/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

"Higurashi wouldn't have been born without Evangelion." - Ryukishi07

>Reporter: In what way have your works been influenced by EVA?

>Ryukishi07: It has taught me that there is a way to play a game by considering the world view. Things like, in the OP, what is the true nature of that shining man of which we only get a fleeting reflection? What is the Human Instrumentality Project? This way to play can be done for games, anime, etc. I've realized it can also be applied to stories. Perhaps, this way of playing considering the appearance of the world could be exerting a strong influence in "Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni". Higurashi only presented this way of playing once again, in that meaning, one could definitely say it's a work that wouldn't have been born without EVA.

>Reporter: Please express to us your thoughts and enthusiasm about EVA.

>Ryukishi07: As of yet I don't know the amount of influence that EVA has exerted on the game scenario. I can't really say how much of EVA has crossed over all the presentation and direction of the game. It's also a magnificent work, one that stands over the rest, and, perhaps, the way we've continued after it is a disappointment*. What can we take, what tales we'll be able to spin from this magnificent story? EVA was good, but when it ended ** it seems we haven't learned anything from it. To understand something from this work, and make games and anime with really interesting content well known, we will have to make a much stronger effort, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

"I started writing a novel becasue Evangelion" Kinoko Nasu

>Overall, the cause was because of watching the first episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion, which can't have been ignored by neither I nor my contemporaries. The story goes back to my high school days, where I met Takeuchi-kun. At the time I announced that I will become a novelist in the future, and Takeuchi-kun said he will become a manga artist, this was like the plot of some popular manga, and in reality we talked to each other quite a bit. Thinking back on it now, it was pretty embarrassing (laughs). Since then, we both graduated from college, Takeuchi-kun went to work at a game company, and I found a local job. I had the casual goal of "finding some time to write a novel," and I didn't notice my dream was slowly being buried while I lived idly as the day by day. Neon Genesis Evangelion was what gave me a big push in the back... or should I say kicked me and sent me flying. Not even the first episode itself, I felt my brain had been smacked hard after just watching the opening theme. My heart thought, how can someone think to bring the PV (Promotion Video) method to anime? How ideas can be expressed so freely in anime? "If there are people in this world who are so ahead of the rest, what am I still being confused about?" My heart was severely shocked. I supposed Eva has the charm and enthusiasm that makes people think "I have to do something." I'm sure of it. Instead of idly saying "when I have time next time," I should at least write something.

>Nasu also says NGE made him happy to be born in this age, and is the greatest entertainment. He says it is superior to other works in all aspects from graphic design, images, scenarios, film directing, music, freshness.

[Anonymous No.]

''We started playing Black/Thrash Metal because of Evangelion'' - Wastelander

[Catadioptric !TABOOsFSgI No.]

I'd be nothing without Asuka <3

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937542
Are you Wastelander? I'm in a death metal band and I love Evangelion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937528

>Nasu
>Him

Come on, man, at least try...

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937516
''We started playing Drum And Bass because of Evangelion'' - Anonymous

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937559

Maybe I should have used someone else.

What about ''I started playing the guitar because of Evangelion'' - Yngwie J. Malmsteen

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937577
Cool story bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937577
You've unleashed the fucking furry.

[Anonymous No.]

who r u qot XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937568
Dead genre. Dubstep of the mid-2000's

[Anonymous No.]

I want to rape everybody in the world.

[Anonymous No.]

U CAN (NOT) BE ANY LESS HRUT :DDD

i wreckt yure as so hard i triggird

THRID IMPACT

(in yo'ure fukin ass ROFL) :DDDDD

your so assanngst your'e taers r

truning in2 tang

(l8st just lik tang 2 LOL d-licious I hav a boner) :DDDDDD

EVANGELIOWNED :DDDDDDDDDDDD

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937516
Is this ZUN?

BTW why does /jp/ like Higurashi? Imo it's just stupid and childish, pseudodeep too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937602
Higurashi is genuis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937615
>>10937615
Don't you lie to me!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937600

2deep4u kid go and watch naruto while i enjoy this postmodernist physicological altruistic posthumanistic epicureanist eittgensteinian piece of art kiddo XD

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937725
FUG :D

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937542
>>10937545
>>10937566
>>10937568
>>10937577
>>10937582
>>10937589
>>10937591
>>10937599
>>10937600
>>10937602
>>10937615
>>10937680
>>10937725
>>10937767
Everything that is wrong with /jp/ is condensed in this thread. Ironic shitposting, Asuka fags, and Ryukishi free bashing.

