/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Did you do your reps yet?

[Anonymous No.]

Reps bore me to treats. Just going for it and reading Japanese works a lot better in retention, if not letting you learn as many words as quickly. Plus, you get the benefit of having already read whatever it was you were learning for, so if you quit, it's okay!

[Anonymous No.]

I can keep up with my reps but I haven't done any new kanji or vocabs in over two months. It's over /jp/...

[Anonymous No.]

What's the point of doing reps when you can hire a qt jap girl as your personal translator?

[Anonymous No.]

I don't feel like it, i'll just do it tommorow before the the timer goes off and adds more

[Anonymous No.]

My Anki deck has about 20,600 learnt cards (not including common words) and is about 3 years old now. I don't doubt the benefit from it as it's allowed me to gain a native level of Japanese vocabulary rapidly but it's kind of a chore to do every day so lately I've just been letting it build up to a few hundred cards and then getting them out of the way in one sitting.

[Anonymous No.]

I just bought a Japanese 3DS and I learn vocabulary through playing games on that. It's fun and it's motivating to know that I blew all of my money on importing a console that can only play Japanese games and if I don't use it then the money went to waste so that keeps me diligent.

[Anonymous No.]

I think I'm going to cram some more Japanese proverbs for a bit. Along with 四字熟語　they're a good way to impress natives.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510596
>impress natives
That requires talking to them anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11512140
There are 3 in my apartment right now.

[Anonymous No.]

not yet. I have a cold and I feel tired. maybe I'll do them later

[Anonymous No.]

I stopped a few weeks after these threads banished from /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

reinstalling now.

[Anonymous No.]

Reps when I wake up and then eroge all day.

[Anonymous No.]

Didn't these threads disappear all of a sudden?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510548
So the secret to learning japanese is to know japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514924
No, he just neglected to mention the endless dictionary consultation that you have to do at the beginning.

[Anonymous No.]

i give the fuck up fuck this fucking language ive wasted 3 fucking years and ive learned nothing im getting sick and tried of being beaten down with nothing to show for it

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514961
In 3 years you should be at least one step from being fluent, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514968
yea i get it im a piece of shit thanks

[Anonymous No.]

A friend recommended this to me a month or so ago and its great for hirigana and katakana at the moment.

Using it on android currently, is there a way to have it alarm when you have cards due? Or perhaps put a notification when they're due

[Anonymous No.]

I don't like Anki. I could never find a deck that really worked for me. I wish there was a Wanikani deck because I like the way they present information but it's so expensive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11515197
>I don't like Anki. I could never find a deck that really worked for me
Make your own. That's what I did.

Just open up excel, stick in a list of kanji and definitions or vocab or whatever you need and arrange it in whatever way you need it and convert it to an anki deck.

[Anonymous No.]

I'll never forget that WOMAN who is FONDLING her CHILD

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510536
>I did my rapes OP

[Anonymous No.]

>>11514980
You're a dumb piece of shit is what you are.

[Anonymous No.]

There was a point where I manually entered thousands of words into Anki and did reps every day, but now I find that words take far less effort to remember than they used to, so I stopped using it. Even though I could probably learn at a much faster rate if I still used Anki, I just get fucking tired of pausing every 5 minutes to enter that one word I don't know when I understand 95% of it anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

What decks would you recommend for a beginner? I was using Memrise until they broke it with the site update and then I went without reppage for half a year or so.

I tried RTK, but for some reason it presents the word instead of the kanji. It also doesn't list readings, which bugs me, but that's due to the method itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516071
>but for some reason it presents the word instead of the kanji.
Because that's how you really learn to recognize each kanji. From the keyword, you remember it, write it, and then check your answer. Otherwise there might be a lot of kanji you don't really know fully, just can recognize. RTK is partly for writing, not just reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516095
>Otherwise there might be a lot of kanji you don't really know fully, just can recognize. RTK is partly for writing, not just reading.
Okay, that makes sense. I wasn't really focused on writing until recently, so I guess I should just stick with it. It would help if the deck could present stroke order.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516100
Try this
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/191833583

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516103
Excellent. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510548
You should make your own deck. Truth is, you rarely remember the sentence or word today if you learned it on yesterday. Pre-made decks bore me and I think they are quite useless. It is much more fun to review words/sentences I have learned from actually utilizing the language. Some of my cards have great memories.

[Anonymous No.]

Learning Kanji with Anki is a pain in the ass because sometimes the furigana is in the wrong place. The first one is fine but the rest is on the wrong word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11516095
I find that this isn't really true. I've been learning kanji for a long time now, but while my repetitions with Anki are usually around 90% correct, I often struggle when trying to go the opposite direction from kanji to keyword. While I am aware that this direction isn't as useful most of the time, it makes me question how valid Heisig's recommendation to only study keyword->kanji actually is.

[Anonymous No.]

This question has probably been asked a gorillion times on /jp/ but has anyone here actually been able to self teach themselves to fluency, or at least able to play vn's and vidya with relative ease?

How long did it take?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517485
http://visualnovelaer.fuwanovel.org/2011/12/how-to-read-visual-novels-in-japanese-in-2-years-time-step-by-step-guide-%E2%80%95-learn-to-read-through-vn-or-anime/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517485
Many have. Self teaching isn't as hard as people think, you just need routines (which is why rep-anon keeps reminding you to do your reps every single day). Without good routines, you could spend a decade without even getting to fluency, assuming you won't just frustrated and give up completely. With good routines and a willingness to invest a lot of time, you could get to a decent level within a year. For most people, including non-NEETs, 2-3 years should be realistic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517485
No. It's impossiburu. Nipponjin have masterfully designed their language so as to keep baka gaijin like you from being able to understand it. So you might as well not even try, because you're just setting yourself up for daishippai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517624
How can you say that when you're almost fluent yourself?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517638
watashi wa nipponjin nandesukeredo

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517496
2 years? That's kinda laughable.

[Anonymous No.]

I didn't do my Anki reps today /a/!
Enjoy being tied to Anki 4 Life faggots >3

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517999
Seriously. You can do it in 30 days with Pimsleur.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518069
Reading the wikipedia article it mentions that it also helps reading, but yet its apparently strictly audio. Am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518013
>/a/
>>>/a/
pls go

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517106

keyword -> kanji is bad.

appropriate japanese/english keywords -> kanji is good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518197
I am in /a/, this is the weaponized section of /a/ right?

[Anonymous No.]

No, not in a few months. Please help.

[Anonymous No.]

What rules do you use for yourself when you're doing anki to determine what rating you should give cards when you answer them?

