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13634834 No.13634834 [Reply] [Original]

One of the few VNs Ive played is World End Economica. Minus a few scenes, I felt that it was pretty good. In fact it inspired me to not take the normalfag route and make serious attempts at taking full advantage of capitalism. I wanted to know what the rest of the board thought of it.

>> No.13634993

first i thought i was about economics, but someone told me it's just another dumb anime story
and there is only a machine translated version around, no thanks

>> No.13635270

>>13634993
That feeling when I seem to be the only one who loves this VN to pieces. Fuck all. I'm going to be a richfag because of this VN giving me perspective.

>> No.13635281

>>13634834
>taking full advantage of capitalism
top kek
Capitalism is about how capital take advantage of majority, not an opposite.

Didn't read that thought but given your statement most likely not worth it.

>> No.13635285

>>13635281
Oh, no I just felt inspired by MC-kuns ambitions, and how he decided he had to raise capital through the market to get it done

>> No.13635287

>>13635285
Eh.. have fun trying

>> No.13635293

>>13635285
If you ever learn japanese give this a try, it's also about economics and much better than WEE
https://vndb.org/v9996

>> No.13635295

>>13635287
I will. Until I read the VN (it's kinetic), I just felt I was going to be the average person who went to uni, ending up in that middle class debt for the rest of my life. I thought the rich were just some greedy bastards who sucked everyone else dry. But it all depends on what you do with the money.

>> No.13635298

>>13635293
There has got to be a better way to do this than learning Japanese.

>> No.13635315

>>13635295
>I thought the rich were just some greedy bastards who sucked everyone else dry.
Exactly. Except they do it for generations and do everything to save status quo, dont necessarily indulge in child eating on daily basis.
Eh, makes me happy my piece of shit country actually offer free education.

>> No.13635327

>>13635298
Read an actual text book about economics and no anime story. If you don't even know how to price things, you might as well sell meme videos like that Tyrone guy to get rich.

>> No.13635332

>>13635327
Actually that VN I linked is pretty good at introducing simple economics. But that would require japanese so yeah.

>> No.13635377

>>13634993
The first episode is a simple, great introduction to the workings of the stock market, and it presents some fun examples to watch by the way of the main character doing trades.

Second episode changes perspective a bit, and I don't know about the third episode yet, so maybe you're right about it turning into something other than economics.

Also, it's not just a machine translation; the episodes are being translated by sekaiproject. The first one's already out on steam and a rough but complete draft is already available for backers for the second episode.

>>13634834
I think it's a very nice series so far! It's a bit of a shame the focus has switched on the second episode, and I think Eleanor gets maybe a little *too* much screen time compared to the other characters, but the writing's excellent and it managed to keep me engaged.

Also it feels kinda budget, could've used a bit more CG's. Though I realize it must be hard to produce so many context-specific ones and not a lot of VN's do it, so I'm willing to give it a pass on that.

>> No.13635423

>>13635377
Sekai project is as bad as your average edited machine translation but they charge you money for it.

>> No.13635425

>>13635377
And what knowledge did you gained from this VN about the stock market?

>> No.13635464

>>13635270
I love it too, don't worry. The ending was fantastic as well.

>> No.13635481

>>13635425
Literature is more about opening your eyes to new things than it is about actually being the best learning resource in its class.

Not him.

>> No.13635566

>>13634834
This is about capitalism but the game publisher likes begging for money on Kickstarter.

>> No.13635572

>>13635423
Well, my standards must be very low then, because I thought it was all fine and understandable. I'm not a Japanese guru though, so who knows?

>>13635425
It will teach you about bear and bull markets, how unpredictable the stock market is as a whole, momentum trading and margin trading, along with the risks the latter entails. Again, it will not go any more than knee-deep into those concepts, but it's fun to watch the main character get cocky about them.

Later I would go on to make an investopedia simulator account and subscribe to their newsletter to learn more about those things, and it turns out that investing (well, fake investing) is kinda fun!

Not in-depth, but a stepping stone for greater things, like >>13635481 said.

>> No.13635601

>>13635572
The translation was honestly pretty bad, and there were quite a few typos and shit. Still, I enjoyed the story.

>> No.13636051

>>13635327
I do know the basics of Economics, though I dont know how to movie beyond beginners Micro and beginners Macro

>>13635332
I am very interested in the VN, I like a good story. Especially so if it includes economics in some form.

>> No.13636057

>>13635481
This is OP, and OP is glad this anon gets it.

>> No.13636268

So this actually was capitalist propaganda?
That's disgusting, but I guess it balances out a medium dominated by progressive ideals.

