/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Have you done your reps?

[Anonymous No.]

I haven't done my reps in three and a half years.

[Anonymous No.]

I have 45 minutes left. Get off my back.

[Anonymous No.]

当然だ

[Anonymous No.]

I should start learning the kanji next, after grasping some basic grammar and vocab, and I just got Anki. There's a ton of decks out there and it's hard to choose. Any recommendations based on what seemed to work for you?

I was thinking of just going with a kyoiku kanji deck sorted according to grade, and with the core 2000 deck for vocab and listening/reading comprehension + another source of kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

I've never done a rep in my life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12054913
No! I skipped a day yesterday and I'm very disappointed in myself now...

[Anonymous No.]

one day I do them
2 weeks I dont
I odnt care anymore

wasted years never trying properly

even remembering X[jp] = Y[en] doesnt matter
because if it said "What is Y?" I wouldnt know.

Some dont do reverse meanings?

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone know of any info vids that just kind of has an overview of pronunciation?

[Anonymous No.]

Only at the gym. Never used anything like Anki to learn English and Russian. Not that I'm THAT good in both, but can read well enough. Since I'm learning Japanese to be able to read dem japanese games, I'll not use Anki. Just keep on reading, the more I read, more words I'll be able to recognize,

[Anonymous No.]

hold me /dżejpi/

[Anonymous No.]

No reps, eroge everyday only.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055331
>117/day
>Burns himself out

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055331
what is this?

[Anonymous No.]

I haven't done them since I accidentaly deleted the My Docs folder. Gonna start soon though

[Anonymous No.]

No, I don't like homework. I have a more passive learning method. Casual reading, no pushing myself. Works well for me.

[Anonymous No.]

In few days it has been year since I started studying Japanese. Feels like I am living a dream. Everyday I play games I have always wanted to play and talk with Japanese people online.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055476
That's quite a pace. Congrats.
I'm just starting, and I imagine I can't do it at such a pace because I'm not a tru-NEET.

Should have started years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055476
In a week it's my first year except that I can't even read manga without checking every few sentences for a word. To be honest I've been goofing around a lot but I hope to restart in the near future. Ah, this sucks

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055582
Isn't that, like, normal? Acquiring full vocabulary can take decades.

There would only be a problem if you failed to understand things even after using a dictionary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055596
I'm not used to some grammar so that's tricky sometimes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055582
How many vocab cards are you up to?

[Anonymous No.]

I did them every day for about 8 months, then I started Uni and haven't touched them since. I've forgotten so many it hurts to look.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055666
I don't know, I haven't studied for a while since I'm retarded and deleted my Anki folder by accident. So far I recovered ~800 cards, downloaded the core 10k deck and sorted my Kanji cards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055596
No, it's not normal.
>Acquiring full vocabulary can take decades.
Not really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055714
here we go a wild weaboo /jp/ neet rainman appears
ib4 N1 should take 2 weeks to learn

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055744
Even Uni-course people get it done in under 10 years.
Epic meem, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055582
>>12055596
>>12055714
Depends on what kind of manga are you reading and what kind of vocabulary you have learned so far.

Also what the hell is "full vocabulary"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055771
>full vocabulary

Yeah, that was an extremely shitty way to put it. I meant the vocabulary equivalent to that of an educated adult native speaker.

That other guy apparently took it as "the entire Core6k". My fault.

[Anonymous No.]

I am finally getting things in line again

I tried learning the kanjidamage deck about two years ago, but I would skip days and eventually ended up quitting when I skipped too many days and had too much to make up and got discouraged.

Then only recently I have consistently got back into it, I blew through the Genki 1+2 vocab so I could do grammar more efficiently, and after finishing that I've started the corePLUS deck which has something like 25k cards. I know its overkill and I won't need a lot of the cards, but I don't mind. I do 50 new words a day and will be able to have all the new words in my deck by about 450 days from now. It is a bit daunting to see that I'm only 11% of the way through the deck, but I am forcing myself to do my reps every single day even if it means I only get a few hours of sleep before I need to wake up.

