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/jp/ - Otaku Culture


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11631341 No.11631341 [Reply] [Original]

Is Hatsune Miku popular with young girls in japan?

I have a female japanese student coming to study english in the US who is 14 and claims to be into anime & vocaloid. I thought hatsune miku was mostly marketed to the otaku crowed, so I'm a little confused.

>> No.11631348

If by young girls you mean creepy adult men who wish to be young girls, then yes.

>> No.11631359

Why are you hanging out with 14 year old Japanese girls?

>> No.11631443

>>11631359
>>11631348
Valid points, but I'm guessing no one here knows the answer to my question then.

>> No.11631451

If she's into anime and vocaloid, Hatsune Miku would be pretty generic for her.

Also please answer >>11631359

>> No.11631457

It's probably just an exchange program. No need to make a sex adventure out of everything, geez.

>> No.11631479
File: 22 KB, 640x360, 1384759537120.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11631479

>>11631348
>creepy adult men who wish to be young girls
I'm not so creepy..

>> No.11631481

they may or may not have done karaoke with vocaloid songs. thats probably the extent of it

>> No.11631482

>>11631443
It is mostly marketed to otaku, but teenagers typically try things out to establish an identity, so it's not unheard of. Miku is fairly mainstream too, so the concept of a virtual idol/singer might just be attractive to her.

>> No.11631483

>>11631451
>>11631457
He's right. In fact I work at one, and I'm trying to figure out if this girl is nerdy because I'm considering placing her with a nerdy american girl, but I'm not sure if vocaloid is some sort of odd hit for some reason and has become mainstream with younger girls, or if she's a female otaku or something. She looks like a tomboy, but not "It's Not My Fault That I'm Not Popular" bad or anything. I'm sort of confused...

>> No.11631484

>>11631341
Yes. Most of the people making those comments in vocaloid videos are obviously teenagers.

>> No.11631489

>>11631484
I assumo you're talking about niko and youtube and the like. Thanks, that would make sense. So at least it appeals to that age group, wether it's socially acceptable is still questionable though.

>> No.11631498

>>11631489
http://gdgdtrip.com/vocaloid/5736

>> No.11631502

>>11631483
pls post pics

>> No.11631532

>marketed mostly to the otaku crowd

Not anymore. I think originally it was marketed towards indie artists related to the doujin scene, which is somewhat related to otaku, but over the years, it's just become more and more mainstream with more notable artists using it or crediting it.

There's literally vocaloid merchandise everywhere, from 100 Yen stores to billboards, to the trains, to magazines. It's on par with Meruru or One Piece, really, although I don't think too many people care very much about the actual music as much as they do about the characters themselves.

>> No.11631536

If your guest is anything like most junior high school girls, she probably knows what it is, but aside from NND videos, does not have an invested interest in it, unless she's some sort of loser. Take her to H&M or Wet Seal and buy her some clothes.

I don't know why you're so eager to attach the word 'otaku' to her. I'm sure she would be offended if you even hinted that.

>> No.11631582

>>11631341

She probably isn't as much of an otaku as you think. Anime is about as taboo there as it is here and people still think your a fucking nerd if you discuss it openly regardless of country. As far as Vocaloid is concerned I would assume most people in Japan know what it is considering it has it's own section clearly displayed on nico sidebar as soon as you open the page. It's just music I wouldn't worry too much about it.

>> No.11631680

You know what else is marketed to the otaku crowd, OP? AKB48.

It's kinda like being surprised Americans watch superhero movies because superheroes are for nerds. For numerous tl;dr reasons, we now live in a world where nerds are trendsetters. You're going to have to get used to it.

>> No.11633311
File: 494 KB, 1763x865, mikudb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11633311

did mikudb always look like this? i don't remember what site i used to download albums from, but it didn't look like this. top left = newest i assume.

>> No.11634179

>>11633311

no it got taken down and they rehosted it

>> No.11634211

I know a 14 year old Japanese girl who likes AKB48, a Japanese 5th grader who likes Kyary, and both she and her sister (in 7th grade) like Hyouka.
Otaku stuff is pretty common.

