Umineko is [spoiler] good. [/spoiler]

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Anonymous Mon Dec 30 21:45:19 2013 No.11758806 [DELETED]

Umineko is good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 21:51:35 2013 No.11758824 File: 560 KB, 500x439, 1379372072249.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] i hope for you this is a k-layer-ironically thread with k complex, ℜ(k) > 1, otherwise...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 21:53:19 2013 No.11758829 I liked Higurashi more. Both of them have good music though. Who can actually hate on Dai or ZTS?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 21:54:35 2013 No.11758834 File: 97 KB, 767x538, beaturiche.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 21:56:05 2013 No.11758838 >>11758806 I loved it, EP8 is my fav.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 22:04:19 2013 No.11758853 Yeah, DID. Real compelling mystery Zun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 22:09:04 2013 No.11758871 >>11758853 Umineko WAS good until they added all the Yasu shit to it. They made something good into shit with all the LEL DID XDDDD stuff.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 22:19:22 2013 No.11758894 >>11758853 >ZUN What? You mean scaji.

Anonymous Mon Dec 30 22:53:01 2013 No.11759005

>>11758871
Ow nay man. I still don't buy all that Yasu shitte. To me, Yasu doesn't exist. Not meant to offend anyone... but... I'll repeat this once more...
"Explain Umineko without ♦Shknontrice/Shannontrice/Shkanon
♦Rosatrice
♦Jessitrice
♦Gohdatrice
♦Without Eva as culprit, nor Natsuhi, Kyrie or Rudolf.
♦Don't even mention Yasu.
♦Can't have servants as culprits.
Protips:
>You won't. Not because you can't, but because you don't want to."
Don't simply accept Bern's lies. The moment you eat from the witch's hand, it's the moment you know you stopped thinking.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 22:55:46 2013 No.11759008 >>11758806 Don't you mean "<GOOD>"

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 23:09:32 2013 No.11759058 Umineko is almost as epic win as your memebox. You guys want to roleplay as witches in this thread? I'll be Beatrice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 23:47:53 2013 No.11759153 >>11759008 <DIE THE DEATH>

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 30 23:58:52 2013 No.11759176 Its fanbase however is the worst.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:06:52 2013 No.11759197 >>11759176 It's the same for alot of things, thus we should stop talking about this and simply acknowledge that we enjoy it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:12:37 2013 No.11759208 File: 518 KB, 729x956, ber_a21_笑い３汗.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] <cackle>

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:33:30 2013 No.11759247 >>11759058 ill be marisa

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:36:00 2013 No.11759252 >>11759247 How do you pronounce battler in your heads as you read?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:45:22 2013 No.11759274 >>11759252 I pronounce it as 戦人（ばとら）.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:57:37 2013 No.11759300 >>11759252 "Sento-kun"

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 00:57:52 2013 No.11759301 >>11759274 I've always gone with Batora because I can't bring myself to say Battler.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:00:37 2013 No.11759304 >>11759252 bottler

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:06:39 2013 No.11759324 So was Erika real or not?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:14:22 2013 No.11759344 I still prefer Higurashi. And if we're including VNs, i like Higanbana better than Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:17:38 2013 No.11759350 >>11759344 Did higanbana relate in any way to the other games? I kind of liked that element. Pls no bully.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:43:08 2013 No.11759415 File: 154 KB, 680x1024, tumblr_lz4u1e8WEz1r27yzx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Where's that artbook Ryukishi is supposed to be releasing for this Comiket, anyway?

Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:53:37 2013 No.11759442
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>>11759350
Nope, only Higurashi and Umineko are (somewhat) directly connected, being from the same "series," When They Cry. Ryuu is not above referencing them in his other series, however...

>>11759415

So I'm not the only one who cares?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 01:55:37 2013 No.11759448 >>11759442 I can't remember if Lambdadelta was supposed to be someone. Bern was a dead giveaway though. Who is Lambda?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 02:14:38 2013 No.11759518 >>11759448 Miyo I believe is her name, the blonde girl who wanted to kill Rika

Anonymous Tue Dec 31 02:31:52 2013 No.11759591

>>11759518
That's right, Takano Miyo.
Even if many at first had thought it was Satoko. Me included.
I still believe Lambda has a little bit of Satoko in her, mainly because of her trickster attitude.
But the truth is, Ryukishi07 said Lambda is neither of them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 02:50:52 2013 No.11759647 >>11759591 Well damn.

Anonymous Tue Dec 31 20:33:53 2013 No.11762462

>>11759448
Bern is actually Keiichi. He's the one who did most of the work while Rika just stood around and thought about how she could get Akasaka to fuck her.

Rika became Lambda, then went back in time to cause the tragedy so she could meet Akasaka.

Anonymous Tue Dec 31 20:54:23 2013 No.11762541

>>11759005
Easy: Mariatrice.
Rosa is Beatrice II and Maria is the result of inbreeding. Also, Battler doesn't exist. How does he not exist? Well, for one, ‘Battler Ushiromiya’ exists on no government documents because he had moved out of the family register. How convenient. Also Eva slanders Kyrie and Rudolf to Ange's face all the time, but no mention of Battler. Besides, why is Battler the only one with such a retarded name?

Because he's an invention of a tiny loli, that's why. The truth behind Battler is that he was a fantasy started by Ange because her family sucked, just like Maria and Sakutaro. Maria wrote those stories with Battler in them to create the illusion that he existed, and Ange was too stricken with grief to tell reality from fiction. Battler's open slot allows us to separate Shannon and Kanon and bury that retarded, ad hoc theory for good.

Now you are probably asking how Maria committed the murders. Okay, I'll admit that that's a difficult question. Most probably, she didn't commit any individual murders at all, but simply activated the clock in the gold room. I cannot say at the moment, but I will certainly find the answer in my next reread.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 21:19:54 2013 No.11762624 >>11759350 >>11759442 Higanbana did have an expie of Sakutarou. And to me, it had the same "magic" as Higurashi/Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 21:30:54 2013 No.11762662 I wanna fuck Beatrics, hard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 31 21:38:39 2013 No.11762687 >>11762662 Have you told your family that your gay and have a nullification fetish yet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 00:34:35 2014 No.11763153 >>11762687 Fuck yasu, fuck shkanontrice. Beato is my pure female waifu and her magic is very real. (Not that anon btw.)

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 02:55:56 2014 No.11763606

It is but it drags out way too long

in the middle of EP 5 and EVEN I want Beato to die, holly fuck

I seriously go to bed and have dreams about this shit, a couple of nights ago I had a dream I was playing Arma2 that I got during the holiday sale and some faggot kept killing my troops, It was fucking Beato and I had to confirm that it was possible with the games code to do shit like that and it not be magic I swear

It ended up like "A few good men" or some shit

weird as fuck but yeah if I could get over this slow ass ep i'm sure 6,7,8 will pick right the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 03:01:41 2014 No.11763625 >>11763606 What did you smoke before sleeping, anon?

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 03:03:56 2014 No.11763634

>>11758894
>scaji
you spelled Nasu wrong

>>11762662
aren't you supposed to be dead Kinzo?

>>11763153
Bitchoriche magic
real

ahahahahaha she doesn't even do that shit for anybody Virigilia is the only pure waifu and she actually uses her magic to help people like witches are supposed to, she refined and doesn't dress like a slut with her tits half out fuck even Renove thinks she's better than Bitcho

get some fucking class and taste.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 03:36:29 2014 No.11763719 Someday I want to read this, just to get some context over what the hell you guys are talking about.

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 03:49:14 2014 No.11763751

>>11763625
WTC is really fun on drugs. If you like horror, try getting really high and reading any of the non-boring scenes. It's terrifying, especially the Rosa torture scenes, or whenever goats are tearing people apart.

On the other hand, Higurashi will make you alternate between pure bliss and horrible sadness. Especially Minagoroshi-hen, it's terrible, even after you've read it several times. It's very much like reading it for the first time; you can't even feel animosity towards Rika for spawning Bern or Miyo for being Miyo.

