/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Cave Story

[Anonymous No.]

Sometimes I listen to the music and it makes me cry.

I don't know what it was about this game. It wasn't particularly deep or original, but it hit a very specific tone that resonated with me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914640
i-is this a feel culture otaku feelpost??

[Anonymous No.]

i wish i could make a metroidvania type game and sell it and make money so i can be forever neet

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914668
Do you know my feel?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914668
Hell no and I'm sure it so isn't, and I don't understand his post much either since you can avoid the various sad/"bad endings" anyway, but...

I think this's a cave story thread

Or something

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914683

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914679
>metroidvania
You mean "side-scrolling adventure game"
>neet
nope. Get back to work, slave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914690
That GIF sure took me for a ride!

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - obsessive compulsion to shit all over its own userbase and subject matter

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.autofish.net/clysm/art/video_games/seiklus/

[Anonymous No.]

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/pc/doukutsumonogatari

[Anonymous No.]

Are there any decent /jp/ related games nowadays? I've got a PS3, PSP, and a DS.

I enjoyed corpse party, but haven't really played anything since. I hear IB is good, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914714

>autistcalm

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914723
who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

Seiklus was great.
Cave Story not so much.

[Anonymous No.]

I hate this guy, but that wasn't half bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1emSWVcSu8s

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914714
http://icycalmisacriminal.wordpress.com/

(This isn't meant to portray him in a negative way, I just think that anybody who knows him would enjoy reading it. It's not spread around enough - you can tell that by the fact that people still call him icycalm or Alex instead of Anthony.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914789
Oh no, he's playing it on his 3DS...

[Anonymous No.]

Cave Story fills me with a similar feel to some early 90s thing. Maybe made in CG.

Something like Clangers.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Little Nemo /jp/ related? I wish I could be like him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3QRWdullo

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914819
I liked Diabetus's Let's Play of this.

>2012

Never mind, you're one of those NEW Let's Play types...

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914831
2012 what? I don't even watch those crappy new viral let's plays full of le epic meme, and what I linked is a song, not a LP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914831
There are plenty of good LPs still coming out. Geop's Dark Souls LP was great and Chip and Ironicus just started MGR:R, not to mention everything the meat race goons have done.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914714
>>10914723
He's a faggot but his review of Cave Story is spot-on. Same with that piece of shit Braid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914847
>>linking le gamer songs

OMG is this about a NES game?!

So retro!
#win
#oldschool
#upvotes

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914851
Duane and BrandO have been around before /jp/ was created, dude. I remember reciting their Final Fantasy thing by heart years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914851
I think that's just catchy, what's wrong with that? Those guys play only the games they like anyway, fans made a shitstorm about having a song about pokémon and all they got was this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REwHp9ePs18

Anyway I don't even like them that much, if I have to constantly care about what's too mainstream to hear/play instead of just enjoying things for what they are I don't know what should I do.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914855
The review is terrible. The only legitimate point made is that people over-hyped Cave Story because of its indie game status. Cave Story survives on its own merits quite soundly. It's not a perfect game, but it's good, and worth playing.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914891
Also, if he played through three hours of the game without beating it, then he fucking sucks at platformers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914891
No, it's mediocre shit that can't live up to the past games it's trying to emulate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914855
I have to disagree with his review.

> And, at least as far as the basics are concerned, it
> stands up next to them admirably, with perfect controls,
> imbued with just the right touch of inertia, suitably
> exciting movement speed and jumping properties, and
> even a brilliant weapon-switching/power-up system

I disagree with this entire section. The controls in that
game were horrendous. The inertia was all fucked up to
hell, causing the game to be significantly more difficult
than it should have been. This is then compounded by the
system where the game punishes you for failing by
degrading your weapons to the point that they are
unusable. And the reviewer praises that aspect. Fuck that
shit. Fuck that shit 100%.

On top of this, the guy goes on about how the game's
difficulty curve is broken, stating that it's too easy. Too
easy? Nigger, that shit was too hard. I died dozens of
times on my way to that underwater green hairy eyeball
shit, and then died maybe ten times fighting his ass. I
never even beat him, I just gave up at that point. The
game was almost entirely unrewarding to play, and every
minute was cruel punishment.

