/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

This may or may not be the best place to ask, but what is the fascination with this man and that period in Japan's history in otaku culture?

The hero, the villain, reincarnated, alternated, genderswapped, the whole shebang. There are two anime this season in which the protagonist is related to him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
>This may or may not be the best place to ask
If you start your thread with this the answer is always no.

[Anonymous No.]

He was considered pretty much the most successful and most brilliant Japanese military man in their entire history.

Also hyougemono.

[Anonymous No.]

I wish there were more photographic portraits like that.

[Anonymous No.]

Why aren't there Amurikan tv shows, cartoons nor comics in which the mc is related to a president like Lincoln or Grant? Jaypan does it all the time. Nobunaga is a perfect example.

[Anonymous No.]

Why isn't Taira no Kiyomori ever an anime villain?

He's basically the main character of Japan's greatest cultural epic, and he's ultimately the reason why the samurai became the ruling class of Japan, even if he didn't directly establish the shogunate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
What I'd rather know is why is he portrayed as some kind of evil overlord so often?

As for the fascination with the sengoku period I would say people just like basing stuff on it since it was an exciting time what with all the warring and death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869480
Haven't there been multiple Abraham Lincoln movies recently? The dude shows up in pop culture constantly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869491
He wasn't exactly a nice dude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869494
Warlords usually aren't. Did he do something particularly bad compared to the others of the time?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869480
President Lincoln shows up as a cartoon character all the time, for some reason. Tvtropes lists him as a character in seventeen separate cartoons, and apparently he's a character in the upcoming Lego movie also.

I guess Nobunaga is Japan's pop culture Lincoln, for the opposite reasons apparently. I wonder what that says about Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869493
>Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

Japan is being pretty moderate with Nobunaga in comparison.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869501
He was very successful when it came to military campaigns, he was betrayed and murdered, and he probably had the greatest ambition in Japan and was willing to crush anyone for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869541
Really?

[Anonymous No.]

Would it be safe to assume that having watched both seasons of Sengoku Basara I should have a good understanding of the history of that period?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869635
Yes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869485
Does /jp/ even know who Kiyomori is?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
I'm no expert, so what I say might be kind of inaccurate. Probably because the Sengoku Musou/Samurai Warrior games got me interested in the setting, although I've done some reading about some of the individuals in actual history.

Until Nobunaga's time in the late 1500s, the land hadn't ever been fully unified, and he was about to do it when his retainer killed him. This made it break apart again, until another retainer, who killed the guy that killed him, finally was able to do it. The guy who took over after that was another former Oda vassal, and the Shogunate he founded lasted for 300 years until Admiral Perry forcibly opened up Japan to foreign influence.

One thing Nobunaga did that got him a reputation for being demonic was his total slaughter of warrior-monks at Mt. Hiei. They weren't defenseless, but it was brutal. His body was also never found after his death in a burning temple, which probably seemed supernatural to some people.

>>11869659
Probably more people know who he is from Musou Orochi rather than Genji Monogatari. It seemed to me like it was hard to tell actual history from fiction in that case, since the writings were so old.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869691
Kiyomori is from the Heike Monogatari. The Minamoto were also called the Genji though.

Anyway The Tale of Genji is the boring story about Prince Genji the Heian era playboy.

[Anonymous No.]

When genius commander and genius composer collide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hkz00PKyqM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDLOMhvME1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2CVFihje-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl6Te4vV2ws

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869700
Oh, sorry. Was going to doublecheck the reference, but it slipped my mind.

>>11869454
I was also going to mention that as a person, Nobunaga was kind of interesting. He liked foreigners, and even had a former black slave as a retainer near the end of his life. There are a lot of interesting anecdotes about him too, like him laughing at Mitsuhide's poetry. That was that guy that eventually killed him. His life is fairly well documented in his later years, which gives you a good idea of who he was. But it was also far enough back that it's easy to fictionalize his exploits. It's probably easier to compare him to a King Arthur than it is to a real politician or king in the west.

It also helps that a lot of people in the period are kind of interesting.

[Anonymous No.]

Hero because he almost united Japan (which failed), but both Hideyoshi and Ieyasu, his retainers, succeed.
He's seen as an evil for others because he invented new ideas to Japan. Also ruthless and wild personality.
People around him called him as the fool because they didn't understand what going on with his mind.
Genderswapped maybe because he's a bi. He has 1 wife, some concubines, yet he also has Ranmaru on his side.
Reincarnated, alternated, etc, showed his strong presence, a legend and someone you should fear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454

Nobunaga is extremely important to Japanese history because he brought Japan close to reunification when it had been ruled by warlords for over 100 years. In addition, he defeated or outlasted several famous and brilliant rival warlords in the process, such as Takeda Shingem and Uesugi Kenshin. Had he not been betrayed and committed Seppuku, he would have united Japan and been declared Shogun. At the same time, he introduced many different innovations to Japan via trade with the West. For these reasons, he is often seen as a hero.

However, this all came at a price. He was well known for being extremely brutal and ruthless, at a time when brutality was somewhat the norm due to constant war between rival warlords. This bloodymindedness is particularly evident in his suppression of Buddhist monks. When some orders opposed him, he surrounded their castles, put them under siege, and killed every single person in the siege. These and other actions mean he is often remembered for his brutality.


Explanation of Sengoku Jidai forthcoming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454

Cont.

The Warring States Periods has fascinated Japanese culture in general, and not just otaku culture, for a long time; many Akira Kurosawa films, for instance, are set in that time period. I know very little about Japanese society, so I can only guess, but I would guess:

-It's a good setting to tell different types of stories, being a time of conflict and war, as well as having many well known historical figures like Nobunaga, who can be included,

-It's well known from historical records.

More interesting than the Edo Period, which was 200+ years of banal peace.

-It represents the height of a culture and way of life that was abruptly and completely abandoned during the Meiji Restoration. This reason, or a similar reason, is probably the strongest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869491
I'd say in all of the fictional works he's represented in, it's a fairly even 50/50 split of him being depicted as a great man or an evil man. I think that comes from how whoever is making the work views the well-documented character of Nobunaga. I don't have too much time to go into it, but to lay it down as simple as possible: Nobunaga represents change. How the author of a work views change will ultimately color Nobunaga's character in his work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869480
fuck lincoln and grant, someone should make a cartoon about the adventures of lee and jackson

[Disability-san No.]

Yokai and scourcers are always more active in war time. Japan was in a constant state of war in the Sengoku period. Men were always leaving home for battle and individuals were roaming from perfecture/daimyo domains to live better lives or seeking glory. Wars are always interesting and they inspire drama, evil, and heroicism from peasent to war lords. During this era a plethera tales were born and the yokai activity much higher than after or before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869921
>This bloodymindedness is particularly evident in his suppression of Buddhist monks.

Japan's soldier-monks were always stirring shit up. Sometimes their temples became regional power centers to the point that the monks became actual warlords. They weren't acting like very good Buddhists of course but heaven forbid that anyone should try to stop them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869853
>im laughing at Mitsuhide's poetry. That was that guy that eventually killed him.
Even 600+ years ago, people couldn't take trolling lightly.

[Anonymous No.]

he's like the ben franklin of japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869480
Hereditary fame is antithetical to American values. The only way to be unique and special in nipland is to make claim to bloodlines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11871180
Yet people always go on and on about how their family was one of the first settlers that came on the Mayflower, true blooded Americans and they lived in the valley all their lives, and on and on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11871189
God, I hate New England.

[Anonymous No.]