Higanbana and RGD still really suck though. Especially RGD. It's just not right to have a 07th Exp. novel without the shitty art, even if too many filters are used.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:15:53 2014 No.11764791 >>11763634 >Can't even reply greentexting properly >Won't bother writing Virgilia or Ronove's names right >"ahahahahaha" = ahahahahaha.wav Sorry m8. I'm not taking you seriously here. You sound way too much like Bernkastel. Like, way TOO MUCH.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:26:10 2014 No.11764817 Threads like this are what make me prefer /a/ over /jp/. Seacats threads in /a/ contain actual discussion and are fun to follow. Seacats threads in /jp/ are full of autists and "le epic /jp/ culture" retards. I'm out, please don't bother responding.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:28:24 2014 No.11764826 >>11763634 >nasu >DID Bad joke anon. >>11758894 Expect that DID in subarashiki hibi is good and well inserted in the story.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:32:54 2014 No.11764835 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAKkw71ff3U&list=RDsjIAEW7lBgM

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:37:39 2014 No.11764853 File: 458 KB, 640x480, 1294372837563.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11764817 >2014 >being this new

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 12:58:10 2014 No.11764927 >>11764817 ( ´,_ゝ`)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 15:18:32 2014 No.11765241 >>11764817 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAKkw71ff3U&list=RDsjIAEW7lBgM I'm not sure I've ever seen an Umineko thread in /a/. Not lately, at least.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 15:26:46 2014 No.11765264 >>11764817 /a/ is insufferable

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 15:46:47 2014 No.11765322 >>11765241 Archives to the rescue: http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/99421396/ I'm just not seeing any difference between the boards by this point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 17:09:52 2014 No.11765546 >>11758853 Wow, good job, you completely failed to get it. Tip, it's not DID.

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 17:16:22 2014 No.11765559
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>>11759005
I can't because that's like explaining how 1+1 doesn't actually equal 2.

Sorry anon but the 8 manga has confirmed that the 7 Tea Party is the contents of Eva's Diary, complete with a big full color spread with "This is all truth" written in Red.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:05:52 2014 No.11765745 >>11765559 Such defeatism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:15:25 2014 No.11765779 >>11765559 I want umineko mango.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:23:09 2014 No.11765803 >>11763719 Don't go down this rabbit hole anon. Only pain, suffering, confusion, and autism await.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:24:24 2014 No.11765805 >>11765559 Don't listen to witches, fool!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:29:24 2014 No.11765827 Green text beats red text. Beatrix: >>>/t/here were no other entrances to the room! Butler: >implying magic is real

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:36:09 2014 No.11765854

>>11765559
The hardcore deniers won't believe that.

According to them, using red proves it is NOT true. Because they believe red is something that can only be used by authors about their fictional work. (forgetting that umineko is a fictional work by an author)

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:52:28 2014 No.11765887

>>11765559

I'll have to wait until this comes out in English, but that seems questionable. I mean, Bernkastel said "This is all true-" in Red in the visual novel EP 7, but then said, "Yeah, I was trying to say, 'This is all true from a certain perspective,' before you're scream cut me off," in EP 8. So I imagine the manga might not be getting the full subtlety of that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:52:57 2014 No.11765890 >>11764817 Aren't all /a/ umineko threads the same three guys roleplaying?

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 18:54:28 2014 No.11765893

>>11763719
You must! There's no other VN as good as Umineko, IMHO.

>>11763751

“...a story should be like a roller coaster. That is to say before writing a really cruel scene, I have to lift the people's spirits, for example, with a fun scene... Before writing a scene of pure despair, we must go through scenes of hope. And indeed, when I write, all of this amuses me very much.”
― Ryukishi07

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 19:00:57 2014 No.11765908 File: 269 KB, 454x604, seacats rollercoaster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11765893 >a story should be like a roller coaster

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 20:01:31 2014 No.11766056

>>11765887
Nah the entire sequence before that red text is Bern mocking Ange on believing her on that silly excuse.

"This is all truth" is a complete sentence, no interruptions or any way to alternately interpret it.

Bern also says in Red "Ushiromiya Ange definitely died in 1998." Oh no whatever could it mean.

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 20:24:15 2014 No.11766106

>>11765890

I literally spent nights trying to figure out the mystery on umineko boards but when I realized most were RPers I slowly lost interest and didn't even read EP8.

Although it seems the details weren't meant to be as important as ryu07 played them out to be since he was a fantasyfag all along (door knocks, the money letters, locked rooms, epitaph riddle, colored text, riddles, number of people alive, etc)

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 21:45:08 2014 No.11766307

>>11766106
I spent a lot of time while reading Umineko and Higurashi thinking that R07 should just write fantasy because a lot of the meta scenes were great but a lot of his mystery plot devices were messy.
And then I started to read Higanbana and changed my mind completely.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 21:55:08 2014 No.11766322 >>11765887 THIS.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 22:33:10 2014 No.11766435 >>11763751 How many drugs do I need to do for EP8 to be any good?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 22:34:10 2014 No.11766441 >>11765559 >1+1 != 2 That one is easy 1/3 = 0.33333... 3/3=1 3* 0.33 = 3/3 = 0.99999 Therefore 1=0.9999.. Therefore 1+1=1.9999...8

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 22:52:24 2014 No.11766493 >>11766441 >Therefore 1+1=1.9999...8 wrong

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 23:07:24 2014 No.11766528 >>11766056 >"This is all truth" is a complete sentence, no interruptions or any way to alternately interpret it. Didn't you see how it was written in the VN? It ended with a dash.

Anonymous Wed Jan 1 23:22:09 2014 No.11766578

Who gives a fuck about "TRUTH"

the truth can be whatever the fuck you want/believe

this shit is protected by Knox's 9th

I could straight up say Beato is a shitty witch and i'd be 100% correct I don't have to red truth ,blue truth,gold truth or devil's proof that shit

also Beato is a shitty witch

people keep saying nonsense like "without love it can't be seen" the fuck it can't i'll will Knox 9th the garbage get that shit out of here

that level of reasoning is enough even for humans

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 1 23:52:01 2014 No.11766636 >>11766578 > the truth can be whatever the fuck you want/believe No, truth is objective and reality is objective. Only weak willed escapists think there is no such thing as objectivity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 01:34:45 2014 No.11766849 I never started 5-8 is it worth it or will my impression of it be ruined?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 03:24:09 2014 No.11767028 File: 85 KB, 221x246, umineko.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11758806

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 04:02:42 2014 No.11767071 >>11766528 And I'm talking about the manga scene in 8, which is not interrupted

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 04:36:12 2014 No.11767121

>>11759005
What is your point? I guess I could make a theory to explain Umineko without all of that. I could do it. But I won't, because indeed I don't want to lose time making bullshit theory without any solid proof from the VN.

Why would you try to sprout some bullshit theory from nothing? Wild theorizing is fun, so I guess we could have fun by doing just that, if it was understood beforehand that we're making false or very improbable theories. Trying to seriously replace the Shkanontrice theory is ridiculous, though, and only prove that you didn't really understand Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 05:35:42 2014 No.11767187 Everyone, including Beato and Battler, are shown to be torn apart violently, is resurrected whole, except Lambda, who has to be stitched back together. Plot hole?

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 05:42:27 2014 No.11767201
File: 1.41 MB, 3000x1695, 1388659331668.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11767187
Lambda was torn apart by Featherine. She wasn't merely reduced to piece. She was reality warped to be torn to piece, and more importantly, plot warped to not reappear in the VN until the epilogue. Anything less and she would have been able to continue to fight.

Then, it is highly possible that she could reattach herself, but didn't because she wanted to share a moment with Bern. Given the strange relationship between them, it's highly possible.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 06:29:33 2014 No.11767262 >>11767201 >>11767187 Lambda's gettin too old for this shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 07:57:54 2014 No.11767377 Lots of spoilers in this thread... I just started playing it, even though I downloaded it sometime in early 2012..

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 12:06:23 2014 No.11768008 >>11767071 Well, I think most would agree that the VN pre-empts the manga in terms of cannon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 12:16:53 2014 No.11768026 >>11768008 Except when the manga is written by r07 himself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 12:29:25 2014 No.11768058 >>11768008 You can't really say that when R07 is also writing the manga and is more recent

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 12:41:25 2014 No.11768088 >>11767377 don't bother it's pretty ass and from reading this thread it looks like they just said fuck it and deus ex machina'd it out the ass

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 13:44:28 2014 No.11768252 >>11768088 You clearly haven't read it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 13:49:43 2014 No.11768271 >>11768252 yeah i got to where the mean woman and her fat husband got killed and got bored

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 13:51:13 2014 No.11768278 So... Was magic real or what?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 13:52:58 2014 No.11768287 File: 107 KB, 1233x237, bern trolling.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 14:37:31 2014 No.11768421 >>11768278 Magic doesn't exist. Extradimensional beings that exist as personifications of concepts that arise from the speculations and stories of people do exist.

