/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Can we talk about movies again?

I've watched the following:

Gaichu, All about Lily Chou-Chou, Kokuhaku, Tenten, Soredemo boku wa yattenai, Memories of Murder, Oldboy and Confessions of a Dog.

The first two were just depressing. How exaggerated is the depiction of social structure in schools in Lily Chou-Chou?
About the last one, how accurate is the portrayal of the police and judiciary system? Accurate enough for them to only have shown the movie 5 years after its release?

What else should I watch?

[Anonymous No.]

ドライヴ

[Anonymous No.]

Why are you trying to discuss korean movie(s?) on /jp/?? Please keep the discussion to Japanese movies only thanks. Korean is not otaku culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577006
Lily Chou-Chou and Confessions of a Dog are not Korean, dood.

[Anonymous No.]

Are you specifically asking for horror films?

(I tried to make a thread about this, let's just say it wasn't within a certain person's interests)

[Anonymous No.]

>how accurate is
It's true. It's all true and perfectly described. Movies don't lie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577003
i only dabbled in korean stuff, but there are a few japanese ones (like audition) in my backlog.

as for korean movies i love:
oldboy
thirst
i saw the devil
a bittersweet life
tale of two sisters
man from nowhere

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577007

Oldboy is Korean. Please delete the thread and remake it with only Japanese movies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577011
Do good japanese movies even exist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577008
No, I don't like horror movies at all actually.

>>11577011
I wasn't discussing Oldboy at all.

[Anonymous No.]

Jay-san from RedLetterMedia recommended an interesting-sounding C*rean film, but I can't remember what it was. Some drama.

Anyone know what it was?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577013

Yeah but I think they should be discussed in the correct thread instead of a Korean movie thread

>>11577016
>I've watched the following ... Oldboy
That's taken from the OP. This thread is about Korean movies and it's not allowed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577023
I listed it, I wasn't discussing it now shut up you sperglord before I report your ass to the Janny

[Anonymous No.]

Meanwhile,

``Let's play /jp/ MMOs by Koreanet and Kimchisoft! And let's also make friends on Steam ^___^''
· ``5/5 thread'' — /jp/ Times
· ``Best poster since Arc'' — Message Board Digest
· ``Nice. Epic. I like it.'' — Anonymous

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577006
>>11577011
>>11577023
>>11577034
buttblasted little jap

[Anonymous No.]

Why didn't Marty-kun just tell George-kun that he was his son?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577032
Ok. Hopefully Jenny won't del your korean thread if I can save it with some good JP movies. Here's some good _Japanese_ movies I have watched:

Battle Royale
The Ring (full series)
Versus
Audition
Ace Attorney
Dead or Alive (NOT related to the video game series!!! I also can't remember which of the 3 are good but I know at least 1 of them is)
Violent Cop
Boiling Point
Sonatine

There's another one but I can't remember the name of it. It's pretty good though so if I remember I'll post it.

I would also recommend that you watch the rest of the "Vengance Trilogy" by the gook who made Oldboy, if you haven't already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577043
scream your little nerd lungs out at everything you don't like, the janny will delete your posts anyway

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577047
> good
> Japanese

As if that wasn't funny enough ... that list, oh my god.

I am actually giggling to myself out loud.

Thank you Anon, you've made my day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577057

*pauses Pierot le Fou (in french, no subtitles)*
*checks thread*

Oh boy, some small time amateur movie critic is trying to impress people on 4chan *rolls eyes*
Head on over to >>>/tv/ if you want to be like that.

[Anonymous No.]

Jesus, why is /jp/ so pleb?

Pic related, it's Tokyo Story. I don't care if you only like moé samurai girls battling robots, watch it, if only for its profound influence on Japanese popular culture.

Also watch Akira Kurosawa's filmography. Start with The Hidden Fortress: it's accessible and it's basically what Star Wars ripped off (in the same way The Magnificent Seven ripped off Seven Samurai).

