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16903677 No.16903677 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

The spellcard rules are in place so that anyone can defeat the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, but what would happen to Gensokyo if someone did defeat her?

>> No.16903807
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16903807

Wrong, they are in place so the Hakurei Shrine Maiden won't kill everyone involved in an incident

>> No.16903823
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16903823

Literally nothing - she can rematch as many times as she likes(continues are canon, see article linked), and the Hakurei barrier has been maintained by "generations" of shrine maidens so there's a plan in place for when one dies, because at least one has before.

Educate yo self

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Basic_Knowledge_of_Fantastic_Words_2015

>> No.16903874

>>16903823
PMiSS says opponents are 'generally' encouraged to allow rematches but what if they say no?

>> No.16903906
File: 27 KB, 276x312, Reimu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16903906

>>16903874
>what if they say no?

>> No.16903948

>>16903874

PMiSS is written by Akyuu and edited by Yukari, SCoOW is written by ZUN from ZUN perspective.

>> No.16904015

>>16903906
that only works against youkai since that's what she's trained for. If lunarians or oni or something else attacked Reimu would have no way to beat them if they were stronger.
>inb4 lolk, suika, yuugi
if they disregarded spellcard rules to get what they wanted noone could do anything.

>> No.16904042

>>16904015

Yukari would wipe whoever breaks the rules from existence, she can affect anything with her boundaries and only fights within spellcard rules "for the purposes of the narrative".


https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Yukari_Yakumo,_Ran_Yakumo,_and_Chen

Under "Boundary Manipulation"

Educate yo self further

>> No.16904090

Imagine if Remilia were to let Flandre out of the SDM. With no spellcard rules in place, it would be all over for literally everyone else.

Maybe except the other SDM residents and a few others probably.

>> No.16904103

>>16904090
as >>16904042 said yukari would rek her

>> No.16904116

>>16904103
Flandre can destroy absolutely anything, though. Also, this is in a scenario where there are no spellcard rules.

>> No.16904118

>>16904042
but lunarians > yukari as seen in SSiB

>> No.16904123

Facts for grimdark kiddies:

*Barrier doesn't die if Reimu dies, it's been around for generations of maidens
*Youkai can survive in the outside world, at least for a while, or indefinitely if it's a strong youkai like Mamizou
*Barrier is fine for at least a month with Reimu not tending to the shrine, Kasen was there instead
*The Hakurei Barrier and the Fantasy-Reality barrier that keeps youkai safe are separate and the Hakurei barrier is just the physical space barrier.
*Reimu could fight by staying outside of reality an not being targetable while summoning an endless wave of gods if we're talking fights without spellcard rules

>> No.16904129

>>16904042
Yorihime and Toyohime can't be touched by anyone in Gensokyo.

She's also one of the only characters to defeat Reimu so badly.

>> No.16904132

>>16904123
>Reimu could fight by staying outside of reality an not being targetable while summoning an endless wave of gods if we're talking fights without spellcard rules
source?

>> No.16904137

>>16904132
>What is fantasy heaven

>> No.16904141

>>16904116
yukari can destroy anything at anytime in anyplace using gaps. The second Flandre does anything she's fucking mince

>> No.16904148

>>16904141
>the second flandre does anything
Which would be destroying yukari.

With help from Remilia, of course

>> No.16904150

>>16904118

But Yukari won in SSiB, she got to scout Lunaria and make them double down on the security obsession at zero cost to herself after escaping moments later completely unharmed.

>> No.16904163

>>16904148
Can't destroy something you don't know about. Even with a description she wouldn't be able to. And Yukari would know since she knows about everything inside the barrier and would fkn rek her.

>> No.16904178

>>16904148

Even if that could happen, it can't, Yukari's shikigami (she has thousands or millions) increase in power when doing her bidding, up to and including being as powerful as her, and would just un-destroy her or completely destroy the universe and just re-create it without the offending parties, as is stated to be possible directly in PMiSS and less directly in SCoOW

>> No.16904187

>>16904163
>Can't destroy something you don't know about. Even with a description she wouldn't be able to.
With help from Remilia, as stated in my last post. She can manipulate anyone's fate.

>And Yukari would know since she knows about everything inside the barrier and would fkn rek her
Source.

>> No.16904198
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16904198

>>16904187

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Basic_Knowledge_of_Fantastic_Words_2015

Based on the most recent word of canon from ZUN here, Yukari created and controls the entire fantasy-reality boundary over Gensokyo by herself, no dragon gods involved.

Entering Gensokyo means existing within the context of Yukari's will.

>> No.16904210

>>16904198
Why is it called the Hakurei Boarder then? ZUN!

>> No.16904221

>>16904210

There's a section in there on this.

Hakurei Barrier is the physical "You can't walk in, trying to walk out is like video game invisible walls" thing.

Fantasy and Reality barrier is the one that makes Gensokyo an especially magical place (In 2hu, outside world has magic as well, just not as much)

>> No.16904224
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16904224

>> No.16904228

>>16904221
>*Barrier doesn't die if Reimu dies, it's been around for generations of maidens
The Hakurei Barrier isn't an actual physical thing though, it's more of an incantation that stops people from entering or leaving than an actual barrier.

>> No.16904237

>>16904228

It's explicitly stated to work like video game invisible walls where you'll just keep walking but the scenery won't change and you'll turn around have have gone no distance

>> No.16904245
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16904245

>>16904224
Get off the internet Lunarian, ZUN is a Yukari powerlevel shitposter

>> No.16904250

>>16904237
Then ZUN doesn't know what the term "Invisible walls" actually implies.

>> No.16904259

>>16904250

Doesn't use the words invisible walls, but the fact you can't move further at a certain point is true

>> No.16904266

>>16903807
It's not like not having spellcard rules would disadvantage Reimu anyway it's Marisa who benefits from it more. It's been mentioned what her actual ability is before and it's absurd.

Reimu's has the ability to 'float away', it sounds like it just means her ability to fly in general. But it actually means Reimu has the ability to become intangible, literal god mode since she just leaves the current plain and becomes invincible. If anything spellcard rules are a handicap for Reimu.

>> No.16904270

Mokou, Kaguya, and Eirin are truly immortal and cannot be destroyed. They would have the best chance of defeating anyone in Gensokyo, even Yukari.

>> No.16904272

>>16904266
She can also summon gods.

This triggers the entire religious extremist Lunarian race.

>> No.16904289
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16904289

>it's a 2hu powerlevel debate thread

>> No.16904321

Why don't they just shoot Reimu?

>> No.16904326

>>16904321

Sumireko literally does in 14.5 she has a 3D-printed gun

>> No.16904352

>>16904272
Comes with the territory of being a Shrine Maiden, even Sanae can summon gods too and she isn't a Shrine Maiden but a Wind Priestess.

If anything it's canon Reimu is actually kinda shitty at summoning and regularly forgets how to do it.

>> No.16904358

>>16904272
Can Reimu summon Sanae?

>>16904321
Reimu killed at least 3 tanks before.

>> No.16904431

>>16904270
They could be tortured into submission? If they just kept coming back instantly.

Also there are touhous who don't have to attack you physically to kill you so Reimu's intangibility isn't that great, also asuming she cannot hold that form and stay "invincible" for extended periods of time.

Yuuka, yukari, koishi could kill reimu

>> No.16904446
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16904446

>power level thread
Might as well make it something more interesting.
What if there was a human that could give more belief then a million humans consciously? Like manipulating the thing that allows humans to believe in things.
Such a character could turn themselves into a divine spirit with their own will or create a species of youkai at a whim, or make youkai already existing self sufficient from other humans.

>> No.16904482

>>16904431
Reimu can hold the invincible form forever if she has to. Yuuka only has sheer strength so Reimu can still get her with Fantasy Heaven. Yukari won't kill Reimu since she protects the barrier. Koishi doesn't have the capability to consciously kill Reimu even so there's no subconscious reason why she would.

