I'm interested in learning Japanese, any book recommendations?

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Anonymous Mon May 25 23:19:42 2015 No.13550381 [Reply] [Original]

I'm interested in learning Japanese, any book recommendations?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 23:22:00 2015 No.13550394 >>13550381 Genki is good. I took a class and thats the book we used.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 23:23:23 2015 No.13550404 >>13550381 After Dark by Murakami.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 23:33:04 2015 No.13550454 >>13550404 I meant a book for learning Japanese.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 23:46:20 2015 No.13550536 JLPT books.

Anonymous Mon May 25 23:48:38 2015 No.13550558

>>13550381
"Japanese Step by Step", second edition, by Gene Nishi, is a decent book. Apparently it was written with IBM employees who needed to learn quickly in mind.

Genki is also good, although the professor I had noted that a few things in the book weren't necessarily correct

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 23:52:54 2015 No.13550589 File: 1.00 MB, 2404x1702, 3a04f280c788942f94be51854ed488bd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >book use this meme guide instead https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jrMXTVapkGlYSyQDwppETbz62ltcknJITQ7ll6bH8QM/edit?pli=1

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 00:33:36 2015 No.13550818 >>13550454 Wind-up Bird Chronicle by Murakami.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 00:34:52 2015 No.13550819 >>13550818 Blind Willow, Sleeping Woman by Haruki Murakami

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 00:42:24 2015 No.13550859 >>13550819 kuso book.

Anonymous Tue May 26 01:36:34 2015 No.13551096

First learn the kanji by writing them up to several hundred times each until they stick, then get the DOJG, a dictionary and a book (bonus if it's also in audiobook format) and read through it, looking up every single word and grammatical concept you don't understand. Remember them with whatever system you please, SRS, word lists, brute force extensive reading, it doesn't matter. It starts out slow as you need to look up every other word, but you quickly get past that. Don't use genki or other trash resources, they're for normalfags who think learning ten kanji a week and having to take four years of classes to be able to use the language is an acceptable pace*. The single most efficient (and motivating, and fun, and easiest, etc.) way to learn a language is to read in it.

*Example, average genki-using student of Japanese: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/q91zp/after_receiving_my_jlpt_results_i_am_at_my_wits/
Your goal should be to consume native material as soon as possible; this is not the way to go about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 04:46:34 2015 No.13551743 >>13550381 tae kim if you're a poorfag, or Genki. I suggest to took a class, if the teacher is good it's actually helpfull as a supplement on your own study.

Anonymous Tue May 26 05:04:48 2015 No.13551778

>>13551096
The idea of people like this actually existing is disgusting. How can you hope to learn a language if you put in an hour a day?

Writing kanji to make them stick is a silly idea. Using a system of mnemonics and radicals makes them an absolute breeze, and a pace of between 20 and 50 kanji a day is pretty easy to keep up. After you're done with a decent number of kanji, vocab becomes immeasurably easier, and you can kick your studying up to 100-300 new words a day without much issue.

Anonymous Tue May 26 05:13:10 2015 No.13551791

Start here, read it all the way down, even if it says Advanced it still won't be enough for you to understand all everyday sentences correctly
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

Keep going with this, reading all the way down to Advanced-I is sufficient
http://www.imabi.net/

Various lookup guides for grammar and such, make sure to read them through
http://www.jgram.org/ (in case you can't keep up with IMABI's just study the grammar points here)
http://web.archive.org/web/1/http://jiten.clanteam.com/ (full transcript of the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar volumes)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dckt6ix32l93f35/fora.pdf (you'd better print this cheatsheet somewhere)
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/grammar/ (the site also contains audio files and JLPT test sheets as well, the grammar usage section is particularly useful)

The rest:
http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/
http://thejapanesepage.com/grammar.htm

Nice site to learn vocabulary, online flashcards so you can review them everywhere without installing useless programs
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/
Make sure to study the daily kanji list at least up until level 5
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/daily/

I'm not suggesting any specific Anki deck, but kanji consist of a phonetic and semantic part which helps a lot in guessing the on-yomi (pseudo-Chinese reading) so try it and learn the patterns, it'll make learning kanji easier
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2079428463

KanjiDamage a shit, but since you can use many kanji to represent the same native Japanese word, read this. It'll save you up time learning kun-yomi and clear a lot of things up.
http://kanjidamage.com/appendix/dupes

Online dictionaries just in case:
http://jisho.org/
http://tangorin.com/

Other web utilities, pretty limited usage but help sometimes:
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/ (injects furigana over kanji)
http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl (kanji reading on mouseover)

Anonymous Tue May 26 05:35:02 2015 No.13551827

>>13551778
>100-300 new words

have fun with 500+ reveiw each day.

i prefer reading over grinding. It's more relaxing (especially if I'm reading a moege), and words stick better since I can read them in context. 2/3 hours of reading for me is better than grinding a deck.

Anonymous Tue May 26 05:43:27 2015 No.13551856
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>>13551096
>https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/q91zp/after_receiving_my_jlpt_results_i_am_at_my_wits/
My God, this was physically painful to read. There's just no way she actually studied for 6 years. If she'd learned 5 words and 1 Kanji a day, she'd be easily at N1 level.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 05:54:25 2015 No.13551884 >>13550381 go to >>>/a/ then catalog DJT

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 06:50:50 2015 No.13552054 >>13550381 I recommend you fuck off to >>>/a/ or >>>/int/japan

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 06:55:50 2015 No.13552063 >>13551096 >I am 24 >join a language school with my husband Please tell me people in America don't usually marry this young

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 07:27:32 2015 No.13552127 >>13552063 24 is a pretty standard age to be married at. 21 or below is retard tier, 22-25 is normal, 26+ is late bloomer. For women, at least.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 07:47:06 2015 No.13552168 >>13551096 >didn't pass N4 after six years jesus christ they are retarded

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 13:06:35 2015 No.13552919 >>13550859 Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami

Anonymous Tue May 26 13:17:16 2015 No.13552954

>>13551096
This false dichotomy is dumb. Genki and Tae Kim are fine, and are far more efficient than what you suggest, if you finish them in a short amount of time. With Genki you would want to just read the grammar explanations and ignore most of the other bullshit if you want to be efficient, but it's still better than guessing absolutely everything.