I still find myself looking up a ton of words right now when trying to play games, but it could also be attributed to the type of games I'm trying to play through

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055803
So you need to be an educated adult native speaker to read manga?
You can easily get to a very well useable level within a year, so it's not "normal". This doesn't mean that >>12055582 is stupid and can't do it, it means that he wasn't studying consistently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055819
No, of course not, it means you'll need a dictionary every time an educated adult native speaker who wrote the manga decides to use a term that wasn't in your beginner's deck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055846
Not really relevant to the discussion anymore.
The guy you were replying to said he has to check a word every few sentences and that he was goofing around a lot himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055858
Okay, I get it, you never had this kind of problems with Yotsubato.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055928
I'm really epicly owned and shattered to pieces right now, but what point are you trying to make?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12055680

>Kanjidamage

Why are you wasting your time with that shit? That kike is insufferable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056378

I only went by what wat recommended in the DJT. What should I be doing? Just the most common kanji?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056415

Just do vocab. No point in bothering with all of those kanji keywords and out of context readings.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056415
>>12056452
I'd recommend doing the first 300 or so RTK (or Kanjidamage, just don't bother with anything except the English keyword here), though.
It gives you a really, really good feel of how Kanji are built and how you can make stories out of them.
After that you can basically look at a Kanji for 10 seconds and have it already memorized.

[Anonymous No.]

If you truly want to learn japanese fast and efficiently, pretend as if you're actually in japan.

Only watch japanese shows, only look at japanese websites, only read japanese, try to only think and talk in japanese.

Instead of 4chan, go on futaba or 2channel. Instead of youtube, nico. Turn your TV off, there's plenty of japanese tv shows or anime. Do Anki reps, write kanji, play VN with jparser, talk outloud or skype japanese people for practice.

Do all of these things everyday for a few months, and it will be impossible not to learn japanese no matter how slow you think you are at learning.

If you spend 3-6 months establishing base vocab and grammar rules, and then the next 6 months just on existing solely in japanese, you will be at a level close to that of a native japanese middle schooler. But that person has been fully immersed in japan for 10+ years, so you are getting to that level 10 times as fast. But you can't passively learn or else it will take you just as long, you have to be active. It's easier if you are NEET so you can dedicate the whole day to this. But even if you arn't, it's still a very, very simple strategy: you just have to learn as many new words in as many contexts as possible.

Atleast, this is what I plan to do. I'm just going to lurk a few more /jp/ threads here first....

さて, 頑張ってください
じゃね

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056576
No thanks dude, I'll just keep doing my reps.
See you in two days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056576
左様なら、雪乃先生 ;__;

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056576
From all of the foreign language teachers I know, they all say this is the best way to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

Ok, so I just installed Anki(kinda new to this).

Are there prebuilt decks that people already have or do I need to manually create a database? I studied some Jap like 10 years ago, and have forgotten most of it. I still have all the basics(~300 kanji and basic grammar/giant vocab list remembered), but I need to seriously up my game and I can dedicate stupid amounts of time to doing so.

So, some help for flexing my stale Japanese muscles?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057066

just go to ankiwebdotnet and download anything with "Japanese Core 2000/6000" in it

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057084

Ok cool...so is there no way for it to "grade" you? I'm given some audio, and I can answer them easily but there's only "show answer". So you just click show answer and respond honestly with how difficult it was for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057105

Nevermind, sorry. New to using this and all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12054913
Of course.

[Anonymous No.]

i did reps once

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057254
sorry

[Anonymous No.]

It used to take me like an hour to do 600 cards but now I finish my daily reps in like 20 minutes. I don't know what really changed. I'm having shit retention rates even though I'm not learning as many new kanji also. Maybe I should do them more slowly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057358
>It used to take me like an hour to do 600 card
>I'm having shit retention rates

Well you can't just expect to breeze through them by sheer force of memorization. If you don't contemplate them or use them you will forget them.

I would definitely recommend doing it a little more slowly, by that I mean thinking longer about what you're looking at. So it goes into your long term memory more easily, instead of constantly refreshing your short term memory which is what you might be doing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057427
Depending on what his retention rate actually is, I'd say he's doing a good job. (I'd consider, say, 75% pretty good at that speed.)

Contemplation and use are of course crucial, but should happen outside of Anki. Reps should be reps, let them teach you fast recall. If you don't remember it, fail it and see it five more times, it will be more productive than spending the same time on one long attempt to search your memory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12056496

Would you suggest going through RTK entirely, I'm only at 650 or something now. I can't really tell if things will stick with me for long term, but I guess as long as I keep doing those reps it will help me.

I'm not sure if I should finish RTK entirely or move on to something different. Or what to follow it up with even if I am done.

