DJT - Daily Japanese Thread #1852

[Anonymous No.]

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
http://djtguide.neocities.org/

Old thread >>17766600

[Anonymous No.]

Is it possible to naturally learn the more obscure grammar patterns not covered in Genki, Tae Kim and so on just through reading and listening without ever actually reading explanations of them?

I mean, natives learned them like that, and people learned Japanese to fluency before the internet, DoJG and HJGP existed, but it just seems sort of impossible to me that one day they would just suddenly become comprehensible to me without me ever reading explanations of them.

I guess I just want some reassurance that it's possible to go from beginner to intermediate to advanced (fluent) without having to read HJGP cover-to-cover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787349
>but it just seems sort of impossible to me that one day they would just suddenly become comprehensible to me without me ever reading explanations of them.
Children don't share your sense of impending doom if you fail something a couple times. Or a couple thousand times. For years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787349
>Is it possible to naturally learn the more obscure grammar patterns not covered in Genki, Tae Kim and so on just through reading and listening without ever actually reading explanations of them?
How do you think natives do it? It's not like they have some special "Japanese Language" gene. There might be really really obscure things that non-natives never learn, but you're not even going to get close to them without focusing on exposure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787349
No, it's not possible.

[Anonymous No.]

It's all going to be ハラショー

[Anonymous No.]

またバクショウ

[Anonymous No.]

The word 告白 makes me want to hack my cock into pieces

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

I DON'T WANNA DO MY REPS TODAY!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
But you have to

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
It's fine to not do them if you watch 6 hours of anime instead

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718

Then don't, it's not a legal obligation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787746
>he didn't read the Anki EULA

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
And you dont want to do them tomorrow or afterwards either, and thats fine. Just dont come to these threads anymore and admit you dont want to learn japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
I used to feel like you, I'm so glad I just dropped spaced repetition altogether

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787772
Whatever, I have the best lawyers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787574
ultimately thats what it means anyway so do it now and be ahead of the curve that when when its really time for you to cock hack you can proudly protrude your pelvis and proclaim your preparedness for the position your now pulverized penis has placed you in

[Anonymous No.]

What the fuck is the first character of the second line?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787896
に my にｇｇあ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787896
ロ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787912
Thank you sir.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787896
ろーぜき

狼藉ってへんかんされるんだけど

たぶんあたしはかけない

[Anonymous No.]

藉の字と籍の字がまぜこぜになってぷー

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788049
And this is why you study radicals

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788049
Do RTK, its somehow pretty fun, at least in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

As a non-native english speakers, some RTK stories and even keywords do not make much sense. Also it feels like some of them really suck ass regardless of your mother tongue.
That being said, I really like this way of learning... Should I drop RTK altogether, keep at it without changing anything or come up with my own stories from now on?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788085
>come up with my own stories from now on
I do this. My autism is not compatible with someone else's mnemonics anyway. Though I do not have stories for all kanji, only for those where they come easily or where the kanji is difficult to remember

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788085
Whenever that happens to me, I dont really bother with the story and just remember the radicals or look up words I dont understand and it works fine.
However, I do write them down once each review and once when I learn them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787773
I don't want to learn Japanese, I just want to know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788085

Visualizations (which is the only thing you should use mnemonics for) should always be your own if possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788164
Yep, I don't use other mnemonics such as catchphrases. I'll try coming up with some of my own and see how I fare

[Anonymous No.]

If only that キノの旅 novel had some fucking seeders on nyaa

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788388
>キノの旅
why? it's in cor...

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
I used to feel like you, I'm so glad I just dropped learning Japanese altogether

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788388
That's why you get into AB
guess I could grab you volumes 1-9 seeing as they're less than 1MB (epub), interested?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788419
If you 'd be so kind, yes. Speaking of AB, what is the go-to method of getting invites nowadays? IRC?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788433
knowing someone who as an account

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788433
Git gud

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788433
https://a.pomf.cat/kwtafl.tar.gz
>Speaking of AB, what is the go-to method of getting invites nowadays
I'm not sure, but most trackers have an AB invite thread for their PUs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788475
Much obliged.

[Anonymous No.]

So how should I go about starting to read and learn words as I do so? Should I just take the words that I don't understand from my reading, use rikaisama to translate them, and then add them to anki? (which would be pretty much every word because I don't know words well)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788535
Do core 2k/6k
I mean really do it, you won't go anywhere without a vocab base. There's no point in remembering "hard"/uncommon words when you don't know the basics

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788403
Fuck. The fuck is wrong with me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788554
I meant I already learned 2000 kanji from the core deck but I need to know words specifically and I leaned a bit too hard on the kanji from the core deck

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a good anki deck for kanji radicals that will work on my phone?

The last anki deck I downloaded to use didn't work properly on phone, the cards didn't show up properly.

I would study through my computer but since I stay more outside than in my house, there's no other way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788792
>I would study through my computer but since I stay more outside than in my house, there's no other way.
Why?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787349
>I mean, natives learned them like that
Do they? I mean, do they really? Do not not get constant corrections from adults and over a decade worth of specific targeted study of their own language in school?

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a way to determine wether a する verb is transitive or intransitive? Jisho and others just show it as する verb, but not more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789052
its irregular

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789052
search example sentences for をXする and がXする and see which it is

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Hi djt. I've got a couple questions:

I'm going to begin reading soon. glancing at a few of the pages of some of the manga I've downloaded, I noticed that it's difficult to read the kanji because my peripheral vision reads the furigana so quickly and autonomously. I feel like I won't be able to practice reading kanji that way. will that significantly hinder my learning progress? I considered just reading manga without furigana but (correct me if I'm wrong), I would assume that manga without furi is typically more challenging grammatically. should I just deal with the furigana until I am skilled enough to read manga that does not have it? or are there grammatically simple mangas that do not have furigana?

also, would it be good to download an english translated version of whichever manga I am reading and refer back to that when I'm stuck on a phrase or sentence? I imagine it's much more reliable than any computer generated translator and I don't wish to bug all y'all constantly when I'm stuck.

thank you for any answers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
>furigana
Too early for you to care about something like that.

>english version
Use the English to test your overall comprehension of a convo, scene or the story, not individual sentences. You have no idea which sentences were translated faithfully or which were twisted in order to not sound retarded in English.

> I don't wish to bug all y'all
Just post your best attempt so it doesn't seem like a translation request and someone will answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789041
I don't understand why people who have learned a language and live on the planet earth have these bizarre ideas about how language learning works that have no connection to anything happening in reality. Were you not capable of understanding your language's grammar before you studied the relevant points in school? Are there native speakers walking around who use unnatural grammar because their parents never corrected them? And remember that dialects are not "incorrect" grammar, they correctly learned the grammar they were exposed to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789041
>over a decade worth of specific targeted study of their own language in school?
Once upon a time (not too long ago actually), education was not universal, yet the common masses still managed to learn their respective languages. Besides, kids are already fluent speakers (just with small vocabularies) before they ever even start school (especially if you think about countries like Finland).

>constant corrections from adults
I'm not sure that this point is valid either. Corrections from adults pretty much exclusively relate to production mistakes, especially pronunciation errors, and are only given in very simple terms ("you should say X not Y"). In the first place, the average native speaker of any language doesn't have the academic knowledge required to actually explain (especially in a way that a child would understand) the grammar and workings of their own language. This is why native English speakers who want to teach English have to go to university and study it at an academic level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
I always have this exact same dilemma, which usually makes me just want to go read something online so I can use rikaichan instead. Probably not the best idea either though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
>furigana
that is not much of an issue, if you don't know the word, reading the kana won't help you
it doesn't detract from the kanji if all you get is a reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
To elaborate on what others have said, until you reach a very high point in the intermediate skill bracket, furigana makes it easier to learn, not harder. It's not like it's cheating or anything, you're just learning how the kanji word is read by exposure to its reading.

>also, would it be good to download an english translated version of whichever manga I am reading and refer back to that when I'm stuck on a phrase or sentence? I imagine it's much more reliable than any computer generated translator and I don't wish to bug all y'all constantly when I'm stuck.
Don't do this. Don't get stuck. Just figure out the possibilities of what something ~might~ mean, then move on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718
One day won't hurt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787327
>Guy A:
あまり無茶しないで！！
>Guy B:
>こんな奴ら
>ひき殺したグレー
>なんだってんだよ

Can somebody help me break that last bit? This is what i've got:

ぐらい
何だ
って
んだよ（言うのだよ？）

And I think the sentence means:

>What do you care if I run over bastards like these?

But I'm not sure if that last んだよ is a 言うんだよ or about who the subject of that 言う would be. Also, is ぐらい何だ an idiomatic expression?

[Anonymous No.]

I have a hard time differentiating the circle and quote thingies on hiragana and katakana.
び and ぴ for example. It's not that i don't know the difference, but in small font they just look the same to me.
Any advice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789751
i use a greasemonkey script to increase only kanji and kana fonts slightly, search for that

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789751
Knowing words and context. Just keep studying. And people never say this around here, but read more :^)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
>I feel like I won't be able to practice reading kanji that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789689
Not commenting on your translation but your breakdown is correct, and that was the hard part.

>Also, is ぐらい何だ an idiomatic expression?
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789447
>>17789450
Go away you fucking morons. Even Krashen expands on the value of grammar study.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790079
Consider reading the conversation you're responding to before posting.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't understand what つもり is doing here. I didn't intend to be this weak to alcohol? Help please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790101
Feel for what つもりなのだ might be doing here based on what you already know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790107
Is it "belief" here? I was convinced that I wasn't weak to alcohol?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790121
Yes. It's conviction of an idea, rather than conviction to undergo an action.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790126
Cool, thanks anon. I completely forgot about that nuance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790121
>>17790126
It has less to do with "belief" and "conviction" and more to do with acting as though it were true.

It can be something the person knows is completely false.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790149
They were acting under that conviction even though they knew it was wrong. It's still a conviction. That's what makes it one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790154
>They were acting under that conviction
There doesn't have to be any conviction whatsoever. I think the word you're looking for is pretense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790181
Conviction does not have to be being convinced yourself. Having conviction can also be acting in such a way as to convince others. The ~tion creates a noun that does not imply any predicate to actually exist; it's a quality, not a binary state.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789052
yeah. context

[Anonymous No.]

How can the kanji 誤 looks so different when "lower cased"? The radical at the bottom right looks like the 天 kanji but when written with more space it doesn't look anything like it...

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790397
>The radical at the bottom right looks like the 天 kanji
It's not. Maybe your fonts are shit, I recall some kanji looking differently when doing anki on my phone.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are H-scenes in VNs, even non-nukige vanilla ones, so damn long? It takes forever to read through them, despite most of the lines being really easy or just "ahh" sounds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790510
I usually skip them after the first few lines. Ain't got no time to be reading that shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790493
Here is how it looks on the google keyboard thingy for Android

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790525
i think that's the chinese font

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790536
Well when I type it becomes the "right" kanji. It should be a Japanese keyboard. The same happens on the app I use on my phone to train the kanjis (obenkyo), when I see the kanji as a small character it's messed up but if I get it big to train how to draw it then it becomes right. Should I change apps? I'm afraid that this will make a bad habit of memorizing wrong kanjis

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790559
the one next to it is showing the chinese variant as well, have you just gotten used to seeing the kanji like that? you're learning chinese instead of japanese for a few kanji (they're not all that different desu but still)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification#Examples_of_language-dependent_glyphs

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ascendtv.kanjifix&hl=en

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790559
From my phone with the same keyboard. What's happening is your phone is displaying kanji with a chinese font, not a japanese one.

[Anonymous No.]

So I stupidly downloaded a deck for genki, on some of the words the audio comes up before I hit enter, how can I change this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790569
>>17790576
Just checked your link and yes it seems to be the case. All my kanjis are in Chinese, what the heck man. I'll try to figure out if I can fix this. If not rip studying with my phone. Also 350 kanjis possible learned slightly wrong. JUST

[Anonymous No.]