>> No.11634256

Why isn't vocaloid popular in /jp/?

>> No.11634271

Are there any TTS plugins for Vocaloid?

>> No.11634280

>>11634256
Nobody wants to be an EOP Vocaloid fan and not enough people know Japanese.

>> No.11634385

>>11634256
It is, but you don't find us making shitty topics on it.

>> No.11634467
File: 481 KB, 600x398, 345346567452.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11634467

>hanging out with 14 year old Japanese girls

>> No.11634489

>>11634271
There's Voiceroid, although it's separate and only a handful of voices for it.

There's also Hanasu for UTAU but I don't know anything about it.

>> No.11634493

Watching live performances of Miku and a lot of the people in the crowd are girls.

>> No.11634511

>>11634489
I was hoping to use Miku as a TTS output for a project I'm planning, shame if there is no easy way to handle that.

I will take a look at Voiceroid though, thanks for the info.

>> No.11635948

>>11633311
No.

>> No.11637822

>>11634467

>melon carroting on le /jp/

>> No.11637859 [DELETED] 
File: 502 KB, 1280x1024, Cirno.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11637859

>be britfag
>anime VERY unpopular
>like anime anyway
>cry myself to sleep every night
>never had any friends.jpeg
>think vocaloid is different
>fucked in the arse by society
>cry myself to sleep every night
>don't talk to people
>talk to my god damned computer screen more than real people
>cry myself to sleep every night
>home school now
>no friends
>family dislikes me, thinks i'm creepy for sitting alone on 4chan and anime mirror sites
>contemplate suicide
>almost attempt
>am pussy
>cry myself to sleep every night
>listen to only vocaloid music
>japanese vocaloid*
>accidently told someone irl that they were kawaii
>"lol fucking homo fag go back to fapping to japanese girls lol #yolo #420BLAZEITFAGGOTS"
>cry myself to sleep every night
>go to 4chan
>make greentext story
All of this is 100% true, except #yolo

Sorry for spamming up your board.

>> No.11637862 [DELETED] 

>>11637859
You deserved it nerd.

>> No.11637874 [DELETED] 

>>11637859
So the #420BLAZEITFAGGOTS was true?

>> No.11637875 [DELETED] 

>>11637859
Maybe Christ, Buddha or other will forgive your shitposting, but not us.

>> No.11637906

Vocaloid isn't exactly a niche otaku thing. You see it all over the place. When I tell people I like electronic music, they often ask "you mean like vocaloid?"

>> No.11637959

>>11637906
Maybe if you live in Japan.

>> No.11637973

>>11637959
I do. I'm saying it's not surprising for a 14 year old girl to know/like vocaloid. So don't assume she's a nerd.

>> No.11637990

>>11637959
Is really popular among the younger girls here too. I don't know why, but girls from around 15 to 25 seems to like it.

And I live near the opposite side of the Earth from Japan.

>> No.11638028

>>11637990
Brazil?

>> No.11638041

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryY3pKAIcSw
Vocaloid: an underground otaku sensation

>> No.11638049

>>11638028
I'll swear the Pacific isn't that big. I'm from 西.

>> No.11638178

>>11634489
>>11634511
>port miku to utau
>learn this hanasu thing and use it
Sound doable, I guess?

Are there any english TTS engines where you could use a custom voice, similar to UTAU?

>> No.11638183

>>11637990
Every time I mention I like vocaloid people assume I'm a 13yo obnoxious fangirl so I guess there must be something to it.

>> No.11638266

>>11638178
Oh man, you want to do that. It's really frowned upon to port a Vocaloid to UTAU, let alone against all their EULAs, but I doubt you care about that.

>> No.11638734

>>11638266
>It's really frowned upon to port a Vocaloid to UTAU
Why?

>> No.11639183

>>11638734
Copyrights and shit, also the result will sound awful. It's the kind of thing that you can do it, but you don't share it.

>> No.11642360

Oh a vocaloid thread goes in /jp/

I'm new to vocaloids, I'd never be able to use the software properly though.