Disability-san Thu Jan 2 14:42:17 2014 No.11768437

>>11768421
Magic is real. Magic is darkness.
>Extradimensional beings that exist as personifications of concepts that arise from the speculations and stories of people do exist.
Cutting around the corners so you don't have to admit demons are real, thus averring the existence of God and so on. What a snake you are anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 14:48:17 2014 No.11768453 >>11768278 Of course.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 15:07:02 2014 No.11768489 >>11768437 >Cutting around the corners so you don't have to admit demons are real, thus averring the existence of God and so on. What a snake you are anon. Uh... what?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 15:10:17 2014 No.11768497 >>11758806 can you said it in RED?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 15:12:18 2014 No.11768502 >>11759324 There was a real person named Erika Furudo who vanished near Rokkenjima, She never made it to the island and probably wasn't anything like the Erika who appears in the stories

>>	Disability-san Thu Jan 2 15:33:05 2014 No.11768553 >>11768489 Maybe you're more dull and behind analysis of mass media than I thought. Seems you're but a pawn, not a snake.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 15:35:50 2014 No.11768562 >>11768553 No seriously what? I'm talking about the themes and ideas of the story, not any real world stuff.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 15:42:50 2014 No.11768584 >>11768562 Don't bother, he has real deal autism.

>>	Disability-san Thu Jan 2 16:00:05 2014 No.11768626 >>11768562 Okay. I liked the game in that case.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 16:28:53 2014 No.11768700 >>11768026 >>11768058 Doesn't matter. The VN is the source material, everything else is an adaptation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 16:36:08 2014 No.11768718 >>11768700 Denial powerlevel: ENDLESS NINE

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 16:45:09 2014 No.11768738 >>11768700 Except that the manga has explicitly said to contain extra "hints" (AKA: Beating the answer into your head)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 19:32:16 2014 No.11769227 My theory is better than your theory.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 19:37:46 2014 No.11769252 >>11769227 My truth is better then your theory.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 19:44:32 2014 No.11769288 >>11769252 My truth is truer than your truth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 19:50:32 2014 No.11769311 >>11769227 Yeah, we'll, my favorite Umineko could beat up your favorite Umineko.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:18:17 2014 No.11769388 >>11769288 But there's only one truth anon~

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:31:02 2014 No.11769447 >>11769388 Ryukishi's flawed understanding of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum field theory states otherwise. It also states that your a loveless goat for believing in "truth" in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:31:32 2014 No.11769444 >>11769388 All birds have wings < All birds have wings and feathers. Two truths, one truer than another.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:34:17 2014 No.11769462 >>11769447 Just because anything could happen doesn't mean that there isn't one thing that did happen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:36:17 2014 No.11769476 Is there any organized location where I can read theories such as "ShKanTrice"? I've been gleaning their meaning for these threads and the archives but if there's a place with it all written out that'd be great.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:37:02 2014 No.11769485 >>11769476 It's called Umineko No Naku Koro Ni.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:40:33 2014 No.11769498 >>11769485 Thanks, I'll check it out.

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:49:52 2014 No.11769523

Did anyone else make tier lists for the characters as they played? Here's mine.

ENDLESS S TIER: GEORGE, BATTLER
SSS TIER: WILL, KINZO, USHIROMIYA BEATRICE, LAMBDADELTA
SS TIER: GENJI, RONOVE, BEATRICE CALIOGLINI, AMAKUSA, LOLI ANGE
S TIER: DLANOR A. KNOX, AGNE, CHIESTER 45, KANON, JESSICA, ZEPAR, FURFUR
A TIER: NATSUHI, SHANNON, LION, GAAP, BERNARD, BEATRICE JR,
B TIER: HIDEYOSHI, KRAUSS, VIRGILIA, CORNELIA, GERTRUDE, TOYA, FEATHERINE, RUDOLF(ep7tp)
OK TIER: GOHDA, KUMASAWA, NANJO, MARIA, LAMBDADELTA, CHIESTER 410, CHEISTER 00, EVA
SHIT TIER: ROSA, SAKUTARO, SATAN, BELPHEGOR, LEVIATHON, MAMMON, ASMODEOUS, LUCIFER, BEEZLEBUB
FUCK I HATE YOU TIER: ERIKA, BERNKASTEL
CONFLICTED FEELINGS TIER: KYRIE

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 20:58:21 2014 No.11769551

>>11769476
Beato identity theories:
Shkanon - Shannon/Kanon did it with a rotating system of accomplices.
Rosatrice - Rosa and Jooji did it with a non-murdering Nanjo.
Mariatrice - See >>11762541 . Battler as a tupla is optional though.
Beatrice - Beatrice did it with magic.
Genjitrice - Genji will do ~anything~ to make his master happy.
Jessitrice - Kinzo sculpts his granddaughter into the perfect woman.
Angetrice - A six year old masterminded the whole thing.

Prime theories:
Evatrice - Eva slaughtered everyone for gold.
Kyrietrice - Kyrie goes on a killing spree on the advice of an insane crossdresser.
Gohdatrice - Gohda's idiocy dooms them all.
Yamainu - Okanogi did it with guns.
Black Battler - Small bombs followed by one really big bomb.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:07:23 2014 No.11769571 >>11769551 Gohda's idiocy? What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:08:23 2014 No.11769578 If Shannon and Kanon aren't the same person, why did they have the duels in episode 6? To put it simply, if you deny ShKanon, explain why only one of them could love.

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:08:23 2014 No.11769579

>>11769551
>Shkanon - Shannon/Kanon did it with a rotating system of accomplices.
>Rosatrice - Rosa and Jooji did it with a non-murdering Nanjo.
The accomplice system was what Bern was complaining about being so hard in her letter. If the people don't change every time, then the rules would be easily derived for her. Does KNM try to address this, or does he just ignore it like most inconvenient details?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:09:37 2014 No.11769585 >>11769571 Without love it cannot be seen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:13:37 2014 No.11769600 >>11769579 She didn't say it in red.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:22:22 2014 No.11769633 >>11769585 :(

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:24:22 2014 No.11769642 >>11768088 It sounds like everyone here likes it, and from where I am, I like it so far. I'm at the part where Kinzo refuses to eat lunch with the family. God, this game is going to be long.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:31:23 2014 No.11769671 >>11769642 You have no idea. Have you at least read Higurashi?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:33:08 2014 No.11769677 >>11766106 Takumi??

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:37:38 2014 No.11769684 >>11769642 By the way, the reason he doesn't want to come to lunch is because Gohda has nothing to do with it, it's just that Kinzo is dead and Krauss is hiding it.

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:43:23 2014 No.11769700

>>11769684
Speaking of Gohda, what's his deal? He's the one character than I can ascribe no important to. Kumasawa guided Yasu, Genji was Kinzo's friend, etc etc but really how is Gohda significant? Is he just there to die and be a mystery?

Spoilers: If Kanon and Shannon are the same person why are there 5 master keys instead of 4 in the second game?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:44:23 2014 No.11769703 >>11769579 The answer to the question "Did KnownNoMore ignore this part of the story?" is always without fail yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:46:08 2014 No.11769710 >>11769700 He did get to star in a TIP that basically points out "Kanon is the one playing witch pranks and Genji is covering for him."

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:48:38 2014 No.11769717 >>11769710 What do you mean by "TIP"? I finished the visual novel not two hours ago so I'm not well-versed in any additional material.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:51:53 2014 No.11769728 Would it be correct to say that Yasu killed everyone (in ep1/2 at least) because she was pissed off at Battler for forgetting the promise ?

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:54:23 2014 No.11769737

>>11769700
Rumor has it that Natsuhi was supposed to be sleeping with him, but Ryukishi changed his mind and made her "pure".

Also, Rosa needs to be paired with someone.

>>11769717
Don't worry about them for now. Unlike Higurashi TIPS, they're extra stuff that was released separate from the main game. You can either crawl around animesuki or the wikia for them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:56:38 2014 No.11769741 >>11769728 No, that would not be correct. Strictly speaking, she wanted to make Battler remember, kill herself, and impress Maria at the same time.

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:57:23 2014 No.11769743

>>11769717
TIPs are side stories written as the vns were released. Some are silly joke stories, but others can be considered canon that offer supplementary hints. The three main canon tips are "Notes from a Certain Cook", which is told from Gohda's pov and talks a bit on his lofe on Rokkenjima. "Memoirs of the Lambadelta" which tells Lambadelat's backstory, her relation to Higurashi, and how she met Beatrice. "Bernkatsel's letter" in which Bern tries to figure out Beatrice's rules.