When translating koma and doujins what things should I keep the same?
Like -san baka and stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790594
Translate as little of the special stuff as possible. Just do what you want to shit on EOPs, they can take it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790593
A quick workaround would be to set the language to Japanese. That seems to fix it. There are other ways too but I don't know them off the top of my head.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do Japanese abbreviate long titles using only the particles like haganai or totono? That seems so nonsensical and silly to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790594
whatever your target audience wants

if you're translating a business drama for example you would never keep onii-chan referring to an elder male power figure as onii-chan, you would translate the hell out of it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790602
Thank you so much for the help. I will lay it off for now. I've been phoneposting for 2 hours now and it's 5am here. I'll try to fix it when I wake up. But again thank you very much for the help, hopefully I didn't fuck myself too much learning slightly different kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790594
Just "translate" everything to romaji, let the EOPs figure it out on their own

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790594
Whatever you feel is appropriate.
Just know that you're gonna run out of steam eventually and realize how unappreciative the audience you translate for is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790101
don't tell me is pocari sweat

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789409
> I would assume that manga without furi is typically more challenging grammatically.
It depends on the series, there are lots of series that include furigana but have quite challenging grammar and lots of series without furigana where sentences are mostly simple. I recommend some slice-of-life series' originating from seinen magazines. (For instance NEW GAME! and 少女終末旅行 are quite popular right now.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790588
The same way you change any deck. Click the "Cards" button in the deck browser, or click Edit, then Cards while reviewing.

You might also want to read this
https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html#cards-and-templates

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790602
>>17790620

Android defaults to chinese fonts for Kanji.
In older versions you could only change this by setting your whole phone to japanese (or rooting it and manually fixing it), but in newer versions (not sure when exactly they added it), you can override that by adding japanese to your languages in the settings.
It doesn't have to be the main language, it just needs to be in the list.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790101
Isn't alcohol the subject here?
Shouldn't you say "お酒に弱くない", if you want to say that you are strong with alcohol?

>そんなにお酒は弱くないつもりなんですが...
Because alcohol was pretty strong
>少しボーしてっしまっ(た?)
i end up doing *something*

And what is "少しボー"?
Can someone help please?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790735
はdoes not mark the subject.
The subject of the sentence is implied to be herself, alcohol is the topic.

>>17790735
>>And what is "少しボー"?
ぼーっとする

[Anonymous No.]

Does Amane's route in Flyable Heart get good at any point? I'm half-way through and reading it just feels like torture.

What happened to the multi-route mystery? What is this boring piano bullshit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790771
Thanks. I also get reply from japanese guy in the other thread.

-------
Your "お酒に弱くない" is perfectly okay too.
>The thing is, the word 酒 means not just alcohol itself but it could also mean "to drink alcohol beverage."
>3 酒を飲むこと。飲む度合いや飲み方についていう。「酒が強い」「あの人はいい酒だ」
Therefore お酒を(飲むこと)は弱くない works, with は being a topic marker.

ボーっとする means "to lose focus/concentration" by getting drunk, running a fever, being in love, etc.
-------

So the whole translation is
"Sorry. Because i thought that i'm strong with alcohol, i end up spacing out a little."

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790778
its mostly about her brother, if you don't like it just drop it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790735
>Shouldn't you say "お酒に弱くない", if you want to say that you are strong with alcohol?
I know I'm just sperging about semantics but, well, if you want to say you can hold your liquor you say you're お酒に強い, お酒に弱くない doesn't necessarily mean you're good at handling alcohol, just that you're not weak to it.
I get your point but it's still worth stating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790841
That's true. I was just too lazy to type "強い", so i just copypasted and changed "に". That's the only reason.

"お酒に強い" sounds more assertive. And saying "i'm not weak" feels like a double negative to me, for some reason.
And if you are not weak, aren't you strong, in a sense?

[Anonymous No.]

What's
弱みでも握られ or 弱みを握られてる
it's a term I see or different version of it I see.
I don't think it means 'being gripped/held while weak' or 'holding on while weak' or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790854
>"お酒に強い" sounds more assertive.
Well, it is. The way I see it, you're saying not only that you're not weak or even average, rather that compared to the average person you can handle alcohol pretty good. So by extent you're saying that you're better at it than others are.

>And if you are not weak, aren't you strong, in a sense?
Not really. Generally speaking, there's 3 types of "goods and bads" when it comes to this: "good, average, bad" followed by "the best, good, average, bad, the worst" and lastly is just the same as the former one but on a real spectrum, like from 1-100 (with 1 being the worst and 100 being the best) or any other number you want.
But obviously in real life people just say they're either good, bad, or average. Maybe somewhere in between.
So my sperging aside, in short if you say you're not weak with alcohol, you're either average or good with it, and in the latter case maybe you're just being modest or polite, but you aren't necessarily good with it just because you're not bad.

[Anonymous No.]

こんばんはおにいちゃん

たいふうきてる

やばい

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790726
I have this same problem, and I can't really fix it without flashing my phone since I'm using a Xiaomi phone and there's no Japanese available on Miui. At least Anki shows the right fonts with some magic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790881
I understand you analogy, but I think there is a difference between "good/bad" and "weak/strong".
Semantics, it's hard to tell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790870
Would it be "That person is holding onto my weakness" or they're exploiting my weakness?

[Anonymous No.]

あした上陸、６時間で降水量４００ｍｍだって

稲刈りおわってからで本当に良かった

お米不足になったらたいへんなことに

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790892
>but I think there is a difference between "good/bad" and "weak/strong".
Sure, I suppose I let that slip. Good with alcohol implies you handle being drunk well, strong with alcohol might imply you need to drink a lot to get drunk, and vice versa for bad/weak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790870
I cannot go against that kid.
She has my weakness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790870
弱み is the direct object, so that is what is being held. 僕 is also sort of the object because it's a passive sentence, this is what some people call "suffering passive". For now you can think of it logically as "the act of weak point being held is being done on me", although obviously that doesn't totally capture the emotive content it will get you as far as comprehension.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790904
In the original context, "お酒に弱くない" was just a feminine way for her to say that she holds alcohol well.

[Anonymous No.]

>USA
>hot cocoa and marshmallow

これはのみものではないよね？

フェイクだよね

ひっかけもんだいにはひっかからない

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone have any recommendations for improving listening comprehension?
While I can read basic material somewhat comfortably, understanding spoken material is very difficult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790963
Grind anime without subtitles. Try to understand every single sentence.
After around 20 hours of hell it will stop being too hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790970
Fair enough. Time to suffer all over again.

[Anonymous No.]

グーグルせんせいにきいたら

「アメリカではマシュマロをのむ」

ってでてきた

ほんとうなの？いじめ？

[Anonymous No.]

いじめ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790985
>>17790970
Bear in mind this will only work if all or most of the dialogue is stuff you could read comfortably. It doesn't take many new words to throw you completely off track and turn everything into babbly noise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791005
飲んでねーよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791015
It works both ways.
After around 15 hours you will start develop intuition and will be able to guess the meaning of new words based on context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790826
Shortly after I posted that, it got to a more interesting bit, but still... I don't really care about this plotline with Amane's past. Now that I've read the bit that I've read though, it feels like I can't really drop it without seeing the conclusion.

It doesn't help that I'm reading this straight after Yui's route where lots of plot gets revealed which makes this route feel all the more like drawn-out filler. It would've been much better had I done this as my first route.

Really though, this VN is all over the place in quality. Some parts have me reading for hours without even realizing, then other bits I have to force myself through at whatever pace I can manage, sometimes going days without touching it because I just have no interest. I hope whatever I try reading next is more consistent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791021
そうだよね

マシュマロのとけたのって

その

にてるとおもいません？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791062
なあ、お前のいうこを聞こえるもらいたいなら漢字を使ってくれないかな
溶けたマシュマロって何に似てるか

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791038
nothing is concluded until the end of すずの's route, and then the bonus

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791089
Bonus? There's another route after Suzuno's?

Also, by conclusion, I meant finding out why her brother is acting the way he is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791090
>Bonus? There's another route after Suzuno's?
'Die zukunft hat schon begonnen' is unlocked in the menu after hers
Amane's brother acts the way he does out of deference to their mother, but it was my second VN ever so my understand is probably heavily flawed

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791106
Not going to read your spoiler now, but if I get sick of this route and decide I can't be bothered to finish it then I'll read it then.

As for 'Die zukunft hat schon begonnen', how long is that? About the same length as the character routes? Or just something very short?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791116
its very short, just wraps up things. Worth reading if you want めでたしめでたし

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791124
>Worth reading if you want めでたしめでたし
Should I take that to mean Suzuno's route is depressing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791133
Not especially for the MC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791068
かんじわすれた

あたしのかんじるのは

とけたマシュマロのいみがわからない

とけたらマシュマロじゃないよね

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791227
意味ないっしょ、溶けたマシュマロは溶けたマシュマロんよ
コーヒーかココアにマシュマロを足せばマシュマロが溶けてもっとうまくなるという理由っしょ
他に何か

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791254
いぎあり

[Anonymous No.]

Why don't the nips just adopt spaces and so get rid of this alphabet bs

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791265
もっとうまくなるってばよ
ちゃんと聞いてんのか

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791271
とかしたらいけない

たとえば刺身を煮たら刺身じゃないでしょ？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791266
Too late. Switching the alphabet now would mean the next generation wouldn't be able to read anything written before the switch unless it was transcribed into the new system*, and would also necessitate changing business names, road signs, people's names, etc.

Ain't gonna happen. Too much trouble for too little gain. Current system works even if it isn't perfect (or even good). The chance to throw kanji out was when they invented katakana and hiragana, but that chance has been lost for the best part of a millennium.

*Given how much difficulty computers have with telling where one word ends and another begins in Japanese, combined with the multiple possible readings that many words can have, this would mean everything would be have to be transcribed manually, word-by-word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790939
ココア自体が甘いのにそこにマシュマロをぶっこむ意味があるのかね

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791282
本当にわからないのか
そんなに不思議なことじゃないぞ
マシュマロ全体が溶けるじゃなくてちょっとだけ溶けてココアがもっとおいしくなるよ
>たとえば刺身を煮たら刺身じゃないでしょ？
で？その例は関係ないだよ
ココアかコーヒーにマシュマロを足せばまだ同じ飲み物よ、溶けたマシュマロを足したことだけだろう
コーヒーに砂糖などを入ればまだコーヒーだろう、コーヒーないなんて飲み物にならないよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791306
ただでさえゲロ甘いココアにマシュマロなんて入れたら甘ったるくて飲み干せないよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791296
In addition, think of it like trying to propose another spelling reform in English.
Nobody would want to learn to spell the language anew and the next generation wouldn't be able to read anything written the past 200 years. English's retarded spelling is an inconvenience for anyone learning the language and a reform would make it easier for them (and it would make more sense logically even for those who already speak it fluently) but it's just not a good idea and good luck convincing the 500 million+ English speakers worldwide to suddenly relearn a massive amount of written vocabulary.

When it comes to Japanese specifically, even if you're a native speaker and can guess just fine by context, if you force them to write only using the latin alphabet, some words will get harder to tell apart. Like any of the かける or かえる words, and nuance words like 合う/会う/遭う and more I can't even think of at the moment would be completely lost with no way to tell them apart anymore.

It would genuinely be easier to just replace Japanese with a different language (probably Finnish because of its simple pronunciation and spelling rules) than to try to force them to speak the same language in a way that really doesn't mesh well at all. I mean if the next generation won't be able to read anything before they were born then they might as well learn a different language altogether if your goal is to make them write in the latin alphabet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791306
ごめんなさい

ほんとうにわからないの

とけたマシュマロには穢れたかんじがする

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791333
個人的にココアはもう嫌いならマシュマロを入れなくてそもそもココアを飲まないは当たり前だろうよ
大したもんじゃないぞこれ、本当よ

>>17791348
そっか、知るもんかけどな
すれば変なら入れないことだろう

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791371
別にココアは嫌いじゃないよ
ただ、甘い物の上に甘い物をかけるのは受け付けないわ

[Anonymous No.]

