Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1792

[Anonymous No.]

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
http://djtguide.neocities.org/

Previous thread: >>16664303

This thread is for the discussion and learning of Japanese with raw VNs, LNs, anime and manga.
If you have no interest in otaku media or want to request a translation, this is not the thread for you.

Let's have a nice thread by reporting and ignoring off-topic posts.
がんばってゆっくりしていってね！！！

[Anonymous No.]

I took Japanese for 2 years, but was a pretty poor student. My grammar and conventions are pretty good, but I really fell behind the class in vocabulary.

I'm moving to Japan in a few months, and my only problem with holding a conversation is that I don't know vocabulary. What should I do to learn just vocab, nothing else? Should I just start core 2k/6k and then a mining deck, or are there any other things I should know?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682669
If your grammar is "good", then I advise you to just read as much content as you can while looking up vocab. You can supplement this with a mining deck, but I'd say skip core.

[Anonymous No.]

Lads, I can't learn Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

がんばれおにいちゃん

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682678
That's a pretty old image you got there. Where's the bottom one from anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682679

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682689
Rakuen no Shugosha, wherein a small unit of United Nations soldiers sneak through the ruins of a dead city for the purpose of killing the 'most powerful human in existence'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682678

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682701
Oh. I remember you talking about it back then. Wasn't as old as I thought

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682702

[Anonymous No.]

おにいちゃん

なっとうたべよ

おいしいよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682675
Should my mining deck have me learning kanji for the words, or do I just enter it in kana?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682732
If you don't memorise it with the kanji how the fuck are you going to read it?

[Anonymous No.]

How do I unlearn Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682767
Watch manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682767
Take all of the kanji you have learned and distribute them to the homeless.

[Anonymous No.]

がいじんさんが

カップラーメンに

マヨネーズいれるって

ほんとうですか？

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682762
In conversations I guess..?

You make a good point.

[Anonymous No.]

>「もう。寝癖ついてるんだから僕にかまってなければいいのに」
Context is girl is taking time to brush her bed hair and they're getting late to school. Not sure what this line is saying though..

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682732
Not everything has furigana though

[Anonymous No.]

「う……くっ、に、兄さんが子供を作るだなんて言うから、いけないん、ですよ……っ」

[Anonymous No.]

Best Rikaisama substitute for Chrome?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682919
rikaikun

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682635
Hello /djt/.
How many of you have N1 JLPT?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682964
There's tens of us!

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682964
I'm self-assessed N1.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682964
I do.

[Anonymous No.]

だまれデブがいじん

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683031

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682919
firefox

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682969
>>16682991
How do you keep learning nips? I have N2 for 3 years now but got bored from learning more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683080
Compelling content.
Not compelling language.
Compelling *content*.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683080
By using it? If you don't like Japanese media in the first place why learn it.

[Anonymous No.]

スモック好きは

だいたいロリコン

[Anonymous No.]

Did you know that the tools used for translation, they can rip the scripts of VNs in a format that makes it easy to search them for example sentences for words that you mined elsewhere?

That is, so that you can get voiced sentences from the VN instead of an unvoiced sentence from whatever you're reading. Or so that you can look up the filename of the voice file for the line you just actually mined the word from.

him_000001
> 姫百合: 「そこの君」
him_000002
> 姫百合: 「こんなところで何をしてる？」
him_000003
> 姫百合: 「夏本律くん」
him_000004
> 姫百合: 「ちょっと動かないで貰えるかな？」
him_000005
> 姫百合: 「失礼するよ」
him_000006
> 姫百合: 「顎を上げて、肩の力を抜いてリラックス」
him_000007
> 姫百合: 「首、締めすぎ？　息が荒いけど」
him_000008
> 姫百合: 「きつかったら言って」
him_000009
> 姫百合: 「夏本くん」

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683099
Cute but pointless. Effort spent better in reading more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683080
By not being a DJT fag like you. Leaving DJT is the first step. I'm not here either, 99,9% of the time.

DJT is full of brainless posts, beginners asking questions they could just Google, shitposts about eroge (eroge is meant to be played, not shitposted about with brainless idiots here) and people looking for ways to avoid actually putting in effort to learn Japanese (example >>16683099). Especially the last thing is total /r/learnjapanese, everyone there is also desperate for various tricks and shortcuts to learn Japanese, when in reality there are none.

Drop it all and focus on yourself, not pointless internet communities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683086
What kind of content?
>>16683090
First it was just for understanding what is my waifu talking about. Recently I got a translating-related job but it doesn't require pass N2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683120
Go to /int/. This isn't the place for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683103
Writing that post took less than five minutes, what's your problem?

>>16683120
>What kind of content?
Anything. Literally anything. Doesn't matter what. It just has to be compelling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683120
>Recently I got a translating-related job but it doesn't require pass N2.

You should leave, why be stuck in a shit-tier job like that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683127
You are straight from reddit aren't you? No one was talking about writing the post, stop getting offended at every thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683144
I see, you're one of those people that reels in horror at anything that isn't *literally* reading, because you failed so hard at anki.

[Anonymous No.]

My first language is german and I can't find any japanese study material online. Should I try with English material even though my English is flawed?
Any advice from non-english lingos?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683144
>>>/int/

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683130
What's so shitty about translating jobs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683151
I see you're one of those people that can't learn Japanese so they constantly look for random shit to do to evade actually learning. Nice ad hominem by the way, someone who fails at Anki would precisely be the one to obsessively look for ways to make it easier rather than just doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683162
Clearly you can't be doing anything meaningful or interesting if they only ask for N2.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683117
First time posting in /djt/ though. This thread is always shit.
>>16683125
That place is horrible.
>>16683130
I'm just trying to see if it gives me more motivation to get N1.
>>16683162
I thought it would be fun but it is not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683170
I think jobs shouldn't be judged as "shit" by "meaningful or interesting" because in that case 99% of jobs are shit, hardly something worth discussing. Okay work in a comfortable (likely home or office) environment with reasonable pay? Sounds like a good job to me.
>>16683171
Likewise as above, 99% of jobs aren't fun. That's just life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683171
And that's where shit like you who doesn't consume Japanese media belongs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683171
Then go back to /r/japancirclejerk and ask for motivation there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683166
Clearly we have a master of projection here.

Let's cut to the chase.

http://vocaroo.com/?upload

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683191
なんだそりゃ、その小学生向けの文章？

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683144
The moment you used reddit as a boogeyman, you lost any credibility you might have had.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683176
>Likewise as above, 99% of jobs aren't fun. That's just life.
殺し屋は楽しそうよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683202
http://vocaroo.com/?upload

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683205
That's the 1% my friend
Just about every interesting job you can name will end up being obscure and nothing in the face of 30 million truck drivers or what have you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683204
We got it, you're an easily offended Redditor. No need to repeat yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683219
You might want to learn 4chan's post timers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683219
http://vocaroo.com/?upload

[Anonymous No.]

]>>16683206
I'm not the guy you posted it to. I'm just genuinely wondering what are you asking for.

You really want him to prove he can read that simplistic sentence? What will that prove?

Why not take a picture of some Japanese book you own and ask for that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683230
He doesn't actually own anything Japanese, he's too busy tweaking his Anki settings day in and day out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683230
It's a meme.
http://desuarchive.org/a/thread/136972448/#136995262
That's specifically why he said "let's cut to the chase".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683236
I haven't used anki in something like half a year, I'm too busy reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683243
Post your N1 certificate then.

[Anonymous No.]

Why would anyone who could read Japanese use this thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683245
Sorry, I'm a NEET, I have no use for certifications.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683245
Why are you trying to make an example out of someone for posting information?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683245
That has literally nothing to do with the post you responded to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683252
What information?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683258
This information: >>16683099

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683275
>Anki information
>haven't used Anki in half a year
Sounds legit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683275
Ah right, that indeed didn't seem too useful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683278
I don't see the word "anki" anywhere in that post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683279
You're not the judge of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683284
>mined words
>example sentences
The backpedaling begins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683286
People can talk about things that they don't personally do, you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683286
It's time for you to leave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683288
Whatever lets you sleep at night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683293
I don't sleep at night.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683293
>Whatever lets you sleep at night.
The only people that say this are people that refuse to accept something that humiliates them.

This might surprise you, but trying to make an example out of people that you don't know anything about, even though this is an anonymous forum, doesn't get you anywhere. Cute but pointless. Effort spent better in reading more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683300
Yes I'm sure you downloaded the tools, looked through the files of games, ripped them, downloaded Anki, then tested it in Anki but you have no interest in using it yourself at all. Keep deluding yourself mate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683307
I'm not that guy. You're just mad.
>Yes I'm sure you downloaded the tools, looked through the files of games, ripped them
Considering he posted a partial rip I'm sure he did. While his motivations are entirely unknown I can easily see him being part of a translation project and immediately realizing that it trivializes a lot of the trouble with mining that people post about here.
>downloaded Anki, then tested it in Anki
He doesn't have to do this at all if he has the slightest idea how anki works. Which he does, since he used to use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683319
>While his motivations are entirely unknown
No, I think they're entirely known. It's pretty openly laid out: someone who messes around with cute stuff rather than actually learning, by deluding himself that the cute stuff is actually useful and helping him progress.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683307
This might be a surprise, but not everyone that responds to you is the person that you were arguing with in the first place. This should be especially obvious if there's more than one person responding to each of your posts. I'm surprised you haven't put 2 and 2 together and realized that, if I really do spend most of my time reading like I said I do, I wouldn't be arguing. The only reason I'm responding to you at all is because you're clearly confused about who you're responding to and it's shitting up the thread.

And yes, I really don't use anki.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683340
>No, I think they're entirely known. It's pretty openly laid out: someone who messes around with cute stuff rather than actually learning
You don't know that.
>by deluding himself that the cute stuff is actually useful and helping him progress.
He never said anything about it helping him get better at japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683340
>someone who messes around with cute stuff rather than actually learning, by deluding himself that the cute stuff is actually useful and helping him progress
>>16683127
>Anything. Literally anything. Doesn't matter what. It just has to be compelling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683340
Do you think that this argument is somehow helping you learn japanese?

Still waiting on that vocaroo btw. If you can't recite it fluently then arguing on DJT is the last thing you should be doing for your japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683247
Because they can't read it well enough. Because they're still learning.

Japanese might be "just japanese", but to someone that doesn't speak it natively, there's a clear difference in difficulty between different media.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683348
Yes I do. In fact, he showcased it in this very thread.
>He never said anything about it helping him get better at japanese.
Oh got it. He posted it so people become worse at Japanese. Eliminating his competition on the road to becoming the sole Japanese King.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683176
It is just one boring job.
>>16683178
You are retarded.
>>16683170
What are fun N1 required job?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683380
>Yes I do. In fact, he showcased it in this very thread.
You don't and he didn't. Nothing he posted gives any indication that he "messes around with cute stuff rather than actually learning". If anything, you're the one messing around with cute stuff (this "argument" that you started) rather than actually learning.
>He posted it so people become worse at Japanese.
This might surprise you, but posting something on 4chan doesn't suddenly make people worse at japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683380
>>>by deluding himself that the cute stuff is actually useful and helping him progress.
>>He never said anything about it helping him get better at japanese.
>Oh got it. He posted it so people become worse at Japanese.
You might want to work on your english reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683247
to help

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683391
>What are fun N1 required job?

Researcher in the fields of Japanese language, history and literature. But these would need proficiency even above N1. And active too.

Personally I'm trying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683099
Thanks, I can basically delete my entire mining setup thanks to this.
>>16683103
Fuck off and don't come back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683397
I'm pretty sure I posted a neutral one liner comment and he got offended by it because he's clearly some weak-skinned dud native to Reddit is what started the chain.
>but posting something on 4chan doesn't suddenly make people worse at japanese.
Ok?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683410
>I'm pretty sure I posted a neutral one liner comment and he got offended by it
Judging by the length of your argument so far, it was certainly not a neutral post.

