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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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17412167 No.17412167 [Reply] [Original]

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.

Previous thread: >>17393691

This thread is for the discussion and learning of Japanese with raw VNs, LNs, Jdrama, anime and manga.
If you have no interest in otaku media or want to request a translation, this is not the thread for you.

>> No.17412314


>> No.17412316
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>> No.17412326 [DELETED] 


>> No.17412327 [DELETED] 


>> No.17412374 [DELETED] 

This is where you belong.

>> No.17412380 [DELETED] 

Sorry but nothing showed up, guess we're staying here

>> No.17412399


>> No.17412474
File: 17 KB, 128x128, JPEG_20170718_012901.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Do u guys feel like learning japanese is worth? I listen to a lot of Japanese music and want to understand what some songs mean on the fly. Also watch some anime but that's about it.

>> No.17412488

No, not at all. In fact, my life has gotten considerably worse since I've learnt Japanese. I can't associate with EOPs anymore.

>> No.17412494



>> No.17412576

Why can I do 15 minute interval cards right away but have to wait for 30 minute interval

>> No.17412588

95%+ of the music I listen to is Japanese. I'm scared that once I can understand the lyrics, I won't like it anymore.

>> No.17412590

Preferences -> Learn ahead limit.

>> No.17412599

I also fell into this trap, but before finishing learning, so now I have neither the rewards from actually learning Japanese nor the sense of camaraderie I used to have with most 4chan posters.

>> No.17412601

Are you retarded? Do you like music in your native language any less because you can understand it?

>> No.17412605

I wasn't serious, by the way. I don't agree with most 4chan posters and I have always hated EOPs, knowing Japanese doesn't have any negative effect in my life.

>> No.17412608

>Do you like music in your native language any less because you can understand it?

Yes, when the lyrics are bad.

>> No.17412610

Did you formerly hate yourself?

>> No.17412615

Who doesn't hate themselves to some degree?

>> No.17412623

I was surprised myself when I discovered that supposedly it's not normal to hate yourself.

There's all kinds of people out there.

>> No.17412705

>Really want to learn
>Have had the absolute worst studying ethic possible and probably successfully studied only a handful of times over the course of my life and just coasted all the way through off of my ability to learn quickly through classes
>The one time I was able to buckle down and focusing hard I did it for a few weeks and then lost every ounce of motivation I had
>This was 5 years ago and I haven't once touched Japanese since
>Trying to start again but I not only have less motivation but I have my past experience to discourage me even more when I think about how I've utterly wasted 5 years I could have used and wouldn't have to sit here wishing I could read untranslated shit already
There is absolutely no fucking worse of a feeling possible, I guarantee you this. How am I supposed to learn when I don't even have the utter basics of studying down, much less the motivation to pretend I do?

>> No.17412717

Who are you quoting?

>> No.17412726

No one? I'm asking a question?

>> No.17412734

Why are you using the quoting function when you're not trying to quote anyone?

>> No.17412741


>> No.17412777



>> No.17412782
File: 132 KB, 900x848, 30718_04.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Are these good for learning kanji?

>> No.17412788
File: 230 KB, 1447x1018, 71lKsM+hr8L.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here's an example page.

>> No.17412791

A healthy amount of self loathing is called humility

>> No.17412868

The generic counter つ here is referring to age, right?
So it's something like 'I can't believe/it hardly seems like you're four years older than me'?

>> No.17412870

Most likely but you should know from the context.

>> No.17412909

I'm not sure if I understand what this means.

We who have been born to fit some(one's) story?
We who have been born to keep coherence?

>> No.17412919

So I should keep Anki at using 25 new cards a day right? Also what are your recommendations to really comprehend and retain the knowledge from it?

>> No.17412933

>Also what are your recommendations to really comprehend and retain the knowledge from it?
Understand the word before you try to memorize it with anki.

In other words mining.

>> No.17412946


>25 words per day

Sounds like hell. If your reviews ever pile up too much that it discourages you, don't forget you can lower the number of new words.

>> No.17412947

The former

>> No.17412955

>So I should keep Anki at using 25 new cards a day right?
If it is working for you

>Also what are your recommendations to really comprehend and retain the knowledge from it?
Read more

>> No.17412992

Thanks, I thought so too.

>> No.17413088


>> No.17413133

>In other words mining.
Forgive me as I'm still beginning but what does "mining" mean? I heard that before but thought it meant doing the Anki cards

>> No.17413162

It means reading or listening to compelling content, coming across an unknown word, researching it's meaning and adding it to an anki deck.

>> No.17413239

When should I start trying to do that then? I can barely count to ten at this point

>> No.17413241

When you finished Tae Kim, so one month or so in.

>> No.17413270

If your goal is to count to ten, you don't need to bother mining.

>> No.17413274

Obviously I wouldn't be putting in this effort if that was my goal, that's just my current level

>> No.17413427

>watch anime with japanese subtitles and you will eventually learn the language

is this a meme?

>> No.17413445

Only if you don't stop and look up the words you don't know.

>> No.17413461

but i forget them right afterward

>> No.17413465
File: 126 KB, 444x470, 1430851544887.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Don't do that

>> No.17413477

Honestly I'm the same way as you, but learning Japanese gave me the discipline to actually sit down and study.
The pleasure of learning the language gave me all the motivation I needed.

>> No.17413483

Where do I get anime with Japanese subtitles?
I have been watching without subs for a few years but I still have at best 3/4 the comprehension of a vn or ln.

>> No.17413488
File: 224 KB, 698x395, help3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What does ズーズーしい mean here? Context is that Yotsuba is getting excited because she thinks that her friend Asagi will bring back a souvenir after her trip.

>> No.17413490


>> No.17413492


>> No.17413493

Thank you

>> No.17413519

I think I'm going to have to start kanji from scratch. I don't know what's happening, but my retention is just dropping like a rock over the last few days. I've been routinely getting >90% correct for several months, and I've hardly added any new cards at all in that time, but my retention has been slipping bit by bit lately and today it made a sudden drop all the way down to <75% (and a pathetic 60% on matures).

Maybe I did too many kanji a day when I was learning them and this is the result of it finally catching up with me, but it's strange that it took so long if that's the case. Alternatively, maybe this is just the limit of what one can accomplish in the long term if one learns kanji without using mnemonics, but if that were the case then Japanese people would all be illiterate. Perhaps the true cause of this problem is trying to learn kanji as isolated elements and not learning them in conjunction with the words they're used to write.

Fuck, this is so frustrating and disheartening.

>> No.17413523


>> No.17413525

Read more.

>> No.17413541


>> No.17413549

I think it's better to use no subtitles, and just have a transcript open on another monitor so you can look up and mine words. That way you're forced to concentrate on the sound in order to keep your place, and you can't use the symbolic nature of the written language to give you hints.

>> No.17413560

where do you even start from?
i (re)learned hiragana and katakana yesterday (for the third time) but tae kim makes me ??? because i don't know kanji so i'm assuming i should start learning kanji with anki before going through tae kim but that also seems weird, learning vocabulary with no grammar, or should i add the kanji encountered in it to a mining deck, but in this very thread people say you should start using that around a month in

>starting university in a month and should brush up on maths
>i suddenly want to learn jabanese t. brain :D

>> No.17413561

You start by reading the fucking guide bitch. Don't reply to this post, just go and fucking read it right now.

>> No.17413565

I think every kanji used in there is explained in there. However, I also had some trouble with memorizing those words even if it was just for short term memory. I had way more ease after doing like 1000 words of 2k/6k in Anki (probably less). I didn't get the example sentences obviously, but knowing the kanji in some form made Tae Kim easier for me.

>> No.17413568

wow i'll go read it but the rudeness wasn't necessary

>> No.17413569

Thanks. This is mildly life changing.
I haven't watched Oregairu s2 because when protagonist and friends spoke it was like a white noise machine of vocabulary. Now I can move forward.

>> No.17413577

Tae Kim gives you a list of vocab for every lesson, so what's the problem? You just learn those words as you see them.

>> No.17413580

animelon's selection is pretty limited, so there's also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dTql1MuPlc

>> No.17413586


Wow, fuck off.

>> No.17413589

>English textbooks on his desktop
I knew it, AJATT was just a ruse

>> No.17413618



>> No.17413623
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Is intermediate hell when you've reached a point where no matter how much you read, your progress slows down to a crawl?
I think I'm at that point.

>> No.17413627
File: 83 KB, 743x782, a confuse.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i did read the guide but i asked for clarity because it doesn't state a clear order of progress.
my short term memory is terrible so I assume beforehand I'll have great difficulty trying to push all the squiggly lines into long term storage via reading a short list of vocabulary as opposed to grinding flash cards
Then again i suppose the point of Tae Kim isn't really about teaching kanji so remembering which is which might not be all that important after that particular chapter-

I'll just start reading Tae Kim now and start Anki
2k later today, I'm concerned with starting with the most effective manner possible so i don't get discouraged again like all those times before

>> No.17413645

>I'm concerned with starting with the most effective manner possible so i don't get discouraged again like all those times before

In that case, efficiency shouldn't be your main concern, it should be entertainment. Find a way of studying that is fun, and you won't lose motivation. If that happens to not be the most optimal way of learning based on results per time, so be it, because efficiency doesn't matter if you just lose motivation and quit.

>> No.17413652

No, "intermediate hell" is a meme made up by people who are actually still beginners, afraid to up the difficulty level from shounen manga and invest more than 1 hour a day into reading.
What are the last 5 novels you have completed, if you read as much as you say?

>> No.17413653


>> No.17413654

Only happened with K-On songs to me but I guess it sounding like the lyrics were written by dumb teenage girls is the point.
Other Japanese music I listen to only became better when I started to understand the lyrics.

>> No.17413706

I've never "completed" a novel because I tend to jump around a lot, but I have experience from the following
Obligatory beginner stuff like Kino no Tabi, Hanahira and Flyable Heart
森の魔獣に花束を (that's what I've been reading recently)
Some theater VN I forgot the name of
Various nukige
Amagami SS
And some novel about a 夜市

I was thinking of jumping into これはペンです again since its much harder than anything I've read before and I think I'll get some good progress out of it.

>> No.17413738

Do you mean to tell me you've tried all of those and never once completed a single volume or route?

>> No.17413740

That's good advice, when I started playing the guitar I didn't bother with learning chords, I just started playing the simplest songs I liked with lots of power chords and picked chords up on the go as I moved on to more difficult songs and started actually studying chords and scales and whatnot
Sometimes I regret not learning them from the start because I could be much better than I am, but then again I can 100% guarantee I would have given up after a few weeks if I had gotten an acoustic guitar instead and started from boring chord progressions

I think I didn't mean the most effective way to learn, but rather a way that flows and builds on itself instead of something that bounces around seemingly without a common motif

>> No.17413756
File: 86 KB, 960x569, ULJS00339_00009.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I meant the entire series.
For example I completed Tsukasa's route in Amagami SS but I never finished the others, so I don't say I completed Amagami.
With the VN's its usually completing or near completing the common route and I never really step foot into the heroine routes.

>> No.17413762

if you hover your mouse cursor over the kanji, the balloon tip shows exactly what appears before the lesson begins

>> No.17413791




>> No.17413797

>I've never "completed" a novel
Then you are doing something very wrong. I remember a post bringing up 森の魔獣 and Amagami before, think that was in June. So you've been sitting on a mere 300 page book for over 2 months, not even 5 pages a day. If you read a lot most of those should finished or close to the end, but from your wording I assume that's not the case. Set yourself some goals like finishing X by Y date and actually fulfill those, it will do wonders for your discipline and lack of focus. It's easy to trick yourself into thinking you read a lot when you start a ton of things and only read a little bit from them all, but everything you listed there probably doesn't even equal finishing 2 medium length VNs.

>> No.17413804

Well, that guy said "last 5 novels", so each volume counts. A series isn't a novel, it's a series of novels. As for games, since you're just trying to take stock of how much text you've been through, let's say for now that you've "finished" it if you reached the credits, unless it's something with a really unusual structure.

>> No.17413822

Hey, I'm not that guy, but I would like to do something similar to what you're suggesting with VNs. My problem is that I never know how far into a VN I am, and it makes tracking progress a bit difficult. Are "progress chart" images the only way of obtaining such information?
I guess I could also open up the text file and check how many lines there are, but it's pretty much impossible to do that with any branching work.

>> No.17413837

I've been slowly reading 森の魔獣 but I blasted through Tsukasa's route in a couple days. I'm pretty selective when it comes to media. I'm sitting on things that I haven't touched in over a year yet plan to finish one day. I also read tons of manga because its what I enjoy the most but it isn't something I'd really call studying the language because of how easy it tends to be.

But you are right I really aught to set a goal to finish more material in shorter amount of time, I just get bored of it after awhile, especially when it comes to the bloated nature of VNs. I can't even finish a longer VN in English.

>> No.17413871
File: 70 KB, 600x800, リクター・ベルモンド.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17413889

I wrote a short guide
I don't really know how stuff is added to the OP guide but if anyone in charge wants to add it, feel free to.

>> No.17413935

oh thanks. I thought doing it in such a way would be ineffective since you can't track how far along a route you are, but reading everything is better anyway, so your method works. Maybe I would use character count instead of physical size, though.

>> No.17414059

Is there a way to set up Anki to increase the daily limit when I press easy on a new card? I like to stick to the same amount of new cards I don't know and it's annoying to exist the deck and increase it through custom study every time a known card pops up.

>> No.17414250

I think what I'm going to do from here on out is start a new deck, and instead of learning kanji in some prescribed order like I was doing, I will only learn a kanji when I learn a word that it's used to write.

So my plan for the future is to read a lot, mine common words, and when mining them, create kanji cards for their kanji in a separate deck.

Hopefully I will have better luck with this approach.

>> No.17414257

>learning arbitrary lists of words from a grammar guide
This is a great way to make reading it even more of a boring, tedious pain in the ass.

Grammar guides should be finished with as soon as possible. Anything that makes the process take longer (like forcing yourself to learn all the vocab used in them) should be avoided at all costs.

>> No.17414258

Just delete the cards if you don't need them at all

>> No.17414274

You don't have to learn the vocab immediately, you just have to reference the vocab list when reading the example sentences so that you know what it says there and then.

>> No.17414279

>reference the vocab list
Or just install riakaisama.

>> No.17414282


>> No.17414287

I'd just like to inform all new people here that the vast majority of people giving advice in these threads don't even know basic Japanese, especially if the topic is things like Kanji study and how to read grammar guides. If you're a beginner your best bet is to ignore everything people tell you on here and just learn in a way you think will benefit you.