Fuck cave story. Cave story a shit. Never again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914904
I don't really see the sense in being bad at a genre and complaining about it being too easy.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914901
You are mediocre shit that can't live up to the level of former /jp/ posters. Cave Story is an imperfect, but fun, game that got over-hyped and over-exposed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914891
This.

If it was some art game that was only seen as good because of the hype, I'd agree, but Cave Story is a damn enjoyable game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914901
the controls are fine.
the graphics are bad due to their lazy style, okay. so you don't like the art style. thats fine- I don't either.
the music is fine
the pacing of the game is fine
commonly cited is the game's difficulty, but the old platformers it makes homage to are also easy

I don't know where you get off saying that this is a mediocre game, or that the games it tries to "emulate" are better.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914916
>I don't really see the sense in being bad at a genre and complaining about it being too easy.

It's called making points in a review that contradict with each other, because you are a shitty reviewer. If it took him 3 hours to get as far as he did and he didn't even see the end of the game, he sucks at platformers. If he sucks at platformers, then him complaining that it's easy is just him eating dick and trying to make it sound like he isn't eating dick.

He's a flaming faggot, but he wants to sound good about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914917
>You are mediocre shit that can't live up to the level of former /jp/ posters.

Epic.

>Cave Story is an imperfect, but fun, game that got over-hyped and over-exposed.

You're damn right it's imperfect, and it's competing with games in a genre that in numerous cases are perfect. What is it compared to Super Mario World, or Super Metroid, or any other great side scroller? It's mediocre shit. Good is relative to its peers and having some fun with it doesn't make it good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914918
I see complaints about the controls a lot, but I thought they were tight as heck. I guess different people have their own preferences, and Cave Story just happened to fit mine perfectly?

>>10914929
Was it really difficult? Sacred Grounds, granted, but the rest of the game?
I suck at video games and on my second and subsequent play-throughs I never died once.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914938
>Good is relative to its peers and having some fun with it doesn't make it good.

Jesus Christ, do you drink PBR and wear a shitty hat that's too small for your head? I haven't read anything that hipster in a while.

If it isn't LE SUPREME, it is LE SHITE!

Also, comparing the game to Super Mario World merely shows that you think nothing of being ignorant of genre mixing when doing comparisons.

Back to /v/ with you, underage retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914951
>Jesus Christ, do you drink PBR and wear a shitty hat that's too small for your head? I haven't read anything that hipster in a while.
>If it isn't LE SUPREME, it is LE SHITE!

Srsly epic bro upboat +1

>Also, comparing the game to Super Mario World merely shows that you think nothing of being ignorant of genre mixing when doing comparisons.

Yes let's wall it off as narrowly as possible so we don't have to compare it to too many games that are far better than it is. Must protect the precious indie game! I'm surprised you didn't dismiss my post because I compared it to non-indie games. You retards are all the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>play the Aeon Genesis translation
>>have lots of fun

>>years later
>>proficient in Japanese
>>play the original version
>>not as fun

Proof that English makes games better, no matter what hipsters say.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914963
>I'm surprised you didn't dismiss my post because I compared it to non-indie games.

It's a fair comparison. Just because it's made by one guy, doesn't mean it shouldn't stand on its own merits.

But you're trying to compare Cave Story to Super Mario World. The only way they're related is that they both use jumping and things you stand on. You might as well be saying that being a lawyer is the same as being a defendant, judge, prosecutor, or court observer, just because you happen to all be in the same room at the same time.

In other words, you are dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914948
no dude, people say the game is too easy
and they're right

but thats just what you get, playing most old platformers

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914963
Forget that Cave Story is an indie game for a second. What didn't you like about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914966
Is the Japanese language limiting? I always feel that way when I compare English to Russian.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914976
Do you believe that Russian or English is limiting? I ask because I know a little Russian, so I'd like a second opinion on my own thoughts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914979
I think English is more limiting than Russian. It seems like a primitive language in comparison. Native speaker, but I learned English when I was young as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914972
That's what I thought, but I see people on /jp/ saying the game was difficult. Usually because of the controls.