In fact,
>>16683144
this is a much, much more "offended" statement than "what's your problem?".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683414
Hm not really. I think your perception is flawed here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683410
Nothing gave any indication that he's from reddit, or weak skinned even. He hasn't even been posting. The only problem here is you. Yes, you. Making wild accusations and causing extensive arguments because someone responded negatively to your negative response.

[Anonymous No.]

>Should (you) check this over once more?
>Sure, I'm used to it.

Why is the answer here #2?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683425
Why are you talking of yourself in 3rd person?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683425
You should have just not tried "defending" me if you were going to give up at a time like that you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683404
How is it going?

[Anonymous No.]

In what contexts are the kanji names for western countries used? 米国, 英国, 西国, 富国, 独国, 露国 etc. China is (nearly?) always called 中国, and Japan is obviously always called 日本(国), but what about western countries?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683627
I usually see those as abbreviations when talking about international relations, as in 日露 etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683152
English is fine

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683603
The sign-ups for the Japanese education program I'll go for will only open in few months, so now I'm focusing on finishing my education in my home country.

But I already have a reseach proposal almost finilized, so that gives me some safety of mind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683627
Ack, 仏国, not 富国.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682678
>tfw can read the second one easily

I did it lads, I learned Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683741
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

くにめいはね

News paper用語ようごがあって

できるだけ短くすることになってるので

「国」はつけないよ

日＝Japan
露＝Russian Federation
中＝People's Republic of China

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682678
>>16683741
Not to rain on your parade, but I believe the second picture is a bait for those forever stuck in said intermediate phase. It's actually pretty easy and only seems difficult even juxtaposed with that top one sentence image.

Or is the bottom one really what counts as hard in DJT?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683754
Yeah, I think that was the joke.
I hope he was joking, at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683741
It's all jouyou kanji with short, slangless formal sentences.
Try this, captain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683763
Someone about secretly distributing porn to earn some money? Yeah, that's way harder though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683763
I can read and understand this fine, but I'd have a hard time translating it to English. Well, I guess that's what I get for not being a native English speaker. I can't quickly think up anything that would nicely fit for 微々たる代物 when speaking about a money being made.

Mareni's works also have harder passages that this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683763
>>16683802
btw what VN is this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683852
https://vndb.org/v10678

[Anonymous No.]

How could I translate "I made my order last week, my card has been charged already, but the item still hasn't shipped"?
I only don't know what should I use for "my card has been charged"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683810
"Pittance" would be good for that. I don't really get what アージェント means in this context though so I can't attempt a sentence translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683925
If you understood the rest of the sentence there is no way you can mistake its meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683898
カード決済は完了済み

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683925
Yeah, "mere pittance" sounds like it could work. I guess if I were a native, I could come up with that too.

Btw you got pretty BTFO'd by >>16684039
The context makes it really clear it's a name.

[Anonymous No.]

>強引に入れようとして押し込もうとしたとき、棚から書類が雪崩れ落ちてきた。
>強引に入れようとして押し込もうとしたとき
The double volitional + として/とした throw me a bit off here. "When I began to put it in by force and the moment I tried to push" ? Can someone explain this or maybe put it more eloquently in English

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684413
The volitional ending here isn't acting volitional, rather it's inviting a possible idea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684413
as I tried to cram it in in an attempt to forcefully insert it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684445
>rather it's inviting a possible idea.
How do you mean?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684445
Uh I don't really get what this means.. also this is clearly in the past with the てきた, so how is it a "possible idea" when it definitely happens
>>16684459
I guess this makes sense. Think of the として as the "as" and the other one as the normal volitional attempt. Thanks

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684482
>Think of the として as the "as" and the other one as the normal volitional attempt.
No, bro. They're both "the normal volitional attempt"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684476
When I went to maybe force it in, maybe forcefully
The volitional ending is volitional when someone is making a statement about their own volition. Otherwise it's an invitation to do or believe something. See also だろう etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684482
>Think of the として as the "as" and the other one as the normal volitional attempt.
That's not how I did it. You asked for a more eloquent way to put it in English so I flipped the sentence around to make it more English-like.

The "as" is the とき, if you want to think of it that way. "At the time of."

>押し込もうとしたとき
As I tried to cram it in
>強引に入れようとして
in an attempt to forcefully insert it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684502
What I don't get is why
>入れようとして
is
>attempt to insert it
While the other volitional is "tried to". Maybe I need it more literally to understand it..

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684518
You don't understand the difference between attempting and trying?

The difference is I didn't want to use the same word twice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684518
There's no "attempt to" or "try" there, anon doesn't know japanese well enough to elaborate on the specific thing you're confused about. He didn't express it "eloquently in english", he expressed his interpretation of the sentence in english, which is basically on par with your level of comprehension of it in the first place.

You'll do best to drop the notion that the "volitional" form always specifically means volition, because it doesn't. That notion is going to throw you off in situations like these where it's obviously not used the same say as "行こう。" etc, which are not at all uncommon, like this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684525
So how would you translate it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683754
>post any Japanese and reference it as being difficult
>people flock, every time, to call it easy
Like clockwork, DJT. Like clockwork.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684525
>to elaborate on the specific thing you're confused about
Well do you? I don't really know how else to think of the volitional form, so please explain and offer an alternative to give me deeper understanding of it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684537
I doubt he would at all, since he only seems interested in making sure everyone knows he understands things more deeply than they do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684537
When I was going to cram it in, about to try to force it in,

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684542
Do you want a linguistics lesson?

[Anonymous No.]

Ok so no one knows the answer and everyone just likes to pretend they know without giving it out. Amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684559
Are you the person who asked the original question?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684559
What's your question babe, I'll answer it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684413
You're trying too hard to think of japanese in terms of literal equivalences to english.

Stop that. Or you won't actually learn japanese, no matter how hard you try.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684548
Eh. Yea, I agree. Don't really think that differs that much from the other anon's translation, though.
>>16684559
I'm pretty sure everyone knows the answer in fact. The disagreement is over the translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684559
I would invite anyone to point out specific discrepancies in this translation >>16684502

Both the 入れようとして and 押し込もうとする are "try to, attempt," but one of them is put into the て form because it's leading into the next thought. It's an awkward phrase to try to translate into English because we wouldn't normally formulate thoughts that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684567
>Eh. Yea, I agree. Don't really think that differs that much from the other anon's translation, though.
I was picking on their explanation of their translation, not really their translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684518
They are the same use of the volitional, ignore the other retards who replied to you please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684570
Hint: て is an adverbial/non-finite form. The non-finite english forms are the participles and the infinitive. Use this knowledge in your attempt to create an english equivalent of this phrase.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684574
They're the same as eachother but they're not the same as the "normal volitional" (in JSL terms). Please do not intentionally use ambiguous wording in your posts.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh boi I feel like this might be this thread's big argument. Let me put on some coffee boyos

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684583
Would you mind linking me to a definition of "normal volitional"? Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684592
This one:
>食べよう
>Let's eat
>行こうか
>How about we go?
But not this one:
>犬だろう
>It's probably a dog.
>許されようか
>Won't you allow it?
The former is how almost all grammar resources introduce the volitional, and whenever beginners get to that point and then run into other uses of the volitional in the wild, they get confused as hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684602
Okay, so "normal volitional" is just a term you made up on your own? To clarify.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684611
That's what scare quotes are for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684616
It just surprises me that you would accuse someone of using "intentionally ambiguous wording" because they didn't take into account your boutique grammatical terminology. Not to mention you then go ahead and use the exact same wording as me ("uses of the volitional") in a later post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684623
It's time for you to stop posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684623
I never said anything like that. You might want to work on your english.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684626
Don't tell me what to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684602
>だろう
This is a volitional? I thought it was just a word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684631
I'll tell you to do whatever I want you to do. It's my own volition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684634
Yep, that's a so-called volitional.

Grammatical terminology is garbage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684629
You did, and to boot you don't even know anything about Japanese. Noone would interpret 許されようか as "won't you allow it." This would almost definitely be equivalent to 許されるだろうか.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684634
でしょう
であろう
etc
The linguistics jargon for these things, hortative etc, is borderline OK but is literally incomprehensible to people who don't go out of their way to study linguistics-as-such.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684623
>boutique grammatical terminology

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684647
>You did, and to boot you don't even know anything about Japanese. Noone would interpret 許されようか as "won't you allow it."
You don't know japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684653
How much have you read? Be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684647
>Noone would interpret 許されようか as "won't you allow it." This would almost definitely be equivalent to 許されるだろうか.
Not only is the former interpretation entirely OK, the replacement japanese you provided is significantly rarer than the original example.

[Anonymous No.]

One person of this argument is definitely the obstinate guy from yesterday talking about how he lives in Japan and wants to record Japanese peoples testimony for proof, isn't it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683429
>>16683429
>>16683429

Anyone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684663
A lot more than you, apparently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684669
>not very much

This is why you shouldn't comment on things you don't understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684674
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684540
What's your point? From my point of view that bottom picture was easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684667
no clue

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684576
He asked for an English translation so I gave him an English translation. Explain how my translation is wrong. What am I omitting or inserting?

>Hint: て is an adverbial/non-finite form. The non-finite english forms are the participles and the infinitive.
I don't even feel like this information is relevant. "in an attempt to forcefully insert it" is modifying the "As I tried to cram it in," which makes it adverbial in a sense. What do I lose by not making an exact one-to-one translation of every grammatical term as you've defined them?
>Use this knowledge in your attempt to create an english equivalent of this phrase.
Why don't you, if you're so much wiser than me?

Point out the exact difference in meaning between
>強引に入れようとして押し込もうとしたとき
and
>as I tried to cram it in in an attempt to forcefully insert it
or else quit trying to act like you're contributing to the conversation in any meaningful way.

That's what I hate about these threads, everyone only cares about being the best one at Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684664
That use of the volitional is not rare at all (which you would know if you had read any significant amount of Japanese literature) and the other interpretation is grammatically incorrect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684685
>That use of the volitional is not rare at all
Nobody called it rare.
>and the other interpretation is grammatically incorrect.
It's not. You don't know English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684684
>He asked for an English translation so I gave him an English translation. Explain how my translation is wrong.
>>16684571
>I was picking on their explanation of their translation, not really their translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684667
Though it was wierd as well and looked it up, and apparently うん has this usage as well
>https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%81%86%E3%82%93-442495
>あいまいな返事をするときに用いる語。 「 －、まあ考えておきましょう」
Maybe that's what happening here. Not familiar with it myself, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684687
Stop posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684685
>and the other interpretation is grammatically incorrect.
Hmm, maybe this guy's got something going on-
>>16684602
>>Won't you allow it?
Seriously? There's literally nothing wrong with this. At all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684692
Why should I stop posting?

[Anonymous No.]

This place is reddit central, Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684681
I have no point, I was just expression exhaustion at how tedious so many DJT regulars are.
>From my point of view that bottom picture was easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684684
>That's what I hate about these threads, everyone only cares about being the best one at Japanese.
I'm not even remotely part of this argument but yeah, 100% agree. Sometimes I wonder why that kind of poster even bothers coming to an anonymous imageboard if they care so much about e-penis and ``winning'' arguments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684703
It's not reddit's fault that you're an argumentative autist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684548
Where is the past form in this? とした ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684704
But I'm not a regular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684690
Then what's wrong with my explanation? I want you to defend this statement
>He didn't express it "eloquently in english", he expressed his interpretation of the sentence in english, which is basically on par with your level of comprehension of it in the first place.
because you seem to be saying my interpretation of the sentence is somehow lacking, despite conceding that there's nothing wrong with my translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684709
Yes, but it could also be the retrospective aspect. Japanese doesn't distinguish between the past tense and the retrospective aspect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684707
>using two ` and two ' for quotation
is this a meme

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684714
Anon, it's time to let it go. The person you're concerned about is long gone. You have to get thicker skin if you're going to respond to people that mention what you post on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684722
if he's going to call me bad at Japanese he should say it to my face motherfucker, not online

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684711
Then I will forgive you for not knowing how tedious your response was.
It was very tedious.
People respond to all Japanese referenced to as "hard" as easy, very consistently and it's very tedious, as it misses the point entirely of such posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684725
not a chance

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684730
Hardest japanese on the face of the planet right here. Seriously. I have no idea what this girl is saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684720
No, but using quote markup incorrectly is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684728
But this time it really seemed like a bait to intermediate learners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684728
No one said that in regards to the Mareni screen that was posted right after. So no, you just posted an easy screenshot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684738
I'm sorry but even that line of thinking is tedious.
"I just don't know how someone could think of that as hard, it's just so easy!"
>>16684741
Mareni is a rare exception as he is indeed pretty much as hard as you can get.
But even that Mareni image had this reply
>I can read and understand this fine
>Mareni's works also have harder passages that this.
A subtle "yeah that's easy".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684745
That specific Mareni (Astelight) was easy. I've seen passages from Albatross that took me more effort.