>> No.17414302

This post is written by a beginner too, so you may discard his opinion as well.

>> No.17414307

This post is written by a beginner too, so you may discard his opinion as well.

>> No.17414331

>Are "progress chart" images the only way of obtaining such information?

Yes, that's why I made them.

>> No.17414473
File: 17 KB, 400x400, whats_going_on_in_here_001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Are the Kangxi radicals harder to learn than actual kanji?

Also, I only do 5 per day, because after total confusion from 20 and then 60 per day I started anew.
Is 5 new ones per day too few? I don't care about how long it takes, but I fear that with only 5 there's not enough unique ones per session (~25). Confusion with other characters is my primary problem.

>> No.17414482

>with only 5 there's not enough unique ones per session (~25). Confusion with other characters is my primary problem.
i.e., it's too easy then.

I'll also up the rate again when I'm through the radicals, even if they're harder.

>> No.17414520

Could you guys proof read this for me. It is polite enough? Did I make it clear? Please and thank you.



>> No.17414525

Am I an idiot for still not understanding particle usage after a year of studying? I keep forgetting how to use に を と で and が.

>> No.17414534

what the flying fuck

>> No.17414540

Can say for one thing, you're not clear.

>> No.17414569

That sounds assuming as fuck.

>> No.17414615
File: 2.45 MB, 400x209, 1341482358159.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Is there any difference between using the te and the node forms when it comes to correctness? As far as I can see, te/de is only applicable before sentences that are a natural reaction to the reason given in the first one, and meanwhile node can be applicable anywhere?


>> No.17414627


>> No.17414634

unfortunately those have nothing to do with why both of those are grossly incorrect though it does in fact add to it

>> No.17414635

Should've been suku, right. My bad. Aside from that?

>> No.17414638

て form in this case indicates circumstances and/or successive actions.
I went to school without eating anything (食べないで), therefore (ので) my stomach became empty (I got hungry)

>> No.17414657

Right, I should probably stick to kana if I don't know how a given kanji for it looks like. Couple of questions though, since I don't get a few things.

Why did you skip を between nanimo and tabenaide? I have eaten - nothing, it's an object. Is it optional? Why did you add gakkou? And why is suku in the past form? Is onaka ga suita a fixed expression and I should just not pay attention to the ta at the end? Why can't I say onaka ga suku, or onaka ga suiteimasu?

>て form in this case indicates circumstances and/or successive actions.
Because I have eaten nothing, now I'm hungry. That doesn't quallify? Sorry for being a fucking retard but Minna no Nihongo doesn't explain ANY of this shit in detail.

>> No.17414693

>Why did you skip を between nanimo and tabenaide?
も is a particle that replaces を、が or へ, just like は. You cannot write をも

>> No.17414704

>You cannot write をも

>> No.17414712

Not in the way he means it

>> No.17414714

That's because you're not reading enough native content.

>> No.17414715

honestly you should just ignore anything written by this guy after seeing this >>17414638

maybe he understands the ideas behind the grammar but hes completely unable to apply them properly

>> No.17414718

>Why did you skip を between nanimo and tabenaide? I have eaten - nothing, it's an object. Is it optional?
も replaces it. をも does exist but it means something else and you shouldn't concern yourself with that as a beginner.
>Why did you add gakkou?
Just as an example.
>And why is suku in the past form? Is onaka ga suita a fixed expression and I should just not pay attention to the ta at the end? Why can't I say onaka ga suku, or onaka ga suiteimasu?
お腹が空く = for the stomach to empty. When talking about a specific experience you should use the past form or ている, but if you were to describe something that will happen, might happen, or usually happens, you'd use 空く.
If you go to school without eating anything, you'll get hungry.
I advise checking multiple resources when you have trouble with a specific grammar point, especially because textbooks like Minna no Nihongo or Genki are designed for classroom use.

>> No.17414719

You seem to think >>17414638 and >>17414693
is the same person. They're not.

>> No.17414724


>> No.17414733

So, can I assume this is fine, or am I actually so bad it's incomprehensible?

>> No.17414736

i believe the best lesson will be learned when you enter that into the body and press 送信する

>> No.17414738

Thanks for the answers guys, cleared up some things for me.

>> No.17414744

Well, I don't want to be rude or sound stupid to the artist. That's why I asked here first.

>> No.17414749

you're his customer, so he shouldn't bully you even if you mess something up

>> No.17414753

Honestly it's very badly written, sorry. But I think he will probably understand what you mean.

A word you probably want to learn is 依頼. In this case it means commission, as in commissioning a painting. I'm not sure 手数料 is the word you are looking for, that's mostly used for handling fees etc, not the main payment for something.

>> No.17414759

Just add 拙い日本語で申し訳ありませんが or something to the start of the message

>> No.17414778

Yeah, but I still don't want to look dumb.

>> No.17414782

Guess I'll try working on it a bit more. Thank you for the advice.

See, that's the other thing. I don't want to blatantly look like a gaijin.
Because nips are often pretty racist, so they might decline the job just because of that.

>> No.17414790

btw, this is what lang8 is for. They'll not only tell you how your text is, but adjust it for you

>> No.17414796

Oh, that's actually exactly what I need. Thank you.

>> No.17414798

How much should I be reading daily and is manga enough?

>> No.17414799

2 hours minimum.
>and is manga enough
Manga isn't reading.

>> No.17414800

what if their response requires you to respond again

are you just gonna ask us to ghostwrite everything for you

it should be clear from the last 15 or so posts that youre no better off

my advice is condense it to one sentence after all your formalities which are missing

>> No.17414804
File: 151 KB, 711x773, 2017-08-02_11-02-09.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17414811

I actually didn't think it would be that bad.

Are there any decent website that do Eng to JP translations?
I feel like that would be the simplest solution for now.

>> No.17414814


I can post it for you on my account and give you the link so that you can see corrections, if you want

>> No.17414816








>> No.17414817

If it's not too much work for you, I would appreciate it.

>> No.17414824

you could post it on hellotalk if you have a phone lmao

>> No.17414833


>> No.17414846

Thank you again, anon.

>> No.17414848

A few months ago one guy here wrote something like "ユリのVNは好きなの?", and someone replied with a screenshot from a VN where one naked girl was hugging her naked mother and saying "お母さんが大好き". The archive has failed me, so does anyone have any idea what the title of that VN was?

>> No.17414854
File: 884 KB, 794x598, yoshi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I approve of this reference

>> No.17414882

what if your brain is melting after reading just about 30 mins?

>> No.17414884


>> No.17414903

>Manga isn't reading.

>> No.17414904

then take a break and do another 30 mins
repeat this several times
(bonus points for doing Japanese stuff in the breaks)

>> No.17414928
File: 34 KB, 560x560, 1477448338030.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You've been meme'd, my friend. You're not supposed to have motivation to learn anything, nor are you supposed to enjoy it. A personal learning philosophy based off of only learning the things that you are "naturally motivated" to learn would result in learning practically nothing unless you're a nerd. But, for us non-nerds, we need to use sheer willpower and self-discipline to better ourselves and advance our own personal pursuits. Don't do it for yourself, or anyone else. Just fucking do it, for no reason, and do it well.

>> No.17414930
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>> No.17414975

Nice projection.

>> No.17414982

I knew the K-On songs had dumb lyrics from the titles long before I figured out what any of the lyrics meant. I like them more now.

What exactly were you expecting from "Rice is a side dish?"

>> No.17415081

a lot of songs i didn't like before i actually came to like once i knew what the lyrics meant, most of the time it enhances it

>> No.17415091
File: 290 KB, 620x699, HimawariStare.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>But, for us non-nerds
I don't know how to tell you this, but that's what a nerd is, Anon. You are naturally motivated enough to find the willpower and self-discipline to do something because you want to.

Come out of the nerd closet.

>> No.17415150

I did 30 radicals per day for a week. I can't even do 10 words or kanji a day. So no, they're not harder.

>> No.17415227

FYI you got a comment: http://lang-8.com/876124/journals/10340226775382446183855856743418201134/%25E6%2589%258B%25E6%2595%25B0%25E6%2596%2599%25E3%2582%2592%25E6%2589%2595%25E3%2581%2588%25E3%2581%25B0%25E3%2580%2581%25E7%25B5%25B5%25E3%2582%2592%25E6%258F%258F%25E3%2581%2584%25E3%2581%25A6%25E3%2581%2584%25E3%2581%259F%25E3%2581%25A0%25E3%2581%2591%25E3%2581%25BE%25E3%2581%2599%25E3%2581%258B%253F?t=correction#journal_comment_123925539194817125552555869596864513070

>> No.17415256

if you have any nihongo trouble just post it on lang8 and well keep an eye out on any comments for you

>> No.17415262


>> No.17415272
File: 1.35 MB, 4256x2832, hirezトマト.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Does anyone have any techniques they use for studying? I was getting frustrated with my goal of 20 kanji a day in KKLC because it seemed like my studying would drag on and on, so I started using the pomodoro method and it made it a lot easier to focus and get through the kanji. That way I could go fast and add them in the anki deck. Now I feel like I can learn 10-20 in a 25 minute period depending on how familiar/unfamiliar they are.

>> No.17415295

what a pretentious name for such a simple thing

>> No.17415307

I noticed.
Thank you.

And thanks again for doing it in the first place.
Going to get back to studying now.

>> No.17415325

How did you start to write anything on lang-8, if you don't mind sharing? I have heard some recommendations about writing something (a little bit) everyday to improve my writing skill, and to gain some confidence in it. But as a beginner, I have also heard some suggestions that say that it's best to learn writing until later, especially if any writing you write is not corrected by native so as not to build bad habits..

>> No.17415349

Well if I remember correctly I didn't start until at least after I had finished a grammar guide or two. But I don't think there's any problem just diving into it. You will be bad in the beginning, but that's the point. It forces you to think about the language in ways that just reading or listening can't do, and you'll improve a lot.

>> No.17415382

Thanks anon.

>> No.17415440
File: 691 KB, 806x628, ハーフ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

is she really asking whether she would look like a "person of mixed parentage" in the 素敵なスカート they're talking about? I don't see how a skirt could do that, but there might be some cultural assumptions at play here that I am not aware of.

>> No.17415470


>> No.17415485

I sometimes use the pomodoro technique to start studying, then after I get "in the zone" I just keep going until my brain gets foggy and I don't understand whatever I'm doing, then I go watch anime and repeat until the day ends and my mind is a wreck.
Alternatively I use positive reinforcement methods to get me going, either I reserve some anime I really want to watch as a reward for finishing X number of goals, or just buy a candy for the same effects, etc.
Just a few of the many ways to stop fucking around and start doing stuff.

>> No.17415496


>> No.17415543
File: 33 KB, 600x564, 1472378050484.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No no no, I'm naturally logical enough to reach the conclusion that training myself to have the willpower to do shit I don't enjoy over a long period of time will make me enjoy it eventually. It's like sophisticated hedonism. To me, a nerd is some chad with 7 girlfriends who spends his time working out and being successful, who happens to own a marvel T shirt that he wears every now and then. No, I'm no nerd, I'm less than that. I'm a nothing, who aims at becoming a something through discipline. Nobody on /jp/ is a nerd. Nerd doesn't even mean anything anymore.

>> No.17415553

gg, went for two silly kokushii in a row at the start and got punished hard.

>> No.17415570
File: 80 KB, 1054x791, anki.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I downloaded the Core 2k deck from the DJT guide and it ended up looking liek this.

I remember I've dealt with this font issue before but can't remember/find the solution.

Could anyone give me some hints? Thanks!

>> No.17415579

That's Core4/6 instead of the Core2/6 deck.

>> No.17415582

Just use it like that, and you will learn to read Japanese 2x as fast since the words are cut in half.

>> No.17415634

Upgrade to Windows 7.

>> No.17415649

why haven't i started learning japanese sooner? this is actually a lot of fun and even kanji are not that scary at all

>> No.17415655

>One of the trickiest part of Japanese is that there is no verb for the state-of-being like the verb "to be" in English.

There are, they just don't take direct objects, they're fossilized compounds.

>So you may be wondering, "What's the point of using 「だ」?" Well, the main difference is that a declarative statement makes the sentence sound more emphatic and forceful in order to make it more... well declarative.

This is "Korean Japanese".

>We can conjugate a noun or adjective to either its negative or past tense to say that something is not [X] or that something was [X].

You're not conjugating the noun/adjective, you're conjugating the copula. This causes a lot of confused questions about "conjugating nouns".

>This may be a bit hard to grasp at first but none of these state-of-being conjugations make anything declarative like 「だ」 does.

They're exactly as declarative. That is to say, not much at all. This is "Korean Japanese".

>Ok, so we can make a topic using the 「は」 and 「も」 particle. But what if we don’t know what the topic is? What if I wanted to ask, “Who is the student?” What I need is some kind of identifier because I don't know who the student is. If I use the topic particle, the question would become, “Is who the student?” and that doesn't make any sense because "who" is not an actual person.

It's preferred to use は with question words in certain situations like "何はいてるの", just not the situation Tae Kim is trying to cover right now. This is an answer looking for a question.

>It is also referred to as the subject particle but I hate that name since "subject" means something completely different in English grammar.

It doesn't. This is objectively wrong and extremely misleading and causes countless confused questions about が.

>Instead, I call it the identifier particle because the particle indicates that the speaker wants to identify something unspecified.

が is not about identifying something unspecified.

>The two particles 「は」 and 「が」 may seem very similar only because it is impossible to translate them directly into English.

Maybe not for pronouns, but you certain can with normal nouns.

>I (am) student.
>I (am) student.
>However, they only seem similar because English cannot express information about the context as succinctly as Japanese sometimes can. In the first sentence, since 「私」 is the topic, the sentence means, "Speaking about me, I am a student".
>However, the second sentence is specifying who the 「学生」 is. If we want to know who the student is, the 「が」 particle tells us it's 「私」. You can also think about the 「が」 particle as always answering a silent question. The second sentence might be answering a question, "Who is the student?" I often translate the topic particle as "as for; about" and the identifier particle as "the one; the thing" to illustrate the difference.

I'm a student. / I happen to be a student.

I'm the student. / I'm a student.

Fixed that for you.

This is only one of the times that tae kim's crappy hyper-"literal" example sentence translations trap his explanations in a web of uncertainty. It's a common problem throughout the guide.