Alternatively, if you really want to just jump in, thenfind an audiobook with a RELIABLE (as in, by a professor) translation and read the japanese checking it with the translation.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 13:26:32 2015 No.13552984 Remembering the Kanji and The Memory Book. And online: Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 13:28:21 2015 No.13552988 >>13552168 I've been studying for 2 years and I'm pretty sure I can pass N1 now. Just need to remember to do it this year.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 13:51:48 2015 No.13553044 >>13550381 Try looking DJT in /a/'s foolz archive, The thread always has usefull links in there as well.

Anonymous Tue May 26 14:01:10 2015 No.13553089

>>13552954
>guessing absolutely everything
He said:
>get the DOJG
, which I assume refers to Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, which is like the exact opposite of guessing anything at all. Rest of the post aside, that advice is absolutely, 100% correct. "Why would you even do anything else?" kind of correct.

>if you finish them in a short amount of time
In other words, if you simply read through them once or twice to familiarize yourself with how the grammar works, without wasting your time treating them as lessons to learn.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 17:16:27 2015 No.13553929 >>13551791 KanjiDamage? More like BrainDamage, am I right?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:45:56 2015 No.13554953 >>13551827 I never know what to read ;__;, ive only read yotsubato

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:49:50 2015 No.13554980 >>13554953 ゆりゆららららゆるゆりゆりゆららららゆるゆりゆりゆららららゆるゆり大事件

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:55:58 2015 No.13555008 >>13554953 read shitty moege with ith and chiitrans on hand in case you need to look up a word

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:39:37 2015 No.13555236 >>13554980 Too much ゆる, not enough ゆり.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:58:16 2015 No.13555333 So many replies. Not OP, but, I've taken JPN 101 and did fine. I get the grammar, but as with other languages, Vocab is going to be the issue. What's the #1 way to study Kanji? Writing it repeatedly or flash cards?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:59:37 2015 No.13555340 >>13555333 Also, followup: Plan to take JPN 102, 201, 202, etc, and so on, just wondering what to do inbetween classes for studying

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:21:09 2015 No.13555476 >>13551791 Saved. Anata-san, arigatô

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:23:03 2015 No.13555485 >>13555476 CRINGGGGGGGGGGE

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:30:18 2015 No.13555523 >>13555485 ?

Anonymous Wed May 27 02:04:34 2015 No.13556470 [DELETED]

>>13553089
If you want to use the DOJG enough to be not guessing anything, you will have to read hundreds of pages within your first couple hundred lines of Japanese. So you might as well just read a real guide. If you think you're not going to make a bunch of mistakes just because you have DOJG at hand you're retarded.

>In other words, if you simply read through them once or twice to familiarize yourself with how the grammar works
Absolutely.

Anonymous Wed May 27 02:07:04 2015 No.13556474

>>13553089
If you want to use the DOJG enough to be not guessing anything, you will have to read hundreds of pages within your first couple hundred lines of Japanese. So you might as well just read a real guide. You aren't going to get through flawlessly just because you have DOJG at hand.

>In other words, if you simply read through them once or twice to familiarize yourself with how the grammar works
Absolutely.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 02:13:41 2015 No.13556499 File: 216 KB, 800x1130, 1353456597720.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 02:27:20 2015 No.13556540 >>13556499 It's called romaji

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 02:29:27 2015 No.13556550 >>13556540 romazi

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 02:58:20 2015 No.13556676 >>13551791 >Online dictionaries just in case: >http://jisho.org/ >http://tangorin.com/ People really should stop using edict/kanjidict. It is utter shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 03:00:27 2015 No.13556685 >>13556676 At some point they'll graduate to using Japanese dictionaries anyway, so who cares.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 03:09:23 2015 No.13556712 >>13556676 It's the best Japanese to English dictionary for free. I wished people who knew Japanese would correct some of its errors.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 03:19:54 2015 No.13556746 >>13550381 Buy human Japanese intermediate on android

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 05:59:39 2015 No.13557148 This is for you, /jp/. https://mega.co.nz/#F!X8c1QKDQ!ZBOfuAJIEcrlABceUOTuIQ Now get to studying

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:01:55 2015 No.13557156
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>>13550381
Most textbooks are meant to be used in a classroom setting and are way too slow paced and unorganized.

I used a grammar guide (Taekims guide to Japanese, it's both online and published as a book, both are great but the book is more organized ) and a kanji drill book for 1st graders, which was a pretty efficient method.
Use Anki flashcards for the kanji.

The important thing about kanji is that you have to memorize them as parts of words, preferably in a sentence. If you just learn the English meaning (which is just an approximation) and the reading you're mostly wasting your time.

The kanji drill book in the picture is called 漢字　ドリルの王様, kanji doriru no ousama.
I'd suggest getting that one, or something similar which has
1) The kanji and readings
2) writing order
3) example words
4) example sentences.
You won't get the English meaning of one and one kanji, but you don't really need that, having an understanding of how each kanji is used in words is a lot more beneficial anyway.
Try understanding the example sentences yourself and get some Japanese person online to help you if you're stuck. If you do this you'll be able to read simple books in Japanese after finishing 2-3 drill books.

