/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What would you say is the worst or most forgettable mainline tohou windows game?

We had a nice discussion about it last time

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
LoLK

[Anonymous No.]

I'd tell you, but I forgot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369109
Completely disagree

LoLK has had a huge impact with the fans, with a lot of doujin works done with the characters and music, specially clownpiece and hot topic chan.

The most forgettable by a mile is ten desires

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369124
It was designed that way
Why else would there be a 2hu dressed in the american flag and the most "powerful" 2hu wearing funny t-shirt?

It was forgettable from a gameplay and design perspective

[Anonymous No.]

It's DDC.
Contrarians gtfo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369174
DDC was one of the best entires and having 2 boring characters that share the same stage doesn't make it any less interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369124
>The most forgettable by a mile is ten desires
Ten Desires is a beautiful game.

I'd go with DDC as the most 'forgettable'.

All Touhou games are really memorable though.

>>16369135
>"b-but muh american flag loli!"
LoLK had a lot of excellent things going for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369211
Like?

[Anonymous No.]

People say DDC because of the tsukumo sisters, but LoLK also had the literal who bunnies and nobody complained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369124
I agree with this. I don't like LoLK but I have to admit the characters in particular are very memorable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369174
>DDC

The only contrarian is you my friend.

>>16369105
I would say either UFO or TD in the modern main line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369242
To expand, the bunnies are pretty forgettable but once you find out about clownpiece you can never forget. She is easily one of the most memorable characters. Junko is decently memorable as well.

[Anonymous No.]

Cirno is now a memorable character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369233
The "literal who bunnies" are just Stage 1 and Stage 2 bosses. Besides, Seiran is the rabbit with the best design and Ringo has September Pumpkin as theme.
The Tsukumos are Stage 4 bosses who barely have anything to do with the rest of the game. Their theme isn't that good either.
But they're not even the main issue. The problem with DDC characters is that they fall in very distinct, incohesive groups and that there are only two characters truly involved with the incident, Seija (who is actually pretty cool) and Shinmyomaru, the most underwhelming final boss with an incredibly repetitive theme, a repeat of a loop which isn't that good.
Then there's Raiko, the most pointless Windows EX boss, which exists for the sole reason of filling the EX stage spot. What does she have to do with the rest of the game? She's just another tsukumogami born from the Miracle Mallet of Shinmyomaru, who probably doesn't even know her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369264
Only because I could never FUCKING beat her on EoSD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369282
I don't know why you want all the characters to be completely related and pretty much a big "family".
What does that have to do with their designs and intentions? Raiko is a pretty cool character that found a way to maintain her form with power from the outside world.

[Anonymous No.]

EOSD: Basically the face of Touhou at this point.
PCB: Home to multiple recurring staple characters such as Alice, Yukari, Youmu, Yuyuko.
IN: Doesn't feel as centralized in itself, but most of the characters branch off into their own fandoms. Between two "team 9" members, rabbits things and recurring lunarian troubles, and Mokou just off being Mokou.
PoFV: Uhh, you got Komachi... Yuuka fags who can't let go. Eiki isn't all that popular.
MoF: First new system, new bombing mechanic that stuck around (unfortunately) for a while, huge cast of recurring characters including a de facto new main character.
SA: The only thing memorable about it is the INTENSE waifufaggotry of Okuu fans, and how Koishi turned into Flandre 2.0
UFO: The literalliest whoiest cast of the entire series. You got Byakuren. That's it. Kogasa somehow managed to escape into the next game.
TD: Notable for a strange game mechanic, and a completely unexpected playable character. A few recurring characters and completing the strange religion wars ZUN kept going with for some reason.
DDC: Strangely the most popular characters are the ones that showed up in the demo, and not the other way around.
LoLK: I'd give it another year to see where we're at with this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369317
Because it makes them have good chemistry and interaction with the rest of the game instead of being just filler for the early stages. I can excuse the first stages bosses (even if ZUN has shown he can make them somewhat relevant), but there's no reason to have an EX boss who's completely detached from the rest of the game, when every other EX boss had connections with the main game. I'd like Raiko to have a more active role, maybe in a spinoff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369356
But she was connected to the main plot, did you even play the game?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369362
Did you read my previous post? I already know who Raiko is, but her connection is much looser than the ones of Flandre (sister of Remilia), Ran (Chen's master and servant of Yukari, who is Yuyuko's best friend), Mokou (Kaguya's rival), Suwako (Kanako's partner and Sanae's ancestor), Koishi (Satori's sister), Nue (Byakuren's disciple and the one who's been spreading the ufos), Mamizou (ace to counter Miko and Nue's friend...ok, she didn't have much to do in TD, but this in fact hurt her popularity a lot) or Hecatia (Junko's best friend).
Her whole point is that she wants to be free. Ok, why do I have to fight her?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369393
>her connection is much looser than the ones of Flandre (sister of Remilia)
Funny, considering that's pretty much the only thing you're gonna get out of a character like Flandre.
Looks like if the character doesn't have a blood relation or is X's servant/master then she's "forgettable" to you.