>The 「は」 and 「が」 particles are actually quite different if you think of it the right way. The 「が」 particle identifies a specific property of something while the 「は」 particle is used only to bring up a new topic of conversation.

This is an answer looking for a question, and it's extremely confusing.

Keep in mind that Tae Kim hasn't mentioned that は can be used for things that don't look like subjects yet. At all.

>All adjectives fall under two categories: na-adjectives and i-adjectives.

Japanese has a small number of true adnominal adjectives like とある and 大きな, neither of which are na/i-adjectives and neither of which conjugate. This is especially important for 大きな because it's common and people need to not treat it as a na-adjective. The この・その・etc words are also adnominals. the Japanese word for this is 連体詞.

>Unlike na-adjectives, you do not need to add 「な」 to directly modify a noun with an i-adjective.

Pick one: the な and い are part of the word or they're not. You can't have both. An eight-line paragraph about distinguishing i-adjectives and na-adjectives comes directly before this statement and doesn't once draw the direct parallel between な and い.

In the whole lesson, Tae Kim doesn't mention that ない is an i-adjective, even though he says here that it conjugates the same and introduces it in an earlier lesson.

>> No.17415661


>A grammatically complete sentence requires a verb only (including state-of-being).

A grammatically complete sentence does not even require a verb. You only need a predicate, and a predicate can be implied, like na-adjectives or nouns without the な or だ. You cover this in the first or second lesson. Come one.

This being pulled out as a warning causes a lot of confusion and makes a lot of people ask really dumb questions when they run into sentences that have no verb or i-adjective.

>Classifying verbs into ru-verbs and u-verbs

No. These are the worst names ever.

>All ru-verbs end in 「る」 while u-verbs can end in a number of u-vowel sounds including 「る」.

There you have it.

>For verbs ending in 「る」, if the vowel sound preceding the 「る」 is an /a/, /u/ or /o/ vowel sound, it will always be an u-verb. Otherwise, if the preceding sound is an /i/ or /e/ vowel sound, it will be a ru-verb in most cases. A list of common exceptions are at the end of this section.

This is hard for you to explain because you're starting at the categories and then trying to explain how to determine what kind of verb goes into what category, based on the word itself. This isn't only ridiculous because you haven't taught what the difference between the two types of verbs actually us (how come ~iru and ~eru verbs can go into either category?). It also primes people to go through mental gymnastics to figure out what kind of verb a verb is, when you're never going to learn a verb without seeing its conjugations (which tell you which kind it is) several times.

>These two verbs 「ある」 and 「いる」 are quite different from all other verbs because they describe existence and are not actual actions.

These are not even close to the only verbs that don't describe an actions.

>Changing a u-verb from dictionary form to the past tense is difficult because we must break up u-verbs into four additional categories. These four categories depend on the last character of the verb.

Nobody but Tae Kim breaks "u-verbs" up into four categories based on what character they used for the past tense. Even worse, he puts く and ぐ verbs in the same category. He does this without implying that it's based on a different verb form, which would dramatically simplify the explanation.

>The conjugation rules for the past-negative tense are the same for all verbs. You might have noticed that the negative of just about everything always end in 「ない」. The conjugation rule for the past-negative tense of verbs is pretty much the same as all the other negatives that end in 「ない」. You simply take the negative of any verb, remove the 「い」 from the 「ない」 ending, and replace it with 「かった」.

He still doesn't verbally state that ない is an i-adjective.

>The 「を」 character, while technically pronounced as /wo/ essentially sounds like /o/ in real speech.

This is wrong. It's just pronounced as o. wo is merely technically valid.

>Unlike the direct object we're familiar with in English, places can also be the direct object of motion verbs such as 「歩く」 and 「走る」. Since the motion verb is done to the location, the concept of direct object is the same in Japanese. However, as you can see by the next examples, it often translates to something different in English due to the slight difference of the concept of direct object.

English does the exact same thing. "I walked the pavement." "I ran the track." The nuance is almost exactly the same.

>When you use 「する」 with a noun, the 「を」 particle is optional and you can treat the whole [noun+する] as one verb.

Not all nouns can be treated as "one verb" when you do this, only "する verbs".

>With the 「に」 particle, the verb does something toward the word associated with the 「に」 particle. For example, the target of any motion verb is specified by the 「に」 particle.


>For example, the location of an object is defined as the target of the verb for existence (ある and いる). Time is also a common target. Here are some examples of non-motion verbs and their targets

You have decided upon the jargon "target" and now you're coiling yourself in convolution. You did this to yourself.

>The primary difference between the 「に」 and 「へ」 particle is that 「に」 goes to a target as the final, intended destination (both physical or abstract). The 「へ」 particle, on the other hand, is used to express the fact that one is setting out towards the direction of the target.

This is extremely easy to misinterpret as the opposite of what he's trying to convey because his explanation of に remains so unnatural.

>Note that we cannot use the 「へ」 particle with verbs that have no physical direction. For example, the following is incorrect.
> 医者[strikeout]へ[/strikeout]なる。
> (Grammatically incorrect version of 「医者になる」.)

Coiled in your own poor explanation of に.

>> No.17415664


>It may help to think of 「で」 as meaning "by way of". This way, the same meaning will kind of translate into what the sentence means. The examples will then read: "Saw by way of movie theater", "Go home by way of bus", and "Ate lunch by way of restaurant."

This only makes it harder for people to understand で.

>The 「から」 here meaning "because" is different from the 「から」 we just learned and will be covered later in the compound sentence section. Basically the point is that the two sentences, while written the same way, are read differently and mean completely different things.

The first sentence here is completely unrelated to everything after it, which is about なにで vs なんで. Also, he doesn't just side-note that から as in "from" attaches to things and から as in "because" attaches to statements, which would eliminate the confusion. He also could have found an example that doesn't use から.

>When direct object is the topic

He finally explains that は can be used for things that are nothing like a subject.

>In Japanese, sometimes there are two types of the same verb often referred to as transitive and intransitive verbs.

This is the first sentence of a nine-line paragraph that would be more helpful and more accurate if it were boiled down into "Intransitive and transitive verbs use different particles. Intransitive verbs don't accept a direct object with を. English does the same thing, you can't use a direct object with "die". Some things in Japanese have two verbs where English has one, like 落ちる and 落とす vs just "drop". It's important to know that Japanese has different vocabulary than English." which would be three lines plus a couple words.

>The important thing to remember is that intransitive verbs cannot have a direct object because there is no direct acting agent.

This is not because intransitive verbs have no agent. It is because they are "not transitive". Transitive verbs can express agentive actions, just not ones that also take a direct object as an argument. This is even worse because he follows it up with intransitive verbs of motion like 出る, some of which can obviously have a direct acting agent.

>Have you noticed how, many forms of verbs and the state-of-being conjugate in a similar manner to i-adjectives? Well, that is because, in a sense, they are adjectives.

He finally implies that ない is an i-adjective, but he does so in the context of using verbs "like adjectives" to make relative clauses. What the fuck.

>You can, however, have a string of nouns placed together when they're not meant to modify each other. For example, in a phrase such as "International Education Center" you can see that it is just a string of nouns without any grammatical modifications between them. It's not an "Education Center that is International" or a "Center for International Education", etc., it's just "International Education Center". In Japanese, you can express this as simply 「国際教育センタ」 (or 「センター」).

They are exactly modifying each other from left to right. This is just how compound words work. People learn this in Elementary school. You don't have to invent a "cool teacher" non-linguistic explanation for it. All it does is make it take longer to explain.

>Now that we've learned the concept of relative clauses and how they are used as building blocks to make sentences, I can go over how Japanese sentence ordering works. There's this myth that keeps floating around about Japanese sentence order that continues to plague many hapless beginners to Japanese. Here's how it goes.

Opening of an incorrect three paragraph tirade about Japanese not being an SOV language despite the fact that it absolutely is and Tae Kim just doesn't understand what that means or how to explain what implications it has.

>The 「と」 particle is similar to the 「も」 particle in that it contains a meaning of inclusion. It can combine two or more nouns together to mean "and".
>Another similar use of the 「と」 particle is to show an action that was done together with someone or something else.

He introduces と as an "inclusion" particle, and mentions that it can also include doing an action with someone or something else. He says that this is "another similar use" and doesn't tell the reader at all that it's semantically unrelated to the listing function that he covers right above and below.

>「とか」 also has the same meaning as 「や」 but is a slightly more colloquial expression.

とか doesn't actually have the same meaning as や.

>The 「の」 particle has many uses and it is a very powerful particle. It is introduced here because like the 「と」 and 「や」 particle, it can be used to connect one or more nouns.

These are completely unrelated forms of "connection" and when you compare them as similar things all you're doing is confusing people.

>> No.17415667


>The 「の」 particle in this usage essentially replaces the noun and takes over the role as a noun itself. We can essentially treat adjectives and verbs just like nouns by adding the 「の」 particle to it. The particle then becomes a generic noun, which we can treat just like a regular noun.

This is unrelated to everything else in this lesson, which is already a collection of random stuff confusing to learn as a set.

>To express state-of-being, when the 「の」 particle is used to convey this explanatory tone, we need to add 「な」 to distinguish it from the 「の」 particle that simply means "of".

No, you have to add な for the same reason you add な for the "generic noun" version of の. You are modifying の with a relative clause. You just covered this right before this. You are implying that the explanatory の and the generic nouns の have very different syntax, when they are fundamentally the same.

>Let's see some examples of the types of situations where this grammar is used. The examples will have literal translation to make it easier to see how the meaning stays the same and carries over into what would be very different types of sentences in normal English. A more natural English translation is provided as well because the literal translations can get a bit convoluted.

"I'm bad at explaining grammar, so I'm hiding behind incorrect literal translations."

>The adverb 「早く」 is a little different from the English word 'fast' in that it can mean quickly in terms of speed or time. In other words, Bob may have eaten his breakfast early or he may have eaten it quickly depending on the context. In other types of sentences such as 「早く走った」, it is quite obvious that it probably means quickly and not early. (Of course this also depends on the context.)

You're talking about はやく, not 早く. The kanji 早く is prescriptively only used with the "time" meaning, and sensible writers will make the distinction. The prescriptive kanji for the "speed" meaning is 速く, and again, sensible writers will make the distinction. By saying that 早く, as in the word written in kanji, has both meanings, you are isolating the learner from the distinction that some writers can make, and making it harder for them to understand for sure what good writer are saying, not easier. He spends two paragraphs on this, he can afford the verbage to explain what's actually going on in a concise way.

>> No.17415671

>A grammatically complete sentence does not even require a verb.
So Lesson 1 should be 体言止め

>> No.17415677

He does actually cover that in lesson 1 or 2. He just explains the idea behind "there has to be a statement" wrong by talking about verbs instead of statements.

>> No.17415681


>> No.17415695

What's this Tae Kim?

>> No.17415696


>> No.17415700
File: 704 KB, 806x628, 肩すかしくらった.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I don't really understand this sentence. 肩すかし is some kind of crazy fighting move that she くらった receives? That's the meaning I arrive at with rikai... It's weird because 1-2 lines before that, they were arguing about what to buy, but then 佳織 was yelling like "ええええぇ" and then this line

>> No.17415708

Look up 肩透かしを食う.

>> No.17415733

wtf I don't know basic grammar anymore

>> No.17415750

DOBJG will clear up a lot of weird explanations TK gives.

>> No.17415755

In the sense that reading Spiderman does not make you any more literate

>> No.17415759

It does though.

>> No.17415770

But that's how you get urban youths to read

>> No.17415789
File: 146 KB, 720x720, [Elysium]Lucky.Star.EP24(BD.720p.AAC.DA)[05560B35]_[00:04:21.844]_[2017.08.02][02:40:16].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Is there a list out there anywhere of all the 形声文字 (or at least all the ones in the jouyou set)?

>> No.17415796
File: 35 KB, 537x515, 1412281103942.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>learning japanese in english

>> No.17415799

Or VJG or HJGP or even Sakubi. TK is just that confusing.

>> No.17415806

I too started my Japanese learning career by opening up a Japanese grammar book and staring at the characters until I knew what they meant.

>> No.17415818

By the way I also tried to do this with Imabi a couple months ago but quit three or so lessons in because the writing was too bad to criticize in short wording.

>> No.17415857

What resources would you say are actually reliable for reading about grammar?

Or are you in the "learn it through exposure" camp which rejects grammar guides altogether?

>> No.17415859

oh shit now i dont know if i even know japanese anymore

>> No.17415868

I recommend Sakubi for Japanese grammar guides written in English. DOJG is also good but it's not really a guide so much as... well, a dictionary.

>> No.17415874


The guy who wrote it himself admits that he isn't even close to fluent.

>> No.17415876

Actual person you're responding to, use whatever you can.

Grammar guides give you an extremely useful foundation even if they're confusing. The most important thing is that you move on to reading as soon as possible.

Reading is much better for learning grammar than grammar guides. The only reason people don't jump straight into reading is because reading gives so much less non-linguistic context that it's almost impossible to pick up the basics: >>17415806

>> No.17415879

don't have to be fluent to outdo someone who tries too hard to be the "cool teacher" and someone else who tries too hard to be the "edgy linguist"

>> No.17415882

Sakubi only covers bits of grammar that you don't have to be fluent to understand properly. It had a couple dysfluent example sentences but I can't find any anymore, I think he replaced them with quotes from VNs and fixed the ones he didn't replace.

>> No.17415885

Chill somewhere else Sakubi-kun.

>> No.17415887

are we randomly accusing anons of being people we don't like now

imabi detected.

>> No.17415898

Should I read Sakubi if I've already done Tae Kim? I'm also thinking of watching VJG.

>> No.17415899

You've got nothing to lose if you weren't going to use that time reading anyway.

But if you're not confused about anything in particular I think you should stick to reading.

>> No.17415903

only one of those was made by a native japanese linguist with major academia creds so id go with that one

>> No.17415905
File: 41 KB, 736x440, d2a5c2e3b182af5518d714b4307623a6--melting-face-horror-movie-posters.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw just spent 8 hours reading tae kim and learned hiragana and katakana from the start and did my first 60 new words on anki and 5 pages of notes

how do i stop to take a break before i burn out and quit before i even really get started with learning this shit

>> No.17415909

better switch to sakubi before your blood runs out

>> No.17415911

Basically just stick to 20-30 words a day in Anki for a couple months to see if that's comfortable. The majority of people can't handle 60 I think. And remember, it's better to turn off new cards to work on review mountains than it is to limit reviews or, god forbid, drop Anki.

