Why did this have to turn to shit?

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Anonymous Sat May 31 19:29:29 2014 No.12160480 [DELETED]

Why did this have to turn to shit?

Anonymous Sat May 31 19:44:31 2014 No.12160509

That has to be a matter of opinion, I'm sure.

What isn't, though, is that every story either ends or turns to shit eventually, usually both of those things. Now, there are such things as fanworks and official re-boots, but it'll still happen, it'll still crap out no matter what it is. It's inevitable.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 19:56:24 2014 No.12160527 It didn't, you're just a retarded clown.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 19:58:10 2014 No.12160529 File: 64 KB, 462x642, 32.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You're shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 20:03:13 2014 No.12160541 Fan pressure, mainly. R07 was pressured to change certain things when fans cracked his codes before he intended them to be.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 20:03:48 2014 No.12160545 I remember even 2ch making fun of it going lol is this a joke but it looks like /jp/ is now just full of newfags

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 20:11:42 2014 No.12160557 File: 21 KB, 221x241, 1357771311950.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12160541 The hell are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 20:14:55 2014 No.12160564 >>12160557 Dunno but Erika is shit

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 22:05:18 2014 No.12160817 The Umineko anime was shit from the beginning, idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 22:30:47 2014 No.12160872 >>12160564 say that to my face not on the internet and see what happens

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 23:13:55 2014 No.12160933 The quality of each Sea Cat episode is tied directly to how much Beato is femdomming Battler in it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 31 23:15:11 2014 No.12160938 >>12160557 >>12160872 Erika is cute, shit personality though

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 1 06:39:27 2014 No.12161595 File: 43 KB, 428x147, Untitled3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Don't die yet. Haven't finished this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 1 07:03:21 2014 No.12161645 >>12161595 >>>/a/ is the anime board.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 1 07:05:16 2014 No.12161650 >>12160933 Third party here. I don't think I can really dispute this. EP3 was a rollercoaster of feels and rage, and it wasn't until Emo Beato that the series really started to fall flat for me She was just at her best when she was a cackling villain

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 2 10:22:47 2014 No.12164662 >>12161650 >cackling villain I never could see her as a villain, she was more like an antagonist.

Anonymous Mon Jun 2 15:25:04 2014 No.12165385

Beatrice was a very good antagonist and she was more interesting than Erika or Bern, though Erika was also entertaining. I just wish her character had a larger role in the core arcs (besides being one of the more important parts of the mystery of course)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:10:38 2014 No.12166555 bunp

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:16:46 2014 No.12166564 Haven't finished the show or any of the source/supplemental material. What's the best spoiler you can toss at me that will ruin my SEA cat experience?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:18:37 2014 No.12166568 >>12166564 Genji is a bullshitter and Beatrice had a daughter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:21:06 2014 No.12166571 >>12166568 That's not too bad. I don't really have enough context to see why the second thing matters. I'm looking for something really awful, that'll just ruin this franchise for me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:23:27 2014 No.12166576 >>12166564 Battler is actually alive but has amnesia and shows up in the last chapter. He also has grey hair now and another name.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:26:27 2014 No.12166581 >>12166576 That's kind of within expectations from what I've seen. I imagined the whole meta-shit was just some wacky figment of his imagination or something anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:48:08 2014 No.12166634 >>12161595 The only acceptable subs for the anime is damedame because the anime is a fucking joke and damedame puts stuff in the VN in it that was originally left out. Read the VN instead.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:52:56 2014 No.12166644 >>12166564 Beatrice is actually a man.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 03:57:49 2014 No.12166652 >>12166564 Shannon is the culprit. Kyrie is the real culprit.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 04:54:15 2014 No.12166713

I think a combination of R07 making way too many promises he had no hope of keeping in the first few chapters, and his ego growing a bit too big for his own good after past successes. It became pretty clear after a while when we were 5 or 6 episodes in and we were still getting more new questions than answers each new chapter that he was writing himself into a corner though. Also I imagine BT dying partway through didn't help.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 05:14:01 2014 No.12166737 >>12166713 I don't understand your argument. What promises were broken? Why would you want everything to be outright explained in 5 and 6? That's what 7 does, then 8 concludes the story.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 05:15:52 2014 No.12166741

>>12166737
But they didn't explain everything. They explained a few of the bigger things and then went "it's not important anyway" at almost everything else. Compare to Higurashi where you see some shit and then several episodes later he goes down and shows you an example of how basically every little thing actually went down in reality. A lot of us were expecting him to break down the first episodes in a similar manner so got really disappointed when he didn't.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 05:20:16 2014 No.12166745

>>12166741
Not saying you have to agree with me either, just the OP asked why it was shit so I explained why I found the end to be disappointing myself. Other people may have felt differently, obviously my expectations were also colored by the fact that I read each chapter more or less as it was released and participated in a lot of the discussions and theory exchange between them for a while so it was disappointing to me when this aspect was mostly ignored in the end.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 05:20:21 2014 No.12166746 >>12166741 You wanted Battler to break down? Didn't he do that multiple times? What wasn't explained?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 05:34:29 2014 No.12166758 >>12161595 what site is that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 06:19:10 2014 No.12166779 File: 27 KB, 250x250, 1349462139477.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12161595 >seaneko anime >streaming site >downloading from a streaming site >wmp

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 08:09:18 2014 No.12166884 File: 24 KB, 704x396, wow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12166741

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 09:23:57 2014 No.12166957 >>12160480 How do you know it turned to shit if you clearly didn't understand anything at all. Not even the endings. Of course you can't say something is shit if you don't can't even read it properly.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 09:29:26 2014 No.12166963

>>12166644
Beatrice & Battler were ressurected by triggering her personality and triggering his amnesia with the orphanage Ange built at the end of the story. Ange always wanted to use this last chance with it. If it worked, yay but if it wouldn've worked, she would let her past die.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 09:33:18 2014 No.12166969

>>12166713
>It became pretty clear after a while when we were 5 or 6 episodes in and we were still getting more new questions than answers each new chapter

Core Episodes are still no Answer Episodes...

> that he was writing himself into a corner though.

Alot of readers are dumbthinking themself into a corner or not thinking at all. Well of course such stories aren't for everyone but people still shitpost about anything with their wannabe autism because it's the world we live in. And because /jp/ discussions are garbage anyways

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 09:52:01 2014 No.12166992 >>12166969 >And because /jp/ discussions are garbage anyways ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 11:31:04 2014 No.12167133

>>12166969
What about the part where the guests straight up asked Genji if Beatrice had a daughter, but he lied? What about counting personas as actual people but ignoring Beatrice? What about Tohya being in a wheelchair because he sudoku'd? I mean really. At the end, R07 just didn't know what to do with the story anymore.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 11:41:38 2014 No.12167150

>>12167133

The Persona Beatrice didn't have children nor can she bear children. The Beatrice Persona wasn't ignored as the same as the other Personas wich weren't present anyways. Tohya being in a weelchair was a mental psychological thing, it's not that much uncommon in these topics either. He stood up at the end after Battler was "ressurected" with Ange's magic

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 12:29:05 2014 No.12167247 >>12167150 Ah, yes "magic". That whole thing he was trying to get Battler to disprove but in the end, the player had to choose that route if they wanted Ange to get a good ending.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 13:39:25 2014 No.12167348 >>12167247 Both endings are present. It's not decision about what ending should happen. Both happen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 13:46:54 2014 No.12167358 >>12167348 ??? Unless I'm remembering wrong Magic: Amakusa drives Ange to the boonies to be a hillbilly Trick: Amakusa becomes fish food

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 14:49:57 2014 No.12167468 >>12167358 >Magic: Amakusa drives Ange to the boonies to be a hillbilly I guess he wasn't mentioned once in this ending.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 15:45:18 2014 No.12167575 >>12166741 >But they didn't explain everything He clearly stated in an interview that he didn't want the answer to be something you could look up. Remember11 didn't explain everything either. You're supposed to think about it yourself.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 19:53:03 2014 No.12167969 >>12167133 >What about counting personas as actual people but ignoring Beatrice? Beatrice is a witch. Obviously she wouldn't be counted with humans.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 20:22:06 2014 No.12168003 >>12167969 You haven't even read umineko...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 20:43:44 2014 No.12168032 >>12167575 remember11 doesn't explain everything because they didn't know how to make a proper third route that explained everything without it being nonsensical/contradictory. since "that guy" is supposed to be stuck in the loop forever after all

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 20:59:45 2014 No.12168060 File: 82 KB, 752x587, true_umineko_for_slowpokes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is all you need to remember about Umineko. Move along now.

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 21:13:15 2014 No.12168082

>>12167575
I know what he "wanted" but what he ended up with was a story with all the juicy details unexplained and still vague as fuck.

For all those "Ryukishi is a genius" worshippers, note that the manga changed some details, that's good enough evidence that the novel isn't as complete or perfect as people claim. Also. can you explain to me what the point of that creepy doll was that Jessica saw in I think it was episode 6?

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 21:21:01 2014 No.12168094

The game started off with you trying to deny magic and trying to proof that magic doesnt exist.
Toward the end, Ange need to pick the "magic" for the good end.