>> No.16904506

>Conveniently forgetting that Shikieiki is above EVERYONE in Gensokyo.

>> No.16904542

This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

>> No.16904627

>>16904482

> Yuuka only has sheer strength so Reimu can still get her with Fantasy Heaven.

Same source that Zun was shitposting about Yukari's power level, Zun was shitposting that Yuuka was the strongest/most powerful being inside Gensokyo - which includes Yukari, and he left it questionable about Shiki Eiki in classical Zun style.
In his E-Mails, he also stated that Yuuka's lifeforce is directly connected to that of nature itself, including all living things, essentially making her immortal until the end of the universe. In this scenario, it's an endless battle because neither of them has a stamina limit unless Reimu drops Fantasy Heaven when she falls asleep.

>> No.16904639

>>16904506
But Hecatia is above her.

Powerlevel debates are retarded.

>> No.16904652
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16904652

Stop to make this thread a power level 2hus thread, by the way, all people know that Cirno destoy Yukari, Reimu, Yuuka, Watatsukis, Shikieki, Shinki and Hecatia and it's an insult not mencionate the strongest fairy of Gensokyo.

>> No.16904658
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16904658

>>16904639
Hecatia is not from Gensokyo tho
On another note, is Junko as powerful as Hecatia? There seemed to be a relationship based on respect on their dialogues.

>> No.16904659

>>16904639
Hecatia isn't in Gensokyo though.

>>16904506
Fuck off you powerleveling faggot

>>16904627
>Zun was shitposting that Yuuka was the strongest/most powerful being inside Gensokyo - which includes Yukari

Ah yes, the famous, ever elusive "ZUN said/shitposted/joked/mentioned" with no source whatsoever. Where word spreads from thread to thread, from person to person, and "Yuuka could probably hold out a while against Yukari" turns into "Yuuka can, should, must and will kill Yukari by simply looking at her in a mean way"

>> No.16904664

>>16904658
Hecatia was said to be incredibly above all beings presented in Touhou yet, and that probably includes Junko.

>> No.16904689

>>16904659
>with no source whatsoever

How did you manage to miss:
> Same source that Zun was shitposting about Yukari's power level,
She has an article in SCoOW.

I assume you are the famous blind anon who cannot into reading?

>> No.16904697

When Mima was apparently lying to Shinki about being the god of the human world she was actually lying to the audience. Therefore, Mima is God and as such is omnipotent.

>> No.16904704

>>16904689
I'm legally blind, THWiki is hard as fuck to read, don't blame me

>> No.16904707

>>16904664
She was stated to be past the power on anyone of Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital. Junko belong to neither of those.
I remeber ZUN said something about Junko being a contrast to Hecatia in a simple way being as powerful as she is.
Also, Junko is a pretty serious character, she doesn't even get a "defeated portrait" in the extra battle after participating in it

>> No.16904728

>>16904132
SSiB.

>> No.16904729
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16904729

>>16903874

They get to see Reimu's mean side.

>> No.16904745

>>16904707

>Stronger than characters stated to be completely limitless but toned down in writing so the game can have conflicts

Why couldn't Hecatia just instakill Chang'e and/or the Lunarian race?

>> No.16904751

>>16904745
>Chang'e
Hourai.
>Lunarian race
She possibly could, but maybe she just doesn't want to. Conflict against the Lunarians can also cause massive collateral damage, and they might even try to terraform Gensokyo or some other place on Earth to flee there.

>> No.16904763

>>16904745
Who are you quoting?

>Why couldn't Hecatia just instakill Chang'e and/or the Lunarian race?

a) Hell politics
b) She actually has nothing against/didn't want to destroy the Lunarians, just wanted to keep an eye on Junko
c) 4D Chess
d) There's a higher being that keeps her in check (unlikely)

>> No.16904769

>>16904270
Yukari would just manipulate the border between mortality and immortality and make them mortal again.

>> No.16904770

>>16904659
>Fuck off you powerleveling faggot
I'm talking authoritity wise, dipshit.

>> No.16904786

>>16904770
Still powerleveling you stupid faggot

>> No.16904790

>>16904769
That's not possible. You become unable to die indefinitely if you consume the hourai elixir. There are no exceptions.

>> No.16904791

>>16904745
Chang'e is a Hourai immortal like Kaguya, Mokou, and Eirin.

>> No.16904798

>>16904790
that's where you're wrong kiddo

>> No.16904800

>>16904786
No it isn't. Shut the fuck up already you autistic cuntsack.

>> No.16904809

>>16904798
Show me where I'm wrong instead of making half assed remarks. You can't.
Fucking idiot.

>> No.16904814

can't yukari just kill kaguya by restoring her boundary of life and death?

>> No.16904815

>>16904704
For anyone interested, the relevant part is:

> 「花映塚」でラスボスの四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥと対峙したとき、 幻想郷で誰が強いかはっきりさせてやると喧嘩を売っている(映姫は幻想郷の住人ではないが)ことから、 彼女自身も強さには自信があるのだろう。 霊夢は過去に幽香を退治したことがあるらしいが、 本当なのか今ひとつ定かではない。

Which translates into:
> When (she was) confronting Yamaxanadu Shiki Eiki in Phantasmagoria of Flower View, I decided to pose a conflict to clarify who is strongest in Gensokyo (Shiki Eiki is not from Gensokyo), Yuuka is very confident in her strength. Reimu is said to have defeated Yuuka before, but whether that is true or not is uncertain.

the
> I decided to pose a conflict to clarify who is strongest in Gensokyo
is the important part and, by Japanese context,
> (Shiki Eiki is not from Gensokyo)
is an ambiguous statement here.

>>16904707

> She was stated to be past the power on anyone of Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital.

That is actually a mistranslated passage.
What Zun actually said was the FIGHTS were the hardest that the players have ever seen. Basically, he intended the bosses to be really hard, keeping with the theme of LoLK upping the difficulty after the 'ease' of the last couple of games. He was ambiguous about the power levels of the characters themselves beyond (in character) calling them something else.

>>16904745

The Ultimate Spear (in one person) fights the Ultimate Spear (split over an entire unified society), what happens?
Mutually Assured Destruction.

>> No.16904816
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16904816

>>16904786
>>16904800
>>16904809

people are fucking angry in this thread

>> No.16904823

>>16904809
hourai elixir controls your mortality and gets rid of it nothing more. Yukari controls the very existence of Gensokyo and everything in it and can change borders for everything.

"Yukari's ability is the "manipulation of boundaries". It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything."

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Yukari_Yakumo,_Ran_Yakumo,_and_Chen

>> No.16904826
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16904826

I'm not relevant to this discussion

>> No.16904837

>>16904826
doesn't want to destroy Gensokyo so she's cool

>> No.16904838

>>16904823
Straight from the wiki:

>The Hourai Elixir was created by Eirin Yagokoro using Kaguya Houraisan's power over eternity. Anyone who drinks this forbidden elixir will cease to age, never become ill, and will never be able to die. Every injury shall cease; critical injuries will be healed in a matter of days. Complete destruction results in complete restoration.

Drinkers gain the inability to die, allowing their bodies to receive an indefinite amount of punishment. No matter whether they are beheaded, incinerated or has taken any other form of damage, they will always revive without exception.

They are truly invincible. Yukari can't do shit.

>> No.16904839

>>16904816

Welcome to the Twilight Bar Room, drink and be merry while the pub crawlers bicker over pirates and ninjas.

>> No.16904844

>>16904837
That's until she decides to impale your waifu and summon a fucking meteor from space.

>> No.16904851

>>16904838
are you blind or just retarded? Considering you cited the wiki I think you're both.

Yukari can control the boundary set by the elixir in the first place. She can change the boundary between life and death, mortality and immortality if she wants to. This overrides the elixir.