>> No.17415917

Thinking about it again sakubi does seem like a waste of time. I'll still do VJG anyways.

>> No.17415921

VJG is very time consuming, just look stuff up in HJGP. https://core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/

>> No.17415923
File: 144 KB, 332x376, 1444836012508.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So he can't even produce correct sentences using simple grammar that "you don't have to be fluent to understand properly", yet he thinks he's in a position to write a grammar guide explaining how Japanese works to people?

>> No.17415926

it's jsut many of the first words are familiar from anime so i kept adding more and more i'll put it down to 25 for tomorrow

>> No.17415928

Please select which one of these is grammatically normal.


No cheating.

>> No.17415932

Not that guy, but first one right? Second one sounds weird.

>> No.17415940

Imabi and Tae Kim had dysfluent example sentences too (remember the "to use a person for the future" debacle?), so if you're going to critique Sakubi for that, you have to critique Tae Kim and Imabi too.

>> No.17415942

vjg is very time consuming but so is learning japanese

it gives you the shit you need to survive and having it explained to you with visuals can be effective

if it wasnt effective or good they wouldnt have gone to the trouble so dont let anyone dissuade you from going through with it

make sure you complete the accompanying materials in addition to watching the lessons

>> No.17415943

>60 new words on anki

30 is too much. It's not just about how much you're capable of learning in a day, it's how many daily reviews you end up as a result of it.

The amount of reviews you end up having to do even at a pace of 20 a day eventually becomes quite high.

>> No.17415944

That's right. Sakubi used to say 助かってもらう in the て form section. It wasn't until he had to edit the て form section because he realized he never finished restructuring the first half of the guide that he changed it to 助けてもらう. I can't find a single post telling him that it was wrong, so I can only assume that his Japanese improved a lot since the original draft.

Those first drafts are the ones where he said he wasn't fluent. Hell, the guide might have been picked up by a different author. The first drafts were completely anonymous, we don't know.

>> No.17415945

I did 30 so I guess I'm biased.

>> No.17415949

"Did"? Not "do"?

>> No.17415950

and sakubi is completely public domain so people can just fix mistakes unlike tae kim and imabi which are attribution-licensed and fully protected respectively. sakubi is also a single file probably to make this easier, a long time ago someone on /a/'s djt was trying to strip down tae kim to just the grammar explanations without any of the rants and they gave up before finishing the first 1/3 of it. might even be the same guy.

>> No.17415981

Just fucking do it. Do something. Learn something. Read something. Get to the point where you can just read jap grammar books and leave this garbage behind as soon as you can.

>> No.17415997

and let's not forget actual Japanese dictionaries for words

>> No.17416010

why would you read japanese grammar guides if you can read japanese
why would you make it hard to look up words when you can get 90% of the quality benefit of switch from edict to J-J by switching from edict to kenkyuusha

>> No.17416017

You can't learn Japanese.

>> No.17416019

i know more japanese than you

>> No.17416023

prove it faggot

>> No.17416026

i'm not the one giving people advice man, pretty sure it's people giving advice that have to prove their japanese skill level

>> No.17416042
File: 45 KB, 567x437, 1501086755055.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Not him, but i wish i had started with less new words on anki. I did 100 new words a day for almost a month and got really burnded out. It was some years ago and i still didin't get back to learning japanese seriously after that.

>> No.17416045

I passed my 3rd year of studying Japanese awhile ago and dropped Anki at the end of year 2.

>> No.17416053

>wanted to go through todays words again because trouble remembering them
>added more new ones for todays count
i need to go read the manual

>> No.17416255

I just wanted to thank whoever keeps the mega folder for podcasts, they've been a huge help.

>> No.17416332

which one is that in the core? pod101?

>> No.17416344
File: 62 KB, 618x620, 1461995988032.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anons, do any of you guys understand what "クズが!" means in this context? Pic related.

I tried to google it, and seems like a Japanese meme, but I couldn't understand well enough.

>> No.17416346

Are video game reading?

>> No.17416363

Don't get discouraged by thoughts that other people may be learning the language faster than you.
Countless people have spoken and written in fluent Japanese for hundreds of years before you even began.
You won't be left behind; you will become part of that great tradition.

>> No.17416364

Does everything have to be a meme nowadays? Chill out, fucker.

>> No.17416370


What are all the things in this sentence doing? Like, what's up with the table and the gaze and the grooves in said table? I honestly can't piece together what exactly is going on between しわを刻んだような年代物のテーブル and the 落ち着かないような視線

>> No.17416433

Nevermind, I figured it out. しわを刻む meant something else.

Thanks all

>> No.17416515

How come there's no children's cartoon that teaches Nip like Dora teaches Spanish

>> No.17416538

Why would there be?

>> No.17416571

You'd think someone would've made an anime of that by now.

>> No.17416582

Yeah, but it's not as profitable as making generic moeshit anime and taking advantage of consumerist otaku.

>> No.17416592

In the end, money talks, and impoverished weebs don't.

>> No.17416603

they know that a big part of the appeal to anything japanese for westerners is the mysterium so theyre going to keep you out by any means necessary

>> No.17416606

Did audio stop working for anyone else in Rikaisama/Yomichan today? I can't hear any sound in the dictionary on the japanesepod101 website either so they must've broken something.

>> No.17416612

The former. 助ける isn't an u-verb because 助け is used like a noun quite frequently in newspaper

>> No.17416615

Look more closely.

>> No.17416639

Why isn't there just one or the other?

>> No.17416647

The latter is intransitive I'm assuming? I dont think I've heard 助かる actually used.

>> No.17416650

Yes, and it's very common. 助ける is just even more common.

If you don't hear 助かった on a regular basis you probably don't know Japanese.

>> No.17416656

Who cares

>> No.17416664

Define "very common." Would I see it frequently in mathematics articles, e-mails, or?

>> No.17416671

As in 助ける only shows up 200% as often as 助かる in normal Japanese, including conversations in offices etc.

>> No.17416675

I meant more like an anime aimed at children.

>> No.17416681

If you're using Rikaisama for frequency information, then you can only generalize as far as novels. But your conclusion still holds, as I am nowhere near fluent, if that is the definition of "knowing Japanese."

>> No.17416684

I'm not using Rikaisama's frequency information, its frequency information is very bad.

>> No.17416689

Interesting how your "200%" calculation is a rounded-down result from the ratio of the two numbers in Rikaisama's frequency information then.

>> No.17416695

It's a rounded-up result from https://vnscripts.neocities.org/VNFreqList.tsv

>> No.17416699

Also offices use 助かる more than novels because 助かった is basically a "Thanks for doing X for me" stock response.

>> No.17416701

So your frequency information is sampled from visual novels, and what makes that superior to Rikaisama's, which samples similar (but not necessarily identical) content?

>> No.17416703

Rikaisama's frequency data used an extremely bad lexical analysis dictionary, IPAdic. This frequency list uses Unidic which is much, much less awful.

>> No.17416716

Thanks for the actual response. Would it still be reliable for telling which kanji is more frequently used in words with several kanji? ex: 会う vs 逢う vs 遇う

>> No.17416718

There's spelling variation data on the rightmost sets of 5 fields in each row but it's not normalized based on the length of the VN like lemma frequency data is so take it with a cup of salt.

>> No.17416942


>> No.17417064

Does anyone know of a way of automatically dumping vocabs into a csv maybe by clicks or keyboard strokes?
I'm aware yomi/rikai can do it directly into anki, but I'm looking for something that outputs to a CSV instead.

>> No.17417083
File: 99 KB, 532x692, na_nouns.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

the -i adjective means literally small

>> No.17417145

What the fuck is that retarded romanisation?

>> No.17417150

jsl probably

>> No.17417152

I know, faggot.

>> No.17417195

my second read through of tae kim is going much better now that i have 6 weeks of study under my belt

>> No.17417214

Have you noticed the drinking problem yet? Its a common thread in his example sentences
hell he probably wrote the whole thing drunk as a skunk

>> No.17417311



>> No.17417346

Yeah, audio isn't working for me either.

>> No.17417351
File: 1.23 MB, 1700x1129, #prayforrikai.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

not working for me either

>> No.17417375


>> No.17417486

Has anyone here tried kimera coffee to help with studying?

I've seen some people talk about fish oil before, but now I found this "Turbocharge your brain" coffee that has fish compounds and more other stuff in it beneficial to the brain.

If no one here tried it I'll order some and see how it goes. Kinda expensive though.

>> No.17417522

snake oil. modafinil isn't

>> No.17417591

how long do daily reviews take when you get to like 2000+ words?

>> No.17417604
File: 68 KB, 666x632, 145971991004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>fail a year-old mature card

>> No.17417607

You mean 2000+ words learned total or 2000+ big piles of reviews?

For me it was half an hour to an hour every day until I completed core6k and now it's going down again to like 5-10 mins.
But I only have 59 reps total today and most are from my mining deck.

>> No.17417608

roughly an hour at my 4.2 seconds per card average
i know that feel, but better to fail it

>> No.17417630



>> No.17417638

てめえら どきやがれ
>Stand aside, you bastards!

how is the "stand aside" created?
i cant find a meaning for どき that would justify this translation.

>> No.17417639

I think it depends on how fast you got to that 2000.

>> No.17417642
File: 11 KB, 240x240, d-l4eFSi_400x400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17417650
File: 110 KB, 1143x993, 1500624663073.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17417708

Today i'm going to go to the point of no return and learn the Kanji meme.
Imabi has a nice little "Kanji by grade" section.

Any advice?

>> No.17417743





>> No.17417793

Doesn't modafinil cause a strange skin reaction though?

>> No.17417818
File: 45 KB, 400x351, どいて.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17417840

any drug small enough to get through the BBB into the organ we know barely anything about is guaranteed a side effect profile of not nice things
You don't take it for those

>> No.17417853
File: 60 KB, 500x500, 1454345312001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What are some good Japanese youtube channels?

>> No.17417878
File: 209 KB, 510x346, 1439457413378.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Ah yes, of course, the true structure of the japanese language is the copulate pretense monofufu, but only in the syntax of accelerated particles. Be careful not to use the declarative "if" statement however, as this will change the verb stem from normal to prerogative.

>> No.17417882

I like
Nintendo/Pokemon/Square Enix Official Channels

For cooking:
へたくそ料理 runnyrunny999

I subscribed to a lot more once but they all started to go on my nerves with time.

>> No.17417887

I watch asmr by cute girls.

>> No.17417923


Do you know of any where the focus is more on someone just talking about stuff? e.g. (Sorry, I don't have any Japanese examples I can post so both of these are English channels):
Just standing in front of a camera and talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDrAY5Vqow
Video presentation with lots of talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydVFqpbIIwA

>> No.17417928

Whats some good Light Novels with simple enough grammar that you enjoyed recently? I dont know much about Light Novels but i figure at least trying to read something would help.

>> No.17417933


>> No.17417946

Really? Based on the impression that anime in general gave me, i would think light novels based around otaku stuff would pile on super complicated kanji and grammar and shit to try to sound cool. I'll try it out thanks

>> No.17417948

I don't really have a specific example.
You can check what's popular in Japan and find one you like:

>> No.17417967

Oh, thanks for that. I'll have a look and see if I can find any.

>> No.17417970

I've been reading Oreimo. The grammar really isn't as bad as you might think. So far, everything I did not understand has been in DOAJG

>> No.17417974

Yeah but you're reading Oreimo. I'm not sure why you would do that with your free time.

>> No.17417990

I'll keep it in mind

>> No.17417993

Why the fuck can't I remember my hiragana? I'm consistent in my memory, what should I do?

>> No.17417994

Read more.

>> No.17418009

Go play some baby games like Pokemon. It's pretty much 100% kana so if you dont have it down pat after like 2 badges you didn't even try.

>> No.17418013

write it.
writing is so underestimated. its literally your body learning the letter. say it loud while writing it.

i still sadkek hard when i think how many years it took me to figure this out.

>> No.17418021

bumpidity bump

>> No.17418027

I do write it. Then I get depressed because my handwriting is shit and doesn't look like what I see on screen.

>> No.17418029

my friends mom is japanese and he spends every summer in japan and he got to learn it naturally and easy it's so unfair they sound like anime when i hear them talk while playing vidya on voice chat okaasan and all

>> No.17418031

i'm looking but I can't find the subscribe button
can you help me

>> No.17418035

>Why the fuck can't I remember my hiragana?
Because you don't have to.

As the other guy said play a video game and try to finish it. I'd recommend a JRPG because then you'll be forced to learn Katakana too to get to cities and remember names of important stuff.

>> No.17418037

thx 4 reading my blog pls like it really helps


>> No.17418039

My handwriting for あ is kinda shit, but everything else is k if you follow stroke order.

And Sakubi is the one who is a high school drop out linguist wannabe who sucks Steve Kaufmann's dick 24/7

>> No.17418043

fuck if rikai sound doesn't come back I'll be sad :(

>> No.17418051

how sad really, missing out on Ms. high strung and Ms. languid

>> No.17418052

At least Sakubi/djt doesn't follow the "learn words, not kanji" meme that leddit dicksucks so often.
Just look at this:

>> No.17418056

I'll think of another game besides Pokemon, since I know how to play that without reading anything. I guess I still need to remember the abilities.

How do I write シ and ツ different? I mean, I know what to do but my hands are shit. を ふ む are all hard to write to, with a pencil especially.

>> No.17418057

I just like having audio on my cards. I even go out of my way to acquire audio for the "NOAUDIO" words and expressions

>> No.17418063

>I even go out of my way to acquire audio for the "NOAUDIO" words and expressions
how many words can you get on fiverr?

>> No.17418069

I don't go THAT far, I just get words from forvo

>> No.17418071

ふ and む are cool enough to do with a pen (i'm used to writing in cursive in the normal alphabet), を can get a bit hard though and i ocasionally mess it up.

シ and ツ are easy to write differently, just try using the stroke order!

>> No.17418091

>Then I get depressed because my handwriting is shit and doesn't look like what I see on screen.

if everybody who tried to learn something would think like this we would still live in caves.

read up on tofugus stroke order rules so you dont need to learn the exact stroke order and practice. every single time you write this it gets a tiny bit morei ngrained into your head.

>> No.17418095

damm i need this. if not just for 屋根裏部屋 but 編集者

>> No.17418129

Apart from the presence of genki that looks all right actually.