Also, some people here where saying 20 kanji a day, I suggest doing 10-20 words a day, that will be about one page in the drill book or 5 kanji.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 06:08:02 2015 No.13557171 >>13556499 thats bullshit lol

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:24:24 2015 No.13557213

>>13557156
I disagree with the idea of just learning words. Not only is it much slower than learning kanji and meanings, I feel it doesn't give you as much drive.

I went through 20 kanji a day, it was a bit of a slog. Now I'm going through core with a pace of 200 new words a day, because of how easy it is. The only time I have to stop is when I come across either a strange reading, or a compound with a strange meaning, and these words are well under half of the total. I find new words fun, because I technically already know most of them, logically speaking, I just haven't encountered them before.

Motivation is a key element in studying, and I'm positive that if I was 4 months in right now, and barely done with 2k, I'd be considering quitting because of the seemingly endless task ahead. Instead, I'm 4 months in, core 6k was a breeze, and the next 20k words I need to learn to reach fluency don't seem like anywhere near as much work as they would if I was going at 20 words a day.

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:34:26 2015 No.13557244

>>13557213
Your method won't make you fluent in Japanese though. Sure you'll remember the kanji, but they almost always show up in compound words, which often don't even carry the same meaning as the two kanji put together.

My method is a lot slower, kanji wise, but the important thing here is to learn Japanese. If you do 5 kanji a day (about 20 words) you'll be able to pass kanji kentei lvl 7 in 4 months. Which would be impossible if you're just learning the meaning of one and one sign, since you need an understanding of the usage of the kanji and the Japanese language itself.

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:41:55 2015 No.13557268

>>13557244
Level 7 is 640 kanji, right? And common jukugo. I learned 1800 kanji in 3 months, with common readings. Then I learned 6k vocab in a month, along with another few dozen new kanji from core.

I probably wouldn't be able to pass Kanken. Because I didn't waste any time on stroke order, or the official names of radicals. But I'm able to read at a pretty comfortable level. And given that my goal wasn't to pass a meaningless exam intended for natives, I think I'm doing pretty well.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 06:50:58 2015 No.13557293 kusothread

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:55:33 2015 No.13557313

>>13557268
Can you actually use them though? if you've learned 1800 kanji yous should easily be able to pass JLPT N1, read complicated books like high school textbooks and insurance policies. If you're able to do that I'll switch to your method any day.

I passed level 7 in about 4 months and then I could read light novels and chat to people online, sure it's a far way from knowing the 2k kanji you go though by higschool, but you actually get some useful knowledge and by the time you reach your 2k you'll be more or less at the level of a normal Japanese high school student

I know wikipedia says you need the official names of the radicals, but I can't remember them coming up on the level 7 test. The knowledge of antonyms part is way more annoying and partially useless for a foreigner. If you're going to be writing by hand you need the stroke order, if not you don't, easy as that.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:13:22 2015 No.13558099 File: 37 KB, 297x300, 1426848004189.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13550381 ２D可愛い少女を強姦するのためには日本語が要らないよ、ファゴット君。

Anonymous Wed May 27 13:42:32 2015 No.13558414

>>13557213
What resource did you use? I've always been wary of starting with kanji because I'm having trouble finding a resource that presents them in a logical way instead of an utility way. There's no point in making me learn the top 100 used kanji in newspapers if they haven't taught me the radicals that make them up first, that's illogical and doesn't help remember or work with the kanji in the slightest, and I don't need a fancy story to remember each kanji and its meaning, I just want something that neatly presents me with a list of kanji ordered in the most logical progression possible with their meaning and reading(s) when applicable so that I can work my way up.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 14:48:56 2015 No.13558668 >>13558414 Good luck reaching N1 by 2040 m8

The Musician !WIZardrY9E Wed May 27 14:58:48 2015 No.13558712

I got my N2 long ago, but the N1 is next level shit if you aren't living in Japan and being forced to listen to and use the language daily. Immersion, while not practical, is definitely the way to go.

Anyway, Anki is a great tool. They have decks pre-made and ready to roll, but if you're really serious you'll build your own. You can supplement this by studying Kanji and grammar online or with JLPT books.

がんばって！

Anonymous Wed May 27 18:39:45 2015 No.13559662

>>13558712
>N1 is next level shit if you aren't living in Japan and being forced to listen to and use the language daily
Even then, it's difficult as hell. N1 doesn't test practical Japanese - it's much more literature-centric. Some of these grammar constructions are ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 18:50:18 2015 No.13559701 >>13559662 I see N1 grammar constructions all times in VNs, and it takes just like a few sentences to properly understand how it's used.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 23:54:23 2015 No.13560964 >>13559701 Are you implying that VNs use obly practical Japanese and are a part of regular daily life in Japan?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 00:01:55 2015 No.13560994 >>13560964 No, he's implying the Japanese in question is practical because VNs use it.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 00:03:25 2015 No.13561002 >>13560994 Well that's just ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 00:05:38 2015 No.13561012 >>13561002 How so? That's a very practical applicaton.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 01:31:40 2015 No.13561303 File: 185 KB, 500x500, genki mary drinking.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What should you use after Genki 2?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 13:03:25 2015 No.13563032 >>13556499 that is a funny troll image post the one on how to make crystals next

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 13:04:59 2015 No.13563045 >>13561303 Genki 3 ~ Forever with you ~

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 20:11:40 2015 No.13565131 File: 34 KB, 300x378, ufuckingruthlessbitch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13550381 Look for メアリーさん she will guide you.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 28 22:33:45 2015 No.13565879 新岳が噴火しました。

Anonymous Fri May 29 04:28:59 2015 No.13567303

>>13551096
>>13554953
>>13558414
I also like the reading method.