Comparing my Anki Review Count here, mine t looks rather poor, takes me a good 70 min to go through only 170. Learning only 20 a day.

[Anonymous No.]

so I'm learning moon runes. Tell me /jp/ what is most imp and least imp? If you choose "on" over "kun" or vice versa - why?

- kanji shape
- "meaning"
- kun readings
- on readings
- kanji stroke order

[Anonymous No.]

Is there any deck for the 300 remaining kanji of Kanjidamage ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058103
That's now how it works, fool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057793
It's a fucking waste of time to learn ALL kanji individually. This comes from someone who learned about 2000 and at one point noticed many of them would show up in very few words, which in the end would be easier to just learn these specific words, instead of memorizing readings that are seldom used. Of course, there are kanji that it's worthy to memorize. But if I were you I'd just learn the 500 most used kanji or something like that, read some grammar guides or textbooks, then hop on whatever I'd like to play or read in japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058103
study some grammar first. I recommend Genki 1 and 2 but Tae Kim is also good.

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.imabi.net/

Good for learning grammar but a bit dry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058323
It is useful to learn them shapes individually, but readings should be learned with vocabulary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12057793
>Would you suggest going through RTK entirely
No, it's a waste of time, start with core2k now.
You do RTK to understand what radicals are and how to make silly mnemonics and use that while doing vocab. You will have an actual pronounciation and meaning for each shape to remember, which is alot more efficient than learning Kanji on their own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058507
Memorizing EDICT defiinitions for 20 thousand words is fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058507
Rofl

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058517
True, your point?

[Anonymous No.]

I did it..

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058530
That one shouldn't go through everything in core2k, and at one point switch to jp -> jp definitions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058925
Do you even know what core2k is?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058925
I think you mixed up k with 万. They kinda are similar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058507
Worse advice for a while in these threads.

Of course finishing RTK is useful, if one has chosen it for his kanji study method. If it is stopped in middle, many radicals and hard to distinguish kanji will be missed.

But the worst advice is suggesting core2k. Enjoy learning useless business vocabulary with inaccurate translations which you will never need.

[Anonymous No.]

It's been months. I'm a bad person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061002
It's not exactly motivating to see you have over 400 cards to go through just because you took a short break.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12060629
So you're one of those people that thinks when someone suggests studying vocab one will never learn kanji ever, I see.
And there is not a single useless word in core2k (if I remember correctly) and if you think so, it's because you have no practical experience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058457
this

people that memorize all the readings, when that word pops up in a sentence, how are you so sure which reading it is?? exactly. you're not.
the only hint i know of, regarding this, is that if the kanji is a lone word in a sentence it will have the chinese reading; if it is a joint kanji or with some kana, it will have the japanese reading (or vice versa or something i forget)

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061287
On-reading in Jukugo and Kun when it's alone.
It's actually a rule and not only a hint, but learning the readings on their own is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't do reps,just read books with furigana (at first).

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061365
this

repeating stupid individual words that pop up on a screen is so boring me to
why not read articles online or chat with people while using something like rikai-chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>12062047
>chat with people using something like rikai-chan

Good luck writing a reply. Or are you planning to use google translate for that instead?

[Anonymous No.]

すぐに私は日本語をマスターになります

[Anonymous No.]

>>12062155
nope did i say that? i simply meant for you to hover over kanji which you may not know. the repetition of words as found in common human conversatons is much more effective than drilling flashcards

[Anonymous No.]

>>12062155
dont even mention google translate, or some silly person might try it....

according to it, 日本の方が美味しいかもしれないmeans japanese people might be delicious

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063048
[Citation needed]

[Anonymous No.]

I got burnt out at grammar but now that I dropped out of school I'm thinking of picking it back up.
Are these threads regular?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063053

Are you saying "might" should be "probably don't" since it's a doubtful expression, Or does that actually mean that 'japanese people might/might not have good taste" ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063140
I dunno about regular, but they last for weeks because /jp/ is slow. So don't worry too much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063171
Alright.
As pathetic as it is I'll never stick with it without an anonymous progress hub.

[Anonymous No.]

What is the maximum amount of time that I should spend on anki each day before moving onto reading practice?

I have all day because I'm a NEET.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12058103
You need to know both but not all. A lot of the readings for kanji will be uncommon so you'd be wasting your time learning them. Better to learn the common readings and then learn the uncommon readings when you chance upon them one day.