I feel like I'm possibly being too hard on myself since I end up with an average of 300+ reviews each day and I end up spending over three hours on them. So much of my time and energy goes to anki that I don't get to put much time into trying to reading VNs or do grammar study.

I'm thinking that this might be because I almost never click the "Good" or "Very good" buttons and I always click either "Again" or "Hard" so everything ends up piling up into giant stacks and none of the cards ever mature. How well should you know something before you can mark it as Good or Very good though?

I don't want to become addicted to anki any more than I already am, but I don't want to be lazy either and neglect my studies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518438
I'm not exactly sure, I usually hit good if I get in in around 5 seconds, hard if I really have to concentrate. If I get it wrong its cool because it gets recirculated and ill see it more often. Ill do very good if I'm like, yeah I've seen this shit and will remember it forever.

[Anonymous No.]

Pretty much given up on trying to learn new languages it's a waste of time if you don't use them


and Japan is one country and the only one that speaks it's language it's not really useful for anything outside of that country

You've got stuff like German for engineering, French and Latin for science, Chinese for business, Spanish if you live in the US for immigrants but Japanese?

Sure it's a fun language but in the in it's not worth learning it seems, they're always be another weeb that translate that doujin or video game for you so why bother?

also language translaters exits sure they're not very good but they'll give you a general idea of what you need to know

Japanese is a fun and at times interesting language but it's just not really worth being fluent or even learning it

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518452
>French and Latin for science

What? English is the language of science. Sure you aren't in the wrong century?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518452

>but Japanese?

Japanese is the ideal language to be paired with English for otaku or hikikomori.

Normies don't see the value in it because they have their regular jobs, but you can use crowdsourcing sites like Gengo to do translations and easily make over minimum wage with a tiny amount of effort.

It's one of the few ways to make a living without leaving the house or talking to anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518462

Canis lupus familiaris sure as fuck doesn't sound like any English i've heard are YOU sure you're in the right century?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518438
You're probably grading yourself too hard. Even if you grade a card very good, it will come back soon enough and if you can't remember it, then that is when you grade it hard. Let Anki do most of the work for you. That is what its designed for. Also what type of deck are we talking? If its vocabulary, you are most likely taking too long for each card. Vocabulary recognition should take less than 5 seconds per card.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518452
Who gives a shit about all of those languages you're listing as "useful"? You're the one who determines what's useful to yourself. I prefer learning a language for the sake of fun than learning it to have a better job. Also, japanese is very different from english, and there are dozens of untranslated content flying out there. Just because you're too incompetent to learn a language doesn't mean it's useless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518438
I only use "Hard" or "Good" most of the time. I use "Again" if something is going over 1 month with the "Hard" or "Good" option and I'm still having problems with it. I find myself using "Hard" quite often just so I will see the card again in 1 or 2 months instead of 3 or 4, even If I am pretty good with that card.

When I first started I used to use "Again" most of the time and almost ended up in your situation, but I stopped doing that before it got too bad. Maybe you need to stop adding cards for a few days or weeks and bring your daily reviews to a more manageable number and only use "Again" very rarely.

[Anonymous No.]

Is it possible to adjust the rep roll over clock on anki so that I can tell it when a new day starts rather than having it automatically do it at 11:00?

I have a free-running sleep cycle so my sleep is all over place and some days I wake up 6:00PM while other days I sleep for 15 hours and wake up at 1:00AM. I don't think of days in a 24 hour sense so it makes it very annoying to keep up with anki since if I happen to wake up late then I have to cram really quickly before the 11:00 mark or I'll get two days of reviews smacking me at once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518475

煩い!
If I determine that nihongo is useless for me than it is, it has nothing to do with intellect you fucking degenerate it's that it's useless I just fucking told you why, don't fucking tell me it's not and that you have to be Einstein to understand it you filthy cock sucking bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit this thread is horrible. Just follow this and be fluent enough to consume written media in less than a year (depending on how much time you put in).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518485
Tools -> Preferences -> Next day starts at x hours past midnight

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518497

Oh, is there any other way? I used that one before about 4 months ago when I was sick and I needed to take a day off and now I'm maxed out at the 23 hour mark, so I guess I'm technically three days behind when the reps roll over.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and do three days worth of reps at midnight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518473

What have single Latin words to do with learning a whole language? Are scientific works about wolves written in Latin? No, they aren't. French or Latin will help you fuckall with science.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518513
Don't know any other way. Good Idea to just clear it all so you have the option to change it in the future, otherwise it will stay a burden and only get worse if you need to miss another day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518550

If you don't know what Canis is than you won't understand any creature that belongs in that family without someone telling you what it is in English similar in a way to a lot of medicines have French derived names, yes knowning them will help with those fields in Science

[Anonymous No.]

A NEW DAY HAS BEGUN
IT IS TIME TO START YOUR REPETITIONS!

BACK TO WORK AND DO YOUR BEST

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518438
First off, you're taking too long for recognition cards and if you're doing production you're taking too long AND without anything that will help you distinguish between similar cards (such as through context) you'll find reviews very confusing down the road unless you answer every possible answer and that will make your reviews take even longer.

Hit easy for cards that you get the answer immediately and without strain.
Hit good for cards that you get the answer within 5 seconds or less.
Hit hard for cards you get the answer within 10 seconds or less. You might even want to reduce these times.
Hit again for those you get wrong and for those you don't get an answer within the specified time, even if you feel that you could have gotten it right or that it's at the tip of your tongue.
Properly restudy those you get wrong immediately. This is why you should have things such as examples and usage notes/tips in your answer portion. This should take less than 5 seconds. If it takes longer take note of it and study it outside anki or use the cram feature for leeches. Use cram sparingly. The same thing with Anki. It shouldn't occupy the majority of your study time except for when acquiring initial core vocabulary or maintaining your level during a break.

[Anonymous No.]

Stop adjusting the roll-over time it's not meant for that. Anki just isn't built for sleep cycles that isn't 24 hours multiples. Just do your reps regularly in 2, 3, 4 etc days or deal with the extra whenever you have it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518789

>acquiring initial core vocabulary

How many words do you need to learn before you can say that you have the core vocabulary covered? 2,000?

[Anonymous No.]

Sorry for asking here as the DJT is down now.

