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/jp/ - Otaku Culture


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1895436 No.1895436 [Reply] [Original]

You can't kill her you can just send her back home.

>> No.1895445
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1895445

She can be killed by a lucky Shinigami.

>> No.1895450
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1895450

>> No.1895456

Who does she workship? She has a god, doesn't she?

Celestial is actually an angel in ZUN's mind. So being an angel there must be a god that command her.

>> No.1895458

>What Celestials fear are the five appointed weakeners.**
>Death gods are just one of those flower crown witherers.**
>That is, they have the ability to wither our crowns' flowers.**
>However, as the one of the five that is the most unplesant, don't think you'll work against me!

Can anyone clarify?

>> No.1895467

>>1895445
Actually no just gets sent back home (heave)

>> No.1895472

>>1895467
Respawn? So, she is immortal?

>> No.1895479
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1895479

But she doesn't wants to go home.

>> No.1895486

>>1895458
Shinigami can make her go were the yamas are and and go past a lot of shit just to get back home basically they send her to the equivalent of the soul DNV.

But at the end of it all she just gets sent back to heaven do to her status a ascended nobility.

>> No.1895489
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1895489

>> No.1895490
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1895490

>>1895472

Not quite.

Celestial in Heaven -> Celestial goes to a mortal realm -> Celestial dies -> Celestial goes to Heaven.

Immortals don't die and will never see the higher realms.

>> No.1895493

>>1895490
She'll still go to heaven even though she's a bad celestial?

>> No.1895496

>>1895493
She will end up in heaven no mater what she dose.

>> No.1895505

>>1895496
Huh. What a spoiled little girl.

>> No.1895503

>>1895490
In short terms... thats like being immortal. Just that it takes some time and lots of paperwork to get back on the road.

>> No.1895510
File: 537 KB, 607x942, 1231566510993.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895510

>>1895503

Again, Immortals never die.

You can be rid of Tenshi for a week if the local Reaper got her this time; Kaguya's going to be harassing you in the next 40 seconds for your rude decapitation methods.

>> No.1895514

>Unlike humans who have hard daily hard lives on earth, they live in a carefree manner enjoying music, fishing and playing games.
So... Am I a Celestial!?

>> No.1895523

>>1895514
I don't think you fish.

You are not a Celestial.

>> No.1895526

>>1895510
>Again, Immortals never die.
Maybe in the original terms. In Touhou universe is quite different. You can see how Kaguya and Mokou have to reborn every spellcard they finish. I think the idea of ZUN is that they die... but not permanently.

>> No.1895528

>>1895510
Well no if you burn Kaguya i takes a day or to for her to pop back up.

>> No.1895529

>>1895490
Yes, but apparently one can simply walk into Heaven.

>> No.1895532

So, are we basing our arguments on fanon, or canon?

>> No.1895539

>>1895532
What is this "Basing" you speak of?

This is the internet, man!

>> No.1895542

>>1895532
Canon all this stuff is in the games an wiki

>> No.1895544

>>1895529
One does not simply walk into the celestial world.

>The dead, of course, can visit it, but it's also possible for living people to go there.

>This is because throwing away all desires includes freeing oneself of the desire to live, in which case one essentially becomes a living dead.

It seems more like an elite club.

>> No.1895546

>>1895532

I dunno but I'd like to have a boring imagedump instead of never-ending utter nonsensical discussion.

>> No.1895551

>>1895529
But, who is in the heaven? I doubt Tenshi is of the most person in heaven.

>> No.1895552
File: 218 KB, 500x500, 1231567065359.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895552

>>1895526

They only "die" in the sense that they are killed. HURR SHIROU

Their souls don't leave this plain and their body immediately reforms.

>> No.1895554

>>1895546
>instead of never-ending utter nonsensical discussion.
They're enjoyable as long as people don't act like morons.

>> No.1895557

>>1895546
Image dumps are something of all the days. Discussions like this never appear so often around here.

>> No.1895563

>>1895532
Where's it say that? If we're going by the actual occurrences in the games, it's instantaneous.

>> No.1895568
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1895568

Iku isn't a celestial, right?

She looks like one with those clothes.

>> No.1895569

>>1895568
Some sort of emissary, isn't she?

>> No.1895578

>>1895568
>>1895569

Oarfish Youkai.

She's the voice of the Dragons as well.

>> No.1895581

>>1895568
>Envoy of the Dragon Palace

>> No.1895587

>>1895552
Does their injuries (they don't die beacuse of them) cure at the instant too? Or they have to wait to heal like human or alien whatever they are. This thing is blowing my mind.