I bought the book "Breaking into Japanese Literature" by Giles Murray. It has a bunch of real Japanese stories by Japanese authors in both English and Japanese. There's a guide under each page which explains the meanings of new kanji/phrases you encounter. It covers 50% of all the commonly used kanji and there are mp3s of native speakers reading the stories on the book's website.

Will upload pic from my phone in a sec.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 29 04:30:34 2015 No.13567309 File: 1.68 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13567303

Anonymous Fri May 29 04:37:55 2015 No.13567329

Is there any grammar resource that doesn't use all the boring shit terms like adverb, pronoun, topic modifier?

I want something where it's all just 1:1, literal interpretations of the grammatical constructs. Snowclones shit. Say they take a noun, and to give an example for conjugations, just made up English words. Like you've got "summer", and some Japanese conjugation makes it "summerly" or "unsummerly". That kind of shit, without the boring as shit descriptor words I have to fucking look up and try and link together in my mind, which is something I haven't done for 20 years, all those connections are long gone.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 29 11:14:14 2015 No.13567533 >>13567329 Good luck reaching N1 in 2071

>>	Anonymous Fri May 29 12:19:25 2015 No.13567781 >>13567329 So you want to learn a whole new language, but you can't be arsed learn a few words in your own to help yourself? This sure bodes really well for you.

Anonymous Fri May 29 17:00:11 2015 No.13568709

>>13567329
I get your frustration but you're going to run into some those terms no matter how you look at it. The object, subject, particle this and that talk is mostly limited to basic grammar though.

I don't think Tae Kim's guide is that bad, at least it has a lot of good example sentences that focus more about the 'feel' of the sentence rather than the correct literal translation.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 29 17:36:40 2015 No.13568865 File: 241 KB, 1200x800, japanese-the-manga-way.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat May 30 01:00:34 2015 No.13570470

>>13551096
This is fucking horrible advice. It's going to be an utterly perplexing and tedious experience to just dive into Japanese literature with zero grammar knowledge. You're not going to retain anything and you're going to end up hating the language.
Have you ever thought that maybe you can use the textbook as a resource while you work on readings? It's not a black or white issue. Bashing Genki or any other beginner textbook and pretending like it cannot be used in conjunction with other materials (as they're intended to be) is asinine.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 01:31:27 2015 No.13570606 >>13567303 I like the book and the idea but it's not too practical until your overall Japanese is at a decent level.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 01:33:16 2015 No.13570612 >>13567329 What happens when you get to the language elements that don't map directly onto English?

Anonymous Sat May 30 04:04:01 2015 No.13571120

>>13570470
>It's going to be an utterly perplexing and tedious experience to just dive into Japanese literature with zero grammar knowledge
Except it's not tedious at all, and I don't understand why people seem to think this. What could be less tedious than reading things you are interested in right from the start, or more tedious than studying dry textbooks without the context of native material for six months? As long as every element of a text is understood and you can confidently say that you understand exactly how and why a text in a foreign language is saying what it says, then the connections are being formed and you're learning that language.

>You're not going to retain anything and you're going to end up hating the language.
Of course you will, it's just a matter of time investment like anything else. Why would you retain a grammatical rule you learned in a textbook, but not one you learned in context? What's the difference?

>Have you ever thought that maybe you can use the textbook as a resource while you work on readings?
Sure, if that works then why not? As I said, the goal is to begin reading native material ASAP. It's not the most efficient way though.

>as they're intended to be
But the majority don't use them like that, they go through the textbooks at a snail's pace, and go months/years before even trying to use the language.

Anonymous Sat May 30 08:10:03 2015 No.13571693

I'm taking N3 in July. Example tests are looking pretty good, but there's one thing I was wondering with the scoring: Since it's purely multiple choice, do you get points deducted for wrong answers? Doesn't say that anywhere on their site, but I guess that's the standard for those kind of tests?

Anonymous Sat May 30 08:16:56 2015 No.13571718

>>13571120
>Except it's not tedious at all, and I don't understand why people seem to think this.

Not that guy, but I tried to read without knowldge, and was frustrating as fuck.

After three month on the Tae Kim I started reading again. It was tedious because I didn't remember all the rules, but now (six month later) I can enjoy reading VN with only some grammar issues. Words are the biggest problem now, but that's normal, I think.

tl;dr in nine month I learned grammar and started to enjoy reading, if I kept on reading only I would probably stopped after two month

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:19:15 2015 No.13571725 KILL WHITEY!!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:19:53 2015 No.13571728 >>13571725 日本語で言いなさい

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:23:06 2015 No.13571733 >>13571728 ホワイト・ピッグ・ゴー・ホーム！！

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:31:14 2015 No.13571748 >>13568865 I have this book and it's awesome.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:32:49 2015 No.13571751 >>13571693 >do you get points deducted for wrong answers? You get no points for wrong answers.

Anonymous Sat May 30 08:40:21 2015 No.13571764

>>13571751
Oh, I see. Thanks. That makes things much easier then, especially seeing how you only need about 60% to pass and questions only have 4 answers.
I hope I won't have to do much guessing, but it's good to know that you have that option if all else fails.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 08:49:36 2015 No.13571778 >>13552919 In the Miso Soup by Ryu Murakami

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:06:05 2015 No.13571812 Guys, how hard is the N5 test ?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:08:42 2015 No.13571816 >>13571812 See for yourself. http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n5.html There's really no reason to take anything lower than N3 or N2, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:15:56 2015 No.13571827 >>13571816 There is. Self-evaluation. Also the confidence/motivation boost you get from passing an exam.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:16:39 2015 No.13571830 >>13571827 Pretty expensive for self-evaluation.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:18:20 2015 No.13571833 >>13571816 Thank you. Doesn't seems to be that hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:20:29 2015 No.13571836 >>13571830 What, it's like 70 bucks and you can only take it twice a year. Get a job, nerd.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 09:26:48 2015 No.13571854 >>13571836 It's NEET land over here, please no bully.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 11:08:37 2015 No.13572157 >>13571836 >twice a year In my country it's once a year. I'm going to do the N4 next year.

