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17839837 No.17839837 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.

Previous thread: >>17824728

>> No.17839840
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>> No.17840018

I hate this bitch.

>> No.17840057

go easy, her right leg is clearly broken

>> No.17840059 [DELETED] 
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>> No.17840060

when i started i told myself that getting to the point where i can read children books would be a worthwhile step, now without kanji i find them confusing as fuck

>> No.17840086
File: 175 KB, 360x450, 1501389398372.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.17840239

What is the anime equivalent of よつばと?
In other words, what's the easiest anime to attempt to watch without subs?

>> No.17840251


>> No.17840326


let's all take it ez

>> No.17840352


>> No.17840354
File: 737 KB, 1080x1080, 1493964944985.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What do you all put on the back of your cards?

Full J-E definition?
Full J-J definition?
Partial J-E definition? (if so, how do you choose which definitions to include and exclude?)
Partial J-J definition? (same question as above)

If you use J-J definitions, what do you do when one has a word you don't know?

>> No.17840370
File: 76 KB, 600x756, 1490664004434.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Fucking reps man. At least the system works but it sure takes its toll.

>> No.17840375

>Partial J-E definition? (if so, how do you choose which definitions to include and exclude?)
I have this only. I exclude the ones based on heavy synonym use, rare use.
The first priority being how it was used when I mined it.

>> No.17840459


>> No.17840490



>> No.17840500




>> No.17840505

I found reading without Kanji to be really difficult for awhile, like anything with Japanese it gets easier with time as you learn more.

>> No.17840511

sit cross-legged

>> No.17840532



>> No.17840583

can someone spoonfeed text hookers to me, i downloaded one but it didn't work with はなひら and having to listen to the words i don't recognize and type the word into browser based on that is painful

>> No.17840632

Which one did you download? ITH works fine with hanahira.

>> No.17840657


>> No.17840667

Basically what anon says. I've been watching Pocket Monsters raws since Sun & Moon began and I understand like 98%.

>> No.17840683


>> No.17840705

ネ申 ほ ど ク ソ ネ タ

>> No.17840734

I figure the remaining 2% are Japanese Pokemon names?

>> No.17840741


>> No.17840753



>> No.17840754
File: 101 KB, 1280x720, SM14-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Sometimes yeah. There are some words which I don't know sometimes but it's stuff one can make out from context. Also, Sun & Moon anime is really good, most fun Pokemon has been in many many years.


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>> No.17840871
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>> No.17841037
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>> No.17841066
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post some cool 四字熟語


>> No.17841070


>> No.17841080


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>> No.17841128


>> No.17841135


>> No.17841141
File: 419 KB, 856x812, 1488637441318.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Story of my life.

>> No.17841153

I use Jap definition or the english one depending on wich one is more accuarate. For a word like oxygen the english translation would be best but for a word wich presents a more complex meaning the jap definition is usually the best while the english one tends to just use wichever word is the closest in english causing one to miss the nuance.

>> No.17841156


The rikai audio for it sounds fucking sick

>> No.17841159

こういう えがら だし
もんくを いうなら どうがレベルより げんがレベルの はなし だよ

>> No.17841167
File: 494 KB, 1516x1422, 1509449047112.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


what the fuck man

>> No.17841172


>> No.17841186
File: 757 KB, 1263x645, What.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The hell is happening here?
Ena says "It's not dad" but she actually means that it is him?

>> No.17841188

Is it normal to have trouble following Japanese news? Shit is so difficult, so much political/technical terms and stuff that just goes over my head and sounds like gibberish.
I guess that's a real sign of fluency, if you can follow the news.

>> No.17841190

First day of Japanese?

>> No.17841200

What's the best way to do custom study sessions in anki?

>> No.17841218

wouldn't be on this thread if it wasn't

>> No.17841251

> Ena says "It's not dad" but she actually means that it is him?
The other woman/girl says that she sometimes forgets that it's not him.

>> No.17841306
File: 9 KB, 415x153, 参ったな.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.17841331

Encountered this accidentally yesterday. Wonder what he means by "translators"...

>> No.17841389


"However it is..."
"Even if that is the way it is..."


>> No.17841410

You should have looked those two up because you're not even remotely close.
>"Even if that is the way it is..."
I hope you don't also read それにしても as "even if you do that."

>> No.17841439
File: 3.34 MB, 1920x1080, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That だか seems to be working just like とか here, right? Since she's not 100% sure who scolded her
多分 No matter what I do, it's hopeless

>> No.17841463

5 years in and "learning" Japanese is super boring. It was honestly more fun doing Anki and reading slowly. Now it's just boring. I assume most people won't believe me, but you'll probably come out the other side not even interested in the reason why you started. Oh well, maybe in a few years you'll realize. Maybe I'll start Chinese, because the learning part is actually the best part. After that I might as well be reading English, it's the same experience.

>> No.17841490

>implying I wouldn't start learning another language/other skill when I'm done

Of course it's boring when the challenge isn't there anymore, doesn't mean that you didn't enjoy your time, does it?

>> No.17841511
File: 1.01 MB, 1084x1600, 絶対☆霊域_1_033.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Well here's the line of thinking that led me to my translation

やっぱり -- "either way; nonetheless"
なんと -- "how; by what means"
して -- する
も -- converse conditional

Combining to "either way how it is done (the following clause will occur)" which I took to mean something like "However it is..."

Context will probably help; second panel from the top, left

>> No.17841515

but, it's him
he's the dad

>> No.17841519

Why does コーヒー have kanji?

>> No.17841531


>> No.17841534

So you can be sophisticated and read it カハイ.

>> No.17841547

Because kanji are cool.

>> No.17841566

I love kanji

>> No.17841571
File: 266 B, 43x11, 1507605843246.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I think it's time to change my font

>> No.17841624

I'm starting to love it. Went back to basics and started memorizing the radicals rather than mining from twitter which I still do but it's less of a focus. It makes things much clearer than mnemonics to me. I don't have to memorize some silly phrase like the crow flies at midnight (not actual) or the hand takes someone's ear (actual). I just put the radicals together like legos when anki droning and it sticks. It works. /blog.

>> No.17841648

Yeah but most people are reading with the delusion that they want to "watch a lot of anime" or something. They probably won't ever do that, my guess is they'll end up watching less in the end after they're past the point of "I need to force myself to keep learning".

>> No.17841662
File: 406 KB, 483x6179, 20171101漢字.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I love them as well.

>> No.17841678

>After that I might as well be reading English, it's the same experience.
You're implying the material I want to read is available in English. Not to mention a shitload of nuances getting lost in translation.
>watch a lot of anime
There are more things than anime out there, anon. I'm learning Japanese to read unadapted and untranslated manga, as well as light novels and visual novels, where the translation pace is as slow as it gets.
>They probably won't ever do that
I'm already doing that.

>> No.17841774

Sorry for the dumb newfag question but how do you generate these charts?

>> No.17841784

Kanji grid addon.

>> No.17841848
File: 93 KB, 1366x768, hirakana_wallpaper_1366x768.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It took me a month to memorize like 70% of hiragana. I didn't even start katakana yet.
I'm pretty stupid, I'm not going to deny that, and it's making me want to give up when others learn faster than me. It doesn't help when I'm busy with work and can only study an hour or two a day.

>> No.17841849
File: 1.37 MB, 1024x768, Rance01_2017-11-01_19-30-40.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>When your IME is fucked

>> No.17841876

still stuck on msime eh?

I thought the point of mnemonics was to associate the character with whatever the fuck it kinda reminded you of, not memorize someone elses shit.

>> No.17841878
File: 720 KB, 2560x3470, gojyuuon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Remove romaji, memorize the 五十音 order, print it, hang it above your desk. You can use pic related if you want. Read shit with furigana, like some shounen manga or song lyrics or whatever. Whenever you see something you don't know, refer to the poster and count the columns/rows to figure out the consonant and the vowel. After that you'll start to visualize where every character is on the chart and how different rows and columns correlate (for example, き is surely the か column, い row, therefore I know the reading).

It's probably one of the easier ways instead of just flashing them and/or writing them in your notebook for the next week Try it.

And remember - don't let others' success be the reason of your failure. Fight on and don't give up.

>> No.17841885

I'm still beginning kanji. Kodansha's method is pretty retarded so it wasn't for me. I'm currently trying the reading method with Japanese manga I import and mine the kanji from that. Mnemonics just doesn't make sense to me even if I make them up myself. Memorizing the radicals and mapping out where the placement is more structured and makes more sense to me.

>> No.17841887

>Probably Chinese Kanji


>> No.17841889

Oh, and if you want some reading practice with katakana, you could either read some prewar Japanese documents like the constitution, or just use this https://c.lewd.se/LQi6Fi.html
I believe it is self-explanatory. I made it for a different anon a couple of months before, you might want to use it as well.

>> No.17841897

Thanks. That might help.

One more thing. I can read some things but I can't understand them. I still haven't really jumped into what words mean and just focused on kana. Should I still do it?

>> No.17841901

Those are just the ones not in the Kanken set, I believe right now I have some kokuji in there, so there should be more emphasis on "probably". It's usually traditional forms (with compatibility ideographs in black frames, they're usually different like one stroke or so), the rest are the ones I encountered while reading.
I might change the name to "Other" instead of "Probably Chinese".

>> No.17841909

Yeah, it's just for practice, so you don't really important to understand it. That comes after you at least know the phonetic alphabet. It's also good for you, you might get used to and memorize some patterns that will come up later.

>> No.17841912

>so you don't really important to understand it
what the hell am I doing
*so it's not really important to understand it

>> No.17841921

>that pic
For what reason anon.
Learning kanji barely helps with anything.

>> No.17841928

just let me be autistic

>> No.17841950

Thats perfectly understandable. I ended up learning them through brute force since nothing else worked.

>> No.17841964

Does this mean something like "I would have said that too"? I can't figure out what てか is supposed to be.

>> No.17841965

can anyone give me a japanese version of はなひら? Please

>> No.17841967

I was told that too.

>> No.17841976

Why is there like a shitload weird abbreviations of that

>> No.17841979

I see. Thank you.

>> No.17841982

Why not?

>> No.17841984

Why not?

>> No.17841989

what is this plugin? please spoonfeed me

>> No.17841990

何としても is a set phrase.

>> No.17841994

It's pretty much the only thing that I've tried that works. Maybe brute force makes me inefficient but I'd rather know and retain the characters and meanings than remembering 取る as the hand takes the ear everytime I see it. It interrupts my thought process and is sometimes confusing to remember. Am I supposed to remember ear, take, or hand? With radical study I know that it's the ear radical left of the right hand radical and that equals take. Anyways I've rambled on enough about how I study. Just felt like I'd share how I'm getting a sense of satisfaction from learning, recognizing, and loving kanji. It's very rewarding and keeps me coming back to study day after day.

>> No.17841995

It was more of a rhetorical question. I actually see a reason, as it is used really often.

>> No.17842070

The mnemonics are only a shortcut to the meaning; in the KKLC preamble he tells you to go ahead and discard them once the shape is familiar enough to you that you look at it and think "take".

The mneumonic approach is particularly helpful in distinguishing characters which principally have the same radicals, varying only by a stroke, or as the ancient Chinese were sometimes cruel enough to do, by the length of a stroke. I imagine the following set would be quite devilish without silly stories to go alongside.

That said, by all means don't use them if you don't need them, as the end result is to throw them away regardless.

>> No.17842667
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How to transition to J-J dictionaries?

I can understand the definitions at the point I'm at now, but every definition usually has at least one word that I don't know which I then have to look up, and in the definition for that word there will be more words I don't know, and so on and so forth.

