[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   

File: 1.28 MB, 1060x1497, 53980502_p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15386030 No.15386030 [Reply] [Original]

Other than the fact that he was killed for real I mean.

I thought people didn't like males in Touhou. ZUN himself has even said that they get in the way and ruin the balance of the series.
So what makes this guy so special out of all the girls?


>> No.15386053

Being a man that isn't a cute girl's accessory or a passive workhorse. The first male human villager to be shown as a character with ambition and relatable reasons for what made him what he was.

>> No.15386078

Why do people keep making threads about him when theres 3 others up currently?

>> No.15386156

May not have seen them. In the case of the last one, it's more about any 2hu and him.

>> No.15386192

I want a Touhou game where the Extra boss is this guy for Reimu, the kutsutsura for Marisa and the thunder dragon for (playable) Kasen.

They've trained hard in the afterlife and finally returned to the surface world, but the first person they met there is the girl who killed them to begin with. Can they win their battle for survival?

>> No.15386775

If people didn't like males in 2hoe then why haven't they kill off Rinno yet?

>> No.15386845

>I though people didn't like males
Secondaries are probably the only ones who give a shit about "muh all female cast" and regularly still spit that out as a severe misconception. There's like at least 11 males or more that have been named and referenced canonically since the 98 games and maybe 2-3 that have actually made an appearance in the canon line of games.
They just get extremely stubborn about being pointed out that they've been wrong the whole time and every new male added makes them even more butthurt.

>> No.15387236

>ZUN himself has even said that they get in the way and ruin the balance of the series.
No, he said that specifically about the shooting games, not about the series as a whole. Might I remind you that the entire reason he wrote CoLA was have a chance to show off a male character? It's so frustrating; he went out of his way years ago to make the point that he doesn't hate males, they just don't fit in the games, and yet people like you still don't get it.

>Being a man that isn't a cute girl's accessory or a passive workhorse.
Kourin was neither of those things, but of course nobody remembers him. And technically, Ichirin is Unzan's accessory, not the other way around, but that doesn't stop her getting all the attention.

Maybe Jinyou-san's popularity is a manifestation of most so-called-fans' desire for all the male characters to die.

>> No.15389179

>Maybe Jinyou-san's popularity is a manifestation of most so-called-fans' desire for all the male characters to die.

>> No.15389206
File: 122 KB, 1600x1200, 1456492645921.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

He's cute desu

>> No.15389259

He's a male character who had an actual design and dialogue and is not Rinnosuke

>> No.15389271

And he got brutally murdered

>> No.15389337

Do people not like Rinnosuke?

>> No.15389448
File: 672 KB, 800x800, Rinnosuke has a gun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No, Rinnosuke is a cool guy. Its just that he is the only notable guy in the games.

>> No.15389454

He was never in any of the games.

>> No.15389494
File: 143 KB, 960x543, Touhou HM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Background character in Hopeless Masquerade

>> No.15389501

Playstation 4 non-zun games don't count.

>> No.15389647

The jinzou has 4 threads!

>> No.15389820

me on the bench

>> No.15389897
File: 883 KB, 1000x849, f6197407f55bb486f435c6ae79ba762a.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>but of course nobody remembers him.
I remember him. A lot of people do.

>> No.15389914
File: 35 KB, 327x348, black cat of ILL omen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>I thought people didn't like males in Touhou.
Yurishits are only a very vocal minority. Touhou fans in general don't mind Rinnosuke, they don't mind Unzan, and they certainly don't pretend there are no males in Gensokyo. The Human Village has to function somehow, and it can't without a healthy population of men.

Heck, even the Lunar Capital (i.e. place of "PURITY") has been shown to have a bunch of males living there.

>> No.15389981

But would they mind if a guy showed up in the games?
I don't understand how it would ruin the balance.

>> No.15390052
File: 112 KB, 444x621, a4065b406dfdd3dea231f83bd3655b8984191a286880d615f96fb5bd6b418b15.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That was more aimed at the anon who either forgot he existed, or implied that he was an accessory. I know he's not really forgotten.

ZUN has discussed this before. (I can't remember exactly where, but it's somewhere on the wiki if you really want to find it.) Basically, it's about aesthetics. In-universe, incidents are settled with danmaku, which is a sport of maidens; the kind of people who are involved with incidents are thus almost invariably female. From a real-world design perspective, that's because he thinks that having fights between men and cute girls wouldn't work with the feel of a danmaku battle, and that a male character in an otherwise all-female game would clash too much and disrupt the atmosphere.

Whether most fans feel the same way is another matter entirely.

>> No.15390056

Pretty much this.

There either is another thread still alive or died 2 days ago talking about why he was killed.