I rented Project Diva F and I LOVE it shame Popipo probably won't be released due to Sony not liking to use Toro and Kuro

I watched a few vids of the Arcade games, is it me or are the graphics designed to look much better than even the PS3 games?

>> No.11642400

What's so surprising about that?
- All 10~14 girls want to be a cute idol like Miku
- Most of the 16+ wants to go back being young and be a Miku star
- All otakus want to bang Miku

When you think about it, it might be a good idea to solve the birthrate issue, assuming that someone find a way to make those girls want to behave like in the ero-doujins.

>> No.11642945
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11642945

Calcium Calne is superior anyway.

>> No.11642946
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11642946

>> No.11642947
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11642947

>> No.11642961

>>11642947
>>11642946
>>11642945
Did you but the figure?

>> No.11642984

>>11642947
That's fucking creepy.

>> No.11643907

Can we discuss Project Diva?

How come the arcade games have better graphics than even the PS3 ones?

>> No.11643954

It's not that Miku is the most popular vocaloid per say, it's just that she was the first vocaloid to come about, their are plenty of other popular vocaloids such as IA, Luka, Gumi, Len and so on and so forth. it's all a personal preference but Miku is a good spot to start on, after that it's more a thing of figuring out their personal tastes

>> No.11643963
File: 261 KB, 877x634, 3 1337641266445.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11643963

>>11643907
Because arcade have pre-rendered video clips playing on background, while ps3, vita & psp runing the actual 3dcg in realtime.

>> No.11643971

>>11643963

I though they were running in real time considering you can put costumes on them and stuff

>> No.11643974

So she claims she is into Vocaloid? Why are you assuming she is into Hatsune Miku specifically then?

Also, everything and their mother is marketed towards otaku crowd in Japan. That doesn't mean it can't get popular with other crowds.
Same way shonen anime are not only enjoyed by little boys but also waves of fujoshis.

>> No.11644006

>>11643971
My bad, few years ago I saw some crappy videos from PC fan-made Project Diva and for some reason thought they were from Arcade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Bz1GPVAEF8E

>> No.11644189

>>11644006

Oh that?

Yeah the videos don't play in real time, you cant customize your characters either.

>> No.11644217
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11644217

Miku is so mainstream even Louis Vuitton designed outfits for Miku.

>> No.11644218

>>11631341
Vocaloid is just retardedly popular.

>> No.11644219
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11644219

>>11644217

>> No.11644244

>>11644219
Fucking ZUN himself does a better job at designing.

>> No.11644272
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11644272

Well, I do know this one person on Facebook who's aware that Vocaloid exists. By the way, we are both from the deep south. Even over here we have our weeaboos!

>> No.11644285

>>11644272
Get the fuck out of /jp/

>> No.11645220

>>11631582
>Anime is about as taboo there as it is here and people still think your a fucking nerd if you discuss it openly regardless of country.

Except for the fact it's...I don't know... fucking everywhere you look in Japan in big cities, airs on their national television alongside shows with human actors and generates millions upon millions of profit each year and everything is marketed with the use of it?

>> No.11646062

>>11642961
I wish.

>> No.11646111 [DELETED] 
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11646111

>>11644272
>I do know this one person on Facebook

>> No.11646187

Not really directly related to Vocaloids but I don't want to start a new thread.
Western pop music tends to follow the I-V-vi-IV progression a lot. Is there a different chord progression that's specific to J-Pop and Vocaloid music or is it the same there?

>> No.11646200
File: 24 KB, 400x270, shojo2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11646200

>>11631341
I can say Miku is popular among elementary schoolers.
The pic is on Ribon, which is a girl's comic magazine. I've never read this, but they say a manga of Miku is serialized there.

>> No.11646205
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11646205

>>11646200
This is a cover of the Ribon magazine.

Oh it brings up a lot of memory... Ancient otaku in the US used to send a mail to Japan to get Zen-In present.

>> No.11647331

So this is the current vocaloid thread?