It is basically the writer running away and choosing the delusion side all the while ignoring the main issue of the problem. We all know the only reason why battler has amnesia is due to him feeling guilty for the crime that he committed back on the island.
More like umiunko

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 21:24:00 2014 No.12168099 >>12167468 Not sure what you're trying to say. I just read Ch 8 again, and he picks up Ange after she talks to Okonogi.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 21:57:32 2014 No.12168173 File: 149 KB, 512x288, Watch Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 24 Online.mp4_000305513.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Jessica's death in episode 24makes no fucking sense. human skulls aren't that soft

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:00:12 2014 No.12168178 >>12168173 How could I forgot to check the spoiler image?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:02:46 2014 No.12168185 >>12168082 Except all the details the manga "revealed" was stuff anybody with half a brain knew already

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:03:21 2014 No.12168187

>>12160541
He really shouldnt have dont that. He should have just let it happen.

Anyway, I think it only really went to shit after episode 5. His friend died around that time, hence he lost motivation and had a bias towards magic aka escapism. Reality is his friend died, but you can believe in an afterlife, obviously this tied into his work where the "magic" ending was happier. It's about taking things with faith.

Isnt he a Christian or something?

>>12167575
No, R11 just needed to ship. Then they apparently forgot what the original plan was and just left us with a cliffhanger. Then they closed.

It still bothers me I cant get a definate answer, but I still enjoyed making theories and it still has me intested in where it was going. Also I/O had a batshit ending, so I am not sure if I would want an asnwer. Hell just look at Umineko for how badly the answers can be done.
>Without love it cannot be seen
>Fuck you goat, how dare you want an answer to a mystery!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:04:34 2014 No.12168189 >>12168187 >Fuck you goat, how dare you want an answer to a mystery! Not his fault you misunderstood the story

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:04:43 2014 No.12168191 >>12168187 *definite

Anonymous Tue Jun 3 22:39:49 2014 No.12168244

BT was the real author behind Umineko. After Higurashi's nonsensical Hinamizawa Syndrome premise was brought to light, he wanted to show R07 how to write a REAL mystery. Sadly, he passed away before being able to complete his magnum opus and R07 had to scramble to find a resolution to the story before the fans found out it was ghostwritten.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 12:21:29 2014 No.12172108 File: 48 KB, 292x595, 1401492312893.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12168244 >BT was the real author behind Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 16:25:15 2014 No.12172564 >>12168244 You do realize how both nonsensical and offensive this is, right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 16:56:37 2014 No.12172601 >>12168094 You didn't get it. At all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 17:58:03 2014 No.12172699 >>12172564 >Nonsensical >It only went to shit after he died

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 19:40:26 2014 No.12172903 File: 49 KB, 450x255, 1373879470505.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12172699 Believe it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 19:42:20 2014 No.12172907 >>12172699 Sounds legit

Anonymous Thu Jun 5 20:14:11 2014 No.12172967

>>12172699
First off, that sentence is nonsensical because it's painfully, blatantly obvious that Umineko was written with the core elements planned from the beginning. There is no "scrambling to find a solution" because it's obvious on a reread that the solution was there the whole time.

Second, it's offensive because you're using the death of a man's friend to insult his writing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 20:15:36 2014 No.12172969 Also Umineko didn't "go to shit" in the first place. It has a strong presence with the worst crime being the middle of 8 was merely mediocre.

Anonymous Thu Jun 5 21:27:00 2014 No.12173100

>>12172967
>>12172969
You must be a troll.

>Second, it's offensive because you're using the death of a man's friend to insult his writing.
But that's an opinion the author shares, dipshit.

"On July 10 of this year."
"BT passed away due to an illness."
"During the several months that passed since that day."
"I forgot the joy of writing."

>Also Umineko didn't "go to shit" in the first place. It has a strong presence with the worst crime being the middle of 8 was merely mediocre.
Again, R07 himself acknowledges that it went to shit in Chiru.

"That’s why these two stories were so troubling. Especially because in the end it will only be rated as one story *laugh*. If I should still be writing in ten years or more, I might go and rewrite Umineko all over again."

Please go spew your unsubstantiated bile elsewhere.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 5 21:35:25 2014 No.12173108 >>12173100 >openly admits the quality of the writing took a nosedive after BT died >confesses Umineko really consists of two separate hastily-stitched-together stories What more proof could one need

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 00:15:57 2014 No.12173372

>>12173100
>But that's an opinion the author shares, dipshit.

You're an idiot.

Tip: Not feeling like writing for a while out of grief for your friend is not at all saying things "went to shit"

>Again, R07 himself acknowledges that it went to shit in Chiru.

That isn't a statement of quality at all you idiot.

Pretty much every author ever who enjoys writing will often think of ways to rewrite their work, improve it in their mind, and so on.

>>12173108
>What more proof could one need

How about not using the death of another human being in a disgusting trolling attempt and deliberately misinterpreting another's words.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 00:25:04 2014 No.12173392 >>12173372 You're a faggot

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 00:35:40 2014 No.12173407

>>12173372
>Tip: Not feeling like writing for a while out of grief for your friend is not at all saying things "went to shit"
It's an admission that BT's death affected the quality of the writing, which was readily apparent to everyone either way. Why are you in denial over this?

>Pretty much every author ever who enjoys writing will often think of ways to rewrite their work, improve it in their mind, and so on.
If he was satisfied with the way the story came together, he wouldn't be talking about wanting to rewrite it from scratch mere months after completing it. Evidently, he realized that he was unable to completely conceal the seams between his and BT's narratives. But thankfully for him, there are always goats such as yourself eager and willing to swallow whatever garbage gets tossed their way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 00:47:42 2014 No.12173428 If only everything in life was as predictable as Umineko threads...

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 05:27:15 2014 No.12174140 Oh boy, we got people who actually believe the ''BT is the author of Umineko'' thing here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 09:43:51 2014 No.12174488 >>12160557 That's what I want to know. This is the first I've heard of it. I thought the popular fan theory was that he got depressed after BT died and the story went into a downward spiral from that point on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 09:44:41 2014 No.12174489 >>12174140 Prove he isn't.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:00:18 2014 No.12174522 Please mods. Please. Let us discuss umineko in /a/ again. This place is too full of fucking idiots.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:03:02 2014 No.12174526 The last episode should have been EP 1 through the eyes of Yasu.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:04:09 2014 No.12174528 >>12174526 EP1 is actually through the eyes of Yasu.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:15:19 2014 No.12174550 >>12174528 It was forever ago that I read it, but certainly not. Wasn't Yasu playing dead when the first murders were discovered?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:50:17 2014 No.12174623 >>12174550 Did you even finish the game? Battler is one of Yasu's personas.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 10:59:34 2014 No.12174635 >>12174550 It's through her eyes in the sense that he literally wrote it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:05:21 2014 No.12174646 I seriously hope it wasn't BT who invented this whole Yasu retardation.

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:16:10 2014 No.12174675

>>12174623
That's news to me. I never read ep 8 as by the time I finished 7 I was too confused and there was so much information that I wanted to re-read 1-7 again before tackling 8. That spoiler sounds like really silly it makes me want to strangle r07.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:32:45 2014 No.12174702 >>12174675 Sorry, I was joking. You weren't supposed to take that seriously.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:43:10 2014 No.12174723 >>12173407 >It's an admission that BT's death affected the quality of the writing, which was readily apparent to everyone either way. Why are you in denial over this? Because fuck you for using another humans beings death to complain about a book.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:47:54 2014 No.12174730 >>12174723 It's not a complaint, just an observation. Go troll elsewhere if you have no valid arguments to make.

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:48:13 2014 No.12174731

>>12173407
>If he was satisfied with the way the story came together, he wouldn't be talking about wanting to rewrite it from scratch mere months after completing it.

You're an idiot, for one thing you took that quote out of context.

He was talking about how for Umineko he wrote "two stories" as in the fantasy narrative, and the "real events" that took place behind it. The "rewrite" is pretty clearly talking about revealing something about the "first narrative" that the fantasy narrative was put over.

> Evidently, he realized that he was unable to completely conceal the seams between his and BT's narratives.

BT DID NOT WRITE UMINEKO YOU MORON.

This is entirely idiotic. You clearly haven't actually read Umineko, because it's incredibly obvious that the answer was there from the start.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:49:22 2014 No.12174734 >>12174730 It's not an observation. It's a false, offensive statement because you're butthurt about not understanding the answer

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 11:59:39 2014 No.12174767 >>12174646 Oh please explain to me how it's "retarded" >in b4 DID, Killing everyone because Battler didn't bring a pony, and other wrong things, etc.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 12:20:04 2014 No.12174805 >>12168173 >>12168178 It makes more sense in the VN. By the time he kicked her, he was supposed to be going close to terminal velocity, also the head exploding like that is just Deen QUALITY.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 12:21:51 2014 No.12174807 >>12173372 Please kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 12:23:03 2014 No.12174808 >>12174522 Mods haven't banned Umineko threads in /a/ for a while now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 12:47:18 2014 No.12174857 >>12174808 <Good>

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 14:24:14 2014 No.12175037 File: 144 KB, 385x307, 13856838555253.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12174489 Prove he is.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 15:03:41 2014 No.12175117 >>12160480 i want to fug beato.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 15:25:46 2014 No.12175154 >>12175117 Get in line.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 16:40:00 2014 No.12175339 >>12174734 stop saying "offensive" you worthless piece of shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 17:39:57 2014 No.12175459 >>12175339 Then stop saying disgusting things.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 17:51:16 2014 No.12175488 >>12175459 nigger

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 19:37:27 2014 No.12175708 >>12174734 The only thing that's offensive here is you trying to discredit the late BT.