Most of the TIPs were later collected in a Visual Novel release, Umineko no Naku Koro Ni Tsubasa.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 21:59:53 2014 No.11769751 >>11769743 >>11769737 That's interesting, thanks. I'll go ahead and read the Lambdadelta one, I had been assuming that she's the one that looped Rika in Higurashi but I'm sure that's wrong.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:01:23 2014 No.11769756 >>11769741 I see, yeah. Dunno how murder would make him remember, but I dig it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:02:23 2014 No.11769758 >>11769751 Not really, no. She gave Tanako her blessing that her efforts would succeed as long as she tried.

Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:15:26 2014 No.11769785

>>11769703
And oddly enough, he misses things that really support his theory, like the "medicinal tea" that Rosa brought and asked Kumasawa to serve in EP1&2.

Then he has to waste time explaining Maria's dream of killing Rosa with that bullshit explanation that it was actually Rosa letting Maria smash some of her shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:21:56 2014 No.11769803 >>11769785 He's just contrary for the sake of it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:25:26 2014 No.11769812 >>11769785 Is there something special about the medicinal tea? Poison?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:28:56 2014 No.11769825 >>11769812 Yeah if he wasn't a hack he could have argued Rosa brought poisoned tea. Of course, that still requires ignoring that Yasu could easily poison all their food, but KNM is a hack and never mentioned it in the first place

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:32:26 2014 No.11769838 At the end of Episode 2, what does... what happens in Kinzo's study that brings Battler to his knees? What does Yasu tell him? Does that event even occur? I would think so, because they reference it later, but Kinzo is shown, so I don't know.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:34:11 2014 No.11769845 >>11769838 Genji brings Battler to the study, Battle sees something... and the story switches to the third person as it switches to full on meta.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:37:26 2014 No.11769855 >>11769838 He gets shitfaced on Kinzo's liquor. Kinzo drinks absinthe. Absinthe is hallucinogenic. Genji takes him to "the Master" while he's tripping, then Piece-Battler walks in and sees Meta-Battler naked as furniture and the game board ends.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:42:11 2014 No.11769870 >>11769825 Actually, I think that it's a really good solution for the anime, which is where he originally arrived at his solution. He just shouldn't have tried to force it on the VN.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:46:41 2014 No.11769878 >>11769870 So his first multi hour sperg video was based off the anime? That explains so much

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:46:56 2014 No.11769880 >>11769845 I wanna know what that something is, man. >>11769855 Is such a thing even possible? Genji must have done that as per Yasu's request, why would she want Piece-Battler to see her mocking Meta-Battler?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:48:26 2014 No.11769886 Best song in the OST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J5LF2Udf20

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:50:58 2014 No.11769897 >>11769880 Once the clock chimes midnight, it's all fantasy. Like the butterflies in EP1. Yasu becomes Beato and can do what the fuck she likes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:51:43 2014 No.11769901 >>11769880 Ehh Yasu was dead at that point. I think he was just being poetic. Battler had resigned from the game, so he could be exposed to fantasy, though Beato was fair and didn't show it from his POV, rather third person

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 22:57:43 2014 No.11769922 >>11769897 Because the bomb explodes? >>11769901 How do you know that she was dead?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:00:58 2014 No.11769931 >>11769922 Battler sees her dead body with a hole in the head.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:08:28 2014 No.11769949 >>11769931 Yasu? I imagine he saw Shannon's corpse then? Holy shit! I just understood that Kanon got out of the closed room in Ep 6 because he didn't really exist, but how did Yasu get to Battler? How did he open the door?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:11:30 2014 No.11769957 >>11769949 Uhhh... he opened the door.Kanon "doesn't exist" in the sense that it's just a role an individual we call "Yasu" acted as.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:30:15 2014 No.11770020 Why didn't Battler just have Auaurora follow everyone around to find the culprit?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:31:45 2014 No.11770027 >>11770020 Because Tohya doesnt want his wife mucking around his first love's story.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:35:00 2014 No.11770039 >>11769523 I liked most of them. Except Eva. Fuck Eva, she's such a huge bitch.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:37:45 2014 No.11770050 >>11770020 Does the Rika-Hanyuu link still work for Bern-Featherine? Does Bern feel it when Ikuko and Toyha do lewd things? I like to think that that's why Bern keeps Lambda around....

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:38:00 2014 No.11770053 Umineko can only be good once the bullshit of Shkanontrice is dispelled. I will never accept a theory that involves personalities counting as people and "dying" without the body attached to them dying. (Yes, I've heard of Evatrice.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:40:00 2014 No.11770065 >>11770053 They're not personalities, they're roles and characters a person plays.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:40:15 2014 No.11770061 >>11770053 >(Yes, I've heard of Evatrice.) Fuck, I meant Rosatrice. I'm getting my 50-year-old women with terrible fashion sense mixed up.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:42:00 2014 No.11770067 >>11770039 >Fuck Eva, she's such a huge bitch. I know right? They have ONE loli and Eva strangles her just for the fuck of it. No one gives a shit about Rosa, god damn, don't kill Maria to cover up the murder of someone everyone wanted to die anyway.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:45:00 2014 No.11770075 >>11770067 No one will ever like Eva. Because she really doesn't deserve the thought.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:50:45 2014 No.11770091 >>11770067 To be fair, I imagine that Maria was just insufferable after Rosa got fence-stabbed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 2 23:52:45 2014 No.11770101 >>11770091 Maria is much more tolerable when we remember her mom pretty much gets sick of her and ditches her alot.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:00:32 2014 No.11770118

>>11770091
Why? Maria believes she'll see her in the Golden Land. She didn't care in the slightest in EP1. (It's also fun to consider that it was Meta-Maria who helped torment Rosa in the EP2 TP.)

>>11770101
I can't be the only one who kept expecting Rosa to shoot Maria in EP2. If nothing else, the girl probably has some brain damage if Rosa beats her that much at home.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:03:02 2014 No.11770125 >>11766849 Anyone?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:03:17 2014 No.11770121 >>11770118 There's a difference between "Beatrice using Mama to open the Golden Land" and "Aunt Eva just killed my mom."

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:06:32 2014 No.11770136

Sorcerer Battler

holy shit the fucker is so swag it hurts, gamemaster Battler is OP tier the way he made Erika/Bern shit herself was fucking GOAT

that little bitch Dlanor is growing on me too, such a good child the perfect daughter Knox would be proud...

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:06:32 2014 No.11770137 >>11770125 Yes it's worth it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:12:47 2014 No.11770151

>>11770101
She still not tolerable she fucking 9 years old why the hell does she act like that?

Ange who was only 6 by 1986 was more mature than that brat, I honestly can not stand Maria and usually cheer Rosa on when she beats the shit out of her, the villian isn't Rosa it's the faggot that left his pregnant wife with that retard to begin with

Rosa is the most likeable and reasonable Ushiromiya, she doesn't even give a shit about the head title she just wants the money to help her business, she even left Eva alone in Ep 3

how do pepole STILL hate Rosa is beyond me, fuck I felt more sympathy towards Rosa even after EP 4 was supposed to make you hate her and feel for Maria but all it does it show you how fucking stupid and disobidient she is towards her mother. So what she lied to the brat she still makes money and put a roof over her head she's not completely evil she could've easily aborted Maria or killed her.

I fucking straight up will not allow Rosa haters, she's a good woman she just needs a good man.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:14:32 2014 No.11770157 >>11770151 >She still not tolerable she fucking 9 years old why the hell does she act like that? Autism. This is not a joke. Maria is actually autistic.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:15:02 2014 No.11770161

>>11770118
Maria flipped out when Love Fighter Kanon killed Rosa. Also, Yasu went through great lengths to not kill anyone in front of Maria and preserve only fantasy. Except maybe EP4.