Can I ask if there is a special kana only vocab deck? I am doing corePLUS but am really getting raped on the kana only words like

いつも
かつて

etc. T-thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518856
When you find slogging through text tolerable and productive. That could be anywhere from 0 (Did this with french) to 10K if you're particularly stupid or obsessive. Just try reading for a few days with or without tools as early as possible. Take note that being able to read does not mean that it is necessary to abandon doing reviews or adding new words. You could stop using SRS so long as you regularly consume enough material to not forget the words but for some words that might mean needing to read hundreds of pages and for hours everyday. Good for you if you can do so, but if you can't then just use SRS. That's what it's for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518932
Because Japanese is known to be only written in kana, right? If you're going for spoken fluency only, you might as well go for EXPERT Japanese lessons like Rosetta Stones.

[Anonymous No.]

Yes I did, everyday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518942
>only written in kana
No dipshit.
What I was asking for was a vocab deck for the words that don't have kanji. For words that are kana ONLY. I'm sorry, I thought I made that abundantly clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518942
I think you’re misunderstanding his intention. Because lots of these training decks are aimed towards kanji remembering, he keeps forgetting kana only words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518950

holy fug
this bully is out of control

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518950
Sorry, the only thing you made abundantly clear is that you are a moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518932
何時も is not a kana-only word, and neither is 嘗て.

True kana-only words exist, but they're usually modern slang and not ubiquitous long-established terms like this.

>But I won't ever use the kanji version!

...is what you probably want to say, but consider this: as you seem to already know, kanji makes words easier to remember, and by learning it, you're learning the spelling (and therefore the part you will be using) in the process.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518621
That would be like saying those morons that only know the meaning of words like "kawaii" or "onii chan" know japanese.
Knowing the meaning of a few terms isn't like knowing the whole language. Latin grammar won't help you at all in science or biology, since you'll never have to decline the word "canis" or make full latin sentences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518856
smart.fm or whatever it was called had those core2k and core6k decks. I found that core2k was pretty useful, and after that the diminishing returns became apparent, as the vocabulary got a lot more situational. Never completely finished 6k, it just started feeling too useless around 4-5k, so I guess 6k is the point where you really want to move over to reading exclusively.

You should note, though, that it's usually core vocabulary within a specific type of medium, usually newspapers. And learning the core newspaper vocabulary won't help you with (most) eroge. Main reason I quit before getting to 6k, would be more worthwhile to finish it if I did read newspapers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11519221
>smart.fm

I miss that site, it was like a sexier version of Anki.

[Anonymous No.]

Depression isn't very good for studying, who would've thought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520591
anki for mobile

only $9.99 on your smartphone :)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520367
What the fuck is this garbage?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520593
No it's not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510548
Pretty much this. If most of what you read is digital text, you can use online dictionaries if you are stumped. Sites like Tangorin even show each kanji's detail when looking up a jukugo so there you go, you learn a new word while memorizing the individual kanji.
There are also a couple of furigana-inserting sites around the web to help you read pretty much any Japanese site, so you'll get used to the meaning and the readings all the while reading naive text within a natural context.
I don't get how in 2013 rote memorization can be seen as benefical, especially if separated from sentence reading. It's a drudge, it's alienating, it gives you no mid-term satisfaction to help you through your studies. No wonder many people give up.
You're studying so you can read Japanese text at a decent speed. This is not a text where you have to get all answers right all the time. Looking things up on the dictionary as you go through your own business is absolutely okay, you know...

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520832
But doesn't it take a long time? I mean, searching kanji by radicals, putting them together, and going on... Seems like a very tiring method for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510548

Pretty much this. If most of what you read is digital text, you can use online dictionaries if you are stumped.
Sites like Tangorin even show each kanji's detail when looking up a jukugo so there you go, you learn a new word while memorizing the individual kanji.
There are also a couple of furigana-inserting sites around the web to help you read pretty much any Japanese site, so you'll get used to the meaning and the on/kun all the while reading native text within a natural context.
I don't get how in 2013 rote memorization can be seen as benefical, especially if separated from sentence reading. It's a drudge, it's alienating, it gives you no mid-term satisfaction to help you through your studies. No wonder many people give up. You're studying so you can read Japanese text at a decent speed.
This is not a quiz show where you have to get all answers right all the time. Looking things up on the dictionary as you go through your own business is absolutely okay, you know...

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520591
>平成25年
>:being this much of a pleb

[Anonymous No.]

>>11520838
Meh. Strawmanning never helps your case, unless you just want to feel better about yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11521535
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

I was busy this morning, so I did my reps later at night. It went horribly and I feel dumb as hell.
Never studying late ever again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11522497
Someone on /a/ probably.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517485
yes I have. not much point though unless you have a college degree. I pretty much was a neet so I had a shit ton of free time(and still do) and so now I am fluent. however I now work as a cashier at a supermarket and my Japanese ability has absolutely no use what so ever, except I do fan translations sometimes for idol videos, but thats it. Fuckin pisses me off, cant move to Japan, cant get a good job here. What was the point of learning Japanese I often think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525491

Did you learn Japanese to have better job prospects? That's the worst thing you can do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525491
for fun you fucking tard

[Anonymous No.]

I'm about to do my reps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525698
I hope it goes well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510563
Arin?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525777

Jason?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518409
Fuck off

>>/youtube/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525732
Just finished my reps. Trying to write down the kanji is slowing me down. But I think it's worth it because I'm starting to forget some already when I'm only in the 200s.

[Anonymous No.]

I just finished copy-pasting in kanji meanings into my vocab deck for 6,000 cards.

I think I have arthritis now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11525857
I write kanji because I find it to be entertaining. It makes it much easier to go through them, since I write each one of them down over 40 times, and depending on how complex they are, this takes like, 1~2 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11527015
You have a weird idea of entertainment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11510536
i'll start tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.]

I always see people discussing the JLPT test, but has anyone here tried the kanji kentei test?
I know it is more useless than the JLPT, but kanji is the coolest part of Japanese.

The sample questions are too hard.
http://www.kanken.or.jp/kanken/outline/data/outline_degree_example_1m.pdf
This shit looks like Chinese with some kana randomically placed. I can only identify some radicals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11528553
>kanji is the coolest part of Japanese
You mean Chinese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11527015
Why so many times? 2-3 times should suffice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11528584
Chinese use too many kanji with too many strokes and shitty curves.
It is cool only in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11527138
Some people have fun mutilating themselves. What's wrong with liking calligraphy? I find learning how to write kanji an interesting activity mainly because of how beautiful the result is.

>>11528588
Indeed, but I find it easier to memorize when I write each one of them at least 20 to 50 times. Choosing 40 is just because it fits well in my notebook, probably.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11528625
行書と草書、どっちが好き？

[Anonymous No.]

>>11529024
僕の漢字の書き方は行書的なのでこの方が好きです。

[Anonymous No.]