>> No.13636412
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13636412

Just don't invest in anime.

>> No.13636597

>>13636268
>capitalist propaganda
You are currently using capitalist products and services to be here, anon.

>> No.13636730

>>13636597
No shit. I don't remember having a choice, though. Besides, economic systems distribute things, they don't create them.

>> No.13636751

>>13636730
> I don't remember having a choice, though.
There's the choice to not use them. You can always live without depending on a capitalist system, it's just a shitty life.
>Besides, economic systems distribute things, they don't create them.
This isn't really true. Economic systems are directly and intrinsically connected to production, both in terms of what, how and when it is produced.

>> No.13636784

>>13636751
>There's the choice to not use them. You can always live without depending on a capitalist system, it's just a shitty life.
No, you literally starve. Food is also processed and distributed through the capitalist system. Suggesting death or a shitty life as an alternative is insane.

>Economic systems are directly and intrinsically connected to production, both in terms of what, how and when it is produced.
I didn't say production, I say creation. The research of the ARPANET (predecessor to the Internet) was funded by the US Department of Defense. Capitalism only went in when the idea was well researched and it was near the time to mass produce it. That's expected, since their goal is to maximize their profits through mass-production of existing ideas and research funding doesn't always yield results.

In an hypothetical world with a different economic system, the Internet, or a similar communication technology, would have been invented anyway, and would have eventually reached us anyway, through that economic system. But just as we didn't have a choice in our lives, inventors didn't have a choice either.

Saying that because things happened to be invented in a society under a capitalist system we have to support capitalism is a fallacious argument and reeks of Stockholm syndrome.

>> No.13636836

>>13636784
>death
Those damn paleolithic and neolithic capitalist fucks!
>creation
Tell me what else would push production. And progress forward? Hardly anything we use would be a necessity under a non-capitalist society. Why would anyone change something that gets the job done if not for capitalism?

>> No.13636869

Can't believe we got some anti-capitalist otakus here.

Capitalist is the premier drive behind otaku culture.

>> No.13636890

>>13636869
And I meant otaku*

>> No.13636902

>reading economics vns

There are tons of books written by self made millionaires out there. There's also a ton of Economics text books on the net, if it interests you that much you should. IF you really want Economics go play Wall Street Kid on a NES emulator.

>> No.13636916

>>13636902
Who are you quoting?

And what's with playing an old console game when you can play actual economics simulator like Capitalism?

>> No.13636951

>>13636784
>The research of the ARPANET (predecessor to the Internet) was funded by the US Department of Defense. Capitalism only went in when the idea was well researched and it was near the time to mass produce it. That's expected, since their goal is to maximize their profits through mass-production of existing ideas and research funding doesn't always yield results.
The English military produced the first computer, took fucking capitalism to make it to the computer that is today.

>> No.13636965

>>13636836
>Those damn paleolithic and neolithic capitalist fucks!
What?

>Tell me what else would push production. And progress forward? Hardly anything we use would be a necessity under a non-capitalist society. Why would anyone change something that gets the job done if not for capitalism?
There are three false assumptions here, one is assuming capitalism promotes progress, two is assuming only capitalism promotes progress, and three is assuming other economic systems wouldn't get things produced when they're not "necessary" for our survival, which implies we're some kind of money robots and that profit is the only reason why we get up in the morning every day.

>>13636869
Read the last two paragraphs of >>13636784 again.
Besides, doujin culture is an example of a non-capitalist "drive" behind otaku culture.

>>13636951
Read the last two paragraphs of >>13636784 again.

>> No.13636972

>>13636965
>In an hypothetical world with a different economic system, the Internet, or a similar communication technology, would have been invented anyway, and would have eventually reached us anyway, through that economic system. But just as we didn't have a choice in our lives, inventors didn't have a choice either.
You mean this?

It's proven wrong considering the Soviet have never advanced the internet the way the americans did, despite that shit being open source since the 80s and 90s.

>> No.13636978

>>13636965
>Besides, doujin culture is an example of a non-capitalist "drive" behind otaku culture.
Doujin culture is still for profit though.

It costs money instead of being fucking free, the western modding scene is less profit-driven than doujin.

>> No.13637045

>>13636902
There's several books about whaling out there, it doesn't stop moby dick's infodumps being interesting to read through and learn about it.

>> No.13637052

>>13636972
Mentioning the Soviet union always leads to retarded discussions because a lot of shit was happening back then that distorted the economy of every country in the world. The Soviet Union was a mix of state capitalism and state socialism which I don't support either, but even then they managed to get the US scared because they got so advanced in space exploration, which is an example of progress.