>>11770136
Are you fucking retarded? BATTLER is just as incompetent as Battler was. He's almost as horrible at solving mystery as Rika. Planned that logic error my ass. He shits all over the Beato he supposedly loves by giving us "Lord BATTLER's Wife", which is basically obedient furniture that only maintains the facade of independence when he wants her too, in her place.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:17:47 2014 No.11770165

>>11770039
muh inferiority
muh patriarchy
muh brother

holy shit bitch just deal with it damn, what the hell was so wrong with being 3rd in line? when Kruas kicked the bucket then she would've had what she wanted, Kraus only seemed "mean" to her because he was basically saying " Sorry sis that's how it is you can't have the head while i'm here" but Eva saw it as "LEL NOPE NOT FOR WOMEN" and got way too butthurt

what a greedy bitch, Kraus is always saying shit like "becuase it's the older brothers responsiblity" and cool shit while protecting his ENTIRE family while Eva was always trying to one up ANYONE in the family and forced that shit on her own son

Eva is the absolute worst character in Umineko

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:19:02 2014 No.11770173 >>11770161 How is that logic error resolved, anyway? I don't understand how Kanon/Yasu saved him and then escaped.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:21:02 2014 No.11770177

>>11770151
Kill yourself. Rosa is a bitch with a dried up cunt that no one wants and takes her anger out on her daughter. Maria didn't make her sleep with some idiot and go into debt. If you don't like Maria, then realize that children are a product of their environment, and tantrums are what you get when the lazy, bipolar, whore of a mother alternates wildly between beatings and apologies. She couldn't even take the time to actually make Sakutaro by hand! Rosa is burning in hell right now and she deserves it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:25:17 2014 No.11770187

>>11770165
Don't ignore Krauss's part in all that. He really was a bully at times, lording his position over Eva. Eva had every right to feel frustrated and angry over his treatment. That doesn't excuse her taking it all out on Natsuhi or shoving all her ambitions onto George, but hey, Umineko is all about showing the reasons people do bad things.

Though really the bulk of blame lies on Kinzo. He really is a horrible monster and there are very few horrible events in Umineko that he can't be pointed to as the cause

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:27:02 2014 No.11770193

>>11770165
You do not understand how the family headship passes.

>>11770173
Kanon left the room, ran to Battler's room and let him out, then locked the room, got in the closet, changed into Shannon's clothes, and stopped existing. Since Erika knew that Kanon left the room, she thought Kanon was in the closet and couldn't theorize that anyone else was in there with out proof. Since Erika didn't know about Shkanon, she couldn't refute the magical explanation.

Or that's my understanding of it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:27:32 2014 No.11770192

>>11770187
How is Kinzo at all a bad person? Sure, he was domineering towards his children, but that hardly makes him a monster. Keep in mind that the few times we see the real Kinzo, he's filled with regret and is a genuinely nice guy.

p.s. what the fuck happened in ep4? Why did everyone think Kinzo was committing the murders?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:29:32 2014 No.11770197 >>11770193 That makes a lot of sense! Man that's messed up. How did Kanon leave the guest room though?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:31:32 2014 No.11770202 >>11770192 He killed his fellow soldiers and friendly soldiers for gold, kidnapped Bice, raped his daughter, left a huge fucking bomb under the house his children lived in, and then didn't even have the decency to die like a man and admit to all that.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:32:47 2014 No.11770208

>>11770173
Erika thought Kanon was in the cousin's room. George, Shannon, Dr. Nanjo, Hideyoshi, a Kumasawa were in the "next room over" while everyone not a First Twilight victim was in the cousin's room.

Erika didn't get that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, so Shannon started acting out the role of Kanon, a left. This broke the seals but the seals for "next room over" were never said to be unbroken. Once Kanon saved Battler, he started acting as a different role, so Kanon stopped existing in the guest room

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:36:47 2014 No.11770225 Moral of Umineko: If you ever meet a man without a penis, kill it before it kills you.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:37:47 2014 No.11770233

>>11770202
You mean, he killed the officer preparing to kill an innocent Italian maiden. Beatrice wanted to be kidnapped, how can you make that sound bad? The bomb thing never hurt anybody. The only bad thing in that list was raping his daughter, which is terrible, and he recognized it as such and spent his ENTIRE remaining life regretting it. You're calling him a monster because he fucked up once and spent a lifetime atoning for it?
>>11770208
Why is it that the "next room over" seals were never said to be unbroken? Seems like it'd be important for Dlanor/Erika to mention that. I remember it being a small thing at the wedding that few people cared about.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:43:47 2014 No.11770260

>>11770233
>You mean, he killed the officer preparing to kill an innocent Italian maiden. Beatrice wanted to be kidnapped, how can you make that sound bad?
Why are you believing crap told under theater going authority by a guy philosophically opposed to tearing out the guts? That entire story is heavily altered to make Kinzo look good. It pretty much says that it's bullshit and confirms that he actively murdered them in the tea party, when Bern is trying to break Lion by showing him what his beloved Grandfather really did to his mother and grandmother. Don't just read for the flower parts you dumb goat.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:44:17 2014 No.11770264 >>11770233 Did ypu read the EP7 Tea Party? Killing the Italian soldiers was his idea, and he likely set up a dud grenade to start the massacre. >Why is it that the "next room over" seals were never said to be unbroken? Because the seals were broken.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 00:48:47 2014 No.11770281 >>11770260 >>11770264 I'll have to re-read the tea party then, because I don't recall any of that.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 01:04:06 2014 No.11770328

>>11770281
>>11770264
>>11770260
All right, so I skipped ahead and saw the scenes you guys mentioned. It was a brief, red tinted scene with one line: "Steal the Italian's gold you say? You coward, Ushiromiya! And you call yourself a soldier of the Empire?!!"? I originally dismissed this scene because it contradicted facts that we already knew- a) that the Sergeant wanted to extort the Italian's gold anyway and b) that the Sergeant casually and gleefully gunned down Italians. Why would he be shocked/outraged at the idea of stealing gold, and then enthusiastically take part? my guess is that Bern was just lying.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:15:24 2014 No.11770514

>>11770328
You're forgetting the context of that scene. It was one of a couple of horrid truths thst Yasu didn't want known. Bern had to literally rip them out of Yasu's corpse to reveal them.

Also it's not like it wasn't foreshadowed.

To gain two, sacrifice one:

A)Kinzo's life
B)Beatrice's life
C)Everyone else's lives.

Kinzo obviously chose C.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:41:39 2014 No.11770573 >>11770514 I see. I have a problem about glazing over magical metaphors- I didn't interpret Bern ripping out Claire's guts as her literally opening up the tale, even though it directly said that in the text. Ah, I guess I'm just a bad Reader.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:52:24 2014 No.11770593 In the first game, how did Kanon walk around if Shannon was dead? Fake corpse?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:55:55 2014 No.11770595 >>11770593 There were only five bodies in the shed. Kanon and Hideyoshi lied, Battler never saw Shannon's bpdy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:56:24 2014 No.11770597 >>11770514 A and B were the only ones that deserved to live

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 02:58:39 2014 No.11770600 >>11770595 Why would Hideyoshi lie? Did Kanon force him to? For that matter, how did game one's second twilight work? I've been mulling over it for weeks but I don't get it.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:00:54 2014 No.11770607

>>11770600
Yes. In Episode 1 Eva and Hideyoshi are recruited as accomplices. Eva thinks it's all fake, the second twilight then works pretty simple once you realize this. Eva and Hideyoshi let Kanon in because he's paying them a whole lot of money, and Kanon kills them. He then lies about the chain being set

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:01:24 2014 No.11770608 So does>magic[/spoiler] [spoiler] [spoiler] [/spoiler] exist

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:02:09 2014 No.11770615 >>11770607 Man, I'm just gonna have to assume that everyone's lying all the time, aren't I?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:04:39 2014 No.11770618 >>11770615 A very good percentage of Umineko's riddles are pretty handily solved by "they lied"

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:11:09 2014 No.11770631

>>11770618
That's pretty disappointing. Oh well! I was going to try and solve the puzzles without re-reading but I guess I have to now. Ep4 is gonna be a doozy since 90% of it is fake magic. I'm guessing that Krauss and Natsuhi were the accomplices then? I have no idea. Kyrie saying magic is real just baffles me. Plus, everyone pretending that Kinzo is alive.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:18:54 2014 No.11770652

>>11770631
Ehhh there's still a tone of value in rereading it. Figuring out the full extent of the whydunnit can't really be done without rereading with the whodunnit involved.

And actually it's far more likely that Kyrie and Rudolf were "recruited" in 4. And, well, everything goes horribly, horribly wrong in 4.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:19:54 2014 No.11770655 File: 139 KB, 1230x890, 1388722019811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] EVERYONE LAUGHED AT MY MOON TOURISM I SURE SHOWED THEM

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:21:24 2014 No.11770659 >>11770655 Is this new space adventure a When they Cry gams?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:22:24 2014 No.11770661 >>11770652 That's what I thought, especially since both it and ep7's tea party involved a "test" for the next head. I don't get why Gohda would say Kinzo did it in that scenario, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:24:28 2014 No.11770669 File: 101 KB, 200x470, Krauss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11770661 It better be I put 2.7 million into it

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:26:44 2014 No.11770681 File: 101 KB, 200x470, Krauss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11770659 It better be, I put 2.7 million into it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:26:58 2014 No.11770682 >>11770631 Kyrie's role in 4 always made me think she was the culprit. Ep 4 with kyrie as culprit works perfectly, Ep 1 as well. It was 2 and 3 I could never quite get to fit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:28:58 2014 No.11770687 >>11770682 She doesn't have to be the culprit every time. Plus, she's a first twilight victim in ep1, right?