But in using J-J definitions a few times, I've come to realise how deficient J-E "definitions" really are and don't really want to use them anymore if I can avoid it.

>> No.17842778
File: 284 KB, 650x581, 1471441459956.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17842804

looks like a contraction

>> No.17842830


Sometimes these intractable problems are most easily solved by giving yourself an artificial limit to how many entries you crawl through for each word you originally look up. So just decide you are only going to go 5 (or whatever you feel is right) entries deep in the rabbit whole, for everything else, just texthook or J-E.

>> No.17842832


rabbit hole*...

>> No.17842837


>> No.17842894

I think it's like a surprised-annoyed-sarcastic-incredulous rhetorical question (but maybe even calling it a question is misleading).

I just started reading this chapter too. 頑張って

>> No.17842927

You don't have to recognize the synonyms they sometimes give at the end, but you should understand the main definition (usually the first sentence).

Keep building your vocab. If you don't understand dictionary entries, your vocab is still very deficient. Dictionaries purposely use a limited range of words even to describe difficult concepts.

>> No.17842976

>If you don't understand dictionary entries, your vocab is still very deficient. Dictionaries purposely use a limited range of words even to describe difficult concepts.
I guess this is the price of not using Anki.

Maybe I ought to start.

>> No.17843028

Also, here's some stuff I figured out after months of using goo辞書.

- Entries with example sentences tend to be the most common usage.
- Sometimes you will get multiple entries for a word search, e.g. a 訓読 and an 音読 that have nearly identical definitions. Go with the entry with modern example sentences.
- If the example sentence looks really strange, it's probably from something old/archaic, so you can ignore it.
- If you see 特に、多く、or 転じて, you can treat whatever follows as the actual definition 90% of the time.
- Some entries will have a footnote survey which basically says that close to 50% or even the majority of natives don't know what it means/will use it wrong e.g.流れに棹さす、敷居が高い
- Pay strict attention to footnotes which say 誤り、読まない, which usually describe a common reading pitfall
- (*alternative form*とも書く) is often the preferred way of writing it
- A triangle next to the kanji means it's a non-standard reading, a cross means it's an uncommon kanji, an equals or dash means the kanji and reading are inseparable e.g. 今日(きょう)武士(もののふ). Be wary of triangle readings, a lot of them are not common or worth learning.

Some of it might be wrong (especially the kanji symbols, I still don't know what they entirely mean), so please correct me.

>> No.17843069

Thanks for the tips. I use EPWING dictionaries (広辞苑 and 大辞林) mostly when I try J-J look-ups, but I imagine a lot of this carries over to those too.

>> No.17843077

We should have a wiki for arbitrary useful knowledge like this. Something like the guide FAQ, but arbitrarily editable.

>> No.17843085

How am I supposed to use the EPWING dictionaries from the CoC? All I see are a bunch of 7-zip files stuffed with generic files

>> No.17843151

How hard is the Kimi no na Wa book?

>> No.17843173

You can use them with Rikaisama and Yomichan (although they don't really suit the format of those add-ons imo). Read their websites for instructions.

The best way to use them is with an EPWING reader like Qolibri.

>> No.17843216



scroll down and press 試し読み, you may have to disable adblock for it to work.

>> No.17843364

>all these kanji that are written the exactly same way, mean the same thing, but are read differently even when placed the same way
literally fucking why

>> No.17843369

Kanji aren't words.

>> No.17843376

But why would you use the same kanji for 2 words written exactly the same?
How is that not a huge fuck you in the reading department.

>> No.17843385

Maybe if you ask for help instead of complaining about vague things that could mean literally anything depending on how you were taught Japanese, you might get a real answer.

>> No.17843389

空く and 空く

>> No.17843392 [DELETED] 

How'd that happen?

>> No.17843399

How'd that happen?

>> No.17843418

they mean virtually the same thing, the differences are in nuance and which subjects prefer one or the other
unless you have a reason to know that a particular instance of 空く is あく, you can just assume it's すく

>> No.17843427

That's what I meant though, and I've seen a bunch similar to this.
Where 'usually' it'll be read 1 way, but based on basically nothing it'll be read another way. And you just have to make sense of it out of nothing.
Which is really annoying, hence the complaint.

>> No.17843480

well it's not designed for you, it's designed for native speakers
and they know what words are normal in what contexts
example: two initial-stress derived nouns, REcord and CONflict, and their verbal counterparts, reCORD and conFLICT
when you read "I'm going to set it to record" and "I'm going to set it to conflict", you would easily read "I'm going to set it to reCORD" and "I'm going to set it to CONflict". it would be very unnatural to use the noun for the former or the verb for the latter.
this is the "native speaker intuition" that writing systems use to avoid the need to write prosody and accent into every syllable of every word, and if you go that far, why not write synonyms with identical morphology the same way, as well? as long as they're used in mutually exclusive places.
it's not until you start actually understanding japanese on more than a trivial level that you'll be able to understand anything you read with a reliable accuracy, anyway, so you shouldn't even care. you just have to make sure that text without furigana isn't your only exposure to the language, or you're going to have a stunted ability to acquire the supralinguistic and suprasegmental properties of the language (like prosody, which synonyms are common in which phrases, etc)

>> No.17843523

No anon, this is stupid and looking for excuses for why there's such a retarded way of writing a language.
When reading you should have a reasonable ability to read each word without knowing the full sentence beforehand.
Record doesn't suddenly read conflict of certain conditions are met. It might mean something difference based on context, but the reading is the same.

Just because you "can" sort of make jumps of logic as a native speaker to make it work, doesn't mean the way of doing it works, as it falls to the person to be able to sort it out.

>> No.17843531

please tell me where i made excuses for the language being written in a dumb way, because i'm pretty sure i didn't

>When reading you should have a reasonable ability to read each word without knowing the full sentence beforehand.
you can't do this in any language
you don't suddenly understand the way each word is stressed and how they link together just as you go from word to word, you need several phrases of context on both sides to be able to do so

>Record doesn't suddenly read conflict of certain conditions are met.
please actual read that section of my post until you understand what it's saying

>but the reading is the same.
REcord and reCORD are completely different "readings" with completely different "meanings"

>> No.17843544

How long can I expect it to take to learn Japanese? Perhaps not full fluency but the ability to understand people.

>> No.17843581

How the fuck do I stop forgetting mature cards in anki? I have ~75% overall retention but mature card rentention is ~50%.

>> No.17843591


Does this mean something like "If I confess my breast obsession"? What function does に serve here?

>> No.17843609

>REcord and reCORD are completely different "readings" with completely different "meanings"
For reference to non-native readers of English who don't do enough listening: the vowels are completely different depending on the stress.

>> No.17843647

95% of it is common sense shit, with the remaining 5% a matter of spending ten seconds in Google to find out what symbols and abbreviations mean, if they aren't already painfully obvious.
Most anons are just simply thick as mud who won't learn Japanese in the first place.

>> No.17843649

New knowledge appears all the time and takes like six months to a year to be easy to find via google.

>> No.17843656

Not in respect to dictionaries. Face it: you're just dumb as shit and don't know the basics of using a search engine. Most of the problems in these threads, be it technical or language related are more issues of anons being either straight up lazy or too fucking stupid to search for something on Google without drooling all over their keyboards.

Look up what autodidact means. This thread is supposed to full of them.

>> No.17843657

Who do you think you're responding to?

>> No.17843674

That's why polyglots exist, and why so many Japanese learners pick up Chinese (and sometimes Korean). It's harder to stay entertained when you're not constantly seeing big differences in your ability to consume native material. If you want to go further, you have to MAKE it enjoyable yourself, which isn't easy.
Identify the hardest ones and figure out why. Consider googling mnemonics or visual cues to help you with those few, which you will forget after a couple months by the time you no longer have difficulty. Anything to help you recall in the moment without having to look at a chart. The most important thing you can do to improve your learning efficiency is find out EXACTLY what's holding you back sp you can attempt to address it.
It would be a shame if someone actually enjoyed what they're studying, wouldn't it.
>this is stupid
You will get a lot further if you are more interested in understanding than complaining. Every language in existence has "stupid" traits from historical usage, and the history itself usually turns out to be enlightening.

>> No.17843692

>bring over chinese characters without tones
>create a phonetic alphabet too
>never introduce spacing
>end up with a language that is relatively difficult to both read and hear due to homonyms and compound words

Well this is going to be not easy.

>> No.17843706
File: 50 KB, 231x277, Suika_Point.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Who said learning Nip would be easy?
Observing these threads makes me laugh on the inside, but also cringe at how fucked anyone is coming into this new.

>> No.17843708

I never thought it would be harder than Mandarin.

>> No.17843709

any language is not easy

>> No.17843716

The world would be a better place if everyone spoke American.

>> No.17843722

English is almost as a mess as Japanese

>> No.17843723

we would understand way less about how languages work and the divergence when different regions start speaking radically different dialects and countries establish their own spelling rules will be more violent than anything we currently have on a global scale

>> No.17843784

1 and 4 are the same and is a valid difficulty
2 is the opposite of difficulty
3 is irrelevant

>> No.17843794
File: 142 KB, 1336x1781, 1507343363503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17843801

No, I mean combining two with 1 was the mistake

Either fully phonetic or logos

>> No.17843804

It looks like a manual bitmap drawing; you have to remember that someone did their best to cram all those damn strokes into that tiny pixel grid, and personally I think they did a damn fine job with the restrictions they had. Instead, you should start using larger font sizes.

>> No.17843805

Kanji eliminate the need for spaces. Use enough kanji and the word boundaries present themselves.

>> No.17844007

From what I've been told, Mandarin is easy if you learn to study kanji/hanzi in the first place. Multiple readings are apparently relatively rare, and the grammar is simple. Don't judge language difficulty by shitty lists of how many hours of study it takes. I see many of them put CJK all in the same highest tier, presumably because even people who learn languages for a living try to tackle kanji/hanzi/hanja through rote learning, the same as native students, "write it over and over!"
I don't think fully logographic is a good fit for Japanese grammar, and I don't think fully phonetic is a good fit for the amount of homophones. Also, in the same way that long strings of kana are a pain, I imagine long strings of kanji would be unpleasant, especially when kanji will need to be re-used further for grammar. I think that adding spaces would have a noticeable but still limited improvement to either case. The alternation between kana and kanji works pretty well in general.
I don't think there's any point in complaining about kana when you're willing to learn kanji. Under a hundred extra symbols? Who gives a shit. It'd be convenient if they had some consistency between consonants and vowels, but the very limited phonetic range helps. As for kanji, google opinions on how Korean is after trying to deprecate hanja. It's a divisive topic, but my impression is that homophones are a pain and that younger natives raised without hanja have a hard time with etymology no longer being hinted by the writing.

>> No.17844013

It's also debatable where spaces should actually go. Romanization is very inconsistent about this.

>> No.17844019


>> No.17844031

What is the proper way to link two conditional statements? For example, I wanted to say "If you order too much food and you can't eat it all, then you have to pay an extra charge." I came up with "もし食べ物を食べることができるより食べ物を注文すれば別料金を払う必要です" but that's not quite what I'm looking for. I want to know how to say if X and if Y then Z.

>> No.17844039

Kanji are solution to a nonexistent problem. The lack of spaces cause no harm, it's just constant dekinai whining. I've never had any problems with it. And if space is really needed (the sentence would be ambiguous without it) - you're free too add it, it's not like it's forbidden. Look at Yotsuba&! or Pokemon games.
>Romanization is very inconsistent about this.
Romanization is for faggots, learn the fucking language instead of debating unimportant shit.

>> No.17844047

>Kanji are solution to a nonexistent problem.
They're not a solution to anything. They're just there.

Your toxic sophomoric attitude and lack of understanding the relevant background issues prove that you're just upset about your own misconceptions and want to rant and prove something unfounded right.

