Shinto Religion and Philosophy

[Anonymous No.]

I'm someone who has been interested in Japanese culture, preferentially for some time now and am looking more into particular details to the history; one aspect of Japan's history I'm really interested in is the development in Shinto. What do you know about this religion? I understand Buddhism and Christianity are also big names in Japan now, but does Shinto still have its place in the lives of daily Japanese folk? Also, why on earth are people not allowed to go to the Ise shrine?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511837

I myself am a Taoist and feel Shinto beliefs do well hand-in-hand with mine and want to look into Shinto all the more in hopes to apply it to my life. Do you worship in the Shinto faith? Without shrines and such outside of Japan, how exactly do you follow the religion?

[Anonymous No.]

Shinto is just animism. It's the same religion that primitive African tribes practice.

[Anonymous No.]

Is atheism big in Japan yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511850

Could you elaborate? That's actually really interesting, considering the two are so far apart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511854
Just look up animism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511854
Animism has developed in hundreds of cultures all over the world. It's the belief that natural physical entities have spiritual essences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511844
Shinto is a part of Japan, but most people do not consider it a religion. Going to Shrines and stuff is just "something you do". Tons of people go every year on new year's, but most people claim to not even have a religion (and the ones that do mostly claim buddhism)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511867
>>11511860

Would this be considered an outdated concept in modern Japan at this point in time though? I've noticed, if anything, Christianity and similar beliefs seem to be the odd ones out if Animism had its hands in a lot of developing religions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511875
That's the same way primitive indigenous peoples view their beliefs. They don't even have names for their systems, they just do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511892
>>11511875

So I suppose trying to 'practice' Shintoism as a foreigner is kinda' forcing a habit?

[Anonymous No.]

>/jp/-Japanese Culture and Religions

Just read the Wikipedia page on Shinto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511898
Oh god, look at this retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511898
You can practice by visiting a shrine in Japan or buying any old omamori. Shinto isn't exclusive and there's no "entering" into it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511899

I did, and am, but I was curious to see what some of ya'll thought and knew about it outside of tuhu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511907

I think that's a really good way of explaining it. With that, it sounds like it's more a way of life than anything else really.

>>11511904

I was proposing an angle you nerd.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is proof that just because the discussion is civil doesn't mean the thread isn't shit.

[Anonymous No.]

It's basically Animism. It just shows that Japs are stupid and outdated. This is why no one enjoys Japanese culture except for a couple of idiots. It doesn't matter either way. Japanese culture will be dead within the next couple centuries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511837
>I'm someone who has been interested in Japanese culture
This isn't the correct board, weaboo.

>>>/a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511923
I don't think anyone argues that civil discussion is always good, but rather that uncivil discussion always derails into trolling and flaming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511931
I prefer trolling and flaming over stupid shit like this. At least one is actually funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511931
>>11511923

So far, going to the wiki solved the entire existance of this thread. I think most of the people in this thread just have nothing better to do at the moment. So, yeah, I think it's shitposting.

At least it's not ironic shitposting though.

>>11511930

As if /a/ would know what Shinto even is.

[Anonymous No.]

I am more interested in praising the Sun, myself.
How do I achieve incandescent magnificence?

[Anonymous No.]

Buddhism offered academic and intellectual learning, as well as forms of governance and organization that did not exist prior, and thus was very pragmatically taken up by the upper echelons of society. Like Christianity, it adopted local gods and turned them into saints and took over some local holidays, but unlike Christianity it did not demand mutual exclusiveness. For much of the history of Japan, the Shrine to a local god would be joined with the priestly functions of A Buddhist temple, not not really seen as separate entities.

Eventually there was some growing sentiment between nativism and foreign, and Buddhism was identified as a foreign element, and Shinto a native one, which is when you start to see their identities separate.

Shinto only really became a religion when the emperor stopped being a puppet, and as a divine ruler who drew power though Shinto lineage, instituted and formalized state-shinto, which is what gives modern shinto an identity.

Just read some books on it instead of asking stupid questions with long answers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511952
>Shinto only really became a religion when the emperor stopped being a puppet, and as a divine ruler who drew power though Shinto lineage, instituted and formalized state-shinto, which is what gives modern shinto an identity.
It’s funny because his lineage is just one of many and literally has no basis in ancient rulers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511939
They would /a/ is all weebs.

[Anonymous No.]

I know they used to grow a lot of weed and offer it to Amaterasu until America put a stop to that after winning WWII.

A lot of Japanese don't even know this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511853
Should be, I don't think anyone in jp even follow religion, they just go to shrines and bullshit because "it's part of the culture" or "what they thought me"

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511962
Wild hemp just grows natively in Hokkaido. But like all other Asian countries it’s a deadly sin to consume.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511964
Just like most Europeans. I was baptised and confirmed and we celebrate Christian holidays but we’re not really religious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511837
lol get a load of this weeb

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511966
It's also illegal to grow isn't it? Why doesn't the government get rid of it? If I asked a person from Hokkaido, do you think they'd know about this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511974
>It's also illegal to grow isn't it?
Yes. Just like opium in central Asia isn’t legal in most states (though Afghan warlords grow it to fund their militias)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511962
>>11511966
I wish to blaze it with some cute shrine maidens...