Good films aren't taxing or pseudo-intellectual, they're a pleasure to watch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577070
Akira Kurosawa gets recommended a lot here

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577067
> Pierot le Fou (in french, no subtitles)

Please ... have you even *seen* Amelie?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577076
Literally every thread about him I've made has been deleted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577070

because Japanese movies blow harder than American movies. if you want a trashy popcorn movie, you watch American. same applies to Japan.

if you want some real high class culture you watch something made in europe, or if you're true patrician, something from the middle east/africa

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577080
I guess you can only discuss Touhou and Touhou shitposting on this board without the autists here feeling threatened, as demonstrated earlier in this thread.

[Anonymous No.]

oh also I recommend the Japanese DUB (dub only) of Ghost Dog. it combines the deep meaningful japanese ''samurai'' lifestyle with the amazing cutting edge movie making you only find in America

don't be a pleb and watch the original. catch the Japanese dub for the authentic nihongo (japanese) feel

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577079
>if you want some real high class culture you watch something made in europe

who DOGME 95 here

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577092
I want to meet someone like this GIF man. Imagine how low-maintenance as a friend he'd be.

"Cool fedora, bro!"
"Thanks. By the way, I just saw Firefly by Joss Whedon. Most epic series ever, much?"
"Ha ha, that's great! Tell me more!"


I want a friend.

[Anonymous No.]

Name me more trashy movies like Tokyo Gore Police. Machine gun girl is already on my list.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577117
RoboCop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577097

as it's halloween, I am watching ''Seul contre tous'' by Gaspar Noe (original french, no subs of course). truly the most spookiest halloween movie is the one which makes you question your own life of self isolation and abandonment of the real world.............

>>11577117
Tetsuo the Iron Man
almost any movie by Takashi Miike
I would say most of Kurosawa-sama's movies are trash too but I don't think that's what you meant

[Anonymous No.]

one last recommendation from me

Electric Dragon 80.000 V

only bad dudes need bother watching a movie this hardcore

[Anonymous No.]

korean movies are disgusting. i do like the suspense in their movies but they have to use so many disturbing scenes to just make you feel ill.

ive seen oldboy, i saw the devil, and memories of murder. couldnt decide whether i liked them or not after watching them

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577160
Is the second about cannibals? I can't watch anything about that, its repulsing.

[Anonymous No.]

can anyone recommend me some good japanese drama shows?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577166
yes in the second one, its revealed that the killer rapes and kills women, then chops them up to sell the meat to his rich friend who is obsessed with eating human eat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577174
I should probably not read that spoiler. Then again I'm not planning on watching it now anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577160
you need to toughen up if something like that bothers you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577168
nobuta wo produce is a very good show.

its about 2 guys who try to make a bullied girl the most popular in their school

[Anonymous No.]

please move this to /tv/ thjank you

[Anonymous No.]

Just going to throw it out there:

Kishoutenketsu is shit. It's a terrible plot structure based on how folk tales were told, and it has no relevance in today's world. People watching cartoons or films aren't wrong to complain about it, because they're not peasants sat around a fire in feudalist China/Japan.

The three-act structure is superior, and most literary critics agree, whether it's for a novel, a play, or a film.

The problem is that East Asia clings on to their earlier, outdated, obsolete, and inferior plot structure, because "MUH CULTURE!"
I'm fine with a country holding their culture dear, but they're accepting an outdated format just for the sake of retaining it.

Hopefully Japan will upgrade to (or learn by themselves) what Western Europe has known for millennia, and then we can finally have some good Japanese films.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577188
nobody on /tv/ talks about japanese/korean stuff. only american allowed

[Anonymous No.]

watched this the other day. i don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577195
Where's that from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577206
As long as it's not depressing or features enjo kosai

[Anonymous No.]

loli movie?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577125
Will check that out, thanks, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

Are Japanese people not embarrassed to make films?

They're competing with Hollywood. America. The country who beat them in the greatest war the world has ever known, and has had hundreds of years of development stemming from the best countries in the world.

I'm not American and I don't live in America, but I'd be pretty damn embarrassed if I tried to compete with their media output, especially if they have beaten me in every other regard. It's like trying to compete with the school bully (who is also more talented than you) in the school talent show.