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:29:43 2014 No.11770691

>>11770631
> I'm guessing that Krauss and Natsuhi were the accomplices then
Wrong. I'll tell you in the spoiler, so don't look if you actually want a challenge:
EP1 - Hideyoshi and Eva, thought it was fake. Eliminated early because Eva was dropping to many hints to Battler and fucking with Natsuhi too much. Notice their discussion of vacation plans while Eva left George alone.

EP2 - Rosa and Gohda. Rosa pretty obviously knows that it's murder, which she likes, and was probably in the chapel. Hard to tell what Gohda knows or why he was cooperating, but he did let Kanon chase Jessica, yet still trusted Shannon enough to leave with her when he decided that Genji was unsafe.

EP3 - Natsuhi and Krauss. They did it because Jessica was threatened. This is outlined in the TIP "Why are closed rooms so beautiful."

EP4 - Kyrie and Rudolf. They want money and don't give a fuck about anyone else. And that went downhill fast! Kyrie needed something from Yasu (probably the PIN), and thus faked all the magic crap.

EP5 - Everyone thinks its a game to get revenge on Natsuhi. This explains Eva's extreme lucidity despite her family being killed. Battler may have different motivations.

EP6 - Everyone is fucking with Erika, who derails it pretty quickly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:30:43 2014 No.11770694 >>11770682 Kyrie is pretty clearly dead in 1. 4 actually does work with Kyrie hijacking much of the game, with Yasu wresting control back in the end before killing herself in dispair once she realizes Battler is dumb.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:34:13 2014 No.11770704 Kyrie did it with magic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:35:13 2014 No.11770708 >>11770691 This is exactly what I wanted! Are these just your personal theories? In any case, I've got to reread it now.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:37:28 2014 No.11770712

>>11770687

Well no matter which theory is looked at, its conclusive from the sequence of events in Ep 1 that the killer was one of the first 6 victims.

>>11770694

If shannon's corpse missing half a face could be faked, I don't really see how Kyrie or Rosa couldn't simply dress Shannon up in their own clothes and remain at the back. Nanjo of course being an accomplice no matter what. I'll need to re-read ep 4 though, I can't remember if Beatrice talks to Battler before or after he discovers Kyrie's corpse. If it's before, she's actually the most logical culprit. Phone calls all make sense.

For what it's worth, I still accept the whole shkanontrice thing is the actual canon explanation for it all, it's just fun looking at other ideas.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:40:14 2014 No.11770719 >>11770712 Shannon's "corpse" was faked by never being there in the first place. Battler never sees it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:43:43 2014 No.11770726 >>11759415 Why is the 2nd worst VN artist releasing an artbook?

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:44:58 2014 No.11770731

>>11770708
The general consensus is that that is what the accomplices were. Of course, my theory is that magic was done by Beatrice to cause the events that such alliances would have set in motion in a mystery interpretation.

Anyway, there is also always Genji and Kumasawa as constants, as well as Nanjo who is a filthy opportunist that alternates between Krauss's cover up operation and the murders. It's kinda sad to see him try to bumble around a magic explanation for him shutting the window George escaped from in EP3. Even Piece-Battler blew it off.

What Battler was doing in EP5, I'm not sure about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:48:58 2014 No.11770741 >>11770712 Kyrie was killed in the mansion while making a phone call, and he didn't gain access until he talked to Beato and got the key from the chapel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:54:14 2014 No.11770750 http://strawpoll.me/959756

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 03:54:28 2014 No.11770751

>>11770719

Oh yeah. Well, with Kyrie's supposed corpse having its face destroyed, and Beatrice herself stating that a corpse without a face is not proof of a death, she fits pretty nicely as the killer for episode 1.

>>11770741

Kyrie fakes her death over the phone (very easy to do), dresses up as Beatrice, then removes the disguise and shoots herself in the head by the phone where she's found.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 04:37:02 2014 No.11770831 >>11759442 >>11759350 The Battler/Rika/Lambda/Sakutarou expies from Higanbana or RGD were specifically said to be, well, expies. Think of them as actors playing other roles. These roles and the universes are not related.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 07:51:56 2014 No.11771138 >>11766528 >Didn't you see how it was written in the VN? It ended with a dash. This is actually only true in Witch Hunt's translation, in the original the sentence had no dash, only lacked an end punctuation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 08:05:57 2014 No.11771182 >>11759252 batladder

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 08:06:42 2014 No.11771183 >>11770655 Wow tell me more about this

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 09:16:12 2014 No.11771384

>>11770691
>EP3 - Natsuhi and Krauss. They did it because Jessica was threatened. This is outlined in the TIP "Why are closed rooms so beautiful."

This?: http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/Why_Are_Closed_Room_Murders_So_Beautiful%3F.. I'm not seeing what there relates to Natsuhi and Krauss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 09:36:03 2014 No.11771457 File: 145 KB, 1230x890, 534543.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] so now instead of bullet ones we have plasma guns

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 13:21:43 2014 No.11771935 >>11770751 It was said in Red that all "unidentified corpses", meaning the ones with the faces smashed, are guaranteed to be who Battler thought they were. Furthermore it was also said for Episode 1 that no body doubles exist in Res.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 15:50:21 2014 No.11772310 File: 346 KB, 656x518, oAGjZ[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11770719

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 15:51:21 2014 No.11772313 >>11772310 Uh, I forgot the text. Doesn't this image clearly show Shannon's corpse? Or are we supposed to assume the image isn't real?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:05:51 2014 No.11772345 File: 86 KB, 1240x336, 1377632955327.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11769571

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:08:06 2014 No.11772349 >>11772313 Battler never confirms that as Shannon's body. He never sees Shannon's corpse

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:10:39 2014 No.11772355 >>11772313 We can't even see her face. It might as well be someone else with her clothes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:22:39 2014 No.11772392 File: 378 KB, 656x518, Dxoxv[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11772349 >>11772355 Are we to assume that because Battler didn't see it, this scene is fake too, despite Genji and Kanon being there?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:24:11 2014 No.11772399 >>11772392 (Genji and Kanon trying to open Eva and Hideyoshi's room, second twilight)

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:26:40 2014 No.11772410 >>11772392 Basically, Kanon and Genji lied. The door was never locked to begin with.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:26:54 2014 No.11772413

>>11772392
Well of course that scene is fake, ShKanon's the fucking killer. At the very least Kanon was lying, and Genji probably was too.
There are two possibilities:
1) The door really was locked. When Genji left, Kanon broke the lock and killed them.
2) Kanon killed them first, then broke the chain, which implicates Genji as an accomplice because there's no way he couldn't know.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:28:09 2014 No.11772423 >>11772410 >>11772413 Man. I really like these mysteries, but if it all comes down to everybody, even the narrator, lying, I don't see the fun in it. Oh well. Thanks for the tips.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:31:09 2014 No.11772428

>>11772423
Everything written from piece Battler's perspective is the truth - the detective cannot lie, but keep in mind that he can be mistaken.
Everything else is either a character recounting something (which may be a lie) or a metaphor of some kind. No scene is completely false, there is always some truth in them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:35:09 2014 No.11772446 >>11772423 There are hints, even within the first episode, that the narration is false. Kanon gets stabbed by magic, flying stakes if we're to believe the narrator, so the only conclusion to be drawn from that is that the narrator is unreliable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:37:09 2014 No.11772450 >>11772428 How do we know that piece Battler is the detective? He doesn't act like Erika at all.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:41:54 2014 No.11772462

>>11772450
We have no reason NOT to believe that piece Battler is the detective in episodes 1-4. If we cannot trust Battler's perspective, then there is nothing that we CAN trust, making it completely unsolvable.
A character doesn't have to be outright named as the detective to be the detective in a mystery novel.
Unless you somehow have a better suggestion as to who the detective in these episodes might be?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:45:24 2014 No.11772473 >>11772450 >>11772462 Dlanor in EP5 also states that Battler was the detective until then.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:45:54 2014 No.11772476 File: 39 KB, 251x251, cutebeatrice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Beatrice is cute!

