/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

What is Taoism, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

toyosatomimi no miko

[Anonymous No.]

It's a meme.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013076
>>11013078

Guys come on I wanna know.

[Anonymous No.]

taoism is the way of the tao the tao that can be described is not the real tao

[Anonymous No.]

The tao that can be told is not the true Tao.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013089
>>11013090

Is this like some inside joke?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013064
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html

[Anonymous No.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

[Anonymous No.]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=taoism

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013115
>Google
N-no thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013115
Miko's titties

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013162
You are supposed to read about taoism not to oogle her breasts!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013189
Too late.
I'm already masturbating

[Anonymous No.]

According to Laotzu is essentially ``taking it easy, the Right Way''.

[Anonymous No.]

The pleasure of being cummed inside

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013189
What Miko said: Do you want me to teach you about Taoism?
What I heard: Do you want me teach you about my breasts?

[Anonymous No.]

Why do explainations of Taoism have to be so convoluted?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11016434
They clearly said that the main point is just taking it easy, but apparently that contradicted a lot of people's world view.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11016442

But taking it easy is not always good....

[Anonymous No.]

>>11016459
The Taoist way of taking it easy is apparently in harmony with the movement of the universe, so everything is perfect by taking it easy. It's not our simple pleasure-indulging kind of taking it easy.

[Anonymous No.]

Why post a picture of Miko? Gensokyo Taoism isn't the same as out Taoism. If being a Taoist makes me emporer of the universe then sign me up right away!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013091
Variations on translations of the first line of the Tao Teh Ching

[Anonymous No.]

>>11016434
Okay, look.
>>11013090
Translation: "You're not supposed to take anyone's word for it. Ever. You can read about it, and you can talk to someone about, it, but you're supposed to think about it and reach your own conclusion. Fucker."

[Anonymous No.]

>>11020869
Just like this.

But I wouldn't recommend Tao Te Ching for a beginner. Read Zhuangzi first, you'll understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013064
Taoism is to always be prepared.

[Anonymous No.]

The tao is a good thing. Read the Tao Te Ching, and will begin to understand. Walk in the Tao for a lifetime, and will understand.

I can't believe I just wrote that, but its the only way to put it. Study the Tao. It have made me a better person, and I hope it can for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021240

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021017
Love that artist

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - Eastern Philosophy Culture.
Seriously, about a week or two ago I read, like, the best explaination of Koan I've ever encountered in my life here, on /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021241
I know, I have been working overtime to teach /jp/ about the Tao, and it is finally paying off. I am glad. I hope it sticks.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021248
I think Taoism and Zen Buddhism should naturally suit the carefree souls of /jp/. It's just that most of us don't know how to take it easy in a fruitful and healthy way. We're like, the dark side of the Tao or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021257
To some extant, I agree, but taking it easy and moving with the Tao are different. One is lazyness, and the other is wei wu wei, or moving without moving. We need to keep showing people how to meditate and live a simple lifestyle. Then the two can be come one. We need to keep teaching and moving forward.

[Anonymous No.]

I heard on the news that there was some Buddhist monk who keeps inciting riots to remove kebab
Sounds like best religion

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021257
To some extant, I agree, but taking it easy and moving with the Tao are different. One is lazyness, and the other is wei wu wei, or moving without moving. We need to keep showing people how to meditate and live a simple lifestyle. Then the two can be come one. We need to keep teaching and moving forward.

I need to go, but I will be back in 15 hours or so, and if any one has any questions, I will do my best to help you find the answer.

[Anonymous No.]

I say to you there is no buddha, no dharma, nothing to practice, nothing to enlighten to. Just what are you seeking in the highways and byways?
Blind men! You’re putting a head on top of the one you already have. What do you yourselves lack? Followers of the Way, your own present activities do not differ from those of the patriarch-buddhas. You just don’t believe this and keep on seeking outside. Make no mistake! Outside there is no dharma; inside, there is nothing to be obtained. Better than grasp at the words from my mouth, take it easy and do nothing. Don’t continue [thoughts] that have already arisen and don’t let those that haven’t yet arisen be aroused. Just this will be worth far more to you than a ten years’ pilgrimage.

As I see it, there isn’t so much to do. Just be ordinary—put on your clothes, eat your food, and pass the time doing nothing. You who come here
from here and there all have a mind to seek buddha, to seek dharma, to seek emancipation, to seek escape from the three realms. Foolish fellows!
When you’ve left the three realms where would you go?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11020802
Miko is a Taoist, she is just more interested in Taoist and alchemy to achieve immortality.

Actually I think the best representative of Taoism in Gensokyo would be Yukari: always does what is needed to be done and never claims any credit for herself, is aware of the ephemerality of everything (she lives for such a long time after all) thus able to enjoy life to its fullest while not being too attached to anything.

She appears to be a lazy, cunning and tricky youkai who doesn't have any care about the world, and her behavior seems so unsightly to those ''refined'' people (which is like every enlightened Taoist ever by the way), but in reality she is just a very playful youkai who has truly achieved satori.