Do you blame me for telling you this truth?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683763
What is the ととしては in the 2nd-3rd lines? I don't really get what it is doing grammatically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684717
I'm not sure what you're Yes'ing to since I didn't make a statement. But in any case, elaborate. I think the として (present) followed up right after with the とした (past/retrospective something?) is the main thing confusing me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684728
>People respond to all Japanese referenced to as "hard" as easy, very consistently and it's very tedious, as it misses the point entirely of such posts.
Such posts hardly ever have a point to begin with. Taking an excerpt of relatively simple text and comparing it with a single line of /a/-tier Japanese is retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684754
As far as Argent was concened...

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684755
>として (present)
tenseless, like "to eat" is tenseless

a te-form "inherits" the tense of whatever it connects to, like infinitives and gerunds do in English

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684754
typo lel. it's just としては

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684767

[Anonymous No.]

文法の水かけ論はそんなに鬱陶しいなら日本語で討論するまでのことだ
どちの日本語がいいかはすぐに見えるよ

別に私の日本語は優秀とか言ってないんだけど

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684785
Cool, you found another one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684786
そのびっくり箱ってなんのためなの？

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684752
I'm actually glad that you just called it easy so >>16684741 can be btfo
Like I said, clockwork. All Japanese referred to as hard will be called easy by someone.
I'm not upset about the truth. I'm just weary that people like you will never stop calling things easy, over and over and over and over. It's so tedious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684763
The とと is what is messing me up though
>>16684767
kek if true, here I was thinking it was some sort of advanced secret grammar. It being a typo was all I could think of but didn't want to open myself up with "how dare you beginner scum proofread Mareni" etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683429
もう一度確認したら（どうですか）
Why don't you check it one more time?
うん
Sure.
慣れてるし
I'm used to it (this is a reason for agreeing to check)

I think the answer should be 1.

解説は書いてないの？

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684796
弱気な言い方を感じさせるためだよ
でも、びっくり箱ってそんなふうに形容するなんて初めてみるのだ、笑った

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684683
>>16684691

Yeah I don't know either, thanks though.

>>16684822

書いてない。The book is meant for high(ish) level so it's assumed that you will be able to interpret any of your own mistakes if you make them. That is fine 99% of the time but I think that one might actually be a mistake in the answer book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683429
>>16684841
"I'm used to it (so there's no need to check.)"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684841
Pay close attention to the sentence enders. It would be awkward for tge answerer to use shi to respond to tgat shitara question if it were answer one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684766
Huh? How is it tenseless?
食べて
して
見て
Are all present no? Just like "I eat / do / watch this" is present in English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684874
ピザを食べて帰った

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684874
>歩いて学校に行った
I walked to school
>歩いて学校に行く
I (will) walk to school

it changes between walk and walked depending on the final verb

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684874
Those are imperatives. They don't grammatically work like the te-form. The te-form is just coincidentally used to make this imperative.

Also, the nature of imperatives at the tense phrase level is still under debate in academic linguistics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684893
But 〜て as imperative is just short for 〜てください, no?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684900
And kudasai has a tense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684902
Yeah, but my point was that 買って as short for 買ってください is not the same as 買って as in 酒を買ってきた.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684909
Yes

[Anonymous No.]

>土台となる基本
>the foundation that becomes the foundation
I'm starting to see why E-J dictionaries suck.

[Anonymous No.]

daybook is my favorite country

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685109
sun originなんだよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685109
I prefer two cylindrical objects.

[Anonymous No.]

stupid but serious question.
how much time does it take to be able to read a ln like 香辛料と狼 without dictionary and no grammar reference?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685211
S&W has a lot of economic and money related terms in it, many of which I'm sure natives would have trouble with.
So probably quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685211
I have 10+ years of English experience on me and I still need to use the dictionary feature of my Kindle quite a bit when reading books. There's always gonna be occasional words you look up even when you become "fluent". I think what you meant to ask is when are you no longer *reliant* on a dictionary, and you can achieve that at the 2-3 year mark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682919
Try Rikaigu and Yomichan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685211
Without a dictionary, an extremely long time, but with occasional dictionary use you could do it in a year, probably. SWI was only the second LN I read and I didn't think it was that bad.

[Anonymous No.]

わっちわっち

ってどうなの？キノとどっちがむずかしい？

[Anonymous No.]

How do you prefer to tackle multiple routes in VNs? Do you skip back to the earliest decision or just start everything again from the beginning?

[Anonymous No.]

Does ちょっと待ってください sound girlish?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685395
Depends on the VN, if it has a fast skip function it's usually fine to start from the beginning, while if there's a long common route you'd want to save.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685409
No, none of the polite forms sounds girlish so stop saying that

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685409
ちょっと待って
ちょっと待ってくれ
ちょっと待ってくれないか
ちょっと待って下さい
ちょっと待って下さいませ
少々お待ち下さい
少々お待ちになって下さい
少々お待ちになって頂けませんか

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone here played the 英雄伝説軌跡シリーズ games in Japanese? Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16684841
Not to be like that other guy, but I asked a Japanese coworker since I couldn't really come up with a definitive answer.

The long and short of it is that with so little context, it could go either way. While I was stuck on the うん, assuming it was an affirmative response, she was more concerned with the 慣れてるし. The うん here could possibly not be an affirmative response, but simply a way of acknowledging the man's question being directed at the woman.

She mostly was confused at what the 慣れてる is referring to - whether the woman is used to the unspecified task or used to checking said task. It could be taken to mean either of these, but I suppose it would be more common to assume the former. Thus, you'd get something like >>16684857 .

>I'm used to (the task) (so there's no need to check).

Not sure how helpful it is. We both agree that it's a pretty bad question, though.

[Anonymous No.]

How broad is your Japanese vocabulary /deejaytee/?

https://www.arealme.com/japanese-vocabulary-size-test/ja/?ag

I couldn't get past the first question.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685431
>the best one, ちょいまった no where to be found

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685599
Got 20200. I had to guess for most of them near the end.

[Anonymous No.]

Apologies for visual clutter replying to so many people, but just in case anyone who replied is interested. >>16684683 >>16684691 >>16684822 >>16684857 >>16684865

I posted the question to chiebukuro (http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q14171478439)) and the answers there pretty much confirmed what >>16685478's coworker said, namely that it's not phrased very well but the answer is indeed #2 based on the information given.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685714
>ちょっちまって

とか

>ちょいまち

とかもしゃべりことばではつかわれるんじゃないかなあとおもうよ

>まっちくりー

これはしご

[Anonymous No.]

変態ビデオゲームは楽しいぜ

お父さんと一緒にプレイしていたの

お前らは同だ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683391
> require N1
N1 isn't really as important as functioning fluency.

I got my job by interviewing in Japanese well. My N1 was a footnote that they barely mentioned.

[Anonymous No.]

How do you know whether 入る is read はいる or いる

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686332
It is virtually always はいる when it's by itself. いる is only used in set expressions like 入り口 and 気に入る.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686367
Thanks friend.

[Anonymous No.]

>無修正のわいせつ動画を配信したとして警視庁保安課は９日、米国籍でアダルト動画サイト「カリビアンコム」のサイト制作担当、サープ・マイケル・ナオミチ容疑者（３４）をわいせつ電磁的記録等送信頒布容疑で逮捕したと発表。米国から旅行で沖縄を訪れたところを逮捕した。同サイト関係者の日本での逮捕は初とみられる。

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685395
I do whatever the guide tells me to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685768
thanks

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686514
I don't understand, he ran an American porn site and was arrested while on vacation in Japan for not blurring genitals? What? I must be missing something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686683
>he ran an American porn site
He was an American who ran an uncensored Japanese porn site from the US. 米国籍 is describing サープ・マイケル・ナオミチ容疑者（３４）.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686683
にほんにぜいきんはらっていれば

きんきゅうたいほまではいかなかったんじゃないのかな

よくわからないけど

[Anonymous No.]

語彙を増やすいい方法知って欲しい

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686799
あら、あたしたちのことを思っててくれてありがとうね

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686813
おばさん、何言ってるの？

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686815
だって、あたしたちに知ってほしいでしょ？
なんて親切な子！

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686823
僕知るかよ

だから、知ってほしいって言ってたさ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686833
それ、それ！
それがやさしいの
ありがと～

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686837
よく出来た漫才だったね
第一良賞を授けてやろう

[Anonymous No.]

懐かしくてデジモン・アドベンチャーすごいアニメだよ

本当に子供に戻ったかな

[Anonymous No.]

おなかすいた

たいやきたべたい

あんこー

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685445
very very wordy, and the entire fun of the game is to talk to all the dynamic NPCs. i imagine if you play it in Japanese you might get tired / into the mindset of skipping them which defeats the point of the game. so only play if you are truly prepared to tackle a whole lot of text

[Anonymous No.]

しょうひぜいたかい

しょうひぜいが

たかいよー

ふぇぇ

[Anonymous No.]

I hate imoutofag so much. Someone needs to ban this piece of shit for his constant off-topic posting already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687227
I just wish he wouldn't repeat the same stupid sentences all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683152
German material is shit, Japanese learning books and material in German barely exists, whatever I tried is inferior to the English material.
On the bright side, if you give your best you'll be able to learn Japanese and get better at English at the same time.

In case there is a Japanese word, that you don't understand the English definition of, check out https://www.wadoku.de/

Also there are words that you can't really translate into English, they sometimes describe words like that "to do something in that specific way until that point in time" or something equally retarded, but when you look up the German definition you sometimes see just one word that fucking nails it. (of course that's not always the case and the english definition is better)

Yeah reading grammar guides might be a little bit rough but you can do it Kamerad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16683152
My mother language is Russian and I live in Germany, speaking both languages. I use English resources and while my English is pretty good already I feel like it is still improving and that I am learning new words so rather than it being a hindrance to learning Japanese I feel it enables me to improve both. Just keep at it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687227
>>16687239
>彼

[Anonymous No.]

reminder that if your post isn't on-topic in english it's not on-topic in japanese either

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687414
reminder that your ゲイ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687414
Speaking Japanese is a way of learning it (1)
This is the thread for learning Japanese (2)

Combine (1) and (2)

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687458
Speaking This Japanese is is the a thread way for of learning learning it Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687485
You fucked up at the end.

This is why you can't learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

ホンキー人が嫌い

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687517
めんごめごん

[Anonymous No.]

Is there an English mannerism equivalent to saying ね a lot? Like, when a girl is trying to sound cute and... girly, and she adds ね to the end of sentences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687678
Wrong thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687678
"Right?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682635
questiong how do you pronounce the small hiragana/kana at the end of a word?

はなひらっ！

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687741
Finish learning hiragana before posting here

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687741
It's pronounced "xtsu"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687741
It sounds like a sneeze
Colds are very serious in Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687741
that's not even kana, it's just an exclamation mark. it adds emphasis to the sentence, and often means the sentence is yelled or said very enthousiastically

[Anonymous No.]

お前は崖に身を投げてください。

[Anonymous No.]