[Anonymous No.]

Actually, OP, Christianity still doesn't have that much of a presence in Japan. Ironically, the two cities with the biggest Christian populations before the end of WWII were Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It never really recovered from that.

People will wear the cross because its Western and "edgy" but the public perception of Christians is largely as people who stand around outside of festivals with placards and bullhorns shouting about how the celebrations are an affront to God and that everyone who takes part is going to Hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511992
All the cool Japanese are Mormons developing Ruby.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511992
From what I understand Christianity got a pretty good foothold initially but it was riling up the lower orders so the powers that be had to crack down on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511992
To my knowledge, many Japanese at least believe in the monotheistic God and celebrate Christmas.
That's pretty close to what most Westerners do, all things considered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512031
>To my knowledge
I hope you can get a refund.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512031
They celebrate Christmas, but they have no clue why they are celebrating it. They celebrate it to resemble the west. Also most Japanese are not religious. They follow certain traditions, but they don't believe in a bunch of wacky spirits floating around. The only real religion is Buddhism there, and even that is more of a way of life rather than a religion, although I believe most Japanese are the more spiritual sect of Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512036
ouch. burn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512052
Please sage /a/utistic. Just because sage is now invisible does not mean people don't know if you didn't sage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512055
I get that we're in a Japanese culture thread, but who gives a damn about humility if nobody can see it?

You can piss on toilet seats and pick your nose as long as nobody knows. But if you draw attention to it (like you just did), then that's what makes it rude.

[Anonymous No.]

Sean please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512057
See this is the type of attitude I was worried about. This is why we need sage back. We cannot let our traditions die out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512062
Keep your Japanese spirit alive, Anonymous!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512057
I didn't want to push my luck on a foreign board by arguing but I thought /jp/ is slow enough that posting 9 minutes after last reply doesn't warrant a sage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/int/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512071
You must always sage on /jp/. It is a rule. Do not forget sage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512062
The old gods have had their time. Truth has come with the foreigners and souls can be saved by following the Church's teachings. Heathens who cling to the old ways will be compelled by the power of Christ to kneel before God.

[sager No.]

>>11512094
You can take my life, but you will never take my sage!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512094
Sounds like a total war dilemma

[Anonymous No.]

Shinto is specifically for the JAPANESE people. It is not tied so much to the land as it it is to those people and it goes hand in hand with the great events of a Japanese individual's life as well as Japanese communities at large.

If you are not Japanese there is nothing you can get from Shinto. Feel free to continue looking at Taoism and Buddhism and other human-hearted or interracial religions, but regional things like Shinto only apply to the Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512332
Thanks, I needed that.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there such a thing as Shinto Terrorists?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512368
>02/15/12
>02/2012
>/jp/ is "otaku culture"
It's weaponized /a/ now, nerd

[sager No.]

>>11512400
Please sage. Sage is what makes us weaponized /a/, nerd.

[Anonymous No.]

Aside from the official state cult, "shinto" just means local folk-tradition, doesn't it? Or are there also widespread mystery cults like there were in Rome?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512368
I know you're just stirring shit ITT, but the religious factions over there are touhou-relevant, and shintoist weirdness is relevant to several VN's. So learning about it would be great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512043
>They celebrate Christmas, but they have no clue why they are celebrating it. They celebrate it to resemble the west. Also most Japanese are not religious.
Isn't this the way it is in most civilized 1st world countries?

Don't tell me you celebrate Christmas because you're actually Christian.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511837
Shinto isn't really a religion like you would consider other religions. It is just a set of beliefs and practices. It's more a part of the culture. Pure Shinto doesn't even really exist, as it is mostly intertwined with Buddhism (many people engage in both Buddhist and Shinto practises).
>I understand Buddhism and Christianity are also big names in Japan now
Buddhism has been in Japan and "big" there, for over a thousand years. Christianity is tiny in Japan, and never will be big. Just because people celebrate Christmas, does not mean they believe in god or care about Jesus.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512565
>Just because people celebrate Christmas, does not mean they believe in god or care about Jesus.
Much like the US. Its a consumer holiday now anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512565
and shrine maidens

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512569
>>11512562
Jesus_vs_Santa_southpark.gif

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511958
You could say that about most lineage based monarchies with divine right to rule, except for maybe China.

>>11511992
Christianity went underground after isolationist policies, and became so weird the Catholic church disowned them.

>>11512008
No, foreign trade interests that were acting through missions were doing some things that really pissed off the shogun, so he killed and expelled all foreigners and didn't want and Japanese to be loyal to them and be subversive.