(Either that or Yukari is really just a lazy bump. Who knows)

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021385
Isn't onmyodo related to taoism?

Even if taoism is not a religion followed in Japan it left a big legacy

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021395
Yeah, as far as I know most of Onmyoudou core concepts come from Taoism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021395
Well, her tabard is a good example

>>11021385
The ying yang ball and the trigram are from taoism

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021193
Taoism has made me a better person, even if I cop out and study the Dao De Ching by transcribing it as exercises in meditation. I suppose it is better than meditating on the best possible suicide methods.

It is a shame that I am often unable to make time for my faith these days, but at least I still have you guys to remind me to take it easy!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021385
She sounds more like an orthodox Jew, what with the adherence to the principle of charitable works done anonymously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021827
Actually following the tao wouldn't force you to believe in anything. Read >>11021383 carefully, it's for Zen practice, but they are really the same thing conveyed differently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021795
Trigrams predate Daoism

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021829
Nah, only the lazy and cunning part sounds really Jewish. But surely Yakumo is not a Jew last name.
Shalom, kike!

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021830
>put on your clothes, eat your food, and do nothing
If only I could return to that lifestyle ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021838
Well, that too. But there are traditional Jewish stories that specifically enforce the virtue of giving charity and doing good works anonymously.

I haven't gone to temple in years though

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021848
But Yakuri doesn't do good deed anonymously because it's a moral thing to do. That's a huge difference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021854
Yeah you're right, I get what you're saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021842
When I was young, I went to this Zen school. The only thing the masters there made sure the students followed was simply that we must diligently do everything daily life, with full attention, intention and awareness. Just that much was enough for a bunch of kids like ourselves to be able to clean our mind of needless thoughts, and appreciate the beauty of even the simplest things. That is, Anonymous-san, exactly where the Tao lies.

I tell you, it feels really close to a state of satori. But of course when we came back we still couldn't deal with the massive distraction of modern life.
It still changed my life forever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021870
Thanks, That sounds nice. I plan on eventually completing my education in China (either mainland or Taiwan), I imagine there should be many opportunities there to physically experience what you did

[Anonymous No.]

To follow the way involves realizing that you are already following the way. In other words, you are a part of the universe in the same way a finger is part of your hand and whatever the finger does is a manifestation of the individual and the universe. You cannot help but act in harmony with all things because you are inextricably part of the process of all things -- that is, everything you do is in reaction to your environment. You cannot help but act and you can only act because there is only action.

This is the tao.

[Anonymous No.]

For a week I have been reading a translation of the Tao Te Ching online. I am about halfway through it though I like rereading verses over and over again.

I am not sure I understand, though. It feels like it has made my outlook on things more apathetic. Things that usually bother me, I just start thinking it really doesn't matter. At the same time, things that usually excite me I'm more mellow about, and think it really doesn't matter. I'm not really happy or sad, just content and apathetic. Something feels wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

Who butterfly here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11022586
A /jp/sie once dreamed that he was a butterfly, fluttering around to and fro, without a care in the world.

When he woke up, he went on /jp/ and created a thread. In the thread, he told /jp/ about his dream, and asked "am I a shitposter who dreamed he was a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that it is a shitposter?"

His peers, of course, responded that /jp/ is not your personal blog, and told the shitposter to get out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021885
That's more like explaination of Wei wu wei, not the Tao itself, which cannot be explained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11022629
woah, dude, that shit is deep, bro

[Anonymous No.]

>>11022691
Well, the whole Zhuangzi's book is deep, bro.

[Anonymous No.]

Are we sharing ancient Chinese wisdom?
http://ctext.org/gongsunlongzi/bai-ma-lun

[Anonymous No.]

I feel that meditation is the major benefit given by studying Taoism or zen. I guess I practice both.

[Anonymous No.]

>What is Taoism, /jp/?

It's to Buddhism what Shite Islam is to the Druid Churchill of England.
Yes I am talking about turning people into hated minorities.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024124
You really have no idea what you are talking about. Its not even a troll, just ignorant

[Anonymous No.]

>>11022527
Don't feel too bad about it- that's about right. There is virtue to be found in the apathy and contentment, but if it bothers you then you need not follow it to the letter. You don't need to follow it at all. You, the Tao, and all things are no worse off for you taking a different path. Just know that the apathy is part of the effects of Taoism. It curbs desire, which in turn curbs suffering as all suffering is innately tied to desire. In the Tao Te Ching, it even says that the Taoist does not live to LIVE and thus has no purpose for desire. Or rather, that is my interpretation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11022527
Insted of just reading, take a walk and think about it. Try meditating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013089
I think I may have independently came up with a concept the same or similar to the Tao.

There is a truth that everything stems from, but it's impossible to learn of because you already know it, and impossible to quantify because it is the measuring stick.

