/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

How is it good game design to have me be killed by one fucking bullet, yet I have to spam bullets on the other girls for 2 minutes straight before they are defeated?

[Anonymous No.]

You wanted to play as the boss?

[Anonymous No.]

Because their bullets are slow and follow predefined patterns, whereas your bullets are fast and free flowing.

Asymmetric game design is not inherently a bad thing you fucking mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.]

because trying to make games realistic has nothing to do with making them fun

go back to your call of duty or grand theft auto or whatever

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983098
I don't think those are aiming for realism dude

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
if you want that kind of balance just play PoFV and get outta here

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
Get good

[Anonymous No.]

Pretend only the last bullet hits them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
I thought Reimu was meant to be one of the strongest 2hus.
Why does she die in one hit?

[noko No.]

http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=danmaku

Sources are included in th article, it just got paraphrased for better reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
That's like saying Galaga and Dig Dug are bad games

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983186
Because she doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
You're not actually hitting them, but you're right in that you should have a lifebar with only one life and no continues instead of one hit point and several lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
Gameplay

[Anonymous No.]

They are actually dodging all the bullets and the lifebar is merely their stamina bar. Whenever it zeroes, you get the chance to hit them without they dodging.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
There are thousands of things wrong with Touhou game design, but this is the one you choose to complain about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12985025
Ok what are some of those ``thousands'' of wrong things?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12985040
>>>/vr/2209678

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
imagine how annoying it would be if bosses started dodging your bullets

>Sakuya in StB

[Anonymous No.]

>>12985074
>-level design is 90% static popcorn enemies
Only played one or two of the early games.
>-grinding as the scoring gimmick is pretty lame
And this confirms it. He's just an angry hori player because only people that old still use the term grinding.
There is no need to read further.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12985222
why do you post this here, go tell it in his face you wuss

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
How is it good game design to have the player come back to life a certain number of times but the bosses all get to live only once?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
protip: you don't actually hit them- they evade your bullets same way you evade theirs. the game is simplified.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984921
This

[Anonymous No.]

>>12988004
But Touhou bosses have more lives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984921

Mokou must be a dirty fucking cheater then. She just lets herself get hit until she dies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989012

[Anonymous No.]

I want /v/ to leave

[Anonymous No.]

mistakes must be punished by death
if you want to tank hits and play a game like a sissy, take metroid or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984848
does it even matter? its basically the same thing

[Anonymous No.]

>>12987952
He is here retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984848
Why don't you read the spell card rules before talking?

Danmaku fights are like soft air but with pretty patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989146
**airsoft

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984848
This wouldn't work, because when you die the screen is cleared.

With a complete lifebar the amount of bullets getting at you would vary a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm just going to admit I'm new here and I'm curious, how the hell do I get into the Touhou series

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989668
Play the games
Read official print works

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
/v/ kun is invading again, kyaaa~ >w<

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989146
Why don't you read them yourself?

It's not stated in any official materials that spellcard ends after a single bullet hit (or predetermined number of hits), there is no detailed explanaition of spellcard fight's mechanic at all. But for example in SSiB fights were ending in one player completely broken and not able to move. It's closer to lifebar system than to hit count.

Also we already have lifebar system in fighting games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12984848
>>12984848
>lifebar with only one life and no continues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynz9CInZvsk

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu is just a human who can float, her bullets probably aren't all that strong (maybe the bullets aren't actual bullets, but rather something like glowing apple seeds) and humans can be physically hurt very easily. Youkai aren't human so they're probably stronger in a lot of ways compared to humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989746
But Reimu is a boss too...

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989804
Oh shit, you're right. I completely forgot for a second there. I don't know then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989746
>>12989823
The fight is among an attacker and a defender.
The attacker uses spellcards while the defender can only dodge or drain the attacker's stamina by attacking, that's why the attacker loses if their spell cards run out of time too, because the defender, for example a common human, was good enough to outplay and avoid the spellcard, so he gets rewarded with the victory.