>>11512332
No, that's completely wrong. It is completely tied to the land. If you go visit a different island, chances are you may be praying to a different god. Kami are region and often object based, except for a small pantheon of "universal" gods. You almost never see shinto in the West even in Japanese communities except for ground breaking ceremonies and portable shrines in parades.

>>11512524
Both. You could have crazy priests, oracles, onmyoji etc starting up their own cults.

>>11512532
Reimu is Shinto

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512565
>Shinto isn't really a religion like you would consider other religions. It is just a set of beliefs and practices. It's more a part of the culture.
This is inaccurate. The accurate thing to say is that unlike areas with dominant Abrahamic religions, Japan does not believe in the mutual exclusiveness of religion, except for a few crazy Christians. You can be Taoist, Shinto, Buddhist and Christian* at the same time in Japan.

> Pure Shinto doesn't even really exist, as it is mostly intertwined with Buddhism (many people engage in both Buddhist and Shinto practises).
Yes it does, you could have made that argument a few hundred years ago, but one of the Shoguns, I can't remeber which demanded temples identify as Shinto, native-Japanese, or Buddhist, foreign religion. It became even strong with state Shinto and the restoration.

>Buddhism has been in Japan and "big" there, for over a thousand years.
That depends on what you mean by big. Buddhism was exclusively for the elite until just short of 1000 years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

> crazy priests, oracles, onmyoji etc starting up their own cults.
Okay, here we go. That and shinto clans with witchcraft / curse / spell-casting going on. Wax voluminous, if you please. Remember this board has multiple archives, so you wouldn't be wasting your effort if you wrote a whole damn essay on the topic. And it sounds like you do know what you're talking about, too, so I'd be interested in reading it, if you wanna write it.

[Anonymous No.]

Japan is so mysterious. That's why it attracts my heart so much deeply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511924
Then why you're in /jp/, idiot lol

No excuse like "Just to make fun of weeaboo." works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512574
>You could say that about most lineage based monarchies with divine right to rule
Well, most of them died out. Can’t think of any ruling house that claims to be from a lineage of ancient rulers picked by the heavens.
But yeah loads of old monarchies would claim they were Gods favourite.
The Chinese way is just a bit different in that each dynasty would say it’s picked to replace the former dynasty, not claiming ancient heritage necessarily.

Interesting thing about Chinese dynasties is that they often claimed to restore the order of a dynasty or two ago. Of course the Han dynasty was a favourite for later dynastic revolutions to base themselves on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512584
>This is inaccurate.
I'm not saying Shinto is literally not a religion. Merely that it isn't a religion like someone from the west would envision a religion to be, as it is more just a general following of practises and beliefs, rather than a following of a scripture or set out rules.

>Yes it does, you could have made that argument a few hundred years ago, but one of the Shoguns, I can't remeber which demanded temples identify as Shinto, native-Japanese, or Buddhist, foreign religion. It became even strong with state Shinto and the restoration.
Traditional Shinto, as it existed before Buddhism came, doesn't exist any more. And even when they tried separating Shinto and Buddhism as you say, it never really was completed, and resulted in problems for practises that did not have an equivalent in Shinto as a result of Shinto/Buddhism integration.

>That depends on what you mean by big. Buddhism was exclusively for the elite until just short of 1000 years ago.
The exact number of years is hardly relevant. The point is that Buddhism being big in Japan is not a modern thing by any metric.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512613
>Well, most of them died out. Can’t think of any ruling house that claims to be from a lineage of ancient rulers picked by the heavens.
Are you implying that the emperor is currently ruling?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512621
Unless we want to get autistic. With ruling house I’m including all the European houses in constitutional monarchies, so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512620
>Traditional Shinto, as it existed before Buddhism came, doesn't exist any more.
It never existed because it never had a specific name. Only with the coming of the other which was foreign did they have to identify what was native.

>I'm not saying Shinto is literally not a religion. Merely that it isn't a religion like someone from the west would envision a religion to be, as it is more just a general following of practises and beliefs, rather than a following of a scripture or set out rules.
But the point is that Japanese, most of them, don't envision religion in the same way. The west actually has lots of practicing not-really-believers, and people who pray to saints only when they need it. Lots of Christians are completely ignorant about scripture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512623
Kim Jong whatshisface

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512631
Kim Jong-Un? What are you trying to say? He’s an example of a de facto monarch dressed up as a republican leader or what?
Not sure how it relates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512626
>It never existed because it never had a specific name. Only with the coming of the other which was foreign did they have to identify what was native.
Whether or not it had a name is irrelevant. The practises still existed. The beliefs still existed. A lot of these were lost over time as the religion became intertwined with Buddhism.

>But the point is that Japanese, most of them, don't envision religion in the same way.
I never said they didn't. My original post merely said "Shinto isn't really a religion like you would consider other religions." You, in that case, referred to the OP. Not the Japanese people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512632
He has a divine right to rule. Also did you forget the emperor renounced his divinity at the end of WWII?