I think it compares to Super Mario World quite well. An easy, relaxing game, with an optional, pretty difficult secret area for more advanced players.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914972
revisionism at its finest

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914971
>But you're trying to compare Cave Story to Super Mario World. The only way they're related is that they both use jumping and things you stand on. You might as well be saying that being a lawyer is the same as being a defendant, judge, prosecutor, or court observer, just because you happen to all be in the same room at the same time.

Utter stupidity. No point continuing here.

>>10914975
I never evaluated it separately as an indie game, as others seem to do. I was comparing it to other similar games to put it in wider perspective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914988
no no, people on /jp/ are just bad at games
if they were enthusiasts of any specific type of game (and thus good players) they wouldn't be typing here, but instead on community forums for said games.

>>10914982
I don't understand what you're trying to say here

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10914990
>Utter stupidity. No point continuing here.

Yes, you have proved your stupidity utterly and conclusively.

>I think it compares to Super Mario World quite well.

Only in atmosphere. The mechanics are quite different, as is the focus of gameplay and maps. And people who whine about Cave Story's control responses are people I can't understand. I've played platformers with input delays, something Cave Story doesn't have. Movement inertia is a part of lots of other games. Once you get the jetpack, landing jumps is cake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914990
Okay, then what is so bad about it compared to Super Mario World or Super Metroid?

If this game was released on the SNES when I was a kid, I would have loved it. In fact it reminds me a little of Skyblazer, which is a game I loved as a child but not too many people seem to care about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915005
> Movement inertia is a part of lots of other games.
And their controls suck too.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915016
If you're saying Cave Story's controls suck, then please explain why. They're quite simple. You aim in a direction, that's the direction you fire. It's also the direction that you jetpack toward. You push in a particular direction to activate things and talk to people. Another direction to go between platform layers. You have a status screen with items. You change your weapon with two buttons.

Bam. That's it. That's all you need to know.

If I was playing the game with an SNES controller, it would only use two of the buttons and the top shoulder buttons.

What is so fucking difficult about that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915005
>Only in atmosphere.

They are very different games, but I feel like the structure was overall the same. Go play Super Mario World and get to the Special World. I get the same impression I get when I beat Cave Story and make it to the Sacred Ground. Otherwise, they're fairly straightforward platformers that aren't too difficult but are a whole lot of fun.
Of course, the individual parts are way different. In Mario you were pretty much running left to right, maybe taking a key backwards in one or two levels. Cave Story had more exploring, but I still think it's a bit silly that people compare it to the Metroidvania games. Sure there was some searching around and revisiting past areas, but it's not like you were saying, "Oh, I'd better try those doors when I get the <x> powerup!" (except for maybe the mushroom side quest).

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915034
> Bam. That's it. That's all you need to know.
Controlling in a game is not just about knowing what buttons do what. You have to actually be able to properly control your character. When you're sliding around on every god damn surface like it's covered in soap, shit isn't controllable. Also, the gravity was fucked up or something, I don't remember, it's been a while. But the two things I remember clearly are "soapy as fuck floors everywhere" and "controls like shit".

So, with these fucked up controls, you fuck up quite frequently. Fine. But what happens when you fuck up in Cave Story? It punishes you by making it even harder to progress, via downgrading of weapons.

And then to top it all off, the game wasn't fun.

So it's boring, long, and tedious. For this, it receives none of my praise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915067
whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah

so, you think cave story is a bad game

sure, okay. and your reasoning is

because its TOO HARD?

what the fuck am I reading

[Anonymous No.]

Gosh darn this thread is really unpleasant right now... please let's introduce harmony.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915067
So the reason you don't like the game is... because you're bad at it, due to not understanding the mechanics? Which are quite easy, and are made easier once you get the jetpack or the machine gun? And power-up triangles practically FLOW like water 1/3 of the way through the game?