Manga is really boring, what do you guys usually read for reading practice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687825
The other mediums that have text, retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687825
正直に I only find manga fun

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687842
You'll grow out of it once you hit puberty don't worry.

[Anonymous No.]

おっぱいモミモミしたい

[Anonymous No.]

ビネス

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687873
逮捕

[Anonymous No.]

test

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687976
>test
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.]

>病気が相手では彼女は感情のぶつけどころが無くなってしまう。
I don't get this sentence what's it mean

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688002
Context?

[Anonymous No.]

>部屋にくる
Is there a reason Tae Kim uses hiragana instead of 来る?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16686833
>知りたい
I want to know
>知ってほしい
I want you to know

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688092
来る is often written in kana

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688002
>病気が相手では
When the "相手" is an illness
(When faced with illness)
(When it's against illness)

彼女は...無くなってしまう。
she loses
(her...disappears)

感情のぶつけどころが
ぶつけどころ for feelings

Now what's ぶつけどころ?
https://hinative.com/ja/questions/551672

Now all you need to know what's meant by 感情をぶつける. Meaning 3 for ぶつける in Koujien is what you want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688111
Wow, thanks. Mainly ぶつけどころ I didn't get, I thought it was the denial thing which hurt my head a lot but it's just ところ... Also didn't know ぶつける has the 隠さずに言う thing. Makes sense now.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a point where I slowly begin to understand what's being said on the fly without having to translate everything slowly inside my own head?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688180
Are you monolingual? I stopped doing that like a month in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688180
Read for a few hours a day and it won't take long. Nothing to do with being monolingual.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688188
I only know English. So, I guess? Been at it for like 10 months.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688199
>a few hours a day
While it is true it won't take that long at that pace, but someone on the beginner/intermediate end will burn themselves out quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688221
>10 months
That isn't really meaningful information.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688251
I don't follow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688221
How much have you read? Read one medium-length VN and you shouldn't be translating most sentences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688258
There's a difference between "10 months of reading for at least 3 hours every day" and
"10 months of doing nothing but an hour of Anki per day because some eternal beginner fed me a bunch of bullshit and tricked me into becoming an Ankidrone"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688266
Did anki (lowercase) kill your mother?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688266
Hu...huh...

[Anonymous No.]

Whilst assigning things like 犬 to a mental image of a dog isn't overly hard, when you get to things like 何 it becomes slightly odder because if you think about in English, what the fuck is a "what?"

[Anonymous No.]

there is a certain breed of DJT poster who believes that he is the only one who has properly learned Japanese because only he knows the proper method and everyone else is just screwing off

this poster will often answer a question about grammar by criticizing the question itself, berating everyone else who offers an answer for being unqualified to do so, and then telling the questioner which question he should actually be asking

posters like this should be ignored and avoided because they can offer you nothing, they just want you to know that they're better than you

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688310
Please quote the post that hurt your feelings at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688310
I win either way as you can't identify me without first reading my posts

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688308
You surely have some kind of image connected to that word or any other, such as the lolwut pear.

[Anonymous No.]

きっと、早瀬がイヤって言ったら言ったで、なんのかんのがマン出来ずにしちゃったよ。だから早瀬が、そんな顔することないって。

I'm getting confused on the 言ったら言った part and what the hell is なんのかんの.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688308
You put it into context, so you can think of it as "what" in the sense of "what did you have for breakfast?" Or 何 as in 今何時ですか？ Since you already know implicitly what those phrases mean it makes sense as part of the whole.
You shouldn't have a mental image for words like that on their own because they don't mean anything on their own, what they're doing only becomes clear when you have the whole sentence in your head

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688390
http://thesaurus.weblio.jp/content/%E4%BD%95%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8B%E3%82%93%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A8

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688180
It won't happen by itself, you must choose to stop doing it. I suppose a lot of people stop it out of laziness so they get the impression that it is automatic, but if you've been doing it for that long you might never stop without a conscious effort.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688390
たら～たで means "whether or not".
>whether or not she said いや

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688445
To add further to this, even when you've decided to stop translating, that stupid little english voice in your head will continue for a while, you just have to let him know he isn't wanted and eventually he'll pipe down.

[Anonymous No.]

Okay anons, I have a question about core 2k/6k. In this card I need to learn the word 一般. But I need to learn the phrase too when I press show the card button? pic related

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688453
That's false and doesn't capture the nuance at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688488
What do you think is right? I'm all ears and willing to improve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688478
No. The sentence is there to clarify that they don't mean the military rank.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688478
As someone using the 10K deck, the phrase is just an example.

Though do learn the other words in the phrase. Like 席.

[Anonymous No.]

Has anyone here actually learned all the jouyou kanji by rote?

I'm at 1160 kanji now and was doing pretty well until a few days ago, but now I'm starting to get mixed up due to overlapping meanings and such.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688567
Why would you subject yourself to this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688501
I see, thanks anon

[Anonymous No.]

What are some VNs that have a broad vocabulary besides Mareni? Starting to get hard to meet my new word quota.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688608
Because when I tried learning kanji through vocab, I only ended up learning to recognise the general shape of the kanji, thus whenever I came across words written with vaguely similar kanji I would get them mixed up.

As for mnemonics, while I found them effective, I could never get over how juvenile they felt. Maybe it's a bit autistic of me, but I hated having these silly stories attached to the kanji I learned that I would involuntarily remember ever time I saw them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688390
>>16688453
From Googling ～たら～たで I find:
https://books.google.com/books?id=AULTOtDXPisC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=%E3%81%9F%E3%82%89%EF%BD%9E%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A7&source=bl&ots=cZ8eRii6PE&sig=8j_BbUe3kijgE89E8WdEkEJmPCw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwienoj79snSAhXrqVQKHamKBcw4ChDoAQg4MAQ#v=onepage&q=%E3%81%9F%E3%82%89%EF%BD%9E%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A7&f=false

「ＡたらＡたで」 expresses the idea that the outcome of A would be different than one might expect.

I don't know how to translate the rest without context, but
>きっと、早瀬がイヤって言ったら言ったで
would be something like
>Surely, if Ayase /did/ say no, then...

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688656
That source says that the outcome doesn't change even if A happens - rather, A is the part that's allowed to go differently than expected. "Whether or not X" is an OK way to explain it in english because it retains the same logical entailment. The "literal" way to translate it would be "even if X", but that has a different nuance in english because it's frequently used for necessarily true Xs.
Also, the use of たら implies a temporal nature to the entailment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688654
Do you really need to do all the jouyou kanji for that? You just need to get your brain to see kanji in terms of radicals. I'd guess a few hundred would be enough. I did 2000 kanji with RTK, but after that had no problem recognizing the ~1000 or so non-RTK kanji I've learnt in vocab. So I don't think the specific kanji matter so much as the ability to break them down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688677
I just wanted to be more helpful than the other faggot who replied to you was. I agree "whether or not" would be fine in many circumstances. And I agree that the outcome doesn't change—it's just not the outcome you would expect, as I said.

Examples from the text:
>遅刻してしまったら遅刻してしまったで、先生に理由を正直に言うしかない。
Even if I am late/If I do turn out to be late, there's nothing to do about it but give the teacher my reason.
Whether or not I'm late, all I can do is tell the teacher why.
A new proper course of action arises if being late occurs (so that one can still get by by being late, but must do so differently than you would expect).

>テストの点数が悪いと叱られるが、よかったらよかったでカンニングを疑われるから嫌だ。
I'll be scolded if my grade on the test is bad, but if they do turn out to be good I'll just be accused of cheating, so no thanks.
The outcome of the grade being good is still bad, despite what you would imagine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688772
Yeah, you were more helpful. Thanks. Always good to have direct sources rather than just some random loser posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688638
If you've already read all of Mareni you really don't need to farm more vocab or sit in these threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688772
I guess a better way to say it would be 「ＡたらＡたで」 means that A happening makes the outcome different from what you expected it to be before A happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688390
日本語文型辞典 has a good explanation of this pattern

[Anonymous No.]

>>16685599
6000 something, seems semi-accurate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688478
Core 2k's examples are hopelessly inadequate, which is why you should make your own cards that give you proper context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688310
its okay this is just the autism containment thread the real djt is in int now 爆笑

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688937
>日本語文型辞典
whats this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689082
or you could download the J-E epwing dictionary from the CoR, install it to rikaisama and have all that ready-made for you when you do a real-time import

[Anonymous No.]

where do i go now that wilsonjj.me/jptv/ doesnt work anymore?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682635
エロゲとフラッシュカードの遊びだけならリアルニンジャズになかなか追いつけない

現実を無視するなよ

[Anonymous No.]

しっとりしている袋ドーナツは
冷凍するとサクサクになるぞ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689082
Can you recommend a good japanese - english dictionary?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689273
No such thing. Use J-J.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689204

[Anonymous No.]

If you need something easy to read try hentai manga. It has very retarded levels of dialogue.

And if you need further practice try translating an entire raw porn manga to English.

And then sharing it online so others can review your translation.

Bondage hentai is specially easy to read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689370
Fuck off EOP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689377
本気で言ったのに…

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689386
真面目は馬鹿

[Anonymous No.]

Any multiplayer games full of talkative japanese players? Or are they just as silent as western players?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689392
Grow up and pick up a book.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689394
grow up and stop posting

[Anonymous No.]

日本語は俺に赤いピルしてください

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689273
jisho dot org

[Anonymous No.]

Is the "mind palace" method any good for learning Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

What does ブッサー and キモダン mean?
>いいんです、どーせブッサーなんです。大自然の一部なんです。キモダンなんです

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688638
VNs by Masada or Romeo

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689751
No, stop looking for shortcuts and start studying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689114
I think it's in cornucopia.
Here's how it looks like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689751
>"mind palace"
/x/ tier bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689776
ブッサー = ブサイク = 不細工
キモダン = キモイダンシ = 気持ち悪い男子

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689833
ありがとうございます

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689835
*有難う御座います if you're trying to express true gratitude. ありがとうございます is more like a pleasantry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689841
蟻が問うございます

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689822
>>16689828
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4290488/How-super-sized-memory-40-days.html

Well, some say it's pretty good, but I'm not sure it'd work when you have to remember the kanji+the word itself+what it means at the same time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689841
お前バカだな

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689828
My tulpa disagrees with you

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689835
どういたしまして

[Anonymous No.]

Notice how this thread has already begun to have the off-topic chatroom atmosphere of the previous /a/ thread? Six more months at most before mods ban /djt/ from /jp/ as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689884
Ok, now go back to /int/

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689884
Not really. Perhaps you could be more specific? I would be glad if it happens though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689827
the link is dead btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689956
I can upload it if no one else volunteers. (my connection is pretty shit, though, so if anyone else would like to do it, be my guest)

[Anonymous No.]

Can anyone help me with getting Japanese input set up on Xubuntu 16.10?

I followed the instructions here:
http://www.localizingjapan.com/blog/2014/05/25/japanese-input-on-ubuntu-linux-14-04-lts-trusty-tahr/

But IBus isn't showing up as an option for "Keyboard input method system" in the "Language Support" window.

There's also no "Text Entry" settings menu in sight...

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690178
does googles ime not have a linux variant

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690200
Not as far as I know. There is Mozc which is based on the Google IME and that was actually installed on my system when I installed Japanese language support, but Mozc isn't showing up as an option there either...

[Anonymous No.]

Why is casual speech so infuriating?

>てててててて

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690178
>>16690209
Okay, sorted.

For those in the catalog who might be reading this and having the same problem, the issue was that (for some retarded reason) Xubuntu installed Mozc but didn't install the IBus module for it.

Solution:
>open terminal
>sudo apt-get install ibus-mozc
>settings > language support > select IBus under Keyboard input method system
>log out (I rebooted to be safe) and then log back in again

You'll notice that there's still no Text Entry option in the settings window, so instead you want to right click the "EN" icon which should now have appeared on your panel (or taskbar, in Windows terminology), go to the Input Method tab and add in both your native keyboard (mine got changed from English UK to English US) and Mozc (you'll find it under Japanese).