Why is there no cross-over starring Nobunaga and Lafcadio?
Nobunaga is a Japanese fascinated with western culture, and Lafcadio is fascinated with Japanese culture.
Turn one of them into a woman, and you have the perfect match.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11871134
That's exactly why Nobunaga and Kiyomori have been villainized, actually. The Buddhist clergymen who chronicled Japan's history made it a point not to cast those two in the best of lights.

[Anonymous No.]

This will explain everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdC_Cu9X4wc

[Anonymous No.]

>>11876112
Wow, they're faggots.

[Anonymous No.]

Oda Nobunaga expands his territory in a ruthless manner, unites a small area, and is remembered as a hero.

Genghis Khan expands his territory in a ruthless manner, unites a large area, and is remember as a villain.

Why is history so unfair? Nobunaga didn't even make half the domestic improvements Genghis Khan brought to his empire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878274
Areas united by Oda Nobunaga remained united.

Areas "united" by Genghis Khan quickly regained independence.

You know how they say that history is written by the victors? It's much more precise to say it's written by survivors. There's no nation left in Japan to celebrate its independence from (or at least valiant struggle against) evil Nobunaga empire. There is, however, a nation of Japan celebrating its unification.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878274
When Genghis Khan went to a village, he would kill every male, every child, and the elderly. He'd leave a few of his men in the village with the women they kept.

Regardless of just how evil this practice was, how the fuck can you call this expanding territory? And "Domestic Improvements" LOL. From fucking yaks to raping foreign women, what an improvement.

If you want a better comparison, Alexander the Great is what Nobunaga tried to be, and didn't live up to it. If Nobunaga had lived and launched the campaign in Korea himself he might have been more comparable to Alexander.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
Azuchi-Momoyama and Edo period brought many wonderful arts,some are beautiful,some are cute. See "かわいい江戸絵画" http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4763013246

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869700
From japanese point of view,people always loves tragic heroes(判官贔屓:Hogan-biiki) .
In the Genpei War,Minamoto no Yoshitsune,and his retainer,Benkei.

pic from "かわいい江戸絵画",
Yoshitsune(Ushiwaka-maru) and Benkei fighting on the bridge.

Yoshitsune jumps to evade a falling blow of Benkei's naginata,and says"あばれまひそ"(Don't act violently!)
Benkei replies "やかましひ"(Shut up!)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878352
>When Genghis Khan went to a village, he would kill every male, every child, and the elderly.
What the fucking fuck. Well, that certainly tarnishes how I imagined him.
Source?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878550
Like, everything that has ever been written about Genghis Khan, ever?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878352
Disregarding the brutality of Genghis Khan, when the Mongols under Kubilai Khan founded the Yuan Dynasty in China, they founded an actual empire.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878614
You mean the Golden Horde?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878648
No

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878614

The leading dynasty was totally absorbed by the han and was no longer mongol and even like that didn't lasted long.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878604

The mongols were literally demons by our standards. Even the caricature of the child eating nazi isn't as evil as the real mongols.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878310
> Areas "united" by Genghis Khan quickly regained independence.
His homeland is still united after this time, and never dissolved into warring clans. What he conquered, on the other hand, spend a lot of time to break the mongol rule even after it dissolved into four huge mongol empires.
>>11878352
> When Genghis Khan went to a village, he would kill every male, every child, and the elderly. He'd leave a few of his men in the village with the women they kept.
You're blantantly lying. Without men the village will starve, nobody will work in the fields, and they would not be able to pay taxes. And mongols loved taxes more then anything else.
> And "Domestic Improvements" LOL. From fucking yaks to raping foreign women, what an improvement.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878798
>His homeland is still united after this time
A bit in Russia, some its own country, most Mongols in China.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878274
>Genghis Khan anything but a hero
Are you mad the greatest person who ever lived isn't european?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
he was pretty much THE great conqueror japan knew until very recently opening up.

so duh, imagine whole western world only had one great strategist ever- napoleon or alexander the great, and imagine how we'd all treat him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878798
mongol detected

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878352
Genghis Khan killed roughly a third of every city he captured. You're saying it like he almost completely obliterated the population of everything he conquered, which would be utterly insane (as it would leave a huge area from East Asia to Eastern Europe almost devoid of population). He was brutal, but he wasn't insane.

>>11878604
More like everything written about Genghis Khan by Europeans, whose territory was being threatened by the largest empire in history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11871193
You get it all over, to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11879939
Is that why each fucking medieval games end up with the mongols arriving and raping everyone in sight?

[Anonymous No.]

It wasn't just Mongols though, they were joined by Turkics too.

[Anonymous No.]

Mongols are faggots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11887984
Say that to their faces not online where they can't see it because they have no Internet and see what happens

[Anonymous No.]

>>11888989
>they have no internet
i thought they have one

[Anonymous No.]

I wish the Mongols had conquered Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869700
>Anyway The Tale of Genji is the boring story about Prince Genji the Heian era playboy.
What, how can you not enjoy a plot where some nobleman raises a loli (who is the self-insert of the author) and grooms her to be the perfect wife for him? I cried when Genji's loli died.

Kiyomori was boss though. If Shigemori was alive and that disease didn't get him, he'd fuck Japan so hard that historians would call his dick the second Ame-no-Nuhoko.

>>11878549
I liked /jp/'s own take on that scene, back in one of these rare Japanese history threads.

"Goddamnit, Yoshitsune. Just get down here and fight."

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869480
too modern so the values they espoused aren't dated and they're not a romantic figure but an important one

[Anonymous No.]

On the discussion of Oda Nobunaga. Does anyone know a good drama series that about the Sengoku period? Something, like the events of of the war and historical figures. (kind of like romance of the three kingdoms)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889418
つ『黄金の日日 完全版 第壱集 第1回~第28回収録 [DVD]』http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0000A12EG/
Or
つ『NHK大河ドラマ 信長 完全版 第壱集 [DVD]』
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000FIH2LW/

>the Sengoku period? Something, like the events of of the war and historical figures

Maybe some books can help.
歴史・時代小説ファン必携 【絵解き】戦国武士の合戦心得 (講談社文庫)http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4062749009/
,【絵解き】雑兵足軽たちの戦い (講談社文庫)http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4062755602/
,
雑兵たちの戦場―中世の傭兵と奴隷狩り,
一冊でわかるイラストでわかる図解戦国史(SEIBIDO MOOK),and
図説 戦国時代 武器・防具・戦術百科
(translated from Weapons and Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior, 1200-1900)
are quite useful to understand that era.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889018
Horses can't swim, bro

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889018
Too bad, japanese god of wind didn't let them too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889472
The Mongols did try, though. And basically everyone was surprised they failed, including the Japanese at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - Historian Culture

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889468
You don't know how long I've been looking for something like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889772
>You don't know how long I've been looking for something like that.
I'm so sorry. I'm just a new fag on /jp/.
「黄金の日日」was Really popular drama,
but it may be little too old.
「NHK大河ドラマ 信長」 as those dramas go,those stories are quite fictional
If you are a japanese resident,many services are available.
1.Online/Brick Rental store
2.Library
Some libraries
With mutual utilization of libraries,you can touch deeper knowledge.
"The Interlibrary Loan is a system in which a user can use materials held in the NDL through the user's nearby public library, university library or a reference room (institutions that have applied for and have been approved as registered users of the NDL's Interlibrary Loan Services only)."

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889845
>I'm so sorry
Nah m8 he was thanking you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889845
I was thanking you.
I've been looking for some "historical anime", and found one where Oda has a bike and is a biker gang capo.
So I started looking for a documentary including reconstitutions, and found a lot. But about Europe's kings.