I'm using Wanikani for this, it's not free (The first two levels are though, basically a demo) but it teaches you the most common readings for kanji along with a shit-ton of vocab which helps reinforce lesser-used readings. So far it's worked wonders for me but your mileage may vary.

As for stroke order, I wouldn't even bother unless you're planning to hand-write a lot in the future. Some people find it helps them remember but I personally don't think it's a useful thing to learn on top of everything else, it'll just slow you down and make the learning process more painful with no major practical benefit in my view.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063048
I'm asking how are you planning to hold a conversation without already knowing the basic vocab and grammar.


"Don't learn kanji, learn words, it worked for me when I already knew kanji."
"LOL no, don't learn words, just read, it worked for me when I already knew vocabulary."

- This thread in a nutshell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063263

>Wanikani

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063276
You're right, it's not for everyone but it's helped keep me focused. The fact that I've paid for it something gives me more motivation to get something out of it.

I tried Anki decks and it just didn't work for me, I need something a bit more structured than just a deck of kanji/vocab and nothing else to keep me on track. Different learning styles and all that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061307
That's actually not a a rule, just good guideline.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063284
This. Plenty of words have on-readings when they're on their own and kun-readings when they're jukugo

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061287
Oh wow. I don't think you could possibly be more misinformed.

The first thing to do when you're learning is to understand what you're learning, and you're failing that part spectacularly.

>>12061307
It's actually just a hint. There are plenty of one-kanji Chinese words and noun+noun native compounds (and that's without even mentioning mixed compounds and ateji). The only thing you could call a rule is that anything with okurigana has a native reading.

>>12063301
Some even have both at once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12061131
I didn't say anything about anything like. Stupid straw man argument as expected. I said "IF one has CHOSEN..".

ALL premade vocabulary decks have useless words because they all premade decks. Specially Core2k which is probably the worst premade vocabulary deck for a beginner. Only useful words are basic words but one should have already learned them from Tae Kim.

It is true my practical experience is just 2 years of reading eroge which includes half year of transfer student in Japanese university where I took courses which were taught in Japanese. Still I have never needed words such as 小包, 船便, 特急、表(ひょう), 交渉, 議員

Only way to guarantee useful vocabulary deck is nothing but self-made deck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063349
One thing I don't understand about core decks is why they're putting English loanwords in them. Unless the deck is supposed to double as belated katakana practice, it's a fucking placebo. Wow, you "learned" that エレベーター means elevator, good job!

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063349

Those are words that all japanese people know and use though, and they're all made up of very common kanji.

Just because you yourself have never needed them doesn't mean they arn't useful to learn. Even more so if you actually plan on being fluent in the language instead of just getting by.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063379
You're a beginner, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063428
Not relative to people in those threads, no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063379
If you've never heard エレベーター somewhere before you do not know what elevator means in Japanese.
This means that in thoery it could be a entirely new Japanese word instead of a loan word. It's like shroedinger's vocabulary.
Once learn the this word from the vocabulary list you know that it is just a loanword. It's common sense, you don't know what it means until you learn it. This also goes for loanwords.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063379
Loan words are words too, you know

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063457
You'll realize it's a loanword the first time you encounter it in Japanese. You don't need to waste your time on learning it separately.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063379

japanese have been converting many words and foreign phrases into an unholy jargon of kana, so its useful to be aware of that because not only is it not always obvious what word they want to say but its growing in popularity if anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063478

ズボン

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063487
That's not English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063478

Why do you keep assuming everyone who wants to learn japanese has english as a first language and has no use for business-related japanese or katakana?

Not everybody has the same experience or goals as you do. Please accept that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063478
You do realize that, but if you actually want to speak the fucking language you need to know what it means in case you need to say it without hearing it first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063478
That's only if you're just reading and listening. If you want to learn speaking you need to learn it seperately.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063495

Exactly. There's plenty of loanwords in Japanese that don't come from English and there's plenty of English loanwords that are so poorly rendered in katakana that they sound nothing like the original word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063379
If you don't learn it you don't know how it's spelled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063498
Why am I assuming that someone using a Japanese-to-English deck knows English, you ask?

Why are you assuming I'm that other person, though?