>>13636978
Capitalism doesn't only mean profit. It's profit through the private ownership of the means of production and extraction of surplus value of subordinate workers that defines capitalism. None of this applies to doujin markets. Because it's a market it doesn't mean it's capitalist; there are non-capitalist market economic systems.

Doujin creators get all the value of their work, they don't privately own production and they don't extract work. Doujin circles are more like market cooperatives.

>> No.13637063

>>13637052
>but even then they managed to get the US scared because they got so advanced in space exploration, which is an example of progress.
But in the end the US outspent and outraced the Soviet Union, we got people on the moon unlike them. This is not possible without our pseudo-free market capitalism.

>> No.13637070

>>13637052
Hold on a second here:
>Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned
This is the definition of capitalism based on Wikipedia.

Based on this definition, doujin creators are indeed capitalists because their means of productions (in this case, paper, ink, computer) are privately owned.

>> No.13637185

>>13637063
What's more, Russia was motivated by appearences, wanting to sell the idea of communism, and appear better than the US. Not that this is airtight, but isn't that a capitalist principle? Improve image more than the competition so more people would buy?

>> No.13637188

>>13637185
It's more of the fact their communist is a pipe dream because they lack the technology for that to happen, one that cannot possibly be achieved without capitalism where innovation isn't state-owned.

>> No.13637200

>>13636965
>There are three false assumptions here, one is assuming capitalism promotes progress, two is assuming only capitalism promotes progress, and three is assuming other economic systems wouldn't get things produced when they're not "necessary" for our survival, which implies we're some kind of money robots and that profit is the only reason why we get up in the morning every day.

I sure as HELL know that if I didn't have to work to survive I wouldn't willing work or would at least take an easier job assuming not working wasn't an option if the pay was the same. I think that applies to pretty much most people.

>> No.13637292

>>13637063
That doesn't invalidate the point. Russia was underdeveloped and poor as shit before the USSR, especially compared to the US. The fact that the US outraced them doesn't invalidate their successes, and even though I don't support the USSR at all I'm open minded enough to realize they had some impressive achievements under their dictatorship.

>>13637070
>doujin creators are indeed capitalists because their means of productions (in this case, paper, ink, computer) are privately owned
No. Under this context, that's personal property, not private property. They're using their own property to produce their own work.
An example scenario of a circle with private means of production would be if they had a boss who owned all the computers, ink, the workplace, etc. and he profited from most of the value created by a group of artists who don't own any of these things in exchange for a wage.
Doujin circles don't work like this.

The computer you own and use to draw and sell your picturebook is personal property.
The computer you own and let a worker (or workers) use to draw and sell your picturebook (from which you mostly profit from) is private property.

>>13637185
>Russia was motivated by appearences, wanting to sell the idea of communism, and appear better than the US.
Whoa, I thought you were talking about the US for a moment there.
Let me remind you that NASA funding plummeted right after the US government successfully showed to the world they were superior.

>>13637188
>communist
>state-owned
These two things have nothing to do with each other. From Wikipedia:
>communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production, absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.

Note "absence of [...] state".

Nazis called it national "socialism", the US calls it "free" market, and the USSR called it
"communism".

>> No.13637360

>>13637200
I don't see how what I said contradicts that. We want money because in this system it improves our lives, not because we want money. Money is a means. Under some economic systems life improvement and self-realization is still achieved with money but without the need for the capitalistic accumulation and private property (which is undeniably inefficient), and other systems even make money completely unnecessary. They only change the means, they don't and can't remove motivations that are inherent to us all.

>> No.13637453

>>>/pol/

>> No.13644143

>>13634834
Normal fag route?

>> No.13645605

>>13637292
>personal property, not private property
>your entire post.

Please, stop posting.

>> No.13645619

>>13637292
>The fact that the US outraced them doesn't invalidate their successes, and even though I don't support the USSR at all I'm open minded enough to realize they had some impressive achievements under their dictatorship.
It does prove that the US has the better system, and unless you are illogical, you don't choose the lesser one, economic-wise.

>> No.13645627

>>13635572
>how unpredictable the stock market is as a whole

You know, as a trader, I really cant digest this guy's stuff. Along with Billionaire Girl, they make me kinda cringe in a real subtle way.
Its like the author just read a book and maybe paper traded for a few weeks and then decided to write about being a profitable trader(in Billionaire Girls case, then again maybe he just watched that interview with the lonely nip trader).

Again, its just my opinion that the markets are in no way unpredictable nor a random walk.

>> No.13645636

I was already a finance student but this game pushed me to study the markets like no other. I am finally on track to beat the S&P 500 which is a major milestone to any investor.