To switch between your native keyboard layout and Mozc, it's SUPER (i.e. the WIN key) + SPACE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690270
pro-drop language
just like your childhood remember of course you dont remember

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690270
That's part of what makes Japanese beautiful. The casual language leaves so much unsaid, while the formal language says so much that doesn't really mean anything.

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJwRbwGo4Ow

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690292
てってってー
てってっててー
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Pa5ZHF3Eo

[Anonymous No.]

日本語っていうのは醜い言語だと思うけど

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690858
お前っていう者は醜男だと思うけど

[Anonymous No.]

おはようおにいちゃん

どうろのまんなかを

おうだんしている

カメをみずべに戻したよ

もうすこしでひかれるところだった

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690877
本当はイケメンですがそれは関係ないわね

まあまあ突っ込みだけどそれも関係ない

更に漢字は自動車事故みたいなものである

その代わりにこれ見てみろ

youtu.be/A5FHHfSSVpM

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690893
助けなくても
車の人たちは止まるはず

[Anonymous No.]

Whats the equivalent of the phrase "how do you say...? in Japanese?
Do you just addとは何?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690942
Please delete the 3DPD
Also just search it up

[Anonymous No.]

チンコが口から抜ける方法は何でしょう

苦しい

[Anonymous No.]

>>16690935
ねことかたぬきとか

のらは、せんべいになってるよ

かわいそう

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691027
>たぬき

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone else applying for JLPT in London today?

[Anonymous No.]

I've installed some dictionaries but Rikaisama doesn't see them. Rikaichan works fine. Am I doing something wrong?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691241
かんちがいしないでよね

たべもののせんべいじゃないよ

動物が自動車に轢かれて埋葬されてない様を

「せんべいになる」っていうんだよ

ほうげんかもしれないけど

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691331
Rikaisama doesn't work with 55, 52 is OK.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691241
>>16691345
それから

おふとんとか

ざぶとんが

ぺったんこになることも

せんべいになるっていうよ

がんばれおにいちゃん

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691345
>>16691460
よかったら、たぬき味のせんべいを作るよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691460
イモウトちゃんって
ペタンコよね

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691489
へこめ

[Anonymous No.]

Guys, can I go from JLPT N4-N3 in time for July?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691598
If you put in the effort, of course. It shouldn't be that big of a step.

[Anonymous No.]

I've struggling with this grammar: https://djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#よう(2)
I think he's talking about the volitional form, but then he gives an example of 書けよう, which I can't find anywhere else. As far as I know the volitional form of 書く is 書こう . Is this a mistake or an alternative form? Or is it something completely different?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691792
That's the potential form. Install rikai.

[Anonymous No.]

>融解
>fusion
Doesn't fusion mean when something comes together? The J-J meaning of it is actually the opposite, dissolving/melting. I guess it's just edict being bad like usual.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691870
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%9E%8D%E8%A7%A3?oldid=39287773
the gif is quite telling for sure

[Anonymous No.]

誰かの若い燕になりたいんです

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691792
Replying to myself for additional information.

According to this site http://www.epochrypha.com/japanese/materials/verbs/Verb.aspx?rule=volitional

>Although these volitional forms were once used presumptively (i.e. with a meaning of "probably [does]"), the use of what's called the volitional here is outmoded as a presumptive in modern Japanese. For that meaning, use the presumptive form and past presumptive form.

So it seems that it was indeed the volitional, just an older use of the form. But the conjugation 書けよう is still unclear to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691897
寂しいのか？

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone know any good J-J dictionary app for android?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691993
とても　(´；ω；｀)

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691917
Are you actually retarded? 書けよう ＝ 書けるだろう.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691917
Also, stop using dumb web resources. This shit is in DOJG.

[Anonymous No.]

>というよりも、そんな気分にはなれなかった。
Does this mean "Or rather, I couldn't get into that mood"?

[Anonymous No.]

居ようがどうしようが

This is similar to that "whether or not" construction, but the どうしよう confuses me a bit here / I can't make a coherent sentence. "Whether it exists or does something?" isn't correct I'm sure

Used like
恋人が居ようがどうしようが、私には彼しかいなかったのだ。

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone help me with the following?

プロデューサーが女だってのとディレクターがバカだってのでFAらしいねドル箱タイトル潰したんだから業界では生きられないだろうな

Something about the product failing due to having a female producer and an idiot for a director causing it to flop in the current industry. What the fuck is a "dollar box title"? Is that the equivalent of "triple AAA title"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692474
>triple AAA title
Kill me

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689082
>how to take years to learn a language 101

[Anonymous No.]

>>16687825
Futaba and 2channel.

Not that it matters, since you aren't actually learning Japanese, but are simply shitposting here while you put off adding 5 new words to your 1% complete 6k anki deck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692474
ドル箱 is a cash cow

So they fucked up a cash cow franchise I suppose

[Anonymous No.]

>>16688654
Why not do this only for common kanji that look alike? There aren't THAT many kanji that are both in common use and of which you can say that their "shape is similar".

I mean the entire idea of kanji is that the reader can see the shape at a glance and then now what is being said, native readers don't disect every kanji down to its very last stroke to figure out what is being said.

Combine this with context, idioms and colloquialisms (the latter two you learn via exposure to the language) and there really is no need to remember the exact stroke order of every kanji out there.

That all being said learning kanji is still necessary and still time consuming, but then learning any language is time consuming. I am sure azns hate learning shit like "through tough though thought thorough " just as much as we hate learning kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

Kino is growing up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692496
At least you'll learn it thoroughly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692672
>キノの旅XX
Can't wait for キノの旅XXX

[Anonymous No.]

>廃
>ネットにおいて使われることの多い、「廃人」を省略した語。モノの名称に付けられることで、廃人になるほどそのモノに執着している人という意味をもつ。例えばネットに対してなら「ネト廃」「ネット廃」などと呼ばれ、ソーシャルゲームへの課金に対してなら「廃課金者」などと言われる。同じく強い中毒を表す「厨」よりも、「廃」は日常生活に支障をきたしているという意味合いが強い。
なるほど

[Anonymous No.]

>>16689968
pls respond

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692875
It's been 18 hours, I guess no one else wants to do it after all. I'm uploading it, should take about 30 minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692315
うん

>>16692430
どうしようが = or whatever かなぁ？
"恋人がいようがいまいが"と ほとんど おなじ いみだと おもう

[Anonymous No.]

>>16682635
>>16692875
日本語文型辞典
https://mega.nz/#!rQhWRRbT!zlorxzseOkEbb27sPGRSrwt9FqURIZxM0vjHm5gXk_M

[Anonymous No.]

>>16692908
>かな
>とおもう
ってなんなんだ、こりゃ
確信はないとなんの意味もない

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693055
How or why do people use pdf files? not being able to ctrl+f search makes it nigh useless... Where is the example >>16688937 mentioned

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693055
thabks m8

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693072
It's sorted alphabetically.

[Anonymous No.]

Just to confirm
>そして今、私はずるさのつけを払おうとしていた。
is "And now I'm in the process of paying for my sins" and not "tried to pay for them" right? Volitional still throws me off a bit and I don't think the latter makes sense

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693185
Being in the act of attempting something can be interpreted as "trying to do something" as well as "being in the process of doing something", which is what's going on here.
In Japanese it can go either way and you won't know without further context. If it were a failed attempt it'd be followed by 「、がー」 or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693311
Yeah but "trying" somewhat implies oneself set out to do so, whereas "in the process of" can be when one is cornered in a bad situation and are only doing it because of that, for example. Which is where the sentence comes from. I get what you're saying though, thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693072
>pdf
>no ctrl f
?

If you are talking about it beingnot treating the document as text, you realize you can have it recognize the text for you? After which you can use ctrl f anyway. This comes in handy for shit like scanning documents and then making them searchable too.

[Anonymous No.]

おはようおにいちゃん

きょうはじしんのひだよ

てをとりあって

このままゆこう

あいするひとよ

[Anonymous No.]

もしこのポストを

みたら

１万８０００柱の

ぎせいしゃを

わすれないで

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693681
>みたら
why

[Anonymous No.]

>外国語を習うときに、読解力は一番大事なところだと思って会話力を無視にしてしまう人が多いので、その二つそれぞれ詳しく説明する必要がよくあると思います。
Is this sentence correct/natural?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694002
What are you trying to say with
>その二つそれぞれ詳しく説明する必要がよくあると思います。
?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694030
"It's often important to explain each one of those two"
Like, explaining the importance of each one of them

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694041
What about something like その二つを区別して解読する必要が

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694041
What about something like その二つを区別して解説する必要が

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694002
Yeah, but I would add a を after それぞれ.

>>16694140
That has a different meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694140
Maybe that would've worked better, but it's not like it matters too much now anyway, since I wrote that in a feedback questionnaire of a lecture I attended at uni and I've handed it in already.
I just wanted to know how bad my grammar was and if I should feel ashamed about myself and my Japanese skills.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694152
>majoring japanese
Why do so many people do this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694151
Oh, is that it? That's a relief desu. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694158
Because

[Anonymous No.]

Is it worth reading through "The Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course"?
I would only read it when I have nothing to do at work cause I want to focus on anki and reading at home but do you think it's worth it?

I think RTK is a waste of time but KKLC seems like it really helps at least for complex kanji doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694166
If you're having trouble identifying complex kanji or telling similar kanji apart, yeah, it would help.

[Anonymous No.]

I've been tasked with finding a 2-kanji compound ending in く that describes the reason for the Japanese work ethic. Any ideas?

[Anonymous No.]

>心強い
>voice file says it as "しんきょう"
God damnit yuichi, that's not even a word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694194
家族

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694194
家畜

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694207
>cattle
Nice

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694207
畜生

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694194
愚弱

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694194
切腹

[Anonymous No.]

How would you translate "ギリィ" as an onomatopoeia?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694250
You don't translate the onomatopoeia, you translate the sound made in the scene

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694207
社畜

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694278
SFX archive doesn't help. I went with "Grind"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694250
http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/browse/giri/

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a list of all katakana words out there? Like a frequency one?

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone know of a good resource that has Japanese text, english translation, and a step by step explanation of the translation?

Ideally the source material would actually be interesting and not sentences like 'Bob and Sally went to eat ramen'

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694651
The "Read Real Japanese" books are fairly good for that sort of thing. They contain essays and short stories from Japanese authors; one page has the original Japanese text and the facing page has explanations of some of the grammar points. It doesn't have the full English translation, but there should be enough for you to understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694658

thanks, brah

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694482
Kinda shady since they write in katakana whenever they feel like. Dame, suki, maji... not loanwords, but often katakaned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694651
>>16694658
I don't remember the titles, but there are other similar books in the CoR, I think some of them come with an audiobook too.

[Anonymous No.]

Is it bad to use すぎる for positive actions?

For example:
>来週ゲームをしすぎるつもりです

I guess I'm trying to say I want to express that I want to do an excessive amount of something but with a positive connotation/outcome that I desire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694889
I don't believe it can be used for positive AND intentional things, or at least I don't recall seeing it used in that manner. Either way, I think まくる sounds more natural for what you're trying to say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694727
Yeah but those could then be taken out.

[Anonymous No.]

Does anyone know if the Anki Hiragana deck is good?

The one listed here https://djtguide.neocities.org/resource%20guide.html#Kana points to https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/722065315 and the comments there say that the deck has mistakes etc.

Basically, can anyone here verify if the deck has mistakes like the comments say it does?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694953
The comments only mention fonts and audio, so yeah, it seems there aren't any actual mistakes. I would suggest this over Anki for learning kana, though: https://djtguide.neocities.org/kana/index.html

[Anonymous No.]

What was the first thing you read all the way through (or up to its most recent release if it was something ongoing)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
惡の華

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
this, which is going to be quite a few people in here i think

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694906
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694968
The only problem with that is I barely have free time to do it. I already use Anki for other stuff so it's easier for me to do it while travelling on a bus or something.

