/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

I want to start playing Touhou, but I don't know what game should I play first, any protip?

[Dust of Osiris !U4ZKgLjqPw No.]

>>any protip?
to kill the cyberdemon shoot it until it dies

[Anonymous No.]

Dodonpachi.

[Anonymous No.]

Perfect Cherry Blossom, see how far you can get on Hard.
Or if you want a challenge, start with Shoot the Bullet.

[Anonymous No.]

go IN or PCB

[Anonymous No.]

PCB or SA. Don't start with IN because it'll fuck up your death bombing.
I don't recommend starting with EoSD because I did, and I think it resulted in me being good at dodging random bullets but terrible at patterns, and the newer games are more pattern intensive.

[Anonymous No.]

Search /rs/ for Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, Perfect Cherry Blossom, and Imperishable Night.

Most people recommend starting with one of these. I say PCB personally.

[Anonymous of Russian Federation No.]

>>1395264
Shirou? Is that you?

[Anonymous No.]

Not OP but here's a stupid question: In the pre MoF games you can select the number of lives you start with. So what difference does it make how many lives you start at (Obviously it would seem picking 5 lives would be the optimal choice)? Does it have any drawbacks (scorewise/unlocking extra etc)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395323
Hurts your score big time. Only penalty for it, so that's probably why he removed it in the later games.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1395323
Life penalty * 0.05
or something like that

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395323
Score is reduced on stage clear, complete loss of bragging rights if you 1cc.
Only reason to do it is to clear a stage for practice and can't do it with all the continues you have. If this happens anywhere before stage 6 hard you have bigger problems.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

Start from Mystic Square and go up from there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395275
this, EoSD is shit

[Anonymous No.]

IN, then SA

[Anonymous No.]

All of them, at the same time. Then you avoid getting any bad habits from the quirks of particular games and become a well-rounded grazer.

The fact that this sort of thing is deep enough that well-roundedness is a valid concept makes me wish I had learned to play something more socially acceptable, like Go, or Chess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395370
>EoSD is shit

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395560
>PCB easier than IN

No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395560

PCB is by no means easier than Imperishable Night. PCB should be number 1 or 2

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1395560
Difficulty and music is relative to the difficulty level you are playing and personal taste respectively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395370
>BAWWW I CANT SEE MY HITBOX AND IT DOESN'T HAVE THE LITTLE SIGN THAT TELLS ME WHERE THE ENEMY IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN.

[Anonymous No.]

I always found MoF the easiest by far but I guess it just depends on which game you start with.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1395560
pooshlmer chart made by one guy in the middle of a discussion.

Rating SA 1 just because he lacks training, not to talk about the music,
and rating MoF system 4 and SA 2 even though they use the same engine is stupid. I know what he means, but "system" is just wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395637
yeah "system" could mean all sorts of things; bomb system, scoring system, etc. Regardless, it's a matter of taste just as much as music is.

PCB has the hardest Easy Mode and EoSD has the hardest Lunatic Mode, but Normal and Hard (which are the difficulties I'd figure most people are going to be playing on) are completely debatable. Plus character choices can greatly affect the difficulty too.

From my observations I think anyone who starts with a game other than EoSD is always going to find it one of the hardest, while if you start with it then it won't seem nearly as bad (below Lunatic difficulty anyway)

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395714
>I don't recommend starting with EoSD because I did, and I think it resulted in me being good at dodging random bullets but terrible at patterns, and the newer games are more pattern intensive.
I swear, starting with EoSD ruined me. I can't beat stage 4 with infinite continues, but I did a practice run of stage 5 EoSD hard with no misses.

[Anonymous No.]

IN deathbombing is worthless because it uses 2 bombs.

PCB is the best Touhou game, with the most complex scoring system, no unfair gimmicky spellcards, and no fucking spellcard practice (worst feature ever). It is however the easiest if you're just playing for survival, because of SakuyaA and borders.

Also Dodonpachi is better than every Touhou, and emulated perfectly in MAME.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395729
That's because stage 4 is harder (Patchu is easy though, so you'll only lose lives in the stage part and to Ko-akuma).