I love you, /jp/. Never improve.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915091
As an addendum, I bet you complained about ice stages as a kid. To no one in particular. Before you gave up and mommy bought another game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915067
I thought the controls were fine. A little bit floaty, but they made the game easier rather than harder.

As for downgrading weapons, well, that was a penalty for being hit. That's how games work. It becomes less of an issue later in the game (with particular weapons) and frankly I wish it was more of a big deal later on. You get that one power-up that halves your experience loss, and then you find yourself wishing you'd get hit more so you could pick up those triangles.

[Anonymous No.]

was the gravity low because it was on an island in the sky

would that make much of a difference

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915079
It's too hard to make any good progress, and the game overall isn't enjoyable to play, it's more of a chore. If I wanted to work, I'd get a job and make money for doing so.

>>10915091
You're an eyesore. Frequently I read posts under the White Ren trip under threads like this one, as well as threads about Ever17 and its worthless garbageness siblings. Every time, the poster is an absolute eyesore. It's always you, isn't it? Why are you so afraid of me? What is the cause of this fear? I know the reason you lash out at me is because of fear, but what is it fear of? Fear that you're not me? Fear that you'll never be me no matter how hard you try? Or is it fear that your cheeks will never flap as rapidly as mine?

>>10915122
> a penalty for being hit
That entire mechanic is retarded. It's like getting game over for running out of lives. Games are getting rid of the limited lives shit, and it's a good thing that they are doing so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915154
the main character being a robot also helped the jumping height

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915154
Have you ever been on a plane? Your body does feel a bit lighter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915166
But that wouldn't affect the gravity, retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915167
Are you stupid? If anything, you'd be heavier, because the distance means the Earth is pulling harder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915161
>That entire mechanic is retarded. It's like getting game over for running out of lives. Games are getting rid of the limited lives shit, and it's a good thing that they are doing so.

Not really. You could say the same about health bars. "This variable decreases every time I'm hit and when it hits 0, I have to start over?! What bullshit!"
Cave Story encouraged you to explore and find max health powerups so you'd live longer, health pickups to not die, and experience pickups to make your weapons stronger. It discouraged you from jumping into enemies because that would lower your health and experience, at least until you got the hang of the game and got the best weapons (and the Arms Barrier).

I thought it was really neat. It was like a Skinner box I guess, except the rewards and punishments felt rewarding or punishing. And in either case you were responsible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915179
This. If you go to the center of the Earth, you float because the gravity is balanced in all directions. The further away from the Earth, the less you float.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914714
Fun fact: he constantly searches message boards for mentions of him and then anonymously defends himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915195
No I don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915179
>>10915188
I guess I'm stupid and I still don't understand how that works even now that you've pointed it out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915188
If you were in the center of the earth wouldn't the pressure just crush you or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915210
No, you sort of orbit the center and it's super annoying. My dad did it.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915161
>as well as threads about Ever17 and its worthless garbageness siblings.

Oh, so you're the same faggot that had equally pointless non-opinions in those threads. I would say it's surprising, but I'd be lying.

>Fear that you're not me? Fear that you'll never be me no matter how hard you try?

You are small time. Do you even lift?

[Anonymous No.]

Awful game.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915289
Yet, you are the most awful thing about all of this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915294
Hey, that isn't a very nice thing to say. I think you should apologise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915257
I can tell you're deathly afraid of me. And what's worse is
that, no matter how much you claim I'm wrong, you know
that I'm right. This knowledge is a deep dark secret that
haunts you every passing moment. You're afraid of me
because you're afraid of the truth. You even admitted so to
me in a private message!

> Look, alright man, just leave it be. I'm wrong, okay. I
> accept it. You're right. I'm wrong. We both know this, but
> they don't. They think I really mean what I say, even if I
> don't. Please man, they can't know my true self. My
> public image is extremely important to me. Please.
>
> By the way, don't tell anyone I sent you this.
>
> Thanks for understanding.

How comical! How comical! Your true power has been
revealed! Your public image is already in shambles. I can
see the grapevine lighting up with rumors abound. Accept
the truth publicly, 4chan Intellectual! Accept it publicly and
return! Return...to Realitydom!