>> No.16904864

>>16904791
>Chang'e
She's called Jouga now
>>16904763
>keeping an eye on Junko
Wasn't Junko the one that was commanding her as a dog?
Hell, Hecatia even had to ask Junko if she could do something
That obviously puts Junko on the same hierarchic level as Hecatia, after all Hecatia is a God and Junko is a Divine Spirit, which in Touhou is a God.

>> No.16904880

>>16904851
When you drink the hourai elixir, you are neither living nor dying. You become ageless. Therefore, there is no boundary of life and death. As i said before, Yukari can't do shit to the hourai immortals. Learn the fucking definition of the elixir before you make an ass of yourself again. Any form of strike results in complete restoration.

Fuck off.

>> No.16904883

>>16904790
Then Yukari will just manipulate the border between reality and nonreality and make it so they never existed.

>> No.16904884

>>16904838

Except gap them into space with relative velocity zero, millions of miles from anything

>> No.16904889

>>16904838
>Yukari can't do shit

I engaged in an autistic pursuit of an image that would've told you into the next week, but I can't find it. It's Marisa doing the "that's where you're wrong kiddo" pose. Imagine that and consider your bullshit checked.

>>16904864
Not really, it's like when you're with THAT kid and you have to ask him if he wants to do something, so he doesn't have an autistic outburst or a fit.

"Hey Junko, wanna maybe go outside?"

>> No.16904901

>>16904880
you've got to stop thinking of the boundaries as physical attacks because they arn't. When I said boundary between immortality and mortality you have to think of it as an abstract concept; the boundary between mortality and immortality is removed as Yukari wishes and the people of hourai become mortal. I know it must seem like a very difficult thing to comprehend but try your best.

>> No.16904910

>>16904884
Except Yukari's maxiumum range is the moon.

>> No.16904911
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16904911

>>16904889
this one?

>> No.16904921

>>16904911
you're a fucking champ my man, thank you

>> No.16904926

>>16904883
That won't have any effect. Also, if yukari was really able to manipulate the boundaries between reality and non reality, she'd be able to touch Reimu when she uses fantasy heaven, and that's no possible.

>>16904884
Still won't kill them.

>>16904889
Not an argument

>>16904901
I never said they were physical, jackass.
Even Yukari can't remove the effects of the hourai elixir. That's the whole fucking point of it in the first place. ANY other forms of strike encompasses abstract and physical and anything in between.

Just stop. Give up already.

>> No.16904928

>>16904889
>that kid
She's the one that put the Lunarians between the sword and the wall you know? She handed over their asses on a plate.
The only way to defeat her was using a special medicine to see the future and cleanse away all impurities, and that plan has to be made by the God of wisdom and intelligence.
She's no mere being in the Touhou Project lore

>> No.16904931

>>16904910
And she can't even access the lunar capital, either!

>> No.16904933

>>16904926
>That won't have any effect.
>Even Yukari can't remove the effects of the hourai elixir.

Citation needed.
Not an argument.
Just stop. Give up already.

>> No.16904942
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16904942

>>16904921
also found this one if you're interested.

>>16904926
see image

>> No.16904950

>>16904928
She's definitely something, I'm not saying she's a jobbing weakling. I'm just countering the argument that Hecatia was sucking up to her because she's weaker.

Hecatia was also the one who handed the Lunarians their asses on plates, with a nice dressing, too. The fairies were her Lampads, it was a joint effort.

>> No.16904951

>>16904933
It's on the fucking wiki, you retard.

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Hourai_Elixir

Accept your defeat.

>> No.16904953

>>16904926
Why are you so angry that the most powerful person in the touhou universe is more powerful than your shitty waifu?

>> No.16904956

>>16904942
time to awaken my autistic gifmaking powers and create an obnoxious flashing gif using these two

don't come to /jp/ tomorrow, happening thread posted next morning

>> No.16904959
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16904959

>>16904951
>citing the wiki
you should try playing the games some time they're pretty fun.
The official printworks are fun to read too

>> No.16904960

>>16904951
That's not even the wiki that cool kids use.

>> No.16904961

>>16904951
Still quoting the wiki, are you, you waifufag?
Fuck off already with your lunarians, you silly tetriary.

>> No.16904963

>>16904953
If we're gonna get technical here, Reimu is the most powerful 2hu there is.

Also,
>Implying I need a waifu

>> No.16904967 [SPOILER] 
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16904967

>>16904956

>> No.16904968

Was this thread moved from /v/?

>> No.16904969

This autistic thread is almost as powerful as that Genso Wanderer one that's still up.

>>16904963
I have a hunch Yukari could pull her out of her god mode and slap her shit up for being a sassy brat, desu

>> No.16904971

>>16904959
Played every game up to ULiL.

Good non-argument you got there, too.

>> No.16904974

>>16904963
>Reimu floats out of reality
>Yukari manipulates the boundary of reality and brings her back in and hits her in her dumb face
gg ez

>> No.16904976

>>16904951

Yukari's boundaries could affect the fact that the hourai elixir ever existed though, that piece of history isn't protected.

>> No.16904981

>>16904971
LoLK too hard for you or something?

If you're going to cite sources then cite the actual sources and not the wiki. It may be hard to believe but the wiki is not a source.

>> No.16904983

ITT: Crossboarding quaternaries who don't know a fucking thing about 2hu.

Neck yourselves.

>> No.16904987

>>16904981
How is it not a source?

>> No.16904990
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16904990

>>16904987

>> No.16904993

>>16904974
Reimu is invincible while using fantasy heaven, dumbass.

>> No.16904994

>>16904993
>Yukari manipulates the border of invinciblity and uninvincibility
gg ez

>> No.16904997

>>16904981

The written works hosted on the wiki are a source, and are usually posted next to the original japanese and screenshots of the pages if you doubt the translation

>> No.16905001

>>16904990
Still no argument because you know you're fucking wrong.

and you call me the fucking retard?
Neck yourself, scum.

>>16904994
Nah.

>> No.16905005

>>16904997
>>16905001
it's not that I doubt the translation it's that I wasn't shown the translation just a summation and told that was a primary source.

>> No.16905008

>>16905001
>Yukari manipulates the border between Nah and Ya
gg ez
Seriously though, kill yourself. Who even uses wikia anymore?

>> No.16905026

>>16905005
What summation? the one on SCoOW?

>> No.16905027

>>16905026
the one on the wiki

>> No.16905048 [SPOILER] 
File: 292 KB, 575x385, 1492895248714.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16905048

>>16904967
Used only one, the other one's dimensions were dogshit.

enjoye

>> No.16905054

>>16905008
>Seriously though, kill yourself. Who even uses wikia anymore?

The admin of that wiki who banned everyone.

>> No.16905059

>>16904150
that was a strategical win (she proves a point) but in a frontal fight yukari will lose

>> No.16905063

>>16905048
beautiful

>> No.16905065

>>16905059
says who?

>> No.16905070

>>16905008
I suppose you can't reason with braindead retards like you.

What a shame. You're completely useless.

>> No.16905072

>>16904015
onis are youkais anon

>> No.16905073

>>16905070
>you will never be this dumb and full of yourself
Oh, the joys of being underaged.

>> No.16905076

>>16905072
no they arn't they are different like yama or celestials

>> No.16905101
File: 419 KB, 1115x1600, HakumenCT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16905101

If you want to defeat Yukari (or most touhou abilities) then just use this guy.

>> No.16905113

>>16905073
You don't have to be underaged to see that "Kill yourself, who even uses the wikia?" isn't an actual argument.

>> No.16905117

>>16905113
See, you just don't get it.
You'll understand when you're older.

>> No.16905122

>>16905113
>>16905117

I'm not autistic enough to get into this whole Yukari argument, but know that you both are acting like underage retards

take it easy

>> No.16905131 [DELETED] 

>>16905122
>reddit spacing
Go back.

>> No.16905136

>>16905117
Im not even the guy you were repplying to, im just saying, telling random people on the internet that they should kill themselves is not an argument.

