
he's describing a way of doing it that is completely optional.

[Anonymous No.]

I hate sentence cards. I wish this meme would die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349968
no i'm just describing what you're saying

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349968
Normal recall cards guarantee that if you're presented with a single word and you try hard enough you can recall it.

This isn't hard to understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349934
this is important because it acknowledges that you will think that it's effective because you will get some results. after all, it's low quality immersion but it is light immersion. if you recognize that it's not as effective as you expect it to be or not depends on how honest you are with yourself after a few months
>>19349951
he's attacking literally what you're talking about and you're trying to say "no what i'm talking about is much smarter because i don't hit good when i didn't remember"
>>19349968
>same goes for words
recalling a reading and definition when prompted with nothing but the word written in kanji is exactly what is desired from srs so i don't know what you're saying

[Anonymous No.]

no mentioning of ajatt yet
good thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349976
>Normal recall cards guarantee that if you're presented with a single word and you try hard enough you can recall it.
same with sentence cards. you mine sentences that you can understand except one component. but now we're about to go in circles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349992
no such thing as understanding "except one component", the union of those components is also something you do not yet understand

[Anonymous No.]

>putting anything on the back is a mistake
>ever hitting anything but good is a mistake
seriously, the whole point of flash cards is to remind you from time to time. if you lived in japan the same thing would happen when you go to the store or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349992
also if you're still mining iteratively difficult sentences there's a 100% chance that you don't fully understand any single component of the sentence

[Anonymous No.]

Why the fuck would you make sentence cards? Open any book and theres an infinite amount of them right there waiting for you to go through.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349993
>the union of those components is also something you do not yet understand
oh this explains why retards like you hate sentence cards and bother arguing about it. you don't actually know what you're talking about ie. what the process is like.

[Anonymous No.]

Can't they at least remove all kanji used in names? Seems pretty doable to me if you aren't so autistic about your own family name.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350003
that's cool and all but if you disagree with that then you haven't been learning japanese for long enough or to high enough level to argue about learning methods

[Anonymous No.]

Why the fuck would you make word cards? Open any book and theres an infinite amount of them right there waiting for you to go through.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350012
this isn't true, you have to look them up to tell what they mean and often how they're read

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350005
How about we remove you from existence?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350012
You joke but this is actually the best way to learn Japanese.

Also any argument against vocab cards is also an argument against sentence cards. The converse is not true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350005
no. it took me forever to perfect my name 大陰 (ジョージ) and I'm not changing it.

[Anonymous No.]

but seriously though
is manga reading or is it not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349999
did you just say that srs is a substitute for immersion
>>19350003
define i+1 i want to hear you try
>>19350031
cold hard facts right here boys, read em and weep

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349993
>>19350003
i want to quote this one last time and just say that i literally laughed out loud. i can't believe people passionately argue with me about this, and then 30 minutes later they reveal they don't actually understand the process of mining sentences. it's incredible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350005
t. the chosen one

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350039
okay have fun learning about how many idiomatic compounds and collocations there are then

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350039
Sentence mining is a meme.

You're a beginner.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350038
>did you just say that srs is a substitute for immersion
no. its a supplement.

[Anonymous No.]

what's wrong with RTK? why do you hate efficiency?

[Anonymous No.]

jmdict literally does not even contain 80%+ of the idiomatic compounds I've recently been in the process of learning

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ7rPyqIqrk

¯¯̿̿¯̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ '̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿̿

¯¯̿̿¯̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ '̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿̿

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350049
but you said it's the same thing as living in japan
listen dude i just want to make you feel a little bit better: 9 months ago i argued the same thing from your shoes and i got owned and i was mad and felt like i won. today i'm a better man and i have discovered for myself that you're wrong through my own wasted effort, someday you may find the same or you may be like matt and lie to yourself that your flashcard addiction wasn't a complete waste of time even after you delete your deck and admit that it got out of hand

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone here ever read stuff like 三国志 or 西遊記? I've been reading 偕成社's kid's versions of them but I need something to bridge up to the full translations' difficulty (they look scary when I take a peek in them). I'm about to start on stuff like オーバーロード and the JP translation of LOTR and Silmarillion, but I'm not entirely sure if they can work as a bridge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350064
good post

[Anonymous No.]

Sentence cards aren't eating.

[Anonymous No.]

here's an example of "the union of those components"

medicine is 飲む'd, a sentence card about 飲むing milk/water isn't going to teach you that

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350064
>9 months ago i argued the same thing from your shoes and i got owned and i was mad and felt like i won.
not him but i genuinely did win that. an hour after the discussion started it was revealed that one of the chief complaints people were levying against sentence cards was based on a misconception of the nature of those sentences and how you go about acquiring them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350064
kek. listen here, kid. let me give you some advice. read the other persons post before telling them what they said. your blinding everyone with that projection.

learning isn't some magical thing that only a few people randomly happen to understand by immersion in manga and anime all day. learning japanese is a problem that can be broken down into smaller problems. flash cards are a great way to handle certain parts of the problem. if you can't see that after 9 months, then maybe you need to find something else, pal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350086
have fun telling yourself that

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350089
You can't learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350076
oh yea never read
>>19350088
winning doesn't mean i'm right. i'm just saying that if your opponent reveals they don't know what they're talking about, then you've won.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350096
i know more about what you're talking about than you do anon, you're just pretending that something i said is insane when it's actually a core part of the ajatt/mia philosophy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350035
Hi I'm 大男分 (Tom).

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350086
>>19350096
here for your efforts

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350086
the misconception is in your head my man
>>19350089
i didn't say flashcards have no value, i said the style flashcards we are discussing are not an efficient use of your time, i'm sorry i didn't make it clear in that one post, you might have to actually follow the conversation

[Anonymous No.]

How much do you need to read to get from the abysmal reading speed at the beginning to a pretty good speed and understanding of basic Japanese?

With a "pretty good" speed I mean that you don't have much problems grammar wise and only have to look up a few words you didn't encounter yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350101
i don't know about insane. i just know you're completely wrong and that matt makes it very clear what type of sentences you're supposed to mine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350067
You need to study 古文, dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350133
that's where matt is mistaken. there is no such thing as an n+1 sentence. the ajatt/mia philosophy revolves around immersion/input for a reason, it's impossible to know what there is to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350146
again, you're revealing you've no understanding of the process of confirming whether a sentence is i+1. you do realize you're not supposed to just randomly throw in sentences in anki because "they kinda look i+1"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350156
you don't know what i+1 is
it doesn't mean "there's a single X i don't know"

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350156
i asked you (i think you) to define i+1 for exactly this reason, so that i can tell you what >>19350160 said
standing offer

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350160
>>19350169
i'm assuming one of you is the person who claimed the problem with sentence mining is that you don't yet understand "the union of those components", so you don't know what i+1 is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350186
wasn't me but i don't think you understood what he was saying
yes you can mine the sentence that teaches you a new use of an old word but considering there will be literally millions of these sentences that's not practical

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350134
Is that the same thing that Shirane's books on classical Japanese introduce? In that case I'll read them because I've got them already.

I've already read a full translation of 西遊記 in English and it wasn't that bad aside from all the religious/historical references that went over my head, but the Japanese one is scary because these books don't have many furigana but still a ton of big words with unknown characters. Feels like my vocab deck is gonna smash 50k words before I'm done with all this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350209
Any chance you could scan those books? Pretty please?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350208
>when the patreon bucks start rolling in from all of the new little nukemarines that will be funding me forever

[Anonymous No.]

if you're bad enough at japanese to be mining sentences then any sentence you mine is going to have more than one unknown. if not in readings or definitions, then in combinations of words or nuances.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350122
Took me 5 months, I guess.
But I arrived at that point about a month after I stopped lazing around and started pushing myself to read at least one chapter of a VN everyday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350215
Shirane's? Don't they exist on books.google.com? Did a quick search and they seem to be there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350256
Maybe they aren't full versions after all, nevermind.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do you guys get so mad when you see someone doing a different method than you lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350256
"No eBook available".
Specifically, Classical Japanese: A Grammar is the one I'm interested in.