Anonymous Sat May 30 11:13:46 2015 No.13572177 [DELETED]

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Is it true you have to be good at English first before you can learn Japanese???

What's the fastest and easiest way to learn Japanese where I don't have to practice excpet maybe one day a week???

Anonymous Sat May 30 11:35:33 2015 No.13572268

Genki worked really well for me. Hopefully it's of use to you. There's a pdf floating around somewhere if you don't want to buy it. It gets linked a lot here, and some other boards.

I liked to use wanikani. Though some people will tell you otherwise. RTK is a possibility.

I'd probably just start with Genki to see if you're into it. See how far that gets you. It clicked with me and I went through both books, doing very well for myself now. (with some supplemental material of course)

Anonymous Sat May 30 11:38:05 2015 No.13572274

>>13571120
You won't have any comprehension at all reading right off the bat. How would you even be able to make any sense of it at all without knowing basic grammar like verb conjugations, parts of speech, particles, etc.
Just chipping away at it with a grammar dictionary on hand is asinine. You would literally have no comprehension at all.
Also nice strawman with
>the majority don't use them like that
There are tons of people on /jp/ and on the internet who use textbooks at a rapid pace. I've finished half of the Tobira book in about a months time, which is normally an entire semester's course.
Stop pretending to be an expert with your delusional advice that I've never seen recommended once anywhere.

Anonymous Sat May 30 12:22:03 2015 No.13572374

>>13572274
>You won't have any comprehension at all reading right off the bat. How would you even be able to make any sense of it at all without knowing basic grammar like verb conjugations, parts of speech, particles, etc.
So spend a couple of hours learning some of the extremely basic grammatical concepts in the language. You don't need to read multiple volumes of textbooks to have a basic enough understanding of a language to be able to read it with the help of a dictionary and grammar reference without being completely lost. Reference a cheat sheet if you must, there's hundreds of them. What do you mean, you would have no comprehension? You're looking up things you don't know and learning what they mean until you understand a text, i.e. developing a comprehension, and remembering what they mean through repeated real world exposure instead of memorizing hundreds of pages of dry explanations.

>Also nice strawman with
It's true though. People go months and months before trying to even read easy manga. Poll a hundred random Japanese beginners and chances are the majority of them don't make reading native material a major part of their daily routine. You say that these textbooks are intended to be used alongside native material, when in reality they're intended to be used in academic institutions, which do go at a ridiculously slow pace. Not sure how that's strawmanning.

>Stop pretending to be an expert with your delusional advice that I've never seen recommended once anywhere.
Practical advice, you mean. You're the one recommending people use academic textbooks and put off real usage of Japanese for months as a beginner for absolutely no reason at all. Ah yes, the absurd notion of actually reading a language to learn it, why would such a ridiculous idea ever be recommended by anyone? It's called intensive/extensive reading, look it up.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 12:33:01 2015 No.13572400 >>13572157 Good luck, mate. Keep studying!

Anonymous Sat May 30 12:54:43 2015 No.13572463

>>13572374
You keep saying that textbooks put off real usage for months. In nowhere do they say or recommend this. You can easily burn through both Genki volumes in a month if you wanted to.
Then you'd get the basic grammar constructions plus more, and your readings will be far more efficient than just chipping away at it with no real direction.

Anonymous Sat May 30 13:36:06 2015 No.13572591

>>13572463
>Then you'd get the basic grammar constructions plus more, and your readings will be far more efficient
It would be more efficient to learn through reading, because then you're reinforcing things as they pop up in frequency, and you'll find it easier to remember things if you look them up as you need to rather than indiscriminately memorizing pages of grammatical rules from textbooks.

>than just chipping away at it with no real direction.
What more direction could you want, exactly? Is reading the things you wanted to read when you decided to learn the language not direction enough?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 14:27:08 2015 No.13572785 >>13571816 Don't some Japanese jerbs require N1?

Anonymous Sat May 30 14:46:47 2015 No.13572864
File: 94 KB, 1024x768, 1231.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Hey OP, friendly advice here. I went from zero to reading Dies Irae with only a little parser help in 6 months. My biggest advice to you is this (so you don't repeat my mistakes): ignore all advice and rules you see outside of textbooks written by authoritative JAPANESE authors (this automatically disqualifies anything written on image boards, Tae Kim's guide, Ixrec's guide etc). If you are an intelligent human being, you'll figure all the details naturally (from Anki, to what to read for practice etc.) Aside from that, all you need is massive perseverance and self-discipline, but again these are things that can't be taught.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 14:59:44 2015 No.13572915 >>13572591 How many times do I have to say that I'm recommending using it as a supplement. You keep acting like it's one or the other.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 15:15:03 2015 No.13572993 >>13572915 It's still inefficient, even as a supplement.

Anonymous Sat May 30 15:19:30 2015 No.13573014
File: 81 KB, 456x393, o0456039312566789308.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

To add a little bit: grammar is absolutely essential for fluent reading. You must learn to LOVE grammar, read grammar books, sleep with them, fuck them, whatever. There's not the slightest hope of you understanding anything written for above-kindergarten level correctly without grammar. Japanese works nothing like European languages so relying on your "language intuition" will lead you into a make-believe world where you might as well use a machine translation tools.

Break apart every sentence into grammar until you know how every sentence works logically until it becomes a natural part of your thinking.