This isn't really a troll post, I don't get it. I know a lot of time has passed since World War II, but aren't they embarrassed to even try? Good for them that they are, but isn't it just shameful that they even bother? America has more money than them, and frankly the US kicked their asses. Why try to compete with a kid who is bigger and better than you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577213
>They're competing with Hollywood. America.
Do you really think they are? People who watch Japanese movies are Japanese people and people interested in parts of Japanese culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577190
i wouldn't say that kishotenketsu is irrelevant though. it has a very different focus compared to the three act structure and that's what i like about it.
it literally is just about change. or rather, keeping the viewer interested through change. (kinda adhd)

also, it's more than a storytelling tool. the concept can be applied to sequential arts too (paneling storyboarding). the concept itself is, similar to Jo-ha-kyū, more about "pacing* than anything else.
it's about the idea that, if you arrange something normal in a certain way, it will suddendly become something interesting.
stuff like 4koma or SOL may not have existed without it.

as an idea, i always considered it something completely different from the 3-act structure. so different that you can barely compare them.

As a storytelling tool it's not as sophisticated but the concept is broader than that, and that's what i like about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577235
Can you make a simple example where you compare the two structures?

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vmq_PkV5OQ
GROOVY.

[Anonymous No.]

Also interested in >>11577241

(get to it, >>11577235)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577216
They're making the same kind of media.

I don't know. It's like banging simple beats on wooden drums when you're fully aware of the hundreds of varied musical styles out there.

Honestly, I don't view any race or nationality as superior or inferior to any other, but I don't get why you would even try to make the same type of output as another country who:
* beat you in a huge war
* entirely bombed two of your cities killing hundreds of thousands
* has more money than you
* has a more advanced foundation for that kind of media

Isn't Japan all about shame and humility? If I was Japan as a person, I'd be meek and quiet, and trying not to piss off America as best as I can. I would NOT be competing with them in film-making contests.

[Anonymous No.]

shodo girls

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577293
So they shouldn't bother with music, art and literature anymore either?

The vast majority of Japanese media is not seeing international releases anyway, and if they are, then only because of the goodwill of fans that are doing translation work. It's not a competition and neither of the two is competing against each other.

Your thinking is really weird. If you reply to this, I won't read it until tomorrow because I'm going to bed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577293

Very creative, one of the weirder trolls I've seen in a while. B+

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577344
He didn't give potential takers enough to work with even if they wanted to reply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577318
Well I appreciate you replying, anyway. I think this might be because of my own personal issues, but I also think I still have a point because this is a global phenomenon. Again, I have nothing personal against any race or creed, but you don't stand up to people who just beat you in a war, and 70 years doesn't change that fact.

Real-life politics aside, imagine you have the Alphans and the Betans. The Alphans are taller, stronger, more intelligent, and more cultured than the Betans. Eventually, the two groups go to war. The Alphans win because they're better in all those regards.
Then the Alphans enter a talent contest. They're a shoe-in to win, because they're the best. The Betans wouldn't then sign up for the same talent contest, because they'd get annihilated.

I don't know. It's not a matter of eugenics or racial supremacy or anything like that, I just don't get it. Why would a culture so based on humility try to compete with a culture more advanced and with more financial backing than them? And it is a competition, because Hollywood movies are released in Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577352
Please kill yourself out of /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577358
Why? Because I don't worship the Japanese?

Again, theoretically this has nothing to do with the real-world countries. Think of science fiction stories where some advance alien race enslaves humanity. You don't stand up to those aliens and say, "Hey, we're better than you at <x>!"

I'm not saying we should put Japanese people in cages and laugh at them or label them as inferior beings, but they should show some humility and accept that we've academically advanced beyond their means of storytelling. I can appreciate folk music, but it's not the most intellectual or entertaining application of music theory out there. I don't get why Japanese writers are clinging to their outdated storytelling methods, besides the fact that it's Asian (which arguably IS xenophobia/nationalism/racism).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577371
It doesn't cost as much to produce a movie any more and Japan has a hell of a lot of money to throw around. Why do you think they can't compete with Hollywood? Maybe not the super hero films and all that shit but when it comes to a regular old drama they can compete easy. Older Japanese films even outdid the Hollywood of the day on occasion. Japanese directors have had a pretty big influence on Hollywood and likewise. We live in an age of globalization.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577371
Generating discussion through trolling is fine, but not if the resulting discussion is wholly uninteresting. You have to at least pretend to be an expert for that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577388
Well I think it's a different climate today. Cinema is a lot more "global".