[Anonymous No.]

is it true that everyone here achieved good comprehension of the japanese language in less than a year of study

because from just looking around that's apparently how long it's supposed to take

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350268
why would i give a shit what you do
just don't argue that it's a good idea
if you are a beginner and you want to show the world matt's huge penis, consider how much more effective it would be to fuck off for 2 years with your nose to the grindstone and come back and become the first person in djt history to successfully vocaroo some toradora

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350217
If you've got enough money to fund mattat, why not just go live in Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350283
because living in japan is almost as big of a meme as listening to mattat
as far as learning japanese goes at least, if that's not why you're living in japan then good for you enjoy yourself

[Anonymous No.]

What is this character? I'm not really learning Japanese I just see it all over the place in doujins and i can't ever find it when searching for the meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
it's 鬱

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
It's one of the characters used in the common Japanese saying "the pleasure of being cummed inside."

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
it's the kanji for bush, you can tell that it's a pictograph of the branches
the sentence basically says i like me some good bushes

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350268
yea it's weird. out of nowhere they randomly shit on matt or someone. and then i come in and absolutely destroy their arguments. then an hour later they reveal they don't even understand what matt advocates. moreover, the fact that matt became fluent via the methods he preaches lends much more credence to his ideas than theirs. it's a losing game so i don't get why they try to play it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350307
>the fact that matt became fluent via the methods he preaches
buddy i know your idol's story better than you and that's the real shame here today

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
It's a mountain on top of a mountain. I don't quite understand why they use it in porn too, RTK doesn't mention anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350317
i don't think you comprehend my sentence if you think it contradicts matt stumbling through textbooks for a year or two before doing AJATT.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350307
there are many things that are objectively wrong in this post, i hope you're actually studying japanese and not just delusionally obsessed with your idols

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
I'll tell you if you sauce me up first

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350296
>>19350299
>>19350306
I don't know who to believe

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350327
the ajatt matt used isn't the ajatt matt preaches

[Anonymous No.]

anki sync keeps timing out. is it just me?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350327
i don't think you understand how learning works if you think that stumbling through textbooks and a class for a year or two before doing ajatt doesn't have an impact on how viable of a method it is for a complete beginner
also that's not the only thing that he endorses which he did not do himself

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350289
>not new IP
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.]

Who could be behind this door?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350329
the problem is that when i have an extended discussion with every person who just asserts "you're wrong", they end up revealing how ignorant they are of the topic an hour later. let's just skip the hour part and conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.
>>19350344
maybe if you sentence mined a bit more you'd understand what i said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350345
no, me too

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350352
me

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350348
delete this

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350354
fuck. now it says under maintenance

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350346
what did matt study in textbooks that made AJATT work for him and would make AJATT not work for everyone else? your answer will be extremely fascinating because you'll have to be careful that your logic doesn't apply just as much to the advice given on DJT, which is consulting tae kim, reading a lot, and looking up words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350353
aside from the fact that you wont let up on something that went over your head but you think was a mistake, since you keep talking about ignorance of the topic i'd love it if you'd admit how long you've been researching and/or doing the method you endorse

[Anonymous No.]

本喰いだ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350359
I will if you tell me the source

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350370
woah it's me!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350368
i know this will absolutely blow your fucking mind so prepare yourself, but starting any method at all from a shitty level of japanese is different than starting from zero japanese
here's a big fucking lore bomb for you my brother, this is why anime immersion was more valuable for him than someone who hasn't read tae kim yet

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350370
sorry the emoji filter ate the exclamation point character I was using
本喰いだ！！

[Anonymous No.]

Back in December I said my Japanese resolution for 2018 was to eat one volume of manga per day, but I'm only at 148.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350370
>>19350383
Good girl trapped in a mediocre show.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350402
同じく
悲

[Anonymous No.]

I base my learning methods on how vehement you guys are that they're wrong. The angrier you get, the better the method. Has been working great so far.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350416
https://vocaroo.com/?upload

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350382
>this is why anime immersion was more valuable for him than someone who hasn't read tae kim yet
so MIA will get you to fluency, but you think matt stresses too much listening in the beginning and you think people should acquire some grammar and vocab first? that's your huge caveat? wow. incredible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350416
so that means all anki all the time right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350424
i think i've found someone with a non-functioning central nervous system
it's the person i'm responding to

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350274
We first need to outline what good comprehension actually means (it probably differs a lot depending on the person). If it's 99 % understanding and correct reading of any newspaper + 99 % comprehension of a random radio show, one year is a pipe dream.

I honestly used to think that getting through a 200p CG set truly meant "knowing Japanese", good times

>>19350273
I won't forget your request, but I don't have a scanner now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350424
who the fuck said it can't get you to fluency
this entire fucking conversation has been about if it's a good idea
holy shit dude
lots of immersion will get you to fluency no matter how much time you waste on bad flashcards
you got me, this time my mind is blown

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350429
You will have my eternal gratitude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350352
mattat pissing in a jug

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350429
You can get a good rip of most books with a cut-up cardboard box and a high-resolution (8MP+) camera phone. Plus some lamps. The HJGP rip in the CoR and on the core6000 neocities site was made this way, though with a cheap digital camera, not a camera phone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350420
Why do you always post this using the upload page instead of the record page
Do you actually think anyone would bother editing their recording and shit to it make higher quality or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350429
what would you say would be an estimated timeframe for someone who does two hours a day of [80% optimal strategy here] to achieve the ability to read 99% of a newspaper correctly

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350445
The quality of the audio compression is dogshit if you use the uploading widget for some reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350432
>if it's a good idea
oh so your criticism is just some retarded appeal to some vague notion? good to know. once again, the person i'm conversing with decides to stop playing coy and get specific and reveals he's a moron. every time without fail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350450
Sorry I meant the recording widget.

[Anonymous No.]

Why should I listen to any of you if you all suck at Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350420
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OTKp8m4GWY

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350235
Thanks anon, I can see what I can do with with a few months of reading VNs

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350453
show me one single post that says that it is not viable
every single post said that it's inefficient and a waste of time
not a single post said that immersing in japanese will not teach you japanese
if you've been here for more than a fucking day you would know that it is universally agreed upon that consuming media is how you learn japanese
you know what? if you read genki and then consume japanese you will also learn japanese, i guess that means genki is fucking fantastic
you could do KKLC and then do RTK1+3 after KKLC and then you could practice 3000 more kanji before you even start learning japanese and then you could consume japanese and you will learn japanese, shit dude, learn 6000 kanji before you start japanese, it's proven to work, you will become fluent

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350475
fun post

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350470
BASED

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350475
oh no someone wasted 4 months of the multi-year long process to fluency on too much audio in the beginning! your argument is a joke. if you find MIA too boring then don't do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350489
this isn't about mia dude it's about sentence cards

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350492
actually, that's just the same retard bitching about how ajatt/mia stresses too much audio in the beginning and uses that as evidence that ajatt/mia is "inefficient" - yet he never provides examples of people more fluent than khatz or matt after a year or two of whatever method he preaches. why? because very few of them exist. it goes to show that you can only nitpick some aspect of ajatt/mia as being "inefficient" compared to some gold standard that nobody lives up to.

but yea sentence cards obviously work based on khatz and matt's fluency too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350489
it's proclaimed to be an efficient method, therefore i argue that it is not efficient, you've moved the goalpost to "well it'll get you to where you're going" and it's fucking pathetic

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350512
doing x then getting y doesn't mean that x causes y

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350519
good point. maybe they got so good at japanese because they were touched by an angel or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350523
no it's because they consumed input

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350512
the fact that very few people consume japanese for 2 years has nothing to do with the fact that two examples of people who did happened to do a bunch of unnecessary bullshit at the same time

[Anonymous No.]