I'll try to see if those are translated in English.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889845
>I'm just a new fag on /jp/.
"Newfag". No space between the words. Unless you were trying to say you're a new homosexual on /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889845
You're a neat new addition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889845
Something like the Accursed Kings would be awesome.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11890236
I agree; I hope we all get along.
New friends on /jp/!

[Anonymous No.]

>In 1551, Oda Nobuhide died unexpectedly and, during his funeral, Nobunaga was said to have acted outrageously, throwing the ceremonial incense at the altar.[2] This act alienated many Oda retainers, convincing them of Nobunaga's mediocrity and lack of discipline and they began to side with his more soft-spoken and well-mannered brother, Nobuyuki. Hirate Masahide, who was a valuable mentor and retainer to Nobunaga, was ashamed by Nobunaga's behavior and performed seppuku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11890353
The death of Hirate Masahide actually made him really sad. Also Sohachi Yamaoka said on his novel, young Nobunaga act outrageously wild to catch his mother's attention. Which is sad because it never work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11890353
Well, think of it in this way: He helped raise him, but failed to teach him decorum.

And if you think of how bloodthirsty Nobunaga was, it was perhaps an appropiate "I'm sorry" to Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>tfw no sensei to commit sudoku over my shamefur dispray

[Anonymous No.]

>>11891631
I will commit sudoku with you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11891643
You fucking asshole.
Now I feel compelled to fill that darn thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889941
If "NHK World Premium" can be available in your area/country,
http://nhkworldpremium.com/guide/genre_e.aspx?genre=4&ssl=false&c=26
by choosing "NHK World Premium >Program Line-up>Dramas",you can watch some samurai dramas.(many documentaries/ special programs are not translated in English)

>>11890061
Absolutely! Typical typo.
Thank you for indicating this error.

# About books(as far as I have read) for foreign people,
"Weapons and Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior, 1200-1900"should be best quoted in >>11889468 in availability.
Tetsuo Owada(小和田哲男:notable historian) highly praises the author
in the preface(as Japanese edition supervisor):
1.This book offers a comprehensive survey of Warriors,fightings,weapons-quite rare even in Japan
2.And it compares Japanese "history of samurai" with that of Europe
3.Most of all,it's very impressive about "firearms" and "cannons" and so on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11891699
Have another!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11871189

Do they? I live in New York and have never encountered that. Guess I'm lucky to not have run into any faggots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11892131
I'm a pleb and can't speak japanese, so...

What do you think about the book Taiko? Do you know it?
I've read it, which made me like Hideyoshi a lot more than Nobunaga. Unfortunately it seems too good to be true/accurate.

[Anonymous No.]

I always draw parallel between Nobunaga and Cao Cao but unfortunately for Cao Cao he was for the most part vilified.

>>11889472
They were really horrible with naval warfare weren't they? Same thing happened when they tried to invade Java.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889468
>つ『NHK大河ドラマ 信長 完全版 第壱集 [DVD]』
I can't seem to find this anywhere, I doubt the DVD has English subtitles as well. I wish to watch this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11892743
To be fair they actually made to Java, but their army were deceived by Raden Wijaya. He made them drunk and beat them. Kinda like what Nobunaga did to Imagawa Yoshimoto at Okehazama.
For Japan they are just lucky because sudden kamikaze, or so i heard.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there any work that does him justice, in portrayal?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11881374
>mongols arriving and raping everyone in sight
That's what they did. They were first rate assholes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11898889
Nobunaga or Cao Cao?

If it's Nobunaga, I think there's Dave Clavell's Shogun, even through he's still quite cruel in it and does some horrible stuff.
But he's honourable and isn't the most cruel lord. There's another who boils people alive and faps to their screaming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869691
>slaughter of warrior-monks at Mt. Hiei.

fuck those guys, those monks were assholes, thought they were some hot shit, got shown different

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878274

Genghis Khan is remembered as a hero in Mongolia though

[Anonymous No.]

ITT sean

[Anonymous No.]

>>11899988
Kinda like Napoleon. In France, he's a hero. In Spain, he's a monster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11891643
fucker

[Anonymous No.]

>>11907402
>Need 6 days.
Nobunaga was not pleased.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11907599
Shut up Nobunaga, you're dead.
.
.
Right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11908695
This kid actually thinks Nobunaga is dead.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a community for translated japanese classic series like Kozure Okami analogous to the anime one on nyaa/anidb?
I only found stuff on yt in a shitty quality with awful subtitels from nippon golden network, a google translation would be more accurate than that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11908731
Fucking dapper moustachere there, brah.
I feel inspired to have my own.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11908731
>european armour
What?
>unprotected crotch

[Anonymous No.]

>>11907599
>>11909342
Who are you quoting, onee-san-tachi?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909342
Nobunaga embraced superior gaijin weaponry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909647
I see he also embraced anime hair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909647
It bothers me how it's easy to find historical drama about Europe kings, and yet it's hard as fuck to find one about Nobunaga and how he conquered Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909868
Its because Europe is more important, and better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909940
But Japanese story is interesting.

I'd like to know when exactly they stopped having honorable battles and started doing real warfare.

[Disability-san No.]

>>11909868
It bothers me how Nobunaga killed so many people unfairly with gaijin weaponry. All those men hoped to die with at least honor and Nobunaga just mowed them down with guns like nothing. If he hadn't done it than another damiyo would have, he just takes the fall since it was him. None the less he lacked honor to this regard and anyone who else would have done it would be just as guilty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878274
Genghis Khan burned down villages and towns creating a wasteland and then called it peace. Sure the trade routes work great when there is no people left to turn to banditry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909960
have you seen "the last samurai"? yeah

[None !u.ddykRmDU No.]

>>11909962
Uniting Japan is more important than being honourable.
Otherwise the Portuguese woulda kept exploiting them.


>>11909965
The movie with that scientologist faggot? Yeah. I did.

It was a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909940
Europe history is stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11912382
Did medieval europe respect honor? What i have in textbook is all about edgy and greediness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11912895
Kinda. There was duels between nobles, but except for that, it was chronic betrayal and backstabbing all around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869491
that one's easy: he was just a huge dick
he hated Buddhists in Japan so much that he gave himself the same title as Mara, which is more or less the Buddhist equivalent to Satan. (there's more metaphor involved but Mara is basically the devil) He'd then pick fights with Buddhists knowing they wouldn't fight back and slaughter them because Nobunaga was THE MOST atheist. He took Euphoric to a whole other level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909868
I'm pretty sure Japan has a bunch of those that were never exported because nobody outside Japan cares.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11912382
Your jealousy is palpable, darkie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914206
Is there any theory on why he was so euphoric towards the Buddhists?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914244
Warrior monks

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914260
Ah I had forgotten about them, makes sense now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914211
>"you are nobody, Anon"
O-okay... B-but reading books is a bit boring...
;_;

[Anonymous No.]

How historically accurate was Hyouge Mono?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
Oda Nobunaga was a gay homo who had anal sex with Ranmaru and Mitsuhide punished him for his sins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914716
I dropped it after it was revelaed Hideyoshi had treacherous intentions. He probably had but I don't want to believe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914743
He never had. He's a good guy.
No matter how much shit Nobunaga threw at him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11915576
Reminder that Nobunaga give Nene mental support because her husband act like monkey in heat.

[Disability-san No.]