Life would be so much easier if the Japanese had got rid of the Chinese kanji and only used the kana.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790963
>listen to nhk easy articles before and after you read them
>watch anime without and then with subtitles
>watch lets plays on youtube or niconico
here's a video of a youtuber that does a lot of lets plays
https://youtu.be/w-RDrWcGn8w
also if you need subs for anime you can find them here
https://kitsunekko.net

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790101
It just means she isn't weak with alcohol, but she gets drunk accidentally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791383
なら受け付けねーよ！！ったく
十人十色などわかるけこの話は意味ねーよ、そんなに甘いものを飲みたくないなら飲まないことって当たり前っしょ
もう無意味なことに十分イライラしてきたので自分を止めてやる

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791338
>probably Finnish

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791399
Life would be so much easier if the English had got rid of "a and the" and only pronounced in the correct alphabetical form.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791411
独り相撲の典型例だな、おつかれさん

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791445
だって…
いやもう知らんわ

[Anonymous No.]

I can't read the handwriting what does the first kanji say？
〆り？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791425
"the" doesn't exist in my dialect

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791464
刈り上げ
undercut

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791480
okay thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791480
Why would you spoonfeed someone with such an easy to read kanji which they could've easily found in 5 seconds through google translate?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787718

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791399
Without the kanji it would've taken you many years to learn to read

[Anonymous No.]

If they wanted they could highly optimize the kanji system so you only need to learn a few hundred at most.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788587
core 6k deck only has 1578 kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791338
How to fix English spelling:

B less prescriptive. Let lite spellings replace bad wuns. Act with gr8 h8ste & oll will B over.

>>17791730
It would be very, very hard to "optimize" it down below 1000.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791472
Ebonics is not a dialect

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791730

Which would render literally everything written in Japanese up to that point unreadable for anyone learning it after that. You speak of an enormous overhaul with an outcome that'd make things worse for everyone, it'd be one of the most catastrophically idiotic decisions in history.

Just learn your kanji and stop daydreaming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791753
That's because Ebonics doesn't exist. What you're thinking of is Late Southern Confederate Anglo-Saxon, which is a separate language from English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791753
I'm not American, let alone black.

"the" is used in ebonics in any case (though with the "th" sound becoming "d")

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791338
>Probably Finnish
You almost had me for a second there

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791764
It doesn't become a d, it moves from a dental-alveolar fricative to a dental non-aspirated affricate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791757
You just have to rewrite all the stuff that's been written up to this point.

I'm not saying people shouldn't learn it now, but if they wanted hypothetically the language doesn't NEED the currently existing kanji system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791774
>dental non-aspirated affricate
Yeah, so a "d".

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791784
No, that would be a dental-alveolar voiced plosive undefined for aspiration.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791781

>You just have to rewrite all the stuff that's been written up to this point

Alright anon, enough shitposting. I'm sure you've got reps to do or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791808
While it sounds ridiculous, most things get rewritten/retyped up on a fairly regular basis.
Think how many editions of tom sawyer there are for example, a new one gets typed up and edited every year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791789
There's no point in saying something if nobody but you understands it. You may as well talk to a brick wall.

"d" is good enough. It doesn't have to be a 100% linguistically accurate representation of the sound. We've established the context as ebonics and everyone knows what ebonics sounds like, so using the letter "d" to represent the sound in question is perfectly sufficient to get the message across.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791824
They use both sounds in the same place and distinguish them, so no, it's not "good enough".

[Anonymous No.]

i dont understand the part of ''花という花、蜜という蜜''

what does it mean

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791818

You know very well the scale between rewriting individual books and rewriting everything written in a language is beyond uncomparable, so stop writing nonsense and get back to studying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791827
Even if that's true, it's still a better means of representing the sound than what you're saying. Nobody but you has any idea what "dental-alveolar voiced plosive undefined for aspiration" means. Even if "d" isn't 100% accurate (as if English spelling is even expected to be 100% phonetic in the first place), at least people can gleam some sense from it without having to go read a bunch of phonetics articles on Wikipedia.

Anyway, I'm stopping here. I only just got unbanned for "off-topic posting" as a result of arguing with someone here a few threads back and would like to avoid getting banned again over something such a meaningless discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791781
Even if you can get a computer algorithm to do it it would probably be impractical to transliterate absolutely everything ever written. What most likely happens is that you get two systems coexisting for a hundred years or so, and of the new one is better and/or promoted enough the old one eventually disappears into history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791846
It's not even close to accurate. Telling people it's a "d" is like telling people that Japanese is related to Chinese. There's a reason to believe that on the surface but it's completely wrong and it's destructive if you actually get people to think that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791851
OK.

[Anonymous No.]

Hi Senpai, I'm trying to get the Core 2k deck setup on AnkiDroid as per instruction here https://djtguide.neocities.org/anki.html but having problems adding the sentance images, can't see the "Hit the 'Cards...' button -> Add {{Sentence-Image}}" bit, have they removed this from the app?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791834
It refers many kinds of flowers and nectar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791876
oh, ok, thanks

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

かんじ　ぬき　で　ぶんしょう　かいてる　けど　わかる？
こうやって　たんご　ごと　に　あいだ　を　あけて　かけば　あるていど　は　いし　の　そつう　が　はかれる　けど、　たぶん　しっている　たんご　の　かず　が　すくない　ひと　は　かんじ　が　ない　と　なおさら　わかりづらい　と　おもう。
Japanese without kanji looks really weird, stupid and intagible

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791995
understands that the true form of language is the speech act

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792026
Doesn't　look　quite　so　bad　if　you　use　Latin　spacing,　but　the　single　character　particles　do　fuck　up　the　aesthetics　quite　a　bit.　The　fact　that　each　character　represents　two　Latin　characters　also　makes　it　so　there's　a　lot　of　short,　two　or　three　character　words　which　doesn't　help　matters　either.

かんじ ぬき で ぶんしょう かいてる けど わかる？
こうやって たんご ごと に あいだ を あけて かけば あるていど は いし の そつう が はかれる けど、 たぶん しっている たんご の かず が すくない ひと は かんじ が ない と なおさら わかりづらい と おもう。

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791995
I like how you used my screenshot. Does that make me the exemplary chad?

Anyways, time to go back to some light reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792078
Hmm, actually, now that I think about it, worse than the huge spaces and short words is the fact that all the characters are the same size.

With Latin characters, the size of each character differs meaning that they can fit together in visually distinctive and pleasant ways, but with kana every character occupies the same amount of space so none of the words look distinctive at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792078
The most difficult part to understand no-kanji sentence is deducing. Advanced learners and of cause native speakers can deduce the meaning from the context, but people who don't know enough words, they don't have any tips to presume the meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792078
also, this is the normal form sentence.
漢字抜きで文章書いてるけどわかる？
こうやって単語ごとに間を空けて書けばある程度は意思の疎通が図れるけど、多分知ってる単語の数が少ない人は漢字がないと尚更わかりづらいと思う。

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792136
Yeah, that looks much more pleasant. I think I was right in >>17792111 in saying that the biggest problem is how none of the words look distinctive in kana. Kanji fixes that problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792096
Not that poster, I made the image. It was the first good enough screenshot of that game that I found. I suppose that makes you the chad. >>/jp/thread/17663879#p17673146

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792143
A sad fact for beginners, but there's a distinct fact that kanji help us to read Japanese smoothly.
It is possible to make a sentence without kanji like this shit>>17792026, but to read that, you need to remember tons of words as well as native speakers and that work is tough as hell, I bet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792136
Your sentence looks very fine.
I wish I could write this naturally, senpai.

[Anonymous No.]

Are there any experienced learners here?
Is it possible for you to write and read effectively like Japanese? How long it will take to reach that level?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792326
That depends on how much work you put in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792279
Thanks, lad
Try hard on learning kanjis and reading for 9 years or so, you'll be able to write sentences like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791730

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791421
I don't know Finnish but it looks like this is making it seem more complicated than it is.

[Anonymous No.]

はああ
働いたくない
漫画を読みたい

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792682
働きたくないって

[Anonymous No.]

>know 1200 words
>still can't understand shit except numbers and some words like びっくりして

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792514
This picture is filled with so much bullshit its always hilarious to read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792694

for my own knowledge, please name said bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792682
働きながら、漫画を読んだらどう？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792689
ありがとう

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792693
read

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792693
Hey at least you don't still struggle with keeping numbers in check.
I almost always mix the pronunciation of 9 and 10 up and I need to pause and think a good second when I hear any number higher than 10 spoken. 三百五十七？Okay, so san was three, byaku is hyaku which is hundred, and...

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792706
漫画が好きことは秘密だ、秘密

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790620
this anon here. Just making an update that I fixed my obenkyo so I can still study on my phone but I can't be bothered to fix the android keyboard. My phone is kind old and I have a 5.1 android but I don't type that much in Japanese anyway so I don't think it will affect me that much. The work around that anon suggested of changing the main language of the phone to japanese works, but I'm not even close to being literate enough in japanese to keep my phone fully in 日本語. Thank you very much for the help.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792706
にのみやきんじろう？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792755
also, I'm currently using the kyokasho font. I'm not sure which one is the best (and I understand that some of it is a matter of preference) but I'm accepting suggestions of better fonts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792744
変態だぞ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792645

I know Finnish and you're correct, you could make a similar chart from any language by taking a handful of words that sound similar to each other and then drawing a bunch of largely arbitrary connections between them, words derived from them, and their various grammatical forms.

The language can definitely get a bit silly, but that particular image is very much intentionally deceptive and not to be taken very seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792693
I'm 900 words in and it's doing a ton for me when I'm reading. I couldn't make anything out of NHK easy a month ago but now I have a pretty good grasp on most articles.

However as of late for some reason I'm trying to overanalyze each kanji in compounds so something simple as 友達 is fucking me over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792773

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792706
ビデ倫に就職すれば？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792785
>>17792721
>>17792724
should have specified i mean listening etc.
i can grasp some NHK easy but when listening i don't get anything, maybe because i'm 90% ankidroning. if I have JP subs on i understand some more because i see the kanji, still it's only a few words per sentence unless it's おはようお兄ちゃん　tier

i hope i'll have more time to read after uni exam week, right now i barely have time to do my daily anki

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a good app like yomichan for android? I wanna read lns at work. I tried googling it for chrome, and it says it's available for android, but I didn't see a way to install it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792973
There's Rikai for Firefox.
I only use firefox on my tablet for this reason. If I want to do anything else I use chrome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792973
>I wanna read lns at work.
If you only want to read LNs instead of websites, use Typhon
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.zorgblub.typhon

[Anonymous No.]

how do you get good at listening?
>listen with no subs
>don't get anything except the most basic words
>listen with JP subs
>don't get enough to actually enjoy the movie or show
>listen with english subs
>rely on them too heavily and not 100% focusing on listening just going aha! when you see and hear a word you just learned, but it isn't really useful

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793013
>- Kanji entries display the Heisig frame number so that you know if you learned a kanji or not (surprisingly useful if you used the excellent remembering the kanji book)
>excellent remembering the kanji book

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793047
At the beginner stage you can't expect to enjoy native material at a 1:1 rate, you need training wheels. Either go for graded listening practice material, or watch native material by pausing every sentence and replaying it over and over until you get it before you continue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793050
I agree, it really is excellent at teaching you how to remember (and write) kanji.
Sadly, too many people think it's a book teaching japanese, so it gets shit on for being bad at something it doesn't event try to do.

[Anonymous No.]

Guys I broke my phone and lost all my anki progress what do I do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793137
log into your account on your PC and continue where you left off

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793137
Travel back in time and use the Sync functionality

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787327
Is the Duolingo Japanese course any good?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793172

[Anonymous No.]

>>17792026
>>17792078
To be fair, no one spaces Japanese sentences like that. When spacing is used by natives, it takes into account the agglutinating nature of Japanese, so it is more of a Korean style spacing.