By the way, is the DJT Kana mobile-compatible?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694968
Also the comments do mention some of the graphics not working which if true, is a big issue

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695002
It's probably easier to download a stroke order chart separately than fix the deck, in that case. Just google "kana stroke order" or something and save it to your phone/tablet.

[Anonymous No.]

ここにいる外人は全員馬鹿ｗｗｗ
人生の貴重な時間を日本語の勉強なんかについやしてんじゃねーよｗｗｗ
そんな暇あるんだったら、就職して働いて、彼女作って結婚して子供作って、親孝行しろよｗｗｗ

[Anonymous No.]

>万年筆
>まんねんひつ

The transition ん -> ひ is giving me a great amount of trouble. I can't pronounce it the way it looks like it should be, and the speaker in Core is saying something more like "まんねんいしつ"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695126
Make a vague 'n' sound with the back of your tongue touching the roof of your mouth - don't raise the tip of your tongue. It's almost like you're going to say "ng" but you don't go all the way to the "g".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
Joshiraku

[Anonymous No.]

can someone tell what brand the box is? thanks in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-sh3EhxOko

[Anonymous No.]

Why does Anki keep doing this to me lately?

I have it set so that new cards should be interspersed with my reviews, but it keeps holding back just under half of them right until the very end. As you can see in pic related. today there were still 5 new cards being held back by the time I'd seen all my review cards.

It keeps happening that I get the last 7 or so cards when I reach the point that I have only 10 or so review cards left to see.

[op No.]

>>16695217
i got タク & フイシト
or taku and fisuto

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695217
This is not a translation/transcription request thread, but it's this: https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%90%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E8%A3%BD%E8%96%AC-%E9%BB%92%E3%81%84%E5%B8%83%E3%83%90%E3%83%B3-%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%82%B5%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BA-16%E6%9E%9A%E5%85%A5/dp/B00FX4EAK4 (sorry for the retarded-looking link.)

>>16695222
Something to do with the "learn ahead limit" setting, maybe? I remember experiencing this with Core6k where sometimes I would have to wait a few minutes until Anki let me do the last 2 or 3 reviews, but I never looked into it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695222
>>16695234
Sorry, I misread your post. Please disregard.

[op No.]

>>16695234
ah, i didn't know that was a seperate thing but an enormous thanks for that anyways

[Anonymous No.]

Is this the standard encoding for furigana? So a chuuni writer who wants to abuse furigana readings all the time has to write it out like this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695222
I too wonder about that. With 250 reviews to be done, it's annoying to get to the point where there are only 5~10 left but over 3 cards still unseen.

Maybe it has to do with how much you're failing cards in a row, rather than your overall retention, and the program decides to hold the unseen cards a bit longer so you may focus on missed cards or something.

In this case failing 20 cards at the beginning and then acing the rest would not be a problem, but missing 1 card every 3 reviews could skew the unseen cards to the end of the session.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693055
本当に感謝します。

[Anonymous No.]

>>16693055
>The provided key is invalid. Please check that the key is correct or ask the creator of the link again.

can you upload it again, pls?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695723
Not him, but the link works for me.

Try hard-refreshing the page or opening it in a different browser.

[Anonymous No.]

ほんの辞書ってたかいよね

とくににほんごはたかいとおもうよ

国語・漢和・古語の三冊そろえれば

しばらくおいしいごはんがたべられないほどの出費だよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
Hoshi no Samidare
Only what, a hundred chapters or thereabout to it? Pretty good manga for true upper-beginners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695728

Works with IE, thanks.

btw there are so many broken links in Cornucopia of Resources.

https://djtguide.neocities.org/cor.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>16695750
You mean under the "dead links" tab?

Yeah, one guy was responsible for uploading a lot of the content there, and one day he just deleted all his uploads out of butthurt. I can't remember exactly what made him do it, but whatever the case, either nobody else is willing to upload what he removed or nobody else actually has what he removed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
Dies Irae
I'm the guy that destroys a work's experience for himself just so he can say it's what he read first. Only took me till the end of the Kasumi route to catch up to Masada's writing, dude taught me Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

おしえておにいちゃん

baitってだいたい

わるいいみでつかわれるの？

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone here explain when to use "ga" en when "wa" (topic vs subject participle). All resources I find on either tell you to "just deal with it" or try to give an explanation followed by a "but remember this doesn't really explain it!". I understand fully that the subject marker is not the equivalent of the grammatical clause as used in western languages. In fact this is exactly why it is giving me a headache, neither the topic nor subject (when talking about these two participles) seem to have a grammatical definition. They seem to be participles to convey some vague idea about certain elements in the sentence.

I have reached a point no where I get it right 90% of the time simply by "feeling" and having heard enough examples to go by, however I don't UNDERSTAND it. If asked by someone why I chose wa over ga (or vice versa) I wouldn't be able to tell them most of the time, and if I were able to tell them, my explanation would vary wildly depending on the sentence I just made.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694980
A nip newspaper, I still have it, with my scribbling and notes drawn all over it. Boy did that take long, but it was satisfying getting there in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696140
Consider the formation "方がいい" and what it might mean if you were to say "方はいい" instead. Also consider why people say "何が？" but not "何は？"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696140
People whose job is literally to teach people Japanese can't explain the difference adequately, so now you're turning to a bunch of neets on an imageboard?

Bad idea, captain.

If there were a perfect explanation it'd be the first thing you find when googling for it; there simply is none. Hell even natives are inconsistent with using which in certain phrases.
You might be right in thinking that for 100% proficiency in using the correct particle you'll need to actually understand all the rules that go into it, but the way Japanese developed as a language makes it impossible to pinpoint those rules. Just keep practicing.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Windows 10 IME good enough or Google IME is better?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696221
Google's is better

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696185
「が」をつかってね

だいたい「が」で

なんとかなるんじゃないかなあとおもうよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696222
thanks

[Anonymous No.]

I think perhaps the confusion with は and が comes about because Japanese don't actually state the subject very often. In English we keep stating the subject over and over for every little thing so we think nothing of it, so we're not used to inferring some special reason as to why it was specifically identified.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696225
あ、こっちも同じ
どっちの方が正しいか知らないそして言い換えが思いつけないとき、「が」を使ってる

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696185
I don't think I have ever come across 方はいい so I don't use it, I fill in が. Same for the 何が vs 何は. I read/listen, I see/hear one but never the other, so it must evidently be "wrong" and I never use it.

I however couldn't tell you why one is wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696195
Well honestly this kind of answer suits me fine as well. Basically what I really wanted to know is if the rules are simply "fucking vague" even in Japanese, or if it becomes "fucking vague" when anglo textbooks try to force the anglo grammar and direct translations on it.

The former would simply mean it is a case of practice and surrounding yourself with the language (what I am currently doing anway). The latter however would mean I could have it explained to me, just not by anglos in anglo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696248
The English grammatical clause which we call the "subject" has some overlap with the subject marker "ga/が" but they are not equivalent. There are times when you use the subject marker "ga/が" without it being linked to the grammatical clause as we know it in English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696140
With "wa" you want people to pay attention to what goes after "wa", while with "ga" you want them to pay attention to the subject itself, no?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696254
「が」はショットガン

「は」はマシンガンだよ

「が」のほうが当たりやすいよ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696266
Yeah, it's just how Japanese is, although you're right with most textbooks tiptoeing around it. People often say that Japanese doesn't have a lot of rules, however that's not because it doesn't have complicated grammar but rather because people just aren't able to put up a consistent rule framework for its grammar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696271
Grammatical UNIT rather than "clause"*

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696274
これは言い得て妙というやつですね、いい比喩だ

[Anonymous No.]

でも「を」のかわりに「が」をつかうと

おかしなことになるからをつけてね

>カレーをたべた

>カレーがたべた

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696297
本当だ、「いもうとが犯したい」のはちょっと微妙

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696272
>私の名前は匿名です
>Watashi no namae wa tokumei desu
>My name is anonymous

Topic marker here indicates that "watashi no namae" (my name) is the topic. Speaking of this topic I, the speaker, indicate that it is "anonymous". More literally the translation would be:

>"Speaking of my name, it is anonymous"

However if someone were to ask the question:

> "Who's name is anonymous?"

I couldn't answer with

>私の名前は匿名です
>Watashi no namae wa tokumei desu

Instead it would be

私の名前が匿名です
>Watashi no namae GA tokumei desu
>My name is anonymous

In English the translation is the exact same, but in Japanese you have to specify that you aren't simply talking about what your name happens to be, in this scenario (where some asks the question "who's name is anonymous?") you want to specify that YOUR name is anonymous, you have to specify that the name "anonymous" is directly linked to "my name".

You could leave out the topic+topic marker in the first example:

>What is your name?
>Anonymous
Makes perfect sense

You can not leave out the subject+subject marker in the latter example:

>Who's name is anonymous?
>Anonymous
???. No, you need the bit where you indicate "My name is anonymous" for it to make sense.

As you can see from the above the before/after "rule" doesn't really apply, especially not once shit gets more complicated. I do however find that the above does show the IDEA of what the two participles usually convey.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696312
ロリ攻め

ありだとおもいます

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696334
直接言わない限り大丈夫です。

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696313
Are you retarded, anon? Your example confirms what anon said about before/after focus.

>>16696195
>People whose job is literally to teach people Japanese
How do you figuratively teach someone Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696396
Nice try, but that'd only make sense if I said "is to literally teach people Japanese."
Step it up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696414
Fine, fine. But how do you have a job that is figuratively to teach someone Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

Can't we all just agree that Japanese is a retarded language with retarded writing system, retarded grammar and retarded way of thinking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696458
Nah, it's beautiful and I enjoy it much more than English and my mother language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16691870
If you put two things together and they melt/dissolve they become one?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696429
Ah, you see, the literally actually modifies the "is" in my sentence, so an example of someone whose job is figuratively to teach someone Japanese would be DJT.
One could rephrase my original sentence without change in meaning and say "Teaching people Japanese is literally their job." Likewise the DJT example would turn into "Teaching people Japanese is figuratively DJT's job"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696396
>Are you retarded, anon? Your example confirms what anon said about before/after focus.

No, not at all, in both cases the focus is on "my name", it is simply that in the first example I give the topic is announced by the question "what is your name?"

>お名前は何ですか
>Onamae wa nandesuka
>What is your name?
>lit. "name what is?"

As you can see the person asking this question announces "your name" as the topic (お名前は -> Onamae wa -> "wa" is the topic marker) . As you aren't changing the topic in your answer there is no strict need to repeat it, the context is enough (although if you did repeat it there would be nothing wrong with that per se). It has nothing to do with "the focus being on what comes after".

Note for instance that in that initial question (お名前は何ですか / Onamae wa nandesuka) "wa" isn't focused on what comes after. In fact in this case you can't even remove the topic+topic marker that come BEFORE it because without them nobody would now what you are talking about. You can't simply start the conversation with "何ですか / nandesuka" and expect the other person to telepathically know what you are talking about. Quite often if the topic marker is the appropriate choice then you could also omit it, but not always (as in this example). This is why I said that my post exemplifies the ideas of the participles rather than being rules of any sort.

However if you if you wish to believe that that is wrong and that there is a strict before/after structure to those two participles then be my guest. I really don't care if you willingly want to be shit at the language you are trying to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696493
I don't think you understand what figuratively means, but nice acrobatics.

>>16696458
The retard of the language is part of its charm; I think if it was analytical like Mandarin, for instance, I wouldn't be so motivated to keep going.
It pisses me off at times when I'm reading manga and the punctuation marks are arbitrarily spread and most are inferred, but I can survive it.
It's pretty much like reading written English on the Internet and having to piece shit together going by context. While English is in the process of having its grammar crippled by the Internet, Japs have done away with the need for it long ago. That's how they manage to go wild on onomatopoeias, interjections and general girly speech. Moe girls would sound like cavemen in English: Me cute, me love precious friends!