>> No.17418157

変質者 rather

>> No.17418180

Newfag here, what's wrong with Genki? I already downloaded it.

>> No.17418194
File: 1.38 MB, 1440x900, ss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>blog on
I remember seeing that ~~なくたって once before in the game and being a bit confused but now I can see that was a pretty simple construction!
The problem was that I didn't know that was possible since なくた doesn't exist and I was perceiving that たって as a normal past form followed but って
>blog off

>> No.17418196
File: 66 KB, 1601x750, 1500949904192.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Wanikani Route
It's great to see the best kanji learning resource™ out there being represented.

>> No.17418212

It'll waste your time with exercises, uses language nothing like how it appears in real life, and in my opinion oversimplifies too much. There are much better resources that will get you started much faster.

>> No.17418260

This is right, it doesnt deserve that name. More like 憂鬱

>> No.17418272
File: 93 KB, 504x663, 2017-08-03_15-31-37.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How is your mining deck setup?

>> No.17418278
File: 805 KB, 1200x1837, refinedsetup.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17418283
File: 15 KB, 822x620, ducky.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17418302

Might as well not add any examples with shitty sentences like that.

>> No.17418310

Can I do the yotsuba reading pack decks instead of Core2K first? I'm planning to finish Core2K also but I burnt out after just 500 words. It really helps my learning when you work towards a goal and you can see your progress when you read rather than just grinding vocabulary.

>> No.17418314

It's an example sentence plugin, I don't do it manually. They are not all trash

>> No.17418328

News flash
You don't have to finish Core2K

>> No.17418335
File: 20 KB, 490x522, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Mine is pretty basic.
Do you add pictures manually to every word you mine?

>> No.17418358
File: 530 KB, 1006x4018, 1279521116663.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>tfw I just read that sentence in Hanahira and didn't mine this word because Rikai sound is broken right now

>> No.17418360
File: 34 KB, 362x269, paste-863288426497.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Do you add pictures manually to every word you mine?
No, when I find words in stuff I read on the computer, then I snip the part where I found it to remind myself.
Like I added pic related for 柄頭

I sometimes do google image search instead of looking in a dictionary to see if I guessed correctly and then I also add an image because it takes no time to hit ctrl+c and v.

Still, less than 5% of my mined cards have images because I'm too lazy most of the time.

>> No.17418386

I know this is a bit of a pedantic question, but when you're reading Kanji, do you think:

>[Japanese translation] -> [English translation] (e.g. 'This is 'toki', that means 'time').
>Straight to English translation (e.g. 'This means 'time'').

I usually do the latter and I feel I should be proud for recognising it, but a part of me feels like I'm kind of half-assing my learning and it'll come back to bite me for things like listening to Japanese.

>> No.17418387

This >>17418328
Don't be an Anki drone

>> No.17418388
File: 580 KB, 889x1001, snip.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I only bother to add images to vocab cards for things which could benefit from having a stronger visual association. Food, plants and animals, that sort of thing.

>> No.17418394

Neither is optimal. Ideally you want to understand the words in Japanese and move on.

>> No.17418410
File: 14 KB, 320x240, d8e2ff420ab2bd7002a21fad9d4bd5d8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yeah, I mostly do that too, especially when it's stuff I don't even know how it looks like, for example 野沢菜 I had to look up.

Sometimes I leave out the english translation and just add the image, like here for the word たすき.

I also like to add images for onomatopoeia, best case an animted gif that shows the action.

When it's not beneficial at all I don't add an image unless it's right in front of me.

>> No.17418411
File: 164 KB, 850x691, 1466872186504.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17418419

I'm sure this is something that varies from person to person, but is it better to do your studying in large chunks, or in little pieces? I tend to do 10 or 15 minutes of studying, then take a little break and come back, but I feel like that's wrong for some reason.

>> No.17418422

30m with breaks (that often ended in procrastination) is what i did when i first started.
When you can absorb enough on your own 1h is reccomended.

>> No.17418430

Started doing 2k a couple months ago, and usually I check the kanji in either jisho or kanji alive for radicals/hints to help me going.
Today, I arrived at the word 踊る, and after a brief search, I also found 舞 and 舞踊. Are really all of them carrying the same meaning, or is there a "socially acceptable" version for everyday speech?

>> No.17418433

If I don't do Anki in one go then it gets exponentially slower with every break I take.

>> No.17418440
File: 311 KB, 765x1216, snip.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Don't have an image for 手繦 but do for 甚平。
There are a couple of plants in my deck which I am now more familiar with in Japanese than English, thanks mainly to the image association. Say, if some flowers were growing in a park I happen to be walking through, chances are I'd be able to point out they were called 立葵 but not really sure what they are called in English. Some sort of holly rose something or other? I don't know. 朝顔 are those trumpet looking flowers. They've all got universal Latin names so it probably doesn't matter too much if you can't recall the English name.

>> No.17418464

Yeah same goes for me.
Don't forget 山茶花 and 牡丹!

>> No.17418467

Read more.

>> No.17418477

I do very small increments throughout the day. I'm terrible at studying.

>> No.17418528

>djt doesn't follow the "learn words, not kanji" meme
These threads are full of people promoting this method and there's even a section in the guide about it.

>> No.17418547

Indeed, me included. I think it's strange how some people find learning kanji in isolation better, but whatever floats your boat. My strongest opinion on the topic is that there is no one objectively best method, everyone learns differently.

>> No.17418551

>My strongest opinion on the topic is that there is no one objectively best method, everyone learns differently.
False, if you learn to write every kanji it's objectively better, but more time consuming.

>> No.17418558

>it's objectively better, but more time consuming
that's not how it works...

>> No.17418565

why not just learn the words and the kanji just fuckin learn it all you aint got shit else to do get it done mother fucker

if you want more motivational posts like this one just let me know by upvoting

>> No.17418569

It's not, though. You're wasting a lot of time and at the end you still can't read Japanese.

>> No.17418570

You're objectively better at recalling them longtime.

Guess it comes down to how you define better.
Learning a language is not a race.

>> No.17418586

I was talking about kanji as in feelings

>> No.17418592

>You're wasting a lot of time
I'm not so sure about that.
Instead of half an hour of anki it's 15 mins more because you write some kanji.

The rest of your study day is exactly the same.
Unless you spend 24/7 a day reading no time is wasted.

>> No.17418595

Literally every time I have started using something, someone else coincidentally mentions it in the thread as bad. Is taekim the only good grammar guide?

>> No.17418598
File: 180 KB, 681x1200, 1dgf6WI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Tae Kim is one of the worst, actually

>> No.17418607

No it's shit

>> No.17418609

just because you learn Kanji doesn't mean you don't have to learn vocab, so it's extra time

>> No.17418610
File: 22 KB, 309x236, angry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Fuck it, I just want to read. I'll just start going through books with imiwa and eventually I'll start learning things.

>> No.17418617


>> No.17418624
File: 93 KB, 960x458, Angery+_0a0cfa25ea794c9ae99b38bbce9d0a16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17418625

There's no one "perfect" guide. Your best bet is to use multiple resources to learn grammar. I used Tae Kim to get my feet wet but I've looked up stuff in the DoJG, watched 日本語の森 videos, and straight up googled shit to learn a lot of grammar.

>> No.17418649

I did tae kim until i got bored and looked everything i didn't understand upon reading either in DoJG, Sakubi, fuckin google sometimes, or asking here if i was desperate. It's been working ok.

>> No.17418710

I strongly recommend Japanese The Manga Way. If you're feeling brave you might also try out sakubi, although it's quite new and I'm not sure how it's doing at the moment.

>> No.17418730

That book isn't perfect either. It's filled to the brim with ローマ字

>> No.17418780

Who cares? A bit of romaji won't kill you.

>> No.17418788

How do I make a mine deck?

>> No.17418789

there is literally no reason to ever have romaji after the intro chapter with a chart of kana and a text that tells you to go to a fucking website that lets you grind them until it comes naturally

>> No.17418802
File: 74 KB, 640x492, お前の.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

you just take the words and they're yours, my friend

>> No.17418813

I agree it's dumb, but if you already have the kana memorised seeing a bit of romaji by accident isn't going to hurt you.

>> No.17418850

What's the Japanese word for child-bearing hips? I swear I've seen it before but I can't find it anywhere now

>> No.17418867

it literally does it's incredibly harmful if you think about some word like baby for example and in your head you see aka-chan instead of 赤ちゃん

>> No.17418869

I'm doing Manga Way currently, I just right it as kana in my notes

>> No.17418901

is making an anki account safe? i need to go to a funeral soon so i won't be home for a few days though i guess the application itself would is probably already botnet so giving them one of my emails wouldn't change anything

>> No.17418923

lol paranoia
let me guess youre also afraid of using chrome

>> No.17418925

How is that association harmful? It might even be useful to you if you want to type fluently with an IME.
More importantly when it comes to reading, so long as you keep reading Japanese your brain will quickly throw any such associations away, because it simply has no use for them. In a similar way you will find familiar words commonly written in kanji hard to read if they're written in kana, because your brain doesn't bring up the kana anymore, only the sound.

>> No.17418971

will many job opportunities open for me if i learn japanese?

>> No.17418974

English teaching is one I can think of

>> No.17418978

you could write the next grammar guide!

>> No.17418979

that's only if you're from the UK/US/AU/ZA/NZ

>> No.17418988

Hehe I just cheated by looking at grammar for N1. When I eventually coming upon this grammar point while reading porn, I will already know what it means

>> No.17418990

Then none. If you don't already have a job, you're not going to magically get one because you were able to learn a "hard" language.

>> No.17418998

Nope. I'm deluding myself into thinking that I'll eventually get good enough at sculpting to attend AKGarden or Wonfes as a circle and eventually get a job with Kotobukiya, but I know that's not really going to happen. Just makes me feel a bit better than admitting that I'm learning it so I can play prostitute raising simulators.

>> No.17419002

So I'm having a problem with Rikaisama: it never plays audio at all anymore. Not when I press the key nor when I hover. I've rebooted firefox and even my computer. Does anybody have an idea?

>> No.17419014

The server which serves the audio isn't responding. Just wait and it will probably be fixed.

>> No.17419017

Not really. If you are a "highly skilled worker" you may land a job there but I wouldn't count on it.

>> No.17419023


>> No.17419031

Is there any way to get audio for my mining deck if I didn't use the automatic import feature to create the cards?

>> No.17419036

Maybe you can be a translator for Funimation

>> No.17419084


>> No.17419094
File: 204 KB, 750x1000, 1500762805099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Toy making. I call it sculpting so I don't feel like the manchild I really am. I might actually have a chance to get a job with Daibadi if my shamrock mods turn out well. They're still small.

>> No.17419145


>> No.17419155

You probably saw it in a Mikakunin image with a Benio blushing saying that she has a big rack and child bearing hips, look for that image and find it out.

>> No.17419171

Got a couple of friends from Venezuela that are doing AI research at the University of Tokyo. If third-worlders can do it so can you.

>> No.17419181

That sounds cool as fuck, not gonna lie. I don't think you can land a job in Japan that isn't STEM related unless you have connections though.
Luckly I am in STEM

>> No.17419189

Found it, 安産型

>> No.17419279
File: 1 KB, 127x34, 420.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Reading is so much faster now that I've only mined 4/20 of the amount that I usually do daily.
Maybe I shouldn't mine every single word if it means I will only read half the amount of text? I mean, if a word is common enough, it will show up again anyway, so it's no use worrying about "missing words", right?

>> No.17419341

It doesn't matter if you have a backlog anyway, but why would mining words take time? It's one button.

>> No.17419355

I add an image with the sentence which is +2 presses
if the word has no sound then it's like 10 more presses to download it

>> No.17419436

What program is the screenshot from?

>> No.17419440

Any resource with graded Kanji that features stroke order?
I know most people here consume instead of producing, but it would be greatly appreciated if someone knows abotu what i mentioned.

>> No.17419444

All popular Kanji learning resources have stroke order. Though after having written a few hundred Kanji you won't even be thinking about or needing the stroke order as it begins to come naturally.

>> No.17419452

It's just the "Styled 2" html file from this guide: http://pastebin.com/raw/DgZ84qwk
it's just text hooking

>> No.17419463

i downloaded the kangxi radical deck from djtguide and i don't know what to do with it because it only has the kanji and the english word, am i just supposed to memorize which kanji is which english word? are there supposed to be no readings to learn for them?

>> No.17419473

RTK & KKLC use their own Kanji order, but i intend to learn by school grade order (OCD + can track my progress)

All i see is mmemonic books or radicals, which is unfortunate.

>> No.17419479

it's not teaching kanji, it's teaching radical concepts.

>> No.17419484

Any reason you want to learn by school grade? Personally I see it as absolutely pointless and needlessly complicated for a person that does not speak Japanese as their native language. I don't know about RTK but KKLC is ordered in a way that clusters similar Kanji, which is something that benefits learners that aim for proficiency.

>> No.17419519

OCD, just feels like the natural progress option, i'll check KKLC though.

>> No.17419537

Is there audio for the core 2k deck?

>> No.17419571


>> No.17419599

I love you, anon

>> No.17419795


>> No.17419845

vn scripts for leyline 2 and 3


>> No.17419849

I need SCRIPT.SRC too, otherwise I can't tell names from text.

>> No.17419870

k i reuploaded


>> No.17420005

I burned myself out on kanji study about a year ago doing something insane like 50 new cards a day.
I want to get back to it but not start from the absolute beginning (numbers, etc) because I've retained most of those. is there a setting or something I should check to help re-acclimating or should I just jump back in?

>> No.17420009



when you find kanji you don't know add it to mining deck

>> No.17420130

Is getting a salary really that prevalent in Japan or is it just them fucking up the translation again?

>> No.17420138


Most people with real jobs get salaries

>> No.17420183

Quit learning japanese about a month ago when i started getting into the more advanced vocab. I constantly ran into exactly the same looking kanji and couldn't tell them apart without viewing them at the same time. Is there a way to overcome this?

>> No.17420194


>> No.17420195

Draw them both and notice the differences.

>> No.17420196

>Is there a way to overcome this?
Learn to write them

>> No.17420211

Try a radical deck. If that doesn't work, the mnemonic books absolutely will solve this problem for you, but they're even more tedious and dry than the worst grammar textbook.

>> No.17420237


That's all you need to know for stroke orders.