A character doesn't need any of that shit to be good or interesting. It's almost as complaining about a character not having a werid hair color or a silly hat.

[Anonymous No.]

I remember all of the games and characters because I have played them all.

This discussion boils down to "which game has characters that don't have as much fanart that you like"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369422
I listed Flandre for the sake of completeness, I don't even like the EoSD cast much. Also, many of those characters don't fall in the "blood relative/master-servant" category and had actual reasons to fight the heroine.
Also, how are interactions with other characters and role in the story irrelevant for the depth of a character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369331
I mostly agree with this. I think UFO is tied with TD as being the least memorable, though. UFO's music is better, than TD's.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369517
They can be as irrelevant as someone being somenone's sister.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369211
>DDC
Double dealing character has some of the best music of recent titles and is kinda a throwback to the early titles in terms of gameplay.

Even if you argue that the game is not good, it has a lot of presence in the fanbase and doujin circles, sekibanki, kagerou and seija come to mind, I also blame the return of Sakuya as a playable character, which brought the attention of those who consider the maid their waifu I'm guilty of this too, sakuya was the main reason I tried DDC

I insist that TD is very forgettable. UFO had the fame of being ball-busting hard and having characters like nazrin, kogasa and byakuren, so itsa bit above

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369331
Pretry nice list, however I have yo say subterranean animism has some really memorable characters besides the ones you mentioned
Orin because who the fuck doesnt like catgirls and those porn doujins featuring her as a futa prostitute and Parsee and Yuugi for being infamously hard

In fact, SA is difficult as fuck in general

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369282
>Shinmyomaru, the most underwhelming final boss with an incredibly repetitive theme, a repeat of a loop which isn't that good.
Please kill yourself 'kudasai'

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369479
At that point you would need to say what game was the worst and why

[Anonymous No.]

I'm too fucking casual to tell which one is better so I'll just mention the games I've played in order of how much I liked them

IN>DDC>SA>PCB>(dislike)>EoSD>MoF

Ten desires and UFO are completely unremarkable to me and have nothing that makes me want to play them
I need to try LoLK

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
PoFV. It's so forgettable that hardly anyone has even mentioned it in this thread...

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369759
Maybe because the people who like it don't feel the need to mention it in a "Worst Windows Touhou game" thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369792
But this isn't tge "Worst WIndows Touhou game" thread

[OP No.]

>>16369759
>>16369792
>>16369803
1-it is a "worst tohou" thread
2-PoFV is pretty good, however it is definitely unfair to bring it up in these discussions because it is too different from the rest games to be a legit comparison

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369803
>What would you say is the worst or most forgettable tohou windows game?

That being said, I completely agree with you. I can't stand playing PoFV (aside from multiplayer, which hardly anyone plays for that matter) and only like two of its songs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369331
>PoFV: Uhh, you got Komachi... Yuuka fags who can't let go. Eiki isn't all that popular.
There's also Aya who was very popular and reoccurring. In fact she then went on to be in several more games including her own spinoffs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369886
And then there's Medicine who...is Medicine.

[Anonymous No.]

TD is the most forgettable to me. Miko and Mamizou are pretty important in canon but I never remember the game they're from.

I don't care to comment on "worst" because these discussions are just the same shit over and over again

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369886
In that case, it would just be as forgettable as SA and UFO according to this guy: one or two popular characters and nothing else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369895
I started typing about her, but she's not that notable asides from being brought up whenever someone talks about unpopular Touhou characters enough to be the most popular of them.

[Anonymous No.]

People here are mainly talking about forgettable casts and worst gameplay, but what about forgettable soundtracks? I can agree with people here who say TD isn't good, but I love its soundtrack more than most of the other games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369899
I was pretty indifferent to them when I first played it (except for Seiga, Seiga has always been great) then I read "Soga no Tojiko will not talk" and I started liking Taoists, especially Tojiko and Futo.
I still prefer Byakuren though.
>>16369923
Yeah, TD soundtrack is good. It's not my favorite, but it has some fantastic gems (Stage 3, Stage 4, Boss 4, Stage 5, Final Boss). The Spirit World versions are cool as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
>forgettable
Every Touhou instalment is important for the series in some way. Don't know what's the point of this thread.
>tohou
Oh I see now.

[Anonymous No.]

For the longest time I thought ZUN skipped touhou 13 and from touhou 12 moved straight into 14 because Ten Desires is so fucking forgettable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369923
I agree on TD soundtrack. It's very immersive and I think conveys the mood of the game very well, more so than the other games in my opinion. I'd have to make an exception for Kyouko's theme though. I'm not sure where he was going with this one because it certainly doesn't fit the temple theme and seems out of place.

I think PoFV has the worst soundtrack overall.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369923
EoSD hasn't aged well

the songs are great but they just sound terrible in game, the trumpets are jarring

[Anonymous No.]

Either Ten Desires or Double Dealing Character. Leaning towards DDC, heck, Raikou is only remembered because she's so forgettable.

Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom is the first game with memorable music, characters and plot since Undefined Fantastic Object.

I blame his wife sucking up his creativity whenever they fucked but thank his kid for revitalizing his energy when the kid was born.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370111
Who the hell is Raikou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370129
I think it's that one Pokemon that purifies water

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370111

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370111
DDC is way better than UFO by virtue of having sakuya as playable and having much better music

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
I love DDC, but it's DDC. Every game has a certain thing that makes it memorable, but DDC is the most uncohesive work in the series. The soundtrack is great, but it's all over the place. The characters are cute, but barely have anything to do with each other. And (at least for me), it was too easy. I usually struggle with a Touhou game for a few days before I can 1cc it. DDC took me a few hours. There's a lot to like, but it's an incredibly simple game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370177
>Every game has a certain thing that makes it memorable
Like?

>DDC is the most uncohesive work in the series
How so?

>The soundtrack is great, but it's all over the place
What is this supposed to mean?

>The characters are cute, but barely have anything to do with each other
How is this a bad thing?
We don't need more SDM casts

>And (at least for me), it was too easy
Try playing on something higher than Normal

>it's an incredibly simple game
Just like every other Touhou game

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
overall...MoF

At least in terms of "Forgettable". At least, it's the one I always stop to remember.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369331
>MoF: huge cast of recurring characters including a de facto new main character.
thing is, I remember them more for everything OUTSIDE of MoF rather than MoF itself

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369886
Spin offs have nothing to do with her popularity.

ZUN made Aya because he wanted to make a game where you took pictures of danmaku, but he needed a character for it, so he made and introduced Aya.

Similarly, I doubt he had Seija be the MC of a game because of popularity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370111
>I blame his wife sucking up his creativity whenever they fucked but thank his kid for revitalizing his energy when the kid was born.

So creativity is some immutable concept stored in semen, that can be stolen by sex but also duplicated by reproduction? Does having a child increase creativity, or does it simply restore it to normal values?

i.e. total creativity = -(sum of semen theft) + (child semen)

Does masturbation affect it? I have so many questions.

[Anonymous No.]

DFC, not really even close

[Anonymous No.]

Save from PoFV (which I don't think it's very fair to pit against the other games), DDC is the most forgettable by far.
Characters are barely related to each other, the early bosses don't even get to show their real personalities and the only nuance to the plot is Shinmyoumaru's resentment towards the strong - at least EoSD makes up for barebone backstory with an extremely good cast synergy and in SA, the individual characters are walking piles of issues and thus interesting. Add in the blandest patterns this side of PC98 aside from a few gimmicks and mediocre soundtrack because ZUN wanted more guitars and less Zunpets and we have a game that could be removed from the series with minimal harm.

Aside from DDC, I suppose we have UFO with it's flat cast and no interesting incident, but that one at least defends itself with Kogasa, Byakuren and Nue. Then we have TD with even more boring incident, lukewarm soundtrack and stupid gameplay decisions - but at least the cast is one of the best between Mamizou and the Taoists (who are tight-knit, well-balanced and could easily have the synergy of SDM, had Tojiko decided to speak and be a counterpart to Futo). Then SA, I suppose, if only for the fact that it's cast is just as unrelated to anything as DDC and thus hard to make use of for worldbuilding reasons - but at least Chireiden is very comfy.

Calling games from EoSD to MoF forgettable would be a mistake (EoSD has SDM, PCB has Alice, Youmu, Yuyuko and the Yakumo family as well as a pretty important incident, IN has Eientei, Keine, Mokou and a huge-ass backstory and MoF has Nitori and the Moriya Trio - plus all of these have great soundtracks and patterns). LoLK can't be possibly forgotten either with it's absurd gameplay, colorful characters, high stakes and extensive backstory that ties into even larger backstory of IN).

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370590
Calling your opinion not bait would be a mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370590
See
>>16370145

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370590
I have a hard time believing anyone thinks EoSD has better patterns than DDC, the only particularly interesting ones were Patchouli's spellcards

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370655
It's just a shitposter samefagging, look at the IP counter vs number of posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370655
Rumia's cards, Meiling's tunnels and two layers, most of Patchouli, Misdirection, Demon Lord, Thousand Needle, Curse of Vlad Tepes and nearly all of Extra are very pleasant to the eyes.

In DDC, I get the feeling that the characters have the least varied danmaku sets in the series. Skbnk has tunnels and more tunnels (if two interesting concepts between them), Kagerou has the most raw danmaku ever, Tsukumo sisters are okay-ish but their nonspells get repetitive, Seija has bland patterns made hard by the control screws and Shinmyoumaru loves her little dots a bit too much. At least Raiko's pretty gut in terms of the danmaku structure, even if she's average in terms of eye candy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370675
>samefagging
Do you people just not use extensions?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370701
Did you even read?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370707
Do you know how to actually check samefagging or are you really out to be the victim here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370714
Why are you so upset?
Found out huh?