>>11512635
>Whether or not it had a name is irrelevant. The practises still existed. The beliefs still existed. A lot of these were lost over time as the religion became intertwined with Buddhism.
Not really. Practices that weren't found in other forms of Buddhism are basically Shinto. Lots of practices and tao-based magic, especially kami worship continued. Shinto was never an organized religion in ancient Japan.

>I never said they didn't. My original post merely said "Shinto isn't really a religion like you would consider other religions." You, in that case, referred to the OP. Not the Japanese people.
It could be if you stopped trying to preclude State Shinto as Shinto. It's not like there wasn't a gap between Jesus the man, the Gospels and the Council of Nicaea.

No one practices what Jesus, the man, actually preached and said. Stop trying to force some form of purism on Shinto as being that which predated Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512648
>Also did you forget the emperor renounced his divinity at the end of WWII?
The Japanese emperor never renounced the fact he was descended from Amaterasu. All he did was renounce the fact that he was a living god himself, which was never really a belief held in Japan in the first place. The emperor's role throughout history has pretty much always been ceremonial and religious based on the descent from a divine being, and still is.

There are many traditional practises that disappeared after the introduction of Buddhism. Just look at the Kofun Period and how they buried their dead. After Buddhism showed up however, burials in Japan have been Buddhist ever since. Modern Shinto has been heavily influenced and shaped by Buddhism over hundreds of years.
>Stop trying to force some form of purism on Shinto as being that which predated Buddhism.
I said pure Shinto doesn't really exist, in my original post, which it doesn't, because of the long historical intertwine with Buddhism. If you want to disagree with that, then fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512724
>The Japanese emperor never renounced the fact he was descended from Amaterasu
This bit really irks me since his lineage has no actual basis in ancient history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512724
>I said pure Shinto doesn't really exist, in my original post, which it doesn't, because of the long historical intertwine with Buddhism. If you want to disagree with that, then fine.
It exists as much as pure Christianity exists.

> All he did was renounce the fact that he was a living god himself, which was never really a belief held in Japan in the first place.
The issue was divine right to rule, not whether or not your grandma believes King James' Genesis word for word.

>There are many traditional practises that disappeared after the introduction of Buddhism. Just look at the Kofun Period and how they buried their dead. After Buddhism showed up however, burials in Japan have been Buddhist ever since. Modern Shinto has been heavily influenced and shaped by Buddhism over hundreds of years.
So? Stop trying to force your "traditional Shinto" and claiming it doesn't exist. It does. Naturally it has changed, like most things do over time as they interact with other things.

>This bit really irks me since his lineage has no actual basis in ancient history.
Considering Amaterasu doesn't actually exist you'd expect this to be a given.

Most forms of Christianity have been transformed by interactions with other religions to a lesser extent as well. Any religion that converts followers, or has followers subject to being converted has to find a way to reconcile the differences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512752
>Considering Amaterasu doesn't actually exist you'd expect this to be a given.
I would have less of a problem with it if the imperial lineage stretched back 500 years. But no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512757
It does. Being a direct descendant is not the same as being the legitimate oldest son of the prior legitimate oldest son. At a minimum, all they have to do is trace back their lineage to the sibling of the oldest known historical emperor.

[Anonymous No.]

Three most Shinto shrines

Inari shrine / God of the fox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inari_%C5%8Ckami

Tenman-gū / Politician of the 9 century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenjin_(kami)

Hachiman shrine / Emperor Ōjin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachiman

[Anonymous No.]

I trow coins at mountains for the kamis of my country,
A shame that I live in a barbaric country with no Shinto shrines.
How I wish there were book about this.....muuuuu

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511837
The common religion of Japan was practically a mix of Shinto and Buddhism since they were practiced pretty much side by side. However Japan decided to have an official and unique national religion, so they separated them.

Most people in Japan aren't religious. When they practice Shinto, its about culture identity and habits. People don't really think about Kami-sama watching over them, but if they are having a streak of bad luck they'll still visit a shrine or pray to their ancestors. Because Shinto is such an animistic religion based on equal relationships with local kamis (you help me I'll help you type dynamic) its really only practiced when people feel like they need something. Its sort of like a psychological salve to help with worry or give some illusion of control. People don't actually believe they are driving out an oni when they throw around soy beans, but the act of pretending in itself is a comfort. "I don't believe in spirits, but it would be cool if they existed."

People obsessed with religion are sort of on the level of people obsessed with the paranormal. There are actually new age cults in Japan as well. However the vast majority of people would not consider themselves religious. Also fun fact: Christian churches in Japan sing hymns in English. Its a bit hilarious to hear.

Basically if you ask them if they believe in God, they'll say no. But they'll still visit shrines. Its ingrained into their cultural identity and norms.

One of the reasons I like studying Japan so much is that the culture is basically a sort of applied atheism with spiritual benefits when needed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512974
Also I should mention that even though Buddhism and Shinto are officially separated in Japan, most people still dabble with both. One of my professors had a hilarious story about how a Buddhist priest got sick and couldn't perform a ceremony, so local Shinto priest did it for him. I love that.