You are truly the worst of the worst. If I was you, I would have killed myself long ago. Fortunately, I'm not you.

And before you ask, no, I'm not ironic. If I was you or as pathetic as you, I really think I would have tried to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937872
>tohopleb butthurt

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937872
Exactly, this board is beyond redemption.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937872
Amen.
How can we get rid of this human trash?

[Anonymous No.]

Ryukishi has taste. Evangelion is the greatest story to ever air on television.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937899
Report function of 4chan

Post hiding function of the 4chan extension of your choice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937872
>MUH TOUHOU

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937602
How is Higurashi pseudodeep?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937602
You watched the anime and dropped the novel halfway through, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938339
Just look at the opening.

[Anonymous No.]

EBIN threab :-DDDDD

A+++++

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937516
what the fuck is this guy even doing now? is he working on a new when they cry?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938348
What opening? Higurashi didn't have one, you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938353
Read Higanbana, it's great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938381
I don't like little girls.

[Anonymous No.]

At least half of modern otaku culture wouldn't exist without Eva, and the rest of it would be significantly different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938555
At least half of humanity wouldn't exist without Eve, and the rest of it would be significantly happier.

[Anonymous No.]

I played higurashi and umineko before watching evangelion (fail me, I know). I could definitely see the resemblance of the endings. Eva has my respect for inspiring great works like when they cry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938652
Pretty sure that would be closer to 99.9999999999999999999999%, though you're right about the rest being happier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938391
I pity you.

[Anonymous No.]

Rebuild sucks because today's animation looks too flawless, cheap and plastic.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't get why people keep saying Eva was SUPER REVOLUTIONARY TO ANIME and it completely changed everything. Is it something like how many people think RPGs wouldn't exist without Dragon Quest ('without Final Fantasy' for the truly ignorant ones)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938695
Adam was at fault too. Faggot wouldn't take responsability for his own actions.

And none of that would have happened in Lilith/Adam could have resolved their bed issues in peace.

Moral of the story: Everyone is an asshole.

[Anonymous No.]

The fact that Asuka's got an ass is just mindblowing.

She is so proud of herself, she relies so much in human inventions like dignity and pride. But she still has a silly looking human ass, she is just a lowly animal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938716
Eva is overrated, but it's still pretty damn good.

The story is poorly explained, though. In that sense, Evangelion is the Illusion of Gaia of anime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938695
>>10938723
Were they born as adults?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938748
Not a clue, ask YHWH. He is the one running this bedlam.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938748
From the information we're given in Genesis it is likely that Adam and Eve were created as adults, or at least in a state in which they could reason, understand, and communicate at a sufficient level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938745
>Illusion of Gaia
Good premise, abysmal execution and the most beautiful ending in SNES.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10937528
>. He says it is superior to other works in all aspects from graphic design, images, scenarios, film directing, music, freshness.
I completely agree

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938745
>Illusion of Gaia

80% of the problems are due to translation.

Do your reps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938723
Lilith is non-canon. Please keep your fanon out of Bible discussions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938764
I like to think of him as a videogame creator. Sometimes I look at people trying to find errors and glitches.

Yesterday, I saw a man waiting for the subway. Part of his hand was stuck through the seat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938770
>in a state in which they could reason, understand and communicate at a sufficient level
They were really dumb. A 9 years old could easily outsmart them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938787
>80%
I'd say 40%. The execution is still a mess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938818
Why were they dumb? Because they disobeyed God? The most intelligent people that have ever lived have done the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938775
I want to fuck Kara in the ass.

I have a thing for spoiled little girls. My first love was like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938832
Would you trust some shady talking snake that wants you to disobey God?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938849
People today trust any number of things: television, drug dealers, music, sexual urges, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938795
Did Adam and Eve wear fig leaves in canon?

If not, why were they naked all the time? Isn't nudity a sin? If it's not a sin, why is sex such a big deal for christians and why aren't children allowed to see naked people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938810
Hmm. Funny, I saw him as some sort of mix between artist and programmer. And first time parent.

"Surely my creations will follow simple logic and not try to backstab me!"