[Anonymous No.]

It's not apathy. If you feel apathy it's very likely that you're doing it wrong. All of the legendary philosophical Taoists really enjoyed life for what it is, being apathetic means that you have severed yourself from everything, which is the closest thing to not following the Tao.

What you want achieve should be the lack of attachment (which is not the same as ruthless detachment) to everything, that's it, you don't tie yourself to anything at all.
There is no happiness or sadness, but not because you are constantly apathetic, but because there truly is no happiness or sadness. They are the results of your impression and interpretation of the world, they are as real as the fingers on your hand (well, thoughts and feelings have physical basis too but we tend to forget that), but they are also as emepheral as the moment two petals met each other as in 5cm/s. That applies to everything else, even to human's seemingly bedrock knowledge of the world: old theories are bound to be left obsolete by better theories in the future. That's what the Zen people mean by their "no dharma", "no text", and "gateless gate". They call this emeperality everything shares the voidness of everything, and even this voidness has the voidness property too. Supposedly you will achieve Satori once you really get what that means (or maybe once you achieve Satori you will get what that means).

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024670

That's mostly what I have learned from my experience with ancient eastern wisdoms[1]. But by no means ancient eastern philosophies are against intellectualism. They actually had their own model to explain the world, ONLY that they also knew these models were just a reduction of the world, they had limitations and they would one day those limitations would render them useless. That's why the Taoists from era to era have to remind people that, the Tao that can be put into words is not the true Tao, and the Buddhists have to remind people that there is no buddha, no dharma, no tomes as I mentioned above. Note that the novices are still told to appreciate and respect the Buddha, the Dharma and fellow Buddhists.
__________________
[1]: Well, I was fascinated with philosophical Taoism and Buddhism since my childhood. About your apathy, I also experienced that, and it took a while to recognize and overcome it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024670

That's mostly what I have learned from my experience with ancient eastern wisdoms[1]. But by no means ancient eastern philosophies are against intellectualism. They actually had their own model to explain the world, ONLY that they also knew these models were just a reduction of the world, they had limitations and then one day those limitations would render them useless. That's why the Taoists from era to era have to remind people that, the Tao that can be put into words is not the true Tao, and the Buddhists have to remind people that there is no buddha, no dharma, no tomes as I mentioned above. Note that the novices are still told to appreciate and respect the Buddha, the Dharma and fellow Buddhists.
__________________
[1]: Well, I was fascinated with philosophical Taoism and Buddhism since my childhood. About your apathy, I also experienced that, and it took a while to recognize and overcome it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024495
It's not necessarily the book that was bothering me, but my understanding -- or lack of understanding. But on thinking more into it, maybe that's not something to be frustrated over. I doubt the Tao is something I can understand in its entirety.

>>11024670
>>11024685
I have a lot to learn, I see. I guess what I've been doing is forcing myself to not care, which is different from the lack of attachment you mentioned. Rather than trying to break myself away from desires, I should just... not have them, I guess. Maybe it's more about acceptance than apathy? It's starting to make some sense in my mind, I just have difficulty talking about it. The more I try to talk about Taoism, the harder it gets.

>>11024624
I definitely am going to tomorrow. I might even get a physical copy, rather than just reading online. It's a bit hard for me to wrap my head around it, and yet the more I contemplate it, the more relaxing it is.

Thank you for talking to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024873
Well yes, it's more about letting it go than killing it off. You see, tie something to something and severe something from something are both forceful actions, that's not taking it easy at all.

About the book, you might consider reading Zhuangzi first, Tao Te Ching is like a bunch of incomprehensible academic papers that you can't even be sure which parts were really originally written by Laotzu, while Zhuangzi's book was like the taoist equivalent of SICP.

[Anonymous No.]

I studied a bit of Taoism and Buddhism, mostly Taoism, and I really wanted to follow the teachings, but I couldn't bring myself, they just can't understand the darkness of my soul(seriously). I feel like I could benefit from it, and I think both of them are beautiful, but I'm rotten inside, and if I tried to follow their ways I would only poison it and twist it in something ugly.

Mikoemon tasukete

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024946
I had heard of Zhuangzi, though I had assumed I should read it second. But I'll look into that book, too. I'm pretty stupid and even had trouble with SICP, though, so I guess we'll see how it goes.

Thank you again for talking to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024972
Holy shit you could split the atom on that post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025005
please don't laugh at me

[Anonymous No.]

you guys should all go to the latest touhou voting website and cast her into top 10. may be her only chance

[Anonymous No.]

I really respect Buddhism, and Taoism as religions. I just can't follow or wrap my head around them, though. Every time I start reading about them, I just think to myself "this shit is silly as fuck."

Sometimes, I wonder what it would be like to earnestly follow a religion, but then I realize that I simply will never be able to. I've ruined myself with a fervent desire for reason. The only thing I will ever believe in, now, is science and technology.