>>11909967
>Otherwise the Portuguese woulda kept exploiting them.
The missionaries did a lot for Japan man. Tokogawa didnt want the people educated or the individual thought pattern given in Christianity, as a personal relationship to god is inherit, to destroy the social order of hive mindedness Japan bases everything off of to be destroyed.

[None !u.ddykRmDU No.]

>>11915806
Destroying something that works fine just because you don't like it isn't really something I would consider as "good".

[Anonymous No.]

>>11914723
つhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty#Japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>11915856
>つ

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
Because he's an hero.

[Anonymous No.]

Samurai is not a little gay

and i also

[Anonymous No.]

>>11917897
>Samurai is not a little gay

He is a lot gay?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11917897
He is handsomely gay?

[Anonymous No.]

I think Nobunaga is a good guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909962
Are you autism Disability-san?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869691
>unifying land

Nobunaga wasn't even close , it was Toyotomi that united all of Japan and invaded Korea

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
He's basically Japanese Alexander the Great, but x1000 times more cruel and wacky. He loved guns and used them to win battles and conquer places while everybody else was using katanas and shit. He also never gave a fuck about anything, (one of his best bros was an african-american whom he recruited into his ranks)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922364
He was a third of the way there and bets were on him doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922388
and this is why you shouldn't japanese history from weeabos

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889037
All right I haven't been so mad about a spoiler since 1603.
Yeah, my bad, shouldn't have read it, but damn, man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
He was a huge fucking dick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922513
>He has a huge fucking dick.
Damn right he has.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922388
>african-american
>mid-1500's

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909962
People seem to think that no one used guns before Nobunaga did, but this wasn't the case. They were just really lousy at the time compared to footsoldiers and cavalry, with extremely poor aim and distance. Nobunaga was the first guy to use a 3-man rotation with muskets so that charging cavalry couldn't reach them in-between reloads. It changed war there so that the days when one person could change the tide of the battle were over, and made it way more about numbers. It has more to do with finding a more efficient way to kill people that hadn't been used before, rather than there being ethical reasons against it.

>>11922671
The story was that he was a slave brought over by foreigners, and Nobunaga was interested in him because of his uniqueness. They scrubbed his skin to make sure it was actually that color, so that kind of tells you how rare it was at the time. There's a wiki article on him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

[Anonymous No.]

What's your favorite fictional portrayal of Nobunaga, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922745
The one I saw in Shogun, where he's a manipulating yet friendly asshole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922645
Fujoshi, please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11923086
I thought fujoshi never care about Nobunaga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11922388
>while everybody else was using katanas
Actually,the leading causes of injury have been bow and arrow(roughly 66~75%). By 1580s,injury caused by guns were equal to bow and arrow.(from "Weapons and Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior, 1200-1900").
As Sengoku-era warlord,avoiding risks/ minimizing casualties/taking out enemy forces beyond their range must be quite important.
>11922671
Just face the fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

[Anonymous No.]

>>11923384
Everyday i learn something new. Are you studying that anon?

[Anonymous No.]

Anime with historically accurate Nobunaga when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11923384
Why the fuck did nobody use a shield when everyone has a bow

[Anonymous No.]

>>11924526
Same fucking question each fucking time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11924631
Because it's the most obvious question. They should have had wooden shields.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
>in otaku culture

It's Japanese culture, not otaku culture.

Oda Nobunaga is one of the most prominent and important figures in Japanese history. He was the catalyst for Japan's unification under the Tokugawa shogunate. If he hadn't been around, the Tokugawa era that lasted until the late 19th century never would have existed.

His importance is drilled into Japanese people starting in primary school.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
Best Nobunaga is from Onimusha
now I need to go play that again

[Anonymous No.]

>>11924834
You mean there are Japanmen who aren't otaku?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11924526
A better question is why they _stopped_ using shields.

http://samuraiantiqueworld.proboards.com/thread/28/use-shields-japan?page=1#scrollTo=28

The answer the poster suggests (citing printed books) is that attaching oversized shoulder pads to armor took over the same function. Greek hoplites hung their shields from themselves to allow them to use both hands on their spear, so the idea of the boundary between shield and armor being fluid seems plausible.

[Anonymous No.]

Naginata are underated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889510
>>11894443

I found direct download and torrent links here if anyone else was searching.
http://forum.indowebster.com/showthread.php?t=465220

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928654
Subbed? Tell me it's subbed. I don't care if it's a lie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928842
It's subbed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928842
It's hard subbed in English. You should be able to find a hard subbed Japanese version on PD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928654
>direct download doesn't work
>torrent requires registering
WHY
OH GOD WHY
I JUST WANT TO RELEASE MY INNER NOBUNAGA FANBOY
WHYYYYYYYY

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869454
Japan had been in a constant state of internal war before Oda almost united it, and the unification that occurred shortly after his death was very much his doing.

Couple that with the romanticism of the samurai and sengoku era and you have a pretty easy and iconic figurehead to churn things out based on.

He's the Japanese equivalent of an American founding father, they just like pumping silly fiction out more than America. I'd totally watch cartoons about Lincoln being a badass, shame America doesn't seem to want to do that kinda stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928853
I will deliver the files to you eventually but I hope that somebody beats me to it. A friend of mine has a copy of these and I will ask them to either upload it somewhere or create a public torrent when I get in contact with them later tonight.

If someone else grabs a copy of the torrent though they can just recreate it as a public one from the files they downloaded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928864
>I'd totally watch cartoons about Lincoln being a badass, shame America doesn't seem to want to do that kinda stuff.
Luckily, Japan delivers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928654
Nice, indowebster link. Thanks anon.
>>11924519
It won't sell . Better read novel or watch drama.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928872
But novels don't do justice to Nobunaga. Even my personal favourite, Clavell's Shogun, takes some liberties and doesn't narrate the whole civil war between the capos.


>>11928865
I didn't mean to sound aggressive or anything. Geez, it was a joke. I'm just disappointed, not pissed off or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928895
I didn't take it aggressively I just wanted to make sure everyone gets a copy since this is harder to find now than it was before. I'd be upset if you wanted it and couldn't manage to get it so I wanted to help out.

I have a hard time gauging inflection from text alone and I'm probably bad at conveying it when I'm this tired. It could be autism. /blog

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928901
Nah, it's the picture.
You used a picture of a cute girl almost crying, of course I assumed you felt insulted or attacked.
Next time, post a picture of a nigger giving me the middle finger while asking me to have illicit sex with a fellow male of my neighbourhood and I'll interprety your post totally differently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928864
>what the fuck did you say? My Obamacare is "stupid"? You punk ! I'll take you down !

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928903
I'll do better next time, for now let's not get off topic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928910
Right.

Back on topic, why did Nobunaga hated Buddhists so much? I can understand why he would dislike hostile sects, but hating the whole religion seems a bit excessive, even from the fool of Owari.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928912
Their ideals surrounding peace probably conflicted with Nobunaga's own ideals. Warlords like war and warriors not docile citizens (presumably).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928920
PEACE?
We're talking about fanatic warrior monks. And Nobunaga wasn't a blood-thirsty asshole doing things out of cruelty, he has an objective, and a noble one on top of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11928864
Lincoln a fucking shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929001
Shut up, you're a sudist and a racist. That makes you one of the worst person on earth, right after people making LP on Youtube and advertising it in the Steam forums.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929018
He was the true american who loved freedom. He was not even from a rebelling state the constitution says when the state starts to rule with tyranny the people shall take their arms and destroy them. Lee was the true american patriot not that freedom hating whig bastard Lincoln.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929022
>implying freedom isn't overated.
You americafat have freedom. And you're wasting it on guns that you use to kill bullies in school, or to eat fast food that kills you.