Why is 99.99% of the arguing in this thread about how much artificial bootstrapping you should do before you settle into the pattern of consuming media?

In my assessment if you spend a week or three learning the radicals and recognizing a bunch of common kanji it'll greatly improve your retention when you DO start reading, but I'm sure people disagree, and finally I just can't imagine giving enough of a shit to argue about whether it's a good use of time or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350516
>you've moved the goalpost to "well it'll get you to where you're going"
wrong. it's about how fast you'll get there compared to other methods. not only can you not prove that it's inefficient compared to some imaginary standard that you've shown no evidence of anyone living up to, but even if you did, it'd still only be inefficient compared to that imaginary standard. of course now that matt has created MIA your point is moot anyway. not doing much active listening in the beginning would still fit into MIA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350548
because the people who are most persistent in stupid beliefs are also beginners

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350548
no idea. insecure beginners feel the need to attack unimportant e-celebs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350563
you're a beginner

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

You're all beginners, and I as the sole person who knows nihongo must guide you all to the path of success. That is because, of course, I am the nihongo paster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350550
that's not what you said here >>19350424 and here >>19350453
you're the one who made this more vague, the entire discussion was about the fact that sentence cards are inefficient, but you've given up on that and are now saying "well matt said immersion is good so mia is the most efficient method even if you're not specific about what the fuck you mean when you say it"
ajatt was "choose your own adventure" before matt had a youtube channel
consider fucking off until you've actually started learning japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350590
neither of those two posts contradict what i just said. please address my deconstruction of your moronic point. or maybe you concede. i accept that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350601
Let me repeat what they said.
>consider fucking off until you've actually started learning japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350601
you haven't addressed a single fucking thing i've said in this entire discussion so i'm going to repeat myself
>consider fucking off until you've actually started learning japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350612
i definitely addressed it but you didn't respond to any of it. so i guess you're just gonna be another coward who pretends it never happened. sad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350444
Oh shit I found an instruction for that method on the net and I actually have one of those big mobile phone tripods, maybe I can make something happen more quickly. No promises though, seems like a pain in the ass. Hope there's people in here who have an actual need for learning what's in those books.

>>19350448
I'm not sure if I could do it myself and I am at pic related. I've been working on the deck for over 3 years. I've also read a lot. Maybe not as much as I could have, but many nukige/doujinshi, many dozens of manga volumes + a bunch of normal books and LNs. etc

When I browsed these threads in 2014 I also asked how long it would take. Didn't get any meaningful responses (not surprising in hindsight) so I just began. Bumbled my way thru Namasensei -> RTK -> Tae Kim and then downloaded Core6k and went from that (later manually added 4k words from Core10k, ridiculous) and started mining while reading. Don't worry too much, start, have fun and have the mindset that it will take years. Life goes by quickly anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350621
>so i guess you're just gonna be another coward who pretends it never happened.
Lack of introspection surfaces through projection.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350460
This

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350636
For what it's worth I scanned two entire 700~ page books, one with a scanner, and one with the camera method, and the camera method was WAY less annoying. It was way easier to take breaks and easier to re-photograph a fucked up page than to rescan it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350612
>>19350621
oh one last thing:
>you're the one who made this more vague, the entire discussion was about the fact that sentence cards are inefficient, but you've given up on that
no idea what you're talking about. indeed it was about sentences but you guys stopped making arguments after i called out your misunderstanding of the process of mining i+1 sentences. afterwards one of you changed the topic to ajatt not being good because matt didn't start ajatt until he had a year of textbook study in high school under his belt. so then i asked what about textbooks made ajatt work for him and propel him to fluency after 2 years, you accused me of shifting the goal post from "ajatt is efficient" to "ajatt gets you to fluency", i destroyed that point, and now here we are with you ignoring everything i said. but yea, argument over. i win again. make sure you watch yourself the next time you say something dumb about an e-celeb whose fluency you're jealous of for some weird reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350662
thanks for calling out those sick plays ref

[Anonymous No.]

god damn I sure love reading the same discussions over and over

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350678
> This is the 1958 time we've had this discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350653
Yeah. I'll get a cardboard box somewhere later.

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPfVpxmrO1o

even ISIS did japanese far better than you

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
>Some sandnigger knows Japanese and I don't
Man, I might as well end it

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
cute accent

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
I'd fuck her voice

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350797
I don't think
How

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350420
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1HrCy6U8ea0

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350800
Try thinking outside of the box

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350806
You sound like a girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350822
i have the same disease andy milonakis does im 69 years old but i look and sound like im 10

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350822
It's a voice changer, retard. Are you deaf? Also fuck you for giving a (You) to that awful post, now he's going to shitpost more as seen above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350636
Manga isn't reading though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350825
It feels kinda weird having a 69 year old girl posting on here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350831
your life is a shit post by 神様

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350831
he's already collected thousands of (You)s from his prior shitposts, what makes you think that one made a difference

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350832
Kuso！ damasareta

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350840
its more like this

[Anonymous No.]

Be the change you want to see in the world. Stop giving lowercase posters (You)s.

[Anonymous No.]

i dont care about yous because i already own a piece of real estate in your brain

forever

[Anonymous No.]

be the change you want to see in the world, show djt that lowercase posters are the only posters that matter. i reserve uppercase for shitposting, lowercase is for cold hard truth

[Anonymous No.]

what matters is (you) learnin nihongo so why arent you

[Anonymous No.]

hEY gUYS iM nEW hERE yオロシク

[Anonymous No.]

Because it's impossible to learn

[Anonymous No.]

as long as you know why you're here it's all good

[Anonymous No.]

This thread sucks

[Anonymous No.]

Yeah bring back the 2 hour sentence card debate please. I made popcorn and then it fizzled.

[Anonymous No.]

personally every time i come to djt (adult joke #1) i feel like im walking into the world of the classic cheers sitcom except instead of there being a bunch of cool characters everyone is gay and talking in katanakana and im frasier

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350873
>everyone is gay
(adult joke #2)
>katanakana
(freebie for the youngsters)
>im frasier
(adult joke #3)

[Anonymous No.]

This is the rigor mortis of /djt/, I wish we could already go ahead with the funeral.

[Anonymous No.]

>「で、アキに告白して断られたわけ。まだここに来るようになって、一週間くらいの時だよな。はやっ」

>「アキちゃんの方でも戸惑っててね」

>スバルが苦笑を浮かべて、こころに説明する。小声になった。

>「ウレシノが自分を見ると気まずそうにしたりするのが、アキちゃんとしてもちょっとやりにくいみたいで」

I'm a little confused here, they're talking about how Ureshino confessed (maybe?) to a girl named Aki. For the first sentence, is the speaker saying that Aki hasn't come in a week? And for the last sentence, who is 自分 referring to? And what does Aki find difficult to do? After this they completely change the subject to something else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350914
It's useless to try. Just move on with your life and let us make it into the based /mia/ it always deserved to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
cute

[Anonymous No.]

Currently watching I Am A Hero (no subs of course) and it’s pretty neat. Is the manga worth eating?

[Anonymous No.]

i read that manga it was dope

[Anonymous No.]

manga isn't reading

[Anonymous No.]

it is for me

just obviously is not for djt because they cant actually read it

[Anonymous No.]