I have recently restarted my efforts towards japanese, doing a quick review of the kata and hiragana wasn't a problem since I could just do them all in one sitting but I don't know how to handle the kanji.

While I remember (or partially recognize some of them) starting where I left off on Anki feels wrong and a bit overwhelming but I'm not too sure on restarting either.

Ive only done about 120+ kanji so it shouldn't be a big deal but I'm concerned that I might "sabotage the method" by restarting.

Should I restart my kanji from scratch again or should I just try and review with my current anki session? Alternatives are also welcomed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530793
Why would you learn kanji individually like that? Sounds like a waste of time to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530793
I'd recommend starting over and doing maybe 30-50 kanji a day until you've caught up, then start doing it in a normal tempo. By the way, which method do you use, Heisig's, KanjiDamage or something else?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530872
>>11530874
I should've probably clarified, I'm sleep deprived at the moment.

I'm using an Anki called JPN 2000 Core Sentences or something.Part 1 of 10 I believe. It gives you a kanji, a definition and an example sentence and shuffles them around.

Something like this
Ex.
彼の日本語のレベルは私と同じ位だ。

かれ の にほんご の れべる は わたし と おなじ くらい だ

子供 - Child

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530895
I see. Unless you feel very confident in all the sentences/kanji I'd reccomend starting over. It'll help you get a habit for doing reps again, and also some repetition will help you out in the long run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530895
Why does it give you a kanji that isn't used in the sentence?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530930

Do you mean 位? I saw a couple of times in eroge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530973
I think he means a semi-random
>子供 - Child
at the end of your example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530995

Yeah. Why give an example sentence and not use the kanji somewhere in it? Why are you expected to know 彼, 位 and 同じ but 子供 requires a definition?

[Anonymous No.]

How many reps of eroge have you guys done today?

[Anonymous No.]

Recommended deck for after the kanas?

The one I have currently has audio you need to listen to which doesnt really work for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531274
RTK or KD deck. I prefer RTK because it doesn't have duplicates like KD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530872
Lol man.

[Anonymous No.]

I learn kanji by emoji though. 目_目

[Anonymous No.]

where do I go to learn vocab. Anki a shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531608
http://japanese.about.com/lr/japanese_vocabulary/516752/1/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531614
サンキュ～

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531608

You can always go through some texts and words you don't understand can be looked up and written down for later.

[Anonymous No.]

Reading is so annoying.
Is it okay to sort of skim instead of reading carefully? I can't bear to look up every single word and try to understand every sentence perfectly. I can't take it easy like that.
Like, just read at a mostly constant speed without looking at a dictionary at all, ignoring words I don't know. I mean, I'll still read the furigana and process the kanji, but not waste time figuring out what it is if it doesn't come to me immediately.

Since I've done core6k and have an okay grasp on grammar, I can generally get the gist of most simple stuff if I skim like this.
Or would that be a waste of time and I'd have to read everything carefully in order to progress?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11530923
yeah, this sounds good I'll just restart the deck

>>11530995
>>11531022
Sorry I just messed up, I copied the example for a different card I was going without sleep and wasn't really paying attention, that sentence was an example for :

同じ -- same, identical

Sorry for the confusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531706
Do what you want and see how it works for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531706
Just use ITH and Jparser you fag. It takes no fucking effort to look up words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531706
I've been doing that a whole bunch when I want to keep reading but don't really have the motivation to do it properly.

There are some pros and cons to it. The main con is that you won't really learn any new words efficiently. You might get a vague idea of some words, but it will just be too much information for it all to stick. The pro is it takes less energy, and when you're trying to make the leap into starting to read, that's kinda important, because it takes tons of energy to read through sentence after sentence where you don't understand any of the words.

So it's somewhat viable for getting comfortable with the grammar and reinforcing words that you've already learned, but not for learning new vocabulary. You should try to add in some more deliberate reading as well, just a short session a day.

[Anonymous No.]

Why aren't you guys using this?

>https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1102215805

The normal Core decks are a clusterfuck. This is resorted into a logical order so that vocab using the same kanji are placed near each other, rather than being all over the place and scattered throughout a shit load of different step decks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11531706
Yes, just skimming is fine. Eventually you will understand more and more of the material you read - until then, you really don't need to look up every single word you don't know. Just focus on the ones that you see over and over again - ones that you recognize, but don't understand. Those are the low-hanging fruit.

[Anonymous No.]

I've put off reps for about a year now

[Anonymous No.]

Yes but I didn't finish because I got distracted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11518452
>it's a waste of time if you don't use them
You said it yourself.

I don't know any Germans, French, or latin speakers and probably never will. Spanish is everywhere but every mexican worth talking to also speaks English.

I'm a business major but my area has nothing to do with China.

I wouldn't use any of these "more useful" languages. On the other hand, I actually use Japanese on a daily basis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534196
Same here

Every day I say that today I will start my new life. Then I go on the internet and shitpost on /jp/ until I have wasted all of the free time that I could have spent bettering myself.

I feel like suicide is my only way out. That or I could stop posting on /jp/, but suicide seems much easier. I mean, just thinking how many months I have wasted on this god awful website makes me sick. And I know that I'm going to come back to this post in five minutes to see if anyone has responded.

Help me, /jp/. Just make the misery go away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534458
lel
kill urslef nerd

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534458
Edit your hosts file to redirect 4chan and its archives to SA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534458
Click on the reps. Do them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534458
but think how much better it will be to shitpost on /jp/ once you know japanese
you can do it!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534458
rip u

[Anonymous No.]

I'm having trouble finding stuff to read. The most moege with easy grammar are boring, but everything else is too difficult for me to read yet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534581
Keep playing moege then, until you get completely used to them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534581
http://www.j-comi.jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534581
Read shounen manga or play games with provided furigana.
http://www.jrpgclub.com/community/thread-39.html
Well at least its not the same moege formula all over again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534581
>wahhh I can't handle looking up words occasionally
Just play something harder and deal with it. There are plenty of scenarioge that aren't as hard as KKK

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534467

[Anonymous No.]

>>11534484
o-okay

[Anonymous No.]

>>11535106
I don't understand how furigana would even help someone.

[Anonymous No.]

Fucking hundreds of cards to review. Staring me right in the face. Get fucked anki, I do what I want.

[Anonymous No.]

No.

Thanks for reminding me.