Freedom well-spent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929025
Freedom was lost the day we dropped our isolationist doctrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929028
No. Freedom was lost when you refused communism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929018
>>11929025
I can't even tell if this is ironic or not, good job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929058
Everything is ironic.
I hate Youtubers even more than racists.

Fucking morons making LP videos where they just stare at unmoving screen while making "jokes" and then advertising their shit on Steam forums.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929053
That. Funny story left forgotten: Stalin wanted nothing more than a friendly relationship with both England and America. All the documents dating of WW2 are unanimous on this question. He wanted a healthy, friendly, peaceful relationship between equal.

Then Truman went full retard and paranoid because of jews, and half the American society was convinced overnight that Stalin wanted it dead. What a Freedom loving people, really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929053
>>11929069
Nice samefagging. Explain to me how everything you have(including yourself) is in any way freedom? When another societies values are completely different from our own, we ought to be suspicious. It doesn't help that communism leads to starvation, hyper corruption, and the deaths of dissenters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929081
We're not the same person you fucking cock-sucking nagger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929081
Explain to me how everything you have(including yourself) being owned by the state is in any way freedom.**

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929105
Communist states recognize personal property.

They could potentially take it from you, but most capitalist states can conscript you when it comes down to it.

[Anonymous No.]

The only one who is a communst is one who has yet to live in a communist nation. My grandpa who was a bigshot partisan said Austria-Hungary was better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929116
Communism is like a RL loli.
You can admire it, but don't touch it, and don't go in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929110
> Communist states recognize personal property.

So then why did the state forcibly kick landowners off their own land during the rise of the USSR? What does conscription have to do with it? We were talking about America, and there is no conscription in the USA. You don't think communist countries had conscription? Even if somehow a communist country doesn't have conscription, the fact remains if you can't even say you own your own property or your own body, you are not free. This is my last reply, this thread is supposed to be about Oda Nobunaga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929135
Factors of production such as fields and factories are not "personal property." The rise of the USSR was pretty shitty for a lot of reasons, I'll grant you that much.

>there is no conscription in the USA
There is conscription in the United States when the government thinks it's necessary. It just so happens that things are pretty peachy right now.

>this thread is supposed to be about Oda Nobunaga.
I'm addicted to derailing threads. Unfortunately I can't really contribute worth a shit to the thrad proper because my interest in Japanese history only picks up during the Meiji era.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929105
I don't care m8. I'm just saying the "Freedom" loving USA was the one to actually start the cold war because it was paranoid, distrustful and actively sought war with Stalin. That you don't know that, and still believe the cold war was inevitable, is only proof that you have been thoroughly brainwashed.

You can't have freedom when you are brainwashed anon. It's kind of, you know, not possible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929140
>Meiji era
Reminds me what the Meiji Era is? It's the FotS campaign for Shogun 2, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929144
Something like that. Emperor and constitution up, shogun and samurai down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929147
And the Republic. And the Portuguese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929105
Yeah, everything you have being owned by someone else sucks a lot. That's why sane people abhor capitalism.

>>11929110
>Communist
>states

No state on earth ever called itself communist, because that would be an oxymoron, and they knew their ideology, even though they rarely actually practiced it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929192
True.
They say The People's State of Whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

Let's play the Heike Monogatari drinking game /jp/.

1. Take a sip whenever a man cries, twice if he cries so much that his tears wet the sleeves of his robes. Take a swig if a large group of men are crying and their tears all wet their sleeves.

2. Take a sip whenever a samurai (or a concubine) becomes a monk (or a nun.) Twice if he threatens to be a monk as a bluff but goes back on it.

3. Take a swig whenever the Emperor does something "most awesomely" (such awesome acts include writing poems, shedding tears or giving the rank of a prestigious courtesan to a damn bird, complete with the yearly salary of some ridiculous amount of rice.)

4. Take a sip whenever someone drowns. Upgrade to a swig if people drown en masse and to a shooter if it's because of their own stupidity (Let's attack those boats on our horses! We cannot lose, the Emperor favors us!)

5. A swig whenever Kiyomori loses it and decides to wreck the Imperial family's shit. A shooter whenever he actually does it.

6. A swig whenever the author complains about how the days of Buddhist law are ending and how the world has become corrupt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929252
7. A sip whenever civilian houses (and the civilians inside them) are burned to begin a confrontation. A swig if a temple is burned in the process and the monks go crazy over it.

8. Take a swig for every dumb pun and misunderstanding on the part of Yoshinaka. Two swigs if the author calls him boorish (but fuck the author, Yoshinaka is awesome.)

9. A sip for every poem. A swig for each reply to previously mentioned poems. Another swig if the poem earns its composer some ridiculous sobriquet (Who-gives-a-shit Chamberlain is especially notable.)

10. A sip for every exile. A swig if the process of escorting the exile is given vast amounts of unnecessary detail, two swigs every time we get back to the lives of previously exiled people.

11. Take a sip for every miracle. Twice if it was prayed for beforehand (in Japan you can order and pay for miracles.) Thrice if the god personally appears or possesses a spirit medium and names his price.

12. A sip for every time a precedent is mentioned. Twice if the author notes that a new precedent has been set and that it's a terrible event that has upset the court. A swig if the precedent in question is explained in full detail, two swigs if the precedent was from China.

13. Down the whole bottle and stop for the day after the battles where the Genji completely crush the Heike forces. Kurikara, Ichi-no-Tani, Dan-no-Ura.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929260
>A sip for every poem
Bitch you want me dead or what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929263
Playing this game would kill anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889037
And he basically kidnapped the loli too.

Genji is a fucking idiot though and he pisses me off.

>boo hoo I treat all the women in my life like shit, why are my relationships so unhappy?

[Anonymous No.]

How did warrior monks even become a thing? It makes even less sense than the Christian templars.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929332
Probably to prevent governments from forcefully doing away with the competition for the common people's loyalty. Also, places of worships usually double as sanctuaries, so it needs to be able to function as one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929332
Because they thought that dedication and martial art could lead them to Nirvana.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929332
First of all I think it had something to do with these temples having all sorts of special privileges, including tax exemption.

And like >>11929374 said these monks practiced fighting as a form of meditation.

So some of these temples became really powerful and wealthy and when they didn't get their way they'd start busting heads.

Nobunaga and Kiyomori wouldn't put up with that which is why Buddhist scholars made them out to be such bad guys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929927
>tax exemption
I swear, in every fucking country these self-righteous faggots think they can be exempted from taxes.

Fucking assholes. "Egality" my ass, how can you preach egality if you don't have to work your ass off to pay taxes?

[Grand Master No.]

>>11929950
Haha get a look at good look at this peasant serf scum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929960
>templar
>the ultimate hypocrisy
At least Phillipe le Bel burned you all faggots at the stake after torturing you for years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929961
Well actually it was the Teutonic Knights I posted not the Knights Hospitaler

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929966
At least Knights are bound to die for the King.
Religious scholars aren't. They just sit on their asses all day, learning the Holy Bible, and constantly whine "buuuut we need donnnaaations" while not paying any taxes and not working their asses at doing something actually useful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929968
Say what you want but the the cadaver synod was amazing

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929950
Hey man, it takes money to feed clergymen and women and money to maintain their temples/churches/whatever. And they do spend a lot of their own resources helping the destitute and whatnot so it's generally a good thing to spare these institutions a few bucks.