かんじぬきで　ぶんしょう　かいてるけど　わかる？
こうやって　いちおうに　たんごの　あいだを　あけてかけば　あるていどは　いしの　そつうが　はかれるけど、　たぶん　しっている　たんごの　かずが　すくないひとは　かんじが　ないと　なおさら　わかりづらいと　おもう。

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793218
top kek

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793218
>hes gonna pick insane
チンピラ発見

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790576
YO HOL up on my browser that word is showing this word >>17790397
up like >>17790525

does that mean my chrome is showing chinese font and if so how do i fix it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793324
Uninstall the Chinese fonts altogether. There is no reason you would ever need them and they look ugly as fuck anyways because the Chinese government had them matched to handwriting as much as possible, destroying much of the printed aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793346
how do I do that? I'm not finding anything related on japanese characters showing up as chinese, it's mostly random people who are having english characters showing as chink text etc. on google

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793401
I said that in jest. Advanced Font Settings for Chrome will do the trick, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793451
thanks i found it via google on reddit just a minute or two ago

i like this font a lot whatever it shows for english is a lot comfier than times new roman, and kanji instantly look so much cleaner and japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793298
僕だけはチンピラというの存在を知らなかった！？すっげー

[Anonymous No.]

when does the core set become functional? i'm 1200 words in and it's just now starting to show words like りんご.　when do i have enough words to start reading はなひら？ i don't even know the names of all the fruits or what kissing is in japanese, but i sure as hell know lots of english words in 片仮名

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793742
Start reading it right now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793742
>but i sure as hell know lots of english words in 片仮名
>english words

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793742
Core is about newspapers iirc. The best way to learn functional words that are relevant to what you want to reas is to just start mining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793742
おにいちゃんおなかすいた

りんごたべたい

[Anonymous No.]

たいふうのなかで

おっきなあおいかさ

ぬすむゆめみた

こわかった

[Anonymous No.]

>Reading a Very Long VN at this daily pace.

How boned am I?

[Anonymous No.]

Is it just me, or are the Kanzen Master N2 reading questions harder than the actual test?
I feel like the questions are intentionally obtuse so that you follow their brand of solving it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793810
Or maybe I'm just still できないing, who knows.

[Anonymous No.]

きのう少女終末旅行よんでたおにいちゃんどこ？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793794
what's this ? name please

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791425
articles are fucking easy and i will never understand how foreigners always seem to fuck them up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793862
Counts characters. Download file in pic related, change filetype to .html, and download Clipboard Inserter addon to use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793834
ここ。どうしたの？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793906
thanks anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793915
さいしょのほうで

のんでたものはなに？

[Anonymous No.]

Any tips on getting motivation?
I'm feeling really stupid right now since I decided that I wanted to free some space on my phone and ended up deleting my anki info without sincronizing first.
I lost half of my progress because of that. ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793974
質問はよくわからない

[Anonymous No.]

How do you call someone a fag in Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794014
誰かFAG

According to Google

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794014
i, too, am 12 years old and would like to know this

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794014
きさま

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794014
オタでいいんじゃない？

たいていほめてないから

[Anonymous No.]

Can the phonetics autist please answer. Is ずっと generally pronounced as something like ずーっと (even when the idea is to say ずっと), or am I bad at comprehension?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794043
Are you asking what the っ does? It's a glottal stop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794014
i dont think you need to make more enemies

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794062
It sounds longer than I'd expect it to sound based on spelling. The spelling suggests three morae but I perceive it as four.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787327
How far along the vocabulary roller coaster are you and how accurately does pic related reflect your mindset. Share your experiences, please.


I'm at around 8 thousand mature recognition vocab cards in Anki and during reading now I find myself double checking words more often than before.
Earlier when I was aware of only maybe one to two readings for the kanji, while reading I found myself not thinking all that much about vocab but now, with an awareness of far more readings for the same kanji I'm frequently second guessing myself and double checking to be sure a word is pronounced a certain way. This despite most of the time reading the word correctly upon initially seeing it.
There has definitely been a drop in confidence while becoming less ignorant about the language. Perhaps this time next year the confidence will be on the up slope again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
I'm only around 1000 mature, and today when I opened anki, I fucked up the first word in my mining deck, a word that I'd fucked up hundreds of times before, and I mistook it for a word that it doesn't look anything like. I'm not gonna make it, boys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118

You do read, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
My sense of accomplishment as been a straight positive slope.
I probably know around 8-9k words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
I have 16.5K words in Anki and can pretty easily read most modern novels without a dictionary. There's an unfamiliar word occasionally but it's not much different from reading someone like Cormac McCarthy in English.

But trying to read the famous 1920s short story 藪の中 made me realize I am still a retarded beginner.
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000879/files/179_15255.html
>縹
>蘇芳
>牟子
>萩重
>箙
>征矢

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
Downward slope, no stats cuz no Anki. I read densely written nonfiction for practice so I'm pretty much fucked, that stuff is impossible to breeze through. LN-tier fiction feels really easy though, but it's not compelling so I am not interested (anymore).

[Anonymous No.]

does anybody know any good let's play youtubers?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
Vacab learning was getting tougher and tougher since my vacab size exceed 20000.
If you reach at this level, there's no problem on daily life in Japan, but therefore, it really annoying to see some few intangible words from novels or newspapers.
There're loads of words I don't understand, this fact irritates me a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794178
I guess it's just never gonna stop happening. That's fucked up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
I'm probably at 15000-20000, but I stopped using Anki months ago. I can read most things comfortably as long as it's not dense, jargon-heavy stuff, but depending on the content I might still make use of a J-J dictionary because I'm a bit of a perfectionist and avoid glossing over unknown words or guessing them from the context. I still watch anime with subtitles for the same reason and also because my listening comprehension is shit; there are many shows which I could watch unsubbed without any problems, but I'd rather not have to pause and rewind every time there's a specific word I don't know or recognize.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794189
I still can't watch English language content unsubbed because I don't understand spoken English despite being otherwise fluent. I think if you don't practice that it will never come to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
8700~ matures here, read every day
I don't give a shit about vocab, you either know it(exactly how its used) or you don't
its grammar that will always torment me, slowing me down, tripping me up, even if i know all the pieces involved.

[Anonymous No.]

How do you guys practice writing?
I think writing correctly and naturally is the most difficult part in Japanese, might be impossible to write something as well as native speakers.
仕事では日本語の文章を書くことが多いけど、それは大抵同じような内容のものを繰り返すだけだし、日常では書く機会があまりない。
皆はどうやって勉強してるの？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17787349
You can get a feel just through constant and varied exposure, but it's always nice to systematise that knowledge into a manner you can articulate to yourself. And some constructions tend not to appear in English references in any case, like the ての conjunction, relating a verb to a noun while indicating the verb is necessary to the noun's existence. You can get the general idea from context but understanding the exact nuance is always helpful.

It's also gratifying to encounter a new construction, make an intelligent guess at its meaning, then later discover that your grasp of grammar had advanced to the point that your guess was, in fact, correct.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794225
書くのは勉強しないけど勉強すればLANG-8とか使ってみる

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794225
だが我が僕が終焉＜ラグナロク＞してしまったようだな・・・クッ・・・鎮まれ第三の黒瞳＜パープルヘイズ＞よ・・・

[Anonymous No.]

>>17788085
As someone who has been all the way through RTK, I'd advise to just drop the "stories" entirely and just use meaningful keywords in your native tongue. It also help to double-check that you are interpreting the keyword as the right part of speech so you don't end up having to shoehorn extra meanings unnecessarily onto a character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789052
This is where good knowledge of kanji comes in handy. If you can determine that a Chinese compound has a verb->noun type of construction (ex.: 入手、着席、殺人 where 入, 着, and 殺 all function as transitive verbs within the compound, and 手, 席, and 人as nouns), then transitivity is strongly implied in the larger sentence as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794225
>日常では書く機会があまりない
I don't live there and have no plans to. Nor friends that even speak english.
Zero reasons to learn how

[Anonymous No.]

>>17789450
>Once upon a time (not too long ago actually), education was not universal, yet the common masses still managed to learn their respective languages.

The thing about that it that it tended to result in massive diglossia, to say nothing of the huge chasm between spoken and written forms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17790559
Yeah, those are defintely Chinese-style characters. The はね on the seventh stroke of 新 is a dead giveaway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794247
lang8は添削サービスとして利用するなら便利だけど、勉強にはならない気がする

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791296
They's end up like the poor Vietnamese, cut off from their own literary corpus. It would be a cultural tragedy.

Couple that with the absurd preponderance of homonymous compounds from Chinese, and it would still be necessary to gloss huge amounts of text with kanji to disambiguate it.

Then consider that kanji are integrated into Japanese to an extent they never were in Korean or Vietnamese. It would be an utter disaster.

[Anonymous No.]

Google IME handwritten recognition is garbage. If you have need for handwritten recognition, don't install Google IME.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794323
推敲代行と

にほんごべんきょうは

べつだよね

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791338
>合う/会う/遭う

These are all cognates anyway, so the 同訓意義-types would not be a huge problem, although a lot of nuance would be lost, especially when characters are chosen specifically for that nuance.

Ex.:
写真を撮る
写真を取る
写真を盗る

All "syasin wo toru", but very, very different in meaning.

The real bastardry is in the Sino-Jap vocabulary. My dictionary lists 16 different entries for the reading しょうしょう, most are -たりadjectival verbs, so they can't even be disambiguated as different parts of speech as can most homonyms in English. Romanised Japanese of any sophistication would be more footnote than text.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794156
There is always that one smarty who doesn't bother reading the post he responds to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791834
The nounというnoun construction is use to indicate all members belonging to a class, and also as simple emphasis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794166
Don't beat yourself up. Anything from the early-modern era is particularly difficult to read, since there was a marked tendency to use all kinds of obscure vocab with furigana so people could actually read it. I'm a kanji geek, and even I had to look up 縹.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794330
>Couple that with the absurd preponderance of homonymous compounds from Chinese, and it would still be necessary to gloss huge amounts of text with kanji to disambiguate it.
I dunno about that. People manage to communicate verbally just fine and you have no kanji to disambiguate homophones in that case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794378
It's different when it comes to the written word. Many expressions and words are never used in speech. I read that Korean has been facing a similar struggle ever since they abolished the use of Chinese characters, perhaps as a result of which so few people in Korea are interested in their past in concrete terms since it is so difficult to study Korean history in hangul only, for example. But I don't know Korean, it's just something I read in a Japanese newspaper.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794378
Yes, verbally. A huge amount of vocabulary occurs *only* in written language for that exact reason: you can use all kinds of evocative, flowery, and subtle words in written language that would require a huge amount of explicit disambiguation in spoken language. This is actually the single, biggest reason for the massive gap that exists between written and spoken Jap. There is nothing like it in the English-speaker's experience.

しょうしょうたるNOUN

There, what'd I write? I modifed a noun, but with what?

照照
悄悄
晶晶
蕭蕭
彰彰
瀟瀟
鏘鏘

All adjectives, all the same part of speech. You can use these terms to great and beautiful effect in writing, but in spoken language? Forget it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794416
ちゅるちゅるとうどん

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794416
Isn't that たる thing itself obsolete in speech? (even though everyone understands it)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794403
>>17794416
You're failing to take into account that people can still understand when literary works are adapted into audio and audiovisual mediums. How to Japanese people manage to understand audio books, if what you're saying is true?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794403
Korean has the same problem, yeah, but not to the same extent, since Korean is phonetically much richer than Jap. Jap no longer even makes distinctions between クヮン (冠) and カム (勘) and カン (幹), all of which are "kan" in modern Jap, but they can be maintained in Korean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794427
>adapted

There's the key word. You can't just read aloud stuff like that with the expectation that people will understand it. Such things are *heavily* edited to get around that.

The original work and its visual or oral adaptation are but distant cousins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794424
That just happened to be the example I chose, but it isn't entirely obsolete. 堂々たる still appears in its 連体形, as does the more common 聖なる.

But people still understand it in writing, even if they don't use it productively. We know terms like "thee" and "thine", but only Fedora Lords would use it in speech.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794439
I could understand with anime, TV shows and movies (which is specifically why I didn't mention them), but with audio books? Are you sure?

Just a single example is all I ask as evidence. If you can provide one, I'll accept that I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794351
同訓意義->同訓異義
FTFM

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794448
I would have thought that the sheer number of homonyms would have made the point, but:

俯仰して両間の万物を察するに、其の怱忙活潑なる、...

The noun 怱忙 (そうぼうー) I could not even type in; I had to use handwriting input.

The reading そうぼう has about 15 entries in my dictionary, and they're all nouns too. You think even natives would get that if this were just read aloud?