I added two new cards today.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11535474
Furigana makes it easier to look up the words you dont know when you cant hook the text on the media.
Also I suggest shounen manga and games with furigana because its aimed for teens or younger(for games), so it uses much simpler sentences than serious eroge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11535685
It's not hard to use an OCR, furigana hurts more than it helps. Also games aimed at teens use harder sentences because there is so much slang. Proper sentence structure is quite a bit easier to ready.

[Anonymous No.]

Are there any more Qさま episodes somewhere? I only found two on PD and it is a very entertaining show so I'd like to see more. It's fun to see how the Japanese struggle with their own language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536030
What is going on in the picture? At first I thought it was asking which one starts with よ but the 3 words that I recognize all start with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11535187
more like
>I'm so shit at grammar that I barely understand what I'm reading if it's not a simple conversation
I tried reading Hoshizora no memoria while looking up words with jparser. After I read the monologue in the beginning I decided to read it again in the translated version. I got 50% of the stuff wrong even while looking up every word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536040
It's a show with 9 contestants and they take turns to answer one. On that picture all the words listed start with よ and and the bigger the number the harder it is considered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536046
Yeah, that's the problem I'm having too

Vocabulary is simple enough for me, but I'm absolutely awful at grammar

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536040
It's a show with a team of 10 contestants and they take turns to choose one of the words and write the reading of it. In that picture all the words start with よ and the bigger the number the harder it is considered.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536061
>>11536064
Ah, okay, thanks for the explanations.

[Sakura !6murAshIgE No.]

I want to get good at writing in Japanese like a native, but am not sure how they go about doing it. So far my current plan for the Jouyou Kanji, is to have readings in Anki, then I write what I think is the correct kanji. I'm just about done with grade 2 I think, and will hopefully have all of them done by May. I wish there were more examples of Japanese handwriting though. I'd like to know when they write kanji, how they write it, etc for notes or papers and stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11535944
Yes, using OCR is alot easier than typing the reading.
I'm pretty sure writers provide furigana when using uncommon words just to piss of the readers too.
>Also games aimed at teens use harder sentences because there is so much slang.
I'm sorry for hardly encountered it in the games I played.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536094
You said to read shounen manga fuckhead, and author's provide furigana for the native speakers that are already fluent in the spoken language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536448
>Also games aimed at teens use harder sentences because
>Also games
>games

And shounen manga I read Isn't hard too compared to serious eroge.

>and author's provide furigana for the native speakers that are already fluent in the spoken language.
So?
The fact is it helped me most of the time.
It hurts for you? uh.. gratz?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536030
How do you read 夜業 with a よ?

[Sakura !6murAshIgE No.]

>>11537848
Yonabe da ze~

[Anonymous No.]

>>11537862
感謝いたします

[Anonymous No.]

>>11537291
It hurts for everyone. I bet you think it counts as reading when you look up every other word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11538152
It only counts as reading when you look up every fifth word like me.

[Anonymous No.]

Can someone explain to me the definition of kanji and how many there are?

[Anonymous No.]

After I'm finished learning kanji with KD, where to?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541782
words, a lot

[Anonymous No.]

What kanji deck do I use to learn kanji? The KD deck has only 1764 notes and you're supposed to know at least 3,000 kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541883
In reality, you can do with 2000 kanji just fine and learn the odd one you encounter from time to time along with the vocabulary it belongs to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541888
So is there any kanji deck with 3,000k?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541895
Get the 6k deck and throw out all the crap you don't want.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541898
>throw out all the crap you don't want
What exactly do you mean by that? Also, aren't the Core2/6 decks for vocab only?

[Anonymous No.]

If I could back in time I would say to myself;
Don't bother with kanji yet. Just learn kana and read Tae Kim. Then play eroge with jparser and study with vocabulary deck. After you have been doing that for 6 months, then start learning kanji.

Feel free to use my advice beginners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541215
Epic dude. You're practically fluent!

[Anonymous No.]

What's the purpose of it when you're already planning your suicide?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11541888
>2000
>odd one
I remember being this new. 3000 is pretty much a minimum if you want to be able to actually read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542111
Where do I find a deck with 3000 kanji? KD only has 1764 kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542111
You can do fairly well with mid 2000s. I mean it's not like you're going to have much trouble with something by Ryuukishi or Age with 2500-ish. Easy sailing definitely comes at around 3000 though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542133
Why the fuck would you learn kanji like that? Just download a vocabulary deck, there is no reason to learn them individually first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542111
You'll have to a look up a whole lot of shit when read chapter one but chapters two through whatever will be a lot easier as you adjust to the new words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542133
You'll have to create your own, for non-jouyou kanji, and the jouyou that kanjidamage doesn

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542235
*And the jouyou that kanjidamage doesn't have.
My bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542189
Do you write kanji when you study with voca deck?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542237
No, why would I care about writing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542247
Then stop giving shitty advices. Voca decks aren't mean to learn kanji, they are meant to learn vocabulary.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I missing anything, /jp/?

I'm already using Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary for Anki and studying using wanikani. Is there anything out there that I'm missing? I've learned kana (obviously) and read all of Tae Kim's guide about two times. I started playing an eroge with ITH and rikai-chan but I read at SUCH a slow pace it almost wasn't worth it.

Should I keep doing what I'm doing? Or should I jump right into reading an eroge?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542287
You're missing this.

*whips it out*

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542287
I found it useful to start reading with eroge which have been translated. I had translated one on other computer and Japanese version on other one and I always checked did mine and translator's interpretation match. If eroge stills seems too hard, start with children manga like Yotsubato. Still it is important to have suitable balance between "fun studying" and actual studying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542287
>I started playing an eroge with ITH and rikai-chan

Throw the crutch away, learn to walk on your own.

>>11542111
You can read with as little as a 1000. The point is not to be fluent from the start. The point is to read.

>>11542189
And then there's this guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542336
>Throw the crutch away, learn to walk on your own.
Seriously? How do plan to read without dictionary?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542358
If you understand grammar but still find yourself lacking in vocabulary, it's time to go J->J.

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542579
>>11542579
What if I don't understand the dictionary vocab?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542579
That's stupid. English definition is plenty for most words, and he was already complaining about speed and you're telling him to slow down even more just so he can get the full trujapanese meaning of what 学校 really is.

Not to mention he probably can't read J->J dictionaries without a dictionary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542797

You're right, I should have looked at the rest of the conversation before replying. Obviously for someone just starting out J->E is going to be better.

As for the guy who asked the original question about playing eroge:

>>11542323 is right. Read the ones that have been translated - since you already know the story, you won't get lost. And you don't have to look up every single word you don't know with Rikaichan. Instead, just do it for sentences that you are one word away from understanding. Then enter those sentences into Anki.