>> No.1895594

>>1895581
>Dragon Palace
What? ZUN leave lots of plotholes.

>> No.1895597

>>1895587
Don't know. Unless there's something set in stone regarding how their immortality works, people can freely work in making their own ideas.

>> No.1895601

>>1895594
http://www.dragonpalacesc.com/

>> No.1895604

>>1895594
That's just what it says on the Touhouwiki. Not sure if that's an accurate translation or anything.

>> No.1895611

>>1895568
Shes a fish that works for the dragon palace so she can die normally.
And not all celestial can just die and end up back in heaven all dandy Tenshi is a special case do to her circumstances shes ended up in a infinite loop out of the normal cycle of life death and reincarnation.

>> No.1895616
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1895616

>>1895587

Any change to their bodies at all is instantly reverted.

What the Hourai Elixir does is it takes Kaguya's Eternity Manipulation and puts your body in a permastasis. When you drink it, the "instant" your body is in is dragged to "eternity". Any change at all (a cut, poison, removal of any body part) is "rewound" to the paused eternal moment.

>> No.1895617

>>1895611
what is a punctuation

>> No.1895623

>>1895616
>Any change to their bodies at all is instantly reverted.
Then how do they exactly die?

>> No.1895624

>>1895601
So, Iku works at a chinese food restaurant in the humans world.

Nice.

>> No.1895638

>>1895563
Yeah that or the transfer from dead back to heaven is very fast for Tenshi.

>> No.1895639

>>1895611
>normal cycle of life death and reincarnation
Does she gets old? I mean, does she age at all?

>> No.1895646

>>1895638
I actually linked to the wrong post.

I was actually referring to
>>1895528

>> No.1895648
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1895648

>>1895623

They DON'T.

They're IMMORTAL.

Do you GET THIS?

>> No.1895657

>>1895639
Peaches of youth I'm betting

>> No.1895658

>>1895616
>When you drink it, the "instant" your body is in is dragged to "eternity". Any change at all (a cut, poison, removal of any body part) is "rewound" to the paused eternal moment.

I'm not sure about that.

>the elixir causes the soul itself to become immortal.

Going by this, the SOUL becomes immortal, and not the actual body. In that case, then perhaps injuries that were on the body during the consumption of the Hourai Elixir are actually healed upon drinking it.

>> No.1895661

>>1895616
Ah yeah I forgot that Kaguya ability was used to create the Hourai Elixir. If I had a chance to drink the Hourai Elixir I'll do it... but I'll fucking repent later on.

>> No.1895665
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1895665

>>1895587

the difference between an immortal and a mortal is that the physical body of an immortal is not the true one. A mortal heals wounds, but not extreme ones. Since immortals don't have that weakness they heal their whole body just how mortals heal their wounds. Although a immortal's body can sustain enough injury to die, the body itself would replenish like dead skin cells elsewhere, wherever the soul is. Nothing is truelly immortal, unless it exists past such boundaries because of a pact with the universe. An example of this is a Yama. At her/his seat the Yama is completely invincible. Unlike all other immortals, if the soul is destroyed it would not simply stop existing. Other Immortals such as Youkai can die by the destruction of their soul. One way to destroy it is with a extremely overkill attack on the physical body itself, in which the shock of the death of the body would send a wave and shatter the soul, but this is hard to do. Another requires a very strong spell to destroy it, although not any posses the skill for such a spell. The easiest way to stop the body from re-forming is to create a seal over the soul, although even this takes great skill, based on the strength of the immortal's soul.

>> No.1895669
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1895669

>>1895658

Well, it's explicit that Kaguya's power works via instants and eternities.
It makes sense, no?
Cough cough actually it's just a theory that I've developed over a lot of discussion on /jp/.

>> No.1895681

>>1895648
>Now, Mokou and Kaguya kill each other on a daily basis.
>Mokou still detests Kaguya, and Kaguya still tries to kill her, but neither of them can die forever.
If you're going to say other people's interpretations are wrong, you'd better mention that your own interpretation doesn't follow canon exactly either.

>> No.1895680

I'm guessing that Tenshi is very strong, since she actually child play with all the Touhou at start. Then, she just beat the crap out of them without effort at the end of SWR.

>> No.1895686

>>1895616
well shouldn't that mean they can't learn new things too, since there minds should also be reverting to when they first drunk the hourai elixer?

also what the FUCK is up with that hourai elixir?
it makes people immortal, but it was made by a god or something, and then it got stolen.
so what does eiren have to do with it?