Fuck off until you understand at least basic Japanese.

>> No.17844048

>Kanji are solution to a nonexistent problem
How's your first month going?
>Romanization is for faggots
I responded to someone talking about spaces that no one knows where spaces should go, I fully endorse that you should learn the language proper and fuck off, learn to follow context.

>> No.17844055

>They're not a solution to anything. They're just there.
That's what I said.
>Your toxic sophomoric attitude and lack of understanding the relevant background issues prove that you're just upset about your own misconceptions and want to rant and prove something unfounded right.
Oh, wow, how am I gonna defend against that argument.
>Fuck off until you understand at least basic Japanese.
You first.
>How's your first month going?
I never advocated against them, you moron, the nonexistent problem I brought up was the "waah, no spaces". Kanji don't help. Not whining helps a lot.

>> No.17844068

>That's what I said.
You implied that they were introduced to solve something in the first place, when the reality is that they are rooted in the history of the language and removing them would have unfortunate consequences. It's easy to say "I've never had trouble with long strings of kana" when you are clearly new. You can comment on it in a year.
>the nonexistent problem I brought up was the "waah, no spaces"
Literally no complained about no spaces, it is simply an obviously related topic to long strings of kana to anyone who isn't an elitist newbie.

>> No.17844069

consider learning how to communicate before engaging with people who are arguing

>> No.17844109

>I've never had trouble with long strings of kana
I do understand you've been learning for ten years now and you've been whining about kanji when you began, but now you saw how easier the language is with them and you have to go on full reverse. And I agree! I believe it is easier to read when there are kanji in a sentence, but I also believe there is no difference between a long kana string with spaces and without them. Kanji do help, but not with the spaces problem, as there is no problem.

>> No.17844157


>> No.17844227

>I do understand you've been learning for ten years now and you've been whining about kanji when you began, but now you saw how easier the language is with them and you have to go on full reverse.
The fuck are you talking about? Consider that not everyone whines about everything that seems difficult. It's just idiotic to suggest that kanji make no difference, as the quote did.
>but I also believe there is no difference between a long kana string with spaces and without them.
I agree with this, but it doesn't make a long kana string less inferior to one with kanji. I don't know why you're so hung up on the insult that spaces were mentioned. No one complained about no spaces, it was just a couple of words exchanged. The anon I responded to could have left it at "kanji help identify word boundaries," but since they didn't, I thought I'd throw out that spaces wouldn't be a straight-forward issue anyway. It's not discussing how to make the language easier, it's a mildly interesting point about the agglutinative properties of the language itself, that what is and is not a boundary is debatable.

>> No.17844235


>> No.17844311





>> No.17844376


>> No.17844393



>> No.17844476
File: 1.04 MB, 1500x1333, 1494729005208.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>know over 2k words
>still only understand 40% of anime
This is not FAIR

>> No.17844487

2k words only gets you so far.
It also depends on what shows you watch. Chances are that something like Non Non Biyori will have much higher coverage of the vocabulary you already know than something like Psycho-Pass.
A few months ago I tried watching Fate/Zero with subtitles just to test my hearing comprehension but the vocabulary was WAY out of my league so I knew it was time to give up and come back another time.

>> No.17844493

Worst part of all is when they start talking in some low pitched accent where you can't understand shit
"BOKU WA aterughckchghk aru yo!"

>> No.17844496

>low pitched accent
I have no idea what that means. Care to cite an example?

>> No.17844499

You don't need two conditionals here, just say "if you can't eat all the food you ordered".

>> No.17844538

What anime are you watching where you can understand almost half of it with only 2k words?

>> No.17844546

I'm still trying to learn hiragana. I'm reading stuff to practice but I still have trouble distinguishing between つ and っ. And the font they use doesn't help (I'm reading stuff in danbooru and manga). Will it become easier once I start learning about what words mean and start recognizing that the word doesn't exist so it must be the other one?

For example the word やっかい. Sometimes I would read it as やつかい but since that word doesn't exist (did a quick google search) then that means やっかい is the correct way to say it.

Same thing with the others, ゃ ゅ ょ. It's sometimes hard to tell because of the font.

>> No.17844550

やつかい could appear in a text I think (やつ+かい)

>> No.17844553

This is (surprisingly) Kochi Gothic, and yes it looks really good. However this size is really hard for non-natives/beginners to read, although 9px is theoretically enough: https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/36423/is-this-8px-height-font-understandable-for-japanese-knowing-people/36432#36432

>> No.17844554

Well, shit.
I guess I'll just keep trying to recognize the kana and once I start learning what words mean then I'll try to figure something out.

>> No.17844578

To add to this:
やつかい could appear, but it's not a single word. Furthermore, やつ does have a kanji associated with it (奴) and although it's usually written with kana, you can still write it like that if you want.
And in spoken form you can clearly hear where the two words start and end. If I'm not mistaken, やっかい (厄介) is ●○○○ (high, low, low, low) while 奴かい be ●○●○ (high, low, high, low.)

>> No.17844584

like this but like x5 worse
Any slice of life anime?

>> No.17844630



>> No.17844662
File: 16 KB, 259x224, ksb50.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17844671

could someone help in finding a picture of a chart that showed how much jojyo kanji is used in newspapers, novels etc.?
I saw it on DJT but cannot navigate to it any more

>> No.17844682

The sad reality is that kansai-ben sounds way better than standard Japanese but it's hard to find any sort of breadth of material where it's spoken. Even if you listen to kansai radio stations they all just speak in standard Japanese.

>> No.17844688

If it's the image I'm thinking of, it's linked in the guide under the kanji section.

>> No.17844695

Yep, that's the gist of it. Didn't manage to find any sites with audio samples showcasin' the differences in pitch accent anywhere, the best ya can find are short 1-minute-or-less audio samples of some people talkin' into a noisy microphone where ya struggle enough as is just hearin' what they say, let alone what the patterns for the words are.
And like ya said, ain't much material where it's spoken. I only know a handful of anime that have Kansai speakers that ain't just a one-off gag or faceless character, let alone where most of the cast actually speaks it.
I'd happily pay for some kind of dictionary that has audio samples of common words, but that just doesn't seem to exist.

>> No.17844701

It's your chance to do the research. You can become a famous kansaibenologist!

>> No.17844702

can't find anything

>> No.17844703
File: 17 KB, 222x228, su.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

this shit is the dumbest thing ever

>> No.17844709

Great for listening practice

>> No.17844711

Believe me, I'd love to. This overly enthusiastic gaijin still has a long way to go though. I ain't dumb enough to think I can properly research a dialect when I can't even properly speak standard Japanese yet.
One day achievin' at least written "fluency" in the Kansai dialect is what keeps me goin', but it's a long term goal.

>> No.17844715

what's so dumb about it? if you see dumb things at kana level you'll have a very hard time to even get decent at Japanese

>> No.17844725

there's just no way to handwrite it and make it look aesthetic without writing incredibly slowly

>> No.17844727

git gud
I bet you haven't written it even 100 times

>> No.17844748

I think really the only way you can get any sort of significant exposure to it is to actually move to Japan somewhere in the Kansai region (I think a lot of gaijin live in Osaka), but then there's the question of whether or not anyone will actually speak their dialect to you or if they'll all just speak to you in standard Japanese thinking a waito piggu like yourself is too dumb to understand them otherwise.

>> No.17844761

You should try Fukushima Japanese

Because who needs tones?

>> No.17844767

Yeah, that's another thing to worry about. Some people are shy about their accents to begin with and will only speak standard Japanese to anyone who isn't from Kansai, but even people who normally speak with their dialect "on" are probably just gonna speak standard Japanese to ya.
And never mind actually getting your intonation corrected unless ya explicitly ask for it on several occasions. Say nothin' and you can bet you'll be gettin' the usual 日本語上手ですね!関西弁も完璧ですよ!

Can't say it gets me goin' the same way the Kansai dialect does. 'Sides, I like intonation. One of the main reasons I like the Kansai dialect is just because of how lively it sounds thanks to all the intonation.

>> No.17844798

you sound like a tard

>> No.17844811

I know 930 kanji
feels good and proud to have been learning it without a single day break

I shall laugh at fags who ignored RTK and started with some Genki shit and possess only 50 kanji in their heads

>> No.17844841

why does fucking every kanji have コウ for kunyomi

>> No.17844847

this is a nice video, just to listen to in the background

>> No.17845161

Those little loops in む and す are somewhat difficult. But you should practice more.

>> No.17845169

Do you even write your kanji from memory?

>> No.17845174

but I started to spend less time on writing because it's taking considerable amount of time when studying new kanji at the same time
i'm taking lazy approach to it because of computer typing and stuff, I don't see any use in knowing how to write everything I learn because I won't be in a situation where it's required
I'm learning Jap only to be able to understand media

>> No.17845187

what's your favorite kanji?

i like the kanji for ame and miko.

ame because it looks like raindrops falling onto a windows and the first kanji for miko actually has the latin letters M and I if you squint

>> No.17845193


>> No.17845213


>> No.17845234

雨 is great. I like 業 for some reason.

>> No.17845255

It's not a matter of being shy or not, it is true that most gaijins, even experienced residents, can't understand strong accented Japanese correctly.
It's bothersome for them to switch a code everytime when they talk with gaijins, in the first place, there's no dialect difference in Keigo.

>> No.17845276


That depends on the speaker now dunnit? Even native Japanese speakers can't understand a really thick local dialect if they aren't used to it. I mean just where I live there's natives with dialects so thick I struggle to understand most of what they're sayin'. It's the same deal in any language with thick dialects.
'Course I don't think I could understand really thick Kansai either, but most people don't speak in the thickest dialect ya can imagine.

>> No.17845309

All Japanese dialects are based on standard Japanese, lately, so it's hard to find real thick accent in this 21st century.
Maybe they haven't spoken in standard Japanese, they've spoken in standard-mixed Kansaiben.

>> No.17845326

Are ya the same guy I was replyin' to or? Cause if so that contradicts what ya just said.
But yeah, most modern day Japanese dialects aren't thick at all. The biggest remainder of that is the pitch accents while the vocabulary and mannerisms are only partially remaining. The only people that really still speak in thick dialects are old people or those who live way out in rural places.
I mean even a relatively mild Kansai dialect can throw ya off if ya never heard one before and it'll sound like gobbledygook to your ears, but if ya know what things change then it really ain't that difficult, especially not in written form where things have no accents.

>> No.17845328

That explanation was really good. Don't suppose you have a similar page for 開く(ひらく) and 開く(あく)?

I've read through most of Flyable Heart now and I still haven't figured out which way I'm supposed to read it in which situations.

>> No.17845346


>> No.17845366


>> No.17845493

give me a quick rundown on the usage of the ga particle. i still cannot wrap my head around it.

>> No.17845501


>> No.17845503

Maybe Japanese is not for you, my friend. Try learning Esperanto.

>> No.17845507


>> No.17845516

dont be rude or else ill give you a kiss on the cheek

>> No.17845519

i'll guess i'll just read enough shit till i can get subconsciously used to it then. worked when i was learning english. thanks!

>> No.17845632


>> No.17845642

don't have a cow, man

>> No.17845663

It's largely what you said, recognizing what the contextual possibilities are. In handwriting practice with a grid, small characters are something like 25% of the size of normal characters, but in actual handwriting it gets sloppy, and fonts are often not much better. The biggest other clue is if you're lucky enough for the line of text to have a full-size and a small-size of the same character to visually compare width (or height) to.
Move to be surrounded by native speakers of the dialect and begin creating the resource yourself, you could get a lot of interest primarily from idiots who want to speak anime and can't dedicate themselves to actually getting anywhere with it.
I wonder if natives with a Tokyo dialect have as strong as a gut reaction to seeing someone type out a dialect as most English speakers do. If the spoken dialect makes you sound like a hick, typing it makes you sound like a wannabe-hick. Which is just kind of strange.
>read enough shit till i can get subconsciously used to it
Correct. Good luck, anon.