>> No.17420340

By reading more

Everything can be solved by reading more

>> No.17420402

>I constantly ran into exactly the same looking kanji and couldn't tell them apart without viewing them at the same time. Is there a way to overcome this?
Hmm, I don't know. It's not like it's possible to learn kanji or anything, so I guess you're screwed :(

>> No.17420412

pretty much anyone that isnt salaried is a freeter

>> No.17420508
File: 143 KB, 1065x683, nuance.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

book by shoko hamano, a linguistics professor. academia loves JSL for some reason.

but you're right, perhaps the level of this text is too high for people still learning their japanese from korean immigrants. besides, it contains romaji, it must be shit.

>> No.17420514
File: 226 KB, 396x384, 1444712672685.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How many average-length VNs does it take to hit upper-intermediate level?

For the sake of this post, let's say 1 route = a VN, and each extra route you do on top of that = half a VN (because you've already read the common route, which accounts for about half the length), so reading a VN with 5 routes would = 3 VNs.

>> No.17420515

>he still mines words

>> No.17420530

Wait until you see a word twice (or maybe even a few times) before you mine it, then you know it's useful. If it turns out to be so common that there's no point having a card for it, you can just delete it when it comes up in your reviews.

Later, when you stop coming across new words so frequently, you can start mining every word you see.

>> No.17420539

Is there pdf?

>> No.17420545
File: 360 KB, 720x404, 変なやつ.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>How many average-length VNs does it take to hit upper-intermediate level?
30 at around 90 Hayashi 2 https://vnscripts.neocities.org/stats.html
>For the sake of this post, let's say 1 route = a VN, and each extra route you do on top of that = half a VN (because you've already read the common route, which accounts for about half the length), so reading a VN with 5 routes would = 3 VNs.
All routes are one VN, as the stats are based on that. There are no shortcuts.

>> No.17420571

Making Sense of Japanese Grammar. It's in the CoR.

>> No.17420593

I'm about 800 words into Core2k right now, it's gonna be a couple years until I can read Murakami in Japanese, huh?

>> No.17420609

How many new words do you learn per day? Has your method worked so far?

>> No.17420668


I'm doing 20 new words per day, and I'm probably gonna have to cut that down to 10 honestly. It takes me about an hour to get through my reviews (very picky about hitting "again") and by the time I'm done with it I'm pretty tired out. It's hard to strike a good balance between effective study and wanting to hurry up and know everything.

>> No.17420671

So from your perspective then, it's 6 VNs containing 5 routes each in which you read every single route?

>> No.17420690

I can give you some time ineffective but eventually worked and what I learned stuck forever for me advice.

Take a VN you want to read, then look up everything you don't know, make flashcards, reread from the beginning, do flashcards, reread. I split the game up into arbitrary segments so I eventually wasn't rereading from the very start anymore. Keep making flashcards (it's important to understand every single thing in what you're reading so do your due diligence on that) and rereading. How you pace it is up to you so just do it in a way that makes sense for you.

Sure, it took four months to finish the game. But I wasn't in it to read the VN as much as I was to absorb a bunch of shit I didn't know. I just set aside a specific amount of time and did it every day for three months.

I know a huge amount of the shit I read stuck because suddenly I knew a lot more things upon looking at new texts where I began this process again.

>> No.17420692

Is 負け犬 the next level after Christmas Cake?

>> No.17420704

That sounds boring as fuck. It's boring enough already to read all these moeges as a grown ass man.

>> No.17420708

As long as you learn new words every day it should be good enough. Just keep learning, reading and listening and most importantly, have fun. I remember my embarassing korean experience where I wanted to learn 50 words a day. I stuck with it for 3 days and then stopped completely. Do what fits you the best and you will succeed.

>> No.17420740

korean is ez though because you can actually read hanguls

>> No.17420822
File: 1.18 MB, 1030x604, ccccccc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Its not from my perspective, its from the stats on VN difficulty. If you ignore any route, they become useless as a measure of difficulty by which you should be steadily increasing.

>> No.17420841

I don't really get it. What part of those stats suggests that 30 VN routes is the amount of reading it takes to reach upper-intermediate level Japanese ability? Where does this "30" figure from?

>> No.17420849

dont worry about labels and shit its all an illusion

>> No.17420851

I'm not really so interested in the label as the experience of actually being able to read and listen to things relatively comfortably without having to look up tons of words all the time.

>> No.17420854

>30 VN routes
30 VNs total, not routes.
And I pulled it both from my ass, and from someone else's post based on 'time before you are able to drop text hookers'

>> No.17420871

if you have to ask that then probably never honestly

>> No.17420874

>30 VNs total, not routes.
Ah right, I misinterpreted what you said in >>17420545

>All routes are one VN
I took this to mean a given route = 1 VN.

I should've probably realised my mistake. I was thinking that 6 VNs seemed like awfully little to have to read to reach that level.

>> No.17420886

From that link:
>Two, spend time thinking before checking the texthooker. It's very easy to just end up reflexively looking up a word in the texthooker instead of thinking which is bad since it's brainless and you will probably end up looking up words you would've remembered if you waited.
This is a very good point. Also applies to words you don't know, since you can often figure out their meaning from the kanji and from context

>> No.17420901

How much time does it take to read 30 VN?
I'm coming up on 1 year of reading, and I'm thinking about removing my texthooker since I'm probably relying on it too much.

>> No.17420912

Why does every torrented manga have such shit quality? It's such a pain to read. Yet every anime out there gets upscaled.

>> No.17420914

youre probably not relying on it too much and are instead just not taking any quality time with the text itself though there is something to be said about sitting cross legged on the floor flipping through a physical paperback kanji dictionary looking up kanji by rad and getting stoked when you find it exclaiming あった! late at night from your moms basement

>> No.17420919

>quality time

>> No.17420928

i dont know you so explain why you think youre relying too much on your texthooking hoopla before i make any further assumptions

>> No.17420943

What if I told you that you don't even need to read any VNs at all to reach upper-intermediate level.

>> No.17420947

you dont and you also dont even need to know more than a few hundred kanji and you can be literally fluent and mop the floors with the posters itt

click here to find out how

>> No.17420972

So that's why there's so many hiragana only posters

>> No.17421045


>> No.17421102

Recently discovered I retain a lot more if I study once in the morning and once at night, why do people not usually recommend studying twice a day?

>> No.17421111

Who recommends studying once or twice a day? How about studying at every possible moment?

>> No.17421135

however, you've hit on the difference between a hobby and an obsession
the best meme floating around in order to convert from one camp to the other is the use of 'compelling content'

>> No.17421138

Context: Its Saekano. 2 characters who haven't been introduced yet are talking at the end of the school day in an either empty or almost empty classroom. I'm assuming the loud one is the main character. Main character guy is giving a synopsis of some fictional story that he either just made up or read about the other day or something to this other person. He got really excited started yelling and it echoed. Meanwhile the other other person was trying to get a word in, probably to say they dont care or something. The person talking right now im assuming is the other person.

The first part of the sentence im guessing is something like
>Your Dream (that you barely remember) has been echoing non stop for 3 full minutes.
I'm not entirely sure what 「三〇分」means and what the circle doing, but i just sorta guessed with everything that's around it. 「教室中に響かせて」not sure what に does here cause it makes me think that the sound is traveling to the room, even tho the room as far as I can tell is their current location. Maybe its shaking the room? I also have no idea what even the basic nuance of the rest of the sentence is trying to say other than you're annoying the people outside.

I dunno i need help here. I ca probably skip over this and keep going, but i feel like I'll be getting a lot of stuff like this so better get used to it sooner than later.

>> No.17421176

So if Tae Kim, Genki, Japanese the Manga way, and every other guide is shit, how am I supposed to learn Japanese? Just start reading and guessing at how the grammar works?

>> No.17421188
File: 125 KB, 750x754, 8936311.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Talk to Japanese people

>> No.17421206

Watch anime

>> No.17421222

Trying to read kanji in non-stylized text is hurting my eyes. What do i do. Is this a windows problem

>> No.17421243

They're bad, but its not like there's a better alternative. pick which ever one works best for you, stick it out to the end, speed through it (at a reasonable pace tho), and ditch it as soon as you possibly can for a more comprehensive but less beginner friendly resource like a dictionary of japanese grammar.

>> No.17421258

>implying you should drink ever white wine with steak
You might get away with a gewurtztraminer

>> No.17421263
File: 128 KB, 304x369, 1498423445555.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17421270
File: 30 KB, 720x438, 1501712211766.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Sakubi is based

>> No.17421313

I genuinely can't believe how good google translate's kanji recognition is. It got 繋 just fine even though I half-assedly drew it with my laptop's touchpad.

>> No.17421422


It seems a little short. Is that gonna be okay? Am I really gonna be okay with this?

>> No.17421424

It covers more grammar points than Genki I and Genki II combined.

>> No.17421439

I'm trying to do Anki but I keep having to hit repeat because I'm not retaining it. I just don't recognize the writing. How do you manage to learn that?

>> No.17421443

http://ce.linedict.com is better imo

>> No.17421451

It takes time as in individual days during which the daily study reaches a reasonable saturation point, not time as in individual minutes of effort.

>> No.17421453

add more learning steps
use the production deck and write the vocab to drill it in

>> No.17421461


How long have you been doing it? When I first started, I couldn't learn the cards at all. But now I'm about 800 words deep, which still isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things. All I can really say is that they start you out with numbers and days of the week/month and those are all a huge pain in the ass to learn: the cards that are coming after those are a lot easier in my opinion.

>> No.17421489

Yeah for me it can identify poorly scanned kanji that just look like black boxes but for some reason there are times it can't even identify kanji that are clearly legible.

>> No.17421492

He's talking about the hand-drawing recognition on google translate web, not the photo recognition in the google translate app. They're both black magic.

>> No.17421511

When reading text online, is it normal to have to increase the size of it a bunch to be able to read it? I can't read comfortably unless I zoom the window to at least 125%.

>> No.17421533


>> No.17421544

3 days...

>> No.17421548

Silly anon, there's no such thing as gender.

>> No.17421559


I had a rough start, too. Just give yourself plenty of time, and don't get too worried about the start. In no time at all, you'll be recognizing kanji.

>> No.17421611

スクリーンショット後で一つを変えた (ARIALー>NOTO SANS)

>> No.17421671


This is a tiny bit terse for me. I'm gonna stick with Tae Kim after all, I think. After all, it seems to be agreed that the general strategy is "plow through a grammar guide and then refer to DoJG when you're done for everything else."

>> No.17421691

b cool

>> No.17421694

You're contradicting yourself. If you acknowledge that grammar guides are for "plowing through", then you shouldn't have a problem with Sakubi's "terseness".

>> No.17421697


Hm, you're right. It's late. I'll think about this tomorrow.

>> No.17421724

read like 8~ sections a day of sakubi a sorta leisurely. When you pass the gauntlet start reading. Refer back to it if you forget anything that was in it, refer to DOJG when u see anything you dont remember. Basically your readings substitute for the lack of explanations.

>> No.17421727

Lateness is relative. For some people, it's morning right now.

>> No.17421735

Also refer to HJGP

>> No.17421745


Should I make a mining deck as soon as I start reading? I'm nearing 1000 words in Core2k, and that doesn't seem like enough of a foundation to start "reading." Any other language, sure, but when I open a text and recognize about 5% of the kanji per page it's a little disheartening.

>> No.17421755


You must refer to ~んがために.

>> No.17421762

When i first gone through TK and was reading i felt like a retarded Russian drunken baby who was trying to count to ten.
It will snap into you one day while reading.
Go through flavour of the month grammar guide, read while using it as reference.
That's it.

>> No.17421773

>I'm nearing 1000 words in Core2k, and that doesn't seem like enough of a foundation to start "reading."
Don't think like this. You can read a hiragana-only children's book if the kanji are bothering you so much. Just keep reading and mine. Eventually you'll know all the words on the page.
I stopped Core (about 600 words in) when I started Mining and it's been working for me so far.

>> No.17421782



>> No.17421823

what does ところで mean here?
Doesn't make sense if it's the usual meaning, makes sense though if it's ところ then で, is that right?

>> No.17421829

nvm, I got it.

>> No.17421832

Yeah check both desu

Yes, but don't get too carried away with mining especially since you're just starting out. If you're reading One Piece you're gonna wanna Mine 海賊 cause its gonna be on every other page ya know?
If you're doing light novels, you can ctrl-f to see how many times a certain kanji or phrase shows up.

Typically If I see something and remember seeing it earlier, I'll check to see how many times it shows up in later and I'll mine it if it shows up more than 10 times, or if it shows up less than 10 times but its far off from where I currently am. Also if its blatantly obvious im gonna see it alot like with the 海賊 example.

Basically dont bother mining literally everything. Save mining every word you don't know for when every word you don't know isn't 2000 of the kanji that appear in the book.

>> No.17421834

Is Flying Witch readable for a complete beginner, or for someone just having read some Yotsuba?

>> No.17421841

Anything is readable if you try hard enough.

>> No.17421849

Its easier to just read the first 5 pages and see for yourself if its outta your depth.

>> No.17421858
File: 13 KB, 701x241, Skärmklipp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17421866

Is Yotsuba readable for a complete beginner, or for someone just having read some 源氏物語?

>> No.17421879
File: 15 KB, 700x474, Screenshot_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17421912

Download the JDIC Audio from the CoR and use that. It has a few hundred thousand mp3 files worth of words, and I think it is the one Rikaisama uses.

>> No.17421916

>旅客 - りょかく
I always answer this card as りょきゃく which is an alternate pronunciation.
How should such an answer be marked? It's wrong based on the card, but kinda right based on the word.

>> No.17421920

りょきゃく is less common and you should mark an answer of りょきゃく as wrong.

>> No.17421927 [DELETED] 

I post Sakubi to upset people in the other thread. What about you guys?

>> No.17421948

What colour is 「淡い水色」? The word sounds redundant. 「水色」 already looks like a 「薄い色」 to me. I'm looking at Daijirin's definition and example.

>> No.17421951

>The word sounds redundant
Probably because it isn't a word.

>> No.17421953

it's (light water) color, not light (water color)

>> No.17421954 [DELETED] 

>pol brackets

>> No.17421955 [DELETED] 

there need to be three for it to be antisemitic anon

>> No.17421957

Is there a specific rule to how to interpret 自分, especially when there are two topics (persons)? Is it the most recent that is brought up in that case?

>> No.17421960

It prefers the topic and it prefers whatever is most logically sensible and relevant.