All that language would become essentially unusable in a completely romanised script.

[Anonymous No.]

>75% overall true retention
>~50% retention for mature cards
help

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794475
What is the source of this text and where it the evidence that it is altered in audio book format?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794488
Dude, I don't know if it even *exists* in audio book format, and it probably doesn't. That's the point: it does not lend itself to such a format, because without the kanji to disambiguate, it would be incomprehensible. There is simply no phenomenon even remotely analaguous in English. We have relatively few homonyms, and even then, they can usually be disambiguated by context or as different parts of speech. When a single pronunciation can refer to more than a dozen different concepts, all the same part of speech, how could even the most educated listener know which is which?

The only way you'll ever believe me is if you go show that text to a native speaker and ask them if they would have known that そうぼう was 怱忙 without seeing the characters. And trust me: they would not. Hell, most not even recognise the *character* 怱.

The source text is 料理仙郷 第一講 by 山県悌三郎, if you're curious.

[Anonymous No.]

Just got to the point in core where it starts being a shit-ton of boring political words that I'll never have enough interest in to actually learn, maybe I'll switch to 100% mining. The only way I'm ever gone learn this shit is if it becomes relevant in something I'm reading, I feel like, otherwise I can't possibly work up an interest in 選挙.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794517
The muthufuckin' 選挙 gets a lot less interesting when you just wish that the fucking loudspeaker vans would just SHUT THE HELL UP. They go until around 8:00pm, it seems, every bloody night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794508
>Dude, I don't know if it even *exists* in audio book format, and it probably doesn't.
Then why post it? I asked for proof that audio books are, to quote your exact words, "*heavily* edited".

The fact that you won't provide even a single example as evidence for this statement suggests that you don't actually know if they are edited and have never actually listened to one and compared it with its source material. Even if you are right, which you may well be, you shouldn't make such bold, definitive statements about something which you don't actually know to be true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794525
I've shown how it would be essentially impossible by giving a specific example, as you requested. It should be obvious from the information I've given about the ridiculous number of homonyms and the near-impossibility of disambiguating them in most circumstances. I pointed to the immense gap between spoken amd written language as further proof of this.

So: either show it to a native, as I've already suggested and get their opinions, since you won't take my word for it, or show me how *you* would edit that passage to make clear that the そうぼう heard by the reader is understood as 怱忙, and not one of its fifteen homonyms which are also nouns.

You insist it can be done, so show me how you would do it, please.

Finally, I did not say that audio books *are* heavily edited, I said they would *have* to be heavily edited, such as in cases like this one, in which are used terms largely confined to literary use *because* of the difficulty associated with their disambiguation.

Sino-Japanese terms like 怱忙 would either require an explanation each time they are used or -- more likely -- they would simply substitute a more common term that roughly corresponds to its meaning. But by doing so, you lose the original flavour and nuance. You'd have a whole generation that can only read the Cliffs Notes of Hamlet, and couldn't parse the original to save their lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794583
>I've shown how it would be essentially impossible by giving a specific example, as you requested.
It's not what I requested.

>So: either show it to a native, as I've already suggested and get their opinions, since you won't take my word for it, or show me how *you* would edit that passage to make clear that the そうぼう heard by the reader is understood as 怱忙, and not one of its fifteen homonyms which are also nouns.
You are the one making the claims here. The burden of proof is on you.

>Finally, I did not say that audio books *are* heavily edited, I said they would *have* to be heavily edited
Why would you tell such an easily disprovable lie?
>Such things are *heavily* edited to get around that.
Well, would you look at that. There it is - *are*. Word for word, "are heavily edited", the exact thing you claim not to have said.

Look, I'm not even saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying don't present things as facts if you don't know yourself that they are. It's okay to make reasoned judgements, so long as you make it clear that that's what you're doing.

Anyway, it looks like you don't have any examples to present so I'm not interested in continuing this any further. I'm off to go read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17791751
>It would be very, very hard to "optimize" it down below 1000.
According to whom? An anonymous poster in a primarily English speaking general meant for learning Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794618
You are asking me to prove a negative, which is nearly impossible.

*You* have asserted that a native would understand the passage if spoken aloud, without access to the source text. *You* are the one who has made an assertion and refuses to back it up with even a shred of evidence. The burden is not upon me to disprove your claim, yet I've still made multiple arguments supported by evidence.

For the last time: most Japanese do not even *know* the word 怱忙, or even the first character with which it is written. But, a reasonably educated person who reads the text would see the 心 radical in the first character and know it has to do with emotion and mental state, recognise 忙 as いそがしい and conclude -- correctly -- that the compound means "business" or "harriedness" and they would be right.

They would not even know the term when spoken, but they could use their knowledge of the characters to make an educated guess about the term when written.

You are wrong. I've led you to water; if you refuse to drink it, that's on you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794118
10k right now. I feel like I want about 20k to be comfortable

[Anonymous No.]

Do you guys say the English equivalent for jap words when talking in English.

Like comics, big bro, idiot as opposed to doujin/koma, oniisan, baka/aho.

I mean I used to say the japanese words however now I don't know what things that people who don't know japanese are familiar with.
Like 姫抱っこ、ちょっと男子、合体 and so on, since I don't really read translated stuff anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

女装したら翻訳とか上手くなる？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794651
Dude he's not even saying you're wrong. The problem is you said audiobooks are heavily edited so he asked you to give a real example from an audiobook and not from something that hasn't even been adapted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794674
物は試し、やってみろ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794690
My claim was simply this: that any attempt to adapt into an audiobook compositions not written primarily in colloquial Japanese would require heavy editing or copious notes to be comprehensible to the average Japanese media consumer. We got on this whole topic when some newbie suggested jettisoning the entire Japanese orthography in favour of romaji. I (and several others, as well) pointed out that this would be a disastrous, utterly unworkable idea, then I gave an admittedly older example of something that would suffer from such a problem. Hell, even my example is only about one hundred years old.

There is no bloody way that the language in my example could be properly understood in the spoken form; that is the main reason for the bifurcation between written and spoken Japanese. That composition was only intended to be read, not recorded, and that freed the author to use a broader variety of language that could only be reliably understood in its written form. All such language would become completely unusable if kanji were abolished in favour of latin characters.

I work with a woman who teaches classical Japanese. We've had this exact conversation before, and she very much agrees. I know whereof I speak.

[Anonymous No.]

What does カンジメ means? I'm getting some weird harvest shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794848
it's ヅ, not ジ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794878
I've been outplayed by japanese yet again.
Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793070
It goes out of its way to try to trick people into thinking they're doing something useful for learning Japanese. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794645
According to the earth is round and too much salt will kill any human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794848
カンヅメって

あっしゅくされたものなの？

[Anonymous No.]

I feel like a failure every-time I get the card was a leech notice

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794900
Some of us can read Jap without needing rikaisama, character-recognition algorithms and real-time dictionaries. We use our naked eyes, without the need for permanent crutches.

Sorry you lack the attention span to properly exploit an excellent learning tool, bruh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794930
time to start making up stories for them and see that popup less often

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794955
>Some of us can read Jap without needing rikaisama, character-recognition algorithms and real-time dictionaries.
Yeah. Those are the people that already know Japanese. By reading. RTK doesn't teach you how to read. You cannot read with mnemonics and key words. You have to know actual Japanese words.

>We use our naked eyes, without the need for permanent crutches.
You don't know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794958
RTK is one tool amongst many, and a very useful one when combined with other learning resources. RTK is intended to create a good, basic familiarity with the most common characters, such they that can be meaningfully interpreted in previously unseen contexts and compounds. Used properly, alongside vocabulary and grammar-building exercises, it can drastically improve retention, recall, and understanding. He main problem is that almost no one makes it all the way through because the payoff is not immediate. Most people don't even realize there's a second volume.

>You don't know Japanese.

Why do you say that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794978
If you knew Japanese you wouldn't think that RTK teaches you how to read. Read more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794930
You do read, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>鶏小屋を捜索するが――
Ah, yes, chicken-small-roof, (random kana), search-cord, (more random kana). Makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794979
Learning to recognize the characters that are used to write words IS learning to read. Would you consider learning the Cyrillic alphabet a step toward learning to read Russian? Most would. The character set just happens to be much, much larger in the case of Japanese.

I read plenty, and in no small part because I don't need to stop to look up unfamiliar characters every thirty seconds. And I don't need a book in electronic form either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794998
http://vocaroo.com/?upload
You should be able to read this.

[Anonymous No.]

>If you make it through this chapter smoothly, the worst will be behind you and
you should have nothing more to fear the rest of the way.

TFW learning kanji is not hard task alone, its only difficulty stems from problems with one's motivation
acknowledging that learning Japanese is doable and you won't have to spend a decade on it is a true redpill in lingo world

[Anonymous No.]

could someone who actually speaks some Japanese assess by skimming through this video how much study would be require to understand it? in other words how demanding of a content is it for a Japanese learner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrCxVz83908

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795021
Sounds like normal Japanese to me. You'll have to learn Japanese, but if you're familiar with the subject matter, you will make do with relatively incomplete Japanese as long as you know the necessary words and grammar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794980
Not nip native stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795030
What do you read if it's not for natives? Graded readers are the only thing I can think of that would count. Those would be fine, though.

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqqHz85L0-E

if you want quality content you need to shill this guy, he has learned Japanese to fluent level with AJATT method and is willing to make much more videos

[Anonymous No.]

ゆーのう？っていうえいごにいらっとする

なにがゆーのう？なの

[Anonymous No.]

>>17793172
i think it's good side practices but you need to do other stuff you can't learn with duolingo alone but it can kick start it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795021
It would be very impressive if you could understand it after 2 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795071
are you fucking serious m8

[Anonymous No.]

>>17794955
The only thing I can read without all of the above is pre-war literature with massive amounts of furigana on Aozora.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795006
Sorry, this is taking forever. On an iPad, and the fucking typhoon is screwing with the wireless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795035
I thought you meant do you read as in can you read English as in some clever remark at how stupid I'm being, I'm just grinding out anki and genki right now

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795121
The earlier you start reading the more you learn from Anki and Genki, and the more you know where your weak spots are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795006
There:

https://vocaroo.com/i/s01xmWJTutlv

What's this from, anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795079
That's cool. What do you like? I have the Aozora app on my iPad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795125
>https://vocaroo.com/i/s01xmWJTutlv
とらドラ. Yeesh. Read the filename, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795125
I want to be impressed but your accent is making it hard to pick out the right consonants and your prosody is very unnatural.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795143
I tend not to read aloud very much. I'm sure I sound pretty weird, since I never read light novels and such, mostly older stuff and kanbun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795155
How the fuck would you read kanbun with RTK?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795128
Began reading Natsume Soseki's Kokoro yesterday, looked "I Am a Cat" as well. Maybe it's just Soseki, but I find his language very clear in itself in both of these works, which I did not expect as I thought everyone wrote in a different dialect at the time. My fear is gone, but I've decided to finish the VN I'm playing through first, so it'll be some time before I can seriously comment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795168
>looked
*looked at

Yeesh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795125
>かい↑せい↓
>うそっぱ↑ちだ

not a native but these intonations sounded weird

I like your voice though

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795157
I'm not sure what you mean. I went through both volumes of RTK ages ago, and it formed a good basis for later study. Many of the kanji compounds I encounter in older kanbun don't even have entries in Japanese dictionaries, but with a good background and knowledge of the individual characters, they can still be understood.

RTK is just the first step of many. And since no one ever seems to continue on to the second volume, no one ever gets why it's a time-efficent method. Anything can be brute-forced, given enough time, but a little structure can greatly reduce the time necessary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795125
I think this is the first time I see someone actually post a vocaroo after being prompted to. Congrats.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795182
Not even RTK diehards recommend RTK2. Though that might be part of the problem with the RTK community. I have nothing against kanji study in general or even RTK in particular if you've already used it. There are just so many better resources of the same kind, and the RTK community is such a honeypot of bad ideas, that RTK is like a newbie trap.

By the way dude you're an absolute legend for actually posting a vocaroo after being prompted. Respect.

>>17795184
Second time here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795174
Damn. Thanks!