>> No.17845682

>I wonder if natives with a Tokyo dialect have as strong as a gut reaction to seeing someone type out a dialect as most English speakers do.
What do ya mean "Tokyo dialect"? The one separate from standard Japanese? If so, I imagine it'd be the same as about any dialect. If ya mean just typing out standard Japanese then しゃあないやろ, ain't like you can speak any kind of language without typing in some kind of "dialect" if some part of the country primarily speaks in the standard dialect.
>If the spoken dialect makes you sound like a hick, typing it makes you sound like a wannabe-hick. Which is just kind of strange.
Just doin' it cause I gotta keep up looks and I feel like it. I could just as well write normally but I already go out of my way to write in the Kansai dialect in this thread so why stop there.
Unless ya weren't talkin' about my English writing, in which case I dunno where ya get that from since Kansai ain't much of a hick dialect at all. Touhoku fits that bill better if ya ask me.

>> No.17845701

I meant standard Japanese, but probably shouldn't have said Tokyo. I was talking about the English, yes, no actual offense intended but it comes off strange and made me wonder aloud. In my experience, people who speak such a dialect natively still type fairly "standard" English with exception of habits like "y'all" and occasional grammar "mistakes" (from the context of "standard" English).

>> No.17845744

Well yeah, hardly anyone will actually type like this and add apostrophes to their -ing words like I do 'cause it takes more effort than just addin' the last g and not lookin' like an idiot.
It's really all I can do to add some kinda flavor to my English here since aside from some spellin' differences (color vs. colour) or vocabulary (elevator vs. lift) there ain't much you can do to type in an dialect in English.
I know it looks weird but it ain't like typin' in the Kansai dialect is much better as far as weirdness goes. At the end of the day I'm still writin' in a dialect I ain't a native of.

>> No.17845842
File: 46 KB, 344x331, 1492903094098.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anon-kun, you cheat in your Anki reps, don't you?
You hit "hard" instead of "again" when you don't remember a card.
Be a man and admit it.

>> No.17845863

I hit again even if I get it if it took longer than a couple seconds.

>> No.17845889

I actually do but on very few. Mainly because I have the answer on my tongue but can't get it out. I usually get it on the tries after.

>> No.17845895

I can't cheat at Anki since I don't use it.

>> No.17845920

Only when I'm doing reps when tired and can't remember things I usually can

>> No.17845945


>> No.17845949


>> No.17846013

Is there any kind of audio lessons I can listen to while traveling? I'm not talking about listening practice, but actual lessons

>> No.17846024

There are learn-japanese-type websites, some allow you to download lessons after the free registration.

>> No.17846029
File: 1011 KB, 935x717, 1500245232680.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why does EDICT have separate definitions for certain conjugations of certain words?

e.g. 打つ and 打たれる

What's the point? The conjugated form here means exactly what you would expect it to mean. Why does it need its own definition?

>> No.17846035

prolly because 打つ is only related to 打たれる in only one of its usages

>> No.17846167

You are fucking retarded, す is literally the embodiment of perfection.

>> No.17846174

Unlike you, I am not retarded.

>> No.17846176
File: 81 KB, 600x631, 1508087202087.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm lonely - does DJT have a discord?

>> No.17846193

Ask /int/

>> No.17846194

It's not /djt/ but this is an active nip learning server: https://discord.gg/65rJ4S

>> No.17846204
File: 19 KB, 252x224, 1500161157555.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So I wanted to start reading manga to work on retention; I'm only a few months into learning kanji, radicals, and vocab. I intended on continuing that and trying to read Mitsudomoe and then adding the kanji I encountered that I haven't learned yet and trying to translate it. If I'm using Anki, how would I add specific words to the deck that I'm currently studying for kanji/vocab?

>> No.17846217
File: 537 KB, 553x527, 2wEhl8S.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>tfw when you're reading a VN and then you try to look up a word, but realize the texthooker isn't even open and you've done fine without it for the last 10 whole minutes, and you know the readings of the kanji in the new word so you don't really need the hooker to look it up anyway

>> No.17846223

There's a button to add a card. But Anki is complex and somewhat counterintuitive, so you better read the manual.

>> No.17846268

Even the manual doesn't seem to help. May you point me in the right direction? I don't think I was specific, I should have a great deal of kanji already there that I haven't encountered yet in the deck. I'm just not sure how to move that specific card forwards.

>> No.17846280

I don't know that feel.

>> No.17846287

Ah, that. I don't know if it's possible. The easiest workaround would be to have a separate mining deck, and to add cards there as you are encountering new words.

>> No.17846303

What does みんしゃい mean?


>> No.17846307

I would guess its something like てみないじゃない?
If you can win, why dont you try?

>> No.17846317

looks dialectal

>> No.17846319


>> No.17846320


>> No.17846321

I don't generally mess with premade decks so I haven't really had to do this. As far as I know outside of sorting all new cards on a different field, the only way is to use a separate deck (filtered is easiest if they're already in there) and merge after they are learned, or possibly suspend all new cards and unsuspend the prioritized cards, then unsuspend the rest after learning.

>> No.17846337

My guess would be a colloquial slurring of 「勝ってみなさい」.

>> No.17846363

It's from Hanahira the scene where they play video games and kaori is losing all the time.



「ふふん、勝てるものなら勝ってみんしゃい」 「必ず勝ってみせる!」

「かかってきんしゃい!」 < another te form verb + しゃい at the end

「その前に、私も説明書を読むわ。情報だけでも、対等じゃないとね」 「どーぞどーぞ」

>I would guess its something like てみないじゃない?
>If you can win, why dont you try?
Never heard about that, do you have a link or something?

>> No.17846377

Nah, I dont have any link for that. In retrospect it seems bullshit, but the meaning seems to be about right.
>>17846337 seems to be right.

>> No.17846382


いきなりお説教してきた describes 人, correct? This sentence is confusing me.

>> No.17846424

I hate slang / slurring whatever it is.
Seems to be correct thx for the help.

>> No.17846524


While I'm at it, I'm not sure about this sentence here.
I don't really learned about counters so I'm not sure what she refers to here.

I interpreted it as something like this "If you can win one, I'll listen to what you say"
I could be completely wrong but that's what I think it might means.

>> No.17846567

Quoting bart simpson on jaypee?

>> No.17846574

The simpsons is a great anime

>> No.17846575

I don't get why these two don't have more views and subscribers. It is a decent growing channel.

>> No.17846590

was a great anime long long ago

prolly because i was bored to death in the first 5 seconds of the video

>> No.17846602

>いきなりお説教してきた describes 人, correct?

>> No.17846607
File: 579 KB, 912x720, 1494171902024.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>tfw when that tough reading material suddenly starts to feel easier

>> No.17846656

Is maggie-sensei a prime example of good info let down by shitty formatting?

>> No.17846662
File: 81 KB, 496x359, うわぁ!!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>made it through vol. 2 of 悪の華
>in vol. 3 the handwritten intermezzos are back.

>> No.17846705

Thanks, I have one more question:


What does ボコボコ mean here? None of the definitions really make sense given the context.

Don't worry the author abandons them again in later volumes. I just wish that the MEGA file had all the chapters. Volume 6 ends on a cliffhanger.

>> No.17846772

Can someone put
in a sentence. I can't really get a good understanding of this in isolation, it seems like a really long version of 'i.e'
or 所謂

>> No.17846815

Google it and click the weblio or kotobank entries.

>> No.17846839

Beat up.

>> No.17846875


>> No.17846934

thanks, didn't know about kotobank

>> No.17847100

I'm a little confused on the second sentence here, particularly the negation. Can the translation be something like "Actually considering that with a straight face... no, that can't be possible", or is my understanding wrong here?

>> No.17847175

what the fuck is the "tangible object" もの
these explanations are literally just "more emotion" where is the tangibility or the object

>> No.17847202

It isn't something you need to consider with such a serious face... probably

>> No.17847241

ニコニコ動画:GINZAが大嫌い 原宿を返せ くそ運営

>> No.17847280

a desk is a もの
a person is a もの
the universe is a もの
your having human hair is a こと
your living is a こと
the ideas in your head are こと

>> No.17847512


>> No.17847647

How do you guys use Anki? Do you write down the words and whatnot or do you just use the software?

>> No.17847652


I write the kanji until I feel like I don't need to anymore. I can't memorize kanji for shit without doing some amount of handwriting.

>> No.17847673

Most people seem to agree that physically writing, or enabling typing in answers, is slow and doesn't offer enough benefit. That being said, some people finger kanji strokes in the air when studying kanji directly, and if writing works better for you then go for it. I definitely physically write a new kanji a couple of times when it first appears in the learning phase.
I wouldn't bother doing that with words, as long as you're doing it with kanji.

>> No.17847700

How highly do you value en->jp vocab cards? More importantly, if I'm avoiding it now, am I going to cry when I add it and have thousands of new cards blocking my regular additions? I know that I can selectively enable them, but that sounds like a lot of micromanagement. How do you deal with words that have a very similar or identical English meaning? Slightly related, how do you deal with homographs in jp->en, do you just use sentence fragments or a more direct disambiguation keyword?

>> No.17847708




>> No.17847711

I know 5k and I still don't know what the fuck a Japanese is

>> No.17847719


I think the general consensus is that E-J vocab cards are pointless

>> No.17847770

People that say desu are girls right? Or can guys say it too?

>> No.17847779

it's gender-neutral polite language that is also used predominantly by girls in informal settings

>> No.17847793

>Any slice of life anime?
Kill yourself you fucking moron. I'm so sick and fucking tired of idiots pushing this cancerous meme. Pretty much ANY so called slice of life show will be chock full of pivotal vocabulary that you won't find in any Core vocab deck or most common 2k/6k/10k word frequency lists.
The faggots who vomit this meme would be lucky to actually comprehend 50% of these shows they like to think easy. All they do is watch the imagery and assume they understand what is actually being said. Take an audio rip of these shows and see how much you can follow simply from listening comprehension. I reckon you in particular would be entirely fucking lost.
You'll be lucky to find any "slice of life" anime series with less than 6k different words. 2k, even if it was the most frequent 2k taken directly from the series, will still leave you trying to interpret everything via the on-screen images and will be nothing more than a stab in the dark.

Fuck off and die.

>> No.17847799

Why is he so upset?

>> No.17847802
File: 54 KB, 451x569, 1502589537825.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17847804



>> No.17847811
File: 18 KB, 235x51, kill me.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Today I thought that, since I'm sick and tired of constantly mixing up kanji that look similar at a glance but ultimately are completely different, I would write every single word that appears as I do the card. Pic related. I usually blow through this amount of cards in like 25 minutes if that. I think next time I'm just gonna lower it to writing only the words that I fuck up on.

>> No.17847823
File: 1 KB, 325x54, Snap 2017-11-03 at 05.59.48.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

a ha ha...

>> No.17847833

Daily review of forgotten cards not cutting it?

>> No.17847848

Instead of doing this kind of shit, just do RTK.

>> No.17847858

The way you described it sounds like a kanji problem and not a vocab problem and like it should be done on kanji cards. Writing words wastes too much on the parts that you're not having trouble with. If it's a single kanji you can also think about the strokes or composition mentally without writing, but if writing works better feel free.
What are you doing? Writing? You should probably mark any card as wrong after it's been 30 seconds if that's thinking time.