If you plan on reading harder VNs or actual literature then brace yourself for delving into Classical Japanese as well, Japanese learn a bunch of it in high school school so it's taken for granted that you know its basics on top of modern grammar.

Peace out.
>>13572864

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 15:29:31 2015 No.13573063 >>13572785 By lower he means N4 and N5. N1 is the highest.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 15:33:59 2015 No.13573085 >>13572864 Care to list who some good authors / what some good books are since you listed the ones to disregard?

Anonymous Sat May 30 15:59:38 2015 No.13573231
File: 16 KB, 238x212, wamu2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13573085
The dictionaries of Basic to Advanced Grammar by Makino and Tsutsui that are listed in like every copypasta. They are decent for basics though they do skimp on a LOT of important stuff.

Then you need an intermediate-level book like this amaz0n.com/Japanese-Postpositions-Practice-Noriko-Katsuki-Pestemer/dp/3895861111 to start seeing how things actually work beyond copy-paste patterns.

Then you transition to Classical Grammar books like "Classical Japanese: A Grammar" by Haruo Shirane, to start 'getting' the archaisms that are so loved by higher-tier VN writers and actual modern literature from Akutagawa to Mishima. At the same time when you're good enough to be reading Classical Grammar books you should be able to read Japanese-language grammar materials to make things finally click and that's about it. You can cover all of this in a 5-6 month span if you're a no-lifer like me or maybe more if you do stuff other than Japanese, maybe a lot less (3 months?) if you're actually talented (I know I'm not).

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 16:59:53 2015 No.13573580 >>13573231 Any recommendations specifically for learning to converse with people in modern times? Appreciate the posts.

Anonymous Sat May 30 17:11:44 2015 No.13573645

>>13573014
>There's not the slightest hope of you understanding anything written for above-kindergarten level correctly without grammar. Japanese works nothing like European languages so relying on your "language intuition" will lead you into a make-believe world where you might as well use a machine translation tools.
So every Japanese kid has read the grammar guides you listed because no way they could learn shit with "language intuition", right?
Reading a grammar guide once or twice should be more than enough. Then if you encounter something you don't understand grammatically, you simply look it up.
>If you are an intelligent human being, you'll figure all the details naturally

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 17:29:48 2015 No.13573726 >>13572864 Reminder that reading Dies Irae in 6 months doesn't mean you understood any of it Also lol at not just >text hooker help but even worse >parser help Reading stuff beyond your level doesn't make you more knowledgeable.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 20:24:02 2015 No.13574440 >>13551096 > that reddit post my sides!!! even the lazy scum that i am passed N3 in 1 year of self study.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 20:26:50 2015 No.13574459 >>13551827 i hear you. memorization is just so... bland. reading ftw. you cant help but remember if you see the word repeated throughout the text. it still memorization in a way.

Anonymous Sat May 30 21:02:10 2015 No.13574595

First, we get a hiragana captcha. Quality of /jp/ improves drastically ...for a few weeks, when we notice that a lot of the shitposters enjoy shitting up /jp/ enough to learn hiragana. So we try a katakana captcha instead, and same thing happens, works at first, but doesn't take long before everyone can bypass it. So we decide that the kana are a little too easy to learn, and decide to move on to kanji, using grade 1 jouyou kanji, which most veterans should know by now, but should be enough to scare away anyone unwanted. Things look brighter, but with time, it's undeniable that /jp/ is starting to return to how it was. Let's move up to grade 2, that should be harder! Same thing happens. Grade 3, same thing. Grade 4, 5 and 6, same thing. High school jouyou! A golden age of a few months, and then the same. Well, fuck kanji, let's do some vocabulary. Same thing. Advanced vocabulary! Advanced grammar! 2ch slang! Osakaben! Yakuza slang! The way samurai addressed their daimyo in the Sengoku era!

And about 2 years after the hiragana captcha was introduced, most /jp/ers know more Japanese than Japanese people themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 21:04:12 2015 No.13574605 >>13574595 Retsu do eet.

Anonymous Sat May 30 21:16:20 2015 No.13574644

How do you guys who keep saying that reading>>>textbooks even go about it? Even with some experience, easy VNs for me still look like a nightmare. I couldn't even imagine figuring it out without using a translator, and the whole "context" argument is bullshit for something as complicated as Japanese.
Can you actually get better at reading Japanese with the use of something like chiitrans or jparser? It doesn't seem productive at all that way.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 21:22:11 2015 No.13574660 File: 312 KB, 1493x840, 1433035331781.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13552054 >>13551884 >we need this valuable space for touhou threads!! just fucking kill yourself, man

Anonymous Sat May 30 21:24:11 2015 No.13574664

>>13574644
people study grammar for a few months then play visual novels with text hook and pretend they're fluent. if you do it for like 5 years you could get somewhere i suppose.

you can actually study properly and be reading everything without text hooks or any help besides a jp or english dictionary in 6 months, but that takes effort.

Anonymous Sat May 30 21:24:33 2015 No.13574666

>>13574644
You learn some basic grammar and then prepare yourself for a soul crushing slog through something. No, really, it's soul crushing.

But the thing about it, is that it's a sink or swim scenario, and you have to constantly push yourself to improve if you even want to make progress. It takes a lot of motivation, and only some people prefer this type of method. Some people just outright despise "learning" words out of context in things like Anki or doing flashcards.

I like to think it's the constant need to reference almost everything in this method that makes it stick so well, because let me tell you, by the end of whatever you choose to read, you will have learned a staggering amount compared to if you were just reading textbooks or grinding vocab.

My suggestion for anyone that's a fan of video games would be to play through Tales of Vesperia on PS3, or a Digimon game (Adventure or Re:Digitize) on PSP.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 22:35:13 2015 No.13574931 >>13574644 It's like playing your first touhou game on lunatic right off the bat.