>> No.1895688
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1895688

>>1895665

Kaguya and Mokou's souls are invincible, though. That's another explicit effect of the Hourai Elixir.
You can't "seal" them. Souls can only be sealed when they're weakened (bodiless) and that's just plain impossible for Hourai beings.

>> No.1895694
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1895694

>>1895681

AGAIN, they only "die" in the sense that they are KILLED and their BODY STOPS MOVING FOR A BIT.

Their souls are NOT taken by a Reaper, they do NOT go across the Sanzu, they do NOT get a Judgment.

>> No.1895695

>>1895665
>send a wave and shatter the soul, but this is hard to do.
Can Youkai do this? or Only Gods with their true power (not danmaku since they are just playing around with patterns there) can be enough to destroy a soul?

>The easiest way to stop the body from re-forming is to create a seal over the soul
Something like Reimu those with evil spirits?

>> No.1895705

>>1895694
>AGAIN, they only "die" in the sense that they are KILLED and their BODY STOPS MOVING FOR A BIT.
Well, in the context of the conversation, we're obviously referring to the physical destruction of the body.

You even said,
>Any change to their bodies at all is instantly reverted.

>> No.1895717

>>1895686
I think it is the body the once that gets this changes. The mind don't. If that happen that would mean that they will forget everything they do the next second. Since they are looping that moment of their existance for all eternity....

Maybe their feeling are the onces getting this. That why Mokou can't forgive Kaguya.

>> No.1895720
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1895720

>>1895705

Did you not play Imperishable Night?

Mokou freakin' explodes after every spell card. (At the very least, incapacitating damage, as it's enough to make essentially everyone stop fighting.)
It's pretty instantaneous recovery.

>> No.1895725

>>1895717
If the mind isn't frozen in time, then won't they both eventually go insane and forget who they were?

>> No.1895726

>>1895686

The soul can remember things independent of the body.

>> No.1895727

>>1895717
Going by CiLR, she's actually learned to see Kaguya's presence in a positive way.

Of course, you can pretty much trash that idea if you want.

>> No.1895728

>>1895720
>Mokou freakin' explodes after every spell card.
Precisely. SHE DIES. That is what we were arguing about.

>> No.1895734
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1895734

>>1895728

SHE ONLY "DIES"
IN THE SENSE THAT SHE IS KILLED
FOR FUCKS SAKE SHE NEVER EVEN MEETS A DEATH GOD
How many times do I have to say this? She dies for an INSTANT, and then it's reverted.

>> No.1895737

>>1895728
dies? nah, she was killed

>> No.1895740

>>1895726
what that doesn't even make sense

fucking magic.
fuck magic, seriously, fuck that shit.
infact

FUCK TOUHOU THIS SHITS HORRIBLE, DELETING ALL MY IMAGES AND GAMES

>> No.1895743
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1895743

>> No.1895744

>>1895740
arguing how magic doesnt make sense in a fantasy world with youkai and flying shrine maidens?

>> No.1895746

Ok the thing is that they die. For a second. Then the Hourai Elixir reborns them.

Actually I think they control where to reborn and when.

>> No.1895751

>>1895740
Enjoy your VN's lol.

>> No.1895754
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1895754

>>1895688

you can't say the souls are completely "invincible". since nothing is unbreakable, there has to be something left over to cause a reform of it (the soul). some type of magical essence, magical pixie dust, whatever, just like even the simplest computer virus cannot exist without code. The graph of power (strength) is a single-line Tan graph with an asymptote. No matter how strong you are, there is always a certain amount of damage that will cause the destruction of something/someone. Whether you can be brought back via some other way has to many factors to consider.

>> No.1895758

>>1895746

I highly doubt that.

Otherwise they have EASY ACCESS TELEPORTATION via LOL SUICIDE.

>> No.1895772

>>1895758
I would just have to buy a gun instead of a car!

>> No.1895774

>>1895734
Are you daft or something? I understand what you're getting at. Dying for an instant means that "she dies in the sense that she was physically killed". That's what's ZUN is basically saying with

>Mokou still detests Kaguya, and Kaguya still tries to kill her, but neither of them can die forever.

But just because the soul hasn't been judged doesn't mean that the body has been killed in a PHYSICAL SENSE.

So back at >>1895623, if all the healing was instantaneous, as you clearly stated in >>1895616

>Any change to their bodies at all is instantly reverted.