I mean that. I hate the way I sound to myself, but then again, most people do.

But yeah, I have no doubt my cadence is bizarre. Reading silently for comprehension and reading aloud are very different things, and I never do the latter. Everyone knows what a 2DK is, but when I saw the word, I thought "ツーディーケー？にディーケー?" I'd only ever read it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795184
People get prompted then bugger off without responding a lot?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795187
Oh, and thanks for the praise.

It's been fun chatting but there's an all-you-can-eat 焼肉バイキング with my name on it. I'll be back in a few hours. Cheers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795190
にでぃーけーだとおもうよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795193
When you get back can you describe how you did your "later study"?

I'm also studying kanji but I'm pretty sure what I'm doing counts as "brute-force."

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795207
Just about to leave, but this is my bookshelf right now. Studying for 漢字一級, hence all the kanji stuff.

The Dictionary of *** Japanese Grammar books are excellent, but I tend to use the スーパー大辞林, the 明鏡国語辞典, and the 漢字源 now, since there's a lot of grammar even they don't cover.

I used the Genki series texts a long time ago and thought thwy were good. Not into manga and such, but I play all my vidya in Japanese, and read a lot through the Aozora app, 酒蟲 and 學問のすすめ most recently.

I guess my recommendations would be determined by what you want to do and where you are in your studies right now.

I'll be back in a few hours. Cheers, mate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795255
Gah, 漢字一級 ->漢検一級. I'm off to meat land.

[Anonymous No.]

I've done about 2100 cards from the core deck and new cards at this point look very similar to old cards. I'm considering dropping the core deck at this point and beginning mining but would this be advisable?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795272
Starting a mining deck is always a good idea, because you learn words relevant to what you want to read instead of the most frequent words from the Asahi Shinbun archive(unless you want to read old newspapers, I guess?), but saying
>new cards at this point look very similar to old cards
is like a prime example of >>17794118

[Anonymous No.]

つぎのＪＬＰＴいつ？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795337
First weekend of december, but the deadline for registering is already over.

[Anonymous No.]

ああ～ シャワーを浴びてまた生きとるやん

[Anonymous No.]

The average Japanese knows the name of 500 different species of dragonfly. Do you have an insect deck?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795472
The average Japanese person also wears a shirt that reads DIARRHOEA and doesn't know what it means.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795472
あめりかも

サソリとかすきそうじゃん

ザリガニとかたべそうだし

[Anonymous No.]

遼東の豕

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795307
>is like a prime example of >>17794118
No, that's a confidence issue, not an issue of words appearing similar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795488
I once saw at a supermarket a boy of about four years wearing a t-shirt that read: "Let's make out!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795472

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795507
That's a neat idiom.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795544
Did you?

[Anonymous No.]

きょうは

せんきょなんだって

せんきょってなんだろ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795577
I did. About three weeks ago. ドンキホーテで.

One of my other favourites was a very obese, middle-aged woman wearing a too-tight shirt which read: "I want a lot a boyfriend".

To eat, I surmised.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795590
>To eat, I surmised.
草

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795590
>ドンキホーテ
Don Quijote is great but I don't like how they change ramen and soba assortment every week. また、ＵＦＯビッグわさマヨ食べたいが、売ってない.

[Anonymous No.]

Why does Japanese dialogue have to be formatted like it is? Half the time, I can't tell who's talking. I have to reread conversations until I figure out from context, especially when characters randomly start referring to themselves with their own name when they've never done that before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795646
I never noticed since I almost never buy ramen and soba there. I always found their weakest point to be the *lack* of variety in their prepared foods. Always the same stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795590
>One of my other favourites was a very obese, middle-aged woman wearing a too-tight shirt which read: "I want a lot a boyfriend".
she was still hungry

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795688
I noticed I actually mistyped that. It read: "I want a lot *of* boyfriend", which had me trying not to giggle out loud.

She had this I-will-kill-you-all perma-scowl on her face, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795660
Interesting. I'm guessing it depends on the store.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795710
My local one is really good for pre-packaged and imported goods, but prepared stuff like sushi, bentos, salads, etc. are almost always the same stuff every day. Only on special holidays do the offerings change somewhat.

[Anonymous No.]

Does anybody know where I can get a Remembering The Kanji 2 4th edition pdf. there doesn't seem to be one in the COR

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795847
This link seems to work:

https://ja.scribd.com/doc/31809416/Remembering-the-Kanji-Volume-2

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795847
Why would go through the second book?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795862
that's the first edition unfortunately

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795866
That's where the pronunciation patterns that exist because of the phonetic elements in 形声字 are grouped together in logical ways that hugely accelerate the acquisition of their on-yomi.

The second volume is where the first one finally pays off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795878
Oh.

Sorry. Is the fourth edition that much better? I think I actually have a physical copy of that edition (don't ask how I remember that it's the 4th) around here, but I can't go grab it now since the wife is sleeping.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795866
Why would you go through the first book?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795880
Just use KKLC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795889
Your wife is based if you're afraid to meddle with RTK while she's home. She must be a real alpha woman who doesn't tolerate isolated kanji study in her household.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795905
It's just 10:30pm here, and she has to work tomorrow, and the closet that contains the box of books in which it lies is in the bedroom.

[Anonymous No.]

いまからたいふう

ねてるあいだに

おうちがこわれたらどうしよう

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795993
しっかりしてね。私も颱風進路に居て心配しない。

[Anonymous No.]

Are the words that come after the 2k in the Core 2k/6k easier or is it me? They seem like only new combinations of kanjis instead of new ones. I know most Japanese words are combinations but could it be that I know a good amount of kanjis by now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17796038
>They seem like only new combinations of kanjis instead of new ones
They are, for a while. It takes some time but eventually you come across new kanji.
I'm about 4000 words in and I've started seeing way more unique kanji in each session now.

[Anonymous No.]

Does someone know any cool or funny podcasts which can be downloaded without itunes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17796103
Google it. I found a couple that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17796120
What's the point of this thread then? Save me some time and toss a couple of links.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17796184
>What's the point of this thread then?
Swinging your penis in front of those who know less japanese than you. What else can it be?

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a way to easily restart Google IME when it locks up without restarting your PC?

[Anonymous No.]

https://twitter.com/kimchi314/status/922114939371716608
Quick, someone scrape Tae Kim's forum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17796103
I don't know if podcasts aren't popular over there or if I'm not looking in the right places, but I can't find very many either. Of the one's I've found that I like 二次元妻帯者 even though I don't watch much anime anymore, which is their main focus. I think you'd probably have more luck just searching for radio shows rather than podcasts specifically.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a list for all onomotopoeia in manga? I can buess them half the time but might get some mixed up

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797276

どうぞ～

http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797288
wow thanks

[Anonymous No.]

how do you pronounce things like

。。。ッ
or something?
I assumed it was a gulp or slight sound

[Anonymous No.]

[bottom-right panel]

>別に怖くないじゃない

Literal: "Not particularly not-not scary"
Fluid: "That's not scary."

So she's afraid and trying not to show it. Do I have the right of it? The double/triple negative throws me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797486
Pretty much.
別に怖くない is the heart of the sentence, じゃない is just a rhetorical question slapped onto the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797486
It looks like your two different misunderstandings in the literal translation cancelled out and gave you the right meaning. 別に does not negate. じゃない also does not negate in this case (look it up in HJGP).

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797537
It's not rhetorical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797550
I don't know what its officially called honestly. I picked up じゃない and its uses through reading.
I just refer to it as being rhetorical since its not literal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797564
What it is semantically is a tag question, and what it is grammatically s an auxiliary clause.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797683
Succeed. Even if you're supposed to fail, succeed. Even if the world is conspiring against you, surpass it. Even if your station in life is disabling you, overcome it. Even if probability itself gives you no chance, win.

That's what freedom means. You are absolutely free. You have radical freedom. You can exercise your freedom to let whatever happens happens, or you can exercise your freedom to exert your will on reality itself. There is no "can't". You can learn japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797692
(forgot image)

[Anonymous No.]

i don't want to do my reps today...

[Anonymous No.]

>tfw will never be good enough for level 5 VNs

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797719
>dies irae

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797700
You never want to do your reps

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797723
>implying the ultimate story of heroes isn't at least a 3 on the difficulty scale

[Anonymous No.]

Why are there no VNs in the cor and why haven't there been since I started learning two years ago?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797836
They are quite large and I imagine immediately break the free transfer quota of mega.co.nz
Someone might eventually get around to it, but don't hold your breath

[Anonymous No.]

おはようおにいちゃん

たいふうすぎた

[Anonymous No.]

I'm watching an anime and the guys smoking something, the english subtitles say weed but I can't make out the word

It sounds like ネッコ or ヌッコ but I couldn't find any reference of that word being used to refer to weed, anyone know if it does have that meaning? Or if I'm just mishearing it and it's a different similar sounded word?

[Anonymous No.]

I want to do my reps today!

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798131

[Anonymous No.]

>シ
>ツ
>ン
>ソ

How do you tell these apart ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798143
>2 horizontal
>2 vertical
>1 horizontal
>1 vertical

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798143

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798149
>>17798152
The difference isn't so distinct in writing and in comics and stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798072
大麻 or 麻 are the usual words.
Was it Black Lagoon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798142
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBhNd1AQ9P4

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798143
Never had a problem with it. How odd. Maybe you should learn to write.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798161
Definitely sounded nothing like those two, I know クサ and 葉っぱ are also common terms but can't find any others

It was Rainbow

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798200
腑に落ちない

[Anonymous No.]

How do I buy kindle books from amazon Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798143
損失　「ソンシツ]　loss (eg. assets or profits)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798399
You pick the book you want to buy and then pay them

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798399
VPN

make sure you have a (fake) japanese address registered to the account, since it's an ebook it doesn't actually matter

[Anonymous No.]

So I'm doing namasensei's course on YouTube and in the Big Fat Face Review, he says that the sentence "boku no oishii tabemono desu" translates to "this is my delicious food". I though it translated to "my food is delicious". My guess still shows the food as being mine, so I can't work out the discrepancy. What the hell am I missing here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798503
僕の 美味しい食べ物

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798152
苦しゅうない

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798524
Im guessing the key is somewhere in the supermoon runes and not the three basic ones I can actually read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798503
if you say desu it's kind of like you are presenting something politely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797537
>>17797543
>>17797568
Thanks for the help Anonykinses. I've got another.

>ここは正直に話した方がわかってくれるかも。。。

"At this point, if I speak honestly, he might grant me understanding."

What is the function of 方 and why is 話す in the past form though ここ is the topic?

[Anonymous No.]

I haven't done my reps in months.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798503
です is not acting on おいしい but たべもの in that sentence; also, ぼく is modifying "おいしいたべもの" as a complete phrase, not just たべもの. To say "my food is delicious" you would have to rearrange the sentence like ぼくのたべものはおいしいです

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798588
The 方 is comparative. The other 方 would be to not speak honestly. DoJG and HJGP both cover the past tense issue:
https://core6000.neocities.org/dojg/entries/32.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798588
Maybe he would understand if I talked about this place more honestly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798619
>>17798675
アノンちゃんがとてもかっこいい
ありがとう

[Anonymous No.]

When you guys talk about retention rate are you talking about this add-on or something else?
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/613684242

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798908
mature rention is about the only useful metric and it comes with anki, no need for the extra stats
they're just wank, if you're doing poorly you usually know why

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798917
Is mature retention just correct answers on mature cards studied?

[Anonymous No.]

Why is the VN called 殻ノ少女 and not 殻で少女?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798973
It appears that you don't know Japanese, so just read more until you understand how weird the second phrase sounds as a title.

[Anonymous No.]

今日は月曜日です
僕は元気何でも無い
毎日が悪化する

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798934
No its a measure of barometric pressure :/

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799099
毎日に日本語を勉強していれば毎日が向上じゃないね？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799088
But why a katakana no?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799175
It looks cool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799125
日本語の勉強もある程度の域に達するとだらけてくるね
俺は大抵の文章の読み書きなら問題なくできるけど、これ以上何を勉強したらいいのかわからなくなってきたよ
語彙力の強化くらいしかやることがない

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799221
Oh

Yeah I guess

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799331

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799325
これはまるで日本人のような日本語文章だ。
君はすごいね！

[Anonymous No.]

fuck this word

[Anonymous No.]