This logic kinda works the same in the fighters' story mode too since the computer uses special boss-fight spell cards.

[Anonymous No.]

/v/-kun is talking about your favorite game, autists.

>>>/v/281757039

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989908
Don't care.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989908
What were you doing on /v/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989928
It's the best board to funpost on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989941
I think you should stay there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989060
It matters if you care about games and want them to be as good as possible. There is a huge difference between having one life and dying and reviving over and over because A) it makes sense, and B) it makes the game way more exciting, thus way more fun.

If you want to remove lives without lowering the strength of the attacks (which would be bad for touhou since it would hurt zun's beauty fetish) so that it's of a comparable difficulty to having multiple lives, you'll have to use a lifebar-type system. Ideally, the scoring system should be directly tied to the life system, so if you don't score you can't win.

>>12989146
0/10

>>12989654
Your post doesn't make sense. Why would screen clearing suddenly stop "working" because you have 5 hits in the form of a bar versus 5 hits in the form of lives? Why would the screen clear at all? Why would every bullet do the same amount of damage? The amount of bullets vary when you use bombs or kite a certain way or kill enemies in different orders with different timings, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12988004
A better question is: why does the heroine leave home with only two or three bombs while each boss has half a dozen or more?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989746
>weakness to various faith based and spiritual attacks, charms, wards
>While more susceptible to belief, youkai are less susceptible to things of physical nature
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Youkai

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990073
> Why would screen clearing suddenly stop "working"
It would be lame to clear the screen if you haven't died.
>Why would the screen clear at all?
Because getting hit by that 300 bullet cluster will fuck you up, while getting hit by an easy bullet would not be that much of a big deal. This way you are punishing people way more in the hardest parts of the game, instead of punishing mistakes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990099
>It would be lame to clear the screen if you haven't died.
Enemies and bosses can clear the screen, too.

>Because getting hit by that 300 bullet cluster will fuck you up, while getting hit by an easy bullet would not be that much of a big deal.
Getting shot through the head with a gun will fuck you up, while getting hit by a peeble would not be that much of a big deal. I still don't know what you're trying to say.

>This way you are punishing people way more in the hardest parts of the game, instead of punishing mistakes.
You're implying this is a problem. Big mistakes should mete out big damage. Why should a random fairy deal the same damage as a thousand year old god? Read the whole post.
>Why would every bullet do the same amount of damage?
One of touhou's biggest problems is how you can bomb through the second half of the game if you play well during the first half. Tying shot power to bombs isn't a good enough fix. You should be forced to play better during the harder parts. This is a good thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990144
>Getting shot through the head with a gun will fuck you up, while getting hit by a peeble would not be that much of a big deal. I still don't know what you're trying to say.
Are you pulling real life analogies to danmaku gameplay? You are officially as retarded as OP.

Getting hit by a pebble in Touhou is easier to avoid, so you should either get equal punishment or heavier punishment for it. That's why it's 1-hit KO.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990224
Well that didn't last long. Stay out of conversations you're too young to be involved in.

I guess the next touhou game will have all the fantastic elements of Japanese mythology tossed out and replaced with chavs throwing rocks to keep you happy.

[Anonymous No.]

Yeah, let's casualize Touhou even more.
Make it so the life bar regens over time too while we're at it. Gotta reward the player for getting hit by easy danmaku instead of punishing him. That's what the spell cards rules are about, power not beauty. You're a weakling? Well too bad your danmaku won't do jack shit to me and you're going to be defeated. And you Nitori stop throwing cucumbers because they won't make my lifebar budge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990261
This guy gets it.

Renerating health isn't bad if your health constantly drains and the only way to stop it is to perform well with the scoring system.

The games already reward you for getting hit by giving you a fresh stock of bombs, clearing the screen, an invincibility period, and a reduction in rank.

Now I want to see a spinoff game where getting hit by food-based danmaku makes you slower and bigger with a bigger hitbox.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990294
He was being facetious.