>> No.16905140

>>16905131
the two lines of space are an aesthetic you silly fucking child.

good god do I want you to fucking go already, isn't it bedtime in whatever fuckhole you're in?

>> No.16905152

>>16905136

Pointing out they use a Wikia that is well known for deleting and editing any content that the Admin doesn't like or agree with is an argument, however.
Potentially years of archived information died with that purge and not that many brave anons care to dive the Nipnet for it all.

>> No.16905167 [DELETED] 

>>16905140
>lying like this to cover the fact that you're a filthy redditor
GO
BACK

>> No.16905181

>>16905152
Except that's not what >>16905008 did, he said "who even uses the wikia?" without even going into details, in any proper discussion you should never assume the people you're talking to have 100% of the same knowledge as you do, which is why the expression "going into detail" exists, don't just say "who uses the wikia?", explain why using the wikia is a bad argument.

>> No.16905184

>>16905059
How?

If "Boundary of existence and nonexistence" on the Lunar Capitol becomes necessary to the narrative she'll use it, ZUN says it can affect anything.

>> No.16905198

>>16905181
>argument
The argument ended when he started just saying "nuh uh, look at the wiki!" before saying less and less words until all he had left to say was "Nah."
It's not worth anyone's time to type out an argument to an autist since autistic people will never accept it, even if it's infallible in every way. Quit being so self important.

>> No.16905219

>>16905198
I think it's a far too cynical idea to think that there's no point in properly argumentating with people, even ones who act like idiots.

>> No.16905222
File: 148 KB, 850x850, 14913709405.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16905222

Reminder to yukarifags, absolutes doesn't have boundaries so yukari can´t manipulate them

>> No.16905232

>>16905222
>Yukari manipulates the border between absolute and not absolute
gg ez

>> No.16905241

>>16905232
>still seeing the world as 2 things
>false opossites

>> No.16905245

>>16905232

Hopefully Yukari manipulates the boundary between Lunarians posting "But contrived exception!" online and bending the knee like they're supposed to

>> No.16905253

>>16905184
>fake boundaries
define "noexistence" please

>> No.16905255

Aren't the four Oni said to be on Yukari's level?

>> No.16905265

>>16905232
Yukari fans are like that shit kid who would say "it was a hologram" while playing pretend.

>> No.16905273

>>16905265

Welcome to doujinshi powerlevel fights

Madoka and Homura annihilate and re-create the entire universe in minutes

>> No.16905314

>>16904763
>There's a higher being that keeps her in check (unlikely)
>(unlikely)
Is VERY likely that fuckers who want to see the universe burn are wondering in hell, see heca's part of AFiEU

>> No.16905373

Who cares when at the end of it they all answer to the Yama?

>> No.16905382

>>16905373

Answer how, most people in Gensokyo and other realms only respect authority within their own faction

>> No.16905400

What even happens when someone breaks the spellcard rules? Yorihime broke like half the spellcard rules and nobody even reacted or commented at it...at all.

>> No.16905408

>>16905400

They get written out of existence permanently.

Yori wasn't even mentioned in a game about the moon being attacked, when she runs the Lunar Defense Corps.

>> No.16905416

>>16905382
???????????? Literally when anything dies it is judged by the current Yama. Even if you kill the current Yama you will stand before them when you die. I assume someone will pop in and say Yukari can just manipulate the border so the Yama doesnt exist or that she can't die, but that's diving pretty far into not cannon fan theory when the truth of it is we don't know the extent of her abilities other than she is very very powerful. Powerlevel discussions are doomed to autism about Yukari.

>> No.16905426

>>16905416

See

>>16904245

It's autism but it's canon autism

>> No.16905498

>>16905426
I agree with both you and a lot of the Yukari posters, but that still does not change what I said. Without Zun literally stating in exacts we do not know if Yukari can change the nature of the Horai elixer or if she can just erase the existence of something else with unkown power like the dragon god or whatnot. Yukari is most defiantly one of if not the most powerful but I don't like when it gets to things that have no way of knowing based on canon works.

>> No.16905500

>>16905416

> the current Yama

Of whatever region you are in, and itself Hell doesn't even abide by that system. The Yama and Kishin are interlopers and annoyances in hell, but nothing more.
Hecatia was clear on that in her interview with Aya in AFiEU.

Shiki Eiki is only Yama for a small section of the world that section just so happens to include Gensokyo - she herself refers to this much in PoFV.
Other parts of the world have different judges and they probably call them something else entirely.

>> No.16905523

>>16905500
Pretty sure we were talking about gensokyo and I'm pretty sure I said when they die and I'm pretty sure the Yama judge the dead. Of course you totally got me if you're speaking of Hecatia or someone outside of the judgment of the Yama (whichever one it may be, I never specified Eiki) which is a very small portion of the characters. My comment was more of a snide shitty remark about how powerlevels were stupid in a world like gensokyo I din't actually mean to say the Yama was an OP force walzing in and killing people or anything.

>> No.16905548

>>16905500

Implying Hecatia isn't a worse liar than Aya and Yukari combined

She doesn't even have Gensokyo's best interests in mind with her lies

>> No.16905557

>>16904123
>Reimu could fight by staying outside of reality an not being targetable while summoning an endless wave of gods if we're talking fights without spellcard rules
Then why didn't she beat the moonbitches that way

>> No.16905567

>>16905557

Narrative purposes, moonbitches were deemed to be failed characters anyways

Game about moon
No moonbitches
US flag fairy is in there instead
She becomes MC of a manga

>> No.16905576

>>16905557

Because full-power Fantasy Heaven came after SSiB.

>> No.16907140
File: 143 KB, 500x499, tumblr_inline_mo7sdmrfsI1qz4rgp.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16907140

>> No.16907294

Yukari is just fucking with Gensokyo because she's lazy but also easily bored, if she wanted to she could just create a cult on earth comprised of /jp/sies and then proceed to remove the Hakurei barrier.

>> No.16907444

How Yuuka even figures into power debate is weird, I mean, all she has is raw brute strength when we're talking about reality-manipulating jerks. She's probably dangerous by normal means but when you're talking about all this BS whatever with universal immortality or boundaries of concepts it doesn't seem like she has any card to play in that game.

>> No.16907581

>>16904042
Why does ZUN say "Then again, it seems she was involved in the creation of these rules in the first place, so... " ? What is the purpose of including this bit here?
To be honest I don't want to believe that a smart man like him has actually fallen for the "unlimited power wielded by entity that has a stake in the world" meme. Even here it seems like there's an ambiguity, I'm not sure if it'll ever be cleared up unless someone asks him specific questions directly.

>>16905500
>Other parts of the world have different judges and they probably call them something else entirely.
Logically it should depend on the predominant religious beliefs.

>>16905152
I've never followed the evolution of the wikia. What happened? What kind of information was lost? I could help with the nipnet diving part sometime.

>> No.16907615

>>16903677
Any chance to rematch with that 2 smughime?

>> No.16907628

>>16907581
Yukari is lazy, she wants to be able to fight only when she feels like it and not have to do stuff when she doesn't want to. Hence she helped set up a system that allows her to start fights without any consequences and she doesn't need to work to stay alive. Essentially, Gensokyo is just a NEET playground Yukari set up for herself.

>> No.16907640

>>16903677
>The spellcard rules are in place so that anyone can defeat the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, but what would happen to Gensokyo if someone did defeat her?
Look, the whole point is that the barrier over Gensokyo was a prison for Youkai, but over the centuries the lack of faith in the outside world means that Youkai is safer inside than outside. So instead of keeping monsters in, it stops the outside world from harming Gensokyo.

So suddenly, it became to the best interest of Youkai that the Hakurei shrine survives to maintain the barrier. And that meant keeping the Miko around. Yes, Reimu is strong, but the point is that Reimu is now an essential part of the ecosystem and stability.