Sure you could write a novel in the 1800s, maybe it would even get translated and exported to another country, but it reflected your country and its style of storytelling.

When a country has beaten you at storytelling, you don't cling on to the old ways that have been proven to be worse. It's like fighting an army of rifle-wielding soldiers with bow-and-arrows.

There's a reason 90% of the world uses the three-act structure. The only reason 1% of the world uses kishotenketsu is that it belongs to their culture, not that it's actually better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577279
>>11577241
Didn't i just say that they are barely comparable? I'm too lazy to think up an example, for now just read up on kishotenketsu and you should be able to see the difference.
Tomorrow this thread will probably still be here so maybe i'll come back to it later.


http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish%C5%8Dtenketsu

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577402
I'm not an expert. If someone more knowledgeable can enlighten me, I'd honestly appreciate that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577411
What has that got to do with Japanese films?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577003
I don't know about the movie, but Lily Chou-Chou's music was great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577419
Everything?

Look at the games available for download (through Steam or whatever).

If one is super fun and entertaining, and another is boring because "Commodore 64 games were like that", chances are you'd prefer the fun one.

By clinging on to old-fashioned storytelling methods, the Japanese are producing inferior products. And they're not showing the humility they should be showing in that regard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577440
Your whole argument is predicated on the idea that kinshonsetsu blows chunks because it's the 21st century everyone agrees and get over it, but that's not a very convincing argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577440
So cinema should be created out of intent to generate revenue? Why are those games on steam, if they are boring? But they generate revenue in any case, so even from that stance it's useful.

Japan mostly uses Western plot structures in contemporary film so I don't know what you're on about. Even in books and mangos they use Western plot structures. Despite that, it's art and art isn't always meant to make money. That's not the idea. The experimentation and changing from traditional plots or stories or anything really is what keeps things amusing. It's like asking why do we keep making movies if we've already created some 10/10s?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577440
Your entire argument is through analogies, try to make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/tv/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577445
Well I just think overall we've come up with a better alternative. I'm sure there exceptions to the rule, just like in every form of media.

>>11577465
I'm not saying, "Everything must follow the same structure!", I just get the impression they're using an inferior structure for stories in general and it's self-damaging.
"This story may be poorly paced and hard to follow," they say, "But at least it's true Japanese kishotenketsu, and not that disgusting, convenient, and entertaining three-act structure the gaijin use!"

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577471
I was just trying to break my argument down into basic building blocks. I don't really know how else to express it. If you take fault with some specific part, explain it and I'll let you know my thoughts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577502
Can you give examples from this year's films or are you talking out of your ass?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577502
>Well I just think overall we've come up with a better alternative. I'm sure there exceptions to the rule, just like in every form of media.
Then it makes even more sense for them to focus on developing gems within their peculiar cultural niche rather than trying to complete with Hollywood making traditional Western films.

>>11577508
>are you talking out of your ass?
Gee, I wonder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577508
I haven't seen any films from this year (not for any elitist reason, I just haven't watched any).

Do you mean Japanese films or Western films? Because Citizen Kane, one of the most famous Western films of all time, is better than Japan's most famous outputs. It's not just a "cinematography film", it's a great example of the three-act structure applied to a person's whole life. This was in 1941. Japan's most "artistic" outputs (Tokyo Story is the most obvious one) are nowhere near as good in terms of structure.

[Anonymous No.]

I want /tv/ to leave

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577528
Pretty sure /tv/ can do better than "Citizen Kane had a better structure than Tokyo Story, therefore Japan should only make Western-style films from now on."

Well, I don't know. I guess from what I've heard /tv/ is pretty retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577515
>Then it makes even more sense for them to focus on developing gems within their peculiar cultural niche rather than trying to complete with Hollywood making traditional Western films.

I agree, except we've found a better method. It's like they're still recording on gramophones and we have hi-tech microphones.