>> No.17847875
File: 1 KB, 248x53, qsFlIXu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

im not doing so hot either, though I use anki mostly for learning new kanji so I just leave it open while I write down info elsewhere. I really need to figure out how to optimize my studying time because right now reviewing about 100-120 words + learning about 15-20 new words + 10 DoJG entry cards a day takes me up to 8 hours due to procrastination. It takes me about 3 if I do it at once with 100% focus.

>> No.17847880



>> No.17847881

Tomorrow I will start learning Japanese! This time it's true!

>> No.17847882

i dont understand how grammar works with koto yet ill reply eventually

>> No.17847884


>> No.17847899

>takes me up to 8 hours due to procrastination.
In my experience, you'll feel better and be able to use your free time more fully if you do everything you can to avoid that. I currently try to have everything I will add the next day prepared before I sleep, so that I can jump straight into new cards + review after I wake up and eat breakfast. If you can't trust yourself not to put it off until too late, you could try doing the preparation for the next day immediately after reviews. I intend to move towards that.
That's just general advice for procrastination, optimization is good too.

>> No.17847902



>> No.17847944


>> No.17847947


Set it to 10 seconds or less.

>> No.17847960



>> No.17847974

Can someone put their skills to use and translate this please?

>> No.17847977
File: 58 KB, 450x514, 1499032561493.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

what's the difference between 議論, 討論, 討議, and 論議?

>> No.17847978


>> No.17848019

"◎ Is your circle wriggling in the dark Sunday Eastern District "system" was put on the block-27 b. I got. I think it says something DELE mass of undecided. Thank you in advance."
I've been self-learning for 6 years so I'm pretty confident in my translation.

>> No.17848079

This is where J-J definitions and example sentences come in handy.

>> No.17848096

>Spend years doing reading practice with manga VNs and LNs
>Realise being able to read Japanese doesn't have any connection to being able to listen to it
>Spend a year doing constant listening practice with anime
>Realise I still can't understand variety in the slightest
>Spend a year doing constant listening practice with idol variety shows
>Realise I still can't understand normal variety shows
>Spend a year just listening to fucking anything Japanese all the time
>Can still barely understand actual Japanese conversation

>> No.17848097



>> No.17848111

make moonrune friends and try to talk to them over voip

>> No.17848124

What do "years" and "a year" actually mean here? 6 hours every day for a year? 1 hour every week for a year? 5 seconds every month for a year? With English subtitles? Without English subtitles?

>> No.17848128

Presumably a few hours a week.

>> No.17848185

Give up, you're retarded.

>> No.17848231


>> No.17848233


>> No.17848247
File: 92 KB, 1000x666, Chinatsu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i would never. why cant i have a qt imouto to protect and cherish, my actual sister fucking sucks

>> No.17848274

I just clear my daily reviews and new cards and then move on to reading books or manga or something.

>> No.17848278
File: 325 KB, 500x500, 1506985176303.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why is it that within a given work written by a single author, the same words will be written on some occasions in kanji and on other occasions in kana?

What's with the inconsistency? Even when the words in question are all being said by the same character, the way they're written still changes seemingly just at random.

>> No.17848291

„If you manage to win at least one game (round), I'll hear you (?, Kaori) out.“

>> No.17848293

>What are you doing? Writing?
Yes. Also repeating the word a few times out loud.

>> No.17848296

Maybe to clear up possible ambiguity from writing several kana in a row or to make it easier to read?
Just as a nonsense example:
わからないならすぐにこっちにきてください can be improved by adding kanji in a few places to make it a little easier to read:
The only questionable change is writing すぐ as 直ぐ but it works. All these words are usually always written in kana but it becomes a little easier to read at a glance.

It could also just be to make a certain part of the sentence look flashier or something. I dunno.

>> No.17848385


>> No.17848399


>> No.17848528


>> No.17848547


>> No.17848591

「hit us up at 東地区“シ”ブロック-27b to get your do-jin hentai you lowlifes. we got some real sick (not the good kind of sick) shit this time. best regards」

>> No.17848602

wait until the shocking realization sets in that youve been learning japanese this whole time

>> No.17848708
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>> No.17848828
File: 76 KB, 900x831, 1479034425029.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why are there so many words which can be written with multiple different kanji?

I'm almost certain that in the vast majority of these cases, the different kanji reflect absolutely no difference in meaning and that the less commonly used kanji is only considered an acceptable spelling because a large amount of illiterate people at some point in history were all spelling the word wrong in the same way.

It would be like in English if the next iteration of the Oxford Dictionary decided that "ocassion" and "occassion" were acceptable spellings of "occasion" just because a large amount of illiterate retards use those spellings by mistake.

Why can't Japanese dictionary makers just decide "alright retards, here's how it spelt, if you're using any other kanji you're doing it wrong".

Yes, I know there are some cases like 聞く and 聴く where the kanji do reflect different senses of the word, but I'm convinced that those are rare exceptions.

>> No.17848846



>> No.17848898

Yeah I know what you mean, I kinda wish there were more rules and stuff like authors that use a special snowflake kanji for some words cause they think they are cool wouldn't exist.
An official list of dunno 3000 kanji that are allowed to use (and only these) would be nice as well.

>> No.17848909

Who's going to enforce your idiotic rule?

>> No.17848923

Shut up faggot, where I live there is a norm for about everything and it fucking works perfectly.

A rational thinking person (not you obviously) would agree that having a standard, especially for your fucking writing system makes fucking sense.

>> No.17848929

>A rational thinking person (not you obviously)
*tips fedora*

>> No.17849105

so I feel like I only understand like maybe 50% of what a sentence means when I read it. Should I sit down and make sure I get eveyr sentence like 100%, or just keep going?

>> No.17849183


>> No.17849229

is there a version of the real-time import for rikaikun too?

>Should I sit down and make sure I get eveyr sentence like 100%
probably not, unless you really wanna burn out. better to ask and try to remember it than sit there and attempt to "solve" everything

>> No.17849301


>> No.17849361

Just use yomi

>> No.17849370

Whats the big difference anyway?

>> No.17849470

>a large amount of illiterate people at some point in history were all spelling the word wrong in the same way.
Can't be wrong when there is no right yet. Keep in mind the whole country was speaking the language illiterately before they adopted kanji from China.
That being said, I've heard the theory that にほん developed from misreading にっぽん without already knowing the correct reading before (han)dakuten and sokuon were used. Stuck around because it sounds softer/more polite.
>Why can't Japanese dictionary makers just decide "alright retards, here's how it spelt, if you're using any other kanji you're doing it wrong".
English already has a divide between American and UK English spelling, and tons of other words with subjectively wrong allowable spellings or pronunciations. Another important factor is that language is not static, as much as language elitists like to cry about change. No language would be where it is today if it was a massive insult to break the "rules".

>> No.17849483

How hard are pokemon games to understand in japanese?

>> No.17849498

Not much. If you are considering playing ULTRAMOON/SUN in Japanese then go for it. It's perfect practice for beginners.

>> No.17849558

After living in Japan for 3 years I've finally signed up to go to language class.

Really hope they go easy on me and there isn't lots of Chinese and Koreans smashing the kanji while I sit at the back like a fucking brainlet.

>> No.17849570

You should hope they aren't easy on you so you actually learn the language within this century.

>> No.17849571

You lived in Japan for 3 years without knowing Japanese? What are you, a NEET?

>> No.17849619

Not him but my friend moved to Japan some years ago and he basically only stays in his apartment watching anime all day as he did when he lived in his home country. His Japanese is quite good. But for him the only thing that changed was the name of country where he lives, nothing else. People are odd.

>> No.17849632

To be honest, an average weeb would not find a lot of things to do outside the house, in Japan or elsewhere.

>> No.17849640

Yeah good point

Wife speaks English. Job is online and doesn't require Japanese. It's remarkably easy to get by without studying and as we all know. Time fucking flies by

>> No.17849641

Language classes are for brainlets. Whether you sit in the back or not makes no difference.

Think how many Pakistanis there are in the UK and Hispanics living in the US who can't speak a word of English.

It has little to do with being a NEET, weeb or anything else. It's just pure laziness. People can't be bothered to learn the language so they just make friends with other foreigners and keep watching/listening to media from their home country si they don't have to.

>> No.17849656

It's a bad strategy. Without actively trying to integrate into the country you live in, you would fail to connect to natives (because cultures are different even across Europe, not to speak of the fucking Japan), feel alienated, start disliking natives, and spend your days with similarly sad people.

>> No.17849660

>there isn't lots of Chinese and Koreans smashing the kanji
Feel bad for you telling that such things would NEVER happen...
I hope they have separated class for non East Asians...
Or you will learn the feeling of being botch (ぼっち) in Japan.

>> No.17849669

Do koreans ever learn the chinese characters at home? I heard they completely switched to hangeul now.

>> No.17849698

Yeah they’re likely totally illiterate on Kanjis for some cases, but at the same time they are likely to become so proficient so fast somehow.
But you could expect them to be good at English also, so they might help you.
Or you will relish the taste of 便所飯.

>> No.17849760


>> No.17849769


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>> No.17849824


>> No.17849847

英語の表現「turn your back on (someone)」から直訳しちゃったから日本語で意味あらへんな


>> No.17849861

It's about the original semantics of each kanji, that are imported from Chinese. You have to remember that kanji were assigned to native Japanese words, and originally the Japanese wrote in crippled literary Chinese (see also 漢文). So you have things like 超える (to exceed something intangible) and 越える (to exceed something physical), and 笑う (to smile) and 嗤う (to sneer). It is a base word こえる or わらう, and the kanji refines the meaning.

>> No.17849890


Is this more like "Don't take too long!" or "No rush!"?

>> No.17849899

Not even close.
More along the lines of "You sure came back early!"

>> No.17849900

Actually just end me now, I'm a retard who mistook the て for a た.
In which case it's more along the lines of "Come back in good time, okay!"

>> No.17849904

Okay thanks. I can never tell if the な is emphatic or negative.

>> No.17849911

In this case it would be relatively easy since the imperative negative form of 戻ってくる would be 戻ってくるな。
In addition, the imperative negative form isn't used that much (not never or only rarely, just not that much) and it's almost always emphatic in casual contexts.

>> No.17849917




>> No.17849921

Good to know, thanks! I can usually tell based on context but in that case either could work based on the previous dialogue.

>> No.17849922


>> No.17849947

いやいやホンマw またヒロくんに厳しすぎるで

>> No.17849980

I could be wrong but as far as I know きてな couldn't be interpreted as anything but as a light request (IIRC -てね/な is an abbreviation of and a less stiff version of -てくださいね/な) and this rings true for basically anything where the sentence ends with てね/な。
If you want to use the imperative negative form you gotta say くるな, although there are the slangy versions of こねー (almost always こねー[よ/ぞ/ぜ] to make it obvious it's just a slurred version of こない) and きてじゃねー[よ/ぞ/ぜ] - although in my experience the latter is more commonly used said when a character is angry and quoting someone else and basically telling them to fuck off (e.g. A「素敵な天気ですね」B「素敵な天気ですじゃねーぞコラッ雨降ってるぞ」if you want a quick and silly example.)

>> No.17850073

Are there rules to omitting particles? Is it purely used in casual speech, only for certain particles, only sometimes, etc?

>> No.17850082

Living the dream.

>> No.17850084

Imperative negative? Wtf I've never even heard of the term before

>> No.17850086

if it can be understood from context i think most anything goes, just like english, in informal of course. if its like essay or professional writing someone experienced will have to answer

>> No.17850087

It's not a term.

>> No.17850101

Yeah, sorry. I was just blindly looking at what yomichan told me and couldn't be bothered to look up the actual term, which is just plain "imperative."
I blame the fact that I'm tired and need to sleep.