[Anonymous No.]

everyone in this thread: post your fucking scores or shut up

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990294
>getting hit by food-based danmaku makes you slower and bigger with a bigger hitbox.
My dick wants this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12991561
This poster is being facetious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12991574
Soda ska?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989941
That's /tv/, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>there will never be a mod that removes lives from the 2hu games

[Anonymous No.]

>>12992212
um well first thing I'm not an expert programmer and frankly I haven't had any compsci training beyond Java but couldn't you just go into the code and change a number to make the lives 0?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
If you don't like that mechanic you might like playing Guwange, it has a health bar system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12985074
Hahaha, oh wow, shumpfags are still salty at touhou just because is more popular?
I thought they just got over it in 2012

[Anonymous No.]

What always bothered me is danmakku and spell card rules are supposed to be a fight determined by beauty or whatever, right?

So the opponents always unleash these dazzling patterns with rainbow bullets, then Reimu or Marisa always win by shitting them out in a straight line for a few minutes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12997080
Always have to sacrifice certain things for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the canonical explanation of spell cards and duels was introduced afterwards, so it's more like it was written already acknowledging that the gameplay isn't a completely accurate representation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12997080
It's a good thing there is a multiplayer 2hu game where you fight like a boss. With no translation and no netplay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12992459
It's not that simple.

It's almost like dodging bullets~

[Anonymous No.]

>>12992212
Just use cheatengine

[Anonymous No.]

>>12998525
That won't modify the rest of the game to make up for having no lives. I already play the games on no lives, anyway. You should try it when the next touhou comes out. No practice, no replays, no continues, one life from the very beginning. If you get hit, restart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
You'll understand when you'll drink as much beer and make as much games as ZUN did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12990331
100m xd

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
I am way to shitty to be able to play the games, but I enjoy the art.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12992212
I made a little something the other day for DDC which removes all bombs and lives, as well as causing fragments to award points instead. There are some intriguing routes that can be devised from this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999092
Thats art from a fan game though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999092
Nice fridge
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999093
Care to share? DDC is a much better game when you avoid the utterly broken bomb gimmicks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999120
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999178
That is not me telling you to fuck off.

Also, it is not a nice fridge, it is on its last legs. i think I repaired it for the last time.

[None !xm3mvt/HfM No.]

>>12999171
Can do. I'll just need to create a patch and bat one second.

[None !xm3mvt/HfM No.]

Sorry for the delay, piece of shit Internet isn't helping.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n2at44tba4nmc78/
Extract into your th14 folder and run the .bat file. Ensure the executable is still th14.exe

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999274
Thanks. How did you make it?

[None !xm3mvt/HfM No.]

>>12999348
I used Cheat Engine to search the addresses where lives/bombs/fragments were located and replace instructions that set the starting variables, as well as ones that increased these variables.

Once I knew which lines of code to change, I then used it to modify the executable with those new variables and instructions. It's not easy, but it's certainly feasible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999371
Since when did cheat engine include a debugger?

[None !xm3mvt/HfM No.]

>>12999392
No idea when, version 6.3 has it.
Should actually update mine to 6.4, now that you mention it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999420
Speaking of updates, zun never fixed the shotslow bug with Marisa. He should just remove the option instead of leaving it in half-functional.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999545
Curious, how does that occur?

I've never had much a use for it myself, unforunately.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999628
Marisa's lasers don't reach the entire screen unless you mash the button at turbo controller speeds.
Shotslow is the superior input method. It is more fluid and natural, thus easier to control, thus getting you farther in the game and raising your scores. The naysayers will say it's no good because there's a delay after holding the button and before slowing down, but it's a non-issue if you're a good player since you're movements should be planned well in advance, and the focus button is still there if you want it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999628
Marisa's lasers don't reach the entire screen unless you mash the button at turbo controller speeds.

Shotslow is the superior input method. It is more fluid and natural, thus easier to control, thus getting you farther in the game and raising your scores. The naysayers will say it's no good because there's a delay after holding the button and before slowing down, but it's a non-issue if you're a good player since your movements should be planned well in advance, and the focus button is still there if you want it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12999716
Doubt I'll use it for IN/PCB, though it might help in UFO or other modern games where I end up running into shit on accident.