>> No.17421961 [DELETED] 

I don't browse the /int/ thread since its full of koreans, what's their consensus on Sakubi?

>> No.17421967

Well, it just threw me off how it was used in my readings. For example in one sentence the speaker said 「私は。。。」「あの女は自分が。。。自分で」. So I assume 自分 is talking about the speaker here, just wanted to make sure if it followed some rule.

>> No.17421974

wow dude how about you cut out some more words and sentences from the context, just leave the 。。。 there next time

>> No.17421975 [DELETED] 

>Weird how there a lot of people giving opinions about this shitty guide lately, huh? It's almost as if their objective was to pretend to dislike/have no interest in a product just in order to justify namedropping and ongoing discussion!
>"Second" or "third" anon to say that "at least it's CC0!", REALLY makes me think...

>> No.17421978

Here's some more context:

>> No.17421982 [DELETED] 

I learned a lot from those two you-tube videos posted there
especially that lecture in the second video, though that stuff may already be known to you if you're into linguistics or some shit
but for a pleb like me it was a paradigm shift

>> No.17421985

I just wanted to clarify by showing what 自分 indicates with the current topic, but I guess it was more confusing than helpful. Sorry!!

>> No.17421987

The は particle stores things in the topic, but it's not the only way to control the topic in Japanese. You need full context, not just linguistic but also situational, in order to understand what is the true topic of a statement that does not mark its own topic with は.

>> No.17421994





>> No.17422009

Okay fine, I will be more precise. How is the adjective 淡い modifying the adjectival noun 水色 not redundant? It sounds like "very unique" to me. That is, 水色 already looks like a 薄い色 to me, so why can we say 淡い水色?

>> No.17422023

It's a dark charcoal color.
It's a light pink color.

It's not redundant, it makes the lightness more extreme.

>> No.17422025

Same reason you can say it in English and every other language. Do you think it's weird when someone says "hot flames" or "cold ice" too?

>> No.17422038

Is 貴方は貴方で simply for emphasis? The English equivalent of "You and only you"?

>> No.17422041


>> No.17422043


>> No.17422044

Woah, dude! Thanks for the tip! It does seem like it's the same as the one Rikai uses.
Now I'll just have to figure out how to use it without having to copy the whole thing into my media folder. Do you have any tips on that?
My first ideas are either redirecting whatever rikai queries to my local files somehow, or rewriting rikai altogether, though I'm not sure how I would go about doing either, but both seem feasible to me.

>> No.17422047
File: 539 KB, 1271x882, 水色.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I don't see the problem with specifying a lighter variant of a light color. So long as it's not pure white, you could always have it lighter.

>> No.17422048

It's not specifying a lighter variant of it.

>> No.17422052

You can go lighter than "pure white" too, all the way until the optic nerves are overloaded.

It's nearly impossible to have something really truly honestly legitimately "white". In terms of physical perception, the best you can get without damaging something is a very bright gray.

The other way of looking at it is, it's restricting 水色, which contains both なんか薄い色 and たしかに薄い色, to be just the たしかに薄い色.

>> No.17422055

I guess >>17422023 is correct then.

Both sound weird to me, unless used figuratively, or you are saying, for instance, the flames of an oxyacetylene torch are "hot flames" relative to the temperatures of the flames from other torches.

>> No.17422063

Give GA-芸術科アートデザインクラス- a read. It has hundreds of these sorts of references and enough physical context to start to see how these things are used in the world of arts and crafts.

>> No.17422081

Yea, it helped me turn my life around and be productive too. Everything is better since I started

>> No.17422141
File: 130 KB, 620x410, しお.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]





>> No.17422170


>> No.17422215

Any good resource\workbook to practice writing? I've been completely immersed into absorption of the medium and spoken skills are low as fuck.

>> No.17422224

Could you share this deck?

>> No.17422237

is textfugu any good? I remember people praising it in the past

>> No.17422266
File: 583 KB, 800x900, 1426966817071.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How many kanji should I learn before I could start learning 10 kanji/vocabularies per day through reading raw manga

>> No.17422270 [DELETED] 

The next post is going to be total nonsense

>> No.17422274

No, it's not even complete and an abandoned project.
Content wise it was decent I guess.

>> No.17422327

>How to get motivation to read things outside my comfort zone
Specifically these novels I have lying around

>> No.17422348

By wanting to read them really badly. If you don't already have the motivation you don't want to read them as much as you think you do, so look for other stuff that creates that feeling.

>> No.17422355

I want to read them but looking up words is really tedious and I always fall back to manga or LNs where I don't really have to look up much. Though I always get motivation in bursts and then massive downtime so eventually I'll probably grind through them

>> No.17422358

Read slightly erotic literature and the motivation will come, as will you.

>> No.17422365

Its gets a lot easier once you get past the first couple pages.

>> No.17422376

As a general rude, the more erotic the literature is, the worse the writing becomes.

>> No.17422384

>mfw I've read the first few pages multiple times

>> No.17422395

Very rude.

You can also give the chastity method a try.
Whenever you get horny read to distract yourself.

>> No.17422405

>Very rude.
Why is that rude? Erotic literature is trash, everyone knows this.

>> No.17422411

I was just mocking your typo.

>> No.17422415

Didn't even notice, my bad. Rude indeed.

>> No.17422418



>> No.17422480

Complete Core 20k then you will know all the words in the language and not have to look anything up.

>> No.17422483

You need to read *something*. I was just talking about VNs since they're a convenient metric.

If you know a VN takes you, say, 1 month to finish, then if someone says you need to read 30 VNs to achieve a certain level you can convert that in your head to "30 months of reading [anything]".

>> No.17422490


>> No.17422496

The person who wrote it doesn't even know Japanese. Don't fall for the meme.

>> No.17422555


>> No.17422570

If you can't pass N1 after 8 months it is time to give up.

>> No.17422594

>giving up

>> No.17422602

How can one kanji have so many readings? べつ、われ、どき、しょう, etc.

>> No.17422605



>> No.17422615


>> No.17422629

>since they're a convenient metric

>> No.17422630


>> No.17422669
File: 1.21 MB, 480x360, 1386996005859.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17422673

In the way I explained.

Manga vary too much in length and are too short to be a useful measure of reading time anyway.

>> No.17422691



>> No.17422692
File: 52 KB, 200x200, 1223030_1369642613988.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If you can't pass N5 after three years it's time keep going

>> No.17422708

>Manga vary too much in length and are too short to be a useful measure of reading time anyway.
The exact same can be said about visual novels.

>> No.17422709

I'm pretty sure that definition is wrong. I just checked 広辞苑 and it also gives the ちんぽ explanation:

>> No.17422718


>> No.17422727


>> No.17422751

Right, just try comparing something like Fate/stay night with some generic 2h long nukige...

>> No.17422777

That undermines the premise of your argument and highlights that using a generic value such as 1 VN is entirely meaningless.
Manga publications are at least lot more consistent with page numbers and format: yonkoma volumes are pretty much going to be around 120 pages and roughly double the text density per page of non-yonkoma manga format volumes, which tend to be between 140~210 pages each, most falling around the ~170 page mark.

>> No.17422780

Yeah but manga isn't reading in the first place so that argument is irrelevant.

>> No.17422783

What is it them listening?

>> No.17422789

I'm not the poster of >>17422708 and was in fact supporting your arguments. I also agree that manga can be somewhat more consistent in it's length.

>> No.17422796

It would appear that I took your comment entirely the wrong way, mistaking it for stereotypical /jp/ passive-aggression. Sorry about that, anon.

>> No.17422797

It's just looking

>> No.17422806

So if my prime goal is simply reading manga, after tae kim should I just start reading them? How long would it take to get comfortable?

>> No.17422812

Yeah. Depends on you.

>> No.17422815

It IS reading but the low text density doesn't make learning very effective. And arguably, VNs are less effective for learning than actual books.

>> No.17422816

>manga isn't reading
Depends on the genre, target group and how you approach manga.
I spend almost no time looking at the drawings and focus on progressing the story instead. That's why I hate battle scenes in manga.

>> No.17422825

That's great because VNs seem like they will get boring quickly. Real books seem much better to me than works of this gimmicky hybrid genre.

>> No.17422827

That's quite an insistence.

>but the low text density doesn't make learning very effective
That's complete bullshit.

>> No.17422830

Let's all rememeber that the most important thing is having fun with whatever you're reading.

>> No.17422838
File: 71 KB, 1000x900, 1_000000007340.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17422840

It's not reading because of how the text in it is written and structured, not the pictures. If you aren't making use of the sole selling point of the medium, the art, it's pretty dumb of you to continue reading them.

>> No.17422846

>It's not reading because of how the text in it is written and structured
So reading a screenplay is not really reading in your opinion as well, or what do you mean by this?

>> No.17422852

They're all different kinds of reading, some more effective at condoning reading large amounts of text

>> No.17422885
File: 1.67 MB, 1668x2048, reminder.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

When should you use 描く「えがく」 and 描く「かく」?

>> No.17422890

this sounds like a nice question for google good luck

>> No.17422891

>That's complete bullshit.
How so?

>> No.17422894

What's that at the bottom?

>> No.17422936 [DELETED] 

ive been away for a long time, didnt these threads used to be on /a/? what happened?

>> No.17422942

No they have always been here. Your memory must be bad.

>> No.17422958

Not him, but as someone who reads both novels and manga regularly, I can say they are about equally demanding for me and looking through my mining deck it's also pretty balanced.

As long as you read outside of your comfort zone anything is fine.

The "low text density" just means you finish a volume in less time than it takes you to finish a book, but you are still limited by your overall reading speed so it doesn't make a difference in terms of how much you learn.

>> No.17422960
File: 3 KB, 26x111, firefox.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What kanji is this at the start, I can't read the handwriting, it's too small.

>> No.17422963

Why do you tell lies on the internet?

>> No.17422976


>> No.17422982

Thank you, I really couldn't tell.

>> No.17423032

Yeah, when I started I believed that manga would be easier because the sentences are shorter and there's generally less text, but actually it's the opposite. Manga gives you a bit of contextual information "for free" in the form of pictures, but the contextual information in a book, notwithstanding the fact you have to read it all, is actually a lot more helpful, and each bit you get helps you to understand several others so you end up with a much better picture of what's going on.

>> No.17423101

>the manga wont teach you japanese psyop

how droll

>> No.17423173

To me it looks like 変. But maybe need context to confirm.

>> No.17423234

Can anyone here provide me with information about the background of the ps3 Tales of Vesperia fan translation? I want to use the online version, the one from hyouta dot com, as a source for Anki, grammar analyzing... Just as a reference tool mainly.

I got kind of worried/curious when I checked how they seem to have used the official xbox 360 translation verbatim. As a result, when reviewing the raw text and the "fan" translated text side to side in the online version, the "localization" decisions stand out a lot.

I would like to hear opinions/criticisms about this translation.

>> No.17423236

What you are currently thinking of doing is extremely retarded and you should refrain from it.

>> No.17423260

I imported the PS3 version a while back and played it. You don't need a translation it's fairly easy.

>> No.17423304
File: 258 KB, 788x2048, DGUYX-AUAAADpLT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Educational Comics

>> No.17423306

If I say please, would you elaborate?

Maybe I should clarify that it is not going to be my main learning resource or anything. I know where to look if I want grammar explanations and I have plenty of custom decks from past experience with games.


Me too, but I'm not the type that 100%'s games nor talks with every npc...

I just like how the online version let's me check everything with ease. And I thought it would make a nice learning resource on the side. Like, getting some perspective from the way other people have worked translating japanese before.

>> No.17423310

Meant to quote you.

>> No.17423315

>If you know a VN takes you, say, 1 month to finish

Is that even possible? Flyable Heart took me 11 months.

>> No.17423355

That's because you're bad at Japanese and invested in less than an hour a day reading.

>> No.17423412

I should still figure out a way to make it work offline since who knows when it might die again

>> No.17423427
File: 65 KB, 600x600, .jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No it's not.

>> No.17423458
File: 28 KB, 450x455, front.jpeg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It works for me at least.

>> No.17423464

That's pretty strange considering the servers the audio is fetched from are still down.

>> No.17423484

About how hard is it to get onto the Japanese server for black desert if you're not in Japan? How serious are they about keeping people in their respective regions?

>> No.17423485

Alright it just came back for me too. Thank fucking god.

>> No.17423504

eat shit gayjin

>> No.17423583

can someone explain to me the concept of 友達募集?

>> No.17423597

>tfw to intelligent to learn anything other than Aomori-ben

>> No.17423606


>> No.17423618

well yeah ok
but like how does the culture around it work? it seems like a pretty big thing

>> No.17423629

intelligent? you realize those are japanese hillbillies

>> No.17423644
File: 584 KB, 800x600, whatdidhemeanbythis.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why did this bloke add these meaningless white narration lines?

>> No.17423658

is there an LN that both not hot garbage but also not hard as steel?

>> No.17423663

>is there an LN that not hot garbage


>> No.17423669


>> No.17423676

is there a manga that both not hot garbage but also not easy as pudding?

>> No.17423684


>> No.17423758


>> No.17423768

>Unlike English style of writing which discourages the use of the passive form, passive verbs in Japanese are often used in essays and articles.
Wow. Is he talking about Korean English or what?

>> No.17423778

>uses a passive structure in a sentence right after saying that the "English style of writing" doesn't encourage that

>> No.17423782

No, real English. Teachers hate passive voice and never want you to use it. I never understood it.

>> No.17423798

It's quite common in Academic English (although some style guides disparage it).

>> No.17423800

All my English professors told me not to use passive voice, and even newer Word versions underline overly passive sentences.
The whole point is that direct actions sound better than indirect ones.

>> No.17423825

Steven Pinker brings up the passive voice, among other things related to suggested style. It's pretty entertaining to listen to.

>> No.17423978

Yes, check out 小学館ジュニア文庫

I like to read the detective conan light novels.


>> No.17424073
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>> No.17424078
File: 14 KB, 166x166, 1471923007351.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Audios work again. We're gonna make it, bros.

>> No.17424083

Same, but then in university the professors told us to avoid "I", "We" etc. and use passive instead when writing scientific papers.

>> No.17424133

Your entire existence is a shitty meme.

>> No.17424241

I've been having a lot of trouble with the cards Anki has been giving me recently.

>> No.17424264

The solution is simple, just overcome the troubles.

>> No.17424269


>> No.17424281

You should spending time with them outside of Anki, too.

>> No.17424309


Yeah, I'm doubling down on grammar lately, and once I'm done with my current material I'm gonna download an easy VN and dive in.