One wonders why Reimu even still solve incidents. It seems the only reason no one stops her is because she never told anyone what she is doing. It is possible that if it was plausible to contain her, the Youkai would have stopped Reimu from getting in harm's way every game. They need her alive.

tl;dr Gensokyo needed to keep the barrier up to separate itself from the outside world. That possible consequences of a barrier failure could be outright harm to many Youkai.

>> No.16907650

>>16907628
We all know that, but this isn't logically connected to what ZUN is saying in Strange Creators.

>> No.16907654
File: 145 KB, 348x480, lam_futekia3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16907654

Name one 2hu that could defeat this cute pink witch.

>> No.16907657

Why doesn't Yukari simply manipulate the boundary between belief in youkai and non-belief in youkai in the outside world?

>> No.16907661

>>16907657
What do you expect from a NEET?

>> No.16907674

>>16907661
The NEET meme doesn't hold though, as Yukari is actually quite active. She simply can afford to do nothing for periods of time because she doesn't have day-to-day concerns and she has a network in place that does many things for her.

>> No.16907704

>>16907657
>Why doesn't Yukari simply manipulate the boundary between belief in youkai and non-belief in youkai in the outside world?
There is a problem with that. Belief in Youkai is the source of Youkai's powers. It might in fact, be impossible for Yukari to manipulate human belief. If she could, she would be essentially be able to use her own powers to boost her own powers, and get into an infinite loop.

Faith of humans is so valuable that people fight battles over it. I serious doubt something this fundamental to the function of the universe, could be manipulated this way.

>> No.16907713

>>16907704
I mean, isn't "manipulating humans into giving you faith", how gods become gods? If gods can't get infinite faith, then Yukari can't either. Why the hell do you think gods try to hard to get worshippers?

>> No.16907719

>>16907657
Her power have borders.

>> No.16907749

>>16907704
A lot of things people claim Yukari can do are more fundamental to the "function of the universe" than faith. As far as we know, faith is important only to those beings who have come into existence on the basis of it in the first place. Those beings don't have any sway over the universe.

>>16907713
None of the gods have vague bullshit like "boundary manipulation".

>> No.16907766

>>16903677
Nothing, she has been defeated before.

>> No.16907767

>>16907657
Why don't game masters simply hand the best things over to their players? Because it would be boring and there wouldn't be a game at all.

>> No.16907769

>>16907749
>None of the gods have vague bullshit like "boundary manipulation".
Vague is not the same as omnipotence. The vagueness of her powers just meant we don't know her limits, this is not the same as saying she doesn't HAVE limits.

This is not like some shonen powerlevel bullshit, or JoJo Stands. A vague power just meant that it is not well understood. It does NOT mean you can lawyer your way into infinite power like people do with Index Accelerator.

>> No.16907830

>>16907767
Because rolling die over and over is dull. Wait until VR roleplaying becomes a thing.

>>16907769
>Vague is not the same as omnipotence.
>"Yukari's ability is the "manipulation of boundaries". It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything."
The man's own words. And they're not mistranslated.
>or JoJo Stands
Pretty much all Stand powers are well-defined though. Araki sometimes adjusts them because he didn't think them through well enough (ZUN also does this), but the only thing in JoJo that ever approaches the levels of "this" you mention here is Gold Experience Requiem, and the only thing GER does is to protect you from volitional actions.
Yukari's power is vague bullshit not because it's not well understood (unlike King Crimson in JJBA), but because "boundary" is a problematic concept that a) can be interpreted in various ways b) isn't even valid in the first place (from the absolute point of view). We don't really have any facts to go with her power other than ZUN's words that -in my opinion- still remain cryptic and ambiguous, but a lot of people take them to prove Yukari's omnipotence as long as a "boundary" is involved.
Yukari has to be omnipotent, or far less (I mean far less) powerful than the fans hold her to be. You can't have it both ways saying that she's basically omnipotent except when things like "manipulation of the boundaries of faith" that I never thought about before are involved.

This is all assuming that ZUN simply didn't fall for the stupid meme mentioned previously, of course.

>> No.16907836
File: 472 KB, 854x1200, .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16907836

>>16904245
Yea man, Yukari is totally the stro--

>> No.16907839

>>16907836
It was just a ruse tho

>> No.16907848

Toyohime is actually just Yukari wearing a different outfit. >>16907836 didn't really happen because Reimu didn't see it happen.

>> No.16907852

>>16907839
In a sense, yes. That doesn't change the fact that she wouldn't be able to prevent the destruction of Gensokyo if moon bitches decided to do so. Yukari also privately admits to Ran that creatures of the earth could never defeat the inhabitants of the moon.

>> No.16907865

>>16907852
>she wouldn't be able to prevent the destruction of Gensokyo if moon bitches decided to do so
She can manipulate the boundary between harm and harmlessness of the moonbitch powers. Problem solved.
>Yukari also privately admits to Ran that creatures of the earth could never defeat the inhabitants of the moon.
In the context of an actual war.

>> No.16907872

>>16907830
>Yukari has to be omnipotent, or far less (I mean far less) powerful than the fans hold her to be.
What made you think fan interpretations have any standing here? You don't get to decide Yukari's power limits, ZUN does. So what if she is far less powerful than what fandom believes, that has no relevance to Yukari's abilities.

ZUN is being vague about what Yukari can do because he has no reason to spell it out. Because it makes sense that Yukari would not want people to know her own limits. As one of the de-facto ruler of Gensoko, Yukari would rather that people believe she is omnipotent.

>> No.16907873

>>16907848
Notice how we never see their faces at the same time.

>> No.16907879
File: 328 KB, 769x1000, .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16907879

>>16907865
Why doesn't she manipulate the boundary between winning an actual war and losing an actual war then, HUH?

>> No.16907902

>>16907872
>What made you think fan interpretations have any standing here?
Because I'm questioning those, and whether or not ZUN has actually fallen for the meme.
>ZUN is being vague about what Yukari can do because he has no reason to spell it out. Because it makes sense that Yukari would not want people to know her own limits
Nope, he can say whatever he wants in out-of-universe contexts (such as SCoOW) and it will have no bearing on the actual characters' knowledge.

>> No.16907910

>>16907830
>but because "boundary" is a problematic concept that a) can be interpreted in various ways
Just because it is possible in interpret boundary vaguely does NOT mean her powers work vaguely. It is far more likely that her powers affect boundaries where "boundary" is defined and finite, it's just that we don't know what rules her powers follow.

It's like saying "I have power over heat" means I can freeze the entire universe. Just because one has an ability doesn't mean the ability applies in an infinite magnitude. We know Yukari can manipulate life and death, but she almost certainly has no power over Hecatia, goddess of hell.

To have the power is not the same as infinite power. Anyone's power set can be made outrageous if you assume it has infinite magnitude. Yukari has a very useful power that had wide applications, but to assume she can apply that power in infinite levels of magnitude is a mistake.

>> No.16907915

>>16907902
>Because I'm questioning those, and whether or not ZUN has actually fallen for the meme.
Why does it matter what memes are for? Yukari is not infinitely strong because it makes no sense as she is officially not the strongest in the known character list. It is canon she isn't the strongest, so it is also canon that she doesn't have infinite power. End of story.

>> No.16907917

>>16907879
Why share the glory with plebs when you can take care of everything by yourself?

>> No.16907925

>>16907915
It is just really the flaw of readers and players trying to lawyer their way to omnipotence. It's like "wishing for more wishes" with a genie lamp. Trying to abuse semantics, thinking that you found a loophole to have infinite power. But in the end this is just fanwank and not relevant at all. You can't get infinite wishes, no matter how you insist the rules allow it.

>> No.16908034

>>16907910
>We know Yukari can manipulate life and death
That was one of her claims IIRC. I don't know if it means something simple as cheating your way through bodily destruction or the equivalent of the Hourai Elixir. Because not even life and death are that clearly delineated in real life, it gets even more complicated in Touhou where ghosts and spirits undeniably exist.