Then they could not die in a physical sense, which is exactly the stance that you're taking right now.

And before you try to say some trash like, "I MEANT INSTANTANEOUS RECOVERY AFTER DEATH" the post that you liked to in your post said,

>> No.1895778
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1895778

>>1895754

That's not how it works, though.

Hourai makes the soul undamageable.

The soul doesn't reform at all; the soul never even takes damage.

It's
magic
get
used
to
it

>> No.1895786

Faggots, you guys either need to make it clear in some way that you're using your own ideas, or you need to mention the source of your "canonical" statements. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH MAKING UP YOUR OWN TRASH FOR THE TOUHOU UNIVERSE, BUT DON'T TRY PASSING IT OFF AS SOME SORT OF CANON.

>> No.1895787

>>1895778
This.

The power of Eternity is a powerful thing.

>> No.1895790

>>1895778

impossible. Magic is something. You can't just shrug it off as something non understandable. whatever it is that is causing the soul to regenerate can also be stopped. Even if the goddamn universe has to stop existing for it to be destroyed it still counts as destroyed.

>> No.1895800

>>1895774

A decapitation is going to "kill" you in that it will knock out your senses no matter how quickly you recover.

They recover all damage.
Physical death has to be brought on fast and furious.

>which is what you're basically doing in the games, unless you take the health bars to represent something else.

Actually, the spell card system is them dodging and taking a sudden hit. The entire game is reversed on the other side of the Danmaku field, where YOUR character is the giant boss weaving massive waves of Danmaku and the enemy is the little weaver who grazes.
Death is getting hit, which happens at the end of the spell card.

>> No.1895805

>>1895695Can Youkai do this? or Only Gods with their true power (not danmaku since they are just playing around with patterns there) can be enough to destroy a soul?

Well now, you know Tenshi's sword?
Well in the hand of a Celestial of noble blood like her she can see the weaknesses of the physical body and the soul as red dots(I'm assuming they are red since the fog is red).

Now in of itself this is nothing big but the sword has two more abilities one is to understand these weaknesses and what is what (body or soul) the second is to be able to exploit these weaknesses to perfectly.

Basically depending on what dot she stabs or cuts she can one hit kill you weaken you or shatter your soul.

But I don't know if shed she dots of the weaknesses of the soul on Mokou and Kaguya.

>> No.1895816

>>1895800
That actually makes sense, but that would mean that Reimu, Marisa and the other playable characters die too.

>> No.1895819

>>1895800
>Actually, the spell card system is them dodging and taking a sudden hit. The entire game is reversed on the other side of the Danmaku field, where YOUR character is the giant boss weaving massive waves of Danmaku and the enemy is the little weaver who grazes.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around this, but I never really thought of it that way.

>> No.1895826
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1895826

>>1895790

>whatever it is that is causing the soul to regenerate can also be stopped.

Wait, no it can't.

What causes the regeneration is ETERNITY ITSELF.

You have to kill TIME.

>Even if the goddamn universe has to stop existing for it to be destroyed it still counts as destroyed.

No, you have to kill THE CONCEPT OF MOTION.

Oh, and here's a nasty little breaker: even if everything in the universe is destroyed, Kaguya and Mokou will still be there, and time will still move (time is a measurement of motion, so as long as a single particle moves, time exists, therefore eternity exists), so they'll still be immortal.

>> No.1895829

Doesn't Yuyuko say in IN that her powers won't work on Kaguya? Thus meaning that even the power to invoke instant death does not even work.

>> No.1895832

>>1895816

They do. What do you think lives are, anyway?

>> No.1895836

>>1895829
>>1895800
Oh Jesus, what the hell.

I think I'll just make up my own ideas.

>> No.1895841

Touhous don't die. /thread

>> No.1895843

>>1895829
Well, starting off, Kaguya isn't human. So she couldn't do anything on Kaguya even if she wasn't inmmortal.

>> No.1895844
File: 158 KB, 522x434, 1231570533426.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895844

>>1895836

'k.

>> No.1895846

>>1895826
This is about as best of an explanation as I would be able to make.

>> No.1895850

>>1895832
So, in canon they actually see how much they score and they have and also eat star-shaped things to gain extra lifes?

>> No.1895860

>>1895841
shinki?

>> No.1895862

>>1895832
>>1895850
Lives are just a game mechanic. Why would you think that would be part of the story?

>> No.1895865

>>1895850

Yus.