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:49:25 2014 No.11772486 File: 19 KB, 163x162, 13838791059.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11772476

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:50:10 2014 No.11772491 File: 80 KB, 371x350, 1376785146988.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11772476 Erika is cuter

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 16:54:55 2014 No.11772498 >>11772491 Poor Erika. She's the only one who didn't know the truth by EP6. How very, very sad.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:00:10 2014 No.11772518
File: 188 KB, 800x800, 1388786401381.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11772498
Wait, did Bern already know by then?
If so, what was she actually trying to accomplish by making Erika challenge Battler? If she knew the truth, then she must have known that Erika was losing the whole time.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:00:25 2014 No.11772522 >>11772491 Best Umineko, wud fug hard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:01:25 2014 No.11772524 File: 446 KB, 598x564, 1375730585466.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11772522 Well you can't have her, because she's mine

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:02:10 2014 No.11772533 >>11772522 Erika looked really bloated to me, I don't know why everyone adores her.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:04:40 2014 No.11772542 >>11772518 She abandoned Erika as soon as Beato showed up. She also knew enough to construct the EP7 kakera.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:07:10 2014 No.11772565

>>11772518
>actually trying to accomplish by making Erika challenge Battler?
She doesn't care about Erika. The character sheet says that she was doomed either way.

>If she knew the truth, then she must have known that Erika was losing the whole time.
Bern knows how bad logic errors are and didn't expect him to solve it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:07:55 2014 No.11772560 >>11772542 She couldn't have known the truth at the start of EP 6 then, or what was the point in any of it? She must have figured it out from Battler's meta narrative in game 6.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:08:25 2014 No.11772567 >>11772542 Of course, in EP7 she said she just made the setting and then had Will do all the work of solving it too.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:10:55 2014 No.11772577

>>11772565
>Bern knows how bad logic errors are and didn't expect him to solve it.
If Bern knew the truth the whole time, she must have realised that Battler knew it too and that he never was in a logic error to begin with.
Either that, or she's a tremendous fool and somehow forgot about the part where Battler only became Game Master BECAUSE he knew the truth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:11:10 2014 No.11772580 >>11772560 >what was the point in any of it? Bern loathes Beato and Battler. Same reason why she fucked up EP8. And she had to entertain Featherine.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:12:55 2014 No.11772591 >>11772580 But she played right into Battler's hands in EP6. If she knew the truth before hand, how could she be that stupid?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:15:11 2014 No.11772601 >>11772542 >>11772565 >>11772580 You're giving Bern too much credit here. It took Rika 100 years that the local murder squad was the ones killing her.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:20:10 2014 No.11772629

>>11772601
>Bernkastel takes 100 years to solve her single murder
>Battler manages to figure out the killer and murder methods to 5 different serial killings in approximately 10 days
Bern is way outclassed here. It's no wonder she and Erika got played like a fiddle in Battler's game

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:23:10 2014 No.11772640 >>11772524 I hope she crush your balls with a pair of pliers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:24:40 2014 No.11772645 File: 426 KB, 729x803, 1388787870820.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11772640 Nah, she wants to be dominated really. Tied up with duct tape and chopsticks in every hole.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:28:10 2014 No.11772661 >>11772645 I want her to force a chopstick up my urethra

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:28:40 2014 No.11772662

>>11772629
To be fair, Battler was supported by Beato in almost every way possible. Rika had no meta privileges, no Red Truth, and most of the time she had to deal with problems in her own circle of friends and had to prevent them from killing each other to progress.

Not to mention how fucking worthless Hanyuu was. I can definitely see how Ryu had planned to have Hanyuu be working against her in the beginning.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:55:26 2014 No.11772747

Now that I've finished Umineko, what mystery novels should I read? I was considering getting the full collected works of Agatha Christie, but I feel that's pretty entry level. Any recommendations? Unfortunately, I don't know enough Japanese to read non-translated works.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:56:55 2014 No.11772751 >>11772747 Kara no Shoujo, 999, Corpse Party.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:58:10 2014 No.11772763 >>11772747 If by entry level, you mean much better written, you'd be right. Umineko is fun, but R07's mystery stuff is real messy. Plus he took a LOT of inspiration from Christie.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 17:58:40 2014 No.11772759 >>11772751 I've read 999 and Corpse Party. I was thinking about more orthodox mysteries, not visual novels, but I've heard a lot about Kara no Shoujo so why not.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:02:43 2014 No.11772777

>>11772763
Everyone's read Agatha Christie, is what I mean to say. I'd like to expand into "lesser known" areas, though that's not to say Christie isn't excellent. I've read " And Then There Were None " and enjoyed it immensely (though that was in 7th grade).

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:05:43 2014 No.11772787 >>11772777 Books aren't like that. You're unlikely to find a hidden gem that everyone else missed. If it's obscure after 50 years, that's because it's crap.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:06:58 2014 No.11772793

>>11772777
There's still no reason not to read some Christie if you want good murder mysteries. She's not the best selling novelist of all time for nothing, you know.
It's not like all her works are all that orthodox or conventional either, if that's what you're worried about. And Then There Were None has practically no real, physical clues for example and The ABC Murders uses a near perfect serial killing as a concept.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:07:13 2014 No.11772797 >>11772787 Obscure in the sense that everybody doesn't know it. Like how everyone knows Agatha Christie but not Umineko, though both are great. I'm not trying to be a Hipster, just trying to include both the greats and the lesser-known people.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:09:14 2014 No.11772804 >>11772793 I'm intending to read Christie, but I'd like some other recommendations too.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:12:13 2014 No.11772818

>>11772797
The only reason Umineko is obscure though is because it's a) Japanese and b) a visual novel.
The likelihood of finding a good murder mystery novel in book form that isn't well known is pretty darn low and the vast majority of VNs aren't even the right genre, let alone do it well. Trust me, I've been looking for some good stuff like that myself, but it's basically non-existent.
As far as manga goes, I've only ever heard of Detective Conan, though I've never read it so I can't tell you if it's any good or not.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:14:28 2014 No.11772828 >>11772818 I'm sure its on the same level of Encyclopedia Brown and Scooby Doo.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:15:43 2014 No.11772833 I've just discovered that there's an anime called "Agatha Christie's Great Detectives Poirot and Marple" It's probably terrible, but I can assure you it's also obscure

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:18:13 2014 No.11772846 >>11772747 Nancy Drew seems to be pretty good. Or at least it did when I was in 3rd grade. >>11772833 If you want anime, there's Heaven's Memopad and Gosick, which both include loli detectives.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:20:01 2014 No.11772860

>>11772846
I saw the first episode of Gosick, but it looked more like it would be an anime about Ms loli detective pulling deductions out of her ass instead of a show with crimes that the viewer can actually solve from the clues before the reveal. Does it get better? And is Heaven's Memopad the same?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:20:43 2014 No.11772858 Would this be a good purchase? Does Hercules only star in short stories? http://www.amazon.com/Hercule-Poirot-Complete-Collection-Mysteries/dp/0062251678/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388791195&sr=1-1&keywords=agatha+christie+collection

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:21:14 2014 No.11772866 >>11772858 No, there are a large number of full novels with Poirot as the detective. I've never read the short stories so I can't really comment on them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:23:59 2014 No.11772877 >>11772866 Damn, this is the only reliable collection I can find. There seem to be no collections or box sets anywhere! It's really annoying.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:24:14 2014 No.11772879 >>11772860 >Does it get better? No, that's basically it. >And is Heaven's Memopad the same? No, she's a hikki loli hacker who pulls deductions out of her computer networks and has a team of NEETs do all the real work.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:53:14 2014 No.11772983 What is "seacats"?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 18:59:59 2014 No.11773010 File: 211 KB, 632x897, 1383337827932[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Did Yasu actually do this?

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:06:29 2014 No.11773052

>>11773010
Come on, that should be easy! Not even the so-called witnesses described anything like that. Even Gohda only said "I saw Kanon but he wasn't who I thought he was!". Shannon talked about the spider web, and Genji didn't say anything.