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 20:06:19 2014 No.12175760

>>12168189
Surely it must be the authors fault if the story gets too fuzzy.

The blending of magic and reality was too excessive, and allows us to make any crazy assumptions because there is no restrictions.

They found Maria's jaw bone? Well, magic lies by narrator. Maria did in fact survive and went to hawaii.

Eva survived? Nah, Ange was just crazy and wished she had survived to blame her. All sections with Eva is magic and meta.

What the story needed, was a well defined separation of magic and reality. Like "everything outside the family meeting days is the truth". Then we'd know flashbacks were true, and the events after the gameboards was true.

But no, R07 wanted us to think, so he gave us almost complete freedom in making our own selection of truths.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 20:38:19 2014 No.12175800 >>12174522 The only people who ever seriously discussed Umineko were idiots.

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 21:39:22 2014 No.12175890

>>12175760
You're just spouting stupid crap that doesn't actually fit in with the story.

>The blending of magic and reality was too excessive, and allows us to make any crazy assumptions because there is no restrictions.

There are restrictions. The story has thematic points and rules established in the fiction. The fact that you personally fail to get it isn't a failing of the story.

>They found Maria's jaw bone? Well, magic lies by narrator. Maria did in fact survive and went to hawaii.
>Eva survived? Nah, Ange was just crazy and wished she had survived to blame her. All sections with Eva is magic and meta.

What reason does the narration have to lie about these things. Especially since if they're *not* true they undermine thematic and dramatic points of the story. Those plot points are presented as clues to solve the larger riddle of Umineko, as clues they must be true because you can't solve a puzzle that lies to you. (And no, Umineko does not like in any clues the story gives you)

>What the story needed, was a well defined separation of magic and reality.

That went out the window the moment Beatrice showed up in the wrap party in EP1. There was always going to be ambiguity about "Magic" and "Reality", it's part of the thematic point of the story. The fact that you fail to understand these points is your fault.

Anonymous Fri Jun 6 21:40:44 2014 No.12175892

>>12175760
>But no, R07 wanted us to think, so he gave us almost complete freedom in making our own selection of truths.

Wrong. We do not have "complete freedom."

The answer to Umineko must match the clues presented in the narrative, as well as the proper dramatic structure for what the story was leading to.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 21:41:44 2014 No.12175894 >>12175708 Says the one pissing on his grave.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 23:16:14 2014 No.12176037 >>12175894 Was that supposed to be an intentionally ironic statement? I'm trying to give credit where it's due. You're just defaming the deceased.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 6 23:20:34 2014 No.12176047 >>12174731 >BT DID NOT WRITE UMINEKO BT wrote Umineko, R07 write Chiru. The tonal and thematic rifts between the two works should render it obvious that they were the products of two separate minds.

Anonymous Sat Jun 7 04:24:18 2014 No.12176649

Quite against how Umineko turned out myself. It took a solid month and a half or so to summon the will to read through episode 7, another three just to start episode 8. This is coming from someone who voraciously read 1-5 in one sitting the first time through, and many times after. He tried to do something neat with the mystery genre, but I believe a serious lack of competency prevented him from reaching anything of real value. He would have been properly lauded if he did not overestimate his station as a writer and simply performed the tried and true, don't fix what isn't broken mystery methodologies.

Endings that leave the reader to piece everything together after the fact work well in more cohesive stories. Even really out in left field stories like the Infinity series can be mapped out quickly, once you understand the properties of the world. In Umineko, the meta and real world intersecting so often, questions as to whether the real world was truly the real world or just another meta, questions as to how much the meta world should be considered as valid additions to the solution to the puzzle, questions as to what is left to interpretation, and what should be taken at face value, they all seem to coalesce and then separate with no real rhyme or reason.

It feels like it's agonizingly speculatory and esoteric not to inspire discourse and cogent reasoning, but because the author didn't really know where they wanted to proceed with the story. 1-4 and 5-8 are quite different beasts, almost as if there was a serious paradigm shift in the authors life that altered the story irreparably. They could damn near exist as their own stand alone things with some tweaks, totally divorced from one another, and that is a problem.

I wish the guy the best in his future endeavors, but as ridiculous as Higurashi ended up being, at least it had the decency to resolve itself. And that alone makes it the superior of the two stories.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 06:54:04 2014 No.12177361 File: 9 KB, 257x249, 1376078810225.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12175117 which one?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 06:57:39 2014 No.12177376 >>12177361 epic /a/ reaction image

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 08:52:33 2014 No.12178092 File: 116 KB, 975x1163, whoneedsbattler.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 15:09:14 2014 No.12179083 >>12167247 Battler also had no problem talking with the Stakes, an older self of his sister, a butler appearing out of nowhere, energy blade - wielding inquisitors and so on. But then he denies magic...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 15:27:01 2014 No.12179109 >>12179083 But this contradiction is addressed as early as EP2. Battler himself comments on it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 17:40:22 2014 No.12179554 File: 1.18 MB, 900x1926, umi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Jun 7 18:39:57 2014 No.12179665

>>12175890
>What reason does the narration have to lie about these things.

There would be a reason to lie, if R07 wanted to throw a happy ending suddenly. But instead of relying on rules in the writing, we have to analyze if R07 is the kind of guy that would want a happy end or not. And that is my complaint, that we have to analyze the writer to sort out lies from truth.

>>12175892
You can match the clues in so many ways, without knowing if it is the answer.

For example, what set off the bomb? It could have been Eva, Battler and Yasu agreeing that the terrible events needed to be hidden from the world and that they should blow all evidence of it away and toss out some bottles of magic stories. Or it could have been as shown that a fight broke out over not trusting Yasu.

It all boils down to if clues can be taken as truth, or just as a hint of the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:11:20 2014 No.12179733 We all know already it's a half-sad/happy ending and why.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:45:19 2014 No.12179794 >>12179733 Because R07 didn't know what the fuck he should do with the story so he invented a retarded concept so he wouldn't need to tell the player what the answer is.

Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:45:55 2014 No.12179796

>>12179665
>You can match the clues in so many ways, without knowing if it is the answer.

No, you can not. All the clues point to a single answer. Every single element of the answer was figured out by people beforehand before it was revealed in the story

>For example, what set off the bomb?

Who cares? The story wasn't concerned by unimportant little minutia like that. What matters is that the bomb exists and how people react to it going off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:47:19 2014 No.12179803 >>12179794 >Because R07 didn't know what the fuck he should do with the story so he invented a retarded concept so he wouldn't need to tell the player what the answer is. But he did tell us the answer. Surely you can add 1+1 anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:49:26 2014 No.12179808 >>12179803 I thought everyone knew it was a severe case of amnesia but you can see people pointing out fingers to everyone possible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 19:56:33 2014 No.12179823 >>12179808 >amnesia probably aliens and flying garbage if i connect it the way you maybe did

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 20:00:39 2014 No.12179836 Everyone knows there are 3 survivors in umineko.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 7 21:23:04 2014 No.12179997 R07 wanted to end the story with Rokkenjima Syndrome, but couldn't since BT already made fun of the concept in one of the earlier episodes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 05:54:38 2014 No.12180834 File: 479 KB, 800x987, 901cbbac35677dd78e2765ade10afc34be75ba8d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Does anyobody here know some good parodies of Umineko?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 07:02:56 2014 No.12180941 >>12180834 You could try "And Then There Were None", I think it's by a woman named Christa or whatever.

Anonymous Sun Jun 8 07:56:13 2014 No.12181017

>>12179796
Who cares? So this is a mystery where why and how is not important, only who?

We all know the premise. Threats or gold can make anyone on the island kill. We have to choose to believe that R07 did show us the truth in ep7, or we are stuck with no information at all on what happened.

But was all of it truth, or truth mixed with lies?

Anonymous Sun Jun 8 08:19:52 2014 No.12181067

>>12181017

If you know what EP7 means, you can think much further than just EP7 then. I mean, are you thinking at all? You probably didn't even understood EP7.

There is alot why, how and who. What do you want more? Straight answers? You can't just accept EP7 because it's made for people who don't think at all and it should help much more people of you than before already. Just because you can't think for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 08:40:29 2014 No.12181118 >>12179836 Let's say 4, but Eva dies later.

Anonymous Sun Jun 8 09:19:21 2014 No.12181177
File: 37 KB, 200x200, 1337324340303.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12181067
This goat can't be serious.

EP7 served up all the "solutions" as explicitly as possible on a silver platter and retards like yourself just swallowed it all up without thinking any further about whether or not they made any sense.