Japan loves to incorporate foreign things and "japanify" it. Doesn't matter if its a religion or a cheeseburger.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm christian and I go to the shrines and pray every once and a while

[Anonymous No.]

2013 : not believing gods exist in rocks

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512993
Its pretty fun. Especially checking out the ema and whats written on them.

Where are you at? I stayed in Kanazawa for a bit.

[Anonymous No.]

thinly veiled shii thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513099
Not every thread has to secretly be about epic internet personalities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512031
Christmas is more akin to Valentine's Day than actual Valentine's Day in Japan. Valentine's Day with fried chicken instead of chocolates.

[Anonymous No.]

Here we go again.

First you need to understand that Japan was a country made of peasants living in huts. Just like Hawaii or Tahiti until very late in its history. Japanese people were clothed with loin clothes, their art was so crude it was almost painful, they used armor made of bamboo, their 'literature' was just very small snippet of text. Until circa 16th century, Japan was a tropical uncivilized island like any other - arguably even less civilized than some other. If not for some very good luck, their whole civilization would have been wiped from the face of earth by more advanced, civilized people.

Arguably, by all right of nature, it should have been wiped. When you see that 5 century BC China was more civilized than late 15 century AD Japan, you can't help but feel a little irony at work.

Shinto is the remnant of the animist belief of these people, governed by the master shaman of the tribes. When they (difficultly) civilized themselves, they kept their animist beliefs, renamed shaman into priest, tribes into clan, spirits into gods, and you have the Shinto.

[Anonymous No.]

Die, heathen scum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512990
Religions aren't mutually exclusive in Japan. You can read about it in the Bible about how stupid people worship false idols, various gods depending on region, different gods for different reasons.

Only Yahweh demands absolute fealty.

>Japan loves to incorporate foreign things and "japanify" it. Doesn't matter if its a religion or a cheeseburger.
This is stupid. Any religion that seeks to convert others is going to make concessions and adapt to the people it wants to convert in order to reconcile differences. Take for example, Christmas and Easter which are the two big Christian holidays Christians celebrate. All the associated traditions are essentially pagan in origin. Kosher dietary code was also scrapped because people didn't want to convert to not eat pork. Etc.

You should take Japanese religion class again, or find a different professor. Someone who actually has an education in the study of religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513178
>Religions aren't mutually exclusive in Japan

How on earth did you get that from his posts?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513196
I didn't. It's a statement of fact. I made it.

[None !YJPPtbIx3A No.]

Shinto is cool

[Anonymous No.]

I practice Shinto by printing out talismans and sticking them to doors and windows to ward off youkai and spirits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513778
So that's how they work around that.

I was about to say how it would be kind of pointless to try and rinse your hands like that as you will still have to hold the handle with a previously dirty hands and the handle would just continue to dirty your previously rinsed hand. So I take it they saw this dilemma and decided it was ok to pour the water down the handle as well as on your hands to help keep the handle rinsed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511938
You sound like an insipid man-child with that kind of attitude.

[Anonymous No.]

Hitler Shrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514001
it's funny because westerners would actually believe you

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512532
MARISA EATS BREAD


TIME FOR JAPANESE BREAD OTAKU GENERAL

WHERE MY BREAD BROS AT?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513178
I think you are approaching all of this from a Christian viewpoint and its getting some weird results.

>Religions aren't mutually exclusive in Japan.
Where did that come from? Anyways most polytheistic religions like to hedge their bets. Hell you can see that with the Visogoths in 400s, who were both Norse pagans and Christians.

>Only Yahweh demands absolute fealty.
This is true for most monotheistic religions though.

> Any religion that seeks to convert others is going to make concessions and adapt to the people it wants to convert in order to reconcile differences
I agree with that, but don't see how you are having a conflict with Japan adopting things. Look at Xmas. Its a great economic boosting holiday that people love playing up. However Xmas there is about commercialized Santa, not Christ. Japan adopts the things it likes, buffet style.

>You should take Japanese religion class again, or find a different professor. Someone who actually has an education in the study of religion.
My anthropology professor who is fluent in Japanese, married to a woman from Osaka, and spends half his time in Japan would disagree with that. You could challenge me since I was merely an exchange student in Kanazawa with a minor in Japanese language if you wanted, but not him.

You are really all over the place, man. Get it together.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514120
fkn rekt dekt and shrekt

[Anonymous No.]

I read a couple of books about it. I like the use of rice, the tiered altars and the asymmetric floorplan of shrines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514001
Evisceration and torture shrine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514120
>I think you are approaching all of this from a Christian viewpoint and its getting some weird results.
I'm not. People who imply it's weird to dabble in both or think Shinto is only a set of traditions because people who practice Shinto also practice Buddhism are.