>> No.13645744

>>13637360
Please tell me about these systems, I have no clue what alternative you are suggesting that would work as you're describing or even work past an ideal. Humans are materialistic and desire wealth, status and power either through money, possessions or whatever means.

>>13645627
There are completely random events that can't be predicted such as natural disasters which I assume is what people mean, however that doesn't make the market's themselves random.

>> No.13645815

>>13645627
But they are, it's pretty obvious when you have an investment and time is involved - unless you have a cristal ball that knows every outcome. There's a reason why you model share prices with stochastic processes. The market is all about asymmetric information, dumb individuals and unpredictable events, which lead to risk. But of course, there are strategies to lower the risk.

>> No.13645848

>>13645744
>There are completely random events that can't be predicted such as natural disasters

Well looking around a few years back I read on an economist named Martin Armstrong, I found out his models were predicting a high intensity earthquake in the Tohoku region of japan about in march and look what happened.

Link related.
>http://armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/armstrongeconomics-japan-earthquake-042511.pdf

>> No.13645862

50 years predictions are impossible.

We thought Japan would become even more powerful after the 90s.

>> No.13645864

>>13645636
Are you rich?

>> No.13646103

>>13645605
So after you can't respond my points you resort to tell me to stop posting. You can't even take criticism and don't even bother thinking about it for a bit only because it goes against your established beliefs. I've been polite and responsive the entire time.

>>13645744
And after you can't respond to my points either, you resort to saying that "it won't work" and "human nature is like how I say it is". In the middle ages people said the same thing about monarchy. Of course, I didn't reply expecting more than this.

>> No.13646132

>>13645619
Nobody is even talking about which system is "better". He implied capitalism was the only system that promoted progress and he was proven wrong. Anything else is a strawman.

>> No.13646165

>>13635601
The Episode 1 translation was done by someone else. Sekai is translating 2 and 3 and will do a new translation for 1 because it's so weak.

>> No.13646173

>>13646132
>he was proven wrong

>> No.13646181

>>13635601
Really weird English at times. I think they had 4 or 5 eople transle it because it changes a lot in different places.

>> No.13646184

>>13646103
What is there to respond?

There's no difference between personal property and private property.

>> No.13646190

>>13646132
Except I was.
>It's proven wrong considering the Soviet have never advanced the internet the way the americans did, despite that shit being open source since the 80s and 90s.
From the get go I was challenging your hypothesis that somehow without capitalism, the internet like at it is today would still exist, you have no proof of this, and the alternative (the Soviet Union) shows no such sign.

>> No.13646199

Stop derailing threads with your stupid political discussions.

>> No.13646206

>>13646199
This thread from the get go is economic debate, there's no derailing it.

Capitalism and "communism" are both economic system.

>> No.13646210

>>13646206
No, the OP wanted to know what everyone thought of the game, not what everyone thought of economics in general. You just insist on dragging every single thread you can into a political discussion.

>> No.13646220

>>13646173
Of course he was because he didn't try to debunk the fact that progress was achieved in a non-capitalist system.

>>13646184
It's generally accepted that there is, otherwise free market economic theories like mutualism that have no private property wouldn't exist.

>>13646190
No, the main point was that progress has been achieved in alternative systems, Internet and space technology are only examples and both serve to prove points. It's illogical to say that without capitalism we would be cavemen.

>> No.13646228

>>13646210
The game IS about economics, discussion on economics that the game shows or implies is related to the topic.

You hate political discussion but it's ridiculous to suppress that in a thread about economic system.

>> No.13646235

>>13646220
>It's generally accepted that there is, otherwise free market economic theories like mutualism that have no private property wouldn't exist.
From Wikipedia, it seems only
>In political/economic theory, notably socialist, Marxist, and left-anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important. Which items of property constitute which is open to debate.
Holds this view.

>> No.13646236

>>13646206
There's also mutualism, agorism, syndicalism, gift economy, network economy, among others; not to mention the state, libertarian, mixed and post-scarcity variations of all of these.

>> No.13646242

>>13646235
It says it's extremely important for them, not that they're the only ones that make the difference. For example anarcho-capitalists are aware of the difference and support private property under that distinction.

>> No.13646246

>>13646220
My point has always been that the alternative systems are inferior to capitalism.

Proof can be seen in reality, capitalism with pseudo-free market economy are usually the richest, most civilized countries, with the United States of America being the primal example.

>> No.13646258

>>13646236
Most of them are not relevant and haven't been put to use.

It's even arguable that communism has ever been put to use.