I agree with the rest of the post, of course.

>>16907915
>Why does it matter what memes are for?
You're asking the wrong question.

>>16907925
>It's like "wishing for more wishes" with a genie lamp. Trying to abuse semantics, thinking that you found a loophole to have infinite power. But in the end this is just fanwank and not relevant at all. You can't get infinite wishes, no matter how you insist the rules allow it.
This is a terrible example because in the original Aladdin, there is actually no limit to wishes AFAIK. Later on fanfic established the limits of 3 wishes, and then fanwank (can't get more wishes) clashed with fanwank (can get infinite wishes) to establish that you can't get more wishes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, even in the context of 3 wishes, establishing the limit is easier. You can say that the rules allow only for 3 wishes; that would be the main condition the genie's power fails to breach (you can simply wish for more genies like itself though). Yukari's power doesn't resemble this in any way, hence why it's open to so much fanwank abuse.

>> No.16908188

We have literally seen multiple times in both print and game that Yukari is not all-powerful and she has limits.
True, her ability may be able to affect all sorts of physical and conceptual boundaries. And her power is incredible, able to beat down a serious-mode Tenshi all by herself.
But that's a long way from being fucking Q like half of you think she is. Doing boundary hax is not an effortless thing, as shown by her ascent to Heaven. And there is stuff she straight out can't affect, like Eiki's judgement, the Hourai Elixir, and the timing to reach the Moon.
What's more, even though she says she has no weaknesses, she's a damn liar. Gensokyo itself is one, and her origin is another.

And yes, Flan does win the quick-draw against her. For all her power and glory, Yukari is still corporeal. And Flan with the limiters off makes corporeal beings go kyuu, unless they blitz her or one-shot with a vampire weakness. And thus, people like Tojiko and Nitori can beat someone that Yukari can't.

Yukari still rolls Yuuka though because lol brute force vs. Yukari. Gensokyo is still the best game of janken.

>> No.16908193

>>16907910
>We know Yukari can manipulate life and death
Wrong, she can manipulate the border between the world of the living and the world of the dead, which in Gensokyo, are both literal physical place that actually exist.

>> No.16908380

>>16907830
Logic doesn't apply in Gensokyo.

And in addition, ZUN says 'Affect anything'. 'affect' is pretty fucking vague if you ask me. So if he was saying 'It can affect anything' he might be meaning 'to a certain degree' or he might be meaning 'without limits'.

I like to prefer that the latter is the case, because Yukari is explicitly less powerful than Shikieiki, who is not omnipotent considering that both the Dragon God (also known as the Yellow Dragon who originated from Chinese cosmology) and other high-level gods presumably all exist.

>> No.16908387
File: 17 KB, 500x400, AZio5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16908387

>>16907852

>> No.16908388

>>16908380
>I like to prefer that the latter is the case
You mean the former.

>> No.16908426

Reminder ZUN has stated that if the moonbitches were serious about destroying Gensokyo, they would be capable of doing it so quickly no one in Gensokyo would even realize it until it was too late.

>> No.16908844

>>16908388
Yeah. Fucking hell, why did I say latter when I obviously meant former?

I'm a fucking retard.

>> No.16908920

>>16903823
While the act of continuing is canonically possible, the fact that
A) It leads to a bad ending
And
B) The game's dialogue and story only make sense if that's your first time going through
implies that Reimu (or whoever the canon protag is for that game) always makes the "1cc" so to speak.
It's similar to the logic that ZUN used to explain that Marisa B in UFO is the canon route, and that No Miss Legacy is canon to LoLK, so I think it's a fair assumption to make.

>> No.16909362

>>16907879

Gensokyo count of being turned into refugees: 0

Lunaria count of being turned into refugees: 1

>> No.16909402

>>16909362

Yukari lost nothing, Gensokyo lost nothing, Lunaria became so obsessed with protecting themselves against Earth that they forgot they have other enemies.

Clownpiece can be harmed physically as we see in VFiS but Lunaria didn't have robots to attack her.

>> No.16909539

>>16907654
your mom

>> No.16910277

>>16907865
>No limits fallacy

>> No.16910299

>>16910277
>Yukari manipulates the border between fallacies and non fallacies
gg ez

>> No.16910638

>>16908188
> Yukari still rolls Yuuka though because lol brute force vs. Yukari.

See, the problem is, Zun has been very clear that powers and abilities are ambiguous in role and can mean anything they theoretically could mean by stretching the words, the only limitation is the raw power that the character in question possesses.
For this reason Reimu's 'the ability to float' becomes 'the ability to float outside reality' but Sakuya's seemingly massively overpowered 'the ability to manipulate time and space' is relatively weakened. Reimu has a massive power battery whereas Sakuya does not.
Now, understand that Zun has stated that Yuuka has one of (if not the) largest amounts of Raw Power in all of Gensokyo to fuel an extrapolation of her ability - larger than Yukari.
Now realize that she is someone who fights for sport and intentionally handicaps herself. This also according to Zun.
Now understand that Zun has maintained that Yuuka is one of the oldest known characters in Touhou, and constantly refers to her age when it comes to discussion of her power.
(All three of those were not quotes from the SCoOW article, but it too says the gist of this.)
Effectively, what I am saying is, her so-called 'useless ability' is just what people THINK it is, and in reality she's just not using any other part of her ability in a publicly observable way.

So, what is the limit of her ability?
Notice that, in character, Yuuka's ability is listed as the 'ability to cause flowers to bloom' and the 'ability to turn flowers to face the sun', but the moment that Zun steps out of character, her ability becomes the 'ability to manipulate flowers'.
See, that there is a telling change, because 'to cause flowers to bloom' is a one way street, it does one thing; but to 'manipulate' flowers? That can go in whatever direction you want it do go so long as it is inside your dominion - causing a flower to wither and die would be just as easy as causing it to bloom, if not easier.
But that leaves us with an interesting problem.

What is a 'flower'?
Well, in the traditional sense, a flower is a type of budding flora; in a slightly stretched sense, a flower is any flora at all; but let's step back a moment and look at the bigger picture, the culture of the people involved.
What is a flower... to the Japanese?

Well, Luck is a flower.
Love is a flower,
Hate is a flower,
Honor is a flower,
Courage is a flower,
Fear is a flower,
Trust is a flower,
Innocence is a flower,
Kindness is a flower,
Success is a flower,
Desperation is a flower,
Despair is a flower,
Pride is a flower,
LIFE is a flower,
DEATH is a flower,
FAITH is a flower,
TRUTH is a flower,
LIES are a flower,
POWER is a flower,
ABILITY is a flower,
Animals are flowers,
Men are flowers,
Women are flowers,
Japan basically invented the language of flowers, you realize - EVERYTHING is a flower to them of one form or another.
Yuuka's ability could logically stretch to any of this in the same way that Reimu 'floats' out of reality (metaphorics) and Yukari's boundaries and borders manage to affect concepts (metaphysics).

But, more than that, when someone comes into their own, realize their capabilities, or even get stronger, what is the poetic Japanese way of saying that?
Blooming.
That too is connected with flowers.
Yuuka's ability could take hold on that too, it's just metaphorics.
And that means she could also reverse the process. Hers is not just causing flowers to bloom, you know.

Causing a Human, Youkai, or other being to gain great strength, come into their own, or simply wither away into nothingness in the blink of an eye.
In other words, Yuuka is effectively the Touhou personification of Mother Nature - all without violating a word that Zun himself actually said - and everything, everything, ties back into nature in the world of Touhou.
So, Yuuka could be contrived to be the strongest person in Touhou (arguably excluding the immortals), simply by raw power alone.
Yukari's border manipulation? Doesn't mean a thing if her power is withered away into nothingness or the flower of death bloomed in her first.

Remember that someone else out there will always be able to out-autism you.