Ａｎｙｔｈｉｎｇ　ｓｈｏｒｔ　ｏｆ　Ｋｏｊｉｋｉ　ｏｒｉｇｉｎａｌ　ｍａｎｕｓｃｒｉｐｔ　ｉｓ　ｎｏｔ　ｒｅａｄｉｎｇ

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350922
彼に自分の出したゴミを目の前で物色された。

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350922
Is that まだ a また typo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350976
So it's saying he's disgusted with himself?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350980
Nope, it's まだ.

[Anonymous No.]

toddlers dont start by reading harry potter

they start by reading unko chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>19348094
good post

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350981
Hence why he hasn't been there in a week.

[Anonymous No.]

As for me, reading it is

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350922
>For the first sentence, is the speaker saying that Aki hasn't come in a week?
no,「ウレシノがアキに告白して断られたのは、ここに来るようになって一週間くらいの時だ
(that happened a week after they(? we?) had come here.)」

>And for the last sentence, who is 自分 referring to?
自分＝アキ

>And what does Aki find difficult to do?
「ちょっとやりにくい」=feel awkward
「ウレシノが自分を見ると気まずそうにすること」makes her feel awkward.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351026
Do you realise that ignoring the まだ adverb in that phrase changes its nuance significantly

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350980
>>19350984
「まだ」で意味は通る（make sense）よ。
まだ1週間＝only a week

[Anonymous No.]

まあまだよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351026
I feel so stupid now, thank you! I realize that I need a better understanding of 自分, and that commas exist for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>I realize that I need a better understanding of 自分

なんかいいこと言いましたね爆笑

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351034
>changes its nuance
ちょっとだけ変わる。
he confessed to her "too" early みたいな意味になる。
だから、「はやっ（早っ）」って言ってる。

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351026
Who the fuck confesses to a girl one week after they've met her lmao

[Anonymous No.]

The loss of MoeManga was a heavy blow indeed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349790
>even remembering the meaning isn't as important as you fuckers think
Thoughts? I'm curious if anyone has tried vocab cards for readings only. It'd be faster right? Which means more reading.

[Anonymous No.]

Do you guys think writing down a couple of kanji I'm having trouble remembering a couple of pages will help with memorisation?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351061
一目惚れだよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351084
No

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351084
They aren't sticking because you aren't reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351084
Are you sure you're not remembering? I heard here that RTK is unnecessary so you should be able to recognize and distinguish all kanji no sweat.

[Anonymous No.]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA/mobilebasic?pli=1 Found you guys through this old guide. This is all out of date and the current thread covers all of this and more right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351110
The guide in the OP is newer but still outdated. It hasn't been changed at all in months.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351098
i do read though, it's just that i haven't came across that word for 2 months now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/qa/2168460

[Anonymous No.]

I should've learned Korean

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351128
>optimally there should be three japanese shitposting generals on different boards
i get what you're going for here but are the mods really based enough to allow that

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351128
alternatively: kill djt's shriveling corpse so a better community can form

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351110
>sentence mining
how old is that

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351158
fucking ancient

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351145
>so a better community can form
what fantasy world are you in

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351164
one where niche forums didn't get killed off by reddit and people understood that moderation is a good thing

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351133
You mean Mandarin

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351168
you talk about getting killed off by reddit and then ask for your reddit style safe space

if you dont have contributions that outshine everything else you are just white noise

seriously just go to reddit all your problems will actually be solved

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351158
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MOL822Z70BLJZNmDsVQeB5PEeFCFgpIbVLFkfb5eELw/edit?pli=1# I found it here. Idk how old this is or where this even came from.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351133
What do you mean "should've"? You don't know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351202
>I should've learned Korean [instead of trying to learn Japanese]
i think you need to visit the daily english thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351209
if there was a grid with little colored boxes for the big picture of nihongo youd have one tiny box in a sea of billions half shaded in right now

and maybe one more slightly shaded in box in a totally different quadrant

and thats it

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351122
Just make custom sentences with words you don't see often / have trouble remembering in a notepad and read them from time to time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351210
No you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351128
>help, we are cancer. please let us spread
wow, if that won't convince them I don't know what will

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
Absolutely subversive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19350779
but can she read the beginning of muramasa

[Anonymous No.]

I did it, I finally finished it. Feels good man.
/blog

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351285
Why does Yotsuba never fucking grow up?

[Anonymous No.]

Should I follow the guide here or the one on /r/learnjapanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351285
Congratz friend. I never went past the two first volumes when I started out. I probably need to pick it up again especially now that I accumlated a bit of skill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351296
/r/learnjapanese
The guide made here is mostly just a meme and a part of DJT culture. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351294
because the 13 volumes out right now take place in about 3.5 months

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351134
Maybe they will come back to /jp/

>>19351257
Well that's not my argument. I elaborated in a reply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351285
Next chapter when

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351356
september 2017
followed by january 2018

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349106
retard

[Anonymous No.]

Thread's been so shit lately, I ain't even in the mood to complain about 思いますと思います

[Anonymous No.]

と思います故に居ます

[Anonymous No.]

STOP LEARNING JAPANESE
THE AGE OF KOREAN HAS ARRIVED

[Anonymous No.]

Korean media is boring

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351084
No, it won't.

[Anonymous No.]

Korea
More like diarrhea

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351515
unironically upboating this

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351385
not an argument

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351513
Also Japanese is harder so you feel smug and entertained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351513
Variety shows are top tier

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351537
Korean is most definitely harder than Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351535
yeah I didn't feel like arguing with a retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351552
it's certainly not "definitely" and it's not in general

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351552
[insert image indicating that Japanese is the hardest language for English natives to learn according to a US government agency experienced in teaching hundreds of thousands of diplomats various languages]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351469

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351554
dang dude how do you think i feel thanks back to my japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351565
Really

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351578
fo sho because based hanguel

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351572
who cares what a retard feels lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351569
Just not true tho
Korean pronunciation and grammar is way harder
But muh kanji am I right

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351586
>grammar is way harder
Confirmed for knowing neither Korean nor Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351586
they don't teach reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351586
>grammar is way harder
this guy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351592
let me fix this
they don't teach advanced literacy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351586
>pronunciation
Why do I get the feeling it's only people who believe in outputting in the first few months of learning a language who thinks this matters? Though I can understand something like Chinese being difficult because of tones.

[Anonymous No.]

Korean idols are more talented and attractive than Japanese ones, and their bangumi and dorama are more various and higher quality than their Japanese counterparts

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351609
mainstream korean idols are victims of systematic lifelong abuse and giving their professional media industry the time of day is an act of criminal blasphemy

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351615
so like all idols then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351591


>>19351595
Not an argument

>>19351606
The difference between constants like ㅂ ㅍand ㅃ can become so little in conversation that for non natives it can be extremely difficult to properly hear it, and therefore hard to reproduce the subtle differences.

[Anonymous No.]

>when a Japanese native tells you you're 上手

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351620
japanese idols don't have it quite as bad, though it's still pretty bad
there are, however, parts of the japanese media industry that don't depend on abusing idols, and a massive hobby/indie media production culture with no strong equivalent in korea

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351630
>when a Japanese native tells you you're なかなかいいじゃない

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351630
Your image is supposed to represent shame, yet, she's smiling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351630
>>19351642
>yfw you realise it's just them being polite and you are actually still 下手

[Anonymous No.]

>Japanese idols don't have it as bad

t. akip while sending 15 year olds to gravure shoots

[Anonymous No.]

＞when your bromodachis tell you お前マジかっけえわ

[Anonymous No.]

oh shit
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351656
you have no idea just how bad korean idols have it lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351669
>>19351656
this a good conversation you should continue it on reddit

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351669
Could you expand on that, you sound like an insider.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351677
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8LxORztUWY

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351609
>idols
remind me why anyone should care

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351630
There's was this one time when I was applying to N3 and the lady who took the application forms asked what level I was going to take
As soon as I said "N3" she just yelled 日本語上手ですね！ like I was some kind of nihongo master or something. I guess for a nipponzin it's considered a great feat for a foreigner to apply to a level other than N5.