The best part is seeing the same idiots then pat themselves on the back thinking they figured it all out when in fact all they did was take R07's circuitous bullshit at face value.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 11:40:01 2014 No.12181437 File: 102 KB, 490x720, 1384456955094.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12180834

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 11:43:45 2014 No.12181451 >>12181437 mentally disabled retard girls can't wear the crest

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 11:44:28 2014 No.12181455 >>12181437 I want to fuck both of them so bad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:13:27 2014 No.12181544 >>12181437 Those socks are retarded, I'm glad the sprite is cut out at waist level in the VN.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:26:16 2014 No.12181582 >>12174675 An amnesia Battler wrote umineko1-7. Umineko 1-7 gameboard specifically were written by him. Ange need to pick delusion(magic) for the good end. Shit theme, shit story.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:27:43 2014 No.12181586 >>12181582 How did he develop amnesia?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:32:33 2014 No.12181592 >>12181582 EP1-2 aren't written by him. As for EP7, it's up in the air.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:32:44 2014 No.12181593 >>12181586 Escaped from Island Killed by a fucking car Cant accept the loss of his homo dickless transgender boyfriend Cant accept his murderous parents

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:35:23 2014 No.12181602 >>12181593 So he got butthurt and went full autistic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 12:59:21 2014 No.12181633 File: 74 KB, 196x480, jes copy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12181544 And it's no difference between original ans PS3 sprites, she has them there too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 13:01:39 2014 No.12181637 File: 152 KB, 600x844, emangaaniimoutoyr7jn4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12181602 instead of simply returning to Ange and at least preventing her life from becoming shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 13:34:36 2014 No.12181706 File: 126 KB, 500x708, Ange-Ushiromiya-umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-32715573-500-708.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12181544 Guess you don't like Ange's getup then?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 14:02:55 2014 No.12181740 >>12181706 ZR != granny socks

Anonymous Sun Jun 8 14:05:53 2014 No.12181742

>>12181067
I believe my problem is that I think too much.

For example, Battler and Yasu heading off in a boat must mean Yasu never did anything on the island that was unforgivable for Battler. Which assumingly killing anyone would be, based on 8 episodes of "I don't want to believe one of the people on the island is a killer".

Both Yasu and Battler were mystery fans. It seems quite likely that they would get together and present mysteries to each other and try and solve them. Yasu loving Battler would then have a shot at mixing in this information in the mysteries Yasu is going to present to Battler, and see if he realizes Yasu's true feelings. This is then later represented by the meta world. Beatrice and Battler playing games, is just a mirror of Yasu and Battler sitting on the island playing a game of "solve Yasu's mystery".

This is an answer that follows many of the games hints. But I still do not get them all to match up. One of them being the recently pointed out fact that the stories do not contain Ange. Why wouldn't they contain Ange if it would be a mystery about the island meeting, written in advance?

Overall I'm stuck. I can make a sane answer that does not fit, or I can say "Insane people on island killing others" and it all fits because they are insane and need no reasons to kill people they love.

Anonymous Sun Jun 8 15:08:16 2014 No.12181835

>>12181177
>EP7 served up all the "solutions" as explicitly as possible on a silver platter and retards like yourself just swallowed it all up without thinking any further about whether or not they made any sense.

EP7 explicitly skipped over two years in Yasu's life between solving the Epitaph and the incident starting, two years that were said to be very important and painful. It then said that you can figure out these two years by reading the previous episodes.

It also told almost nothing about Kanon, despite him being extremely important in the question arcs.

The single most *important* part of Yasu's motivation is glossed over and only pointed to near the very end of the Tea Party (the origin of the "I'm Furniture" line)

EP7 was, as the author said, a key rather then a straight up answer.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 8 20:34:28 2014 No.12182416 >>12181637 Who cares about Ange though

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 04:46:13 2014 No.12182871 >>12182416 I'm quite sure Battler would have if not for his amnesia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 05:04:16 2014 No.12182931 >>12182871 He doesn't. He only cares about beato and who can blame him

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 05:23:46 2014 No.12182957 >>12182931 Beato is dead. Ange is alive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 07:57:00 2014 No.12183198 >>12182957 you can still care about dead people

Anonymous Mon Jun 9 09:17:32 2014 No.12183351

>>12182871
Battler doesn't care. If he did, he would have seen Ange earlier instead of getting all emo about his memories. He was too emo to see Ange because of "muh painful memories" but that didn't stop him from keep writing stories about it. The dude left Ange when she needed him the most.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 11:26:45 2014 No.12183573 >>12183351 It's not Battler though. Tohya is basically a completely different person then Battler. He was deeply afraid that meeting Ange would cause him to basically die and vanish.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 12:53:07 2014 No.12183709 >>12172564 bt was beatrice. ryukishi is auaurora. beatrice was the original author of the mystery, then she died. auaurora claims she solved the mystery and started writing her own fanfics. just like ryukishi

Anonymous Mon Jun 9 13:11:10 2014 No.12183733

>>12183573
>Tohya is basically a completely different person then Battler.

He "knows" he is Battler.

>He was deeply afraid that meeting Ange would cause him to basically die and vanish.

Again, that didn't stop him from reliving those memories in his stories. He doesn't even want to forget all that much. He didn't have the decency to tell Ange that he, himself, is not Battler anymore.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 13:29:14 2014 No.12183750 The whole yasu theory with different personas is really really stupid and if you believe in that theory you are stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 13:46:59 2014 No.12183780 >>12183750 Battler the author believed in it. Is he stupid?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 14:20:06 2014 No.12183850 >>12183709 I see, that makes a lot of sense.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:02:08 2014 No.12184051 >>12183750 It's not a theory it's the truth and it's not stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:03:50 2014 No.12184062 >>12184051 It may be the truth, but it's still stupid as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:06:41 2014 No.12184065 File: 162 KB, 525x480, beatoface.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12184051 This is what goats actually believe.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:07:06 2014 No.12184068 >>12184062 And how is it stupid? Let me guess, you think Yasu singlehandedly fooled everyone on the island or think the red truth was 100% literal at all times and not subjective or something wrong like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:08:58 2014 No.12184069 >>12184068 How are split-personalities NOT stupid? I played through the entire game hoping, in my heart of hearts, that the resolution wouldn't rely on that lazy, played out trope.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:16:59 2014 No.12184082 >>12184069 >How are split-personalities NOT stupid? Yasu does not have split personalities.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:36:47 2014 No.12184111 >>12184082 Pedant please. Multiple identity disorder = split-personalities.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 16:56:18 2014 No.12184166 File: 24 KB, 424x480, 4694661_m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12184065

Anonymous Mon Jun 9 17:07:26 2014 No.12184200

>>12184111
I think it is all about bullshitting.

Yasu had created a life for Shannon and a life for Kanon, which made these count as 2 people (or whatever the counter was). Now if Yasu says "Screw Kanon, I can't be bothered with his life." then Kanon *dies*.

So why didn't Yasu count? Because Yasu had quit bothering with Yasu and let that *person* die.

So why didn't Beatrice count? Probably because she was a witch and not a person.

In other words, no disorder, just regular dress up and live someone elses life. You are allowed to if you are mentally confused.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 9 17:11:06 2014 No.12184207 >>12184111 Yasu does not have multiple personalities. She puts on different personas, but it's no different then an actor playing different roles.

Anonymous Mon Jun 9 19:20:46 2014 No.12184457

>>12184200
>>12184207
I think you can take the entire ceremony and murder roulette as proof that Yasu takes her various personas dead seriously. Since the whole purpose was to determine which identity would survive to have their love fulfilled, you could argue that Yasu appears to consider them all equally genuine, rather than just thinking of them as mere roles to play.

Anonymous Mon Jun 9 23:43:55 2014 No.12184971

I dropped Umineko but,

Kanon/Shanon/Beato/Yasu/Lion are one person right?

Yasu/Beto loves Battler
Kanon loves Jessica
Shannon loves George

I heard at the end Shannon won, but whatever happened to that thing with William and Lion?

Has he done damage control with this series?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 10 01:11:06 2014 No.12185132 >>12184971 >whatever happened to that thing with William and Lion Fiction written by amnesia Battler

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 10 03:23:21 2014 No.12185346 Bump because I'm still reading the manga.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 10 13:56:58 2014 No.12186669 >>12184971 The details disappear fast from memory. But I'm pretty sure back when Battler last visited there was no Kanon and they were all just hanging out with Shanon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 10 22:42:19 2014 No.12187659 File: 161 KB, 800x1176, 17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Wait. Never saw this tail before. Is there any reason why she have it?