I won't be able to connect with Miko when I go to Gensokyou. This makes me sad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025002
>I had heard of Zhuangzi, though I had assumed I should read it second
The difference is that the Zhuangzi is short stories often with a witty tone, that are much easier to comprehend than other books. Just pick some stories to read per night, they’re accessible and it’s not one huge philosophical essay at all.
Only one of the three parts of the book is actually thought to have been written by Zhuangzi though, yet they’re all in the same style.
And if you think Confucius was an uptight aristrocrat then you’ll like the Zhuangzi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013486

That's the great part about Taoists. Once she figures out why you're listening, she'll just go with the flow and let you feel her breasts. It will be a lesson in Taoism and a nice hedonistic grope-fest all at once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025202

Buddhism is just nihilism.

Taoism is the religion of existing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025255
Please don’t rape princes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025260

It's not rape if they don't say no.

[Anonymous No.]

I-I know this is taboo... but...

reddit.com/r/taoism/

[Anonymous No.]

There was once a programmer who was attached to the court of the warlord of Wu. The warlord asked the programmer: ``Which is easier to design: an accounting package or an operating system?''

``An operating system,'' replied the programmer.

The warlord uttered an exclamation of disbelief. ``Surely an accounting package is trivial next to the complexity of an operating system,'' he said.

``Not so,'' said the programmer, ``when designing an accounting package, the programmer operates as a mediator between people having different ideas: how it must operate, how its reports must appear, and how it must conform to the tax laws. By contrast, an operating system is not limited by outside appearances. When designing an operating system, the programmer seeks the simplest harmony between machine and ideas. This is why an operating system is easier to design.''

The warlord of Wu nodded and smiled. ``That is all good and well, but which is easier to debug?''

The programmer made no reply.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

> I've ruined myself with a fervent desire for reason. The only thing I will ever believe in, now, is science and technology.

No, you've ruined yourself with the assumption that Buddhism and Taoism are like your semitic religions. The Buddha even encouraged people to be skeptical and use reason to distinguish what is bullshit and what is real worth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024873
of course it can't be understood, else it would not be the Tao

>>11024972
These are philosophies of peace. Buddhisum turned me evil is /x/ class crazy, or at best baptist church basement handout crazy.

This ignores religious Taoism, which by itself is as crazy as above mentioned baptists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025202
>I've ruined myself with a fervent desire for reason. The only thing I will ever believe in, now, is science and technology.

Friend, I doubt any of us are religious here. Taoism is not a religion, its not supernatural. Its just a state of acknowledging and enjoying your own life. I am a scientist, like, microscope and writing papers and long nights at the lab scientist, and most scientists and code monkeys follow the tao to some degree. I doubt they meditate or other practices, but they move with it. The only people that actively move against the tao are politicians and organized religion. Tricking old people into giving up their lifes savings for a false promise of immortality? That is simply evil. Lying to promote war and the arms industry? Science has no problem coexisting with taoism, and they two compliment each other quite well. Science is the generation of understanding the universe, and taoism is the acceptance of the universe, and by extension, that understanding. If taoism is limit your view of how the world really is, then you are doing it quite wrong.

I hope I was clear in explain this, the more you read and write about it, the harder it becomes to explain it to a layperson. Kind of like scientific papers, if you want that analogy. Seems like plenty of people here willing to help you, ask questions if you have them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025497
you are a giant faggot

you know that, right?

[Anonymous No.]

Taoism official religion of /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025279
I take it you've read your SICP today?

captcha: known ommedeto

[Anonymous No.]

The Church of Emacs is much better thanks to Our Holy Saint IGNUcius whom gave us the truth, law, and justice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025497
>Taoism is not a religion, its not supernatural.
That's what I told myself about tulpa, but I wasn't able to make one.

[Anonymous No.]

「今日子讀SICP書乎？」

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025525

>>11025592
Was an attempt at ‘have you read your SICP today?’ in Classical Chinese. I was too lazy to edit the image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025237
> if you think Confucius was an uptight aristrocrat
Confucius was a moderately uptight person imo, at least when he met Laotzu (according to the folklore, I think), he was the only one among his faction who recognized that Laotzu's powerlevel was so high he and his students weren't really at the position to judge him. Apparently his students all thought that Laotzu was a weirdo that they wouldn't take seriously.

While we're at it, I also think Confucius' intention was incredibly good and respectable, but the feudal courts of eastern countries' zealous (and perverted) enforcement of his ideas was one of the worst things ever happened to the advancement of humankind. Worse than what the semiticshits' dark ages, since afaik there was no equivalence of Reconnaissance in the east save for Japan's Meiji Revolution, which also happened a little bit late. It produced like a thousand years of generations of uptight, close minded faggots whose only interest in life was to look classy according to Confucianism's standard. Well they did have noble goals like ``contribute for the country, care for the living of the people'', but in the end, like >>11021854 mentioned it was just because it's a moral thing to do according to what they were taught.