>> No.16910689

>>16910638
Thanks for reminding me how much worse Yuukafags are than Yukarifags, anon!

>> No.16910694

>>16910689

Anon, I was just saying.
There is always a more autistic argument on anything so 'gg ez' is not even good troll bait.

>> No.16910722
File: 154 KB, 850x834, sample-ec9256834c4bfbcc0df8f1e883451678.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16910722

>>16910638
A bit of a stretch but honestly autism never ceases to amaze me.
This actually makes some sense, but im going to stick with the strongest.

>> No.16910750

>>16904116
Flandre can only destroy things she can perceive, Nue solos.

>> No.16910804

>>16910750
Jokes aside, I really do like the idea that Nue hard counters Yukari, as her power obscures borders.

>> No.16910847
File: 2.44 MB, 1920x1080, Hakumen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16910847

>>16905101
我は空、我は鋼、我は刃 我は一振りの剣にて全ての 「罪」 を刈り取り 「悪」 を滅する!! 我が名は 「ハクメン」、押して参る!

>> No.16910881

>>16910638
>>16910694
I always assumed Yuuka was just like Kurama from Yuyu Hakusho, since she's called the "flower master", and could make all kinds of weird youkai plants fuck you over.

>> No.16910948

>>16907657

Youkai stopped caring about controlling humanity. They live in the shadows in the outside world.

If they cared a strong youkai like Yukari could just go to White House and murder the president in front of cameras.

Suddenly entire humanity would believe in monsters again.

>> No.16910988

>>16910948

Nah, the US military would instead point out that the USSR had been attempting to create warp technology, and that would be taken as some kind of assassination by a foreign power, etc blah blah blah, unified theory of everything.
Don't forget it's canon that by the time of Maribel and Renko, the totally-not-Americans have taken over the moon.

>> No.16911010

Who gives a fuck about Touhou lore this much?

Lmao.

Just read the doujinshi.

>> No.16911034

>>16910638
Even with the contrived giga Yuuka, that would just make it a cowboy duel based on who can use their magic faster. There's no way for Yuuka to defend from getting gapped out of existence with her flower manipulation, and there's no way for Yukari to defend from getting her powers withered away using her boundaries. It's all based on speed at that point.

Anything more will get extremely ridiculous. Saying Yuuka could revive herself by manipulating the flower of existence, saying Yukari could manipulate the boundary of magic to get rid of it and then kill Yuuka by running her over with a car, etc.

>> No.16911062

>>16910948
No they wouldn't, the entire point of the whole "Fear of Youkai" shit is that the moment humanity becomes advanced enought to explain the acts of the Youkai, the Youkai's existence is jeopardized, if Yukari did kill the president in front of the entire world, people wouldn't think she's some sort of mythical beast as much as they'd think she has some sort of sci-fi superpower.

>> No.16911101

>>16911034

> Even with the contrived giga Yuuka, that would just make it a cowboy duel based on who can use their magic faster.

That is true, actually.
That is why past a certain point, Ancient Youkai do not engage with basically anyone near enough to their own power - because all it would basically come down to is Mutually Assured Destruction or a Mexican Standoff.
This is canon, actually. Absolute power equals absolute freedom except where others with absolute power are involved, and then they just kill each other and someone else rises up - the implications of Hecatia's interview in Alternative Facts.

>> No.16911242

>>16911101
Which also ties into the spellcard system.
Stronger Youkai are able to fight and challenge each other without needing to worry about being instantly killed, or the fight being too fast and boring. Weaker Youkai and humans are capable of even standing a chance in the first place.
Without the spellcards, it would be a constant Cold War between the most powerful Youkai.

>> No.16911250

>>16911242
>Without the spellcards, it would be a constant Cold War between the most powerful Youkai.
But there's a Cold War between Youkai

>> No.16911254

>>16911250
It's not as bad as it could be.

>> No.16911276
File: 20 KB, 331x176, SSIBCH2USAFlag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16911276

>>16911254
Lunarians are still mad though

>> No.16911346

>>16911250

> But there's a Cold War between Youkai

Exactly, without the spellcard rules, nobody in Gensokyo except the top two or three youkai would be in the running at all.
Gensokyo would be like hell, except without the libertine mindset.
With the spellcard rules, that cold war expands a lot farther down and suddenly Pax Roma because everyone is a player.

>> No.16911364
File: 30 KB, 399x267, lunarians defeated.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16911364

>>16911276
That's normal behavior for them.

>> No.16911402

>>16911346
This kinda makes me realize why it's so rare to see fanworks with serious conflict that are actually supposed to take place in Gensokyo (Compared to shipping and comedy stuff, that is), usually, when you have a setting full of a bunch of different characters and concepts that bounce off one another, it's usually done to create an element of chaos that gives the vibe that "Anything can happen in this fictional universe", Gensokyo would also be like one of these chaotic settings for stories but the Spell Card Rules and the Youkai-Humans relation both end up almost reversing that, giving Gensokyo the complete opposite type of element that settings like that tend to have.

>> No.16911427

>>16910988
>the totally-not-Americans have taken over the moon

What? It said that it's forbidden to land on the Moon.

>> No.16911442

>>16911062

If she ate him in front of cameras while summoning tentacles made of darkness entire interned would be full of theories in hours. With everything from aliens through mutants to demons.

There are people who believe in demons today. Shit, there are people who believe in flat Earth.

You can argue that the likes of vampires are more popular today than ever.

>> No.16911511
File: 317 KB, 1920x1200, yuuka-kazami-touhou-project-27189-1920x1200 (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16911511

>>16911427
>What? It said that it's forbidden to land on the Moon.
Its obvious to everyone here that the Americans have found a Final Solution to the Lunarian Question. The Question now remains: What did they do with the Technology?

>> No.16911521

>>16907657
Why doesn't Yukari simply manipulate the boundary between Youkai needing believers and Youkai not needing believers?

>> No.16911566

>>16911442
The thing is, the moment a human society tries to rationalize what they don't understand with explanations beyond "It's a Youkai/Demon/Fairy/whatever", it becomes practically impossible for most Youkai to keep existing, you know when people say that if a mascot takes off their mask or helmet, the "magic is ruined", or how if you explain a joke, people will say that you ruined the joke? That's the problem, the MAJORITY (That is, no flat-earthers or other conspiracy nutheads) of people today try to rationalize what they perceive with the best of their comprehension rather than believe that "It's a demon" or other things, if Yukari killed and devoured the president with a bunch of tentacles, the VERY FACT that people would try to explain it in a way that they perceive as making sense and not just go "So there's a monster eldritch lady who just killed the president" is enough to make it impossible for most Youkai to live in the modern world, at most, the Youkai would be replaced with newer, more "grounded" legends that people would fear, but even those would also one day start to be seen as nothing more than legends.

>> No.16911589

>>16911511

Autism the post.

Humans won't be able to touch them for centuries and if they ever get close to the point they are actual danger moonshits will nuke them from orbit.

>> No.16911871

>>16911589
The Lunarian Gods are as much creatures of fantasy as the youkai of Gensokyo are. I'm sure you can extrapolate from there.

>> No.16911924

>>16911871
>The Lunarian Gods are as much creatures of fantasy as the youkai of Gensokyo are. I'm sure you can extrapolate from there.
They pre-dated humans though.

>> No.16912621

>>16907654
trick question, she also is a 2hu

>> No.16918691

Nice but why doesn't Yukari just manipulate the boundary between 2D and 3D?

>> No.16918742

>>16918691
Why would she?

>> No.16918748

>>16918691
She is utterly repulsed by the sight of 3D true horror, she decides to remain completely seal in 2D.

>> No.16918841
File: 2.73 MB, 2480x3507, DancerPatchy(airrabbityan).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918841

>>16905101

Don't know about that series that much. Tell me why please.