Anonymous Sat May 30 22:42:31 2015 No.13574968

>>13574664
All text hookers are is a way to look up words faster. Not using does not make you better at japanese, it just means you are wasting more time.

Obviously if you are barely looking up anything you won't need to use a text hooker, but you're not going to be at that level after 6 months.

Anonymous Sat May 30 23:02:03 2015 No.13575086

>>13574968
if you use a program to read words aloud since you can't do it yourself are you reading too? knowing the kanji so you don't have to use a text hook absolutely makes you more skilled at japanese.

the only people wasting are the people fooling themselves like you.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 23:29:15 2015 No.13575206 >>13575086 >anti-text hooker fags unable to understand that there are people better than them at japanese that don't see an advantage to typing everything out by hand

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 23:40:53 2015 No.13575276 >>13575206 a person better than me can't use text hook. it'd hurt their pride too much since it's like training wheels. plus you can't text hook physical novels books...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 30 23:43:38 2015 No.13575292 >>13575206 I don't get this. He's obviously saying that a person who can read without needing a text hooker is more skilled at Japanese than a person who needs one. This is pretty objectively true.

Anonymous Sun May 31 00:07:46 2015 No.13575405

>>13575086
Knowing kanji won't magicay make you know vocabulary, though. I can understand critisizing when it comes to jumping at VNs TOO early due to grammar inexperience, but text hookers are just there to not make you waste your time looking up words. For example, when reading books or playing certain games, I just look radical look up, and it just doesn't take forever for me to look up each word because most of the basic ones I've learned by seeing them a lot in VNs. If you think just by knowing joyo you're ahead someone hookin up words, then... I recommend learning japanese. Besides, if you install an EPWING dictionary, you'll have access to actually correct definitions than the people who grind core2k with those terrible EDICT ones.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 00:09:11 2015 No.13575408 >>13575405 magically use radical lookup *hooking Sorry, typing from a phone.

fag herder Sun May 31 00:39:08 2015 No.13575565

remembering the kanji - james heisig (reddit fags hate this because it takes willpower)
elementary japanese 1 & 2 - yoko hasegawa
tobira
kanzen master n2 + n1
shit load of anki decks (core 10000, create your own deck of autistic video game/fun words alongside these)
subs2srs
shit tier manga/novels from amazon.jp

Anonymous Sun May 31 00:43:53 2015 No.13575592

>>13575405
good old vocabulary. only way to learn it is from text hooking and studying grammar. if you can actually read the language without aid you obviously can't know vocabulary to go with what you're reading... wait... huh? text hooking is the biggest boondoggle around. the proof is the nonsense you guys say in response to critics. honestly, it makes me wonder if you're even learning the language or not.

i really don't even know why you're trying to talk down to me little fellow.

Anonymous Sun May 31 00:47:37 2015 No.13575609

>>13575592
You learn vocabulary by reading, and if you hook words instead of looking them up through radicals the process will be faster. Or are you implying people are supposed to grind those core decks with awful definitions? It's just a matter of convenience.

>>	fag herder Sun May 31 00:52:32 2015 No.13575641 >>13575609 he's saying that people are gonna get lazy and just use the text hook programs as a crutch and never bother to actually learn the words

Anonymous Sun May 31 01:02:38 2015 No.13575689

>>13575641
That falls down on how you will use the tool though, and how strong your memory is, though. There's a big difference between the guy who uses Jparser and reads dies irae as his fifth VN, and the guy who uses ITH with rikaisama and daijirin, keeping notes of words he notices he often forgets.

Anonymous Sun May 31 01:12:14 2015 No.13575725

>>13575609
if you read what i said originally you'd figure this out real quick. there's plenty of different ways you can go about learning the language. the biggest question is which one is fastest and gives you the highest degree of mastery? hint: it isn't text hooks. i said if you do your text hooks long enough you'll get somewhere. it's just not the speed at which you guys pretend.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 01:15:38 2015 No.13575742 >>13571816 ive heard you can take the N5(only) test online. is this true? ive been looking but doesnt seem to be

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 01:16:43 2015 No.13575746 >>13575742 I've never heard that before. Pretty sure you have to take them all in person.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 01:17:31 2015 No.13575750 >>13575742 There's only a practice one available online.

Anonymous Sun May 31 01:18:55 2015 No.13575759

>>13575725
I don't know, anon. I grinded grammar for a good amount of time, plus kanji, and later on jumped to VNs, using a text hooker and in the first two months reviewing all words I've learned. Two years later, I feel pretty comfortable with my current speed and understanding.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 01:33:56 2015 No.13575814 >>13575759 that's good, anon. keep working at it. the most important part is actually doing it regardless of method. this doesn't change what i said though.

Anonymous Sun May 31 01:35:44 2015 No.13575821

>>13575292
But define "needing one"

If you don't use a text hooker just because you are stubborn and are still looking up 5 words per sentence, then you are not better at japanese just because you aren't using a text hooker.

>>13575276
I haven't used a texthooker in years. I just recognize that they are extremely useful for learning because I'm not brain-dead.

Anonymous Sun May 31 02:01:00 2015 No.13575947

>>13575821
>I haven't used a texthooker in years
sure, sure... how many more strawman are you going to make? looking up 5 words per sentence? how many words is the text hooker looking up in that same sentence? maybe 10? in fact, maybe they're looking up every word in the vn and also confusing the readings while also reading the wrong compounds. suddenly 5 words doesn't look so bad.

no need to bullshit here, friend. it's obvious you're still at a low level if you need to spew these kind of bullshit arguments. cause you're brainless i'll explain this to you. a person who has enough discipline and willpower to actually study and memorize lots of kanji already has shown their ability and drive. your bullshit assumes they're equal, or even worse you think the text hooker has the edge somehow? in this situation the person who has already shown they can make the cut has a much higher favor than the guy who, maybe, read some grammar and uses text hooks. sorry to trigger you on this, but reality won't change so easily.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:10:16 2015 No.13576016 >>13575947 It's okay, maybe you'll understand how shit works when you've studied for more than a year.