He really disturbed the power structure of the whole place. He was a yokai who was an upcoming defender and hero of the humans.

They killed him because of this and right on the spot before he could grow into his power and achieve something.

>> No.15390164

He's a passive workhorse, just replace the fields with his shop.

>> No.15390182

He does what he wants, all day, every day. He's not bound by the rules of being human or living in the village. He's a totally free man, and takes advantage of that fact by taking it easy all the time, with a side job of conning legendary artifacts off of clueless girls. Don't compare him to some ordinary faceless villager.

>> No.15390276

He's the official /jp/ Touhou!

>> No.15391283

Well, he is a ugly dork and probably a lolicon too, he fits perfectly

>> No.15391301

He wasnt a defender or hero of the humans, what the fuck are you smoking. He was a coward and an idiot who told Reimu explicitly that he killed himself so negative emotions would revive him as a youkai, because he thought she was a youkai too. Maybe if he said nothing and just ran he'd be alive and she would have thought he was a regular spooky youkai, not a jinyou abomination.

He sought neither to defend or protect the humans, he wanted to run away. The humans have a number of youkai on their side already, including Keine. They just don't make a show of their power because they understand how Gensokyo works and that it is a very delicate balance.

People like to project shit on this guy that isn't there.

>> No.15391327

>He really disturbed the power structure of the whole place.

Are you fucking serious? Every named youkai would kill him with one finger.

>> No.15391339

>men don't fit in the games
are youkai only women?

>> No.15391347

It's like faggots finally found out about him or something.

Strange how these threads pop up all of a sudden

>> No.15391374

"I didn't see it" isn't an excuse on /jp/. This is a slow board and threads stay up for a long time. That Sakuya thread has been up for weeks. Have some common courtesy and look at the catalog.

>> No.15391472

No, but like >>15390052 said, due to the nature of danmaku and statements by ZUN, it's thought to be more of a woman's pursuit.

So men just wouldn't be interested. Either because they simply dismiss it, thinking of it as silly, or though they could try. they would just be unsuited to danmaku. But they might fulfill a different role in Gensokyo we just haven't seen yet.

So while incident and some conflict resolution is left to danmaku, maybe men are more involved in diplomacy and Gensokyo politics or something.

>> No.15391485

It's a hierarchy thing, not a DBZ power level thing. A pig putting on a human skinsuit and walking around isn't going to topple the government but it's going to make some waves.

>> No.15391486


Literally every important character we ever saw was female.

>> No.15391489

Interesting! I think it's pretty neat that ZUN went that direction.

>> No.15392181

>Secondaries are probably the only ones who give a shit about "muh all female cast" and regularly still spit that out as a severe misconception.

That said, OP is a fucking idiot for having believed it in the first place.

>> No.15392184

Oh god, it's this guy again.

>> No.15392191

I don't like him.

It's not that I don't like males. Kourin is fantastic. This was a one mini arc villain who died. Why would I like him?

>> No.15392210


>> No.15392227

>I thought people didn't like males in Touhou.
I think most people like Rinnouske. I think he's great.

I like that almost the entire cast are girls because I find them cuter but Rinnouske is cool and owning a shop selling shit from the outside world and specializing in the occult serves a nice niche in the world of Touhou.

The fortune teller I care less for, half because I find him to be a dumb and self-important one-shot character and half because people seem to think he's some kind of hero or something.

>> No.15392268

>and specializing in the occult

>> No.15393941

Men provide sperm and do various other works.

Gensoukyou doesn't have real "politics". Some youkai have societies and rules, but that's about as far as that goes. Every one of them likes exercising influence to control territory, such as the human village. Females do all that stuff too.

And the human village COMPLETELY lacks politics, quite deliberately, since if human society in Gensoukyou got real organized,t hings would fall apart.

Basically, for the setting men don't do anything in particular.

>> No.15394580

Also Rinnosuke wasn't written as a place holder for the viewer to fantasize. He is his own character and has at least some depth on it.

>> No.15394584


>> No.15394880


>> No.15396416
File: 195 KB, 600x778, 96944e3861ae318bbfc28ff69aa73fd14a9e93501c5fd0f7fcbbaba2dbda45b6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yes, depth. Kourin is interesting. Consider what we learn about him in CoLA.

On the surface, he seems like a smart guy. His age, along with being a father/mentor figure to the girls, comes with an expectation of knowledge and wisdom. His involvement with artifacts from the outside world lends him an air of mystery, as he's surrounded by things nobody in Gensoukyou understands. And to top it off, his ability to name and describe any object just by touching it makes him seem like a veritable walking encyclopedia. So that's how the girls see him; as much as they may give him a hard time, they do look up to him as an adult and as someone who knows a lot of things they don't. They trust and believe him for the most part, and when he goes on a monologue, they listen.