Also, here's a pretty good J->E dictionary with tons of example sentences and useful short phrases: http://ejje.weblio.jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542990
So I'm supposed to just enter the word I don't know in anki, and then in the other side of the card, put the sentence with it as an example?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11543062
You could put the sentence on the front of the card as well. Just have definition of the word on the back, as well as its reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542323
That's actually really good advice, thanks guys.

To all the /jp/s who have used this method, what games did you read? I'm thinking I might re-read Tsukihime using this method.

[Anonymous No.]

J->E is fine, and actually better, for things like nouns, however once you get into adjectives, adverbs and verbs, J->J is always going to be better. You could always just add dictionary vocabulary, there's about 50 words that you'll see over and over again in the dictionary. Once you get those down, reading definitions is pretty easy.

[Anonymous No.]

This is a reply I couldn't post the other day, maybe it will help someone:

(In most cases, you can install the games twice)
Dude, if you can't read yet you need to read "parallel texts". Get the VN in English and paste the extracted Japanese text in some page like http://isoron.org/stuff/japanese/echo.html.. Then you organize the firefox browser parallel to the VN. After that you use Rikaichan to read WORD BY FUCKING WORD while you're comparing it with the English text, or reading the English first and then the original script in Japanese (at the beginning it will be tedious, but only reading in Japanese you will learn to read, well, in Japanese). Although if you lack patience you won't like this method. When you reach a point where you start feeling comfortable with Japanese drop the English translation and start reading the same way, pasting the text. I recommend this method because it forces you to read word by word, using a real dictionary; in this way you can get a real sense for Japanese grammar (you can set ITH to auto-copy and paste the things you don't get).

>>11543686
The important thing here is to read something you like, then you proceed to choose between the easier things if you are starting:
http://tsukuru.info/b/?p=1294
You could use this as a reference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544214
>The imperial characters all speak in super duper fancy Japanese too so it’s not just military jargon.
I think moogy is overreacting a tad here. I mean, come on. It's not nearly that bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544253
But for the games I've read, the list seems accurate so far; I mean it will not be perfect but it can help a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a site that's as detailed as kanjidamage where they even show jukugos and stuff but the order of the kanjis are in Heisig's? Kanjidamage has too few kanjis to learn. It doesn't even have the character for "four" for fucks sake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544424

I don't really know other sites like KD, but if you have an Anki deck and want vocabulary for the kanji you have there, you could import the vocabulary from a pre-made deck like:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1012100805

[Anonymous No.]

>>11543686
I don't think it matters. I would recommend to pick game you haven't played already and use translation which you believe is accurate. I just read A-profile and Yosuga no Sora (with partial patch) with that method. I think I got all basic clauses covered. But don't be 'blind' towards translation. Some translators might change the meaning so translation will make sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544464
>Yosuga no Sora (with partial patch)
Oh God, I tried that because I figured it would be faster for me than reading it in Japanese. Akira's route (it was about half done at the time I think) was so horrid I ended up uninstalling the patch to read Sora's route. It was seriously one of the worst translations I've seen outside of H-manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544478
Oh, good, I took screenshots. I swear I'm not just cherry picking, either. Pretty much every line in Akira's route is like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544439
Whoa this is really cool. How do you have the stroke order though? It only shows up as a blue box on mine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544439
Whoa this is perfect! It even shows the stroke order. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544478
Half translated means it isn't edited. Myself I just read common route and Nao's route till it was translated (it was even full of notes for editors), and read rest without the patch.

But anyway point of this method is just to understand context.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544541
>Half translated means it isn't edited.
No amount of editing could save that mess. You'd just end up re-translating it. Plus it was full of outright mistranslations anyway. I do understand what you're saying, though. I would just advise picking a different game.

I did that with Little Busters myself. I rigged up a system where I had both the English and Japanese versions running on the same computer, and pressing enter would advance both of them simultaneously. It was pretty helpful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544424
Yeah it does. http://kanjidamage.com/kanji/694-the-numeral-4-%E5%9B%9B

[Anonymous No.]

How am I supposed to know if 上 is pronounced as kami or gami without kana, romaji or audio?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544753
I don't think カミ is a very common pronunciation of うえ, anon. Maybe you're referring to 神?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544764
Well either of those.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517496
The link in the first step (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~if2n-szk/mnemonics.html)) doesn't even work.

What do I do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544774
I never see the point of mnemonics. I tried to remember one but it just made things more complicated for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544772
Well, there's no specific pattern that makes かみ become がみ in jukugo, so you pretty much need to learn when it'll be pronounced in one way, by acquiring vocabulary. However, there may be a specific method to identify them. Maybe another anon can explain it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544774
if you want mnemonics I think memrise.com has some curses for that.
also good way to learn kana http://learnjapanesepod.com/kana-invaders/
I really dislike that guide though. It leaves out the step of learning vocabulary. I can't imagine how you are supposed to start to read something without knowing at least some words. Also first learning tons of kanji and after that starting to learn grammar is nonsense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544789
I remember several people here mentioning that regardless of the language you're starting, you should always learn grammar first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544797
At least skim through it first so you know vaguely what's going on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544797
You can easily study the grammar in your months or years of kanji studying. No need to separate things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11517496
>3) Read all of Tae Kim’s Japanese Grammar >guide. This will take about 2~ weeks.

>2 weeks

Cramming all of it in 2 weeks is kind of too much. Or maybe I'm just extremely slow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11545773
I've already taken way longer than that and I'm maybe half way through.

I could maybe have done it in two weeks if I wasn't learning the kanji as I go along. My anki deck basically just consists of kanji that have been presented in Tae Kim's guide so far.
and when a lot of new ones have been introduced I will wait several days before continuing in the guide so I can study those kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544778
>I tried to remember one but it just made things more complicated for me.
>I never see the point of mnemonics.
Yep. The point of mnemonics is to associate hard(er) to memorize things to easy(er) to remember things. It's not a mnemonic (for you) if you have to memorize it. Aside from learning a certain technique's basics of course, like pegs. If there are a bulk to be learned before you can even start using it then you better have plans for using it very often.
>>11545773
Just enough to grasp the basics and to recognize the advanced ones when you see it. You're only going to be proficient after lots of exposure, usage and time.

[Anonymous No.]

I always get defeated before I even start. I go over the kana, and once it comes time to study Kanji and grammar I give up because there are so many ways to tackle them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544764
It's a common pronunciation in names. I think it's in a couple words too.