After the fall report: 1/3 of angels went traitors, mankind damned itself. Twice. Thanks a lot Cain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938866
Sin didn't exist before humanity was punished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938864
But people today are brainwashed. Adam and Eve were healthy humans.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, they were the only ones that could talk. Why didn't they realize that snakes are not supposed to talk?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938866
They wore leaves after they ate from the tree and realized their nudity and sin. Before they were without the knowledge of sin. Humanity didn't need to know of such things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938866
>why were they naked all the time?
They didn’t know shame and had no concept of right and wrong. After they ate from the apple, they unlocked the special features that God had restricted.
That’s what triggered God’s reaction, Adam and Eve started covering up their naughty bits because they suddenly knew shame after eating from the apple, God saw this and inquired.
This is Abrahamic religions 101

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938866
"Who told you that you were naked?" - YHWH

Apparently Humanity wasn't supposed to know it had its genitalia fully exposed. Maybe because we are bipedal? Who knows.

Or maybe it is not lewd unless you *know* it is lewd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938877
>But people today are brainwashed. Adam and Eve were healthy humans.

Adam and Eve were not corrupted but they were created with the free will to obey or disobey. We can only postulate so much about the mental state of people pre-Fall, though.

>Also, if I'm not mistaken, they were the only ones that could talk. Why didn't they realize that snakes are not supposed to talk?

Snakes were not the same prior to the Fall, as evidenced by God's punishment

Gen. 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

What they were like before that we don't really have the information to say.

>>10938883
Right, as Calvin puts it "that in our uncorrupted nature, there was nothing but what was honorable;"

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938872
If reincarnation is a lie, why am I being punished for something that Adam and Eve did? Do children go to hell if their parents are murderers?

>>10938880
>>10938883
How were they able to outsmart God? God knows everything. He knew they would do that.

>started covering up their naughty bits
>They wore leaves after they ate from the tree
Why do they wear leaves BEFORE eating the apple in many children's books? Are they trying to confuse the kids?

I mean, nudity is shameful because Adam and Eve ate from the tree. That's what children must understand. They will get confused if they see Adam and Eve wearing leaves before the incident.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938894
So... God is spying on naked people and that's why he doesn't want them to realize that they are naked?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938958
Think about it: If you trusted your kids, would you need to go around reading their secret diaries or stalking them? Imagine the disappointment.

Being god must be very depressing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938958
Please don't think too hard about genesis, none of the stories are to be taken literally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938958
>Why do they wear leaves BEFORE eating the apple in many children's books? Are they trying to confuse the kids?
Well, we are all burdened with the original sin so for us, uncovered naughty bits are lewd, no matter what.

>>10938958
>Do children go to hell if their parents are murderers?
Gods ways, man. But on the topic of Hell, if you believe Calvinist scum, people go to hell if they don’t amass large sums of cash. Well, it’s more like the cause and effect are reversed, people that are predestined to go to Heaven will also be successful in life. Predestination a shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938958
>If reincarnation is a lie, why am I being punished for something that Adam and Eve did?

Adam was appointed as the federal head of mankind, as Christ is the federal head of the redeemed.

>How were they able to outsmart God? God knows everything. He knew they would do that.

Of course he knew it. The Fall was part of God's plan to glorify himself through the salvation of his elect and the punishment of the reprobate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938975
I think God knows everything even if he doesn't want to.

>>10938978
What am I being punished for if that story is bullshit? What the hell did they actually do to anger God?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938993
You aren't being punished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938986
Hold it broseph. That line of thought makes God to be plain malevolent.

The humans would have followed his rules just fine if and only if nobody came along and lied to them.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die."

Satan was simply screwing up God's pet project.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939001
He is, depending on your religious affiliations.

[Anonymous No.]

Excessive interest in Evangelion is like the anime taste equivalent of fedoras.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938982
>But on the topic of Hell, if you believe Calvinist scum, people go to hell if they don’t amass large sums of cash. Well, it’s more like the cause and effect are reversed, people that are predestined to go to Heaven will also be successful in life. Predestination a shit.

I am a Calvinist and this is not Calvinist teaching. The idea that there is some specific earthly reward that will be unlocked for obedience is not biblical teaching, cf. Job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939019
>I am a Calvinist and this is not Calvinist teaching
Tell that to the northern European calvinist societies that went full Jew.
Predestination in protestantism is disgusting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939014
>Hold it broseph. That line of thought makes God to be plain malevolent.