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395755
>IN deathbombing is worthless because it uses 2 bombs.
No, deathbombing uses 1 bomb, last spell, which you can only use after the deathbomb window uses 2. But even that doesn't matter because you get a fuckton of bombs in that game

>>1395752
Perhaps, but there's no way stage 5 hard EoSD is supposed to be easier than stage 4 normal SA. Well, I haven't played SA for a few months, but as I recall the stage itself wasn't that bad, but Satori was a bitch.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1395755
Spellcard Practice would have been cool if it only had Last Words. But then it wouldn't been called Spellcard Practice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395560
>SA music 5
>SA 5
>5
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395591
The only difficulty level that matters is Lunatic. If you're good enough to play the lower difficulties for score well then you're good enough to clear Lunatic.

[Anonymous No.]

>DoDonPachi
Or ESP Ra.De. if you really need little girls, and it’s a much nicer starting difficulty than DDP - it’s a stupid game to play for score, but so is touhou. Mentioning Cave is a sure-fire way to turn a thread to shit or put it on page 10, though.

I’d recommend starting with MoF, though I'm talking from a gameplay perspective not "best music," or "prettiest patterns” as judged by people who don’t play shmups. It has the best difficulty balance, basically forces you not to develop shitty bombing and continuing habits and is a solid all-rounder. If you want to play an older one first go with EoSD, it’s pretty raw but better than starting off with PCB and all its silly scoring system, repetitive stages and bleh bosses that keep using the same pattern with some minor tweaks. IN is just too easy and will make you rely on auto-bombing rather than predicting a death (which is disaster for all other shmups), and SA is nails.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395841
But ESPRade gets super hard at stage four ;__;

Scratch all that, play Dangun Feveron!

FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAHH!

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395841
Dodonpachi (first loop) is easier than ESPrade.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395846
>>1395856
By "starting difficulty" I meant the first 3 stages.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1395841
>basically forces you not to develop shitty bombing

What do you mean by that? As far as I know, MoF encourages bombing like a bitch whenever you stumble upon a tough spellcard. That said, I think SA is the one where the bombing system is the most punishing. Especially for MariAli.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395841
>Mof
>forces you not to develop shitty bombing

What?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395841
>MoF
>forces you not to develop shitty bombing

What?

[Anonymous No.]

Dear op,

Touhoufags are rejects of rejects. Meaning the weeaboos of /a/ and the stoners of /v/ didn't even want them. To become a Touhoufag is to give into peer pressure. They keep talking about Touhou as if it's a legendary drug. But once you actually play the game, you'll be shocked to find out that the games don't have a plot. And the only thing worse than Touhou's plot is Touhou's art and character designs. ZUN (the creator of Touhou) obviously doesn't know the basics of anatomy. It's almost as if ZUN is stuck in a permanent amateur hour. Plus the loser is a 42 year old virgin to boot. But anyway, getting back to the games. The music is almost as repetitive as the gameplay. Though I'll admit the music is surprisingly good, coming from a man who is stuck in a permanent amateur hour. The character personalities that the Touhoufags fell in love with was created by the fans; not by ZUN. For example, the fan created Cirno is a immature/dumb tomboy. The ZUN Cirno rarely talks in the games. The only hint at her being immature in the games was a one sentence character description (where ZUN says she enjoys freezing frogs).

To make this much simpler, I'll just tell you the truth behind the Touhou faggotry. Touhou characters are "artless." Read the definition of the word "artless." ZUN apparently fails so much at story telling that he managed to create character who the fans felt compelled to give a plot to. Here I'll give you an example. Want to know why you don't see hundreds of doujins about Snake from Metal Gear. It's because Snake's personality is so well done that the fanbase feels no need to contribute to his personality. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[Anonymous No.]

Good luck killing the final boss with no power.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395888
continued:

As a result of Touhou's characters being artless, there's endless possibilities of original content. I however disagree with using the artless Touhou characters as templates. In my opinion, people should create their own characters. Touhou's fanbase consist of leechers who leech off the progress of the previous leechers. How hard is it to create 100% original characters? Just like ZUN, the Touhoufags are stuck in a permanent amateur hour.

P.S. Touhou takes place in the same brainless setting that Inuyasha takes place in. "Oh noes, another demon, Yōkai, Witch, or demon has come to take over the world! Hopefully the generic shrine maiden will come to the rescue! XD"

Shitty setting is shitty.

Touhou is a mediocre shoot em up. The only good thing to come from the Touhou franchise is the doujin music and pictures. The games are boring/repetitive.