>>16696515
I was not disagreeing with your point, but your examples on the previous post didn't prove what you were trying to say. The first sentence had focus on "Anonymous" and the second sentence had focus on "Mine".
The example you gave now, though, shows an exception that disproves what anon said about before/after.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696537
DJT's job on /jp/ is to teach people Japanese. "They" aren't being paid to, so it's not literally their job.
While "figuratively" was actually correct usage of the word there, it doesn't really matter if you want to disagree on that point. It's not literally their job, unlike people who write Japanese textbooks professionally; that's what you nitpicked on originally because of a misunderstanding on how adverbs work in English. Your first reply where you put figuratively in the wrong spot is proof of that.

No acrobatics, just explaining how adverbs work since you didn't understand my sentence's meaning when I used one after the predicate instead of before it (both of which are valid, just to reiterate).

And please don't reply unless you're planning to continue disagreeing with my use of "literally" in my original post, I'm not interested in any goal post moving.

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone tell me why this video is called "End of the road for eroge voice actress that looks like homo"
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28011990

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696537
>I was not disagreeing with your point, but your examples on the previous post didn't prove what you were trying to say. The first sentence had focus on "Anonymous" and the second sentence had focus on "Mine".
>The example you gave now, though, shows an exception that disproves what anon said about before/after.
Fair enough, but I still disagree with the first sentence being focused on "what comes after". I believe viewing it in the light of "what part of the sentence is it focused on" is the wrong approach to start with anyway. Better of viewing it in the light of what idea is trying to be conveyed rather than trying to dissect it like one might do with grammatical clauses in English sentences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696621
Newsflash: Homos not particularly popular anywhere on earth (save SanFran)

[Anonymous No.]

My friend is having problems using the rikai import function on his MacBook.

Everyone saves as is but he can't locate the folder in which the audio should be saved into. Does anyone know anything about it? I don't know shit about Macs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696579
>no pay, therefore figurative!
You are literally illiterate.

When I say the sun is smiling, a person is crumbling or you are performing acrobatics, that's figurative. Because none of these are happening in the realm of reality. They are metaphors based on physical actions.

Now, when I say a person on an electric wheelchair is walking, or someone is working for free, that is not figurative. The action is still the literal action you expect it to be: locomotion and doing tasks. Just not done the regular way.

Now literally kill yourself.

>>16696621
Fake and ホモ.

>>16696630
Yeah, seems we've reached an agreement. It's hard to rationalize things when new grammar points (with no equivalents) show up, you generally understand it intuitively, and there isn't much to articulate about it in a language that doesn't have it.
After Japanese I might try some language with cases for the sake of completion, I already have verbal conjugations and noun genders under my belt. Am I missing anything? Maybe tones, although they're not exactly grammatical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696713
>Am I missing anything?
Apparently Finnish has a bunch of cases unique to their language. That would be honestly the last language I would want to learn and I am glad so few people speak it that there is no real benefit to learning it. Mandarin is supposed to be easy compared to Finnish, or so I have been told.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a problem writing the kana below the kanji? because the word 'zeri' I know what it means but with the kanji alone I can't remember the word...

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696829
Of course there is a problem, are you retarded? The point is you repeat it often enough until you know what it means, both the reading and meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>「なんっか最近再生数がいまいち伸びないんだよな……。この前俺一人で作った動画のタグにも『カメラ仕事しろ』とか『アングルだいたいあってない』とか書かれるし……」
What does "再生数がいまいち伸びない" mean in this video context?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696829
That's supposed to be zehi.

[Anonymous No.]

>tfw reading hentai to improve Jap as well as for fapping purposes
>Get so into the reading process that my boner doesn't last because I'm too busy reading the dialogue with my fucking Kindergarten level of understanding

So this is what pain feels like huh?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696829
For starters that is "zehi" not "zeri" ( ぜひ ) unless that is some weird dialect I am unaware of.

In this specific case using kana won't "make a big difference" because it doesn't have any homonyms (that I am aware of). So people will always read it with the meaning "by all means" or "certainly" or something along those lines. However most words do have homonyms so without the kanji to distinguish one from the other, all you would have to go by is context, and sometimes that isn't enough or leads to unnecessary confusion.

Furthermore not using kanji turns sentences into an absolute mess, just one large string of kana with no way to distinguish between one word and the next. Itwouldbelikemewritinglikethisinenglishitwouldbecompletelyretardedandtakepeoplefartoolongtodecipher.

Last but certainly not least kanji are very useful for grouping words and memorizing them. Some examples:

Taberu (たべる) and Shokuhin (しょくひん), look nor sound nothing alike right? Yet one means "to eat" and the other means "food/foodstuff", so the words are related.
Now look at the kanji used the words:
>食べる = Taberu (たべる)
>食品 = Shokuhin (しょくひん)
Tada, they share the same root, now it is easy to remember, not odd since 食 (しょく / shoku) is the word for "meal". This relation would completely pass you by if you didn't learn kanji.

Other words that use the kanji 食?

dining table
table salt
groceries
appetite
consume

Seeing a pattern here? Even its more "obscure" uses such as in the word for "to defeat" makes sense if you consider it in the sense of "devouring an enemy".

All this lost to you because instead of learning those words with the associated kanji 食 you decided to learn them in kana.

Learn kanji, they are a godsend, not a foe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696950
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

Is the only solution to this shit literally just to flick though all the permutations in your head and pick whichever one seems the least ridiculous?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697110
Those are confusing because they're isolated textbook sentences. It's easier when you have actual context.

[Anonymous No.]

lower right, papa yotsuba is saying something along the lines of 'so daro', I know what daro means but what is 'so' in this sentence?

and what are long vertical lines in mangas? they dont really follow the same rules as the small tsu.

is papa saying Sooooooo......darooooo......?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697158
そうだろう
"that's right"
>and what are long vertical lines in mangas?
Long vowels. とーちゃん = とうちゃん (父ちゃん)

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697164
so when its a long vowel its always with a vertical line and always ends with 'う'?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697158
If you don't even know そう you are going to struggle with yotsuba. I would definitely get the reading pack, otherwise you are going to get stuck on a lot of slurred words which you can't look up and aren't experienced enough to guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697174
>always with a vertical line
No, that's mostly a manga thing.
>always ends with 'う'?
No, it depends on the word.

Re-read Tae Kim's explanation about long vowels. http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/hiragana

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697184
>>16697185

Thanks anons, but its also not in the reading pack and I seem to only find the meaning of そう when its attached to the end instead of the beginning of the sentece.

thanks friends!

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697190
lastly, so tochan is saying

"thats right, theres its also full of shops"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697205
no theres*

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697129
It's mainly this "indirect passive" that I just stumbled across that is confusing me. Like this sentence which I just came across right now:

にこりと微笑まれて、戸惑ってしまう。

Obviously it's passive, but is it closer to "being smiled at"(which doesn't seem to fit with the concept of "passive", since a smile is something that you do to yourself), or is it more like "[person] smiles and it bothers or affects me in some involuntary way"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697174
>>16697185
どうぞよろしくよろしくしまう

しまう

しまうー

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697226
>but is it closer to "being smiled at"(which doesn't seem to fit with the concept of "passive", since a smile is something that you do to yourself),
I don't even know what you're saying here. Other people can smile at you just like they can shout or kick you. Not sure why you think smiling is special somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16694166
Are there some other anons that have experience with this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697238
They can smile at you but they can't "smile" you. 微笑む is intransitive, you can't [[person]を微笑む」, so how how's it supposed to work as a direct passive? Am I supposed to just make something up that seems to fit the situation, or is there some convention to follow for each intransitive verb?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697294
I'm not sure I get you.
"にこりと微笑まれて" isn't "being smiled" but "being smiled at". You can think of passive like "I had x happen to me" -> "I had smile happen to me".

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697294
You can smile *at* something/someone.
誰かが俺に微笑んだ = 俺は微笑まれた

[Anonymous No.]

ｄｊｔの皆さんがペラペラになっていく過程を見ながら、その無力さが死ぬまで残るなんて最高の皮肉だわ

[Anonymous No.]

Some of these are really confusing.

[Anonymous No.]

is there a rikaisama for chrome with anki import?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697717
Yomichan does it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697591
Check DoJG
>Someone or something is in some state he or it was in some time ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697591
It's a happy little tree that has "yet" to grow into a beautiful adult.

[Anonymous No.]

kawaii

[Anonymous No.]

what connotations does あなた carry

[Anonymous No.]

Beginner here, I just had an idea. Does it make sense to get a better grasp on reading things by remembering the Kanji for names I know? Like I know all Touhou character's names so if I remember their Kanji I should know at least one reading of that Kanji right?

[Anonymous No.]

using anki 6k
slow as fuck
start looking up the kanji of all the words that come up and studying their radicals, pictography and origins
retention rate skyrockets

I am ashamed of my stupidity of not doing this earlier, the study of kanji and their origins is actually pretty fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698161
People shitted on me the other day when I said you should combine vocabulary with Kanji studying. DJT unanimously agreed I didn't know what I was talking about even though this is exactly what I observed and what people all over report. Sometimes I feel this place just wants to be contrarian even if it means giving bad advice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698185
That's because it's wrong and you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698158
Names are basically their own thing and don't necessarily adhere to "normal" readings. Example: 八雲紫 (Yakumo Yukari): the "Yukari" here is the kanji for purple, which is normally read as むらさき or し. The reading ゆかり is only used for names. There are also several kanji which you will see very commonly in names but hardly ever in words. This is not always the case: 博麗霊夢 (Hakurei Reimu) is a name with regular readings. But generally speaking, I think names are something you should leave for when you already have a decent grasp on the language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698221
I don't feel that way but thank you for all these sensible and well thought out arguments, I consider it valuable input.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698185
Who is this DJT you speak of? Or are you just interpreting the opinions of a vocal group as consensus?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698235
I see, thanks. I just figured out the Kanji for Tenshi (天子) by myself without looking it up and got kind of thrilled but I guess it was a bit silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698245
My mistake. Sorry about that, sometimes I just type things without considering the implications too hard. I'm aware we're all individuals with different experiences and opinions here, I suppose it's good to remind yourself of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698185
Well I just found that once I started learning the radicals I was "seeing them everywhere" and made me grasp their roots and shared origins/relations better.

Also small things like the kanji for winter containing the radical for ice, or spring simply being the radical for sun with the icon for "higher" drawn over it. Rather than having to remember every single kanji as a single standalone character I started understanding the patterns.

I mean, I guess sitting down and starting and just cramming all the radicals and what kanji you can create with them along with all their readings and various meanings would be retarded if only for the sheer scope compared to its usefulness. However learning vocab and then simply looking up the kanji you are seeing is hardly time consuming yet gives me a far better grasp of the meaning of the kanji.

Any time lost in looking up the kanji is easily gained by reducing the amount of repetitions I need per word. I have EASILY halved the amount of lapses I have by simply checking up on the kanji.

Like I said, I was pretty annoyed with myself at not having done this earlier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698235
tfw you will never have a name that can be explained with its alternate reading instead having a shitty gaijin name you have to spell out in katakana sounding nothing like your name in your native tongue and instead just like shit.

>Williiam
>ウィリアム
retarded
>Bill
>ビル
Still retarded, besides that I hate being called Bill in English already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698268
>However learning vocab and then simply looking up the kanji you are seeing is hardly time consuming yet gives me a far better grasp of the meaning of the kanji.
Excellent use of kanji study

> I guess sitting down and starting and just cramming all the radicals and what kanji you can create with them along with all their readings and various meanings would be retarded if only for the sheer scope compared to its usefulness.
Extremely bad use of kanji study

The only thing worse would be the "literally no kanji study" approach. This will invariably lead to, as you put it, "having to remember every singe kanji as a single standalone character", which is just making the entire process of learning the language ridiculously and unnecessarily hard because you fell for the 4chan meme of "kanji study is useless". It is the /jp/ equivalent of /fit/s GOMAD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698348
You can't learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698350
I know, you have to BECOME it, but that is a trade secret so shhh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698348
Radical study makes sense, but kanji study is plainly pointless. With the same effort it takes to learn the shape and "meaning" of a kanji you could almost as easily have learnt a word with that kanji in it. For just that tiny little bit of extra effort, you get something that you can actually read and use.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698250
Tenko*

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698579
i mean i would imagine all it leads to is having kanji look familiar to you while you read but then you dont even know how to read them so what was the fucken point

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698634
see>>16698268 and >>16696962

That is the point. Loose lone kanji are fucking meaningless and treating them as such will make your learning&retention rate terrible.