Not it does not. Why do you think it does?

>The humans would have followed his rules just fine if and only if nobody came along and lied to them.

There is absolutely no way to ever prove that. It's a baseless claim.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938982
Why are lewd things such a big deal in today's society? Even the most hardcore atheist will be horrified at a little girl seeing a pair of boobs on TV or doing anything remotely sexual. "It's even worse than murder and violence!"

Where do his christian morals come from if he is an atheist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939027
Please demonstrate that it is Calvinist teaching that salvation is always rewarded with earthly wealth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938993
They failed to take responsibility for their own shit. Woman, for manipulating man and not keeping him away from what is bad. Man, for listening to the woman not doing his duty.

Making excuses is the reason for the fall, not the eating the fruit deal. If you noticed the language in the passages, before making his judgement, God's lines are quite recconciliatory. When he gets to Satan he sounds pissed off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938986
I don't remember voting for Adam.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939038
That's because it was God's decision, not yours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939014
Is Satan on the same level as God? Why didn't God know about his meddling? Why can't God just kill him for good?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939034
Television.

Most people don't realize that all their morals and beliefs come from religion + TV.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939052
No.
He did.
Satan will be punished for eternity in Hell along with the damned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939034
>Where do his christian morals come from if he is an atheist?
Even if he doesn’t believe in the religion, it’s a big influence on our culture. This is not difficult.

>>10939035
You’re dodging the main issue here. Which is predestination itself. That’s a disgusting concept.
Anyway, Calvin’s original theological philosophy and Calvinism are not necessarily the same just like Confucian thought and Confucianism are not identical.
http://www.econ.upf.edu/~alaoui/alaoui_sandroni_predestination_protestantethics.pdf

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939052
No. Faggot tried a coup, failed hard.

12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.

13 And thou saidst in thy heart: the heavens I go up, Above stars of God I raise my throne, And I sit in the mount of meeting in the sides of the north.

14 I go up above the heights of a thick cloud, I am like to the Most High.

15 Only -- unto Sheol thou art brought down, Unto the sides of the pit.

Maybe God didn't have it in him to destroy his own works? God is quite paternal (he likes to be called Abba, after all).

Rather than smiting, he prefered mankind to simply grow old and die. And perhaps to prove a point that I am not entirely certain of what it is. Mysterious ways and all that jazz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939083
To be honest, I didn’t really get the whole Satan thing until I read Tolkien’s Silmarillion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939036
Why was Eve written as the bad guy?

Why do modern christians keep updating Jesus's personality? I'm pretty sure he considered women inferior to men, didn't believe in democracy and had many "unacceptable" opinions just like every other guy from his time.

Why do christians believe that Jesus was a feminist, etc.? Did Jesus approve of homosexuality a century ago?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939109
>Why do modern christians keep updating Jesus's personality?
Because we have been doing that since the apostles wrote down the gospels.
> I'm pretty sure he considered women inferior to men, didn't believe in democracy and had many "unacceptable" opinions just like every other guy from his time.
Why do you think Jesus thought women were inferior? The reason Jesus can be seen as soft and progressive is because of his role as a savior. There are many stories in the Bible of Jesus mingling with the scum of society and lower people through his role of savior.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939083
God killed plenty of humans though, who were also his creation.

[Anonymous No.]

Was Jesus brown?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939109
Both Adam and Eve are at fault. Thus why both of them get screwed.

>Why do modern christians keep updating Jesus's personality? I'm pretty sure he considered women inferior to men, didn't believe in democracy and had many "unacceptable" opinions just like every other guy from his time.

>Why do christians believe that Jesus was a feminist, etc.? Did Jesus approve of homosexuality a century ago?

Quote it. I don't think I ever read any of his lines saying anything about homosexuality or treating women in any ill way. Hell, the last thing he did before he died was making sure his mother was properly taken care of. Having your first born son die was very hard for a widow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939069
>Even if he doesn’t believe in the religion, it’s a big influence on our culture.
Why don't atheists reject values derived from religion? Maybe they don't know where they actually came from? Why even very intelligent people don't realize this? They are often huge "moralfags".