>> No.13646266

>>13646220
>No, the main point was that progress has been achieved in alternative systems, Internet and space technology are only examples and both serve to prove points. It's illogical to say that without capitalism we would be cavemen.

We would, for starters every single of the great empires has had some form of private property and a rule of law that made possible the advances they all made, take for example Hammurabi code, it has laws talking about price regulation which is proof that the business cycle existed even then.
Take the greeks, there were money managers even then and the temples lent the donated money at an interest in order to cut themselves a profit.
The only time you got an almost dead business cycle(and progress) at all was in the dark ages when people sold themselves for protection thanks to the collapse in the the rule of law due to Rome ripping itself apart.
After that what allowed people to have private property again was the black plague, thanks to the lack of people wages were instituted again.

So there you have it, progress is fruit of the boom and bust cycle and people owning stuff and thinking ways to own more and when there is no private property you get a dark age.

>> No.13646268

>>13646242
I just read on anarcho-capitalist page on wikipedia.

They do not hold distinction between personal and private property, they hold distinction between private property and public property.

>> No.13646277

>>13646246
The entire world is capitalist right now, both rich countries in Europe and poor countries in South America; even China, and in the near future Cuba. There are currently no real examples of alternative modern economic systems in the world. No, feudalism isn't a modern economic system.

>>13646258
Yes, I agree. That's exactly why we can't state with so much certainty that alternative systems are inferior or that don't work; they have never been put into practice, or at least certainly not in ideal conditions like capitalism has been all this time.

>> No.13646289

>>13646277
That's bullshit talk.

It just proves that they are inferior because capitalism alone fucking suffices.

If is is not, then surely these mountain of other economics would rise up and overtake capitalism, just like how the merchant class overtakes kings.

>> No.13646295

>>13646289
This is probably the most simplistic view I've seen lately.

>> No.13646298

>>13646228
None of the economic discussion occurring now has any relevance to the game. You're just using it as an excuse to shitpost. At this point I'd be surprised if you've even read the thing.

>> No.13646304

>>13646295

No need to complicate things, there's a reason why simple is best.

>> No.13646309

>>13646289
Well, if the USSR had done all of this themselves instead

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

maybe the whole world would be communist by now, I think.

>> No.13646314

>>13646295
As opposed to?

It's either:
- capitalism is so good that it triumphs all other
- capitalism is so bad that it suppresses all other

It just proves how powerful capitalist compared to its alternatives.

>> No.13646325

>>13646309
Uh, they tried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
>Active measures included the establishment and support of international front organizations (e.g. the World Peace Council); foreign communist, socialist and opposition parties; wars of national liberation in the Third World; and underground, revolutionary, insurgency, criminal, and terrorist groups.[1] The intelligence agencies of Eastern Bloc states also contributed to the program, providing operatives and intelligence for assassinations and other types of covert operations.[1]

But they can't because they don't got money for it.

>> No.13646330

>>13646298
I admit I haven't played the games, but economic discussion in an economic game is absolutely not off-topic, especially if the game deals with capitalism.

>> No.13646336

>>13646314
I'll tell you another alternative: the ones pushing capitalism managed to push harder than the ones trying to push other systems. See >>13646309 - if capitalism is so good I'm pretty sure the US doesn't need all that military power and covert operations overseas, since you know, it's so good that it triumphs all others by itself. Capitalism isn't powerful, the ones pushing it are.

>> No.13646342

>>13646330
It is when it's got nothing to do with the game. It's the same as saying a discussion about whether the moon landing was faked is fine because the game takes place on the moon.

>> No.13646351

>>13646336
You realize the US only got all that military power is because of capitalism, right? It doesn't come from magics, I'm sure.

And everyone try to push their economics ideal, even the damn anarchists, but only the ones pushing capitalism have been successful or the most successful, jeez I wonder why.

>> No.13646359

>>13646342
If the game is about moon landing event then it's actually fine to discuss whether that is fake or not though.

Just like when you talk about capitalism in a game, you refer/compare to its realistic counterpart.

>> No.13646371

>>13646359
You're not comparing anything, you haven't even read it. You're just talking about politics, completely disregarding any context or relevance to the game.

>> No.13646379

>>13646336
>>13646351
Not to mention, Vietnam, China, Eastern Europe who naturally revert to capitalism or pseudo-capitalism with private property by itself without the US winning over them.

It almost seems like a logical thing to do.

>> No.13646381

>>13646371
I'm talking about capitalism, which is pretty relevant to the game tho.

>> No.13647705

>>13635293
Does anyone have this? The two torrents on nyaa don't have any seeds, and there's nothing on Perfect Dark

>>
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