Anonymous Tue Jun 10 22:45:48 2014 No.12187667
File: 149 KB, 512x288, cute witches being cute.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12187659
Witches don't have gender. They want to looked like little girls like /a/ so they did. I realize how horrible persons they are after reading
http://www.mangawindow.com/manga/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-4-alliance-of-the-golden-witch/v6/c26.3/all
I mean, they looked like little girls but their thougth are hideous, just like /a/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 10 22:58:23 2014 No.12187684 File: 84 KB, 490x255, moar cute girls being cute.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 11 02:04:16 2014 No.12187941 >>12187659 She's a cat

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 00:44:32 2014 No.12189682 File: 203 KB, 728x1049, 5 16 21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why this is so exciting?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 00:45:51 2014 No.12189684 File: 493 KB, 1456x1035, 5 16 23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying you didn't hear Resonance while reading this page.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 01:00:41 2014 No.12189697 Did Umineko ever get an actual ending?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 11:51:28 2014 No.12190473 >>12189697 Hoping the manga will have an ending.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 13:03:46 2014 No.12190588 >>12190473 and maybe not a total downer ending, too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 13:07:43 2014 No.12190594 >>12190588 >>>/r/this-story-will-not-have-a-happy-ending

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 13:20:01 2014 No.12190612 >>12189697 It would be hilarious if the manga gives the middle finger the same way the VN did.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 13:47:06 2014 No.12190686 >>12189697 Yes. It ended in Episode 8.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 13:51:08 2014 No.12190693 >>12190473 The manga will have the same ending as the VN did.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:06:06 2014 No.12190822 File: 19 KB, 679x427, 1241314932914.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12181437 >Rosa Oh my god I need to read an Aunt doujin now

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:09:45 2014 No.12190827 File: 226 KB, 845x1150, 1364157760915.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12190822 >feelio when there is no doujinshi featuring Rosa. Fucking nips

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:12:45 2014 No.12190831 File: 2.34 MB, 2830x1564, 02abf29cb886489dc67964215874a866.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12190827 It's not fair It's just not fucking fair

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:14:35 2014 No.12190834 >>12190827 Why would you lust after a single mom

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:18:43 2014 No.12190841 Maria is probably Kinzo and Rosa's daughter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:29:20 2014 No.12190859 >>12190834 3d =/= 2d For fucks sake, even Virgilia got a doujin. EVEN VIRGILIA. WHY SO LITTLE AUNT LOVE

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:47:41 2014 No.12190892 File: 131 KB, 749x800, 20100212245074.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12190831

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 15:50:24 2014 No.12190903 >>12190827 I bet this is that shakespeare nerd girl and not actually rosa

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:00:55 2014 No.12191107 >>12190903 who

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:23:43 2014 No.12191164 File: 192 KB, 850x1133, boomheadshot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12190903 Then have Rosa doing Rosa things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:37:43 2014 No.12191190 >>12191164 Like beating up Maria?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:46:43 2014 No.12191211 File: 145 KB, 728x765, 1274369608299.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >You will never make a happy family with Rosa and Maria

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:58:18 2014 No.12191227 >>12191211 You'd need to get rid of Rosa to have a happy family with Maria.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 17:59:40 2014 No.12191229 >>12191227 She's a good woman at heart, she just needs a good man to get her head straight with regular, passionate, and lovey-dovey dickings

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 18:01:16 2014 No.12191230 >>12190841 Maria is Yasu. It is clearly shown in the game. The bottled stories were signed Maria, but they were written by Yasu. Mario = Yasu proven.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 12 18:02:49 2014 No.12191232 >>12191230 Too much Mario as a child I guess. Not sure why my hands wrote Mario instead of Maria.

Anonymous Thu Jun 12 18:09:02 2014 No.12191239
File: 284 KB, 728x561, 1399352522072.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12191211
maria's upbringing already failed to a point that there's no way in hell you can correct her mental disabilities
with the age of 14 she'll do drugs and become a prostitute because of the lacking common sense and qualities
i'm 90% sure that this kind of mental issue of her is due to child abuse

Anonymous Thu Jun 12 18:29:43 2014 No.12191281
File: 259 KB, 1024x768, 1268721354291.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12191239

Don't be silly, she's plenty salvageable. She just need Rosa to be more loving and more understanding. Rosa's too tightly wound up what with the shame of being a single mother and having to deal with the pressure of parenthood by herself.

Some dickings for Rosa and some family bonding is all that's needed to patch up that family. They love eachother at heart, Rosa just lets the stress get to her.

Anonymous Thu Jun 12 18:33:22 2014 No.12191286
File: 124 KB, 1043x751, 572713ea74a12807551ac1e0676eed19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12175760

This exactly is the problem. R07 muddled things so much that there was literally nothing reliably real anymore, nothing we could count on. That is terrible writing for a mystery author. Solving a puzzle like that is like solving an equation with only unknown variables in it, all you can get out of it is unknowns. What killed Umineko first and foremost is that R07 was so adamant that nobody should solve it, that he covered it under a gigantic pile of red herrings that choked the life out of the story.

Umineko is excellently written, but terribly plotted. Its structure is a jumble and its internal rules broken so often that they might as well not exist. Only the blindest of fanboys can keep up interest in a story that's such a hopeless self-defeating mess.

It's a shame, because it was so good at the start. We all were there. Episodes 1-3, all of us thought this was a masterpiece. Then came episode 4 and burned down the house. Then came episodes 5-8 and each one of them pissed on the ashes more than the previous one. The tragedy is in that this actually had potential. If it had been a disaster from the start, we wouldn't post about it anymore.

Anonymous Fri Jun 13 02:48:52 2014 No.12192144

>>12191229
Agreed, a stable relationship with a man loving her would really help Rosa. The other moms are more complicated, though.
Natsuhi would have to clear that whole Yasu story - IF Yasu (and Jessica) would be able to forgive her there might be the chance for a happy family life for her.
Eva has a loving husband, no problems there, but she seriously needs to change the way she pampers George. maybe she should let Hideyoshi do more of the parenting part. Or accept that George can go his own way by now.
Kyrie.. well, she clearly has to do something about that pathologic jealously.. and she, Rudolf and Battler need a long, long talking to fix that family after what Rudolf did...

Anonymous Fri Jun 13 04:24:05 2014 No.12192278

>>12191286
>This exactly is the problem. R07 muddled things so much that there was literally nothing reliably real anymore, nothing we could count on.

No. He did not.

>What killed Umineko first and foremost is that R07 was so adamant that nobody should solve it, that he covered it under a gigantic pile of red herrings that choked the life out of the story.

Actually no, there are very few red herrings in Umineko

>its internal rules broken so often that they might as well not exist.

No they are not.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 05:08:45 2014 No.12192365 >>12191232 Great, now i have that image in my head ... Maria jumping across Rokkenjima, collecting coins, stomping turtles and throwing their shells at the family, all the time funny music is playing in the background...

Anonymous Fri Jun 13 13:12:05 2014 No.12193151

>>12192278
I would have liked it more if there had been a much more clear reason presented for the events.

For example if Yasu had been portrayed as afraid of losing the gold he had earned, and decided to kill the family to ensure his gold is safe. Or if Yasu had been portrayed as very poorly treated by the family, so she wanted revenge.

But as it is now, it just feels like Yasu gave up when he was doing the best (had 3 love interest and pockets full of money) and decided to end everything without any reason.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 13:14:06 2014 No.12193155 I already know what happens in the end, but I stopped at chapter 5. Should I bother with it or just go read Higurashi?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 13:29:54 2014 No.12193181 >>12193155 I suggest reading up to and including EP7. EP8 is almost completely irrelevant to the mystery.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 13:38:16 2014 No.12193200 >>12193155 I could've even make it through chapter 5. My time is limited so I haven't looked into and started reading any more VNs, sadly

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 14:10:34 2014 No.12193247 >>12193155 Umineko's 7 and 8 are better than the whole higurashi, so.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 13 14:51:56 2014 No.12193301 File: 647 KB, 800x522, 214225.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Jun 13 15:40:20 2014 No.12193399

>>12193151
>I would have liked it more if there had been a much more clear reason presented for the events.

There were very clear reason for the events.

>For example if Yasu had been portrayed as afraid of losing the gold he had earned, and decided to kill the family to ensure his gold is safe.

lol what

>Or if Yasu had been portrayed as very poorly treated by the family

Uhh yes she was. Did you forget the scene in 2 where Shannon was forced to clean for hours without food or rest because she said "I'm trying to do a good job." She resented the Ushiromiya's a *ton*

>it just feels like Yasu gave up when he was doing the best

Uh except for the part where she learned a large part of her life was a lie, that ended up concidering herself a subhuman freak, the part where she learned that her father was a horrible evil rapist and she couldn't do anything about it. How her entire life had been controlled just to make said rapist feel a little better about himself before he died.

Oh yeah to top it off she's basically trapped by a massive countdown where she knows the people she loves will figure it all out... plus she thinks she's no better then her rapist father for being attracted to her cousins!

So no, Yasu was not doing particularly well.

Anonymous Fri Jun 13 17:07:56 2014 No.12193498

>>12193399
I always wondered how the family would have reacted if Yasu told them all.
For Krauss and Natsuhi it would be a catastrophe, that much is clear.
Jessica and George would be quite shocked realizing that the persons they love are one and the same, but as much as they would be hurt i could see them forgiving Yasu, though it probably would require some time. Same goes for Battler.
Jessica's relation to her parents would also most probably be severely damaged when she learns what they did, still i think she would maybe try to negotiate some sort of peace between Natsuhi and Yasu (as for Yasu could probably bring her mother to jail, what on the other hand likely would destroy every remaining relationship between Yasu and Jessica...)
Kinzo's reputation would be completely destroyed.
No idea how the rest would react, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 05:33:30 2014 No.12194779 >>12193301 Is Ange about to shoot Beato?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 07:26:13 2014 No.12194922 >>12194779 That nose though

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 10:13:56 2014 No.12195116

>>12193399
>Did you forget the scene in 2 where Shannon was forced to clean for hours without food or rest because she said "I'm trying to do a good job."