That's not to say that warlord temples and mega-churches with multimillionaire pastors aren't a problem but not all religious people are greedy hypocrites. Take the current pope for instance, when he was the Archbishop of Argentina he refused to live in the Archbishop's lavish official residence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929972
what the fuck is that


Also, the Church was extremely corrupted. I don't know if Buddhists where corrupted too, but I wouldn't be surprised.

>>11929975
I can understand that. However, I hate the fact that a Church requires something else than churches to work.
You don't need to wipe your ass clean with silk when you're the head of a religious order.

And for the record, we're talking about the past. The current pope is a pretty cool guy, but what about the Buddhists? Were they cool?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929968
>not working their asses at doing something actually useful

Something like founding and running Europe's universities maybe?

Those clergymen were far more important that stuffy nobles who did nothing but fight one another and oppress the peasants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929982
Nobles created countires. Without them, the phony pope would rule everything. The nobles were necessary to maitain a national, or at least regional identity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929984
>countries
Dammit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929981
Buddhists can be hypocritical just as easily as anyone else. That's why warlord monks were a problem in Japan, or why the Buddhist theocracy was a problem in Tibet.

Trendy white kid pop orientalist pseudo-Buddhist hipsters like to imagine that Buddhists are perfect and always have been but that's because they know fuck all about the history of Asia. Or even current Asian events.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
Well, just like the pope, the Dalai-Lama looks like a decent dude.

But nobody's perfect, and even among treehuggers, you can find assholes.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Buddhists thinking that burning themselves isn't enough.


Only morons are thinking that Buddhists are all good. Like kiddos who are thinking that all Japanese are nice people.
That's sad to say, but you can find assholes everywhere.
But on the bright side, it also means there are nice people everywhere too. Even in USA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
Buddhism a shit.
Look at that fine ass. It's Taoism ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
Religion basically teaches good moral and compassion, but there will be always someone who will fuck it up by using distorted or exaggerated views on it, like "law of inversion" in Tibetan Buddhism or Puritan in Christian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990

>Anything fueling anti-muslims hate.
>Bad.

I agree with the posts but not the picture. As always occident is slurping and deepthroating the circumcised cock, be it muslim or jew, as hard as it can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930103
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930110
That meme was never funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930111
It was never supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930115
Good, because it never was.

It's only used by morons with no comeback.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930119
No one uses it in an argument either, moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930119
It was supposed to detect crossies who's abusing quote function, not to be funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930122
>insults
Wow you convinced me with your great argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930130
I wasn't insulting you, just stating a clearly observable fact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930134
Yeah, right, autist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930137
I hope you've learned a valuable lesson about using the quote function to make yourself look illiterate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930143
Whatever you say, autist.

[Anonymous No.]

It's not supposed to be funny. It's to detect crossboarder who tend to abuse quote feature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930145
What a clever bird. I think you deserve a cracker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11889468
>>11928654
>>11928851
Episode 33 has some technical difficulties (weird artifacts) but the rest should be fine.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:48F3B859EDA6D484C8385A86DB61245AB8B34EF2&dn=ODA%20KING%20OF%20ZIPANGU&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.ccc.de%3a80%2fannounce

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
I didn’t know Time published this. Impressive.

India’s having some bad clashing between northeastern Buddhists and Muslims and no one cares.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
When they start bombing and kidnapping the white man and his property is when Buddhism will become the big bad religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929975
So up to what point is a monastery allowed to skirt property and income taxes (so that they may ostensibly fulfill their humanitarian roles) and amass capital and influence? Should the government tax religious institutions that aren't "sufficiently" charitable?

Remember how warrior-monks came to establish themselves. Once you start making exceptions based on subjective criteria, you enter a dangerous grey area.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11929990
buddhists can be bad like all other humans but it still doesnt compare to the pure retardation of a critical mass of muslim faggots building up in a country

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930949
my name is Chaim and I agree with this statement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930343
Nah. China is the big bad now.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm more curious on the fascination of the Three Kingdoms period among so many otaku (or at least, the portrayal of so many otaku being interested in the Three Kingdoms period). What is up with that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11930969
>>11930949
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9808539/Muslim-vigilantes-confront-Londoners-in-name-of-Islam.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10666129/Muslim-boys-school-bans-women-from-applying-for-job-as-science-teacher.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9831912/I-feel-like-a-stranger-where-I-live.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/french-intifada-arab-banlieues-fighting-french-state-extract
"In twenty years, France will be a colony of its former colonies." - Putin.

>>11931012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10653183/China-training-for-short-sharp-war-against-Japan.html

[Anonymous No.]

He said it

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869834
thank you

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931028
It's like the Sengoku Jidai. It's a huge civil war who turned into mythical stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931012
So China was nicknamed the Yellow Peril.

How do we name the muslim peril?
The Rag Terror? The Bearded Horror?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931118
>The Bearded Horror
E salaam Aleikoum !

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931028
>Three Kingdoms period
I understand it as Chinese "三国志",right?
According to "日本的 中国的"(陳舜臣),http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%89%E5%9B%BD%E5%BF%97#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.AB.E3.81.8A.E3.81.91.E3.82.8B.E4.B8.89.E5.9B.BD.E5.BF.97.E3.81.AE.E5.8F.97.E5.AE.B9.E3.81.A8.E6.B5.81.E8.A1.8C
et al,it became pop culture in China→become popular in Edo era. So it has quite a long tradition.(For example,Google "三国志 浮世絵")

See also:
三国志の英雄達を描いた歌川国芳の浮世絵
http://japanese.china.org.cn/photos/2011-11/03/content_23813449.htm

http://www.eisai.co.jp/museum/curator/edo/detail/20.html
華陀(Hua Tuo) operating on 関羽(Guan Yu)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Tuo#Fictional_accounts

[Anonymous No.]

I find it a funny funny that some westerners are completely obsessed with Japanese culture.

Especially when you remember that during the Meiji era, the Japanese were the one obsessed with western culture.

I wish I could be immortal to see how everything will be in 200 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931400
There was a era of japanophilia around 1860-1890 in France I believe

[None !u.ddykRmDU No.]

>>11931406
Try 1860-2014 instead.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm calling bullshit on that.
Making a cannon out of wood? Impossible. It would burn or explode with the charge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931041
>>11930949
/pol/ pls leave

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931439
I think it would do for like one shitty shot, but then it's done

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931611
That stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

Which daimyo is worse daimyo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931914
moot is worse daimyo.
He never got in any fight, my blade is rusty because I never use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931439
The Vietnamese used wooden cannons.

>>11931914
There were plenty of lame ones. Asakura Yoshikage was pretty mediocre for example. I also think that Mori Terumoto was pretty lame and only kept power at all because of the achievements of his father. There is not much you can say favorably about somebody like Imagawa Ujizane.

Others were powerful figures that likely had some talent, but made retarded and disastrous decisions. This includes Imagawa Yoshimoto, Hojo Ujimasa and Otomo Sorin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931400
America maybe more believable. They have no actual culture after all, so adapting other's culture is clearly a good choice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933647
Speaking from a European perspective, the US definitely has a distinct culture of its own. It's built on top of the culture the European and other settlers (and later, immigrants) brought with them as well as the cultures of the natives, but all culture is built on top of other culture.

Also, people being enamored with a culture different from their own is nothing uncommon and is hardly something that only happens with Japanese culture nor does it only occur in America.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933718
Hey hey, there's no place for "reason" or "logic" in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933647
America has a culture of its own. The love of guns, the god craze and the belief that capitalism is a good thing are elements of its culture found nowhere else.