You don't have to ask me, very few intellectuals of that time could take it easy without being ridiculed by the society.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025611
>While we're at it, I also think Confucius' intention was incredibly good and respectable
Compared to the legalists they were up at the time, definitely.

[Anonymous No.]

I mean, the concept of 仁 versus having your body parts cut off for minor non-malicious errors is definitely preferable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025627
> Ren (or Rén) (Chinese: 仁; pinyin: rén; Wade–Giles: jen) is the Confucian virtue denoting the good feeling a virtuous human experiences when being altruistic. 仁 is exemplified by a normal adult's protective feelings for children.
S-so, just like ``moe''?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025633
仁 = virtuous, good
It has to do with the extension of ‘family’ to the public sphere in Confucian thought where a good ruler is like a good father, a good citizen like a good son, you treat your friends like your brother.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11021049
Is Batman their God?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013078
Technically, you're correct

[Anonymous No.]

One of the things to understand is this, letting go of the tao is important for one to become one with it. The concept of the tao is difficult to grasp, and holding on to some concept of it that you may have in your head is a problem. You need to let go of these false taos to grasp the full tao. Only if you can give up the tao can you move in line with the stream of the tao. There is a saying which I will relate to you about this. "the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon itself. Do not confuse the finger for the moon" This means that the teaching that point the way to satori, the tao or enlightenment are not enlightenment themselves. You must be careful not to confuse them.

Organized religion is about holding on, never letting go.

"Look what my god has done"
"my god made the world"
"look at my god's history"
"my god is the only god!"

All of it is about holding on tightly to some act, or someone, something. One of the most important things to learn about the tso is letting go. Possessions, money, fame, they are okay to let go, in 80 years or so they will be let go anyway right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025633
Piss off, /a/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028447
This anon speaks only truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028447

Think of the tao like a big river, (remember the moon) the tao is the river, but there are small currents in that river as well. Is it easier to swim with or against the current? At the same time, you need to learn to see the small currents that can trap you, or make your swim harder. These small currents still move with the main flow of the river. You need to feel for what is the true tao, and what are false taos.

This is why it is so important to learn to let go of the tao, but still embody it. Some of those small currents may feel true, but they are not. Remember:

The tao that can be called the tao is not the true tao.

[Anonymous No.]

How does someone meditate?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028664
Sit still and stop thinking.

You drown out thoughts by focusing on breathing and the small sensations all over your body.

Works best when the Earth's EM field is stable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028477
>The tao that can be called the tao is not the true tao.
That's probably one of the most important verses but it always leads me to confusion.

I start thinking about "tao", but if I can think about it so clearly, then it isn't actually "tao", right?

[Anonymous No.]

so, i need to read zhuangzi and tao te ching? anything else

although, from reading this thread, i probably already understand some of what is tao

[Space Flower !JLY7OHoMIg No.]

>>11028811
Yup. Pretty similar in aspect to action without action, the main proponent.
Here's a good one. A Taoist is presented with a glass that is 50% water. Many schools of philosophy have different views on how to perceive this glass. The Taoist, however, simply drinks the water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028938

So we're Tao even if we aren't trying to be Tao or something? I mean I'd drink the water too unless it looked nasty. I'm just a simple person. This is weird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11029003
Like the river, everything goes down stream at some point. The taoist simply realizes that the river is there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028855
Zen koans are always nice, but wait for a bit. You can't just read these books are understand. Look up the history that surrounds them to see where the philosophy started, Understanding is much more important then just memorizing and reading. I would meditate for around an hour for each section of the tao te ching minimum as I read it. Learn to meditate first, even if you dont move on, it is healthy and feels good. Get good at it, and be able to sit for half hour or so without being busy in your mind. Its hard to go for more then a half our or 45 min, so thats a commonly accepted goal.

This is a really personal thing, so its really hard to comment like this on it. Assume that almost all of it will vary for you. I would defiantly recommend working with koans after a bit. If you live in a city with more then 50k people or so, they probably have a zen center you can go to for advice. They might be able to help you with some questions, assuming its not run by some hippy or otherwise poorly run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11029547
The Eastern religions are confusing in their simplicity.

I'm more of a Buddhist guy though. Meditation/mindfulness helps me relieve some of my pointless anxiety.

[Anonymous No.]

Productive thread. I didn't think I would learn so much from /jp/ today.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11028811
>The tao that can be called the tao is not the true tao.

Well, it's somewhat like the ``finger pointing to the moon'': you can't contain the moon in your finger just like you can't express the Tao with words, because the Tao itself is not a concept, so we can only call it "Tao" or "The Way" to point to it. Every elaboration on the Tao in this thread is like that. Oh and you can't ``interpret" the Tao, that's missing the point completely. I think there's a post or two about the ``emptiness'' (or ``voidness'') of everything. Basically, everything in this universe (1) moves, thus (2) changes constantly. Our minds, on the other hand, try to divide and reduce the world into abstract concepts, and we think using them as representation of the world.