I'm saying more was needed. Did we see Kraus being mean? Rudolf? It feels like the majority of the family did not seem to cause Yasu any special grief.

And Yasu's life was not because of Kinzo, but because of Nanjou and Genji trying to give him as good life as possible considering the situation. Nothing prior to Yasu solving the riddle seem to hint at any serious problems.

The chance to be found out was also about to no longer matter. If Shannon married George, Kanon could simply "quit" and leave. Shannon could have said no thanks to George, and "quit" later as well. Yasu had the money and did not need to stay and risk getting found out.

Because the story is unclear, we both end up with opposite views on how the situation was.

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 10:46:45 2014 No.12195193 [DELETED]

The only reason why Yasu bother staying is because the person she truly loved was Battler. George and Jessica was just there as a convenient time wasters until he returned. That said, Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjou are shitbags. I cannot believe the excuses they gave for Kinzo. The thought that Yasu is both Battler's aunt and cousin along with a body that's imperfect because of Natsuhi's inferior complex made her bitter towards the whole family.

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 10:48:33 2014 No.12195196

The only reason why Yasu bother staying is because the person she truly loved was Battler. George and Jessica was just there as a convenient time wasters until he returned. That said, Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjou are shitbags. I cannot believe the excuses they gave for Kinzo. The thought that Yasu is both Battler's aunt and cousin along with a body that's imperfect because of Natsuhi's inferiority complex made her bitter towards the whole family.

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 14:44:00 2014 No.12195801
File: 75 KB, 450x567, syanojeshi01sy9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>12195196
I don't think Yasu saw Jessica and George just as "time wasters".
Jessica was one of the few pwersons who treated her as a friend and if she wouldn't have had any feelings for George she clearly would have reacted different to his avances.

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 15:00:08 2014 No.12195851

>>12195801
It was Jessica and George who decided that they loved Shannon/Kanon first and tried to start up a relationship. Yasu as Kanon especially didn't want to be Jessica's boyfriend and tried for the longest time to brush her off. George was Green Battler ver 1.0 beta. What could have been had she had a normie relationship.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 15:05:54 2014 No.12195862 >>12168082 >creepy doll I almost forgot about that scene but holy shit. You don't have to make sense out of everything

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 15:10:33 2014 No.12195872 >>12195862 Because R07 totally forgot about it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 15:25:25 2014 No.12195909 >>12195862 I thought it was Gaap spying on Jessica or something.

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 15:39:10 2014 No.12195957

>>12195909

But Gaap wasn't even shown before, during or after the duration of that scene IIRC but meh.

>>12195872

Not really. Even those Bunny girls with OP weapons doesn't even make sense. Feel free to count in Zepar and Furfur to the list of nonsense too

They were just there to add to the tons of nonsense already present in Umineko

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 19:40:44 2014 No.12196578

>>12195862
Creepy doll?

Well, that has to be Ayanami Rei.
Joke aside, not every detail has to make sense. Then you could start to ask why Ange and Battler have red hair when neither Kyrie nor Rudolf have, or whatever else.
I think every story of that size has some "loose ends".

Anonymous Sat Jun 14 19:47:02 2014 No.12196589

>>12193498
Battler might bee been the one with the fewest problems in that case. (Except for Maria & Ange, who would likely just wonder whats going on) Still he would surely demand an explanation from Yasu. Speaking of his cousins, they and Yasu would have a hard time getting things together after that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 14 23:37:43 2014 No.12197432 >>12168060 One of my greatest regrets is that I never played Umineko back when trollface used to be a legitimate thing you can post here.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 05:36:37 2014 No.12198075
File: 24 KB, 320x240, Capture2_57_45.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Finished episode 5 last night. Man, was Bern always this nasty? She helped West Germany some years ago but it seems she didn't gave the miracle Japan needs in World Cup few hours ago.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 05:39:24 2014 No.12198077 File: 74 KB, 440x720, 4 26 31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12191190 Here some Maria being speculated. Aunts in Umineko are all God-tiers. Mature woman.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 08:28:56 2014 No.12198194

>>12195196
Still can't accept the ridiculous claim that the fall had any significance for body imperfectness. A child falling off a cliff and getting no harm to head, arms, back, legs, but crotch destroyed? I would say Yasu is more likely to be wheelchaired from that than to become genderless.

Seems much more plausible it was a result of incest that gave Yasu a less than normal gender. Add on top of that Yasu developing bisexuality, and it covers most of those gender confusion stuff.

While the story is extremely lacking in details, I'd like to claim Yasu solved the riddle, met up with Kinzo, and got raped for being "Reincarnated Beatrice", with the Servants doing nothing to help. At this point Yasu would clearly hate Kinzo and the servants. Maybe not hate the parents, but not view them as friends either. And just the children being her friends, which she had no real reason to murder.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 08:34:32 2014 No.12198196 >>12198194 >A child falling off a cliff and getting no harm to head, arms, back, legs, Yes, he was hurt all over his body and nearly died, that's why he has such a weak body, holy shit can you read?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 08:35:34 2014 No.12198197 >>12198194 Also, >implying it's easier to break a bone than to smash your genitals

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 09:13:51 2014 No.12198238

>>12198197
As I see it, you either land face first, and it is a miracle Yasu does not have a crooked nose or scars in the face. At this point your balls would also be first, and risk squashing.

The alternative is that you land back first, which means your face is safe. But you risk breaking your back and become crippled. Since Yasu is not crippled, he can't have landed on his back, or the very least not landed very hard on back. Obviously a soft back landing would not crush balls.

So unless someone can claim Nanjou is an expert cosmetics surgeon that can restore a crushed face, or that he can perform magic and restore broken spines, then I can't accept the broken balls theory.

Sure, you can go to extremes and say "A rock fell and crushed Yasus balls after he had landed" or "Nanjou slipped and cut off the balls without them being hurt". But now we are just inventing excuses to make our poor theories work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 09:15:13 2014 No.12198240 File: 26 KB, 720x620, yasu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12198238 Ok, I'll spoonfeed your lack of imagination.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 09:58:32 2014 No.12198289 Is Tsubasa fully translated yet? I've been waiting to read that shit.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 10:11:46 2014 No.12198310

>>12198240
It is a clear warning sign when you need imagination to explain things. After all, we are nearing ridiculous explanations when it is "Yasu bounces off the servant and lands crotch first on a rock".

Your explanation however has a flaw. Humans are not trampolines, so the fall is now reduced to mere inches. Mere inches would not guarantee crushed balls, but would have a chance for it.

In short, the implications of your answer is that there are alternate worlds where Yasu fell, but did not crush balls, and yet the story unfolds the same. I'd wager it is safe to say that balls crushed or not, it is just a distraction. Due to the young age of Yasu, it does not matter if he has balls or not.

After all, there are other anime with crossdressers who didn't need their balls crushed before they got confused and dressed up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 10:22:21 2014 No.12198324 >>12198310 >It is a clear warning sign when you need imagination to explain thing And yet you stated in your previous post that Yasu was raped by Kinzo when they met despite the narration clearly saying Kinzo apologized and then died in peace.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 10:42:16 2014 No.12198359 >>12191190 >doujin of Rosa beating Maria in various cosplay >win Comiket

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 12:11:25 2014 No.12198526 >>12196578 Clearly, Kyrie's side of the family is the real Ushiromiyas (as seen by their red hair that turns white in their 30's) while all the other Ushiromiyas were adopted by Kinzo or some bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 12:14:18 2014 No.12198531 >>12198289 >Is Tsubasa fully translated yet? I've been waiting to read that shit. No, it's not playable. You can read the TIPS on the wiki, but they still need to do a lot of work on Tsubasa.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 15:45:51 2014 No.12198975

>>12195957
The Chiester Corps are representations of the 4 guns in the mansion, with the personalities of Maria's 4 bunny band members. 556 is absent because she's both the bunny Rosa broke and the gimped shotgun that never kills anyone (ostensibly never used by Yasu for the real murders and only wielded when the Ushiromiyas kill each other).

Zepar and Furfur both represent Yasu's love. Whereas she is very subdued and serious, they are showoffs that push forward the trials for her various romantic interests. Notably, they both like guys, signifying how Shannon/George and Beatrice/Battler are the two paths she really wants to take.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 15:54:50 2014 No.12198995

>>12195116
>but because of Nanjou and Genji trying to give him as good life as possible considering the situation.

Ahahahahahahahahahah no.

If Genji had wanted to give Yasu a good a life as possible he would have kept her as far away from Known Child Rapist Kinzo Ushiromiya.