However, as the series goes on, we the reader discover another side of him, one that should be obvious if you think about it. Who is Kourin, actually? He's the son of unnamed and likely unremarkable parents, born and raised in Gensoukyou, with an ability that led him to a life of collecting and selling trinkets. He's never been to the outside world (well, for more than a couple seconds). He doesn't even live on the mountain, as part of the tengu/kappa society. Actually, he's a total bumpkin. And remember, his ability can only give him the name and function of an object, not even how to use it, let alone its underlying principle of operation. He doesn't actually understand most of the stuff he sells, he can just bullshit about it because that's what he's good at, thanks to his ability. Yes, he does also read some of the books and magazines he collects, but those are random bits and pieces, not enough to really develop an understanding of any subject. He's not a scholar.

And that leads to my point. Kourin isn't a scholar; in fact, he's as ignorant as anyone else in Gensoukyou. It just so happens he has the perfect set of tools to appear smart, so that's what he does. You can see this in multiple chapters, but one in particular that I remember is the one about the fossil.

The girls come to him with a fossil of some huge creature, probably a dinosaur or mammoth, and ask him about it. He starts spinning this tale about how it can't possibly be a normal bone, because the creature would have to be way too big, and there's nothing that big in the world. Instead, he says, it's the bone of some ordinary small creature that became inhabited by a god, making it grow to such a huge size. He goes on and on, giving a fairly convincing explanation. But we the reader know that that's obvious bullshit. We know what fossils are, and that creatures that big did and still do exist. But because neither elephants nor whales nor the study of paleontology exist in Gensoukyou, Kourin doesn't know any of that. He was faced with something he didn't understand at all, and used his vague knowledge of myth and religion to create a convincing explanation for the girls.

That's who he really is. A man who has (at least) two nice young girls who look up to him, and so tries desperately to live up to their expectations, putting on a front of being wise and knowledgeable when he actually probably knows less than them. Just a guy trying hard to be cool.

What you want to take away from that is entirely up to you, but yeah, there's some depth there.

>> No.15396473

I think people use him to justify their hatred for Reimu which to me is quite undeserved. He broke the rules so she punished him. Simple as that. I mean, there is no restrictions on hating 2hus but people use him as a sorta "objective" proof that Reimu is a horrible person. This is just my observation though. I don't even like Reimu that much but the discussions on threads about him is often about bashing Reimu. I feel those threads will be worse if some cute girl turns into a Youkai and Reimu doesn't give her the same treatment though this is probably because I'm hoping for a depressing ending where Reimu kills a youkai Kosuzu.

>> No.15396481

I actually liked how in the fossil story Reimu's instinct actually let her instantly guess what the fossil was and it was right from our perspective.

>A man who has (at least) two nice young girls who look up to him, and so tries desperately to live up to their expectations, putting on a front of being wise and knowledgeable when he actually probably knows less than them. Just a guy trying hard to be cool.
He isn't near as ignorant as you make him sound at the very least the man is able to think for himself even if he is very mistaken and even then there have been the occasion where he has been correct.

I do remember one of the later stories having Kourin openly praising Yukari's wisdom and knowledge and being someone worth learning from. So at the very least Kourin does have the humility to understand when someone knows more than him.

>His age, along with being a father/mentor figure to the girls
He is really more of a older brother figure than a father figure and the girls treat him so.

>> No.15396971


Don't forget to mention that he can still craft some powerful magic items, despite not completely understanding how things work. I mean, he crafted Marisa's hakkero and prepared Reimu's gohei.

And, if I even remember correctly, the usually lax Reimu actually uses honorifics when using his name. About the only other person who gets that is Kosuzu.

>> No.15397121
File: 942 KB, 555x1500, e1ad9dbf208c31e5ae9ffa2bf2ed332e69000da8c4c3b3fd46d9e136afa70181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to make light of him. He's certainly not stupid; in fact, he's a pretty good thinker, it's just that he has a limited knowledge base to work with. That's not his fault, either, it's just the way things are in the place and time where he lives. And I didn't mean to imply that his pretending to know everything in front of the girls is a bad thing, either. On the contrary, he's trying to do a good thing by not letting them down, which is perfectly reasonable and perhaps even admirable. He's not trying to delude himself into actually believing he knows everything.

>Don't forget to mention that he can still craft some powerful magic items, despite not completely understanding how things work.
To be fair, that's just because in Gensoukyou, things like that work the way you believe they work, because magic. You can't give him too much credit there. But yes, he's certainly handy.

>> No.15397467

This, more or less. Reimu is abrasive, lazy, and kind of a dick but very powerful and dedicated to preserving the balance. She's an easy target.