Now consider this: we tend to assign identity to things, but (1) in reality that thing we're talking
about has already changed (in fact is still changing) into something different, and (2) is there actually a thing like our perception in the first place? Heisenberg [0] realized that even mere observation changes the phenomenon, so, is such perfect conception fundamentally possible at all? In fact, we can't determine indentity of anything using abstract concepts. They're just approximate representations we use to understand some aspect the world. They are the fingers. It got even more complicated when we derive new concept from other concepts, since the more abstract a concept is, the
more ``things'' it points to. Sometimes ago I read a guy's elaboration on /prog/ about ``how to break every argument''. He just asks "define X", "how so", "what is the"... on and on, until the opponent reached their edge of their fabrication of reality, where they have to deconstruct what they have taken for granted their whole life. Sometimes my very own curiousity led me to such situation. Maybe that's why Koan work: they are there to break your reality and make you look beyond that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030428

And this lack of identity is the inherent emptiness (or voidness) of everything: in the end there's no you, no me, no Earth, no Milky Way, no purpose in life, no General Relativity, no fundamental particles, no Tao, no Dharma, no nothing. By no mean I (or the masters before us) am against the use of abstract thinking - that's what makes us human after all, the point is to be aware of this ``emptiness". In emptiness, lies usefulness[1]. Without a doubt, human civilization advances pretty far by using those ``empty'' concepts: they are one of the most powerful tools in human's possession. But by being aware of that, you can attain a lack of attachment to everything, from physical possession to pet theories to preference: you can have possession, you can have your favored theory, you can like your favorite 2hu doujin to your heart content, but because you enjoy them for what they are, you don't have any attachment to them[2]. It's by chance that you met, and it's by chance that they're gone. You let them come, you let them go, you don't artificially tie your existences to each other. That's it, essentially, just taking it easy and do what you're doing.

Let's again consider water, since it's one of the most carefree thing we know in the world. It can flow, peacefully and gently, it can be tidal waves, powerful and destructive. It can vaporize all the way to become cloud, riding in the wind. It can be frozen, sleeping in sub-273K degree for an almost-
eternity. When it flows, it doesn't hold on to any shape and form, it just takes the shape of what it flows through. Is it that water flows in waterways and streams, or is it because water flows, there are waterways and streams? No matter how you look at it, water must be a supreme expert in taking it easy, it just embraces whatever it is going through and doesn't tie itself to anything.[3]

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030441
The ultimate realization is, however, not just that emptiness. Apparently, it is as >>11024670 said, the ultimate Satori lies in the realization (or perception? I haven't reached Satori so I don't know) that this very emptiness is, recursively, empty[4]. That's the theme of [5], which was the only Sutra I
had to learn (in that Zen school I told about before): that is the most essential ``finger'' of all in
Buddhism literature, if you don't know anything you can just know this one.
____________________
[0]: I think you know we're talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle
. This is not to be confused with the observer effect, however. The former is more fundamental in that it requires the observer to be a part of the system, while the latter just addresses the inadequate of technology. I don't remember all the theory since it's been so long, so if you want to talk about that, go to /sci/.
[1]: http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html#11
[2]: This might be the reason why Taoism and Zen Buddhism people are among the most open-minded people I know.
[3]: Koishi anyone? Someone who shat her consciousness mind down, doesn't have a presence and just come and go like she's part of the nature itself. Looks like Byakuren is right about Koishi being really close to enlightenment.
[4]: There are a lot of Koan and paradoxes involving recursion and self-reference. Maybe just like what was said in GEB, the key to the life of everything lies in this self-reference. Well, guess that I should go read that book again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030454
[5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81#Prajna-paramita_Sutras . It's hard to make sense of this piece, especially when translated to English. It means something along the line of ``The sutra of perfect wisdom''. It is also the shortest sutra in Buddhism literature, only about 260 words in total (about less than 1/10 the length of my posts, yes, it is that awesome). Sometimes I wonder if Byakuren actually skipped this sutra because it seemed so trivial or something, since she surely couldn't take it as easy as she should be able to.
[n]: God damn it /jp/, why the hell is footnote so fun? Just the footnotes alone make writing such a longass and boring post so fucking enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030454
[5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81#Prajna-paramita_Sutras . It's hard to make sense of this piece, especially when translated to English. It means something along the line of ``The sutra of perfect wisdom''. It is also the shortest sutra in Buddhism literature, only about 260 words in total(about 1/10 the length of my post, yes, it is that awesome). Sometimes I wonder if Byakuren actually skipped this sutra because it seemed so trivial or something, since she surely couldn't take it as easy as she should be able to.
[n]: God damn it /jp/, why the hell is footnote so fun? Just the footnotes alone make writing such a longass and boring post so fucking enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030462
Footnotes will be the next greentext. Calling it now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030454
>>11030454
[5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81#Prajna-paramita_Sutras .
It's hard to make sense of this piece, especially when translated to English. It means something along the line of ``The sutra of perfect wisdom''. It is also the shortest sutra in Buddhism literature, only about 260 words in total(about 1/10 the length of my post, yes, it is that awesome). Sometimes I wonder if Byakuren actually skipped this sutra because it seemed so trivial or something, since she surely couldn't take it as easy as she should be able to.
[n]: God damn it /jp/, why the hell is footnote so fun? Just the footnotes alone make writing such a longass and boring post so fucking enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030478
Meh, sorry, I accidentally deleted the previous post.