Don't worry, you can reset your router and add another IP to prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370684
>This shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370684
>>16370725

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370721
Okay let me explain.

You see that number in the parentheses?
That only appears when a new IP posts in a thread.
Also, I'm using 4chan X, so to indicate which posts were mine, these little thingies to the side appear.
I have only made 4 (including this one) posts in this thread.

But you're just going to keep acting like a doofus to save face here so I'll just stop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370684
>>16370725
>>16370726
>Better than this

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370684
>>16370725
>>16370726
>>16370731
>And this
Try again shitposter
I'm quoting my self btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370727
I don't care about your shitty extension, read my post again before replying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370727
>>16370750
stop ARGUING

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369331
>UFO: The literalliest whoiest cast of the entire series.
With UFO I can at least remember their names. TD is almost entirely forgettable for me character wise, and the only reasons I even remember anything about Futo and Miko are Futo's accent and the history of japan meme.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly, I'm just SICK of people downplaying the game because the cast is not "le happy fucking family".
It has THE most fun gimmick in the entire series. The cast while not very connected as you people might want, is really well designed and doesn't rely on silly clothes to be interesting.
The Music is really well composed, like Stage 5 which is beautiful.
The story is short but it's quite interesting and works pretty well.
It has the best Reimu shottype in any game, features Sakuya as a playable character and even has Marisa with a flamethrower.

It's so damn fun, I think the people who dislike it don't really play the games that much and that's why when they look at it from a secondary perspective, like the cast relations, they feel disappointed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370731
>>16370735
>>16370675
Stop saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a shitposter. Just because attacks aren't patterned doesn't mean that they are bad. Maybe it's inevitable that this sort of discussion will attract these sorts of posters.

>>16370655
Well you haven't tried scoring them then. EoSD has some cool grazes compared to DDC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370825
>Just because attacks aren't patterned doesn't mean that they are bad
Then why did you complain about Kagerou's raw danmaku?
Double standards much?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370834
I did not complain about Kagerou's raw danmaku, you must have confused me with some other person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370841
Oh how convenient, then let me just quote a post that's actually yours, like >>16370825
>cool grazes
What do you mean by "cool grazes" and how do they make EoSD's bland patterns into something better?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370735
So, you cherry picked two plain patterns against one plain pattern and one okay pattern (the laser grid), despite me bringing up a much larger share of cards, and treated your personal opinion about them like some sort of self-evident truth that apparently proves that I'm a shitposter?

Well,, good job, idiot. I'm almost impressed by the lenghts you went to in order to validate your opinion in your own eyes. But that makes no difference in the quality of the either game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370875
I only took spellcards from stage 4 bosses, that's hardly cherrypicking.
EoSD is a really low quality game, you are just deluded if you think it's not.
It looks like shit, has shit patterns and shit controls.
The game comes with built-in input lag, are you also gonna defend that as "better"?

What a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370847
Well the entirety of EoSD stage 3 for one. Turns it into something much more exciting than simple tapstreaming.

Around half of your PIV in DDC comes from bombing and suiciding on Sekibanki and it looks quite dull. There isn't much grazing in general.

EoSD patterns seem fun enough to me, I'm not sure why you think they are so bad, honestly. Maybe we have different opinions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370893
>looks like shit
Aesthetics don't matter much.
>shit patterns
You have yet to prove it.
>The game comes with built-in input lag, are you also gonna defend that as "better"?
That's not a valid argument when vpatch exists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370897
>There isn't much grazing in general
That's because you're not doing it correctly.
Please, learn the game before criticizing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370905
>Aesthetics don't matter much.
That's the whole point of danmaku you dumbass

>You have yet to prove it.
Do you want me to keep posting comparisons?
I bet you'd just use your free out of jail card again calling them cherrypicked

>That's not a valid argument when vpatch exists.
If you need mods and unofficial patches to make your game playable, then it's not a very good game to begin with. This is a simple fact and only a deluded fanboy would disagree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370818
Projection much?

I didn't even call it a bad game, just that it's forgettable in most aspects compared to the rest of the series. And while it almost feels to me that Zun intended it to be that way, you're in no way obliged to agree with me.

Oh, and I don't really take shot types into consideration (unless they're particularly interesting like charge slashes, inverted focus, trailing options, switching options, set in place, etc). DDC is in fact on the worse side (two homing types that are also broken in tems of damage, a fucking resource milking type, your typical Reimu, a score milking type that is otherwise shit and admittedly an interesting flamethrower type). Unless you're arguing Sakuya makes everything better, in which case I couldn't give a damn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370925
The only "forgettable" part of the game were the tsukumo sisters, and even then the rest of the game was really on point, including characters, music, backgrounds and patterns.

Are you implying that ReimuA isn't an interesting shottype?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370910
Learning games is too hard. I'll defer to your judgement though. Probably shouldn't have brought up DDC grazes in the first place since the original topic was EoSD grazes, not a comparison between the two games.

>>16370919
No it isn't.