Again, not all films have to fit the same structure, but if they break the mold then the films had better be more enjoyable/profound/entertaining. Sadly, this isn't the case for kishotenketsu. It's a wonderfully simple example of tradition for the sake of traditional, rather than being better.

It's actually a shame, because if the same film makers were creating proper films, maybe they'd produce something good. It's not about acting or special effects (obviously, Hollywood is better at both), it's about making a good story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577541
>I agree, except we've found a better method.
So once again we're back to "kishonsetsu inherently produces crap stories."

>It's actually a shame, because if the same film makers were creating proper films, maybe they'd produce something good.
Japan produces lots of three-act stories and I doubt you think any of them are any good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577526
That's sixty years ago. Relate contemporary film. It's also speculative opinion.

Today's audience would give Citizen Kane negative ratings. Both films advanced the art and continue to influence both sides of the world. Art is always evolving and film is relatively young so it's hard to say anything one way or another about a superior plot structure. Even contemporary literature is evolving structurally, and music. All art evolves endlessly so yeah, saying "They should just stop! It's shameful!" doesn't make any kind of sense, especially as international borders break.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577538
I haven't visited /tv/ in years.

Citizen Kane is a good film. I'm not going to diss it to appear more qualified or whatever. It's acclaimed and deserves its reputation. There are Japanese films that are the same, including ones that don't fit the three-act structure. Again, I'm not claiming all films should.

My point is that Japanese films are using an outdated mode of storytelling for the sake of tradition, rather than making actually good films. American films are released in Japan and they're a lot better than their local films. I'm not American so this isn't nationalist bias or whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577546
>So once again we're back to "kishonsetsu inherently produces crap stories."

No, it can produce a good story, but it would be a niche, not an inherent method of storytelling like the Japanese pretend it is. It's like hitting random keys on a keyboard instead of using proper music theory, developed independently among dozens of civilizations (sorry to that Anon who said I use too many analogies).

>>11577550
But whereas Western storytelling has evolved, Japanese film hasn't. They stubbornly refuse to adopt a better storytelling mechanism, because of their culture. And they unashamedly compete with better producers of films in every regard, despite having lost in every way imaginable.

Again, there are great Japanese films, including those that break the confines of Western plot structure. But there's a reason that the UK, Italy, France, Australia, the United States, etc. has adopted a Greek method of storytelling from thousands of years ago, and it's that it works.
The reason the Japanese have stuck to a Chinese-Japanese method of storytelling from hundreds of years ago is that it's Chinese-Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577577
>No, it can produce a good story, but it would be a niche, not an inherent method of storytelling like the Japanese pretend it is. It's like hitting random keys on a keyboard instead of using proper music theory, developed independently among dozens of civilizations (sorry to that Anon who said I use too many analogies).
Hitting random keys on a keyboard produces inherently crap music. That's a claim you can safely make. If you were actually sorry, you would stop making shitty analogies and start providing examples.

Your whole argument is predicated on the idea that kishonsetsu inherently sucks (analogous to sitting a monkey in front of a drum set). We've heard the conclusions you've drawn from it (Japanese people cling to their shitty traditional style because they're shameless, xenophobic and retarded) because you repeated them a dozen times. So hurry up and justify your premise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577577
You still haven't given contemporary examples.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577254
nobody knows who ash Williams is here? go wacth evil dead 2 guys.

[Anonymous No.]

http://blog.tewaters.com/2013/01/on-narrative-structure-kishotenketsu.html
A great post on kishotenketsu.
In general i'd say kishotenketsu allows for a different kind of approach. If the three act structure focuses mainly on story, you could say that kishotenketsu focuses mainly on narrative and the reader/viewer, sometimes even leaving things up to interpretation.

I just thought of a good example to explain the difference:
If we were all sitting around a campfire telling each other stories, the 3-act structure-guy would all be about telling an interesting story based on events.
Whereas kishotenketsu-dude would bring up pieces of stories or narrative and bring them together in the end to make a point or shed light on something.

Anyway, read that link. That guy wrote about kishotenketsu in pretty much the same way i would interpret the subject.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11577003
I have started watching Crows Zero II after finishing the first one. They are pretty shit, but the fight scenes can be cool and are overly animated.