>Where did that come from? Anyways most polytheistic religions like to hedge their bets. Hell you can see that with the Visogoths in 400s, who were both Norse pagans and Christians.
That's my point. Hence my point about being able to read about it in the bible. You're the one that pointed it out as unusual.

>This is true for most monotheistic religions though.
Most (by number of practitioners) which believe in Yahweh. Saying "only" Yahweh is a hyperbole.

>I agree with that, but don't see how you are having a conflict with Japan adopting things. Look at Xmas. Its a great economic boosting holiday that people love playing up. However Xmas there is about commercialized Santa, not Christ. Japan adopts the things it likes, buffet style.

Implying it's because the Japanese love Japanizing things is stupid though. It's not like Christmas means Christ instead of Santa in most of the civilized world anyways.

i.e. >>Japan loves to incorporate foreign things and "japanify" it. Doesn't matter if its a religion or a cheeseburger.

Clearly you didn't understand the class at all or you purposefully came across as a stereotyping idiot. You have to remember the benchmark for religious is many countries is going to Christmas and Easter Mass, and maybe saying grace,

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514570
What point are you trying to make about religion and Shinto? I think you've gone a very confusing tangent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514587
1) Outside of countries whose dominant religion is monotheistic, it is not unusual for people to "dabble" in multiple religions.

It is not unusual and unique of Shinto. It is not unusual and unique of Japan. What is unusual about Japan is a 1st work country without a dominant monotheistic religion.

2) Implying the Japanification of religion is solely or primarily due to the Japanese love of Japanification is a silly stereotype which is not well supported in the case of religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514609
1st world*

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514587
It's kopipe or a bot or something, this thread's not supposed to be anything like a religion "debate."

[Anonymous No.]

If I was born in Japan, I'd be Shinto. I see no rasin to be atheist.

Clap at a shrine every year and I'd be a fisherman life style.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514044
marisa eats dog food

get it right, fag

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514609
When I said "dabble" I was referring to how most people in Japan practice both Shinto and Buddhist customs, because the two religions have coincided so long together that they are ingrained in the culture. That's the cultural custom. I don't mean they are going to dabble with stuff like Christianity.

For the sake of argument I think your generalization of polytheism is wrong. Most Hindu people don't dabble with other religions. However for many cases I'll agree. Especially with Catholicism in Africa.

Also Japan would have been a 3rd world country along side India and China had the US to help make it the economic power it is today. Being a (comparatively) smaller island made that all the easier.

Modern Japan does absorb foreign culture and put a spin on it. J-Pop and hiphop. Ganguro. Burgers with eggs on them. Go back farther. The Meiji Restoration. Hair styles. Class and govt restructuring. Go way back. Kanji (thanks China.) Rope used in Shinto (which can be tracked all the way back to rope being pressed against clay pots for design, thanks Korea.)

I'm not saying Japan will Japanify everything. Far from it. Again, when I said religion I was clearly referring back to earlier when I said Japan incorporated Buddhism. But they will use aesthetics from other cultures and play with them. Christmas is a romantic holiday with cakes. Halloween is a fun time to dress up. Hell Native American dream catchers were popular about 20 years ago because it got mixed up with the Ainu fad. The fact that Japan will commercialize things seemingly irrelevant to its native culture is what makes the interesting contrast, and since WW2 a lot of those influences have been from America.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516314
Adoption isn't the same as Japanifying. You're stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516323
It's pretty retarded to assume that people will know what you mean by "Japanifying" when it's not even a word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516327
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanification

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516333
>>11516327
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/japanize
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Japanize

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516337
So what's the big difference between being adopted and given a Japanese spin, and being Japanized?

[Anonymous No.]

JANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY why is this thread still up?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511853
They don't go around say God doesn't exists. They're just mostly not religious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514044
She ate bread, but not on a daily basis or that often

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

From a Japanese. BAKA!!! Isn't a fucking religion!!!! Only a cultural institution from the the age were bureaucrats aren't created. All in 4chan and in occident are plainly wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517967
Boom

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516314
>Most Hindu people don't dabble with other religions
Because Hindiusm itself is a fuckton of religions combined.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517967
I don't get how people think science and religion are mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518016
because they are, honestly

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518016
Because one relies on proof, the other relies on faith for their world view. If you're a true practitioner of most religions you can't call yourself a scientist.

I think most people in the western world (U.S mostly) that call themselves Christians don't know much about the religion, but "practice" it because of peer pressure and ignorance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518050
>>11518053
Because you can still use science to attempt to support the possibility God exists. There is a lot of evidence to support the Bible and in a lot of case its perfectly normal science. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean the practices used to support it are wrong.

Not that I believe in God or anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518053
The thing is, there's no reason why God isn't a valid reason for phenomena to occur. Until science proves quite literally everything, God is a valid theory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518111
>>11518088
What legitimate proof is there of a god? The existence of a god is as believable as the tooth fairy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511940
Build a tower so big that it goes into the sun, and then use the elevator to go into the Sun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518118
The world is a proof that "god" exists. What god is depends from you.
I like to think it's a concept rather than a living being.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518805
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518811
And then there's this asshole who claims to know what god is, and believes he's right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518813
Claiming that the existence of the world is proof of a god is a silly theory that would hold no value in a scientific evaluation which is the whole point of this argument.