Your comparisons hardly prove anything.

You could also play it on an older computer and it could fine. Think of vpatch like emulation. Playing Super Mario 64 on an emulator on your PC doesn't make it any worse of a game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370941
>Your comparisons hardly prove anything.
And I guess your opinion is better proof right?
Don't waste my time

>Think of vpatch like emulation
What kind of retarded analogy are you trying to make?
Emulation? Super Mario 64? Are you lost?
>>>/v/ is that way

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370893
>The game comes with built-in input lag
No it doesn't

That's just the result of ZUN not future-proofing his games

It controls perfectly fine on an old-enough computer

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370963
>old-enough computer
Give me specific hardware and OS

[Anonymous No.]

This is beyond the point anyway, input lag or not, the game itself is not good at all.
The only remarkable thing about is, surprise surprise, the cast. Which seconaries fell in love with.

As a GAME, the thing sucks. As a doujin mine, it's really really good. Which is the opposite of DDC.

Even MS, a PC-98 game was way better.

[Anonymous No.]

DDC has an awful soundtrack. Little Princess is the ultimate filer of taste: people who like it don't really like Touhou music.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371000
>People who like Touhou music don't like Touhou music
I'm quoting your retarded shitposter logic here

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371000
These are the kind of posts that make up these types of threads. Complete nothing posts that don't add anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370941
>No it isn't.
Spellcard rules quite literally dictate the patterns to be beautiful, thematic, or aesthetically pleasing. The only one who directly goes against this is Junko who literally "purifies" her danmaku into basic elements to weaponize it and her danmaku is almost universally reviled.

Are you sure you're not confusing Touhou with a bullet hell or generic shmup series?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371055
The whole point of danmaku is not to be pretty. It's primarily meant to be fun. Although being pretty is a bonus too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371068
I've never read a more secondary post in my entire life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371000
I'll bite.
Which games do you think have good soundtracks, then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371068
>The whole point of danmaku is not to be pretty

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371094
>>16371084
Okay let me rephrase that. Being pretty is not the whole point of danmaku. Better now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371100
You went from 100% wrong to 100% wrong.

I bet you think the whole point of pokemon isn't to catch em all either, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371123
Catching them all is only part of the monster collecting deal, the training and battling parts also make up big parts of Pokemon themselves. Quite possibly arguably more than catching all of them.

[Anonymous No.]

Def the one with Miko in it

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Wait no, it's definitely Hatate's game
So forgettable even ZUN forgot about it

This is the true answer

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371000
I'm curious to how you came to that conclusion, if you're not just trolling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371197
DS has a godlike aesthetic, incredible soundtrack and a wealth of good patterns, including giving danmaku to characters who previously had none. Unfortunately I still have to agree that it was pretty forgettable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370468
Taoism can actually answer these questions and more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371197
Mainline.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370468
Oh am I laffin

[OP No.]

Hilarious

I made this same exact thread some time ago, barely a month or so after LoLK came out and everyone was saying that it was the absolute worst game

Time passes and now nobody says its the worst anymore

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369923
PoFV for the absolutely abhorrent remixes of Deaf to all but the Song and Phantom Ensemble

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371962
Forgettable doesn't mean worst. Some people are saying one thing and others the other.

[OP No.]

>>16371988
But I specifically said in the OP "worst"

[Anonymous No.]

About the whole "pretty vs fun": in-universe, the point is beauty. In real life, the point is fun AND beauty: it's a game, so you should have fun and find it pleasant. Junko is an exceptional case, where plot took priority and her danmaku, even if simple, is good to look at anyway.
>>16370086
Am I the only one who likes those high pitches and sound distorsions in EoSD? They have a nostalgic feel and really make the soundtrack for me.
>>16370590
I agree with your points, except for the considerations about TD soundtrack (which I like) and SA: how is its cast "unrelated"? They're all despised youkai who were forced to live in the Underground and, among them, the Chireiden crew, which is two sisters and their pets who start the incident, with Utsuho creating the geyser and Orin putting the spirits to call the heroines (so pretty tight knit) who are hated even among those Underground youkai.
This is the actual problem with using them along with other characters: in-universe, everyone hates them and ZUN himself said he didn't include Satori (something I absolutely disapprove, but beggars can't be choosers) in SoPM because the story would have felt weird.
>>16371086
Not him (I'm the other anon who complained about Little Princess), but my favorite final boss theme is either Septette, Suwa Foughten Field or Emotional Skyscraper. Can't decide, because they're all so beautiful and varied.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372000
>Septette, Suwa Foughten Field or Emotional Skyscraper
for me its definitely Solar Sect of Mystic Wisdom

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371962
/jp/ has been saying the "latest touhou game" was the worst in the series right after it comes out since UFO

Everyone hated clownpiece's design at first and now /jp/ seems to love it

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372026
I still hate UFO and its entire cast.
My first game was IN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372019
I like Nuclear Fusion (and Utsuho is one of my favorite characters), but after a while it starts to get repetitive. It fits the battle but it's not a fantastic track to listen to on its own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371998
>worst or most forgettable
quoting you

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372000
>I'm the other anon who complained about Little Princess
Faggot

[Anonymous No.]