I have a Japanese coworker who went to visit her family recently and when she came back she asked me 'do you know Vocaloid?' Of course I do, and she said it was everywhere. She's curious about the voices and wanted me to lend her some albums featuring "the most popular one, what was her name? Hatsumi?"

This is far from a problem but the real problem is I can't choose which album to lend her. I tried asking if she had a preferred genre, and at one point she said rock, but she kept insisting that she just really wanted to hear the voices.

I was thinking of in the rain, or maybe something by heavenz? I have both Systemind Paradox and Humanoid Being. Of course it doesn't HAVE to be just miku. Maybe gekkabijin?

Though there's another question. Do I wanna stick with just Miku, or go for as wide a variety of Vocaloids as I can? I have Vocalosensation, but I really don't want her first exposure to Len and Gakupo to be daredemoii(ry so I don't want to include that.

What about kuroneko to uchuu chizu? Or Text? Or mikgazer, Rainy Story, Reboot, setsuna plus, I CAN'T DECIDE. And if I show up with an armful of CDs, she's gonna know what a huge otaku I am, and my cover as a normal well-adjusted member of society is blown.

Help me out?

>> No.11647384

>>11647331
>Do I wanna stick with just Miku, or go for as wide a variety of Vocaloids as I can?
Wider variety would be cool. What albums do you have?

>> No.11647432

>>11647384
Like I said earlier, I've got Vocalosensation, but that's the only ET compilation I have. I have The Legend of 超絶調声師, not great for variety, but about as good as ET I'd wager. I also have Vocalo Append (might be good) and VOCALOID民族調曲集 (don't know how she feels about folk though).

There are some doujin albums with a good variety of 'loids too. I've got the second and third henbyoushi compilations, Nice Beat and ¢oda, one of those might work?

>> No.11647469
File: 933 KB, 2700x1500, 1385246234894.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11647469

If you have a PSP, the games have a pretty solid soundtrack.

Check out some of the other vocaloids too. Megurine Luka is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNOhrFYsmNQ
Kagamine Rin has alot of good songs, Tengaku, Kokoro, Kokoro i especially like.
Not alot of people like Meiko, it's pretty polarized i've noticed. Her voice is the most electronic sounding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLpP0Wfq1gU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5HuAylyvl8
I haven't heard a single thing out of Kaito i've liked other than dancing samurai. or Teto. I like meiko alot, i think her artificial sounding voice adds to her charm.
Female Len fans tend to be creepy.
Alot of the songs are made by neckbeards and have strange lyrics once you translate them, like this one is catchy as fuck but is apperantly about the sex industry or child abuse or something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syTLWDx25io
Kinda puts me off at times.

>> No.11647480
File: 564 KB, 1416x1456, 1385246388991.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11647480

>>11647432

Bring a thumbdrive with a bunch of ripped songs. If she's interested the the voice then going with a compilation's a risky move anyways (too variable)

Songs I'd recommend for people interested in a (subjectively) 'good' voice would be:

Gossip (OSTER Project)
Exlium (AVTechNO!)
Pokkan color (Kikuo)
Meltdown (iroha)
Freely Tomorrow (MitchieM)
Viva viva Happy! (MitchieM)
SiSTEMATiC EMOTiON (Ginsuke)
Megane (Ultra-Noob)
未完成人間 (YM)
カミノコトバ (Yuyoyuppe)
Cosmos (Otetsu)

Etc....

>> No.11647547
File: 90 KB, 768x960, 1385247765519.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11647547

>>11647480

Err, forgot a few:

ニビョウカン (MARUDARUMA)
Jellyfish (co)
Kodoku (AVTechNO!)
Setsuna Trip (Last Note.)
Kisetsu no Nakahe (Clean Tears)
ルシッドドリーミング(ナイーヴP)

Use those to get a gauge of what music she likes and go form there.

>> No.11647560

>>11647480
This is a good idea, and it would solve the variety problem, but I think she was hoping for a physical CD... I guess if I gave her the songlist and Vocaloids listed on a piece of paper that'd be good too, right? (I just have a feeling including the proper ID3 tags wouldn't be enough. She's a bit older, and I'm wary of the generational divide with things like this.)