What's the best anki deck that neatly covers most of the kanji that I'll need for N1, assuming that I already know the kanji up to N2?

[Anonymous No.]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rikaichamp/?src=search

Actual rikai fork that works on firefox 57. Dropping yomichan right now because of selection bugs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799713
cool, does it retain real time import?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799722
lol no

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799531
Why? It's easy to remember, logically pronounced, doesn't use unpredictable 湯桶 or 重箱読み, and even uses fairly simple amd common kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799777
>重箱読み
Did they just call it that because it's a common word that does it? Fucking nips

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799821
It's one of the most common of its type, so it lent its name to the reading pattern, yeah. Seems logical.

[Anonymous No.]

遅いアホやけど大阪弁で「しろ」が「せえ」になるんと今日ばっか教えてもらった

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797335
You don't really. Maybe they exhaled some air through their nose a little more forcefully than normal, or it's a faint "mph..." sound.
If you're translating, just think of something contextually relevant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799919
The sokuon っ at the end of an utterance indicates a glottal stop, in which the expulsion of air is suddenly cut off at the back of the throat, creating an abrupt end to the utterance.

It isn't officially condoned orthography, but very common anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799945
>creating an abrupt end to the utterance
In this context there's nothing to abruptly end. I know how the difference between 食べるなっ and 食べるな sounds like but when the phrase is "..." then what sound is that supposed to be?
As the anon I was replying to said, and as I repeated, the way I see it it's more or less whatever kind of faint sound that seems contextually appropriate.
I've seen instances of it being used as 「............ッ」in the form of a sudden reaction after being unresponsive for a while,「…ッ…」when their interest was grabbed for a brief second, and「…ッッ！」when a character was on the verge of throwing up. I don't interpret these sounds as being anywhere near the same, but to be completely honest, what do I really know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799959
I suppose I would interpret it as a very short, inarticulate emission of sound, like a grunt. You hear characters make the noise in anime when shocked, discomfitted, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

How am I supposed to understand anime when they don't use kanji when they speak?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799980
Remember how you learned spoken English?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799980
I watch Japanese video with Japanese subtitles. It helps when your listening comprehension isnless developed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799991
English doesn't have a million of same sounding words that differ only in written form, and you can actually guess what a new compound word means without seeing how it's written.

[Anonymous No.]

おはようおにいちゃん

たいようがもえている

ちきゅうのうらがわで

おはようおにいちゃん

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800055
>same sounding words that differ only in written form
Some of the most common words in English have homophones, though.
For, four, fore. For/four/fore, to/two/too, or/ore/oar, by/buy/bye, there/their/they're, your/you're, and many more less common words have them too. You do have a point that there aren't as many homophones in English, but just like how English is confusing to someone who doesn't speak the language fluently, you'll have trouble no matter what.

If you don't know the words, how are you supposed to know that a word that sounds like "rekkerd" means "record" or that "umbeleavabol" is "unbelievable" or that "kurrnel" is spelled "colonel" and "lewtenant" is spelled lieutenant of all things?
Japanese has homophones, English has spelling that rarely ever matches up with how a word is actually pronounced.

>and you can actually guess what a new compound word means without seeing how it's written?
By learning the most common morphemes and simply knowing what the most common words are? Just like in English, knowing common suffixes and prefixes helps a ton. 無、前、高、後、者、and so on. Just yesterday I put two and two together and unsurprisingly 喫煙 and 者 becomes 喫煙者.

I don't mean to sound condescending so I'll just ask, have you studied the spoken language much? Or are you diving into material too advanced for you? I tried improving my listening skills by watching Fate/Zero but even with subs I could barely understand a few words per sentence. So either your listening skills are underdeveloped compared to your reading skill, or you need to go down to something more easily understandable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800084
8:20午後だけど、こんばんは

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800090
>So either your listening skills are underdeveloped compared to your reading skill
probably yes, I'm fine as long as they don't start dropping lots of jukugo though

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800090
We had this discussion upthread already, but Japanese is far, far worse than English when it comes to homonyms. There are hundreds, if not thousands of them in Japanese, usually the same part of speech too. Compared to English, Japanese is phonetically impoverished, has very restrictive phonotactics, and a shitload of vocab from Chinese which itself already had a metric fuckload of homonyms, but in which they could often be distinguished through tones and such. Japanese just has a pitch accent and even that varies from region to region.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800090
>For, four, fore. For/four/fore,
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1508758642228.webm

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800134
全然ダメだこの子

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800100
しずかなよいに

ひかりをともし

いとしき

おしえを

いだき

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800134
あたしより

しゃべれてるとおもう

あたしのえいごはひどいからね

[Anonymous No.]

How do you search for tan lines in Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800237
>あたしのえいごはひどいからね
両親や友達は？みんな同じ苦手レベル？

[Anonymous No.]

>>17798072
>>17798295
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800263
まわりにえいごつかうひといない

[Anonymous No.]

I wonder where is Namasensei by now. Really enjoyed his tutorials.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800293
I mean you'd have to link the clip.

[Anonymous No.]

How do I type あ and ん with "
like that?
Also what do they sound like?
I tried http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/index/a/
but I don't know where to find them

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800723
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7EJJjvN55M
They say it at 14:30 and 16:11 on that vid, although it's french subtitles, and in french they just refer to it as a cigarette

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800775
adakuten<'><space><right><space a few times>

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800775
You just have to use a ゛ （てん）with あ and ん
あ゛あ゛ん゛ん゛

Just implies that it has more of a throaty loud sound to it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800779
I think it's a mistranslation. ねっこ refers to tobacco I think. It mentions nothing about weed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800938
>>17800779
According to 隠語大辞典 (slang dictionary) it says for ねっこ:
"紙巻煙草の吸いさし。草木の根に似ているところより。"

And if you read the official synopsis here it mentions only cigarettes:
http://www.ntv.co.jp/rainbow/story/03.html

I can't really find any references to ねっこ and たばこ online outside of that, but it could just be an archaic slang word since the anime is set in the past.

[Anonymous No.]

>Exposure or Immersion i don't know how they're calling it right know doesn't replace studying, that's why i think AJATT is cancer.

>And trust me 'believing you got the idea' and really knowing the meaning behind a sentence are 2 different things, people just looking out for english equivalents of some grammatical items while reading will never learn, thats my opinion.

ladies and gentlemen - Reddit

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800964
Did you actually buy into the whole AJATT thing?

It takes a native 20 years to get to the point of the average 20 year old native level of Japanese through immersion (plus they study the language to some degree too like kanji).

Why would this be an ideal method to use? Of course you should make use of your own native language to give you a huge advantage.

Have fun doing 20 years of immersion though if you really want to, in fact why are you even in this thread, this is cheating. You shouldn't get any hints as to what anything means unless it's from context only in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

is BrittvsJapan dude legit? I guess there's no way to know since he doesn't speak any actual Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800953
>>17800938
Yeah seems it's much more likely the english was mistranslated, thanks for the help fellas

I never even thought to look for the synopsis of the episode, I really need to get better at finding shit myself

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801000
He's just a shitty version of MattvsJapan.

Here is the perspective of someone who actually became fluent, although his journey was perfect and he ended up hating Japanese at the end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62r8m3JyEwg

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800998
you fucking what, there are AJATTers who did learn fluent Japanese in a matter of less than 5 years

Japs learn the new vocab in chunks especially when you talk about lessons
an AJATTer learns all that shit day by day, so clearly he can catch up with the Jap and even surpass him in vocab

go back to Genki m8 and school courses

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801013
His best videos are the ones where he shits on charlatans and discusses concepts only tangentially related to language learning, or recommends specific resources if you want to do thing X.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801021
So basically all of his videos then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801013
wasn't perfect*

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801019
What's this AJATT shit anyway? Is it basically what djt suggests (reading and then reading), except in a cult-like environment where studying grammar is prohibited, and with no fun of reading actual content?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801030
i know Matt but i saw that he recommends (?) Brit's channel and wondered is it just for lols

[Anonymous No.]

>>17800998
>Why would this be an ideal method to use? Of course you should make use of your own native language to give you a huge advantage.
Except its no advantage at all, unless its chinese or korean of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801024
No, only like half.

(I have watched every video here, youtube just selectively forgets.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801042
Messed up, here's the corrected version.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801047
wonder when he uploads a new video and links to his Patronite

[Anonymous No.]

Should I start paying more attention to pitch accent? I sort of know how to pronounce words when I do Anki since I have audio on every card, and I memorize it easily, but I have never studied the patterns and such.

Also, should I watch the Dogen person's videos on this topic, or just read some articles about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801107
>Should I start paying more attention to pitch accent?
Yes, otherwise your listening comprehension is going to be garbage.

>Also, should I watch the Dogen person's videos on this topic, or just read some articles about it?
Only the public ones. The patreon ones are unimportant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801013
Own fault for being a retard and just going to japan to watch anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>17799713
It's not actually a Rikaichan/sama fork, it's Rikaikun (the gimped Chrome port of Rikaichan) ported back to Firefox, with all of its limitations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801234
It is a rikai fork. I never said it was based on rikaichan/sama.

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone have any advice on how I can fucking focus on studying?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801472
Maybe it's just not for you? Look for something else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801472
step1: Don't browse 4chan and study instead

[Anonymous No.]

have you done your reps today, anon-kun?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801472
clearly articualte your goals so your brain knows why you're doing it
don't give up, sooner or later you will build up the focus muscles

[Anonymous No.]

does anyone have a pdf file with the AJATT contents of the actual table of contents?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801564
Just finished

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801614
reading ajatt is just a form of procrastinating from learning japanese

it's really common trap for beginners to learn about learning japanese instead of actually just learning japanese

whatever you know about ajatt is what you'll ever get out of it, no need to read it all

rtk + immersion + srs sentences

thats everything, it's not the most perfect method, but it's decent

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801658
where can I get AJATT lite if I don't know anything about it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801681
https://compellingcontent.neocities.org/longguide.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801681
>rtk + immersion + srs sentences

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801472
Take your meds,ADHDkun

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801781
>t. pharmakike

[Anonymous No.]

>>17801911
ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder that causes permanent mental impairments unrelated to ADHD if not treated with medications that reduce the neurodegenerative side effects of ADHD during childhood.

[Anonymous No.]

is DJT kana made in-house? well made for a bunch of bakas

[Anonymous No.]

What's good content to learn the kanji radicals?

[Anonymous No.]

Okay guys, are there any good Youtube videos on how to pronounce the R sounds? I'm having real troubles thanks to my Bavarian accents I guess?
Like, I know it's supposed to be done similarly to the L, but I can't make an R sound there. If I try, I just go back to my usual R or another bad one.

Any help would be appreciated. I've been browsing through youtube videos and even fucking recorded myself, it just won't come out right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802400
just because its an r in romaji doesnt mean its actually an r sound

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802432
As I said, I tried producing it by going to an L or a D and making it more like a ら but that didn't produce the right sound.

[Anonymous No.]

What would you rather recommend for a beginner? Genki or DoJG?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802484
DoJG is not a textbook/grammar guide, it's a dictionary. That aside, there isn't a "best" resource. All of them have their pros and cons and it's really up to you to find out which one suits you. Tae Kim is probably the most popular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802400
If you want to hear the sound more just watch any Japanese content at all. If you want the linguistic stuff then go to the Wikipedia page for that sound which contains instructions (in highly technical vocabulary) on how to make that sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802484
TK(if its back up) for basics so you can refer to it and HJGP while reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802493
I've spent tens of thousands of hours with Japanese content, including stuff not anime related. I know very well how it's supposed to sound. I just can't reproduce it, and it's fucking depressing.
I guess I'll try reading the wikipedia page.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802508
>I know very well how it's supposed to sound. I just can't reproduce it
Your throat, and vocal cords are moldable once in your life during infancy. Schwarzenegger has been stateside far longer than in his homeland, speaking american english every day and his accent still pegs him as fresh off the boat.
Give it up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802508
>I guess I'll try reading the wikipedia page.
The description may strike you as overdetailed, but that's a good thing. It leaves nothing to fuck up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802516
Not true, you can get rid of an accent but it will require a lot of work and probably help from someone who knows how to teach you

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802516
I'm actually studying in a class full with people around my age and about 80 % can pronounce it decently. It's depressing.