>> No.1895866

>>1895805
Dose that apply just to living things or are inanimate object included?

>> No.1895872

>>1895862
Because we are saying that Mokou and Kaguya actually die and reborn when playing. That would mean that Reimu and Marisa die too when they are hit by danmaku which will make no sense if you bring up the lifes system.

>> No.1895873

>>1895866
Don't know. Do you want it to apply to both?

>> No.1895889

The danmaku is harmless. Which means that Kaguya and Mokou can't die becuase of a danmaku fight. Which means that the whole POOF I DIED and IM BACK are just a trick or something.

>> No.1895902
File: 560 KB, 1600x1200, 1231571063708.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895902

>>1895889

GASP

>> No.1895899

>>1895873
I already go to college

>> No.1895908

>>1895872
Well for one, I think it depends on if the people fighting are using the Spell Card system designed by Reimu/Yukari/whoeverthefuck. Since it was designed to allow youkai to fight the Shrine Maiden and killing her without the barrier(s) fucking up and losing Gensokyou, then no one would actually die from fighting.

I think I remember a few characters that didn't actually use the spellcard system. I'm pretty sure Mokou was one of them as she would actually die after every spell and regenerate.

I just think the lives system is just a game mechanic that will allow you to keep playing if you fuck up.

>> No.1895909

>>1895866does

I'm typing to fast

>> No.1895910

>>1895889
Oh hell. We forgot one of the most basic rules of Spell Cards.

So then. How are we supposed to see this? Any way we want?

>> No.1895920

>>1895910
I guess.

>> No.1895930

Well, for all purposes, Mokou's lines were relatively lighthearted in mood considering the fact that she was in pain and not dead.

I guess we just pick and choose whatever we want to believe in when it comes to the Touhouverse, huh?

>> No.1895941
File: 702 KB, 650x920, 1231571424989.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895941

>>1895930

My Gensokyo and Your Gensokyo do not have to be the same thing.

>> No.1895944

>>1895930
She is in pain like all other that lose a danmaku fight. It takes a lot of energy.

>> No.1895968
File: 25.00 MB, 1135x1966, 1231571668411.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1895968

>>1895930
Whenever we get into a shitstorm about Gensokyo on /jp/, I always feel nice and fuzzy when I look at this.

>> No.1895989

>>1895968
Oh u anon.

Double intention in that image.

>> No.1895995

>>1895889
Or they're not actual that good at Danmaku and actually push themselves to death each time.

I mean, the only people they've fought in any time is each other and they both don't really care about getting hit with a deadly attack since they just get back up. It makes sense that they're actually really pathetic fighters that just don't care about abusing their bodies to keep up with the more experienced Touhous.

>> No.1896017

>>1895995
see
>>1895968

Let's go play some IN. I'll invite you a beer.

>> No.1896022

I RESPECT ALL OF YOUR INDIVIDUAL VISIONS OF GENSOKYO.

>> No.1896027
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1896027

>>1895968
This is my Gensokyo.

>> No.1896029

>>1896022
HERE.

>>1896027
EXCEPT YOURS. I DO NOT RESPECT YOUR VISION OF GENSOKYO AT ALL.

>> No.1896044

>>1896029
You want to be that little girl, aren't you Anon in denial?

>> No.1896046

You know, if it's magic

Couldn't you just use some magic canceling artifact to prevent them from reviving?

>> No.1896047

>>1896029EXCEPT YOURS. I DO NOT RESPECT YOUR VISION OF GENSOKYO AT ALL.

I TO DO NOT RESPECT IT

>> No.1896055

>>1896046
That would need even more magics. Which I dont want to discuss right now.

>> No.1896051

>>1895968
SWEET SWEET BLACK TEWI HIPS

>> No.1896061

>>1896027
sauce plx

>> No.1896072

>>1896046

For Tenshi, you would need some pretty heavy curses.

For Kaguya and Mokou, nope. You're facing the full infinite brunt of Eternity.

>> No.1896085
File: 222 KB, 950x1356, 1231573011390.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1896085

>>1896027
This is MY Gensokyo.

>> No.1896086

I love you, /jp/

>> No.1896090
File: 370 KB, 600x800, 1231573083055.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1896090

My Gensokyo is the pantsless Gensokyo.

>> No.1896092

>>1896061
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/70523/4ada5b1010/

>> No.1896094

My Gensokyo is the realm where women are tsundere for The Eyeless Long-Haired Guy, aka me.

>> No.1896101

>>1896094
Are you a pirate?

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