[Anonymous No.]

Hijacking this thread. What's the recommended way to play 2hu? Keyboard or controller? I tried a controller at first and it felt more natural with a keyboard, but I'm pretty bad so I don't know

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000187
Keyboard is a consensus, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000205
A friend of mine says he plays with his fighting arcade stick, is that legit or is he just crazy

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000220
ZUN has been shown using PS3 controllers.
Just use whatever you feel comfortable I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000187
easy mode: whatever you're most comfortable with.

icy mode: the top scorers all use arcade sticks. the exceptional keyboard or controller users do not disprove the rule.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000231
he only does it ironically
read the text he posts along with those images on his twitter

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000288
He does? I've seen him using them in the interviews too.
Now I'm curious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000187
I personally prefer controller, I've set the bindings so that I avoid having to move fingers around the buttons except for the directional pad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13001580
How exactly do you fire and bomb with only the dpad? Which axis do you disable for bombs and firing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13001832
He said he hasn't to move the fingers around, not that he doesn't use them.
If you keep X and [] as you bomb and slow, for example, all's fine. Maybe even the trigger keys can be it if you want to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13001854
But you shouldn't need to move your fingers to begin with. There are at least 12 buttons you can reach without moving if you include the dpad as four buttons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13001870
But you can keep your finger on top of X and [], to reach O and triangle you'd had to move it a bit. That might undermine your deathbomb timing, for instance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13001895
Maybe I'm just taking things too literally and failing to use imagination. Here's how I play:
tip of thumb on Square to shoot and focus, knuckle on X to bomb, R1 to focus. No moving around buttons or using finger if I want.

[Anonymous No.]

It isn't about hitting the oponnnent, it's about positioning you'reself to dodge enemy fire and continuing to do that for a prolonged set of time. Firing missles and shit is just there to make you feel powerful and confirm you're actually dodging and positioning yourself correctly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13011811
Then why isn't there significant enough differences in shot types to make the player's movement differ across types?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13000220
I've started playing with my qanba recently and I actually really enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13015013
That sounds dirty. Can I play with your qanba too, anon?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12989879
That's interesting. I wasn't aware of that. If that's the case though, then what are bombs? I thought those were classified as spellcards as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13016384
comeback mechanics

[Anonymous No.]

>>13016384
Bombs are literally called spellcards in some of the games. Although I don't know if that's just liberties taken with the translation or the original japanese term used.

From an in-game perspective, I'd say your shots are a simplified way of viewing your character's nonspells and bombs are a simplified way of executing spellcards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13016384
Spellcards and bombs are one and the same.

[Anonymous No.]

Here is good game design.
>multiplayer touhou shmup
>each player uses a different girl
>instead of bombs just being attacks, they also give specific abilities
>stages are designed so each girl's abilities must be used at the right times
>dialogue and bosses change based on how many girls are left in the party

[Anonymous No.]

>>13025491
So... a MMORPG?

[Anonymous No.]

I only recently played the PC-98 Touhous. Funny to see how far back some of the staples go back. The first few games were a bit rustic and the enemies were silly. I enjoyed Mystic Square a lot, way more than some of the more recent games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13025786
I didn't enjoy MS very much but I did enjoy LLS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13025643
The games you're thinking of use the label ``MMORPG'', but they are not actually role-playing games.

[Anonymous No.]

I recently stopped being a filthy secondary and started playing MoF and after a lot of efforts I finally managed to 1CC it on normal. Where should I go from there to step up my skills? I tried playing hard, I can get to the final stage using a shitton of continues, but I feel like this is stupid because I just bomb my way through. And the final boss is too ridiculous for me at this stage. Should I just play some other 2hus and 1CC them on normal?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028274
>using continues
Pick a different game and Never Use Continues. Not once, ever. No practice mode or replay watching, either.

>I feel like this is stupid because I just bomb my way through
That's touhou in a nutshell.