People also seem to act like the fact that he was a human excuses him breaking the rules and commitying a taboo. You can be a powerful human and not take shit from youkai without taking the idiotic route he did.

>> No.15397573

>things like that work the way you believe they work, because magic
Plus not being a human/associated with the Human Village, he isn't subject to laws that would restrict his access or fabrication of magical items.

>> No.15397641

He's the closest thing Touhou has ever had to an actual villian.

>> No.15397737
File: 99 KB, 500x500, 1233330488540.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If you don't mind me asking, what's your favorite Rinnosuke pairing? After reading CoLA, I think I'd have to favor sakuya and rinnosuke

>> No.15397796

>And, if I even remember correctly, the usually lax Reimu actually uses honorifics when using his name.
Now you mention that looking back on the novels it's true, Reimu is a lot less abrasive than she is depicted in other appearances when it comes to Rinnosuke, oddly quite polite.

>About the only other person who gets that is Kosuzu
She doesn't know Kosuzu too well and I think she is considered quite importantish? At the very least Kosuzu is good friends with Akyuu who is the closest thing to nobility in Gensokyo so it's probably more out of neccessity.

>> No.15397870
File: 240 KB, 567x800, b083219ca3080f7d92ce009763d5a2c1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's haram.

But if you're into that kind of thing, then yeah, definitely Sakuya.

>> No.15403688

I wonder if ZUN would change his mind some day and add a guy to the games.

He said in an interview on MoF that he didn't think Sanae would be playable since she had a god-like ability and look how that turned out.

>> No.15403807

Even if he did, I can only see them taking supportive roles like Unzan is to Ichirin (putting aside the "Ichirin is Unzan's hitbox" meme).
Danmaku is considered a woman's sport anyway, so I don't see any man participating for a long time.

>> No.15403858

Considering ZUN's reasoning for not doing it in the first place, the only way it would be likely to happen is if the character were a trap. That doesn't really seem like the kind of thing he would do, though.

>"Ichirin is Unzan's hitbox" meme
It's not a meme, that was something ZUN himself said. And anyway, it's true, Ichirin exists totally out of necessity. She's not even a proper species of youkai; he primarily wanted to make a nyuudou, then just called her a nyuudo-controlling youkai. She's the fourth most half-assed character in the series after Hotate and the Whokumo sisters.

>> No.15403873

Well Myouren was in the works before Byakuren took his place.

I think that Unzan was clearly a replacement for Myouren as ZUN's idea for an old guy. Just with original Ichirin as his "hitbox" to make it more palatable.

I think if you use a shota or bishounen as a real boss I think it could work and not go against the Touhou and danmaku aesthetic.

At any rate, in regards to stuff ZUN said he might do or was going to and didn't, he simply has a lot of ideas that get discarded during the development phase.

>Ichirin exists totally out of necessity, etc.
Originally, yes (although I always liked her regardless). However, she gained a lot of development through SoPm and the fighting games. She's fun.

>> No.15403974

Yeah, not that I dislike her, it's just a fact that she was created for purely practical reasons and that not a lot of though went into her initial appearance. I do like that she appeared multiple times and got a bit of development.

>> No.15404372

Huh. I always thought he meant that as a joke. Sheesh, I probably should've watched that interview again instead of speaking from memories.

Speaking of working in a male character, how viable would it be if ZUN used any established male characters? As in, start with familiar characters before throwing in new ones.
For example, no one (that I've seen, at least) ever really mind that Youki actually exists, so he could be acceptable. Thoughts?

>> No.15404683

An old retired swordsman explores the fringes of Gensokyo and "other worlds." I could see it working.

>> No.15404716

Fortune Teller has TWO threads

>> No.15405221


>> No.15405261
File: 152 KB, 1016x531, 02b1101c7d9e85e11dc13519489b703c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

He needs more desu

>> No.15405453

Rinnosuke isn't a bad character at all. Most Touhou fans don't care about him, but he still did some pretty cool things, such as make Marisa the mini-hakkero and modify Reimu'a gohei.

The only annoying thing is how the fandom feel entitled to ship him with literally every other character (only Sakuya and probably Keine would make sense, honestly), but that's just a fanon thing to try and ignore. Canonically, he seems like he'd want to stay single. He's really old, too.

But yeah, not a bad guy at all.

>> No.15405583

I think it's something people were thinking, but didn't really run with until ZUN confirmed it.


Unless I missed it I don't think they ever use the term "hitbox". He essentially confirms the thought, however.

I thought there was another interview or something where he talks about it, but I might be thinking about others paraphrasing this one.

>> No.15413607

mima have some words for you

>> No.15413647

Nah, two is fine.
He can get one for each half.