>>11544753
Learn the words.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11546148
Just do the standard route that everyone on 4chan always seems to recommend.
Memorize the kana -> start Tae Kim's guide and learn kanji along with vocabulary as you progress through the guide.
After that is up to you I guess

[Anonymous No.]

I've always kind of avoided Anki, since i noticed reading from random source material was working better in the long run, at least for me; lately though i feel kind of stuck, like there are so many words out there, and i can only pick so much of them while reading, and reading itself ain't even that much fun if i have to constantly look up words (though lately it's only like once or twice per sentence - not the easy peasy ones -, i guess). Peharps it's time to go back to grinding stuff, maybe this time it will go better? I dunno. Wish i was nipponjin already, man.

[Anonymous No.]

I've always kind of avoided Anki, since i realized it was better in the long run if i simply kept reading/trying to understand source material; now though i find myself at a point where none of the vocabulary i learn is quite common enough to actually memorize it any time soon - and yet my reading speed could definitely be better, or at least i'm kind of getting sick of constantly relying on jparser (i don't particularly like moege btw; being a pretentious asshole is probably my main problem with learning japanese). I thought maybe it's time to go back to core6k (not that i have the slightest idea how many k words i know)?

(Wish i was nipponjin already).

[Anonymous No.]

Is 二千二百二十二円 written right for 2222 yen?

[Anonymous No.]

I used Anki to build up my basic vocabulary and grammar and stuff. Now I'm pretty much good enough to just read eroge every day and it's much more fun.

I still use a J->E dictionary to look up words a lot though. Right now I use JParser in Translation Aggregator, it's convenient since I can mouse over words I don't know as they're copied into the clipboard by ITH. I would like to start using a J->J dictionary but it's time-consuming to copy and paste all the time, does anyone know a program that will do a similar thing as JParser except display Japanese definitions?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547230
how much vocab did you learn before you stopped? I got to 1.5k and found it too bothersome so i just run through it everyday to tie the english to japanese / audio.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547169
Nope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547230
>read eroge every day
>use a J->E dictionary to look up words
That's not reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544552
>No amount of editing could save that mess. You'd just end up re-translating it.
Isn't that pretty common to retranslate after editing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547284

Sure it is, when I just started reading books in English I had to look up words in dictionaries too. That's what they're there for! I'm not saying my Japanese is great, but it gets a little better each time I look something up and learn something new.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547301
That's not reading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11544497

Good heavens, this is hilarious. That actually makes me want to read the translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547321
It's painful and amusing at the same time.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there a list of raw manga/books/whatever when first getting into reading materials? What did you start with when first getting into reading?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547983
Porn manga. 気持ち良い.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547983
Something that you want to read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11547041
Make your own. You already know most words from core6k. Use rikaisama to make it quick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548142
Well, i might only know 3k or something for what i know (since i'm probably a piece of kuso); though your suggestion makes a hell lot more sense now that i think about it. Thx brah.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548142
Please don't respond to people who put question marks at the end of non question sentences, thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548469
You're right, anything beyond 3000 words is super uncommon and you will barely see them while reading!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548671
>anything beyond 3000 words is super uncommon

Actually you only need about 1000 words, anything after that is so uncommon that it's not worth knowing

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548671
Now dude i didn't exactly say that; i said they weren't common enough for me to feel comfortable learning them without srs'ing or something; also it kind of feels like shit to read anything with only 3k words, at least to me. (Does "uncommon" necessarily mean "over 10k words" or something? What does "subjective" mean? Jesus).

>>11548665
I suppose you don't like epic silent cries for help, but well, it's not like i had any specific question in the first place; in fact i was more worried if i was saying anything idiotic - since /jp/ is the eroge expert -, and was therefore trying to convey an incredibly subtle meaning which involved putting question marks where they aren't supposed to. Touché.

Also you ankifags need to chill out and start ruining your favourite eroge for yourself already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11548965
Sorry I couldn't understand your post. Could you please repost it in English or something?

[Anonymous No.]

What steps did you guys do to learn kanji? Learning kanji though Anki Heisig RTK is good, but it doesn't show all the meanings of the word unlike kanjidamage. But I can't use Anki flashcards if I learned through kanjidamage because the order of the kanjis doesn't match with my flashcards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550304
Yes, you can. In the worst case, you can just manually enable the ones you need one by one, that's how I used a generic Jouyou kanji deck back when I started learning.

[Anonymous No.]

What is with everyone in this thread learning kanji individually. That is literally the dumbest thing you could do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550378
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that we should be learning them all together? Or that we should get together with fellow Japanese students and form a learning group?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550385
That you should just learn vocabulary.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550508
People keep saying this shit and I never get why. Learning the general meaning of most kanji helps at learning vocabulary a fuckload. That's the whole point of Heisig's system and Kanji Damage and the like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550687
But you end up learning the kanji through vocabulary anyway, except you don't waste 2-3 months basically doing nothing before you start.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550692
If you don't study kanji deliberately in the beginning, it will be almost impossible to make them stick in your visual memory.

I know from experience. I tried reading stuff from day 1, because I really fucking wanted to read as soon as possible. And nothing stuck. I'd encounter some kanji over and over and have no clue what it means even though I remember looking it up several times. Then I tried to spend a little time on memorizing some common kanji, and suddenly everything went really smooth whenever I encountered any of those kanji. If it was a kanji with many different meanings depending on context, I'd still need to learn all those contexts, but it would be much easier since I could attach all that information to something I already knew.

Skipping the process of breaking down kanji literally only makes sense if you have photographic memory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550692
I for sure don't magically learn all the kanji that make up a word every time I look one up in a dictionary. I have to manually look up the unknown kanji which takes up a lot of time by itself. Most times I don't even bother and as a result I know the meanings of a shitload of vocabulary I don't know some of the kanji in, and when I run into those kanji in another word they are of absolutely no help in learning the word. Based on my experiences it would've probably been way easier learning the kanji first and vocabulary then, or doing that stuff intermittenly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550714
Well I learned 15,000 vocabulary in a year, and I can tell you from my personal experience that I a consistent 95% on Anki and have never learned a kanji by itself.

[Anonymous No.]

Yes. I do them on my 1h commute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550838
>>11550714
Guys.

Guys I have an idea.
Guys, hear me out.
Guys,
Guys.
What if,
Guys listen.
What if people,
Guys.
What if different people...
Learn differently?

[Anonymous No.]

I really really suck at vocab where I don't know any of the kanji.
I need to know at least one, so I can guess the pronunciation.
Otherwise it's just squiggly lines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550866

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550867
実現
表現
Totally looks the same to me. Especially with a tiny font.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550871
Add 実施 to the mix and I'm totally screwed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550838
How many kanji you can write from out of memory?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550838
Then you have autist memory superpowers.