Why do I get the feeling that if this thread was about discussing our favorite games it wouldn't have got as much activity?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372081
Well I like listening to it on its own

different tastes I guess

[OP No.]

>>16372091
exactly

why the fuck everybody is focusing on most forgettable when "worst" comes first is fucking incomprehensible

[Anonymous No.]

>120 posts
>36 posters

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372127
I'm sorry sir, I didn't realize we were only allowed to post once ever.

[OP No.]

>>16372127
nice discussion going I would say

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372131
>nice
You didn't make this thread for "nice" discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372108
because there is no disagreement and nobody cares about what others like

however when someone mention what you like that's when you need to intervene

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372108
Because such a thread wouldn't have been made by, nor populated by /v/tards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372134
the fuck you know?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372108
I feel the "most favorite game" discussion would have expanded in a "most favorite and least favorite game" discussion anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372205
Enough to know that you are a crossboarder shitposter

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372235
what the fuck

where does this come from and why you have the need to do pitiful insults
what the fuck are you trying to accomplish by shitting on this thread
>inb4 "the thread was shit because of you"
fuck off if you have nothing to add

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372243
Who are you quoting newfag?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370972
Dunno

The kind of computer you'd see back in 2002, with Windows ME or XP built-in and such

You should know, shotty, it's the kind of computer they have over there

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
You could've keep this discussion on gameplay thread instead of making a new thread.

You're clogging the board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372726
Dumb shitposter

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372763
>>16372763
You are the one being a shitposter here

He might be wrong, but you are the shitposter by virtue of coming to call something shit and insulting whoever disagrees
Fuck you

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372881
That's hilarious because that's literally what you've been doing so far
I came here to defend a good game from shitposters like you, not to stir shit up with no reasoning or arguments like you do

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372891
I said that I'm not the guy you've been arguing with, so you have no fucking idea who I am, yet you went ahead and just said "NO U!!!!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372962
>I'm not the guy you've been arguing with
Then why the fuck should I care about what you think?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16371000
Little Princess could have been easily the best final boss theme, had ZUN not dropped a full minute of nothing right in the middle of it and then pretended there was a legitimate buildup to the crescendo.

It's actually one of the very few themes that I prefer to listen to the U2 cover above the original version. Making it more catchy and less turgid did the trick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373034
Yeah, ULiL Little Princess is really nice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373034
>>16373128
ULiL's soundtrack sucks in general, you people are completely out of your mind if you think the original Little Princess is worse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
all of them

[Anonymous No.]

In terms of cast: UFO

Which is kinda funny because most of the charatcers (besides Kogasa) were actually related to the plot for once instead of just being there.

[Anonymous No.]

SS: FW
S: SA, PCB
A: UFO, MoF
B: TD, IN, DDC
C: LoLK, EoSD
D: PoFV

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373338
>FW
>Mainline
>good

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373338
D: PoFV, FW, SA, PCB, UFO, MoF, TD, IN, DDC, LoLK, EoSD

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373338
S: [my favorite game]
F-: [your favorite game]

[Anonymous No.]

DDC is easily the most forgettable game. The entire "incident" is a series of unrelated fights happening in unrelated places which all come down to "I want to fight". It's supposed to be chaos and revolution but feels like a walk in the park where some annoying children approach you.
The game would be better off as a fighting game with no linear story. As a mainline Touhou game, it feels full of filler characters. What's even the characterization behind Wakasagihime, Sekibanki, or Kagerou except "I live in this lake/village outskirts/bamboo forest but I was forgotten, now I feel angry! Beta uprising REEEE"?? It also feels full of meme characters like the mermaid and werewolf which a part of the fanbase wanted so badly. I'd rather have characters completely unrelated to the incidents like Chen or Keine with their own reasoning, background and relation to the story than characters which are related to the incident but are literally fodder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373592
Please be satire

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373592 here
I hadn't seen OP's >>16372124 so here's what I think is the worst game: UFO.
The UFO system is possibly the worst one of the series, making you memorize where each UFO would be and what color it would be to actually get bombs/lives. There's no skill involved, you just have to remember where they are. The color changing mechanic is also annoying and time consuming, forcing you to wait to get the red or green colors which are the only relevant ones in the game.
Terrible mechanics aside, UFO's special snowflake danmaku are quite boring. By that I mean the umbrella, Unzan fists and anchors. ZUN is creative enough to come up with hundreds of patterns with basic circle danmaku. For UFO he created extra different sprites for patterns that would be almost exactly the same without those sprites. I know this is probably a nitpick but for what purpose did he do that? They don't add any value to the gameplay unlike, say, Marisa's star danmaku from IN or even Nazrin's triple pendulums (which also served as extra hitboxes).

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373649
Try harder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373649
>There's no skill involved, you just have to remember where they are.
What does this mean? Couldn't you say this about every danmaku pattern in the series?