>>12063505
If you're learning from core decks, you're nowhere near the point where you can "speak the fucking language". (And once you are, you're catch on to which loanwords are in use quickly enough.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063536
Holy shit you're ignorant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063524
>there's plenty of English loanwords that are so poorly rendered in katakana that they sound nothing like the original word

You're French example hardly demonstrates that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063536
>If you're learning from core decks, you're nowhere near the point where you can "speak the fucking language"
That's wrong.
Some people use those decks when they do business travel with their company and stuff. Don't just assume everyone is in the same position as you. It's a proper japanese word so it deserves a spot in a deck with the most used words in Japanese.
>And once you are, you're catch on to which loanwords are in use quickly enough.
But do you know exactly how to spell them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063545
He's right though. Often times they are so different you should learn them seperately. It's common sense if you're not a beginner.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063536
For how long have you been learning Japanese? 3 weeks?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063536

You said why bother putting an english loan word in an anki deck as if everyone automatically knows how an english word is going to be rendered in japanese or if there is another word japanese people use for that loan word.

it just sounds selfish is all. like you learned something one way therefore every other way isn't right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063552
>do not assume

I don't want to make a mistake I berate others for, so I'll ask. Are you the person that assumes others will need business-related words, or was that someone else?

>do you know exactly how to spell them?

I learn quickly enough once I encounter them. That's just not something you need SRS for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063568
>I learn quickly enough once I encounter them. That's just not something you need SRS for.
Again, you are assuming that you are the norm and that nobody does anything different from you.

>Are you the person that assumes others will need business-related words
I'm not >>12063498 if that's what you mean. I'm >>12063457

[Anonymous No.]

トランプ is one of the rare waseigo that I couldn't comprehend without checking it out from a dictionary. But then again I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know if you guys call playing cards trumps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063568

>Are you the person that assumes others will need business-related words, or was that someone else

That's not him , I'm guessing you mean this post >>12063498 which was mine.

And all I was saying there is that there is a use for business, political, etc related words if you ever want to be fluent in japanese and be able to read, understand, and talk about the news, society, or other important things in japanese. I'm not seeing that everyone needs them. But just learning them and the related kanji might help make those particular kanji stick better as well, so even people who just want to keep to eroge, anime, and manga have a use for learning such words.

[Anonymous No.]

Why does it even matter if there's easy katakana words in a deck?

If it's a very easy word then just mark it as easy and pass it on, it takes less than 1 second, and if it's not an easy word and you're having trouble remembering it then you obviously needed to learn it.

The katakana words take up a miniscule portion of the deck and you will be so busy with the other 9,000 some words in the Core10k deck that it makes no sense to complain about a handful of katakana words being too easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063599
It doesn't matter, this is just a bit of autistic /jp/ discussion to keep the thread going.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063593
Now, what you're saying is true, but I don't think the words themselves are the point of contention. Using core decks is, especially using them as a starting point. Nobody's advocating not learning them ever (I think). We're just saying they're not what you should be learning when you're just starting and your goal is to be able to practice with the real living language as quickly as possible. You should be preparing for things you plan on immersing yourself in, and for most people here, those aren't business documents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063599
Okay, that's a convincing argument. I still think of it as padding your stats, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063617
>We're just saying they're not what you should be learning when you're just starting and your goal is to be able to practice with the real living language as quickly as possible

Ah, that's true, certainly for most everyone on /jp/.

The core decks have a slant towards the business side of things since they assume the people learning with their system include a lot of business people who go to japan to work. But I see your point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063411
Entire argument has been what beginner should do. Beginner has limited learning capacity and he doesn't necessary need to learn such words.

I thought the point I made in my conclusion was clear. Usefulness of vocabulary comes from person himself. Person who plans just to read samurai stories doesn't need hyper-scifi vocabulary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12063329
>first thing to do when you're learning is to understand what you're learning
did i SAY that though?
where are you all getting this imagined material that i never said?
here i will lay it out nice a simple:
1) learn basics
2) talk to people online
3) study moar grammar
4) talk moar
5) win

no anki in there at all
i am N3 btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064014
>Did I SAY that

No, I said that.

You have N3 and you didn't figure out the distinction between native and Chinese vocabulary yet. Cool story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064075
>native and Chinese vocabulary
なんだそれ

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064089
先進言語学だ。君は知ることができない。

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064154
中国語はこのスレに関係がないよ。

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064014
Why is the milf autist posting in the anki thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064014
With anki you would be N1 by now

[Anonymous No.]

>>12064198
中国語からは日本語言葉の半数が借用された。貴方、どうしてこの事実知らないのか？