[Anonymous No.]

So it isn't "wrong" to think about tao... or anything, I suppose. One just has to also realize that his thoughts on the subject are not the same as the subject. If I follow the metaphor, pointing at the moon might help you better understand the moon, you just have to understand that the pointing finger is only a tool to help, and is not an actual representation.

I feel like what I said makes no sense. I'm not smart enough to express myself like others in the thread are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11030581
It is actually paradoxical to think about the Tao. Think about it like that: it is impossible to be defined, by definition. Now we have something similar to a Koan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025465
I remember that in one of his lecture, there was one guy asked him that since there were so many religions and philisophical factions out there, and all of them claimed that their way was the one true way, how would he know what he should follow.

The Buddha then replied something along this line: be rational, do your research, don't take anything for granted, ask yourself: is their teaching helpful or harmful, what should be learned from and what should be just ignored.

He then reminded people that, even his words should not be taken for eternal truth, because he also had to consider how to make it easy for everyone to understand. His words were just a catalyst for real understanding. Something along the line of "finger pointing to the moon".

If the Buddha were in this modern world, I guess he would be the best kind of professor.

[Anonymous No.]

Koishi was probably trying to commit suicide, by forcing her self to be forgotten.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11031775
All she wants is not to be hated, and she got her wish. Nothing so dramatic as suicide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013097
>22
Well, that is true indeed.
Though I find quite bizarre(?), how there are people that apply that kind of text to a "way of life". I can't imagine a connection between a book and a life path.
I can understand regulations: Do not kill, Do not walk on the grass. But "The Valley Spirit never dies//It is named the Mysterious Female"? I wouldn't know what the fuck to do with that. Maybe I'm too dumb for this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11032065
TTC is a very very dense document. And where on earth did you find those lines? The Tao Te Ching does not have those lines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11032150
This reminds me, does anyone know of the best available translation?
Some are just so drastically different from each other it's not even funny. I found one that was entirely in slang and nigger talk and it was weird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11032150
Chapter 6.

But to expand on what I said.
Let's take a look at another part selected randomly:
"In harmony with the Tao,
the sky is clear and spacious,
the earth is solid and full,
all creature flourish together,
content with the way they are,
endlessly repeating themselves,
endlessly renewed."
What exactly does a person do with that?
Maybe I don't understand, or rather I can't feel the anwer, because I'm too spoiled by positivism.

>>11032158
It's Ancient Chinese. I don't know about this document but I'd guess you won't have much success in trying to find a "best" translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11032170
Here is a different translation, it may make things simpler.

The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.
It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.

Basically your line is talking about how things will move smoothly when the tao is followed. Its a description of peace.

>>11032158
I like the Steven Michel translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11032158
Can you post a link? I think it would be an amusing read. I saw one with rocket ships and other stuff. but cannot find it. Steven Micheal is a good tras

[Anonymous No.]

I am currently reading Journey to The West. It's really interesting but they keep mentioning concepts that I do not know of.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11033846
I'm sorry, but I can't find it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11013091
道可道，非常道。
However, you can translate it as "the true Tao can't be explained by words."

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.taoismforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10

[Anonymous No.]

If Miko is a taoist, can she manipulate chi?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11036286
depends on the type of taoist. Religious taoist would care about it, philosophical would not

[Anonymous No.]

>>11036286
She's manipulated my "chi" a few times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11036876
I think jing is more appropriate for this kind of joke.

[Anonymous No.]

Wow, /jp/. Just fucking wow.
Inspired by this thread, I was going to my father's reading room to get his copy of Zhuangzhi. And guess what, the book, along with a translation of Goethe's Faust published in the 70s and some other freaking old books were all being eaten by fucking termites.

You told me to learn to let things go, and now seems like a good time to put it to practice. But fuck no, I'm going to have my sweet revenge on those enemy-of-humankind fucking little cunts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040581
>I was going to my father's reading room

>tfw dad can barely read anything at all so I've had the joy of reading everything myself

[Anonymous No.]