[Anonymous No.]

You know what would be really nifty? If the next time they rebuild the Izumo shrine, they remake at its original height.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516375
it's made-up, don't take it seriously

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518118
The tooth fairy may not exist, but I still got $$$ for my teeth by following the belief. What are you getting from being a faggot?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11519211
You're free to believe what you want if that makes you happier, but that doesn't make it any more true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518118
1. God is the most perfect ('the greatest') being conceivable.
2. It is more perfect ('greater') to exist than not to exist.
3. Therefore, God must exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11519278
How was this ever considered a proper, academic argument?

It's the sort of thing a 12-year-old would come up with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11519327
woohoo

oh wow, this thread went into full "debate" meltdown, nice work guys

this is why we can't have nice things

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518012
All polytheistic religions are. And different regions tend to focus on specific gods in Hinduism. But they don't 'dabble' in other religions like Islam for example.

>>11518088
That is a gross generalization. What in the Bible are you wanting to support? Also I doubt science will prove an invisible sky daddy who looks like Zeus exists. Some sort of energy we've yet to detect? Maybe. But not Yahweh.

>>11518111
"God did it" fails because it lacks the burden of proof. The world isn't "if you can't show otherwise, then God is the answer." This isn't Umineko, you can't magic away bullshit.

Honestly, we try to discuss culture and some 12 year old christfag and a fedora atheist fuck it all up.

Pray if you believe in MODS, for if they be merciful they will wipe away this scourge thread from the boards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11513778
You can't drink the water?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531030
It looks like you can drink it out of your hand, but not directly from the cup thingy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11519327
>>11519278
It wasn't, for long.
Haven't you heard of Guanilo's "perfect island" example?

[Anonymous No.]

Guys.
Listen, guys.

Can't we just ignore the question of does God exists? Can't we all answer it with "I don't care"?

[Anonymous No.]

>Worship of Inari spread across Japan in the Edo period, and by the 16th century Inari had become the patron of blacksmiths and the protector of warriors. Inari is a popular figure in both Shinto and Buddhist beliefs in Japan. More than one-third (32,000) of the Shinto shrines in Japan are dedicated to Inari. Modern corporations, such as cosmetic company Shiseido, continue to revere Inari as a patron kami, with shrines atop their corporate headquarters.
>Inari's foxes, or kitsune, are pure white and act as his/her messengers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531067

Apatheist plz go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514005
only ignorant westerners

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517154
>Japansese

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531030
>>11531031
It's just for rinsing your mouth. Don't drink.

[Anonymous No.]

mikos are grat

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518050
The whole history of the Catholic church is there to prove you wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

Can we break into the Ise Shrine and steal the magic mirror?

[Anonymous No.]

the influx of threads like these remind me of when /b/ began going downhill in 2006 after every thread became a religion or nationality debate

>>11545236
please stop necrobumping with worthless spam

[Anonymous No.]

YO Actually in Japan person here. Not gonna bother reading the thread because faggots. BASICALLY Shinto is deeply ingrained into daily life more as a tradition than a way of life. Most Japanese people are extremely agnostic and don't really give a shit if gods are real or not, but they feel it's generally respectful and comforting to act as if they do at shrines. This is why Japanese people who convert to other religions still visit Shinto shrines; it's not really much of a religion as it is a tradition and a part of life.

Buddhism is pretty popular among the actually religious, Christianity and monotheism in general isn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11533756
No, pretty much the majority will fall for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512990
Cool

[Anonymous No.]

>>11537556
> Be 17
> Flew to Japan and went to a big-ass shrine.
> Saw a pool of water with that wooden ladle
> Thought it was for drinking for I was an idiot
> Drank it straight from the ladle
> People laughed at me

If I drank it, what would happen or what do they believe would happen to me? Bad luck? A curse?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551014
You'd just be silly and uncouth for drinking untreated water (depending on location.)

When I was in Kyoto I visited Kiyomizu-dera. Not as amazing as anime specials make it out to be. The temple is cool, but if you look out you'll see roads and stores right next to it. Not exactly tranquil and isolated (btw if you want that, check out the shrine at the top of Miyajima.) Anyways, there is a waterfall at the bottom of it, and if you pay some amount you can get a ladle full. Well I watched the people doing it, and one of which was a fat bald American who pretty much dumped the water on himself and roared with delight. I call him Walrus Man, and I hate him.

Don't feel too bad. You could have been a Walrus Man instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11545340
Nice cribbing from Wikipedia, pal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553023
Still better than kinkakuji. Inari shrine was pretty neat

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551014
>Bad luck? A curse?
Pretty much. Only gods can use the middle of a staircase or drink the water, so it's like a big fuck you to the shrine's god. Certainly nullified any praying you did.