[Anonymous No.]

>I was applying to N3

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351704
she literally just lifted up one leg and hit you with a barrage of epic fecal spray ownage but you relished in it because it was a japanese persons

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly by being N3 that anon is already better than 99% of this thread

[Anonymous No.]

where my 1%er boys at

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351723
is 1% N3 or N2?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351728
1% is N5

[Anonymous No.]

How do I get out of N6? I still haven't done any reading or vocab.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351731
try reading or vocab
in fact even eating manga would be a bet positive

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351730
this guy knows what's up

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351731
Mine sentence cards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351737
do this if you want to make progress and feel like you're doing japanese but actually waste like 90% of the effort you're spending

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351731
mine manga pages

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351731
Put entire visual novels into Anki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351748
would you have romeo tanaka and hajime yamada as the same deck or would you separate them

[Anonymous No.]

世の中には、親切な人が大勢いるのです
椅子に座って、引き金を絞る
必要なのは勇気だけ

translation, please

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351761
I'd go all out and put them on the same card.

[Anonymous No.]

Today I walked into a ramen shop and said いらしゃいませ and everyone clapped and said 日本語うまいですね

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351763
this is not a translation thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351766
You misspelled irassyaimase but if that was on purpose you're a damn genius

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351765
youd only have to write one word on that card

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351773
i think it was on purpose but also you don't know japanese so it kind of was 一石二鳥 you know

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351780
神様

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351782
Please stop posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351783
yesss

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351689
What a shithole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351773
Has anyone ever considered the potential intellectual benefit to forcing the habit of using nipponsyiki in your IME? I think it would really get you in the mindset of a native to more consistently map the keystrokes to the kana that you are trying to enter rather than approximating their phonetics. After all, that's how most natives type, they don't do that shi shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351806
No because the thought of typing "tuma" every time I want to look up some 妻寝取られ makes me chortle

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351806
Yeah I agree but you have to learn how to spell at least nipponsiki first

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351816
why would you ever use three keystrokes where two is sufficient on a regular basis

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351824
I don't produce long sentences in Japanese nor will I ever. Doesn't really make much of a difference

[Anonymous No.]

wapuro when using your ime, phonetic when for some reason romanizing something
it's not hard

[Anonymous No.]

>>19349108
it's just words, how is it not readin

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351827
This is why you'll never learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351833
It's cooking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351836
>he calls masturbation cooking
that's a new one

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351851
nhk easy isn't masturbation

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351856
i'm dropping some brutal honesty on you right now
yes it is

[Anonymous No.]

I'm honestly thinking about doing KLC just because being able to write kanji sounds like a neat skill to have and a way to impress people. I'm in no rush so maybe something like 5 or 10 a day would be nice

[Anonymous No.]

cool have fun learning your neat skill instead of japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351874
KKLC isn't designed for production it's for recognition
have you learned any japanese yet? if not i guess do rtk, if you have you should just make recall cards for some words you know spread out across kanji you want to be able to recall, no reason to associate with english keywords

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351886
kklc contains instructions on how to use it for coherent writing practice
you wouldn't know that though, you just force people to use rtk, which you haven't even finished or put the skills it teaches to real use yet

[Anonymous No.]

>>19347980
Now you tell me who won
I see them, they run
They don't wanna see us
Whole Junior M.I.A. Clique
Dressing up trying to be us
How the fuck they gonna be the mob when we always on our job?
We millionaires
Killing ain't fair but somebody got to do it
Oh yeah, Matt Deep you wanna fuck with us
You little young-ass motherfuckers
Don't one of you ninjas got sickle-cell or something
You're fucking with me, ninja you fuck around and catch a seizure or a heart attack
You better back the fuck up before you get smacked the fuck up
This is how we do it on our side
Any of you ninjas from Reddit that want to bring it, bring it
But we ain't singing, we bringing drama
Fuck you and your motherfucking mama
We're gonna kill all you motherfuckers
Now when I came out, I told you it was just about Georgie
Then everybody had to open their mouth with a motherfucking opinion
Well this is how we gonna do this
Fuck Matt Deep, fuck Khatz
Fuck AJATT as a staff, website and as a motherfucking crew
And if you want to be down with AJATT, then fuck you too
Nuke Marine, fuck you too
All you motherfuckers, fuck you too
All of y'all mother fuckers, fuck you, die slow, motherfucker
My nihongo flow make sure all y'all kids don't grow
You motherfuckers can't be us or see us
We motherfuckin' Thug Life-riders, Westside 'til we die
Out here in DJT, ninja, we warned ya
We'll bomb on you motherfuckers. We do our job
You think you mob? Ninja, we the motherfuckin' mob
Ain't nothing but killers and the real ninjas
All you motherfuckers feel us
Our shit goes triple and 4-quadruple
You ninjas laugh 'cause our staff got
Flashcards under they motherfuckin' belts
You know how it is, when we drop threads they felt
You ninjas can't feel it, we the realest
Fuck 'em, we AJATT-killers

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351892
you're confusing that guy with me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351898
cursed post

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351901
i'm not i'm just being mean because you recommended rtk to someone who didn't ask about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351907
i'm not the guy who recommended he do RTK in place of KLC. however that sounds like something i would do since disagreeing with others is OK.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351892
>you just force people to use rtk
i would never tell someone to use rtk unless they specifically state that they want to work on the one thing that rtk teaches you, which has nothing to do with learning japanese
i just happen to know that kklc isn't a magic bullet and it's designed for one thing, the same way that rtk isn't a magic bullet and it's designed for one different thing
by the way i'm learning japanese but keep projecting

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351886
5-6 months in, I can sorta chew myself through basic manga and get the gist. Armed with a dictionary of course. about 2100~ into core and 300-400 mined words. I would say I'm mid N4 level at best

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351930
then i think doing either book as intended by associating english keywords with the kanji is not an efficient use of your time

[Anonymous No.]

>if not i guess do rtk

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351922
kklc is designed for writing

[Anonymous No.]

*shits in the thread*

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351955
kklc is designed for the trash
before you get offended, rtk is too

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351966
kklc is less bad than rtk by virtue of not having an incredibly retarded order of kanji so whatever you say about it i don't care

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351971
oh you're that guy, everything you say is right please stop posting because it's a waste of your effort when you're already the winner

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351985
can't discern intentions

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351981
empty words to sell more copies
does he give you any advice on how to actually accomplish this that isn't ridiculous
spoiler: the answer is no

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351994
yes

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351996
i spoiled the answer and you went ahead and made a fool of yourself anyway
try finding somewhere where he says a sensible way to recall the kanji so that you can test yourself on reproducing it from memory

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352006
let me guess: you think rtk gives coherent advice on how to learn to write the kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352011
no, i think it gives a method that you can follow that isn't completely broken, i'm waiting for you to find an author-endorsed method of practicing reproducing kanji from memory
i already told you that rtk is shit too but you don't seem to be good at paying attention

[Anonymous No.]

>Buy heavy paper (about twice the thickness of normal index cards), unlined and with a semigloss finish. Cut it into cards of about 9 cm. long and 6 cm. wide. On one side, make a large ball-pen drawing of one kanji in the top two-thirds of the card.

The actual state of what RTK actually says.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352025
reproduction practice advice
note how it doesn't depend on you liking flashcards or srs

[Anonymous No.]