What does /jp/ think about Confucianism?
I'd say it's superior to hippy taoism and better then buddhism, which destroys families.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040756
authoritarian

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040756
Good intentions but produces a messed up society, see the neo-confucianist South Korea.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040810
Could you please give me a quick summary on it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040843
On Confucianism or the ill effects of the neo-confucianist culture in East Asia that is especially visible in South Korea?
I don’t think I can give a summary on either to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040856
Could you at least tell me the ill effects of neo-confucianism? It's just to not have to spend a few hours researching Korean history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040872
They take the age-based hierarchy extremely seriously, like the Japanese senpai-kouhai relationship but much more thorough, it’s practically unthinkable to become friends with someone a year older than you.
Allegiance to the nation that trumps rational thinking
Kids being pushed to extremities in order to achieve, every parent expects their child to be on top in class and become a world star musician or athlete
The forming of certain absurdly large corporations that make the law
Corporate life being basically Japan but even worse

China’s evolving in the same way

[Anonymous No.]

>>11040901
>it’s practically unthinkable to become friends with someone a year older than you.
Please tell me that doesn't apply to romantic relationships. That would cause more demographic problems than the one child policy.

[Anonymous No.]

Give me the short summary.
Is Taoism more focused on being more natural and going with the flow, while Buddhism is more focused on achieving freedom from desire?

[Anonymous No.]

Is The Dude, a taoist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041026

The Dude is a buddhist

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041030
Zen Buddhism is just Taoism dressed up in a monk's robes.

[Anonymous No.]

Confucianism was the worst thing ever happened if you don't count semite shits. Believe me, I'm an Asian guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041070
Do you hate your parents or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041101
No, I don't. Buddhism taught me to respect my parents more than anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041119
>respecting your parents
get out

[Anonymous No.]

>>11024873

Here's my perspective on the difference between detachment and apathy. Apathy is forced detachment to serve a purpose for the ego. In a sense, it's actually the opposite of detachment, because the absolute first thing one should focus on detaching oneself from is the ego, before one should focus on detaching oneself from loved ones, pleasure and pain, friendship, etc.

With apathy, the demands and attachment to the ego are so strong that you're willing to sacrifice everything else, to remain attached to the ego, to remain attached to the self.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041133
Wow, that made me bleeding nonstop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041134

To elaborate a bit further, detachment might sound sad or even cold at first, but its actually rather beautiful in practice.

With detachment from the self comes true kindness and regard for others, but without simultaneously detaching oneself from the world, one achieves not harmony but dissolution. When practiced genuinely, one will suffer countless grievances and suffering until one fades away, or regains an ego. Practically nobody seriously manifests this way precisely because as a philosophy, its inherently unstable, it is self destructive. Apathy can like I said, considered the flipside of this, something that is commonly seen amongst many, when one is willing to detach oneself from everything else in the world but what is perhaps the strongest source of pain, the self itself.

Harmony is when both are achieved in equal proportion. And as some other people have expressed, no, not everyone can really attain that. Such is the tragedy of humanity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11025465

I somehow doubt buddha would brave the Kafkaesque bureaucracy that is the tenure system.

If buddha exists in the modern world, I imagine him being one of those people who you find exceptionally beautiful in character, and would likely be a positive influence on anyone that ever met him, but would likely live and die without renown or recognition. Although it would not likely bother him at all, the fact does rather bother me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041058
nothing keeping them apart. I am both a zen buddhist and a taoist. They dont conflict. Zen is a behavior pattern, while taoism is a philosophy. Both lead to similar actions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041168

Meant to quote

>>11041175

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041168
I know a man like that. Its like he just moves though life on water. He just goes wherever he wants, always moving. Every one who has ever met him has been profoundly affected by him. It was applying what he taught me that moved me into taoism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041191

Goddammit

sry I lurk too much.

>>11030692


Proper quote

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041186
I forgot to say that he was a teacher. Not a college prof, but a high school science teacher. He is the reason I am who I am today. I wish I could give him the praises of the world, but he would just smile and walk somewhere quiet. With a single motion of his hand he could give the answer to a question that had not been asked. When I first met him, I did not respect him, he seemed simple and weak. Then I feared him, he was like a force of nature, the way he moved and the simple force his words could have in the way he spoke. Never raising his voice. The I learned to love him, and in a way, I carry his zen, even though there was no official transmission, and he was simply a Methodist. He was a zen buddhist and a taoist and did not know it. Things simply moved for him, he never needed to fight them. To this day, I hold the highest level of respect that I can for another human being for this man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041221
Would you suck his dick?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041221
And then you realized nobody gave a shit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041232
>>11041246

Have you read any of this thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041246
Taoism at its finest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041256

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041256
Answer the question

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041452
no

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041256
Yes. This thread is about how people don't give a shit about people don't give a shit.
I'm not even kidding.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11041502
the why are you busy giving a shit?

[Anonymous No.]

That feel when you realize the very first chapter of Zhuangzi was literally titled ''Taking it easy''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>11044931
That feel when the concept of taking it easy it too hard for you to understand

[Anonymous No.]

>>11045526
That feel when morons try to "understand the concept of taking it easy" instead of just taking it easy.

This thread is bananas and I haven't read any of it. Why won't you fucker post cute Miko?

[Anonymous No.]

>>11049322
wow you are sure is angry