Maybe he showed off his dickless crotch and the wound was a metaphor, but more likely Yasu told Nanjo and Kumasawa to make themselves scarce, and the others to makes some shit up.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:09:29 2014 No.11773072 Dang it. I still can't comprehend unreliable narrators. I keep thinking everything I see is true.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:13:59 2014 No.11773101 >>11773072 Dumbass. Have you even read episode 3?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:23:02 2014 No.11773157 What would Yasu have done if Battler started flirting with Kanon when he returned to the island?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:34:47 2014 No.11773205 >>11773072 >>11773052

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:43:17 2014 No.11773253 >>11773072 Unreliable narrators in narratives are hardly uncommon. If piece Battler didn't witness it, do not take it at face value.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:45:47 2014 No.11773267 >>11773253 I know, I just suck at them. When tackling the mysteries I sort the "facts" in my head (The chain was locked, Eva and Hideyoshi were dead inside), but I never considered that the non-Magic portions were false.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 19:54:46 2014 No.11773310

>>11773267
Well some of them clearly HAVE to be false, or the murder is quite simply impossible.
Consider the Eva/Hideyoshi murder, for example.
What we know is that they are both dead, they could not have killed each other or committed suicide, the windows are shut tight and cannot be locked from the outside, there are no secret passages or places to hide and the door cannot be unchained from the outside without breaking it.
Kanon claims they were already dead when he entered the room and by his own admission, he was the one who broke the lock.
Clearly, there is a contradiction here, since it is impossible for them to be dead if no one else entered or left the room. Therefore, the only remaining possibility is that Kanon is a dirty liar.
You'll get the hang of it eventually.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 20:01:01 2014 No.11773364 >>11773310 Yeah, I guess I'm in the 70% of readers that don't think, because that kind of logic goes way over my head while I'm reading. Hearing others thoughts is very euphoric for me though, so I appreciate your explanation! It makes sense now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 20:28:49 2014 No.11773475 What happens if Agne picks "it was a trick" in Ep8? Is it a significantly different ending? It didn't let me save before I chose and I didn't save before that for awhile.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 20:37:04 2014 No.11773503

>>11773310
Kanon broke the lock, then Shannon killed them. He's not a liar at all.

>>11773475
Completely different, actually. Don't you have to view them both to see the tea parties and actually finish? And didn't you think to just mash control until the end?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:03:22 2014 No.11773569 File: 16 KB, 448x336, ClosedRoomEP3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How did the EP3 first twilight work?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:10:22 2014 No.11773589 >>11773569 Rosa and George killed them all and had Nanjo slip the key needed to complete the chain on the appropriate body. Of course, George only drugged Shannon, because he couldn't let her die.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:20:39 2014 No.11773619

>>11773569

Think for a moment how the loop was set up.

All the rooms the bodies were in were rather inconvenient to break into without a key...except for the parlor, which had large windows at ground level.

Shannon was found in the parlor. Yasu faked her death as Shannon, locking herself in there. Since the parlor was the easiest room to break into, she gambled that was were people wpuld go first. Once they found her, took the keys and left, Yasu ran over to the Chapel, dressed up as Kanon and faked his death there for the adults to find

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:22:39 2014 No.11773627 >>11773589 >2014 >Still arguing for Rosatrice >Still suggesting fake death drugs

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:40:54 2014 No.11773682 >>11773503 I saw the tea parties and the ???. I assumed trick would just end the game early. I didn't want to skip through 2hrs~ of action.

Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:45:12 2014 No.11773702

>>11773569
Gohda made a special meal for the servants and poisoned them. He gave each of them the keys to make the chain, as well as keys to the rooms they were sent too. They keys they used to lock their rooms were made of ice. All the servants except Gohda died and their ice keys melted, which formed the chain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:48:27 2014 No.11773712 >>11773569 At no point was it guaranteed that every door was locked. Really, it had some easy outs.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 3 21:54:57 2014 No.11773727 >>11773712 Yes it was. In Episode 4. "In short, all keys related to the linked closed rooms were locked inside the linked closed rooms!!"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 00:59:53 2014 No.11774169 >>11772747 You owe it to yourself to read some of John Dickson Carr's work. The Crooked Hinge and The Hollow Man are considered two of the best locked room mysteries ever written, and I'd also throw in The Burning Court for good measure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 01:24:54 2014 No.11774205 >>11772747 You should read some realy mystery novels. "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie is insanely good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 01:53:09 2014 No.11774261 >>11770681 manlet

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 02:10:24 2014 No.11774325 >>11774169 Mmm, can't wait for some closed rooms. I hope the answers aren't just "they lied". >>11774205 I've read that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 06:37:12 2014 No.11774846 File: 50 KB, 617x176, ss (2014-01-04 at 08.34.44).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The more I reread this the more foreshadowing I notice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 06:39:57 2014 No.11774854 >>11773310 The locked rooms are absolutely locked rooms. But that doesnt mean they were dead while they were locked rooms.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 07:57:13 2014 No.11775026 >>11770233 I was under the impression he raped bice too, what with the intro to ep3 and all. Didnt she kill herself? And then kinzo raped the kid when she was of age.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 08:04:27 2014 No.11775031 >>11772310 Reread that scene. it went from first person to the passive point of view. Battler confirmed every death except shanons.

Anonymous Sat Jan 4 12:28:31 2014 No.11775705

I just realized that the first episode makes the fact that Kanon is the culprit exceedingly clear. Before you say "ShKanon", I know, I agree, but in the first episode you assume Shannon is dead at the start and there is no compelling evidence that they are the same person at that point in time. So, proceeding with Kanon is the Culprit...

1) Only a servant would know which key opens the gate house. It's made very clear that no one else would be able to tell, though it is possible that Krauss/Natsuhi would recognize it.
2) Krauss, Genji, Kumasawa, Kanon and "Shannon" are all dead by the final twilight.
3) Krauss unambiguously dies in the first twilight.
3) However, Maria reveals that Beato told her to turn around before she killed Genji and Kumasawa. Therefore, they cannot be the culprit.
4) Natsuhi is shot by the culprit (we are shown beato shooting her).
5) This leaves Kanon and Shannon. We can assume one of them faked their deaths, as it is impossible for the others to have done so. Therefore, it can be assumed that one of them is the culprit even without using any of the future episode clues.

See, just by the existence of a tool shed key, this level of reasoning is possible by Anon Ymous. Are you impressed, everyone?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 12:30:32 2014 No.11775708 >>11775705 I forgot Gohda. He unambiguously dies with cross so he's out of the running too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 4 17:00:11 2014 No.11776214 >>11775705 It's really funny how obvious it is if you just look at the bare facts. Did anybody ever suggest Kanon was the culprit in 1 before 6 made it obvious?

Anonymous Sun Jan 5 23:46:15 2014 No.11779473

>>11773569
I just reread Ep 2 again and something strikes me as odd.

It's mentioned that Shannon was the first person to be found and Kanon was the last person to be found.
Each room was connected to the subsequent room.
So Shannon > A > B > C > D > Kanon > Shannon.

But here's the problem. If room D holds the single key for Kanon's room, how was Yasu able to dress up as Kanon again and get in that room?
The only key to get in that room resides in room D which is held by room C which is held by B, etc.

So even if Shannon was faking her death, it would be completely impossible for the family, who was all group together looking for the bodies, to find Kanon in the room.

The room is completely locked, no one can get in.
Kanon was specifically the last room to get in and the room was not open prior due to the whole family staying together to find the bodies.

So how did Shannon get to Kanon's deathroom without being able to open the door or have the key for that room?

Anonymous Mon Jan 6 00:47:18 2014 No.11779660

>>11779473
Kanon was in the chapel, right? Hrm. I know she went to his room, due to the logic of it being the last room and farthest away, but that's a difficult problem to reconcile. Who was in room D? Consider that Shannon could have signaled to room D to unlock the chapel, let her in, and then lock it again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 01:04:17 2014 No.11779709 >>11779473 I poked around the Foolz archive and most people have concluded that the chapel was never locked. (Ep2 had Rosa has the conspirator).

Anonymous Mon Jan 6 01:23:18 2014 No.11779758

>>11779709
Yeah, the chapel wasn't locked. Since it was away from the mansion where the other five rooms were, there was basically no chance that anyone would even realize the chapel was relevant until they found the letter in room D, so Yasu didn't have to worry about someone finding it open and calling shenanigans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 09:42:34 2014 No.11780804 I'm still halfway through EP3 but does each EP has a different murder(s) ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 10:25:06 2014 No.11780852 >>11780804 Sort of, though it starts to lose its regular format from 5 onwards. Also, get far away from this thread, there are unmarked spoilers everywhere

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 10:52:07 2014 No.11780909 >>11780852 Okay , thanks. I didn't read much of it .It's just that question bothered me for a while and i couldn't wait until i finish more EPs to find out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 17:57:17 2014 No.11781714 >>11779473 >>11779709 EP3 had the loop, EP2 had the Halloween party in the chapel. Rosa was not the conspirator in EP3.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 6 23:20:04 2014 No.11782794 >>11779473 Damn it, I was talking about Ep3, not Ep 2.

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