>>11553023
> Not as amazing as anime specials make it out to be.
Yes it is.

> Not exactly tranquil and isolated
Since when was it supposed to be? It's huge. It's about being immersed in the glory of the seasons. Tranquil and isolated describes any hodunk rural shrine. It gets close right after it rains though.

>check out the shrine at the top of Miyajima
Of course, it's an equally unique Shrine except it isn't in the middle of Kyoto.

>>11553079
Kinkakuji is terrible. I don't understand why it's even in the tour books. It's about as interesting as the golden turd.

Inari is amazing if you go during dawn or dusk. The low angle of the light, and if you're lucky mist does wonders interacting with the repeated forms of the gates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553137
Picture of kinkakuji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11537556
What do you think they do with all of those after the event is over/it gets full? Just throw them away? How sad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11511850
>no bullying
That is racist anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553137
Damn it. So that's why my months after I have been to Japan have been so terrible. Family issues, relationship issues, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553240
Well, I think they stay up there for months, sometimes up to a year. You've got to move on from your old prayers sometime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553137
>Since when was it supposed to be? It's huge. It's about being immersed in the glory of the seasons. Tranquil and isolated describes any hodunk rural shrine. It gets close right after it rains though.

The entire point of a shrine is house deities, and EVERY shrine worth anything immerses itself in nature to create a sort of spiritual envelop or protective barrier from the regular world. Shrines are meant to seem tranquil and separate. Uchi and soto, the very basis of the social dynamics of Japan. And I'm not talking about rural shrines, I mean any shrine. Hell the one I visited in Kanazawa was directly off a major road, but it has a path leading away from it and trees blocking the view, which created a barrier Ginkaku-ji is elevated but still did a great job.

But when you get to Kiyomizu-dera and climb up to the top, you can see the road and houses right there. Immersion broken. I know they can't help it, but its still a problem.

This image is misleading, and there is a reason why 99% of images of the upper part of the shrine are at this angle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11555443
>The entire point of a shrine is house deities, and EVERY shrine worth anything immerses itself in nature to create a sort of spiritual envelop or protective barrier from the regular world.
>Kiyomizu-dera
Kiymizu-dera is a tera. Please stop pretending to know what you are talking about!

[Anonymous No.]

Whoops. Yeah Kiyomizu-dera is Buddhist temple, not a Shinto shrine. That was a pretty bad fuck up. Sometimes the stuff all blends together too much. The clash of seeing modern roads and houses is still a problem though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11555598
It overlooks the city. The same as it did when it was first built. They didn't complain the buildings didn't look old fashioned enough back then. And Kyoto was a happening place when it was built. You got yourself worked up about expectations that don't even apply, and that's why it was such a downer.

[Anonymous No.]

Why is this weeaboo shit allowed on /jp/?

[None !YJPPtbIx3A No.]

>>11553865
Japanese gods actually don't get angry about something like that. I think your trouble is a blessing in disguise. If you didn't visit the shrine, it could have been worse.

[Anonymous No.]

So I just learned from Dr. what's his face, my Asian philosophies professor, that "Pure Land" is the largest Buddhist sect in Japan, and not Zen. He said that Zen is less popular because it's seen as being somewhat elitist. And what's up with that?

Also apparently Pure Land goes further than most Mahayanist sects in regarding the Buddha as a sort of semi-divine savior figure, rather than just a teacher.

Do you know anything about Pure Land /jp/? I just know that they chant "Amida" a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11557531
> So I just learned from Dr. what's his face, my Asian philosophies professor, that "Pure Land" is the largest Buddhist sect in Japan, and not Zen. He said that Zen is less popular because it's seen as being somewhat elitist. And what's up with that?
Common knowledge. Zen as we know it is known for being the most uniquely Japanese and being tied to tea ceremony and Japanese aesthetics.

>Also apparently Pure Land goes further than most Mahayanist sects in regarding the Buddha as a sort of semi-divine savior figure, rather than just a teacher.
It's dumbed down, like Christianity and Christ worship in many countries.

>Do you know anything about Pure Land /jp/? I just know that they chant "Amida" a lot.
Pretty much. The theological details are different, but it shares a lot with layman Christianity.

1) There is a heaven and hell afterlife based on sin in this life
2) You're fucked, you can't get into heaven by yourself
3) You need to worship a savior figure for salvation
4) Pray, pray, make your problems go away
5) It's easy to get into heaven as long as you have faith

It's a commoner form of religion and utilizes scare tactics and a relatively easy way into eternal afterlife. It wards away demons and helps you get what you want, as long as you participate or help spread this viral religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11557812
The Buddhist heavens and hells aren't permanent abodes for the dead though.

[Anonymous No.]

http://books.google.com.br/books/about/Religion_in_Japan.html?id=VHJsQtrps64C&redir_esc=y

How good is this book, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11559570
>Cambridge University Press

Sounds good enough to me.