[Anonymous No.]

Kuso thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373338
Pretty good. Might as well post my own. I included PC-98 because it felt a bit empty without them.
S: UFO, IN, PCB
A: MS, MoF, LLS
B: SA, DDC, EoSD
C: LoLK, TD, SoEW
D: HRtP, PoDD, PoFV

>>16372000
Those songs are all great. About EoSD's soundtrack, I do like the atmosphere the edited instrument patches give, but I'm not a fan of most of the songs themselves. The only songs I like are stages 3-5, Patchouli's theme, and Remilia's theme, but at least those ones are fantastic.

>>16373146
It's better than every other fighting game soundtrack, at least. Notwithstanding ZUN's compositions for the new characters.

>>16373649
I actually enjoyed the patterns. I thought the sprites gave them a bit more character, not sure what you mean by "not adding value to gameplay". I hated the UFO system at first, but it grew on me once I got used to it. I'd say it takes more skill to time UFO kills and manage colors than the old point based extends and bomb drops from bosses (although the latter is definitely a better system overall). I also really liked the throwbacks to the PC-98 games, MS in particular.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373688
There's a difference between muscle memory and pattern memorization. When you get past a certain point of skill, you won't need to fail multiple times against a spellcard to memorize it just so you won't be surprised by its changes. The only game like that is LoLK, but it is built around that idea. You can adapt and dodge a new spellcard with the muscle memory skills you've got from past spellcards.
Applying the concept of skill is literally impossible with UFO since the color of the UFO doesn't depend on you. The part that needs skill is getting the UFO but it takes 3 seconds at best to defeat a big fairy and make it drop the UFO, if you can't aim at the fairy for that long you shouldn't be playing in that difficulty. Even if you're skilled enough to aim at the UFO while fighting a boss, it just despawns, so you have to not summon any UFOs imeediately before a boss or you'll be punished by it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373693
Honestly? I agree with you, shotty. It all boiled down to "my favorite game is less forgettable than yours"

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373803
>I agree with you, shotty
You're not supposed to do that

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373611
1-Not him, but it's true.
2-HOLY SHIT, IS THAT A COLORED VERSION OF SoPM KOISHI?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373861
>Not him, but it's true

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373886
Let's say "I agree with him".
Now, why can't I find the sauce for that colored SoPM Koishi? SauceNao doesn't give me anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16374197
Because you need to lurk moar

[Anonymous No.]

All tuhu games that are not 6-8 are fucking forgetable and literaly noone cares about them
Maybe because there are literaly no lore in past 8 games (you dont know why and where is happening , you must read some gay zun ocs to understand) and the fact that newhus cant do 6 stage bosses right (also genericbossfight music) and extras in newhus are fucking piss easy.
The only newhu that is memorable is lolk because clownloli and strange tshirt and dude difficulty lmao
Even on boorus ''important newhus'' have like 1 k entries when midboss from old have 20

[Anonymous No.]

>>16374655
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373592
kill yourself kudasai

[Anonymous No.]

It's got to be either UFO, TD, DDC or LoLK, so let's break it down.

Ordered by forgetfulness, from least to most impactful/interesting:
Early bosses:
4. TD - cheated using previous games' characters
3. UFO - saved by Kogasa.
2. LoLK - Doremy is stuck with a pair of ultimately generic bunnies.
1. DDC - charming S2 boss and positively lewd S3 boss

Late bosses:
4. UFO - Shou is the postergirl for "eh... who?". I dare you to find a single fan who considers her to be their favorite touhu.
3. TD - completely serviceable, and nothing more.
2. DDC - the instrument sisters are infamous for their forgettability... an infamy that ironically makes them notable. Seija by herself is popular enough to keep DDC above water.
1. LoLK - it's freakin' CP. Nothing gonna beat that anytime soon. And Sagume ain't all that bad either, even though the community still apparently struggles to properly nail down her personality.

Final & Extra bosses:
4. TD - for a game to have an unpopular final boss is bad enough. For the same game to have an intolerable raccoon who keep being shoved down our throat as an extra boss.. that's a death sentence
3. DDC - smol is cute, but not much more. Despite her potential, I haven't seen too many doujin featuring her. Raiko is so forgotten it's almost depressing; she is by far the least popular extra boss in the entire series.
2. LoLK - Junko is roughly on par with Miko, but is greatly helped by Hecatia, who is probably the strongest extra boss we've had since SA.
1. UFO - Byakuren isn't all that good (she's popular mostly for her theme and her lewd), and Nue isn't doing that great either (she's popular only for her lewd), but both taken together are a much stronger pair than anything else on this list.

So looking at it objectively and scientifically, we can safely deduce that TD is the touhou game with the crappiest characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369105
Is this the thread where we pretend that the most forgettable games aren't something in the 98 era?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16375081
Is this the poster than didn't thin MS and LLS were great games?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16375081
Windows was specified in the OP.