No he had her on the island so that he could enact "Operation Make Rapist Feel Better About Himself"

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 15:57:56 2014 No.12198998 >>12198310 Or it's as simple as "Yasu survived through dumb luck." People have survived ridiculous things in real life, including ridiculously high falls.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 15:58:42 2014 No.12199000

>>12198995
Put Yasu in good mainland family, obtain Beatrice prostitute, make Kinzo happy, get him to give up his inheritance early. Yasu missing out on hir rightful inheritance is a loss, but an ordinary life would be pretty worth it and it makes things less complex for the siblings.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 15:58:59 2014 No.12199002 >>12198975 Don't forget they also represent her gender issues, two androgynous individuals who are defined as opposing genders.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 16:04:40 2014 No.12199009 >>12198324 It's pretty sure he's either trolling or an idiot.

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 16:59:04 2014 No.12199116

>>12198324
I said something like that was necessary to explain the murders. You can't just say "Yasu has crushed balls and got apologies from Kinzo, so he went berserk"

>>12198995
The story did tell us many servants just worked a few years and made enough money to quit and live a decent life.

>>12198998
I don't question surviving. I question why people feel the need to make up a crushed balls part of the story. Lion seems at least as gender confused as Yasu, and we know there were no balls crushed there.

I feel a more suitable explanation lies in the possibilities of incest problems and bisexuality. But if you people can't come up with an answer to the story without ballsplosions, then keep them. I just find it unbelievable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 16:59:13 2014 No.12199117 File: 10 KB, 187x188, 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12167358 Both happen

Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:06:43 2014 No.12199130

My main problem with most "explanations" to Umineko is that they involve characters doing bizarre things for absolutely no reason other than to dance around the red text, which the characters shouldn't be aware of at any level. The characters in a mystery should concern themselves with hiding evidence from mundane cops and investigators, not from a supernatural metafictional construct.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:07:02 2014 No.12199131 >>12199116 >I question why people feel the need to make up a crushed balls part of the story "Why do I have to live with this body incapable of love?" - Yasu

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:07:25 2014 No.12199132 >>12199116 >Lion seems at least as gender confused as Yasu, and we know there were no balls crushed there. No. He is not. The only "issue" Lion has is that he's annoyed by people asking him if he's a girl because he looks a bit androgynous.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:10:16 2014 No.12199135 >>12199130 >they involve characters doing bizarre things for absolutely no reason other than to dance around the red text Name them

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:29:49 2014 No.12199165 File: 399 KB, 960x1381, 1387012411673.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12199132 He could grow a mustache, that would help.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:38:50 2014 No.12199179 >>12199165 Some men just can't grow facial hair.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 17:53:10 2014 No.12199199 >>12199179 >>12199165 If he got rid of the damn ponytail and opted for a boy's haircut, I'd imagine it would solve a lot of problems

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 18:12:55 2014 No.12199225 >>12199165 Why are they so perfect?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 18:43:27 2014 No.12199274 File: 242 KB, 1069x1196, 53ac0a2ff42c4c612049a2257393666a7ccec3b4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >All these Rosafags Where my Natsuhis at?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 18:45:18 2014 No.12199281 >>12199165 >>12199132 But Lion is a girl, stupids.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 18:50:31 2014 No.12199293 File: 33 KB, 350x450, Natsuhi_Ushiromiya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12199274 being Natsuhi is suffering

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 20:33:32 2014 No.12199476 >>12199281 >2014 >still thinking Lion is a girl

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 20:36:05 2014 No.12199479 >>12199476 Boys don't pinch boy butts. Only girls do that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 20:52:09 2014 No.12199503 >>12199130 >doing bizarre things for absolutely no reason other than to dance around the red text Because it is fiction written by amnesia Battler.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 20:53:44 2014 No.12199508 >>12199479 >Boys don't pinch boy butts. Gay ones do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 20:54:48 2014 No.12199509 >>12199503 Then is Ep 8 written by Battler? He sucks at this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 21:42:18 2014 No.12199564 File: 213 KB, 800x934, 27 5 40.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 21:43:39 2014 No.12199567 >>12199564 >kill servant and infant >"pure and innocent" there goes the red

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 23:52:26 2014 No.12199748 File: 152 KB, 748x612, Christina Perri - A Thousand Years.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 15 23:54:30 2014 No.12199751 >>12198075 [blue]japan didn't get any point[blue] [blue]miracles doesn't happen[blue]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 00:51:00 2014 No.12199835 File: 157 KB, 800x1139, 6 3 7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is that Marisa?

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 02:05:08 2014 No.12199917

>>12199131
I like to blame that on the incest. Because that allows me to explain why falling off a cliff does not matter for the island tragedy to happen.

One could also argue that the actual tragedy that did happen was completely unrelated to Yasu and depended on the parents and their gold needs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 03:42:51 2014 No.12200066 >>12199835 Yes, it is. Don't you remember the beginning of the second episode?

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 04:35:44 2014 No.12200107

>>12199917
>Because that allows me to explain why falling off a cliff does not matter for the island tragedy to happen.

It does freaking matter you moron.

Yasu is a direct cause of the tragedy. She is the one who threw a match into the powderkeg that was the Ushiromiya family.

You're completely misunderstanding the point that near anything could have set the entire thing off because the family was such a twisted mess of bitterness and resentment by fairly immoral people to somehow think that the fact that what she did is what did in fact set it off doesn't matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 04:48:24 2014 No.12200127 File: 384 KB, 600x800, 1384792446097.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12199479 As for that...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 04:51:36 2014 No.12200133 File: 298 KB, 450x662, dsfsc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12199293 havo some more Natsuhi then.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 04:59:46 2014 No.12200138 >>12199567 Man that's a pretty bad phrasing, Witch Hunt translated that red text much better. "Natsuhi is Pure and Faithful" basically saying that she never once cheated on her husband.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 05:00:46 2014 No.12200140 >>12200127 Yes. Lion cares not for genders, he will pinch your vulnerable butt if you misbehave.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 06:26:48 2014 No.12200197

>>12200140
i remember a doujinshi in which (a female) Lion visits the school festival, sees Jessica singing Tsurupettan and basically goes "you will be pinched like no tomorrow". (she said to Lion she has a song especially for her before)
Don't remember where i saw it, unfortunately.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 06:26:59 2014 No.12200198
File: 261 KB, 640x480, 1268159160582.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You people still don't know shit about umineko? Well it seems at least almost everyone of you.

Your "Umineko Ending is shit" or "The author didn't build sense in" is wrong and stupid. Well the first point could be an opinion of course but how can you have an opinion if you can't even count 1 and 1 together..

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 07:59:16 2014 No.12200334 >>12200198 There was someone earlier in the thread who, in the Year of Our Lord 2014, seriously thought that Sayo had multiple personalities.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 08:10:08 2014 No.12200345 >>12200334 Well, she obviously shares her body.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 09:20:18 2014 No.12200400 >>12200334 She doesn't?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 09:58:38 2014 No.12200438 >>12200334 did you even finish the game

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 10:27:07 2014 No.12200489 File: 16 KB, 314x315, has-anyone-really-been-far-even-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200400 >>12200438 >>12200345 Confirmed for having the reading comprehension level of a 9 year old.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 10:50:22 2014 No.12200535

>>12200489
That.

Protip and speed teaching for dummies: In Umineko, everything from the witch viewpoint is metaphor and riddles. When in Ep 3 Virgillia and Beatrice fight with magic, in truth Kumasawa and Yasu fight with arguments.

In Ep 7, when several personalities are presented, they are merely a metaphor for the various way she disguises herself and the various way she wishes to be acknowledged. It's less personalities (as in, the disorder) and more persona.

It's a far too difficult concept to understand for most crybabies, though. Most still believe that Yasu is curaazy in the head because they are not very clever or able to use their mind analytically and logically. The same becomes invariably Umineko haters later.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 10:52:00 2014 No.12200537 >>12200535 >ep6 >guys it is time to kill kanon persona to make him dissappear from the room Sorry but ryukishit went full retard there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 11:10:57 2014 No.12200557 File: 838 KB, 968x1041, 1336705306482.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200489 >>12200535 >being this much of a goat lrn2readingcomprehension

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 11:17:11 2014 No.12200564

>>12200489

Retard please.

>>12200535

The problem with your "reasoning" (definition used very loosely here) is that it completely undermines Yasu's motive for the murder ceremony. If her various identities were merely hollow constructs, she wouldn't need to go so far to determine a single dominant one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 12:35:51 2014 No.12200677 File: 455 KB, 3000x1635, When_they_cry_4_Rog_limitation_by_pwentoran.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 12:52:20 2014 No.12200719

>>12200107
>Yasu is a direct cause of the tragedy. She is the one who threw a match into the powderkeg that was the Ushiromiya family.

R07 doesn't like making things easy. Episode 7 shows us that Lion's world ends in tragedy as well. Which shows us that most of Yasu's life is irrelevant for the main events that unfold on the island.

However, that is just alternate reality. In the one world we consider real, it is entirely possible the exact events were because of the fall and personas etc.

This is part of my issue with R07s writing. I can completely remove Yasu from the story, and get the same ending to the cat box. Because the only necessary components is 1 family member smart enough to solve the puzzle, 1 bomb clock that someone turns on. A few more details would be necessary to actually place Eva and Battler at the correct locations during the explosion.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 13:01:31 2014 No.12200733

>>12200537
The thing is that a lot of people misunderstood what the red text was about.