>japanese level up sells you anki decks for literally 100s of dollars
>AJATT has a paid mailing list and some meme 80s SRS site
>matt is all about patraen bucks
When did you realise that Ajatt(and its variates is just a scam?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352037
note: you can use a card to cover up the kanji and mnemonics instead of the keywords and mnemonics

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352041
It's /mia/, not /ajatt/, you dirty plebeian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352028
you're right, kklc is better because it was written in the era of anki, my bad my man
let's be serious here: one of them has a salvageable method to practice writing that can be adapted to srs, one of them does not
>>19352037
right right go through the entire book page by page attempting to cover up 80% of the entry while also not looking at the entries you're going to try next, you honestly think this is a good idea? have you tried this yourself? how did you handle this by the way?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352041
It only scams retards. Everything you need to know is free.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352057
i guess you didn't actually read it because it said to prepare a card with which to cover the pages

yes i have done it, though i didn't use kklc for more than a couple random pages in the middle that contained some of my favorite kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352063
oh so you mean a two-page card that you insert that covers both pages then
why are you endorsing something as feasible when you didn't do it
the fact that the method works for "a couple random pages in the middle" is not evidence that it works for 2200 kanji, i think you're smart enough to realize this
i want to let you in on a little secret: i own the book and i know what it says

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352081
you're only supposed to cover one page at a time
temporarily seeing a kanji for a moment before you practice recalling it isn't going to hurt you

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352086
temporarily seeing the kanji for a moment before you practice recalling makes recall practice invalid

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352093
wow i guess you're forbidden from reading ever until you finish learning how to write all the kanji
get a grip

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352057
Wow that was so hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352098
i'm talking about seeing it a matter of seconds before you test yourself on it, i'm sorry that this conversation is difficult for you to follow

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352106
or you could, like, wait a few more seconds until you don't remember what they looked like anymore lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352106
It's not hard to close your eyes while shuffling some paper around dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352105
you didn't answer the question relating to the image
i'll answer it for you: you'll deal with it by remembering "the first cape on the page of capes" "the second cape ..." "the third cape ..."
>>19352109
i wish my memory was as bad as yours
>>19352111
this is a fair argument but it emphasizes how fucking ridiculous that strategy is

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352113
you're not going to need to differentiate those three kanji in writing until you know the words in them my friend
rtk is even worse for this because the keywords aren't meanings and there's no vocabulary to attach the kanji to

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352113
if you can remember multiple intricate shapes that you didn't intentionally commit to memory for more than a few seconds then you're a savant

[Anonymous No.]

- "cape" used at the end of placenames read as saki
- meaningless kanji used in saitama
- "cape" read as misaki
wow that was hard

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352122
i'm glad you're at least partially enlightened because as i said in the beginning rtk is shit too, it's just slightly more compatible with taking a sane and feasible approach to reviewing its content
>>19352128
you're literally intentionally committing them to memory, that's the entire fucking point of any of this, what the fuck are you thinking my dude

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352137
kklc gives you the information needed to meaningfully disambiguate kanji with the same meaning

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352135
saitama isn't visible with the paper shield

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352143
write it next to the keywords my friend

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352063
>though i didn't use kklc for more than a couple random pages
Then you don't have enough experience with either book because they're most often compared in terms of people trying to remember all the kanji. And that makes me wonder why you seem to have such a strong opinion on them. I can say from personal experience that because of RTK's mnemonics I can recall how to write the kanji. That's the purpose of the book and it works. I'm not knocking KKLC because I haven't looked at it closely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352140
i disagree
>>19352146
then you'll remember it as "the kanji that has a handwritten reading next to it"

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352153
that's fine. it's only one kanji in a bucket. that argument only works if you only handwrite next to a few kanji and a few problematic kanji aren't going to kill you. rtk has problematic entries too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352148
i also did a random part of rtk before realizing how incomplete and full of holes it was

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352156
you're the person who only used it for a few kanji right? this problem pops up at least a dozen times with kanji right next to each other, and a few more with kanji that aren't right next to each other and you don't realize are easy to mix up until you ask yourself why you keep fucking it up

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352159
>random part
That's a problem. RTK continually builds upon previous mnemonics. But that explains why you didn't like it. You're not using it in a way that most people do. You should probably mention that next time you start comparing them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352171
the problem you're having is that you're trying to produce kanji from keywords

[Anonymous No.]

Satan
The quality of this thread
I shouldn't have come back

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352175
you're right this is totally incomprehensible and pointless without having done the rest of rtk first

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352177
have you been following this discussion long sir? i was told that kklc is meant for handwriting practice and shown a section of the book where it says the goal is to reproduce purely from memory, i asked how to prompt memory and was given "cover up everything but the keywords"

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352200
producing strokes from keywords is not the only form of writing, nor is it actually a form of writing that you will use when writing out passages of japanese text on paper

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352186
It's not incomprehensible but if you've already used nose and heart in previous stories then it's much easier to recall how to write the kanji when you see "breath". And of course stroke order was taught upon those components' initial introductions. It's easy to just look that up though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352200
i didn't say that
>note: you can use a card to cover up the kanji and mnemonics

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352205
my friend if you need rtk to figure out how to write 自 there's something wrong with you

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352204
and yet that is tangential to the discussion at hand that was prompted by someone saying that they wanted to learn to write individual kanji from memory
>>19352210
i'm not following what you're getting at here

[Anonymous No.]

Where do you guys find text based light novels outside of the library? It sucks to reach the end of what the library has to offer while there are still more volumes of that series.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352214
Time to graduate from rikai and read scans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352213
you said
>i asked how to prompt memory and was given "cover up everything but the keywords"
when in reality what was said was
>note: you can use a card to cover up the kanji and mnemonics
i guess you assumed that kklc doesn't have a field for readings?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352220
oh you're being pedantic, right, i realized that i forgot to say readings right after i posted and then for some reason i dismissed the possibility of being called out on it
yeah readings are a thing i guess

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352223
the backpedaling is real
how can you possibly act like this after having several exchanges about keyword -> writing as in the same thing rtk does lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352226
enlighten me on what i've backpedaled on

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352211
Not sure what your point is. Yes you can remember how to write any kanji in correct stroke order in isolation. I thought I already referenced the difference between you and most people using these books.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352234
hint: those kanji are different ways of writing the same morpheme

you would know this if you knew japanese. or if you looked at the vocabulary lists. or read the mnemonics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352240
most people using these books are going to quit halfway so i'm not sure what the deal is

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352218
>>19352214
Why is DJT literally never able to answer any question I ask.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352234
Backpedaling on keywords->kanji is a thing.

>>19352258
This question has been asked a lot. In short: Japanese pirates of novels and LNs prefer scans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352258
I did answer it. There is no magical secret source, you need to buy them or read scans like Japanese pirates do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352243
i know this, i fail to see the relevance of it to the discussion
i'd accept "recall both at the same time" but that would be another thing that makes this ridiculous
i'd accept "cut out another piece of the paper that reveals the 常 or 名" but that would be another thing that makes this ridiculous
>>19352261
all i ever asked what what to use to prompt your memory, i'm truly sorry that i accidentally didn't say readings in that one post but i assure you they were on my mind, they were not forgotten, i will do my best not to slip up again so that you can't change the subject but i admit i am fallible

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352255
OK.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352271
you're remembering both of them either way i'm not sure what the deal is
surely you don't think that sticking these into an srs as separate cards is a good idea

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352261
>>19352264
Can you not find 青空文庫 files online of light novels? I hate scans because they are almost always shit.

[Anonymous No.]

did someone just try to argue that one book is better because you can manually move a paper around on the page instead of just using anki/srs software.

[Anonymous No.]

no

[Anonymous No.]

anki is garbage for writing so yeah

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352284
If we're talking about SRS then nothing the books say or do matters but their ordering and their data, because neither of them recommend SRS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352278
nah but KKLC did make them separate entries in spite of one of them not being 常用 so why don't you defer to their expertise
before you say that RTK did too, i refer you to my original statement: rtk is also shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352293
they're separate entries because all kanji that are included have their own entry

[Anonymous No.]

because kklc is also for recognition
you have to adapt it to how you're using it, just like rtk

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352289
but the point of anki is its SRS. you still write the kanji once on a piece of paper.