>> No.17850106

Ah no problem. Ye me too it's 6am already

>> No.17850195

I was discussing Japanese study with a friend, and he said it was crucial to add pictures to my anki cards so I associate Japanese words with concepts and meanings rather than English words.

How accurate is this?

>> No.17850206

You can do whatever, but it's not that important I think. I only do it for food or animals that are otherwise unfamiliar to me.

>> No.17850209

its either that or you mentally do it/read a lot so context makes sense.

certain words make a lot more sense when pictured because when you think in english you have to figure out all the different nuances between which word "fits".

mostly though, this >>17850206

I generally use it for certain concepts mentally personally

>> No.17850225

After he talked about it with me I've made a conscious effort to visualize contexts and examples during my reps. It has made some difference, but it can be pretty awkward for conceptual words.

>> No.17850228

It's crucial that you don't waste time that could be spent learning Japanese tinkering with flashcards.

>> No.17850229
File: 861 KB, 1366x768, Screenshot (87).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can anyone make out this word? Closest I could find was 眼科 but I don't think that's right.

>> No.17850233

I have never heard anyone who is actually good at Japanese recommend doing this.

Is your friend fluent? If not, you have no reason to listen to anything he says about learning Japanese.

>> No.17850238


>> No.17850257

>Is your friend fluent?
No. When we talked he was less far along in vocabulary and grammar than me, although he was learning how to write kanji which I'm not bothering with.

Honestly, I didn't trust him enough to try adding pictures to the deck. I was just checking if there was any consensus about it.

This is reassuring by the way. Thanks y'all.

>> No.17850264

>language class
You like getting scammed? Probably 5% of language classes in Japan are worth shit, the rest are pay monthly for some listening/speaking exposure with a teacher and don't think of overworking yourself and actually learning more than 5 kanji a week or you'll stop paying us when you realize we're no longer helpful. Regardless, good luck, but know that if you want to get anywhere you're still going to have to do the same self-study as everyone else.
In addition, you can easily get more constructive immersion in your home country than in Japan, the only real benefit is more native dialect variety (speaking extremely simple day-to-day language unless you're already competent enough to engage without being spoken to you like you're a child).
>but at the same time they are likely to become so proficient so fast somehow.
I'd credit work ethic, even when doing inefficient rote learning.
It's not crucial, but building associations between different regions of the brain is generally considered good and that is one strategy. Perhaps someone who actually does it can offer more input, I swear by making my own cards and I can't be assed to find appropriate pictures for all of them. If I only do a few, I presume that my brain is going to pay more attention to "oh this is one of the cards with pictures so it must be this" than what the picture actually contains.
Some people also think it's better when possible for your first words, than putting an English word on the front. I also don't do this so I can't say.

>> No.17850275

>although he was learning how to write kanji which I'm not bothering with.
Depending on the extent, I would suggest you reconsider. You don't need to write on paper (and I would suggest against this aside from your first time encountering it perhaps), but if you can mentally picture the components or optionally the strokes, you'll be a lot better off when you start getting to complicated look-alikes. I may be assuming, however, so apologies if you're far along and doing fine with radicals.

>> No.17850276

It's a class ran by the local prefecture, just a few hours during the week for a couple of months .

>> No.17850286

That will get you absolutely nowhere. You could make more progress on your own in a week.

>> No.17850289

Would you recommend playing Tenshin Ranman/ 天神乱漫 or satsukoi/サツコイ first?

>> No.17850292

Whatever you're more interested in.

>> No.17850295

Complicated look alikes can be a nuisance, but comparing them side by side has generally worked pretty well for learning how to distinguish them.

Does kanji writing study help that much with retention or recognition?

>> No.17850302

Well, I'm not quite sure and that's why I am asking :D

>> No.17850315

it makes an incredible difference for me.

>> No.17850317

No, it will get me out the house and into an environment that will hopefully kick start my studying again

>> No.17850333

Stop thinking in terms of "studying".

Just read Tae Kim's guide (if you haven't already) and then start reading whatever you're interested in. You're lucky enough to have a Japanese wife who speaks English who you can ask to clarify things for you when you get stuck. There's absolutely no reason to be wasting your time with classes.

>> No.17850334

It seems to be generally agreed upon that at least ensuring you COULD write the kanji forces you to pay more attention to their composition which helps solidify the details and differences in your mind. I just do keyword->kanji on my kanji cards and mentally produce it, and if I remember it very well I just picture the whole kanji instead of the composition or strokes, and I consider that to be working much better than my first attempt personally.

>> No.17850343

>There's absolutely no reason to be wasting your time with classes.

There is mate, it's called getting out the house for a bit and studying. I work from home and the wife's at her job all day

I'll look into Tae Kim for when I'm in home.

>> No.17850356

>it's called getting out the house for a bit

>> No.17850359

>I'll look into Tae Kim for when I'm in home.
In other words, you haven't even taken the initiative to read the guide and try learning on your own.

When you said "kick start my studying again", what studying exactly were you referring to? What "studying" have you been doing up until now?

>> No.17850383

Couple chapters of genki and JP for busy people years ago.

You know you sound like a condescending prick right? Has anyone ever told you that? What sort of day job do you have?

>> No.17850384

Watching anime of course.

>> No.17850481



>屋号+専門+科 or 医院


しゃどばす(shadow birth)眼科(ophthalmology)


>> No.17850497

He, like every other extrovert that mistakenly is allowed online, wants to be trendy. Leave them be.
Like every other magpie before them, the next shiny thing will catch their eye and they'll toddle off.

>> No.17850518

>>but at the same time they are likely to become so proficient so fast somehow.
>I'd credit work ethic, even when doing inefficient rote learnin
I am sorry, I exaggerated the things as general rule of 4 Chan. Koreans may know kanjis, maybe less than 100, as they know at least how to write their own names in it. And probably they have bunch of countrymen friends who are already proficient at Japanese and give them attentive advices in their language.

And if you are so determined, it could be possible to build your Japanese without stepping out your house at all. Most Japanese aren’t likely to be familiarized to the grammar of our own language but in a couple of months your wife would reach the degree where she could give you some decent grammatical analysis for your study.

BUT why you are so RELUCTANT to go outside and have unknown occasion? To be honest I have never had any experience to attend those Japanese classes and maybe other anons neither.
You can confirm the state by your own eyes and quit it if you feel it’s inappropriate for you. It sounds like you have sufficient time and money to try it for a while.
Besides, one of my friends once asked me if I would assist the business he was managing, namely Japanese school. I refused it because I was not convinced that I could present effective lectures for students and have sufficient time to spare. But I have felt like it could be somehow interesting since I met these threads and knew how you learning anons were sincere in learning our language.

>> No.17850526

I'm having trouble saying "I want to look for a famous place that was in an anime."

Here's what I got:

Is this right? I'm unsure if this is the proper way to use 'no naka de'.

>> No.17850553



>> No.17850570

Almost perfect.
Even if they don’t get you the obstacle would get solved with another couple of phrases you would tell them.

>> No.17850571

It doesn't seem right to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong but ~の中(なか) is for physical things, while ~中(ちゅう) is for other things.
Also, the word for "in a show" is 劇中(げきちゅう).
But personally I would not even use 中 to translate "place that was in an anime."
(place that has become the setting of an anime) should be more idiomatic Japanese.

>> No.17850580

heh heh

>> No.17850610

I don't wanna fucking do anki

>> No.17850612



>> No.17850626

Try any owarai show. Lots of Kansai dialect.

>> No.17850641

Sorry, I'm not a Kansai native, but your attempt just doesn't sound right.

>> No.17850650


>> No.17850653

Is it real kansai-ben or エセ関西弁?

>> No.17850666





>> No.17850667
File: 107 KB, 257x610, 1486766322164.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17850673


I liked this exchange

>> No.17850682

What Matsumoto Hitoshi and his cohorts speak is real one.

>> No.17850697



>> No.17850698

Is learning japanese actually worth it?
I mostly wanna see cute girls dancing and singing some mythical shit while wearing colourful outfits.
Will understanding them make the experience better, and does it actually improve the time i spend watching anime?
Will i be able to understand music in general without looking up every second fkn word on some lyrics site due to acoustic misunderstandings?
How essential is it to visit japan anyway
Im 2 days in and can recall all hiragana/katakana and like 10 kanjis (20 when including the numbers). Its fun but i really have my doubts now that i can somewhat see the difficulty of this chaotic squiggle shitfest of a written language.

>> No.17850715


>> No.17850718

Do you want to be able to understand the language or do you want to rely on a 3rd party to translate the shit you want to read?

>> No.17850730


>> No.17850742

I'd prefer the first option which is why i gave it a try in the first place.
Did it change your experience in a major way tho? I'm assuming you are experienced

>> No.17850753
File: 92 KB, 846x906, nRj2uYa.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

can someone describe the "み" ending of adjectives better than dojg? I don't understand it nearly at all, and the example sentence's translations dont seem to be match at all.

>> No.17850760




>> No.17850762

something's measurable capacity in Xness; the amount of its applicability or relevance to the object
the X itself; not a measurement of how much X there is, merely the X as a こと

>> No.17850768

wow, dojg is terrible at explaining sometimes. Thank you

>> No.17850816

You may have confused me with another anon, not sure.
>And if you are so determined, it could be possible to build your Japanese without stepping out your house at all.
I completely agree with this.
>You can confirm the state by your own eyes and quit it if you feel it’s inappropriate for you.
This is fair, but it seems that many people who choose language classes think of it as an alternative to independent study, and wont be able to judge if it is actually effective or not. It does not seem to be uncommon for people to take a year or two in classes, gain very little skill in the language, and decide that this is evidence that "Japanese is impossible".
In my opinion, the most important thing is that you need to put in a similar amount of work whether you take a class or not. A good class could be beneficial on top of independent study, it's just very important to recognize that it wont replace independent study.
>Will understanding them make the experience better
Probably. Personally, I love understanding intricacies and jokes as they were intended, that are often lost in translation.
>and does it actually improve the time i spend watching anime?
Not enough by itself. Also subs interfere, if you're using them.
>Will i be able to understand music in general
Depends how punny and obscure it is.
>How essential is it to visit japan anyway
Do it for fun sometime, not for "immersion".
>Im 2 days in and can recall all hiragana/katakana and like 10 kanjis (20 when including the numbers).
You seem to be off to a good start, keep at it and try to recognize and address any stumbling blocks before they pile up and you feel overwhelmed.

>> No.17850825


>> No.17850830

The explanation is trying to systemize why it's natural to use one or the other at different times, but it completely misses the difference in what the core meaning is. Grammar resources for Japanese written in English by non-native speakers of English basically all have this problem, but DoJG has it really bad.

>> No.17850865

>Probably. Personally, I love understanding intricacies and jokes as they were intended, that are often lost in translation.
That would certainly make it more worthwhile.
Thanks for your encouragement. I'll keep trying

>> No.17850874

First, thanks for replying me, and

>>And if you are so determined, it could be possible to build your Japanese without stepping out your house at all.
>I completely agree with this.
But I will never tell that to someone who DOESN’T have a Japanese partner.

>it wont replace independent study.
Of course, sorry for missing this.
I presume that the school would be good complement to your study, even if you would spare some of your self learning time for it.

And by the way, could I ask...
how was my English?

>> No.17850900 [DELETED] 


>> No.17850916

2/8 correct answers on mature cards. I'm not gonna make it, boys.

>> No.17850925

Stop wasting your time with anki and read.

>> No.17850956

Your English is mostly very solid, and you're clearly developing a good vocabulary. Here's one minor correction:

>would be good complement to your study
"would be good compliment" sounds fairly awkward without an article before "good compliment". Also, you're thinking of the word "complement", not "compliment" (this is the kind of mistake native speakers make all the time, so no worries).