The entire thing with the red words is that they were meant to be guides to figuring out Umineko, but a lot of people missed the point.

It's a bit understandable because well part of the story was Battler going through an arc of missing the point and screwing up. But the thing is a lot of readers didn't catch on.

You see this with a lot of people making crazy theories that can only technically fit the red text and invoke the devil's proof. But the biggest thing is that the entire thing with Shannon and Kanon dying with the Red Text makes a lot of people call BS... when in fact I'd argue that allowing this is a major point, if not *the* reason Umineko even has the Red Words element.

You see, lets say Umineko didn't have it, yet the mystery we were given had the same solution. The answer would be much simpler to explain, no? "Shannon and Kanon are the same person, and would fake one or the other's death in order to create the perfect alibi."

However, it's the red text that throws a complication into that. Suddenly Shannon and Kanon can "die" even though they're clearly the single most suspicious people on the island. All the non red elements of the story point to them... yet they "die." It's seemingly a major contradiction that the reader has to resolve.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 13:13:44 2014 No.12200747

>>12200733
(Continued)

It isn't until Chiru that the idea of the red text is attacked though. Episode 5 really points out how full of sophistry it is. The entire thing was meant to be a crutch, a guide to help the reader out, it shouldn't be taken as the only point of truth in the story.

With this, the author's intention was to go back and reconcile all the story pointing to Shannon/Kanon being the culprit... and the seeming contradiction with the deaths and realize both are true. That Beatrice, the culprit, does not consider Shannon and Kanon "dying" as a mere fake death, but as something genuinely dying. You read it and realize all these points about making other personas for yourself, about people hiding behind different identities and faces, and realize it was there the whole time.

The point is to get the reader to ask why. Why does Beatrice think this, what's her mindset behind this entire thing? And once you start asking why for that... you start asking why for a lot of things. Because that's the major point of Umineko, asking why people will sometimes do terrible things.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 16:20:06 2014 No.12201037 >>12200747 >The entire thing was meant to be a crutch, a guide to help the reader out The red text's main purpose has always been to mislead the reader.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 17:28:29 2014 No.12201156 >>12200733 >>12200747 Thanks. It was relaxing to read something not retarded in umineko threads for a while.

Anonymous Mon Jun 16 19:56:27 2014 No.12201359

>>12201037
Nope.

It's a guide, this is explicitly stated in Episode 5. you *can* use it to mislead, but that's not how the game is meant to be played.

Misleading with the red text instead of using it to provide clues and riddles is no different then chucking a rook at the opposing player.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 21:04:13 2014 No.12201468 File: 83 KB, 244x238, 1273126995270.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I fucking love the Siestas...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 16 21:36:34 2014 No.12201511 >>12201468 Not enough to spell their names correctly．

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 00:32:44 2014 No.12201774 >>12200066 I jump to middle of ep3.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 01:00:47 2014 No.12201798 File: 219 KB, 510x600, 182f6ac9632282228da59be.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12201468

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 03:35:01 2014 No.12201970 File: 232 KB, 640x360, Umineko no Naku Koro ni Special 3 .mp4_000076284.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12191190 She read her diary.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 03:45:59 2014 No.12201988 File: 81 KB, 401x370, 6 8 1 - Copy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200066 Holyshit. Now I am curious what happened there.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 03:50:36 2014 No.12201998

>>12200733
>>12200747
So basically after the long winded text, they are the same fucking person.
Which is fucking dumb.
George love him
Battler love him
Jessica love him

All fucking 3 of them doesnt even realize they are same fucking person. This is beyond retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 03:58:23 2014 No.12202014 File: 1.07 MB, 1713x1200, 2 7 16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Finally found it. The first thing occured in my mind is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlm1SwVWfWA

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 06:01:10 2014 No.12202214 >>12201998 >So basically after the long winded text, they are the same fucking person. No? Wtf. "They" are not the same person.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 09:20:46 2014 No.12202497 >>12201998 >All fucking 3 of them doesnt even realize they are same fucking person. This is beyond retarded. I see you didn't think this trough at all. Not the slightest... Or you didn't even read the VN.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 09:54:08 2014 No.12202540

>>12201998
What I'd say is odd is that Battler never met Kanon until that cat box period and George rarely met Shanon. But Jessica must have met them both a lot, and never noticed anything.

Are we supposed to take the "bad at studies" part of Jessica as a sign that she is stupid and that is why she never notice anything about Shanon and Kanon?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 11:17:48 2014 No.12202695 >>12202540 She seems naive sometimes, but not stupid. And you have to be VERY stupid if you are not able to separate two persons - who are not twins - with which you live together in one house for several years.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 11:41:49 2014 No.12202733

>>12202695
That you never see at the same place at the same time.

That had other people you know and trust keeping up the act too.

And it's not like Jessica doesn't ignore things that make her uncomfortable anyways, this is an established fact of her character.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 13:11:06 2014 No.12202880

>>12202733
yeah, but the fact that she never saw them at the same time alone should have puzzled her.
Also, Yasu would have to avoid some things normal people would do. For example, what if Jessica asks Shannon to go swimming - they live with the beach just outside of their house, don't you think Jessica would come with that idea sooner or later?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 13:45:58 2014 No.12202928 >>12202880 But she didn't.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 13:51:02 2014 No.12202933

>>12202880
>yeah, but the fact that she never saw them at the same time alone should have puzzled her.

Why? Servants come and go on the island all the time

>Also, Yasu would have to avoid some things normal people would do. For example, what if Jessica asks Shannon to go swimming - they live with the beach just outside of their house, don't you think Jessica would come with that idea sooner or later?

I don't see the issue here, Shannon can wear a swimsuit with pads.

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 13:53:54 2014 No.12202936

>>12202928
i just wanted to point out that impersonating two totally different beings without anyone finding out would make your everyday life hell.
another example, yasu had to make sure Jessica never could enter her room when she was sleeping - i don't think she keeps the pads on when sleeping. And much other things you she must'nt forget..

Anonymous Tue Jun 17 13:57:27 2014 No.12202941

>a hot busty chick can suddenly go to a school as an edgy shota manlet and nobody actually realize
Not all of eat up ryukishi bullshit.
You try spending close to 20years in a house and tell me you dont realize that you are actually missing a headcount.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 14:10:06 2014 No.12202965 >>12202933 Agreed, as long as they don't change clothes at the beach Jessica wouldn't notice. If i remember correctly, the first manga volume even had a color page showing Shannon and the cousins at the beach in bathing clothes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 14:16:30 2014 No.12202979 >>12202941 Pssttt... her boobs aren't real. She stuffs a bra with pads.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 17 21:41:06 2014 No.12203834 File: 129 KB, 309x836, 2 7 19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12202014 Oh dreams. They are such fragile things.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 01:25:42 2014 No.12204231 File: 25 KB, 600x450, swzlo4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12202965 this one? Shannon is not really visible, though.

Anonymous Wed Jun 18 03:09:02 2014 No.12204372

>>12202933
>Why? Servants come and go on the island all the time

That is another part of the backstory I was missing. Did Jessica and gang have any other servant friends? Or was Shannon/Kanon the only one who they got along with?

If he was the only one, it leaves room for wondering why they never noticed it. But if they also had 10 other friends they played with, then I can really understand it being hard to keep track of them all.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 03:52:05 2014 No.12204417 >>12204372 >Did Jessica and gang have any other servant friends? Yes. We see in Episode 7 for instance that Jessica had girl talk with Manon. Plus she says she got birthday presents for all of them in Episode 3.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 04:31:23 2014 No.12204478 >>12198077 Maria looks rather weird in the manga.

Anonymous Wed Jun 18 10:54:41 2014 No.12204974

So are both George and Jessica retarded? Obviously since Jessica lives there, she would see all the servants. George visits more than once a year since he wants to date Shannon. He has never once seen Kanon? Never once heard Natsuhi talk about getting a new male servant (since those are rare)? And speaking of Natsuhi and Krauss, are they both retarded also? What about the other servants?

Anonymous Wed Jun 18 12:49:10 2014 No.12205363

>>12204974
It also opens the question: does each of the servants have a room for him- or herself?
Otherwise it would be difficult for Shannon - she would have to pass a moment when she's alone each time she dress up in her working clothes and back (since i don't think she's spending her free time in that or sleep in it..)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 13:13:52 2014 No.12205413 >>12204974 They're not retarded, they don't care. Genji handles the servant schedules. >>12205363 Have you actually read Episode 7?

Anonymous Wed Jun 18 14:05:26 2014 No.12205539

>>12204231
From what little you can see there Shannon could wear everything from a bikini to a dress.
also, while from the manga, when should that scene take part? Jessica and Battler are grown up, so it couldn't be the last time Battler visited the island before he left Rudolf and Kyrie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 15:01:00 2014 No.12205713 Everyone knows already that Shannons breasts aren't real brests, right? ...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 18 21:47:17 2014 No.12206481 >>12205713 Except for George, Jessica, Battler and their whole family.

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