>>17802520
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology
You mean this, right? Will work through it tomorrow morning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFpcRQU-9ds
This one helped me a lot. Other than that try to practice a bit every day and you might see some results after a while.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802531
This in particular (voiced alveolar flap, the apical variant)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental,_alveolar_and_postalveolar_flaps

There is of course variation to this but as the article on Japanese phonology says this is the most baseline variant. In any case, it is much better than the German or English R.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802508
I kind of know that situation. My natural す in English is a つ so I can pronounce harder to word stuff than most English speakers but am very sure I would sound retarded even with a simple すいません to a native.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802582
ts is completely normal in English most learners are simply too stupid to suppress English phono tactics

[Anonymous No.]

I can't follow tsu's with su's though, or vice versa. just completely fucks my mouth.

[Anonymous No.]

How good is genki as a textbook anyways? Considering you already have anki cards and you're reading tae kim.

I used it back in highschool, so still have some of the basics which helps, but my teacher back then was god awful, and when she finally got switched out with a new teacher who was actually from japan, she dropped genki immediately and went with print outs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802532
ryan boundless here im just a chill white guy tryin to kick it with some japanjins but they all want nothing to do with me i wonder why

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802617
I used several diferent texts with several different teachers, and amongst the integrated-type courses, I always found Genki to be the best.

Of course, materials tailored to the class by a skilled teacher are always better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802622
Is it worth actually going through? Time wise.
I'm sure it doesn't hurt assuming you have the time to go through it, but I'm on a very limited schedule so I try to make the most of things. I've been doing cards and was going to start going directly into reading simple things in my spare time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802632
I would say so.

It's an integrated method of acquisition, so it presents situations, and then related vocabulary, grammar, exercises, listening practice, etc., all based around one theme. Drilling vocab and such is useful, but Genki's approach binds together the various skills in a meaningful way, while also helping to avoid the trap in which drilling goes from a means to an end.

I first used it thirteen years ago, and even leafing through it now, I'd still recommend it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802671
Fair enough, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>夕暮れの風が再びそよぎ始めていたが、そこから凍てつくような厳しさはすっかりなりを潜めていた。
What is the function of なり here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802763
Never mind, I'm retarded. It's 鳴りを潜める

[Anonymous No.]

>>17797335
>>17799968
I just came upon a 「……っ」 line in a VN. The VA voiced it like a grunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802763
>>17802770
そのなりじゃないとおもうよ

このなりはむかしのにほんごだとおもうよ

なりは姿とか形のいみじゃないかな

[Anonymous No.]

I swear the whole タルト型活用 exists to torture me with useless hyogai kanji that don't exist outside of novels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802820
http://kotobahiroi.seesaa.net/article/44063429.html
Supposedly it developed from a misunderstanding with 鳴り and なり in the same sense as you said. So 鳴りを潜める can also mean to conceal an appearance. I can still be wrong, but that's what I came to from reading the page.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17795255
Do you come upon the kanji in 挨拶 not as part of the word 挨拶? I was thinking that, for being joyo kanji, they have a very restricted use...

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802977
それはまたごあいさつですわね

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803048
何がごあいさつだとかよく分かりません

[Anonymous No.]

網
綱
以上です

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803083
Need a rope if you're going to climb a 山.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17802977
No, never.

Even the 漢字源 lists only one other compound containing 挨: 挨次, which I've also never seen in the wild.

It's just one of those cases in which the word itself is super-common, but the characters used to write that word have little or no other use. The 阜 in the prefecture name 岐阜 is another good example of this. It's also why the names of so many birds, insects and so on are usually written with kana; the applicable kanji have no other function. How many people need to know that ゴキブリ is 蜚蠊? The first character does occur in the 四字熟語 流言蜚語, but even then 飛 is usually subbed for 蜚.

It does kind of feel like learning a new letter just so you can spell a single word, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803083
There's a 亡 in 網 that lends its reading to it (close enough, anyway). Maybe the 妄 of 妄想 can work better for you if you just see the common 亡.

綱 is just the same as the 鋼 in 鋼鉄, it's コウ. 岡 itself has the on'yomi コウ.

I guess in terms of kun'yomi you need to remember that one is あみ and the other つな but I haven't had a problem with it myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803112
>岐阜
Oh god. I knew I felt there was something special about the second kanji.

Thanks for the reply.

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone here used the basic みんなの日本語 books? I'm currently halfway through the second book and wondering where to go after that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803249
There's a 中級 level of that series if you like the speed and format.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803249
I was made to use them in a class for a few months and thought they were terrible compared to others.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803255
I'll look into it, thks.

>>17803272
I tend to like how the chapters are divided, i just type the answers into a word doc. the constant practice helps me in remembering the lessons.

[Anonymous No.]

ごはんに

シチューを

かけよう

[Anonymous No.]

キャベツたべたくない？

かってきたらつくるよ

かってきて

[Anonymous No.]

Guys I know how you love blog entries and yellow-texting things other than quotes so I'm here for you:
>I feel lost on the internet without English. How do you find this seemingly awful show when it's not on nyaasi?

[Anonymous No.]

仲常以外の人
What does this mean? I’m trying to read some eromanga raw but this is confusing me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803545
仲魔？わっかんないや

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803545
is 仲常 a name?

[Anonymous No.]

>tired as shit from lack of sleep
>bomb my reps

I made a mistake

[Anonymous No.]

What doe the top part say?

A present of expressions (of a character) to make somebody a fan

Cause the pictures don't look like it would make somebody a fan. It seems something you give to people who aren't fans

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803696
yeah you did, dumbass

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803545

"People/person other than Nakatsune". 仲常 is a name.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803700
推しにさせたい表情テンプレ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803700
>>17803716
my bad I skimmed and misread that as present

So does it say?

Expressions to make somebody a fan?
The expressions I want a fan to make?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803112
>How many people need to know that ゴキブリ is 蜚蠊?
I have this in my mined vocab in Anki. 岐阜 as well. (^_^‘)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803823
Are you mining every word in its kanji form, no matter how rare? I do that.

[Anonymous No.]

おにくがやすかった！

にんじんもやすかった！

シチューつくるよ

たべたいでしょ？

[Anonymous No.]

いつもの練習前にちょい一服しよっか

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803881
Yeah, more or less. It makes reviews a little more difficult and perhaps pointlessly so but it is kind of neat at the same time. In around a week I'll be a little under 10,500 words containing 3,000 total unique kanji in my vocab deck.
Anki works best for properly rare factoids, right? (^_^.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17803823
>(^_^‘)
>>17804029
>(^_^.)
Stop it

[Anonymous No.]

シチューライスできたよ

おいしいっていえ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804088
それは味見してから言うことだろう

[Anonymous No.]

こっちもご飯を作ろうかな

[Anonymous No.]

Do i really have to do RTK?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804112
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804074
Neck yourself you insufferable fucking autist.
く(｀･ω･´)

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804116
Nah hes right you should stop being twelve if you want to post here. It's against the rules little bud

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804112
Premade mnemonics a shit.

A SHIT

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804102
ぶたヒレのシチューだよ

すごくおいしいよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804127
Eh. RTK's mnemonics are usually pretty good since they generally reflect the *actual* meanings and derivations of the characters and their elements, but if a mnemonic really isn't working for you, don't be reluctant to change it to something that does.

The value of premade mnemonics is that he's already done the legwork for you.

Once you can read enough Japanese, learning the *real* derivations from a proper 字典 like 漢字源 can be extremely helpful, not to mention interesting.

免, for example, is a representation of a woman giving birth and spewing out amniotic fluid. Neat, eh?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804161
I hope by "generally" you mean "much less than half of the time". The only ones lucky enough to have regular correspondence to etymology are some of the very most basic ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804182
It has been a very long time since I did RTK, but I don't remember it that way. There are certainly instances in which he had to make up entirely new mnemonics for elements that simply did not exist in the traditional kanji, the first three strokes of 学, for example, but in other cases, he chose meanings that corresponded to the *original* meanings of the character, even if that meaning is no longer productively used for the kanji in question. If you're going to learn a single keyword, this is actually more useful in the long run if that kanji functions in that meaning as a sub-element of other kanji.

I can't think of an example since it's been literally more than a decade, but I definitely recall later looking up the real etymologies of certain kanji and thinking: "Oh, *that's* why he chose that seemingly nonsensical keyword!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804213
645
志
intention
Samurai . . . heart. [7]
Very etymological. Yep.

[Anonymous No.]

ゆっくりしていてね

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804225
I did not say they were *all* perfect etymologies; trying to use those in all cases would defeat the whole purpose of the simplicity of single keywords. But 士 as "samurai" and 心 as "heart/mind" form a logical combination for 志, even if its derivation is ultimately different. Apparently, the 士 in 志 is an alteration of 之 which represented the shape of a foot or leg advancing forward.

My argument is just this: mnemonics that are actually related to the real derivations of the characters present less work in the long run because it's far less frequently necessary to shoehorn meaningless mnemonics into new kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804240
It's not really a logical combination if I can't predict it with as much accuracy as you can predict normal derivational morphology.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804242
It isn't a matter of perfect logic because the kanji are formed in multiple ways, including very loose 形声 types, and others about which we can only guess the thinking of the scribes that created them. It's an imperfect method, but the best available, I think.

It comes down to this: does the method work, in that it is an efficient means of acquiring basic character literacy? Mnemonics that correspond, even roughly, with the real meanings of the kanji will always be less work than those that don't.

If you have a method you believe superior, please introduce it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804247
Why are you projecting things I didn't argue about into your response?

[Anonymous No.]

How good is kanjidamage+ deck?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804249
I don't know what your point is meant to be, nor what you want. Do as you please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804254
Maybe you can start by not projecting things that you disagree with into the posts that respond to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804256
You offer nothing of value or utility. Piss off; we have enough autistics here already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804261
Why are you so upset? I didn't do anything to aggravate you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804261
You are the pissant autist here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804262
Last response. I've encountered your kind before, and I've got better shit to do than play chase-the-goalsposts with you. You're either a troll, or labouring under such poorly developed critical thinking skills as to be functionally equivalent. Either way, you're a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804271
Dude, there wasn't an argument to begin with. You're totally out of line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804271
You can't just assume that people are arguing about things they don't write anything about.

>It comes down to this: does the method work, in that it is an efficient means of acquiring basic character literacy? Mnemonics that correspond, even roughly, with the real meanings of the kanji will always be less work than those that don't.

>If you have a method you believe superior, please introduce it.

Anon never said anything remotely on this topic. They responded to a single notion from a longer post and stuck to it. They didn't break anything down point by point. They were never arguing with you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804273
Either he's an idiot, or using an highly non-standard definition of the word "logic". I wasted a good hour arguing with either him or someone just like him in another DJT before he finally came out and admitted he was deliberately trolling. He didn't want debate, discussion, or advice, only to troll and shitpost.

I recognize the posting style. Goodnight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804283
They never used the word "logic".

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804286
>It's not really a logical combination if I can't predict it with as much accuracy as you can predict normal derivational morphology.
>logical combination

Yes, he did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804300
The word "logical" is not the word "logic", and has a different set of definitions and uses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804302
See, this is exactly the kind of semi-literate hairsplitting I'm talking about. Using the adjectival form of the noun is totally different, amirite?

Like I said: I recognize this posting style. Stupid or autistic, it does not matter. For every ten earnest learners, there is one of these.

Congrats on getting a few more posts out of me, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804317
Ah, quite the nonstandard definition anon was using!

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804318
That was a fast response. I'm not sure who's trolling who now.

Either way, you bring nothing of value to the thread, so you may continue beshitting it alone. I'll not be any further guilty of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804321
Sure thing mister "starts off topic arguments whenever anyone responds critically then acts all high and mighty and accuses the other people of being trolls".

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804324
You only get image macros now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804328
I thought you were going to stop responding several posts ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17804332