[Anonymous No.]

yes. srs is bad for writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352291
>because neither of them recommend SRS.
this is actually related to why both are shit
but a significant reason why rtk is less shit for writing is because it's at least compatible with srs for writing
>>19352298
close but no cigar, the answer is actually >>19352302
however
>>19352302
you've almost got it right, the problem with your statement is that kklc is ONLY for recognition, and "lol you could probably use it for recall too" was hacked on to sell more copies to people who think that is a better idea

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352310
actually i've been holding an elaborate charade this entire time, let me reveal my true form:
the actual purpose of kklc is to trick people who don't know any japanese but are looking to learn to write the kanji into learning about how japanese words work and to drop it halfway (around 1000~1200) and do reading instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352314
if you had said this in the first place i would have agreed with you immediately, why did we have this debate

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352320
because i'm autistic

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352321
it's okay dude i might be too, at least in the end we both lose

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352309
then why does it work great for me.

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone help me translate this?

世の中には、親切な人が大勢いるのです

椅子に座って、引き金を絞る
必要なのは勇気だけ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352326
even things that are bad can work
that doesn't mean other things aren't better
there's nothing wrong with knowingly doing something "suboptimal" if you prefer it though

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352334
read the OP

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352334
If you're actually translating: no.

If you're trying to understand it for personal reasons and you're just calling it "translation" for no good reason: yes. Provide your understanding of it and where the holes are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352336
>even things that are bad can work
>that doesn't mean other things aren't better
actually we established like six hours ago that it does mean that other things aren't better, i'm sorry you missed that intense debate

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352341
i'm not sure about that

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352336
i can learn to write 20 kanji with correct stroke order per day in an hour. for weeks in a row. is there a better way of retaining it? i'm being facetious by asking this question because i know the answer is no lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352348
yeah, first you learn japanese to the point that you can make reliable productions, then you can learn to write it in like two weeks

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352350
by brute force by the way, just handwriting whatever pops into your head

[Anonymous No.]

おはようおにいちゃん

きょうもいちにちがんばって


おはしはおはしでも

いっぽんでつかって

ねじをまわすおはしは

なーんだ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352350
>>19352354
that's a lot more work for the same results.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352359
it's less work because you don't have to relearn how to write from mental japanese instead of keywords

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352348
>kanji with correct stroke order
i'm sorry to inform you of this but if you couldn't write correct stroke order after checking twice, three times max for each component that is actually new to you, there's something seriously wrong
>>19352359
it's less work actually, hence "in like two weeks" being an accurate statement
unless you mean "learning japanese is a lot more work" in which case you are correct

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352367
to be fair i've been doing lazy writing practice for years and still stuggle to remember which storke order for 必 is chinese and which is japanese
but that's irrelevant

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352365
>you don't have to relearn how to write from mental japanese instead of keywords
that doesn't happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352372
that's easy dude, here's a rule that works for the majority of japanese/chinese pairs: the japanese stroke order is dumb

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352379
oh so you're stuck with keywords forever? cool

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352383
no. it's just not a "relearn" process. it's seamless.

[Anonymous No.]

The only way to actually learn Japanese is to go back to the feudal age and show up in Japan with nothing, then learn the language by exposure from the natives, while living a normal farmhand life. Maybe teach them a few things about modern science.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352389
it doesn't matter whether you don't want to call it relearning or how seamless it is, it's relearning and takes time

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352185
mods want it dead

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352392
>it's relearning and takes time
if it happens seamlessly with no conscious effort on your part then what does it matter that you're "relearning" it. that makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352389
you can call it a "learn" process too but the fact is you spent more time building associations with keywords before you learned what kanji go in what words than you would have if you skipped the initial associations

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352398
because it's not writing until that process is over, and it does indeed take work because it doesn't happen if you never write based on words

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352367
>it's less work actually, hence "in like two weeks" being an accurate statement
it's a lot, lot more work. nobody rote memorizes how to write 3000 kanji by spending an hour per day for a few months without using heisig. you have to count the time you spent initially recognizing and association them with words too.

[Anonymous No.]

recalling which kanji are in a word is part of the process of writing based on the japanese in your head
rtk does not teach you this. you have to learn it anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352410
That's cool but recognizing and associating kanji with words doesn't mean you'll remember which ones are in it when you go to write it by hand, except for really basic shit like 白い or 猫.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352419
of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352422
Here's the thing.

That's the part they're saying you have to do after RTK. That you do in two weeks if you skipped RTK and just learned Japanese, at the same time as recalling stroke orders.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352423
i still don't understand what you're saying but heisig's method makes the process much faster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352430
No, you can skip it entirely and just learn to write whatever kanji are in the words you're writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352431
if your plan is to write a limited set then sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352434
At this point I think you're intentionally trying not to understand or process the point that's being made here. Bad faith.

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone else had this issue where keyboard layouts you haven't installed appear? I uninstalled and reinstalled google IME and it's still showing up, and it doesn't show up in my keyboard layouts. This is really hurting my autism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352430
no i think you're confused on how this works
let me break it down

option a.
3-4 months of rtk
like two years of japanese to associate kanji with words

option b.
like two years of japanese to associate kanji with words
2 weeks of practicing stroke order and writing some random shit that comes to mind

option b is shorter than option a

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352437
if it's not in this list then something is wrong with the language bar, try logging in and out or rebooting, or just changing the list of installed things slightly

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352439
i think you're confused. spending those initial months with RTK makes associating kanji with words much easier because the keywords are usually related to the word.

so it's more like
option a.
3-4 months of rtk
like one year of japanese to associate kanji with words

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352439
it's actually

option a.
2-4 months of rtk
2~4 years developing japanese literacy
a week or two of practicing recalling the kanji from words

option b.
2~4 years developing japanese literacy
2 weeks of practicing stroke order and writing some random shit that comes to mind. maybe an extra week if you're super bad and literally never considered how kanji are written

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352258
I downloaded the kindle app on my phone/laptop and bought shit from amazon.jp Be sure to get a japanese vpn though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352448
>those initial months with RTK makes associating kanji with words much easier
This is what RTKdrones actually believe.

The hard part is not associating kanji with words, it's learning their readings.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352437
Is there a reason to use google IME over windows IME?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352448
this is false but it is the marketing tagline so congratulations on remembering it
>>19352450
this is correct i apologize for misrepresenting

[Anonymous No.]

When you're actually literate at Japanese, your brain goes straight from the kanji to the word, but in the process of learning, it has to build a model of the Japanese word that contains its readings and senses, then attaches the kanji to that. The process of actually associating the kanji with the word is trivial, but it's difficult to surface the word itself based on the kanji while learning to read unless you know how the kanji are read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352440
Yea I restarted once and it fixed it at first but it came back after an unknown period of time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352460
>it has to build a model of the Japanese word that contains its readings and senses
>it has to

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352467
I mean. Yeah. That part is actually, like, the single part that your brain necessarily needs to do to acquire a word. The only part, actually. It's the sole part that is mandatory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352460
Note that this isn't an argument in favor of learning readings in isolation. It's just pointing out where the actual difficulty in developing literacy is.

[Anonymous No.]

if i write a book called "just fucking read japanese" will anyone tell their friends to give me money, this market seems like an easy way to make a quick buck but at least i'd be laying down some cold hard truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352478
please do it

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352456
Yes but I can't remember because I haven't used microsoft IME for so long.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352456
It's better at converting chunks of text into the right words.

[Anonymous No.]