You think it is a coincidence that the words for summer, hot, warm, sun, day etc. all share the same radical? You learn the radical and you learn entire wordgroups, you treat all those words as seperate enteties and you will have to remember new kanji for summer, a new word for hot etc. and the retention becomes terrible because you aren't associating those words with their shared overarching idea/meaning.

Learning vocab without studying radicals is a sure fire way of getting frustrated at some point. Unless you have a photographic memory, then by all means just learn them as single unrelated words that have nothing to do with each other whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698634
>>16698579
>I want to learn vocab as silly little abstract scribbles instead of understanding the underlying concepts and ideas that turn those scribbles into something meaningful and versatile.

I wish all the "don't bother with kanji" crowd would leave, I can't even tell if you are trolling the new people entering the thread or are deadly serious about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698779
You are conflating kanji study with radical study.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698779
Who said that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698779
Lone kanji study guy has already been exposed as a complete beginner, as he admitted himself. The only people who don't do vocabulary study are frankly too retarded for it and desperately look for training wheels. There is no method that is more solid than mining words + reading if you're actually interested in learning Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698826
>Lone kanji study guy
Who? Who in this thread are you talking about? Or any previous thread in that matter? This is nothing but a shitty strawman, I can't help but feel you are talking about me (as I "exposed" myself as beginner) even though I have never advocated for lone Kanji studying, rather I vocally encouraged combining vocabulary with Kanji studying and I dare you to show me a post where I claimed otherwise unless you are talking about someone else, which I really don't think you are, in which case I apologize.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698876
Lone kanji study doesn't mean studying nothing but kanji. It means studying the kanji as a body separate from vocabulary, instead of (or as well as) learning them for each word you know as they appear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698982
So basically ignoring Kanji studies? I really can't tell if you're just trolling or what.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16698992
Lone kanji study is basically Heisig shit where you try to assign a "meaning" to each kanji instead of learning how said meaning is used in compounds.

[Anonymous No.]

This page of a manga got me thinking, what are the connotations of a Japanese man, maybe middle-aged, saying「あら」? I'd always wondered if it was expressly feminine speech, or if men too said it in an I guess cultured/educated, gentle way like the exclamative "Oh my" or "My" in English.

The manga being 恋は雨上がりのように, for those interested.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699069
So?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699077
"So" what? I'm not the guy you were talking to, just saying that you can study kanji without doing lone kanji study.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699083
I know and I agree with what you said. It is what I understood as "lone Kanji studying" and I don't believe I ever said anything that could give another impression which is why I'm surprised you replied to me. The other poster on the other hand thinks that the moment you step out of core and look at a Kanji's "meaning" or learn vocabulary by Kanji, you are an evil lone Kanji learning advocator and Satan will come down and curse you to never be able to learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699099
I replied because
>Lone kanji study doesn't mean studying nothing but kanji. It means studying the kanji as a body separate from vocabulary, instead of (or as well as) learning them for each word you know as they appear.
>So basically ignoring Kanji studies?
Seemed like you misunderstood his post. But yeah, maybe that guy misinterpreted your earlier posts.
Also, kanji is not a proper noun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699099
Looking up occasional kanji you have trouble with in vocab isn't a big deal. But explicitly saying that "kanji study is necessary" means you are very clearly doing a lot more than that, which is misleading and a waste of time. The extent "kanji study" should go to is occasionally when one in a dozen vocab maybe gives you a bit of trouble, you look at what it consists of for 5 seconds in jisho / look at other words sharing the kanji, and go back to reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699160
You know, there is something wrong with that approach and I do believe you have not fully understood what I propose but I do not care to elaborate anymore. Stick to your own methods and I'll stick to mine, I also realize that what I say doesn't hold much weight as I already admitted to being a relative beginner. I'll continue studying and when I'm done I will see where it has brought me but all my calculations and experiences so far point to success. Maybe I'll see you in one of these threads again advocating to ignore all Kanji studies and then I'll make sure to explain what exactly I have been doing but I am really tired debating this pointless nonsense now. It is time I could spend studying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699185
And the morale of the story is that beginners should shut the fuck up, not give advice and focus on themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16697294
Japanese does not have prepositional passives. There is no possible syntax equivalent to "I was smiled at". But in any natural language, there has to be a way to formulate a passive version of an intransitive verb with an indirect object. In japanese they just use the passive because fuck the rules.

[Anonymous No.]

Use anki 6k
Paste kanji of new word into https://app.kanjialive.com
Look at meaning, radical and the hint/drawing
Ignore the different readings and two dozen different examples
Never forget the word again
Manage to "guess" and remember new words using the same radicals/kanji a lot faster

Ya, I am going to keep incorporating this type of kanji study.

I would never for the life of me guessed the radical for "water", but know I know it I won't ever forget it, and every time I see it in a new word I know what general direction I should be thinking in. Same for all the other radicals I have learned by doing this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699317
>Use Anki 6k
Yeah you sound like someone who knows what he's talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699369
Keep being a miserable cunt procrastinating on 4chan with your "funny remarks" while I keep learning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699369
>I do 0 kanji study of any kind
You got memed kid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699414
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699416
The text I read between your lines. It is quite clearly there if you can read English properly ESL kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699422
>your
Who do you think you're "responding" to?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699425
anonymous

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699427
>>16699425
>>16699422
>>16699416
>>16699414
Simbalee ebin shitposting guys XD, well done, time spent wisely on page 10 :)

[Anonymous No.]

>stay up till 4 am
>do my anki reps
>go to sleep
>no anki reps for an entire day

Why didn't I do this earlier? So refreshing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699481
Who wrote that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699502
I did just now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699502
You are forcing yourself so hard I can't decide if you are an annoying newfag or simply annoying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699072
What's going on here? Is this slut trying to seduce her tenchou?

[Anonymous No.]

So I just read on a forum that Tae Kim's grammer guide is over simplified, and that I should use Imabi instead. What should I use? I started Tae Kim a few months ago, but just got back to it today, and was wondering if I should switch or what? Or should I use both and just cross check each other? Also, Imabi starts off teaching Romaji, so it kinda threw me off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699626
>What should I use?
DoJG series

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699626
Tae Kim is indeed oversimplified, but as a beginner, you'll want a simpler, more concise grammar guide over something like Imabi. After you finish Tae Kim you can start reading and consult DoJG and Imabi whenever needed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699378
さすが九州ｗ

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699626
I wouldn't say it is oversimplified, his goal was to be simple and concise. You follow the guide, you'll be able to understand and take part in most Japanese conversations and read pretty much anything and know what is going on (of course assuming your vocab is up to scratch as well). It was never intended as comprehensive guide to all the ins and outs of Japanese grammar. If you want to know and understand the nuances and why X was used instead of Y then DoJG is the way to go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16696140
Visualizing Japanese Grammar has a good explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699632
>>16699635
Awesome, thank you guys. I think I'll end up starting with Tae Kim, then move to DoJG then. Also how long should it take to finish Tae Kim you think? People were saying like a week last time, and I thought I was just super slow. It took me like almost 2 weeks to get through half of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699669
>You follow the guide, you'll be able to understand and take part in most Japanese conversations

lol no. Tae Kim lacks a lot of common grammar and a lot of his explanations are garbage. I didn't understand things like ように, てくる and ていく until I read the DoJG entries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699676
The sooner the better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699626
The problem is it's simplified in the wrong ways. It's still the least awful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699712
better than the homosexual's guide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699686
Tae Kim page 114 onwards explains it fine. Are the nuances and all the ins and outs explained? No. Is it enough for you to be able to understand it when hearing it/reading it? Yes.

DoJG is great as a reference book and to get an advanced understanding of concepts you have learned, but it is hardly a study book. At the end of the day it is quite appropriately named a dictionary. This coming from someone who owns hardcopies of all the DoJG books and loves using them to bits, I would never advise a beginner to just "go read DoJG" to learn Japanese anymore than I would advise anyone to "go read the Oxford Dictionary of colloquialisms" to learn English. I would advise them to buy the ODoC and to use it whenever they came across something they didn't know or understand, and that is how I would advise initially using DoJG as well. If you simply sit down and "read a chapter a day" you will have wished you had never even started the language after the end of the month (or you were blessed with autism).

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699759
But DoJG is not even comprehensive. If you use it every time you come across unknown grammar, you will exhaust it in like a year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699759
Mr. Kim? Is that you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699771
and that is bad why exactly? Do you wish to store away pages and keep them unread? Are pages unread by you a currency of sorts?

You either;
understand whatever you read.
don't understand whatever you read and find the answer in DoJG
don't understand whatever you read and can't find the answer in DoJG either at which point you find a new resource

Honestly if you are hitting the third option you are probably advanced enough to simply get yourself Japanese study material on the Japanese language, either that or you are performing some odd magic because I don't know how a person can have read all of Tae Kim, then read all of DoJG and then still have a problem with reading Japanese texts, especially considering Japanese textbooks aren't usually written in archaic "ye olde wapanese".

This is starting to feel like we are entering the territory of the linguistic equivalent of the notorious "katana best blade, steel folded 1000000 times!", i.e. Japanese oh so hard nobody can learn it unless they get themselves a Pai Mei and spend 10 years studying a top of a mountain to learn this fine art. It is hard, but it isn't that fucking hard. I managed to do it, I am not some whizkid, I am not a savant, at most I might have a light case of Asperger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699800
I'm just saying your comparison seems a bit silly, because yes, DoJG is a dictionary, but unlike other dictionaries, anyone who is serious about learning Japanese will eventually be familiar with the entirety of its contents.
While I wouldn't advise it, I don't see why one couldn't use DoBJG with DoJG deck ordering as a beginner's grammar guide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699803
Well first and foremost because reading dictionaries is insanely dull. Reading the DoJG books as books, starting at page 1 reading it straight through to the end, using it as your primary learning tool, I can't think of a duller way of learning a language. It goes against everything CLIL has shown to be effective ways of learning.
That isn't to say you should neglect books plant yourself in front of anime 24/7 and simply hope you turn into a language amoeba absorbing everything through osmosis. As I said, DoJG are great books and I have used them extensively. I am also sure there are people who indeed can sit down and read through the entire thing as if it were a novel. However, in my weightless opinion anyway, telling a beginner to "lol just read DoJG" is bad advise. You wouldn't tell an Asian person to "simply read the Oxford dictionary of English grammar" and think that was good advise either, that is terrible advise. You would tell them to buy the book, to use it extensively, but you would never tell them to use that as their primary learning tool, to read it front to back. If anything that is why Asians are terrible at English, because that is what a lot of their schools are basically trying to do, ram in grammar rule #1 through #9999 without ever exposing the students (or teachers for that matter) to the language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699834
I said CLIL, but I meant language immersion. They share some ground, but they are two very distinct and different things

[Anonymous No.]

Why's the Imabi guide so fucking ugly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699877
Because it's not written to grab the attention of normies enthralled by pretty colours and iCool graphic design.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16699877
Because it has mistakes from the get go. Not to mention it consistently missreferences its own pages and examples

>take a look at ex. 8
When it is actually referring to ex. 6

Sure, might sound like a small thing, but to me it just indicates that shit isn't being proofread.
>b-but so much effort and its free
I would rather simply pay.

If I want quick and simple I have Tae Kim, if I want extensive and detailed I have DOJG. What fucking niche is imabi trying to fill?It is neither simple enough to compare to Kim, nor extensive enough to compare to DOJG. It is just a convoluted mess that combines the worst aspects of DOJG with the worst aspects of TaeKim.