>would be a good complement
This sounds much more normal to native English speakers. In general, if a noun isn't proper, plural, or a general concept, then it's a good idea to put an article before it.

>> No.17850965

Could try OsakaPro if you like プロレス

>> No.17850973


he did write complement.

>> No.17850984

I do both, but I don't do well learning new words through just reading (it took me more than half a book to start remembering 放課後 and I promptly forgot it after I finished said book).

>> No.17850989

This is why you watch K-ON.

>> No.17850994


I made the mistake when I was quoting him, reread my quote, and then corrected him on it. My bad.

>> No.17851078

Thank you so much and OK! I felt anxious if there’s other meanings for “compliment”, but got relieved, thanks

And these feedbacks from natives are what I have been so desperate for and the reason why I visit here so often and recommended you to have a class, but you already have one beside you.

And could anyone tell me the meaning of “solid” here?
“stiff”? or “not broken”?

>> No.17851128

Solid can be used interchangeably with good/high quality.

Solid means stable, durable, unlikely to fall apart, etc. You can probably understand how it's seen as a positive quality.

>> No.17851134

"solid" can be mean something like "しっかり" in english.

>> No.17851186

Thank you!


>> No.17851205
File: 992 KB, 1366x768, Screenshot (88).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

According to jisho,

逃散: 1. fleeing in all directions; (in Japanese history, a reference to) farmers who abandoned their fields and fled to the cities or other districts to evade onerous taxes​

How does that relate to what's going on in this comic? Am I reading it wrong?

>> No.17851225

A lot of japanese words dont have a 1:1 equivalent with english words so you do end up missing nuance.
I would recommend everyone to use a japanese dictionary as soon as possible.

>> No.17851236

Any easy way to convert my 5000+ card mining deck to Japanese definitions?

>> No.17851238

I don't see 逃散 there anywhere.

>> No.17851246

Sorry, it's in the first panel, not in a speech bubble. Written as 逃さん though, so it might not be that word.

>> No.17851253

It's 逃さない cut off.

>> No.17851261

Ah, that explains it. Thanks for the sharp eye.

>> No.17851265

Don't bother, just have a look over at a japanese dictionary when mining from now on, take a look at both an english and a japanese one if it a word you really aren't clear about.

>> No.17851269

Your best bet would be to either keep the current one and add just new cards for words you dont know with japanese definitions, or you drop your current one and create a new one where you will only use japanese definitions.

>> No.17851305





>> No.17851391
File: 936 KB, 350x192, 79879.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17851431

>how was my English?
You used strange wording a few times, but it was very easy to understand. You definitely seem to have good conversation skills and vocabulary, so I'll try to be picky to be as informative as I can.
A couple of mistakes that show up a few times are missing or occasionally misused articles (a, the) and prepositions (to, with). I have never taught English so I can't be very helpful with that. You also made a couple of mistakes with plural words, either adding an "s" that shouldn't be there, or leaving off an "s" that should. Aside from that, here are things that sounded strange to me.
>And probably they have bunch of countrymen friends who are already proficient
"they probably" sounds better than "probably they", and "countrymen friends" sounds strange to me. I'd use "native friends" I think.
>and have unknown occasion
Occasions, but I'd say "and have new experiences" maybe.
>I have never had any experience to attend those Japanese classes
"I have never had the experience of attending those" or "I have never experienced attending those".
>since I met these threads
Met isn't used with inanimate objects, "since I found these threads".
>and knew how you learning anons were sincere in learning our language.
Change "knew how" to "saw how", and maybe leave out the first "learning", it's a little unnatural to say it twice

>> No.17851439




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>> No.17851591

Are there better alternatives to weblio as a J-J dictionary?

>> No.17851610
File: 582 KB, 1920x1080, 20171102134917_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17851620

Goo辞書 or daijisen/daijirin

>> No.17851819


You know how cringy it can sound when foreigners who can barely speak English in the formal register try to use slang? That's how your 決して似非関西弁ではないなにか sounds to my native Japanese (but not native Kansai) ears.

>> No.17851829

I dunno my dude, Mexicans around here are better at speaking slang English than formal

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File: 246 KB, 500x282, tumblr_n4c76ltjAH1qbmptuo1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17852234

Since you can speak English well enough I'll just skip writing in either broken Japanese or a southern US dialect.
I know my Japanese is still pretty bad. I don't speak in the Kansai dialect to anyone other than people I know won't care or aren't at a level to tell good Japanese from bad Japanese. The last thing for that matter that I want to do is make someone from Kansai think I'm ridiculing them with my forced Kansai dialect everywhere. I just type in it for fun, and I imagine anyone learning a new language likes to do play around with it to show their enthusiasm for it.

I'm sorry it sounds cringy to you, but at the same time since there's hardly any native Japanese speakers in this thread and probably at least a few more people other than me who love the Kansai dialect, I don't think anyone really minds.
That said, I'm not using it as an excuse to type in the most faux Kansai dialect I can, but there's also very few resources that tell you what words and grammar is actually used (I use っとる a fair amount, but I bet almost nobody actually types it because it's annoying to do and it's faster to just type ってる) but if I do learn something is hardly ever used (I know almost nobody says はん in place of さん except in pure jest) then I try to incorporate it.

As you can imagine, because I'm a foreigner and can't properly speak standard Japanese as is, finding someone who'd be willing to teach me how to speak proper Kansai would be nigh impossible. Even assuming I were fluent, who'd really dedicate their time to telling you what they, a speaker of only one version of the many varied dialects within the Kansai dialect itself, thinks is natural or not?

Oh and yeah, sorry for calling you an アホ, I thought you were telling me it sounded unnatural when I said in that post that I know it's fake.

>> No.17852254





>> No.17852264

>waahhh, someone is telling me the truth about what a useless twat i am
The only prick here is you moving to another country and not even having the decency to try learning its language.

My own country is full of scum like you. If you're not going to make any effort to integrate then you shouldn't even be there.

>> No.17852321

>it's another "kanji reads as "kou" " episode
getting real tired of this

>> No.17852427

Is it a decent idea to learn my first kanji readings from Japanese names after I'm done with RTK?

PS koohi le MR T explanations for person-kanji are so cringy, I'm glad I can make up my own when necessary

>> No.17852443

That's a horrible idea because Japanese names, at best, have some patterns to reading them once you get used to them, but unless it's a common name you can only make an educated guess on how you should read it and even then you can be wrong.
It'd be like learning to drive a truck just so you have an idea of how to hold the helm on a ship.

>> No.17852451

I see what you mean. Maybe I've encountered only the most basic of names like Ishikawa, Tanaka, Nakazawa, Takahashi etc. But the readings in them where consistent (ta/da in 田) so I thought it could be a good idea provided how often I see the names.

>> No.17852458

Why the fuck would you want to read names only instead of reading proper texts containing them?

>> No.17852464

because I can read a bunch of them in one place instead of looking for them throughout a vast place? just because I'd learn the few readings from most common names wouldn't mean that I wouldn't read native texts on side

>> No.17852465

Yes. As I said, there are patterns, but a lot of names come straight out of left field and at best make no sense and at worst teach you the least common reading for the kanji.
Granted, some names, just like words, can be guessed or not necessarily be "wrong" (I remember reading 人手 as ニンシュ when I first found it and it turned out to be the more straightforward ひとで reading) but at the end of the day names can be read in a lot more ways and use a bigger pool of kanji than the common use kanji list does.

>> No.17852467



>> No.17852468

OK, you've convinced me not to learn that way!

>> No.17852478

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should never memorize any names, especially not the more common ones since they usually are what you'd expect (although if you're talking to them it never hurts to ask) but I would recommend getting used to the readings of kanji through words FIRST and once you have a solid grasp on the readings, THEN you can read more about names if you'd like.
You can do both at the same time if you can somehow mentally separate names from words, but I won't recommend anything I wouldn't do or be able to do myself.

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>> No.17852792

Is there a way with anki to add in more cards to your session when you get down to just a few?

It's always the hardest cards left at the end, and when I click "<10 minutes" but there's only 5 cards left it doesn't give you the time, and you don't know if you'll really remember it.

>> No.17852793
File: 3.46 MB, 1920x1080, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Cool little feature here. So basically なん is replacing the predicate? I feel more japanese now
Them japanese leave too much for the listener to fill in

>> No.17852800

なんだ is just a more colloquial なのだ

>> No.17852816

That's not what's happening in that sentence

>> No.17852827

Unless there's some context trickery there it looks like a simple "Hey, we've been standing around talking for a bit, why don't you sit down?" to me. Nothing is really being omitted.

>> No.17852837

Anyone any media with both a full voice-over and subs in jap?

>> No.17852838






>> No.17852843

Not really, it's tricky to translate because there isn't a 1:1 english version of that expression but it says like "No point in just talking while standing, let's sit down". She's not explaining that they have been talking and standing as なのだ would do (by the way that would be ungrammatical either way, as なのだ can't follow も). She's pointing out that it is awkward standing up while having a conversation while there are chairs around.

>> No.17852845

video games

>> No.17852875

The も there comes out to me as she was making a slightly offtopic comment, and the なんだ comes off to me as she is explaining that, in addition to the current situation, they've been 立ち話ing and offered for them to take a seat. I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to use もなのだ.

But yeah, there are implications, I just don't think she is replacing the fact that standing around is exhausting or awkward with なんだ but rather its implied in 立ち話.

>> No.17852889

Nah man. See here: https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1070410110

>> No.17852914

>pointing out that it is awkward
“なん” or “なに” (often written in katakana but it would make the speaker sound like a aged man :おやじ臭い) is a noun which is to be translated as “that” or “things you know”, practically something the speaker feel unwilling or bothered to state distinctly.

And when “なに” is written in katakana “ナニ”, it has also meaning of “penis” or “to fuck”. But it is surely オヤジ臭い.

>> No.17852915

its 立ち話すing

>> No.17852921

Ah, I see what you mean now. Its seems we came to a similar meaning but through different interpretations (though in my case incorrect).

>> No.17852945
File: 363 KB, 452x710, Generally disappointed 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>three months in and I still need more than half an hour to go through a basic chapter of a manga
I'm not being retarded, right?

>> No.17853024

3 months is nothing, no one can read comfortably after so little time

>> No.17853034

I think manga would be difficult especially for novices because it is colloquial. And even more, as principal techniques of direction, creators would often be directed by editors to shorten the character’s line and make them more implying in order to make reader’s attention not be distracted from focusing on the pictures. So I presume it would more easier to try on some novels rather than them.

>> No.17853091

She's cute. Does she have a name?
"this bitch" got me nothing.

>> No.17853125

Do you recommend something?
Good publishers of children's stories perhaps?

>> No.17853136


>> No.17853170
File: 3.52 MB, 1920x1080, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

8. and; in addition to​
I had encountered this usage of に before but I got that it meant something like -and- so I didn't look it up, but now I decided to share it with the beginners

/blog off

>> No.17853178

wait till you understand what に feels like without having to select a definition

>> No.17853186


>> No.17853203

I understood it before reaching for them 辞書 though :(
Aと一緒にB; not just A but also B

>> No.17853210

For me it sometimes takes even longer, as I'm usually going through various dictionaries looking for every unknown word or phrase I encounter - even if I can figure out what's going on from the context of it. It's painful, but I believe it's beneficial for me in the long run.

>> No.17853306

It takes about 30-60 minutes for me too. I've only read 7 volumes of manga, since I like to read VNs more. I can feel myself speeding up with VNs since I can see the amount of characters I've read every day, and it encourages me to keep going.