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939130
He was most likely pretty tan, yes.
Ignore afrocentrist christians and ignore stormfront christians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10938353
Right now, he's working on Rose Guns Days. It has nothing to do with the When they Cry series tho, afaik.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939083
That passage does not refer to Satan. Many people think it does, but it doesn't make sense in context.

For that matter, a lot of things modern Christianity believes about Satan are a combination of misinterpreted things and complete bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939124
The situation grew increasingly unsalvageable.

"The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

If you knew what would come after, would you allow them to grow even worse or wipe the slate clean?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939137
I don’t see the issue. Much of our culture is also a remnant of pre-Christian European society.
I’m not religious but I can’t deny the influence of the specific local breed of Catholic tradition on me I guess.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939154
Then who would it refer to?
Enoch? ZUN?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939034
People keep claiming that prudishness comes from Christianity. It's complete bullshit. We spent over 1500 years without being prudes, even though life was dominated by The Church at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939161
3 On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury[a] has ended!
5 The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
8 Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”

9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
(passage continues as described in >>10939083)

Isaiah 14 refers to a Babylonian king, not Satan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939125
>Because we have been doing that since the apostles wrote down the gospels.
How can people believe in all this Jesus bullshit? Everything about him has been rewritten over and over again to make him socially acceptable. Why do christians ignore this?

>Jesus can be seen as soft and progressive
Why were christians the complete opposite until a few decades ago? Was Jesus portrayed as an asshole before that? I don't get it.

>>10939131
>I don't think I ever read any of his lines saying anything about homosexuality or treating women in any ill way.
Why did christians (a huge part of society) hate homosexuality for a long while? Jesus didn't say a thing about that.

Seriously, how could a man from that time be so progressive? It's like he's a man from the 2000's who went back in time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939202
Jesus Christ huehue you ass, as I said, it’s through his role as savior. He associated with drunks, prostitutes, gamblers, tax levers, Roman occupiers. He was there to save humanity, and they are human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939150
>I don't see the issue
I do. It's the worst part of today's society.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939217
Were the remnants of pre-Christian society the worst part of Europe as it has been throughout its centuries of Christianity?
You see an issue because you’re misguided as fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939179
Where does it come from, then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939202
>How can people believe in all this Jesus bullshit? Everything about him has been rewritten over and over again to make him socially acceptable. Why do christians ignore this?

What are you referring to? The extant copies of the gospels we have are close to their original composition dates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939190
>Isaiah 14 refers to a Babylonian king, not Satan.
But that passage is up for interpretation, no?

Also, which "Satan" are you talking about - the tempter sent by Yahweh to test humans, or the being known as Lucifer who rebelled against his own Creator?

(You see, this is why the English language sucks, and if one truly wanted to analyze the Bible, you would point towards the original Hebrew and Greek texts instead)

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939243
And Aramaic to be complete.

[Anonymous No.]

>Bible
>Logical
You guys do know it says in the Old Testament that if a man rapes a woman, she has to marry him, and he has to pay her father for "damaging his property", right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939310
More like, he has to marry her and therefore provide for her, since other men would not marry her since she's not virginal.
It’s thousands year old desert morality and it got a little update with less thousand year old desert morality which then got a downgrade with only centuries year old desert morality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939310
So?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939333
If you're going to advocate other Biblical laws, you should advocate them all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939343
Let me know where the Bible says that all nations are obligated to follow the judicial laws given only to ancient Israel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939243
Lucifer isn't Satan; it's not even a single person. It isn't even a name. I don't know why people don't get this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939363
Because there's a difference between judicial law and moral law.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939355
Exactly, it doesn't.
Therefore, why do people use the Bible to provide "proof" of their bigoted viewpoint?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939222
Yeah, but bible translations make [gg] look good in comparison. The text you read most likely deeply reflects the personal opinions of the translator.
And it's not like anyone bases their beliefs on the bible anymore to begin with. Even the protestants have their heads full of bullshit ideas nowadays. Religious leaders have taken the faith in the direction they want it to go and blatantly ignore parts of the book they don't like.

Christianity in the form it is preached in the bible suits a very nomadic society and is very unsuitable for daily life in the civilised world, so I do believe the changes are for the best, but they are still bullshit and I contend the opinions of the westboro baptists are more respectable than the horribly confused modern christianity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939377
>Yeah, but bible translations make [gg] look good in comparison. The text you read most likely deeply reflects the personal opinions of the translator.