Of course, most of it is propaganda set for good reasons by the rich to control the poor, but we could argue that the constant brainwashing define, and in fact is, the culture of the US. By instance, the hero culture formed around your fast food founders. Yes, that's propaganda for your fast food, but nowhere else you'll find kids worshipping the founder of KFC or McDonald's (or even know their name, really). Broadly speaking, it's culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933749
>worshipping McDonalds
Have you ever actually been to america?

Oh wait, shit, I just got rused didn't I.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933749
>The love of guns
Nobody loves guns more than Switzerland.

>the god craze
America is practically atheist compared to Israel

>capitalism is a good thing are elements of its culture found nowhere else
Every country believes capitalism is a good thing. Even the communist ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933753
>>11933762

No need to be asspained. It wasn't an attack, you know. Your country has a culture on its own, it's true. It's kind of shitty for a culture, but again no country has a truly non shitty culture.

Though some of your answer make me worry for your ability to be analytic. Truth to be told? I pity you. To be born in one of the most brainwashed country of earth, even beyond China, to believe what your newspapers say to you, to worship god like he's real, and to believe in your own conscience to be free (!) is a burden I would want to no one. Though you probably will never open your eyes, you have my utmost sympathy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933780
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933749
I am American and I enjoy sitting on the porch snacking on a peach or an orange with some sweet tea while dixieland plays on the radio as I check my lawn and wait for a pizza man to arrive so I can tip the man and then bring down the flag and then eat (on the porch) and go inside to sleep with the windows and doors open knowing that I'll be safe because of the gun I keep under my bed.

[Anonymous No.]

this thread is taking a terrible turn

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933780
I don't consider those people Americans. They're just idiots. Sure, they are Americans, but they're idiots first. Now, there are still lots of actual people in the US who really don't care about religion and who keep an open mind about and remain critical towards most things in life, especially news from US sources and a lot of what the government says. They're not the majority, but they're out there if you look. Not everyone's how you think.

Oddly, it's always immigrants in American who seem more American than Americans who come from older American families.

[Anonymous No.]

ご苦労様、メイド

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933794
>Oddly, it's always immigrants in American who seem more American than Americans who come from older American families.

That's cultural assimilation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11933786
It was bound to happen.

Anytime anything remotely related to history or politics happens, the /pol/tards show up just to shit all over eachother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11931939
But moot isn't a daimyo. If he started a fight we'd all just call him a huge faggot (which we do anyway) and continue life like normal. 4chan isn't his army.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934052
Some people just can't take a joke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934052
>disrespecting your daimyo

[Anonymous No.]

>>11869491
>What I'd rather know is why is he portrayed as some kind of evil overlord so often?


Because he broke with tradition.

That's basically it.

Sure, he wasn't very nice, but neither were other warlords during the sengoku jidai.

But they didn't break with tradition. Oda Nobunaga did. He basically shat all over tradition, which makes him literally Satan.

[Anonymous No.]

Still waiting for a Shogun 2 mod that adds the 4chan clan.
>emblem is a 4 leaf clover
>units are screaming "ur a faget" and "reported" when charging
>they scream "u mad" when enemies are running away
>general screams "here's some CP" then boosting the army's morale
>they scream "OP DELIVERS" when they're ready to fight again

[Anonymous No.]

Emperor Meiji is pretty important guy.

He helped make Curry popular in japan, and he also shares my birthday, november 3rd; which is now Culture day.

could it be Otaku Culture day? perhaps, it is a day for all kinds of culture and artistic merits to be rewarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878352
>If Nobunaga had lived and launched the campaign in Korea himself he might have been more comparable to Alexander.
Bitch please

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934637
Otaku is a culture only in the same sense that bacterial is a culture, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934689
It's difficult to fathom just how crap the Japanese were in naval matters at the time compared to the Koreans and the Ming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934637
>Otaku Culture
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934689
Who the fuck is Admiral-Yi-Sun-Sin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11942906
Apparently Hideyoshi too hasty when invading korea and this man got lucky to beat him in several naval battles.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally I think the Boshin War is far more interesting than Sengoku Jidai or the Edo period

[Anonymous No.]

>>11943704
弥生時代 is the best one. 卑弥呼 best girl

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934705
Woah holy fuck that burn was toasty

[Anonymous No.]

>>11943704
Which war is it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11934705
#rekt

[Anonymous No.]

>>11878550

I remember in a documentary somewhere that Genghis Khan fucked so many women and had so many babies that literally 25% of Asia's entire population could traces their roots back to him.

[Disability-san No.]

>>11931439
>Making a cannon out of wood? Impossible. It would burn or explode with the charge.
Learn your firearms please. They have live demonstrations of wooden cannons. Wooden cannons were the first ones to be used in Europe. Also they've shown these kinds of entire tree trunk cannons hollowed out firing high ranges on TV/

inb4CuaseTVisrealzMehn
>>11943704
Yes. Was a pretty bloody revolution despite Japanese text books saying otherwise. Have you heared of the Akage Rebellion? The two prominent clans around Meiji set up two divisions Akage Troop units. One was the White/black Akage Troops and the other was the Red Akage. The Red Akage was under the White/Black Akage Command and tasked with spreading Imperial messages of elimination of certain taxes and other peasant paradise ideals.

The Red Lion was meant to bring out all those factions in villages who opposed the Imperial troops to come out of hiding, but the Red Akage troops didn't know this. Instead the Red Akage were tricked by the Imperial comand and White/Black Akage Troops in order to have them run through the towns denouncing the Red Akage as rebels misusing the Imperial Ceal, thus punishable by death. All Red Akage were killed serving the dastardly plans of the Two Clans manipulatiunbg Meiji. The Red Lion/Akage Troop/Unit were later m,emorilized in several statues at the end of the Meiji era. Meiji claimed them to be saints/martyrs for his Imperial success. I want to believe Meiji had no knowledge of this like most happenings in this early period.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11952165
Fuck off, Sean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11942959
>lucky
How you actually go read some history

[Anonymous No.]

>>11953831
I was biased there, i hate worst Korea after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11953831
Yeah he wasn't lucky at all. He just had the entire chinese navy to help him. Gooks never won anything themselves, you see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11954111
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Myeongnyang

[Disability-san No.]

>>11934689
The Koreans always relied upon China. By the time China was trying to mive into a modern army Korea had already been anuxed by Japan. Korean military was only as strong when China was equiped. Japan destroyed all Korean forces in their first "midevil" campain of the peninsula. Korean Emperor and general of pulverized handful of troops beggwd the Chinese high court to intervein. Japan lost the first Korean war to China, not Korea. China in turn became lord of Korea with the Korean Emperor his lesser divine vassel.

We csn speculate all we want on what could have been if Nobunaga didnt die and invaded Korea, he died. In my opinion reguardless of how Tokugawa handled Christians he was more level headed than Nobunaga. I wouldnt put it past Nobunaga to invade Korea instead of focusing on stabalizing a newly united Japan risking his shogunate demise, but also loosing all of Japan not only to western powers divying up the islands , but to possibly the Chinese as well, since China would have interveined for Korea. The home state would have fallen back into civilwar while troops were on mainland. If not that than he would have triggered a campain war against mainland china which economiclly Japan would have lost not even considering battlefeild victories/losses.