>> No.11647581

>>11647560

You could burn them to a CD and give them to her?

>> No.11647601

>>11647581
Hm, I might actually do this. I used to burn mix CDs all the time back in the day. I think I even still have some blank CDs around.

>> No.11647689

Why can't the ps3 games have as good as graphics as the arcade games?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGAnwD7B3U

look how better this is compared to the ps3 versions!

Is it because of "Grapical-Limitations?" Maybe the ps4 will have better graphics then.

>> No.11647774

>>11647689
I heard it's because all the arcade BGs are pre-rendered, and the PS3 is rendered in realtime.

also the PS3 version is a vita port, so vita limitations.

>> No.11647795

>>11647774

Really? If it's pre-rendered then how can you put costumes on everyone?

Sorry, I don't know graphics very well

>> No.11648244
File: 968 KB, 230x243, tumblr_msqarfp8W21r0lwogo3_250.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11648244

>>11647795
that's what i'm wondering too.

Truth is i have no idea, and i'm just going on what i heard.

I'll bet if there was a version for ONLY ps4, and not for a handheld, or ONLY for PC, it'd look just as good as arcade.

>> No.11648254

>>11648244

I heard the Dreamy Theater had much better graphics than the psp versions

and I thought that was just something like the gameboy player in that it wouldn't work without the psp game

>> No.11648292
File: 67 KB, 430x234, Gibson - Miku.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11648292

>>11631341

Apparently, Vocaloid songs now routinely make it into the most-popular lists of Karaoke music tracks over there. So it's pretty much mainstream now.

>> No.11648311
File: 2.66 MB, 250x141, shitpost extreme.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11648311

hatsune miku isnt a very good anime so I dont see the big deal about it on the internet.

>look we are just girls that are friends but this monsters fight in some other world so spooky xD

>> No.11648335 [DELETED] 

>>11647469
>I haven't heard a single thing out of Kaito i've liked other than dancing samurai. or Teto.

Try Kaito version of Byakko no Musume:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_ZL7_JhDI

>> No.11648353
File: 1.97 MB, 1500x1125, hmm-kaito-22336532-1500-1125.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11648353

>>11647469
>I haven't heard a single thing out of Kaito i've liked other than dancing samurai. or Teto.

Try Kaito version of Byakko no Musume:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_ZL7_JhDI

>> No.11648423
File: 1.37 MB, 1920x1200, 1379139823092.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11648423

>>11648353
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_ZL7_JhDI
Thats not half bad! I prefer things that are a bit faster though. Bit more bombastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWPE_sGt5Vo

>> No.11648514

which of the project diva psp games are fan-translated?

>> No.11648519

>>11648514
Why do you need a fucking translation for a rhythm game?

>> No.11648520

>>11648514
You don't need a translation to play Diva.

>> No.11648561

>>11647774
why would the bgs be rendered in real time... there's only a need for models being rendered in real time

>> No.11648567

>>11648561

Again, not sure how the game's M/Vs work

I figured since, with the ability to customize the models that everything was in real time, especialy considering Edit Mode

>> No.11649883 [DELETED] 

>>11647331
Show her albums with lots of Vocaloids, preferably also with not just Cryptons, new people should be educated from the start that there is more to Vocaloid than Miku and what the see in Project Diva.

Also, can't she just download music herself or browse niconico like everyone or something?

>>11646200
There is lots of Vocaloid manga serialized in magazines. There is 1,2 Funclub, Deadline Circus, Rin-chan Nau, some manga about Gumi and there is also a whole magazine dedicated to serialization on manga based on Vocaloid songs.

>> No.11649917

>>11647331
Show her albums with lots of Vocaloids, preferably also with not just Cryptonloids, new people should be educated from the start that there is way more to Vocaloid than just Miku and what they see in Project Diva.

Also, can't she just download music herself or browse niconico like everyone or something?