>> No.16918863

>>16918841
He has an ability that basically willpowers through shit and is completely variable on the threat of his opponent.
He uses it to shut down reality warping, mind control, forced teleportation, resisting timeloops and reality warping himself. So basically it'd fuck most if not all abilities in Touhou from working on him and instead you'd need to use direct attacks.

Also has an attack that destroys your "time" so you simply cease to exist, he can do this without getting affected by a paradox.

Combine that with having pretty gud stats and yeah

>> No.16918889
File: 230 KB, 1280x1000, BladeBone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918889

>>16918863

Thanks. Kind of guessed it was that type of character.

>> No.16918893
File: 904 KB, 1280x720, Hakumen_(Calamity_Trigger,_Story_Mode_Illustration,_5).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918893

>>16918889
He also inhabits the body of a god.

>> No.16918922

>>16918893
>He also inhabits the body of a god.
That doesn't mean very much. Reality warpers tend to be treated like gods by default.

>> No.16918929

>>16918922
Well no, he's like, tip top tier and inhabits a very special body in the setting (bound to the thing that controls most of reality), though that's not how he counters other things and more like a bonus.

>> No.16918935
File: 302 KB, 1000x769, hakumen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918935

>>16910847

Translation?

>>16918893

Is that why it looks so Awesome?

>> No.16918957
File: 101 KB, 750x629, yukari question.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918957

>>16918935
Ware wa kuu, Ware wa kou, Ware wa jin! Ware wa hitofuri no tsurugi ni te subete no "tsumi" wo karitori "aku" wo metsu suru!! Wa ga na wa "Hakumen", Oshite mairu!

I am the air (emptiness/void), I am the steel, I am the sword With one strike of the blade in my hand all "sins" will be reaped "evil" will be destroyed!! My name is "Hakumen," here I come (to kill you)!

I am the white void. I am the cold steel. I am the just sword. With blade in hand shall I reap the sins of this world, and cleanse it in the fires of destruction. I am Hakumen. The end has come!

Anyway, I wonder why there hasn't been a 2hu with this explicit kind of ability- an anti-ability.

>> No.16918986
File: 1.19 MB, 764x1188, cf1d6627f0be61c9e3c6e73718126bc6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918986

>>16918957
>Anyway, I wonder why there hasn't been a 2hu with this explicit kind of ability- an anti-ability.
You mean a destroyer? She already exists. Rumia.
She is wearing an inhibitor for a reason.

>> No.16918995
File: 1.53 MB, 1920x1200, Medicine Scary.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16918995

>>16918986
An anti-ability is not as much a destroyer as it is an equalizer.
Another interesting ability would be this, though, since you could actually empower youkai pretty easily.

Since you are talking about Rumia, I can bring up Medicine who is a similar case of either untapped or seal potential. Her ability to poison things is so potent that she can make even Yuuka CRY, imagine if she was part of the rebellion with the miracle mallet- she also fucking hates humans and tried to poison the village once.

>> No.16919001

>>16918995
>Another interesting ability would be this
was referring to this post.
>>16904446

>> No.16919056
File: 879 KB, 1920x1080, 1468476591046.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16919056

>>16918957

Good Stuff. Again, thanks for clearing that out.

>> No.16919515

>>16918986
The only problem with the Rumia charm thing is that we don't know how strong she would actually be without it.

>> No.16920087

>>16904652
Woah, that's some luxurious Cirno.

>> No.16920125

>>16918957
Thanks for the translation sempai.

>> No.16921359
File: 257 KB, 455x455, 73.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16921359

The real winner in this fight is ZUN, he'd just make a character even more stupidly OP then anyone else and make it so they kill off Yukari, Yuuka, etc.

>> No.16921367

>>16921359

But, anon.
Yukari and Yuuka and basically every super powerful Touhou are all ZUN's shikigami.
He has no reason to kill them and they are invincible as long as they follow his plot to the letter.

>> No.16921391

>>16918986
>She is wearing an inhibitor for a reason
fanon

>> No.16921413
File: 99 KB, 841x601, IMG_3249.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16921413

>>16918986
>Destroyer
I think you mean pic related.

>> No.16921473

>>16918995
This.
Medicine's power is underrated, if she became older, more powerful or smarter she'd be a massive threat to Gensokyo and especially if she hated humans as much as she does now.

Considering what she could do to Yuuka, she could probably send most of the cast into a coma just by touching them.

>> No.16921587

>>16904326
The gun is a spellcard, which probably explains why it's somehow non-lethal to other humans.

>> No.16923022

>>16921587
or it just shoots plastic pellets, y'know

>> No.16928270

>>16921587
The only humans who get hit by it in-game are all supernaturally powerful.

>> No.16933830

Reimu is cool and all, but could she hold her own against a wizard?

>> No.16933855

touhouverse power hierarchy
1. big G (allah/yahweh/god whatever)
2. other major deities
3. Hecatia and other "older" gods.
4. lunarians, yukari, the 4 devas and yuuka, the yama
5. reimu, marisa, remilia and beings of similar power (a good portion of the cast)
6. the rest (fairies, with the exception of clownpiece and maybe cirno on a good day

>> No.16933897

>>16933855
>2. other major deities
>3. Hecatia and other "older" gods.
If you know anything about Hectate, you would not put her in 3. She is definitely a "major' deity.

>> No.16933900

>>16933897
she's a greek god tho, people don't really believe in greek gods like they used to

>> No.16934043

>>16933900
>she's a greek god tho, people don't really believe in greek gods like they used to
The Statue of Liberty is made in her image. There is a reason it has a torch and the crown was an exact replica. "Liberty" looked nothing like the statue. She is the Roman deity of cross-roads and why she was appropriate as the guild of immigrants in New York.

>> No.16934055

>>16934043
Thing is that people don't quite worship her, most people don't even know who the statue of liberty is modeled after compred to say, God, who has churches all over the world.
You could say that it's passive but it's not world religion tier.

>> No.16934100

>>16934055
>Thing is that people don't quite worship her
Yes they do, more than they do to the Abraham god in America in any case. You don't seem to understand how worship works.

>> No.16934295

>>16934100
You have to genuenly believe in something, that goes for youkai as well.
>Hectate
>as worshipped as the abrahamic god in the collective of both american continents which are vastly majority christian
She has a statue and all, but Jesus also has a statue and he's attributed to be the son of god or god himself in a mortal form.

>> No.16935839

>>16928270
They're still humans. I don't think it's said anywhere in canon that they did so many push ups that they're now immune to gunfire applied directly to their chest.

>> No.16937951

>>16933855
It's not that simple, powerlevels aren't such a simple thing.

>> No.16938030

>>16933830
You mean like marisa? Or patchouli?
Or do they not count as wizards?

>> No.16938057

>>16903677

>> No.16938063
File: 187 KB, 848x1200, IMG_3418.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16938063

>>16903677
>>16938057
Forgot pic

>> No.16938271

>>16938063
imagine the paizuri...

>> No.16938510
File: 673 KB, 1400x1734, __chen_chen_and_yakumo_ran_bakuretsu_tenshi_live_a_live_and_touhou_drawn_by_moss_sphere211__88892a2e551906498c0b834e7d167050.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16938510

>>16903677
Leave the Hakurei shrine maiden to me.

>> No.16940822

>>16938030
Marisa is a straight wizard, Patchy is a sorcerer/wizard hybrid, Alice is an artificer, Byakuren is a cleric/warlock.

>> No.16944126

>>16903823
what if someone was better in a way that no matter how many times Reimu rematched them they always won?

>> No.16947198

>>16944126
Then Touhou would end anticlimactically. (It'd probably be Yukari desu.)

>> No.16947211

>>16944126
>Who is Watatsuki no Yorihime
She'd solo everyone in Gensokyo desu

>> No.16953490
File: 1.03 MB, 3167x4591, hakurei_reimu(alphonse_(white_datura)).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16953490

>>16910847

Translation Pls

>> No.16965647

>>16938063

le heck is that

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