A next generation gamer (such as yourself) wouldn't be able to appreciate Touhou. Our generation grew up with good games like Zelda Ocarina of Time, Metroid, Castlevania, and Metal Gear. Primitive, 2bit gameplay like Touhou will make your head explode. Let me put it bluntly. If you have trouble falling asleep at night, Touhou is the game for you.

[Anonymous No.]

But the dolls in DDP:DOJ had amazing back-story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395888
>>1395896
Your copypasta. I'll eat it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395896
I asked this the last time this copypasta was posted and didn't see a response.
>If you have trouble falling asleep at night, Touhou is the game for you.
Why the hell are those related?

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>1395877
>>As far as I know, MoF encourages bombing like a bitch whenever you stumble upon a tough spellcard.

You're gonna have a terrible score if you do this.

But yes, stockpiling bombs worked in the other TH games, and it also works in MoF.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395915
Touhou's repetitive gameplay will put you to sleep. Shoot the bullet is the only exception to this.

[Anonymous No.]

I just played some ESPRade to test it out (never seriously played it before), and got to the stage 3 boss. I can get to stage 1-5 on DDP, and I think ESPRade is harder. Also ESPRade has way too much slowdown. DDP has some, but it's not anywhere near as annoying as ESPRade.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395896
> good games like Zelda Ocarina of Time
*chuckle*

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395929
Oh. that's the joke? I find the gameplay to be about as far removed from being "put to sleep" as possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395906
I'm just preventing the fad effect. Remember how much people got tricked into watching Lucky Star?

If the op is asking a question about Touhou, he deserves the right to know what he is getting into. A biased Touhoufag such as yourself could never give him an honest answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395942
Really? Most of the Touhous are just borefests you can beat with your eyes closed, like Phantasm.

[Anonymous No.]

>It's because Snake's personality is so well done that the fanbase feels no need to contribute to his personality.
>Snake's personality is so well done

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395945
Lucky Star was awesome. Best anime of 2007 or whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395945
Why should people be "tricked into watching Lucky Star"?
They can watch it because they want it, as I did. And I don't regret that.
The same of Touhou. You played it and you liked it? Good! Come along!
You played it and didn't like it? That's, like, your opinion, man.
You didn't play it and you whine about it anyway? Get the fuck out.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1395916
Putting the score apart and supposing you are playing to 1cc, MoF bombs are kind of overpowered, and sometimes bombing doesn't have any cons like when there are lots of fairies that leave power items on screen. In SA the max power is 4 and most bombs are more balanced since they don't suck away 3/4 of the boss health while clearing all the bullets on screen, which is good I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395896
cool story bro

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395942
You're a lot different from me then. Touhou puts me to sleep. The following is Touhou's blueprint:

For 5 minutes you have to scroll past an easy level. Then a boss appears and the game's difficulty becomes decent.

Now this would be perfectly fine if Touhou only had 5 levels. But it doesn't.

Shoot the bullet is the only decent Touhou game because it allows you to select the levels. Perfect cherry blossom, on the other hand, will have you snoring before you reach the boss.

[Anonymous No.]

>It's because Snake's personality is so well done that the fanbase feels no need to contribute to his personality.
>Snake's personality is so well done

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395915
>>1395940
>>1395942
>>1395950
>>1395960
>>1395961
>>1395969
Dear butthurt Touhoufags, please mind your business. Last time I checked. I was addressing the op. Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395979
Sorry Sir, but I just couldn't help intervening when I noticed two factual inaccuracies in your post:

1. Lucky Star isn't bad.
2. Ocarina of Time isn't good.

Thank you, and please do not forget this the next time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395970
Now try getting every point item at full value. Touhou stages are boring only because you're playing them wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395970
How can you snore through Capital CIty of Flowers in the Sky? And every song after it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395970
Stop playing easy mode. Stage 1 is boring, stage 2 and everything after is not. Stage 4 or 5 and after is hell.

Another alternative is to play PoFV. the early stages in story mode lead to quick suicides, but it's possible to get REALLY hectic round 1s. I once managed to get to 999990 combo in stage 1. Got 10 million points from the stage clear.

>>1395945
People aren't tricked into playing or watching anything unless they're pathetic. You can be tricked into TRYING something, but unless it's goatse or another shock site, it's not the same thing.