By the way if any of your questions are unanswered and you're waiting for an answer just give yourself a fake response with a non-answer in it and I'll respond to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352500
this but unironically, i'm not here to help people out, i'm here to fight

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352508
No I'm being unironic too dude. For some reason I ignore questions, but I always notice bad answers.

[Anonymous No.]

if it makes any of you feel better I've been reading for years and never fucked up 興味 or 興奮 but just the other day I saw 興奮 and both the kanji looked alien to me and I couldn't remember what it means or how it's read
then after spending 5 minutes looking up 興 on handwriting recognition tools I plugged it into jisho and slapped myself

[Anonymous No.]

Are 帰る and 返る different ways of writing the same word for different situations like 早い and 速い, or 熱い and 暑い, or are they different words?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352529
doesn't happen with RTK

[Anonymous No.]

yes it does

[Anonymous No.]

doesn't too

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352553
i did rtk and i can assure you it does

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352561
>i did rtk
Are you the only fluent person in this thread that has done RTK?

[Anonymous No.]

matt and khatz did rtk and they're fluent

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352565
no the damage has already been done, i can never learn japanese now

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352568
matt started with lazy kanji though

starting with any form of lazy kanji is actually good, it fast-forwards your brain wiring itself to recognize kanji as clumps of components instead of as scribbles

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352568
not only that but they're more fluent than anyone in these threads and they swear by its utility. really makes you think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352573
based matt, slamming down the truth on these gaijin

[Anonymous No.]

It's not that I think nobody in DJT actually knows Japanese, because I know a lot of people are really good here.

I just think the most vocal ones and the ones engaging in shitposting the hardest are absolute beginners who in their frustration with not understanding Japanese come and vent their anger in form of shitting up the thread here

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352579
Actually I know Japanese and I argue with the vocal beginners because I realized that whenever I stop posting they manage to convince lurkers and newfags that their views are normal and authoritative.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352579
it's frustrating to know nothing at the beginning but I'm not mad at any of you guys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352579
This is obvious to anyone who's spent more than a month here. Pretty much everyone on DJT who knows Japanese to a decent degree is mostly a lurker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352588
i lurked for dumps but there haven't been many dumps lately, what's a man to do

[Anonymous No.]

It's like unfathomable to me how people think they have any right to argue about anything when they're 1.5 months into RTK and have total vocabulary of 94 or something, get the fuck out of here. RTK is probably useful and I kind of wish I had done it at the start like matt later told us to, but I'm just theorizing, what the fuck makes you think you know anything when you haven't even read a single page of manga in your life

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352601
at least we're not reddit, where people who struggle to read a single volume of manga in a week are well-known regulars trusted for their understanding of japanese and the learning process

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352601
>RTK is probably useful and I kind of wish I had done it at the start like matt later told us to
then stop getting butthurt when people defend it from the ass backwards critiques it gets in these threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352604
RTK vs. no RTK is definitely a better state than Genki vs. Reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352607
Literally NONE of us know what's the best way to learn Japanese. Just do what you feel is right and if you're constantly moving forward you'll one day know Japanese. Everything but genki and cloze cards is viable in one way or another. Khatz and (at least) Matt both did stupid shit like go to classes for the first two years. Even Genki is more effective for learning Japanese than arguing about RTK and GEnki on DJT.

[Anonymous No.]

I know the best way

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352572
>lazy kanji
?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352601
>>19352604
Manga is not reading though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352641
it is and it owns

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352641
eating is reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352625
not knowing the best way doesn't mean you can't identify problems with methods
namedropping e-celebs doesn't help your argument
otherwise i fully agree with what you're getting at, at least you're learning japanese
you are learning japanese right? i'm still going to laugh at anyone who hasn't started reading, but otherwise i don't give a shit what you do as long as you don't preach it like an idiot

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352625
yeah guys, let's not be elitist here

[Anonymous No.]

i should get a third monitor and have a raspberry pi playing something japanese on it 24/7

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352678
depends on if you want to be like matt or not

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352682
khatz has something playing all the time and he's been fluent for more than 10 years

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352685
what's the difference

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352698
khatz is actually good unlike matt

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352702
same shit different age

[Anonymous No.]

Which core deck is best in anno 2018? Is it still the 2k/6k one linked on the djtguide?

[Anonymous No.]

How do I make Japanese friends?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352741
おともだちになろうよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352738
don't study, just read

[Anonymous No.]

leaving DJT for an indefinite amount of time to focus on my Japanese studies

[Anonymous No.]

If you're not doing 24/7 immersion then you can dedicate 4 hours a day to Japanese and still have plenty of spare time to post here if you want.

[Anonymous No.]

When faced with words with which you can easily infer one from the other, assuming they are both seem equally common... Do you make a card for the verb with like six senses, the adjective with two, or both?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352810
また明日

[Anonymous No.]

I read the djt guide and I still don’t understand which resources I should use to study kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352845
all of them, make a sentence card for each different usage you find. if you don't find a good sentence for some of them, try checking a monolingual dictionary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352817
>not shitposing while watching anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352949
i've been trying this for the last week and my gains have suffered dramatically
surprising no one

[Anonymous No.]

I just downloaded the kanji radicals deck. I'm using the method that consists in deconstructing kanji by radical, which can be easily done by naming each radical. Has this worked for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352957
we have at least one heated debate about kanji daily, check the archive for lots of (mis)information regarding it
please don't ever bring it up again
good luck with your studies and don't forget to read more

[Anonymous No.]

I used to watch jap TV on livestream before that site got weird years ago, where can I watch random shit these days?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352997
ニコ動

[Anonymous No.]

im a brainlet, what does it mean?

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353194
I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353194
plus extra
this is the only hard Japanese in zr have fun

[Anonymous No.]

>>19351175
Sadly, Mandarin is pretty much the real endgame of anyone who is learning Japanese. It's a more efficient language which has all the best parts of Japanese (ridiculous counters) with none of the BS cluttering it up which requires like a million syllables to express 1.5 words worth of ideas.

Plus, Mandarin grammar makes enough sense on a basic level that nearly any average English speaker can start making sense right away.

Only downside... the horrendous quality of the average "accessible" media in Mandarin. Some native material is fucking godly, but there's no equivalent to Anime/Manga or high quality video game releases in Mandarin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19352870
Welcome to DJT!

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353410
i think you are joking but i'm unsure because a couple of things you said were true

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353420
I'm not joking, sadly. I spent 7 years surrounded by Mandarin speakers and never went out of my way to learn the language, but still managed to pick up on a lot of things through sheer exposure. In the end, I wasted a perfectly good opportunity to learn it properly because I was a retard who assumed it was "impossible" to learn how to read Hanzi. Now that I'm learning Japanese, I kick myself every single day because Chinese would be a fuck ton easier than Japanese is.

Most of my Chinese/Taiwanese/Malay friends there who did speak English learned because they wanted to be able to watch English native media without dealing with retard-tier subtitles, because the main problem with Chinese subs isn't the language's fault, but the idiots who put out garbage translations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353453
what about that makes mandarin the endgame of anyone learning japanese? because it's easier? it may be that it would have been a good choice for you, but i wouldn't assume that others would feel that way. the last time i picked a language because it was easy i dropped it in 3 months and i regret wasting my time. i've have more fun sucking at japanese than i think i would with any other language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353481
Anyone who studies/learns Japanese for long enough eventually realizes that they need to learn Chinese to some degree. It's basically required if you want to truly understand the language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353538
there's a difference between some degree and actually learning mandarin, and not everyone cares about taking it that far
the rest of your post didn't seem to indicate you meant "so that they can better understand japanese" though

[Anonymous No.]

せんとうにいこうかなあとおもう

せんとういこー

[Anonymous No.]

>>19353194
this has been answered dozens of times before. learn to search.