>>16375120
Despite how great LLS and MS are, I can't really say the same for the first three games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370998
Mystic square was awesome you heretic

[Anonymous No.]

>>16372108
Nerds are fueld primarily by hatred of all things, especially the opinions of other nerds

[Anonymous No.]

>>16369124
Junko was my favorite. I really enjoyed the colors used.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370684
To be fair to Kagerou, I don't think most spell cards have you in danger of being tackled by the caster.

Happened to me a couple times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370655
Emerald Megalith, Sylphae Horn, Sakuya's 1st and 2nd nonspells, Killing Doll, Vampire Illusion, Scarlet Meister, and Scarlet Gensokyo are all truly great patterns that never get old for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370847

[Anonymous No.]

>>16370847

[Anonymous No.]

>>16375783
>>16375804
Am I supposed to be impressed by your basic understanding of streaming?

[Anonymous No.]

>>16373569
The fuck did you say about IN?

[OP No.]

>>16373803
A fucking shame really, last time discussion went much better

Should have just said "worst" because when you value worst gameplay you focus more on technical aspects that are more objective than considering how much a game is forgettable

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376142
Laser books isn't basic streaming, you have to memorize correct positioning and timing, as well as jump distance on the larger taps. And knife spins isn't streaming whatsoever, considering the knives aren't aimed to begin with. Anyway, most grazes in the games are either some form of streaming or safespot abuse. Or in EoSD's case, sometimes using bombs to graze.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376292
That first grazing in your video is just a design error that ZUN fixed in future games.
The second one is just bombing and standing inside Sakuya. The very same thing you complained about Sekibanki.

Just accept that EoSD is nothing special and the only reason it was popular it's because it was the first windows game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376311
>The very same thing you complained about Sekibanki.

I'm not that person you were talking to, I just decided to respond because you brought up EoSD grazes.

>That first grazing in your video is just a design error that ZUN fixed in future games.
>fixed in future games

Oh I'm laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7qO8N5M4E

EoSD has very fun, RNG-heavy patterns. That's what makes it special. The other games don't have the same density of patterns of that type, which is what makes EoSD special.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376337
Why did you post that Raiko non-spell?

That's clearly not the same thing Sakuya did on your webm.

>RNG-heavy patterns
If anything, this just makes it special in the sense that it turn a mediocre game into something worse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376346
I thought you were talking about >>16375783
since you said "first video". And even then, your claim that ZUN fixed >>16376292
in later games makes no sense considering Sanae can get graze during her bomb in LoLK (technically all characters can, but Sanae is the most egregious example). Not that something being a design oversight (which is debatable if it actually is, considering LoLK) makes it bad to begin with. Tons of scoring tricks are clearly not intentional. That doesn't make them bad though, like this Night Bird Rumia graze.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376368
>you said "first video"
I said "first grazing in your video", please read before replying.

I was talking about how Sakuya is just shooting a downwards stream, making it easy to just stay on top and completely ignore it.

I don't know what's your goal here. Every game has its own scoring techniques using bugs and oversights, but nobody should use that to objectively criticize each game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376387
>making it easy to just stay on top and completely ignore it.
It's not easy if you're trying to optimize the graze from it, since it requires you to closely follow her during her movements in order to graze the red kunai she shoot at the very end of each wave. The difference between following her closely and playing safe can be 500+ graze. That's the beauty of grazing as a scoring mechanic, even simple things can be made more challenging. Almost everything can be grazed more efficiently, so there's a nice risk-vs-reward trade-off.
>I don't know what's your goal here.
You were arguing with someone else about EoSD's grazing got brought up, so I decided to post some examples because EoSD is my favorite game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376418
Again, it's not intended.
You can't use it as a valid argument to compare other games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16376436

Just because something isn't intended (as if you know what was intended and what wasn't in the first place) doesn't mean it's irrelevant towards the game's overall quality. Not the person you're arguing with by the way I just think what you're saying is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378451
You can't take a game's bug and call it an intended feature, that's just ridiculuous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378458
from what I've seen from the discussion between you two I have to say you are more right

I don't understand his insistence on not admitting that EoSD is kinda outdated. The game isn't bad by any means, but it is ludicrous to consider it the best and turn a blind eye to its shortcomings

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378496
>>16378458
I think it's more so about personal enjoyment and favoritism than thinking it's objectively better than the others.

I'd compare it to competitive Smash players who like Melee more than the later games: it's practically unfinished and suffers from some unintentional mechanics commonly used in play, but these make it unique from the rest of the series. It's a janky game, but it has its fans.

I think this guy thinks the same about EoSD: sure, the later games are better polished and fairer, but EoSD's odd design quirks and unintentional mechanics make it unique compared to other games in the series.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378785
>I'd compare it to competitive Smash

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378785
I see

[Anonymous No.]

>>16378785
>later games are better polished and fairer
Glowshit and broken resource mechanics isn't polished. I prefer EoSD because I have more fun dodging the patterns, it's as simple as that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>16389964
Never had any problem with glowshit but the resources are ridiculous, thats why I never bomb.