Anonymous Sun May 31 02:18:04 2015 No.13576056

>>13576016
even if you studied for a year i doubt you even know 100 kanji given your intelligence.

a. studies kanji, grammar, and reads while memorizing joyo in 3 months
b. reads tae kim and plays moege with a text hook for 3 months

who will be further ahead at the end of the year?

HMM, i wonder? even if you live for 200 years you probably won't get this concept though.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:26:14 2015 No.13576105 AV借りてテンガやろ！

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:27:51 2015 No.13576112 File: 22 KB, 229x173, daily reminder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:29:44 2015 No.13576121 File: 141 KB, 476x347, 1425912744956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13576112 already done

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:31:08 2015 No.13576129 >>13576056 The fact that you're still obsessed with kanji belies your inexperience.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:35:56 2015 No.13576154 >>13576129 Not what belie means.

Anonymous Sun May 31 02:44:48 2015 No.13576191

>>13576129
yeah, who wants to know how to read the language? if you've got text-to-speech (text hook) you can read without knowing how to read. not so good attempt at deflecting it, but in your heart of hearts you capitulated and know i'm your better.

a will always have a lead over b. by the end of the year a will actually be reading dies irae while b will struggling to remember how to pronounce compounds

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 02:50:43 2015 No.13576214 >>13576154 Shit you're right. That makes it hard to make fun of the mega-autist's English now. Oh well I was going to get off 4chan soon anyway

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 04:25:54 2015 No.13576663 File: 8 KB, 229x173, ibxbTXFMFGwAd7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 04:33:13 2015 No.13576677 File: 60 KB, 229x173, 1395715949175.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13576663

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 04:41:20 2015 No.13576708 >>13576677 yeah take that!

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 04:57:28 2015 No.13576743 >>13576708 Suck it, dweeb.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 06:30:32 2015 No.13576937 File: 137 KB, 300x200, 1431859325563.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13576677

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 08:43:21 2015 No.13577256 >tfw Japanese sluts add me on twitter because it says I'm a gaijin in my info

>>	Anonymous Sun May 31 17:13:20 2015 No.13578961 >>13557148 Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 02:23:16 2015 No.13581498 File: 2.90 MB, 480x270, 1420181882577.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13550381 just go to imabi, you'll find everything you need to learn japanese.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 02:30:17 2015 No.13581523 >>13581498 Does it still read like a crazy person wrote it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 02:36:55 2015 No.13581548 >>13581523 Yes, along with the idioms and phrases that when googled don't even exist anywhere on the internet except on his website.

Anonymous Mon Jun 1 02:59:48 2015 No.13581610

>>13581548
>don't even exist anywhere on the internet
blame that on japanese. there's plenty of stuff you can google and not find any results. the japanese web isn't like the english one which is the library of humanity. you can barely even find mention of plenty of things if you read long enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:05:26 2015 No.13581620 >>13581610 Except native Japanese didn't know them when asked either. He's teaching made up shit and ignores you whenever you write to him about it.

Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:12:50 2015 No.13581639

>>13581620
i can shoot off a dozen terms a native english speaker doesn't have a fucking clue about either. being native doesn't mean your ability is worth glancing at. if you want to read idioms and proverbs here's a site: http://kotowaza.avaloky.com/index.html

anyway, my point is japanese google isn't the end all be all like the english one. as for the natives? means nothing to me. i don't got an ounce of respect for japanese and their academic ability. his site is for grammar and not learning idioms

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:14:58 2015 No.13581653 >>13581639 >i can shoot off a dozen terms a native english speaker doesn't have a fucking clue about either Then do it faggot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:21:19 2015 No.13581668 IMABI guy visited 4chan last year, I wouldn't be surprised if he still shills his site in these threads. http://www.imabi.net/apps/forums/topics/show/12191095

Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:33:01 2015 No.13581714

>>13581668
his site has shit indexing. what's the point of browsing through all those pages when you're looking for a more advanced usage of something? you've got no idea where the hell is it. it's easier to just google whatever it is and type 意味 after it.

keep thinking random natives and google.jp have it all though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:39:54 2015 No.13581743 >>13581714 Still waiting on that list.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 03:46:30 2015 No.13581770 >>13581743 don't hold your breath

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 10:48:45 2015 No.13583368 >>13568865 Can you show about halfway the book?

Anonymous Mon Jun 1 12:57:54 2015 No.13583884

>>13571120
>>13551096
>>13572374
This is a possible approach, which will certainly get you there. The guy from the Reddit post is positively retarded, but as with most things, the middle road is best. Using only Anki and Grammar books is going to get you nowhere, but reading books without any vocabulary and grammatical knowledge is really tedious at first. I'd recommend you do the core 2K/6K to about the 1500 mark, read Tae Kim, and then dive into Japanese literature. It still won't be easy in the beginning, but you'll improve steadily. Also try to find someone to practice speech with, or try to find an opportunity to get to Japan and be immersed.
Sorry if something along these lines has been posted already, I didn't read the whole thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 15:47:13 2015 No.13584624 File: 1.32 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13583368 I took some pics of the book earlier to show to a friend. This one is near the front.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 1 15:48:28 2015 No.13584634 File: 1.24 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13583368 This one is near the back. The Japs I have shown the book to said it is excellent.

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/jp/ - Otaku Culture