>>11646200
There is lots of Vocaloid manga serialized in magazines. There is 1,2 Funclub, Deadline Circus, Rin-chan Nau, some manga about Gumi and there is also a whole magazine dedicated to serialization of manga based on Vocaloid songs.

>>11647469
>I haven't heard a single thing out of Kaito i've liked other than dancing samurai.

But Dancing Samurai is Gakupo's song?

Listen to those, maybe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYMAjfq7UB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y57vO2Ie488

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwzSKT-aP1k

I don't really listen to Kaito much, so I'm not best in reccomending his songs...

>> No.11649931

>>11649917
>there is also a whole magazine dedicated to serialization of manga based on Vocaloid songs

Wait, seriously?

>> No.11649942

>>11649931
Yeah, Comic@loid

www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00FZJ998A/

There is Mozaik Role serialized in it, Shiryoku Kensa, Sarishinohara, Nou Shou Sakuretsu Girl, Dancing Samurai, Poker Face, Renai Yuusha etc. Most of the artists drawing the manga are people from the Vocaloid community who often make PVs, like Tama, Akka, CHRIS and so on.

It comes out once every two months and it's a new magazine (first issue came out in July this year)

>> No.11655416
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11655416

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot4b8kh9EDU

>> No.11658507

I like Miku

>> No.11661571

>>11658507
Miku is good but overrated!

>> No.11661578

Is this guy going to post pictures of her or not?

>> No.11664563

i hate vocaloid so fucking much. and all of you as well.

>> No.11665472

>>11664563
Vocaloid will always love you.

>> No.11667488

Any more sad songs from Vocaloid ? i like their song such as the daughter of evil trilogy,kokoro,paper plane and stuffs like that. Any more should i know?

>> No.11667502

>>11631341
You came to the right place to ask that question. /jp/ is full of Japanese girls.

>> No.11667514

>>11667502
This, they're all in the basement.

>> No.11667541

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8FtKwrl7Gw

>> No.11668750

>>11648292
William Gibson never ceases to amaze me. Even talks about vocaloid.

>> No.11668781

>>11668750
He wrote a whole book about how the internet sucks, or something.

Here's Vocaloid c. 1939:
http://davidszondy.com/future/robot/voder.htm

Someone please pay attention to me this time. This is interesting. Someone care.

>> No.11673831

>>11668781
Well, this is interesting, but it's also nothing like vocaloids and nobody's claiming vocaloids were a new technology anyway.

More importantly, it couldn't have gone mainstream because the world lacked a certain technological advancement that Japan invented only several decades later. Moe.

>> No.11673893
File: 590 KB, 850x894, 1373150863543.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11673893

>>11668781

>> No.11673931

Show us what she looks like.

>> No.11674119

>>11673831
Japan didn't invent moe.

>> No.11676233

>>11631483

>I'm considering placing her with a nerdy American girl

Does it need to be a girl?

>> No.11676677

>>11631341
>I have a female japanese student coming to study english in the US who is 14 and claims to be into anime & vocaloid

How the heck do I get into this club? I would love to have a Japanese exchange student here for a year and help me translate a couple books that would take me 9 months to chew through.

>> No.11676757

>>11676677
have u ever thought maybe that 14 year old nip girl doesnt want to translate ur shitty little porno books

>> No.11676756

>>11633311
they don't seem to post anything new anymore. everything listed there existed before mikudb went offline, except every single download is now masked behind adfly links. just download the two massive mikudb torrents.

also the website looks god awful.

>> No.11677694

>>11674119
Fine, Korea.

>> No.11682819

what are some of the best vocaloid trance albums you guys enjoy?

>> No.11682846

>>11682819
It's not an album but I like Xhroria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onPcvh6G1SM

>> No.11682851

>>11682846
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTo1oBs_4VE

I probably should have specified trance more like this, more 4/4 type traditional trance

>> No.11688233
File: 47 KB, 321x450, MIKU BITCH.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11688233

How will you introduce your future children to Miku?

>> No.11688292
File: 309 KB, 500x635, tumblr_mnuasks59o1r3q6jpo1_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11688292

>>11688233

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