And you haven't mentioned the POSITIVE side of touhou being popular. It gets translations. It gets replays. It gets game mechanics explained. I don't play Seihou because I can't fucking figure out what is going on. I think I just got hit, but I didn't lose a life? And what are all the fire powers? What do all these fancy gauges mean?
Touhou is popular so you get tons of stuff explaining how to play. There's no manual because 90% of us can't read japanese, so you HAVE to rely on fans if you can't figure it out yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

Why can't we all just agree that Touhou is a mediocre game and the fandom is a plague on all of mankind?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396004
There's no one game called Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396004
Because no one cares about your opinions

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396010
>>1396011
same person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396004
Noone here is saying the fandom is bad, I think.

>>1396003
Why not? I find it a common courtesy.

[Anonymous No.]

I played some more ESPRade, and I conclude that is it is much worse than Dodonpachi and slightly worse than Touhou games. Controls aren't as responsive (2 frames of input lag), hitboxs are harder to locate, backgrounds are too busy. The patterns aren't any harder, but the game is harder because there is more annoyance to deal with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396004
Because you would only agree with yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396019
Well, I find it more fun than DDP, but the best Cave game is really Dangun Feveron, give it a shot! (HURR DURR I MADE A FUNNY GIVE IT A SHOT LOLOLOLOL)

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396019
esprade isn't really so much a bullet-hell game, though (unlike the espgaluda games, which definitely are.) It's sort of heading towards the bullet-hell side of the spectrum, but it's not there yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396025
Dangun Feveron is too fast for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395964
This is only true when you’re at a certain level of competence. If you bomb towards the start of a boss fight because they are too hard, the lack of power and points are going to lead to greater problems in the short or long term.

But yes, you get more bombs and are supposed to “bomb for points” in certain spots during the stages.

I should've been clearer with my statement, but you've got to be bold on these boards. My point was kind of irrelevant to the advantages and disadvantages of the bombs themselves, but more because the player has to make a define “I want to bomb now” decision, rather than relying on the counter-bomb (which of course exists to some degree, but not to the extreme of other titles).

>>1396019
>2 frames of input lag
Oh, you're that guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396025
Best Cave game - Mushihime-sama. Admittedly, I played it because the name made me think "EXTRAVAGANZA" but it turned out to be really good anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1395772
I remember sometimes I hit the bomb button before the shot actually hit me and it still used the last spell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396054
Yes, but I remember plenty of times in other games where I hit the bomb button before getting hit and I still lost a life.

Remember, the window is very small, and Reimu doesn't get a deathbomb time extend in IN like she does in PCB, only last word time extend.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1396029
I still think SA is the best game to learn such a behavior. Well, SA is my favorite game overall so I'm kinda biased, even when some things bother me, like Malice power item drops when killed. Talking about SA, does somebody has the same problem with replays at stage 6, where you die at Okuu's first spellcard for some reason?

[Anonymous No.]

It’s not an opinion shared by many, but I think Progear is the best Cave title you can find on MAME. I love the Laputa-esque graphical style and scoring system. It starts off quite calm but unless you learn the bullet cancelling system you’re going to have trouble later, and the second loop is diabolically hard (not that I can access it without save states, but I can 1cc).

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396074
I don’t disagree with you there, but SA is probably not very good for a new player due to its difficulty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396098
>but SA is probably not very good for a new player due to its difficulty.
That's the point.

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1396074
I never had power problems with Malice team. It's just "don't die". With goods use of bombs (and/or skill/luck), power won't be a problem even if you die (once) during a boss fight.

Yes. Replays are buggy in SA.

>>1396098
Any normal person without experience in shmups will die using all continues regardless which game he tries, but in MoF or SA, there are unlimited continues. That encourages them to clear every stage unless they're endlessly stuck at Orin (or Kanako in MoF respectively).
So
What do you don't like/is bad about touhou (better in other shmups) and how would you improve it?

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1396121
The problem (my problem) is that if you deplete your power in a boss fight, you are fucked. Since with Malice if you die with power depleted you only get 1/4 of max power while the other teams get 1/2, and that kinda sucks since you do pathetic damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396121
It needs more spaceships, lasers, explosions and 80's synth rock

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396136
Seihou?

[Anonymous No.]

>>1396136

[Anonymous of Austria No.]

>>1396135
I get 3.20 normally and 3.33 with Alice.

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1396201
I'm getting 2.41-2.50...

[None !KYON.wwv9s No.]

>>1396229
Oh, it seems that you get less power in Practice Start for some reason.