>> No.17424312


>> No.17424341

Thinking of it, would it be okay to do all of my reviews without new cards, and then when that's done do new cards as a separate batch? Or would that just mess with my learning?

>> No.17424342

There's an option that does this already.

>> No.17424529
File: 534 KB, 800x600, dialog.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm a bit confused by a line in Flyable Heart:
(MC's internal monologue)

Then, after the MC says to himself 「なんで・・・・・・なんだろう。」, you get the choice of which girl's direction to look in.

About the best I can do is:
That this sort of face will be made, I wasn't thinking about it...
Why... why, I wonder.

But that hardly makes any sense. Based on the choice which follows after he says these lines, it seems as if he's asking himself which girl he should look at, but I can't figure out how the lines produce that meaning.

>> No.17424563

My best guess is "Just what {is she/are they} thinking, making such {a face/faces}?"
But I'm a real noob, so I hope someone will correct this too.

>> No.17424577

They're making a reaction in response to something MC did. MC did not expect his behavior to incite this reaction. Other than that you have provided zero actual context about the scene which you should probably fix for future questions you ask.

>> No.17424616

I would guess that 顔する would be to "make a face", so this means they are making faces at him.

>Other than that you have provided zero actual context about the scene which you should probably fix for future questions you ask.

>> No.17424648

Ah, sorry about that.

The context is that he just brought some (not great looking) food out to them.

I think I get it now. "I wasn't thinking that they'd be making these sorts of faces. Why (are they looking like that)?".

After I selected one of the choices, that helped clear things up quite a bit. It seems like he was deciding to look in a girl's direction to seek her approval of the food/get her to try eating it.

I think the reason that I got so confused is that one girl was smiling and another wasn't looking particularly upset or anything, so I thought the MC must be talking about his own face.

>> No.17424657

>so I thought the MC must be talking about his own face
(that he used こんな instead of そんな further reinforced this belief)

>> No.17424938

trying to read a light novel, but I can't get it in any form where I can use yomichan on it to check/add to anki any kanji I'm not familiar with.
is there a good format I should use to view it in my browser? epub is being a shit.

>> No.17425021


>> No.17425027

well...fuck. thanks anon.

>> No.17425035

The up-to-date version is at http://djt.netlify.com/

>> No.17425083

how fast can a non-nip dweller reach N2 level or so? I'm starting my freshman year of college and looking to get as gud as possible for higher chances of an exchange year to 日本 and better quality of life there

i've added some 140 words+radicals of core2k in some 4 days but i have to slowed to 15 words/kangxi per day and am struggling to keep up with remembering some of the old ones and having new ones added on the pile every day what's the troubleshooting, do i just try to memorize harder or stop taking new ones until i can remember the first 100 words? i took too many the first two days

>> No.17425100

Took me two and a half years but the autists around here tend to be faster.

>> No.17425125
File: 24 KB, 953x324, .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I have no idea how advanced JLPT levels really are and personally not really interested in taking them but from the information google gives me it seems like there is no way N2 should even take two years. For a year you'd be looking at just below 20 words a day if this information is accurate.

>> No.17425151

>For a year you'd be looking at just below 20 words a day if this information is accurate.
Yup that sounds about right. I fucked up and did only Kanji study for awhile and dropped my new cards down to 15 for a summer so that's why it took me two and half years.
Most of your learning comes from reading though, and if you read more than I did (which to be honest I don't read enough so it should be easy) you could easily make it to N2 in under two years if your diligent.

>> No.17425167
File: 131 KB, 750x1334, IMG_2602.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i looked around and wikipedia has these numbers, i think this sounds more realistic.

2k kanji and 10 000 words in 900 hours is not possible unless you're some savant and even if you do reach n2 in a year like someone here who studies 8 hours a day might possibly, idk how common that is but regardless it takes more than 600 hours

>> No.17425184

So Kanji knowledge shaves 400 hours at worst and 3100 hours at best of study from relative proficiency? Why exactly am I not supposed to learn Kanji again?

>> No.17425187

Doing RTK =/= ``knowing kanji''

>> No.17425196

But Chinese can't read japanese Kanji either. Just like someone who has completely a Kanji course they have the shape and the ability to write Kanji but have to more or less completely relearn reading them.

>> No.17425198

You are not going to reach 6k mature cards in a year. You will see 6k, yes, but not know 6k words.
Most people don't jump into reading straight away either, and people often neglect listening. Unless you are some hardcore 勉強 master, I doubt you can be able to pass N2 within a year.

>> No.17425201

dummy, that means for people who already use kanji BEFORE they start learning e.g chinks learning japanese takes 400-3100 hours less because they can already recognize and write every/most kanji and they just have to remember the japanese readings

>> No.17425264

what's some good listening to practice with? how deep should your vocabulary be before it even makes any sense/you understand jack shit if you were listening to a radio talk show or something?

>> No.17425320


>> No.17425408

Is AJATT legit?
Do any of you do it?

>> No.17425432

AJATT is blog that collects well-known information about language learning so as to function as an advertisement for a scam. http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/katyana-rogo-manduli/internet/all-japanese-all-the-time-ajatt-ajatt-silverspoonneutrino-refused-to-honour-refund-int-1116749

>> No.17425441

You have to pay for AJATT? I thought it's just about consuming as much Japanese material as possible. What are they even offering for that amount of money?

>> No.17425466

You don't have to pay for it. AJATT is just the name of the blog. The blog is free to access. It's his scam "services" that you had to pay for.

>> No.17425504

From the videos i've seen about it, they watch a lot of raw anime. Should I be watching it with japanese subtitles or raw first?

>> No.17425507

it doesnt matter if youre using your brain the entire time

>> No.17425508

Until you can understand it relatively easily, anime is only particularly good for phonemic awareness. It is valid input but things like visual novels and manga are better because you're developing literacy at the same time.

>> No.17425521

Scrub manga and yes.

>> No.17425524

Manga without furigana is effectively equivalent to normal literature with excessive illustrations.

>> No.17425739

I'm finally breaking the wall.

>> No.17425746


>> No.17425755

>want to understand what some songs mean on the fly

I can't even do that in English. Song lyrics are usually so abstract they're just syllables to my brain. At least Asians are usually kind enough to put lyrics up most of the time.

>> No.17425771

All jap lit has furigana doe

>> No.17425778 [DELETED] 

>It is valid input but things like visual novels and manga are better because you're developing literacy at the same time.
No, you should have a balance of both. You're not truly training a native ear if you're not doing listen on its own without any read (you can't actually effectively focus on both reading and listening at the same time either). Listening a ton is really the only way ever sound close to how a native sounds.

>> No.17425944

what about big action text on those crazy variety shows dont you think that would help a gaijin understand normal (tv) people talk as opposed to fully missing it because they arent used to the sounds

>> No.17425984

Any of you fags use Wanikani for learning radicals? It looks like it's giving me wrong "definitions" of them. It says ⼘ is "toe" instead of the Anki/Wikipedia definiton of "Divination". And no it's not telling me how to pronounce the katakana ト , it says it means the body part toe

>> No.17426009

Not only are you using Wanikani but you also called me a fag. Fuck you.

>> No.17426017

Hey hey hey! Settle down mister we're all friends here

>> No.17426114
File: 34 KB, 157x244, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What do the last line's kanjis here say?
I can't read the kanji it's too messy.

>> No.17426140

just kidding. i have no idea. sorry. :)

>> No.17426154

Yeah I think you might be right.

>> No.17426169

I still think the kanji after 大 might be something else though like 底 or something

>> No.17426219

I was serious about not being sure though; I'm just an anki drone and I'm struggling with the whole thing.
So I found this:
Does it mean something along the lines of "something one can't say/something unbelievable"?
Putting it all together:
>If something unbelievable/(something that shouldn't be said) is spoken, then it will cause a disruption [interrupt a meeting or something] (for around 3 seconds)
>(most things won't be affected/bothered)
Ugh. Such is life as an Anki drone. Do you have any more context?

>> No.17426232
File: 578 KB, 700x1344, 1501778746131.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I can read the whole thing. Just that one kanji, I can't get since the writing is messy.

>> No.17426249

I actually asked somebody japanesea and they said it's a mistake and it's meant to be 大抵 so yeah never mind

>> No.17426268

...so what does it mean? Was I close? ;_;

>> No.17426273

yeah you got it

>> No.17426288

I hate the feeling of kind of knowing individual words but not how they all fit together.

>> No.17426361
File: 94 KB, 548x752, card.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17426365

The artist kinda talks weird here, don't feel too bad.
Something that's not used to being said
being said
In english basically; He's in shock after being told something that he's not used to being told about himself.

It helps to read it backwards when translating to english.

>> No.17426379

>something that he's not used to
So it is based on 慣れる and not 成る -- that helps. Thank you.

>> No.17426390

I got 161/180 on my N2 after "studying" about 10 years.
"Studying" means like 9 years of anime and manga with non-serious grammar and kanji study and a year of serious grammar and kanji study. If you skip straight to the serious stuff it might take only 1-2 years.

>> No.17426751



>> No.17426817


What a cute mom.

>> No.17426841

When do I learn to discern good writing from bad writing in Japanese?

>> No.17426846

Native speaker level

>> No.17426913

You study works people consider good and compare it to that, or just reading it you kinda feel it.
It's not that hard for the later.
That said Scaji is shit ignore what other people tell you.

>> No.17426996

Did anyone here play Kanon by Key?

>> No.17427110




>> No.17427189


>> No.17427262

It's shit.

>> No.17427284

Why is 啄木鳥 read the way it is read?

>> No.17427293

About 1-3 years in. It doesn't take that much to recognize eloquence and elegance in language. You don't have to be fluent. And after all, "good" writing is mostly subjective.

>> No.17427314

For the same reason 五月雨 or 向日葵 are read the way they are.
It's kanji slapped onto a Japanese word disregarding all the chinese readings. In other words: Irregular.

>> No.17427317

it's ateji
those are not ateji, the kanji actually have something to do with the meaning of the japanese word

>> No.17427322

>those are not ateji, the kanji actually have something to do with the meaning of the japanese word

lol and 啄木鳥 doesn't?

>> No.17427329

>peck + tree + bird has NOTHING to do with the meaning "woodpecker"
I see.

>> No.17427332

did you think woodpeckers actually peck wood

>> No.17427337

playing the long game, i see

>> No.17427345







>> No.17427356

Is it that bad? I thought Key's games were pretty good...

>> No.17427361

A red haired girl like Kaori-chan appeared in my dream and said things like "大好き" while she hugged me. There were several sisters and I couldn't hide the fact that she was the one I liked the most. I barely even shook hands with the others, actually.

Does this mean I will learn Japanese?

>> No.17427365

Tulpas are a banned topic of discussion on /jp/, anon.

>> No.17427366

I haven't played Kanon but I find the quality varies a bit. Little busters is one of my favorite games, but the others I've tried were like 7-8/10 at most

>> No.17427367

Rewrite/Clannad are the only good ones. Little Busters is fine. Though all of these are extremely long and there are a lot of better games you could play.

>> No.17427368


>> No.17427375


>> No.17427388




>> No.17427652
File: 9 KB, 259x194, 1356497905524.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17427768

Are there html versions of the monogatari series? I didnt see it in the resources but I feel like it exists

>> No.17427772

... are you pretending to be retarded or do you not realize you can convert them yourself?

>> No.17427783

I don't think you looked very hard...

>> No.17427784

But how do I do that.
Spoon feed me

>> No.17427789

sure no problem, just follow the instructions on this super secret site:

>> No.17427799



>> No.17427818


>> No.17427833

where can i get japanese audio books? im looking for lord of the rings and the harry potter series specifically...

>> No.17427834


>> No.17427864


>the harry potter series specifically
The first and second books have an audio version in the CoR, in the Japanese !L-R link.

>> No.17427905

found them. thanks.

>> No.17427937

>誰もが転がる石なのに 皆が特別だと思うから
>選ばれなかった少年は ナイフを握り締めて立ってた
>匿名を決め込む駅前の 雑踏が真っ赤に染まったのは

What exactly does 選ばれなかった少年 mean here?
"The juvenile that couldn't make a choice" or "The juvenile that wasn't elected" doesn't make any sense to me here.

Maybe it's "The juvenile who ran out of choices to make" in a roundabout way?
I'm confused.

>> No.17427938
File: 835 KB, 992x1018, .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anyone have some fun Spotify playlists to play in the background? Preferably without Engrish songs.

>> No.17427963


>> No.17427969

>You have to pay for AJATT?
No, it's just that the author came up with a bunch of money-making gimmicks (and also scams, it seems) after the blog got popular.

The blog itself is still free. If you stick to the table of contents (link below), you'll find lots of useful information about language learning. Just be wary of reading anything else on the site as it might be tied into some money-making gimmick that he came up with somehow.


>> No.17427977

Not radio, but I listen to this album a lot lately:

Especially like 記号として and O&O

>> No.17427982

It's the passive.
Your tunnel visioning on EDICT J-E is pretty funny, using words like "juvenile" and "elected".

>> No.17427998

>Your tunnel visioning on EDICT J-E is pretty funny, using words like "juvenile" and "elected".
That's only because I'm ESL and usually don't translate to English.

So, is "The lad that ran out of options" an allright interpretation? I like that one the most.

>> No.17428000

Fuck off tryhard.

>> No.17428003

Guise, I've decided to start with hiragana first, is this a bad move?

>> No.17428008

hiragana are only used to describe the pronunciation of kanji, so you can skip them if you go straight to kanji. good luck anon!

>> No.17428029

The boy that wasn't chosen

>> No.17428061

There are other languages available if your English is shaky.

>> No.17428083

From now on I will ask all my questions directly in Japanese.

>> No.17428090

I only meant that there's other flavors of EDICT available, not just English. But you can do that, too.

>> No.17428112

なにかの かし みたい だから どうとでも かいしゃくできると おもうよ
こじんてきには "(神様に)選ばれなかった少年 = 何も才能が無かった少年" という いんしょうを うけたよ

>> No.17428116

Ignore this.

>> No.17428274


>> No.17428360

ひうか (ウ音便)

>> No.17428363 [SPOILER]  [DELETED] 
File: 130 KB, 806x599, 1501945188693.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Guess what came in the mail boys? Pretty excited right now. Wondering if I should open it. Too excited not to though.

>> No.17428392 [DELETED] 

Oh wrong thread.

>> No.17428398