Yes I'm sure you know better than scholars of biblical Greek and Hebrew. Anyway the original language text still exists and many people learn the relevant languages to interact with it directly. Your claim that "Jesus has been rewritten over and over again" is nonsense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939358
The idea of an angel cast from heaven is too complex to deride as you do. Save your stupid condescension.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939406
What are going on about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939429
What >>10939243 refers to when he says "being known as Lucifer" he means the Christian idea of an angel that lost its grace and was cast from heaven. Lucifer not being an original word from the Bible but a one-instance word that was translated as Lucifer in Latin doesn’t mean shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939406
The entire 'angel cast from heaven' thing is bullshit made up from misinterpretation of >>10939083.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939440
Yeah, centuries of Judaist and Christian concepts of the fallen angel is really just a misinterpretation of one single passage and not part of a complex allegoric model.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939439
I don't know how else to explain it to you. Lucifer isn't a name. The Shining One refers to the King of Babylon; you know, the person (actually persons) that entire passage is clearly talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

Heathens get out. /jp/ has been consecrated to our Lord Jesus Christ and is not to be polluted with your evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939468
That’s one version of Jewish thought, and the fallen angel is another.
As I said, save your condescending attitude and appreciate the complexity of religious history.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939479
Rather than just going 'you're wrong, but it's too complicated for you to understand why', why don't you give us some arguments as to why the 'fallen angel' interpretation of that passage makes any sense?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939479
I'm not being condescending. If those scriptures are referring to Satan, then why does it say he wants to go up to the heavens even though he already was in the heavens. He wasn't cast out until a future time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939220
1600s Puritanism, imo. Though I could be wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939491
It’s an idea that has existed in Judaism since God knows when. Rather than that passage, the idea of the fallen angel is what I'm defending.

[Anonymous No.]

What's going on in this thread?

お兄さん、怖いよ…

[Anonymous No.]

in defense of the fallen angel interpretation, from Rev. 12 (NASB):

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

2 and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

12 For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939562
Don't worry, Jesus will save you!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939570
Jesus will save only his elect.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939591
The Bible is quite clear that salvation is only for those chosen by God in eternity past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939586
Fuck off, Calvinist scum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939591
You aren't among the elect. So sorry. Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939568
But that's at the end of time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939599
Only your ilk interprets it in such a perverted way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939609
There's no other legitimate way to interpret it. As Christ says to the unbeliever, "Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep." Only those whom the Father his given to Christ will come to faith.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939568
Considering that John is writing down a prophecy, wouldn't it make sense that the things he wrote down hadn't happened yet? Where in the OT does it talk about this event? How does this passage prove that "Lucifer" is this fallen angel?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939038
you don't get to vote in a dictatorship, what all the religions are about. you're expected to be a slave until the end of your life, and then maybe as a reward you'll get to see the dictator himself.

but after that, you go back to your slavery, except now it's eternal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939817
Yes we are creatures of God and he may do with us as he pleases. "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939358
lucifer isn't even a being or existence. the whole idea was spawned from a mistranslation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939817
A dictator takes control of lives that were already there. God created the people he rules over. Would you rather you didn't exist at all?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939568
>a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
why would a dragon wear diadems? was it a faggot, or a 'queen'?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939860
i don't see it like that. i interpret it as being the children of god rather than pawns.

and so, as the god's child i'd rather follow in his footsteps than rot in heaven for eternity like some ascended neet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939862
I know. That's why I said it wasn't a name. I know it's simply a term -- shining one -- but it's what the "king of Babylon" thinks of himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939886
A metaphor, obtuse-kun. It implies that a terrible being has great power. Maybe absolute one over his reign. Cannot be opposed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939926
but then why didn't it say crowns? crown is a symbol of kingship. a diadem is a woman's item.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939907
Look into Eastern Orthodoxy and theosis, the process of becoming united with God. St. Athanasius: "The Son of God became man, that we might become god."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_%28Eastern_Orthodox_theology%29

[Anonymous No.]

>>10939935
Translation. Some say crowns. Other says diadems. At any rate, it implies rulership.

Ezek. 21:26
Isa. 28:5; 62:3

[Anonymous No.]

YHWH worshippers please go