>>11550871
See, that's the kind of thing that would be no problem if you had learned 実 and 表, but which is really tricky if you just look at the whole word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550714
>>11550719
I think you guys are misunderstanding what people mean when they say to learn kanji with vocabulary.

This is how I always took the meaning:
say you see a vocabulary word to learn with multiple kanji in it (日本語)
you learn the meaning of the word, and you learn how to say it
you also look up each kanji individually at least to know which part of the word is coming from which kanji (日-に, 本-ほん, 語-ご)
and also the stroke order if you are interested in learning that

They aren't saying to never learn anything about the individual kanji, basically the idea is to learn the individual kanji as they appear in entire words
and instead of doing flashcards with single kanji you do them with the entire word and you practice writing all the kanji in that word.
The main difference is that you _don't_ learn the meanings of each individual kanji (unless you are learning a word that happens to be 1 kanji long), and _don't_ learn all of the on'yomi and kun'yomi readings of each kanji, that will be a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551300
It's just the "two" sides misrepresenting the other because otherwise they can't be too sure that they're right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551300
>at least to know which part of the word is coming from which kanji (日-に, 本-ほん, 語-ご)

You should go all the way down to 言, 五 and 口, if you haven't already. And then add them all to your deck. That way, sure, you can "learn with vocabulary".

But no, that's not what they mean. (And this flame goes back in time to way before I even started learning, I've seen quite a few of them.) They literally and unironically tell people to shoot themselves in the foot by treating words as the most basic unit of information. "You don't need to recognize Latin roots of English words" is their mantra.

>and _don't_ learn all of the on'yomi and kun'yomi readings of each kanji, that will be a waste of time.

Nobody (and in particular, not the two most popular kanji-centered learning methods) is telling anyone to do this, ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551482
>>and _don't_ learn all of the on'yomi and kun'yomi readings of each kanji, that will be a waste of time.
Not him, I think doing this makes sense for the jouyou kunyomi (the vast majority are simple reasonable vocabulary) and onyomi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11550951
Why is that relevant?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551587
Leave, crossie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551587
>implying learning to write the characters is the hard part of any Sino language
Imbecile. If only you had worked on it a little.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551627
who the fuck you are quoting crossie?

[Anonymous No.]

I only do katakana since I don't know many japanese words anyway (apart from obligatory weeabo animu phrases). I'm kinda amazed over how much useful info you can extract from japanese websites, blogs and such by only reading the loan words though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551482
>"You don't need to recognize Latin roots of English words" is their mantra.

wat

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551550
Sure, but you're talking about learning things that are likely to be useful, while he seems to be talking about learning all spellings indiscriminately.

>>11551587
I AM SILLY

>>11551688
You know, like you can know what pedophilia means without learning what "pedo" and "philia" stand for (that's Greek, not Latin, but you get the point).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551722
So your saying you should learn pedo and philia before you learn the word pedophilia? Sorry but that seems pretty dumb. It seems like you would just pick up on what pedo and philia meant by learning a couple words that contained them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551729
Actually, if I were to say anything, it would be pointing out what a flawed analogy this is (you don't need to recognize "pedo" as a semantic unit to read the word because it suffices for you to recognize letters - you need to recognize the kanji because they ARE "letters"). But what I was doing was merely explaining that some people like to use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551750
The argument for learning kanji first has to do with acquiring vocabulary, it has nothing to do with recognition. Unless you're one of those idiots that thinks everything just looks like a bunch of scribbles, in which case you might literally have something wrong with you if you can't pick up on basic patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11536087
Wouldn't your best alternative be searching for native japanese people around the internet? I've seen plenty of japanese skype exchange sites in the internet, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

Would Core2k/6k Vocab and Hiesig RTK all in one with 30 cards each day and using rikaichan's dictionary for meanings get me to a decent level in less than four months?

[Anonymous No.]

Would Core2k/6k Vocab and Hiesig RTK all in one with 30 new cards each day for both of them and copypasting kanji onJapanese Online keyboard with rikaichan for meanings get me to a decent level in less than four months?

[Anonymous No.]

DJT is a fucking cancer. Not only is the thread itself shit, but it brought the worst kind of faggots over to /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11552903
Don't acknowledge them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11552933
But it's this entire thread.

Before DJT, japanese threads on /jp/ consisted of people talking to each other in shitty moon and having fun. Now they consist of forced reps meme and DJT faggots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11542111

[Anonymous No.]

>>11552120
There are multiple arguments for learning kanji first. A number of them concern recognition.

And yes, I'm one of those idiots who saw nothing but walls of scribbles until they taught themselves to recognize the patterns. You'd be surprised how many of us are around.

>>11552939
No revisionism, please. Reps were a thing before anyone on /a/ even figured out they could learn Japanese. You have other threads to post bad Japanese in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553225
Anon please, it's just been you forcing your shitty forced meme for the last year or so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11553245
Even if just by a few weeks, it still predates /a/'s "daily Japanese thread". And as for Anki threads in general, they were on /jp/ pretty much from the start.

[Anonymous No.]

You can't learn Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11554323

Well shit

[Anonymous No.]

Someday I'm gonna do it. Why am I so fucking lazy

[Anonymous No.]

>>11551587
Just interested have voca people actually learned kanji through their method. If one can't write kanji, then he hasn't learned them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11554411
Well I only know about 800 or so but I can write them just fine because I've been practicing writing them.
Just to clarify, I'm this person >>11551300 so I've been doing it the way I described in that post

I think people who learn kanji separate from vocabulary are a little too worried that they won't pick up on all the connections between patterns. Like the person who responded to me pointed out with 語 being made up of 言, 五, 口.
But from my experience (so far) I find that I do still catch all of those things even in reverse. I have to admit when I started I was worried there were too many interconnections between the patterns that I would never pick up on all of them, but you'd be surprised how well you do with enough practice. and learning it with vocab I have the added benefit of being able to relate all of those patterns to words.

[Anonymous No.]

This shit hardly matters in the long run. Either way you are going to get to reading sooner or later.

I'm looking for some relatively simple fantasy styled stuff to read, any one read anything note worthy? Manga/novel/VN is all fine.

[Anonymous No.]

How do I make rikaichan's dictionary to pop up on top of Google Japanese IME's suggest bar? It would be nice if I'm sure I'm typing the right character or not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11555460
You're obviously pretty new to computers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11557768
Oh god how do I computer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11561095
lmao!!!!!!!!!!