Tokugawa focused interior rather than exterior, which is what Japan needed at the time. Perhaps Tokugawa focused too much on interior.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11956222
But wikipedia can be easily manipulated. Who knows? Maybe a korean who feel butthurt about glorious Japan domination posting a biased article about him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11957323
I hate to say this as a Korean but this is probably true

[Anonymous No.]

>>11956514
Fuck off Sean

[Anonymous No.]

>>11957323
check the sources

[Anonymous No.]

>>11957486
*farts in ur face*

["Disability-san !!RR4hvEq+VqE No.]

Lets talk about how Miyamoto Musahsi in this Era. He was said to be only 16 when he entered the battle of sekigahara

>>11891623
Why did Nobunaga kill so many of the monks?
>>11891605
>Also Sohachi Yamaoka said on his novel, young Nobunaga act outrageously wild to catch his mother's attention. Which is sad because it never work.
What was the nature of Nogbunaga's attention seeking to his mother? Simply praise and love?
>>11890353
Seems his seppuku replaced Nobunaga's own seppuku his mother or others might have demanded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11958963
Fuck off Sean

[Anonymous No.]

>>11958963
>Why did Nobunaga kill so many of the monks?
As described above,
or see http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4415107753
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mount_Hiei et al,
Ashikaga Yoshiaki ordered secretly corresponded with various warlords and monk warriors, forging an anti-Nobunaga alliance. Growing power of religious fundamentalist priests was real threat to warlords. In fact,Enryaku-ji has worked as "safe house" for the Azai and Asakura clans(at that time,attacking "holy place" was a taboo)

[Anonymous No.]

Any anime depicting the Sengoku war with precision?
I heard that one with a female Nobunaga wasn't too bad, except for the whole AU part (like Nobunaga sparing his brother instead of slaughtering him).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11909962
Tactics is unfair, eh? Too bad.
>>11915806
>Organized religion meant to bring people together
>individual
Also, asians who become christians are traitors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11960466
>anime
Basically,fictions are fictions after all,they are far from historical facts.
Just consider 新島八重(pic).
But some anime,such as 劇場版アニメ 忍たま乱太郎 忍術学園 全員出動！の段 http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0050AF9ZQ/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2jHzWD56NE#t=162
and 映画 クレヨンしんちゃん 嵐を呼ぶアッパレ！戦国大合戦 http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0000DKKVB/
are thought to be precise,that's why they are highly rated.

["Disability-san !!RR4hvEq+VqE No.]

>>11960900
>Also, asians who become christians are traitors.
This is silly, but the aesthetics tied into the tradition of the land go hand in hand with their Eastern faiths, so to a certain extent you have point, but what is tradition of man compared the the tradition of God?
>Tactics is unfair, eh? Too bad.
I suppose "unfairly" wasn't the appropriate word. In terms of Bushido I should have said un-honroably.

I wish I had a Japanese hand cannon...

["Disability-san !!RR4hvEq+VqE No.]

>>11960940
Are pretty Samurai women simply a farce?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961115
Someone seems to be overcompensating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961115
Matchlock my ass. That's a fucking canon that Heavy Weapon Guy got there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11957323

About a year ago a huge weeab edited the result of the Imjin War as a "Pyrrhic victory" for Korea/China HA HA

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961118
I am awfully sorry for misleading you.(my English being so terrible,that is)
My point is
"describing historical events as they actually were" would make stories boring.
I just thought we should relax and enjoy fiction,just separating fact from fiction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961395
As long as fiction is built on fact, I can enjoy it.
But when the fiction is built on nothing, I can't enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961395
>describing historical events as they actually were would make stories boring
Buuulllshiiiiiit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNMoi5Af1SY
(4 part video series:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbBHk_zLTmY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf0-Yki5p40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_rev5VAQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McT1H-NVCMQ
History is utterly fantastic just on its own. Unless you insist upon the most boring and cynical interpretation of it you can conceive of, or cant appreciate stories in a way based around a sense of empathy and context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961287
I'm going pretty offtopic here, but battlerealms was great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961562
This is shit, and boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961643
You're shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961643
Plebeian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961665
No, really, it's shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961690
For not thinking that middle school level chipmunked stick figures using flash animation and stock photos are the best way to show how "history is utterly fantastic just on its own"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961698
For placing petty distaste for the style of animation and video above the actual story of rome which it presents perfectly clearly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961701
Distaste because it's shit, i know that you're 15 and this is THE MOST EPIC THING EVER to you, but wait some years and you'll realize how this is pretty retarded and, heh, low-brow, low-class plebeian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961705
Given you present no real content, but rather just throw empty insults, I cant much present a counter argument to nothing. I suppose you're just a self important cunt who likes to think themself "mature," latching onto delusions and stupidity to facilitate it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961734
What content should i present to prove that the stuff you posted is objectively lacking quality?
Answer: None, because anyone can see that my criticism is fitting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961739
Not him, but he has a point. His videos, while not great, are good at presenting ancient history. Unless you can come up with something better, he has the upper hand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961786
They're somewhat entry level, but they are meant to be. They're not for people who already study history. Theres little reason for them to be- they'd already know of such things.
I stopped responding to him for a reason though. Its best to ignore people like that, and I probably should have stopped earlier anyway. Just got a bit annoyed, and I have a tendency to be stubborn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961637
I know right?
Such hype for the Lotus sequel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961814
>I stopped responding to him for a reason though. Its best to ignore people like that, and I probably should have stopped earlier anyway. Just got a bit annoyed, and I have a tendency to be stubborn.
Stop blogging faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961816
Im suggesting to that poster that itd be best for him not to respond either. Hence the "for a reason," and that it was only by my own fault I responded as much as I did. Best not to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961818
You answered anyway. And talking about yourself is prohibited.
If you want to talk, talk about how Nobunaga is a champ and everyone else a chimp.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11961786
>His videos, while not great,
Understatement.

[Anonymous No.]

Whoever suggested the tea anime deserves a beer.

I haven't laughed that much for weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

But it seems to start quite late during the Sengoku, since Oda is already the Shogun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11899948
I think you remember wrongly, or are you saying that character who boiled the whitu piggus alive was a representation of nobunaga?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11962625
No, Nobunaga is the one that buried his rival to the neck and had random people trying to saw his neck. Guy lasted 3 days.
Nobunaga is called Toranaga in the novel. Easy to spot.

The fatass that boiled people alive and fapped to their screaming is someone else.
He ends up driving a blade in his belly.

[Anonymous No.]

Was Nobunaga a muscular dude?
I always saw him as a slender man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11962692

Muscular dudes didn't exist before the 20th century because they didn't have squats and protein shakes.

["Disability-san !!RR4hvEq+VqE No.]

>>11961162
I don't quite follow.
>>11961287
Yes, I just want a match lock too, so I labeled that. There is a crappy fake katana (I guess sharp enough to do the job, but I wouldn't rely on it in a home invasion/whatever combat) that is shethed and handled like a matchlock. Pitty. I would love to buy an athentic Japanese hand cannon and matchlock.


Speaking of which, I never understood why Tokogawa clan family never kept advancing their home defence technology. They were so behind when Perry came. Their match locks didn't stand a chance. Japanese weaponry experts could have a least been hired in private secrecy to forge and experiment new weapons for the Tokugawa clan. I suppose they were afraid of another uprising or rebellion from other Daimyo, but that doesn't seem to be a plausible reason, because Tokugawa could have just equipped themselves with the leaked weaponry faster than the competing lord. I understand their Isolation, but not there weaponry Isolation policy.
>>11961395
Ahhhh I see thanks. Hey, I have that same set of Kabuki pictures.
tfw no samurai gf :(