>And the final boss is too ridiculous for me
If you didn't use continues, you would have gained the skills necessary to win by restarting from the beginning and learning to handle the stages and boss patterns little by little, giving you more bombs to work with by then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028344
Only losers bomb

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028344
>Pick a different game and Never Use Continues. Not once, ever. No practice mode or replay watching, either.

I don't see how that would be beneficial. For exemple, many touhou games only get hard at stage 4 on normal and the first 3 levels are piss easy. If you never use continues, you'll just play the easy stages all over again and learn them by heart, to get rekt by a boss you still don't understand because you never practiced it. In the end, you spend most of your time playing shit you master that is too easy for you, instead of getting used to the more complicated stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028375
Of course you don't because a) you've never done it, and b) you didn't read the whole post. Please don't respond.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028389
I read >>13028344 and there was nothing in it to support the idea that ``Never Use Continues'' is beneficial. >>13028375 seems to make more sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028389
Getting enough bombs and lives on the earlier stages to breeze through the final boss is not being good you moron

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028404
>opinion

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028408
It's not just opinion. Using bombs and lives to sail through the later stages is objectively bad. You are a bad player if you do that. ZUN literally throws points at you like candy and when you bomb/die you lose any chance of collecting them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028417
>ZUN literally throws points at you like candy and when you bomb
Yeeeaaaah... How's your therapy going? Have they started the electroshocks yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028449
You're replying to things that don't exist in my post

[Anonymous No.]

>>12997080
Sometimes brute force is all the beauty you need.

>>12998456
What are you referring to exactly? I'd like to see this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028513

[Anonymous No.]

>>13035889
Thank you for your worthy contribution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12983077
It's not a multiplayer game. Your enemies don't need to be balanced.

Anyway you're arguably better than any of the boss characters because you have complete freedom of movement whilst they have to follow set attack patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13040105
Multiplayer games should not be balanced.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028389
I must say that you have no idea what you're talking about

You use continues if you can't get to the levels normally so you can play them in stage practice. That is one of the main reasons that continues exist. Its to help you learn each stage at your own pace. While credit-feeding is bad if your goal is to 1cc, at least you unlock those stages to play any time you want in practice mode, which will improve your skills at the hard parts and thus will make your chances of 1ccing higher.

Replays help by showing the years of thought and theory-crafting put into these games. These guys won't just show you how to beat the game. They will show you safe spots, ways to milk the bosses for points, the proper ways to score, good places to use bombs, ect. You will get better faster and more efficiently if you use the tools that are available to you.

You're way of playing isn't the most efficient at all. I mean, if it is efficient for you then keep doin' it! But still.

[Anonymous No.]

How is it good game design for green ufos to give me more power by the end of the stage than red ufos?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13049304
Subtle way of saying Sanae gives more than Reimu?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13049338
But she already has the stronger shot type if you get close.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13049338
More like gives moar head amirite?

Anyway. I guess ZUN just wanted to make green UFOs less useless. 1 life = 1 life + up to 3 bombs depending on usage, 1 bomb = 0 lives but 1 guaranteed bomb. If that's all UFOs did then green UFOs would rarely be better than red ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12992459
Sure. If you have the source code.

If you don't, then you have to know machine language and reverse engineering, or know how to patch/inject changes into the library files (DLLs in Windows). The Vsync patch is relatively simple, but dealing with the internal functions of the game are a whole other level of difficulty.

[EthanSilver No.]

>>12992212
Which one do you want done? It'll take me like 5 seconds to do...

Well, maybe more like 5 minutes. But whatever. Name your game, pay in Momijis. Them's the terms of the contract.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13028344
You probably think it's pretty funny, writing trollsy things like that but I think it's really harmful, your "there is only One True Way to play STGs and everything else is cheating" attitude (even if it's not real) is just going to scare off players and help, in some small, to make this dead niche genre even deader. Why don't you go on /v/ or /vr/ and troll there? If you actually liked STGs, you would try and get more people to enjoy them, not alienate non-players and players alike.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13060651
Casual-talk. Git gud and learn22hu.