That, and mousing over is much faster than any lookup method I've tried with mangas. (Not even OCR, please don't recommend it to me.)

>> No.17853393
File: 416 KB, 1216x1446, new books.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

New ebooks in http://djt.netlify.com. Thanks to the anons who shared ゴブリンスレイヤー and これはゾンビですか?.
[入間人間] 電波女と青春男 (retail to replace non-retail, 1-11)
[サンキュータツオ] 国語辞典の遊び方
[一橋文哉] 経済ヤクザ
[中上健次] 千年の愉楽
[中村文則] 掏摸(スリ)
[乃南アサ] 来なけりゃいいのに
[久坂部羊] 悪医
[住野よる] また、同じ夢を見ていた
[前川裕] クリーピー
[加納新太] 君の名は。Another Side:Earthbound
[吉本ばなな] キッチン
[坂木司] 短劇
[姉村アネム] 静寂の月 Another
[富坂聰] 中国汚染の真相
[尾崎世界観] 祐介
[岩井俊二] ラヴレター
[平野啓一郎] マチネの終わりに
[恩田陸] 蜜蜂と遠雷
[折原一・新津きよみ] 二重生活
[星新一] 悪魔のいる天国
[朝井リョウ] 何者
[木原音瀬] ラブセメタリー
[木村心一] これはゾンビですか?
[村上春樹] 女のいない男たち
[松岡圭祐] 水鏡推理
[柚木麻子] 伊藤くんA to E
[橘玲] 言ってはいけない 残酷すぎる真実
[池井戸潤] BT’63
[池井戸潤] かばん屋の相続
[池井戸潤] シャイロックの子供たち
[池井戸潤] 仇敵
[池井戸潤] 新装版 不祥事
[池井戸潤] 新装版 銀行総務特命
[池井戸潤] 果つる底なき
[池井戸潤] 架空通貨
[池井戸潤] 株価暴落
[池井戸潤] 民王
[池井戸潤] 銀行狐
[田中経一] ラストレシピ 麒麟の舌の記憶
[矢部宏治] 知ってはいけない 隠された日本支配の構造
[福澤徹三] 死小説
[秋吉理香子] 暗黒女子
[綾辻行人etc.] 7人の名探偵 新本格30周年記念アンソロジー
[羽田圭介] 御不浄バトル
[羽田圭介] 黒冷水
[茨木のり子] 詩のこころを読む
[蝸牛くも] ゴブリンスレイヤー
[西尾維新] 十二大戦
[西尾維新] 悲鳴伝 伝説
[貫井徳郎] 愚行録
[赤瀬川原平] 新解さんの謎
[連城三紀彦] 戻り川心中
[鈴木智彦] ヤクザと原発 福島第一潜入記
New volumes:
[衣笠彰梧] ようこそ実力至上主義の教室へ (+7)
[河野裕] サクラダリセット (+2-7)
[渡航] やはり俺の青春ラブコメはまちがっている。 (+12)
[山形石雄] 六花の勇者 (+archive1)
[支倉凍砂] 狼と香辛料 (+19, 狼と羊皮紙)
[雫井脩介] 検察側の罪人 (+下)
Download: https://djtguide.neocities.org/djtlib_link.txt

>> No.17853400

Sorry, I couldn’t find anything to be appropriate for you.
This may be too easy for you and you can not copy and paste to check a dictionary, but...

To learn today’s language, I have to recommend contemporary literature, but I don’t have sufficient knowledge on it, and copyright of those literatures haven’t expired yet.

Because you have learned it just for three months, I recommended such a childish book above, but if you have any of friends or anons here who are more proficient and would help you, they would have already known “狼と香辛料:wolves and spices” and would give you proper advices.
I feel bad for you not giving you proper recommendation.

>> No.17853476
File: 81 KB, 645x470, がんばる!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Everything's people provide is helpful

>> No.17853540
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>> No.17853548
File: 111 KB, 975x1476, cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>[富坂聰] 中国汚染の真相

>> No.17853584

"read children's stories to learn a language" is a meme that seems to make sense, but it's not actually all that useful.
Children's stories use their own simplified language that will not prepare you for regular content, so when you start reading real things, you'll have to start at zero anyway.
They will also bore you to hell because you're not 3 years old.

This doesn't only apply to japanese, all media seem to portray people quickly learning any language by reading lots of children's books, then moving on to normal books, even though language learning just doesn't work that way.

>> No.17853597

What do you recommend?
Is brute forcing through "normal content" the only way?
Even then I'd expect somethings to be easier to get into than others

>> No.17853632


>> No.17853637

So take this.

>> No.17853652
File: 24 KB, 864x356, 上京.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anyone know why 東京 is written as 上京 here? Is it some sort of pun implying tokyo is better than kyoto or som other capital/major city or something? I'm confused

>> No.17853654

Get a vocab and grammar base going, all those anons screaming "read more" to people who barely know a few hundred words are stupid. This doesn't mean you should just grind vocab until you feel ready (you will never be ready, the first thing you read will always be hard), but not knowing any words will make reading really tedious even with instant lookups.
After that, yeah, you'll just have to dive in.

What I did was replay JRPGs I've already played in english before.
The first game still was hell (probably because I picked Trails in the Sky), but things were a lot easier after that.
When I later started reading VNs/LNs, the same thing happened: The first few were hard (because I wasn't used to narrative/descriptive text since games are mostly dialogue and game menus), but it went smoothly after that initial hump.

>> No.17853667

上京 doesn't mean Tokyo, it means "going to the capital"
And yes, the capital is "better" than regular cities, because it's the capital.

>> No.17853669

Just. Read.

It will get to you

>> No.17853671

上京 and 東京 are not the same thing.

>> No.17853680
File: 1.43 MB, 1024x768, Rance01_2017-11-04_19-17-32.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Proof that kanji are evil.

>> No.17853726


>> No.17853744

Koreans are still required to learn hanzi in school.

>> No.17853770

I'm more interested in how many. I've been given the impression it's like 100-200 these days.

>> No.17853848

No unique cultures to draw creative inspiration from? No thanks.

>> No.17853922

It is "ぶっころしてやる" right?
I'll fuck you up or beat you up

and another one
"don't screw with me" something like buzakenshiteyaro!
I don't really know how it's said, so could you anons please tell me? another example for it would be "don't mess with me" etc don't mess around

>> No.17853928

>It is "ぶっころしてやる" right?
And the other one is ふざけんな

>> No.17853941

Thank you man, I don't know why, but when I googled it or used google translated it translated into random words so I didn't know what was said correctly

>> No.17853974
File: 10 KB, 97x130, Speech bubble.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Could someone please help me decipher what is scribbled on the right of this speech bubble? It looks like どう考スさも but it doesn't make any sense. Thank you.

>> No.17853977


>> No.17853986

Thank you very much!

>> No.17854007
File: 1.44 MB, 1366x768, Screenshot (89).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I need some assistance deciphering kanji too. I believe this is 貴く but that doesn't make any sense.

>> No.17854010


>> No.17854014

Thank you very much. I didn't know that word.

>> No.17854024

no problem will be eagerly awaiting the next thing you cant read in 10 seconds

>> No.17854038

This nigga...

>> No.17854040

So this is the new meta. Pretending to not able to read some scribbled kanji for a quick translation.

>> No.17854042


>> No.17854050

Surely that would be the case if they just said "HEY GUYS WHAT DOES THIS SAY?". If people say "I think it's x but I think I'm wrong", doesn't that mean they're actually trying?

>> No.17854065


>> No.17854072
File: 45 KB, 1024x576, le kanji.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No translation was given anywhere here, sir

>> No.17854099


>> No.17854104

holy shit
is this the final boss?

>> No.17854134

it's a chink meme character

>> No.17854174

These are some pretty good noodles

But even the chinese use their own mnemonics to memorize this beast.

>> No.17854185

Memorising does not seem to be as much of a problem as writing it in a standart kanji size

>> No.17854188

if you cant read it, it's probably the noodles

>> No.17854209

In fact, what even is a standard square size for writing kanji? I tried to draw the noodles and it went sort of okay, though I suspect I use bigger grid for kanji than Japanese or Chinese do.

>> No.17854302
File: 3.16 MB, 1920x1080, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

My porn game managed to make me feel bad for being a manlet, or maybe I just feel bad at general
thanks for subscribing

>> No.17854350

If it makes you feel any better, you generally live a longer life than taller people.

>> No.17854363
File: 117 KB, 392x469, 1479424951353.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17854510


>> No.17854519

Are there any manga-reader sites that host japanese raws?

>> No.17854575

tabun, shikashi omae wa oshiete wa nai :)

>> No.17854584
File: 57 KB, 412x371, 1272106623771.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>omae wa oshiete wa nai

>> No.17854595

What's so funny about that, faggot?

>> No.17854597

Japanese grammar does not work that way, insulting me won't make it any less wrong

>> No.17854599

you actually hurt my feelings with this
I will apologize for my rude behavior, but you should be a man and explain what I did wrote wrong

>> No.17854605

omae nitotte wo oshieru wa nai
here, this should be correct

>> No.17854608


>> No.17854612
File: 269 KB, 600x443, Chinami expert.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No, that's wrong as well.

>> No.17854614

Why is it wrong?

>> No.17854617

this is correct

>> No.17854631

I don't think anything about this sentence is right.
"Ni totte" does not do whatever you think it does, wo marks a direct object, which makes no sense here the way you used it here and the 'wa' doesn't belong there either.


>> No.17854635

how does には work in this, "especially/particularly you, not teach" is how im seeing it literally

>> No.17854644

Yes, the は here is contrastive , i.e. "I might tell others, but not you". The に is just the regular に

>> No.17854647

(I was not questioning the correctness of >>17854608 but agreeing with it)

>> No.17854652

im guessing the "in order to" explanation is ruled out purely by context?

I actually was reading "in regard to" from the same definition as "in order to" but i guess it also carried the contrastive meaning with it

>> No.17854678

the "in order to" meaning of には only works when it follows a verb and when it's not the "verb には same_verb が" construction

>> No.17854712

Has anyone used RTK vol. 3? How useful are the 1000 additional kanji? Are they still very common? Did you study them immediately after vol. 1?

>> No.17854733

Huge waste of time. You've already got whatever benefit RTK provides if you did volume 1. After that many you should have no problem learning new kanji on your own in the context of words. The selection in RTK3 is pretty random and half the non-jouyou kanji you encounter won't be in it anyway.

>> No.17854763

If you want to learn another 1000 kanji, learn the 人名用-list instead.

RTK3 has tons of religious and botanical kanji, because that's what Heisig liked...and since he's still trying to use a unique name for each kanji, he had to pick some really weird keywords that you'll probably have to look up in an (english) dictionary, even if you're a native english speaker..

>> No.17854846
File: 11 KB, 300x350, 10mm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I doubt there's any more of a standard size than college ruled paper in America. 5mm grid seems to be pretty common for dense/small notes, and I've even seen 4mm. It appears that they often double up to either use 10mm squares for kanji practice, or to leave a column/row between lines for corrections.
This is mostly my impressions so I may be wrong.

>> No.17855064

Is this a common word in anime? Because for some reason I remember it.

>> No.17855092

Truly, Chinese characters are the superior method of writing.

>> No.17855293

This hanzi is the equivalient of writing "nouveau fresche hors d'oeuvres" on your restaurant sign or menu with the most over-the-top flourishes-everywhere Spencerian script font you can find. I'm not Chinese but I can't imagine anyone who is and is also an adult thinks this character is acceptable to use. It's probably comparable to, but worse than, 珈琲.

>> No.17855381

Thanks for this fellas, it took me some good time to get this as I'm very tired but I think I got a decent grasp on how it works.
And also got interested in Leyline because of that cutie.

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