[Anonymous No.]

Everybody should try La-Mulana. Brilliant game.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915310
What are you? Eleven?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915294
Deal with it, nerd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915328
Awful game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915367
What did you just say there?

[Anonymous No.]

Sequel when

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915331
I see your fear is increasing, 4chan Intellectual. And all
the while, your public image is doing just the opposite.

Your fear of me and my power is increasing, but you are
also showing signs of fear in other areas. You're afraid.
Deathly afraid. Not just of me, but of the rumors on the
grapevine. You know there are rumors there because I
told you there are (and, within your heart, you accepted
this instantly, because your heart is well aware of the
absolute correctness I exert from my cheeks on a
regular basis). But what's more is that you know there
rumors are no ordinary rumors; they're dark rumors.
Extremely dark. Extreme omega ultimatum of the whispy
supremacy calooby dark. You have an idea of what these
rumors are about, but you're trying to shut this idea out
of your mind. Unfortunately for you, there is no escaping
it any longer. These rumors are about you. About your
gigabits. About your girlfriend. About your location in
accordance with your keyboard. Yes. You know what
these rumors are now. But what you don't know is who
started them, and that will truly shock you. It's the end of
the line for you, as well as your public image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915398
Pixel doesn't do sequels. He does rehashes, then makes shitty iPhone minigames.

I hate you, Pixel. You broke my heart.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10915403
>About your gigabits.

It's considered rude to discuss a little girl's gigabits.

>>10915344
Get bent, super spaz.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915257
>You are small time. Do you even lift?

nice roast

[Anonymous No.]

N.B.: "White Ren!fluffyWhATever" is a public tripcode whose users all reply to themselves anonymously and as other tripfaggots.

[Most Ichiban Len's Girlfriend !!mcNUCVoNCPI No.]

>>10916522
How quaint!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915505
Well at least Gero Blaster will be available for the 3DS. I am thankful for that.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I missing something? I thought /jp/ liked Cave Story. Or is it too popular now and we have to be contrarians in order to bolster a meaningless sense of superiority?

It's a very good game. Not incredible, but it's fun and surprisingly engaging. It knows what it wants to do and does it well. Also, it reminded me of Commander Keen, which I played so much when I was a kid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916575
it's fine, but some folks who use these kinds of boards (called "imageboards" or "futaba-style" boards) make a big point to trash or misrepresent everything they can while they're on here, often so much so that they lose sight of their other priority which is to attention-whore from inside an anonymous username

[Anonymous No.]

is icycalm in this thread? I love that guy, the only decent videogames blogger/reviewer out there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916575
>I thought /jp/ liked Cave Story.
I think that the more active /jp/ posters don't actually play much video games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916619
The active /jp/ posters are too busy shitposting to do anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916606
He sounds like a pretentious /v/-grade faggot whose only appeal is his pandering to the insipid contrarians just like him. All critics and reviewers are fucking garbage. They either exaggerate their ignorant praise or overblow their bias, all the while polarizing idiots who are too dumb to think for themselves.

>>10916619
/jp/ plays video games. Probably not a lot, but I know Pixel had some fans here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916606
Oh, he's here alright.
Look in the mirror.

[Space Flower !JLY7OHoMIg No.]

>>10915007
Exactly. I'm no nostalgia fan--I now dislike maybe 80% of the 80s/90s games I used to love. Only the gems like Mario and Metroid remain, the 1 in a 100 games. The fact that I love Cave Story now means it would have been perfection to me as a kid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10915161
I've never seen someone so narcissistic and retarded without a trip on. Congrats.
I like how the people dissing on this can't agree on objective reasons why it's bad. Case in point: One anon keeps mentioning the penalty for being hit is stupid, while another is saying the game is way too easy because you get a boatload of hit points.

The fact that these opinions contradict proves that their arguments are subjective and therefore invalid in a critical sense. Also to the former: stop sucking at easy-ass games like Cave Story. To the latter: Ever metroid game ever gives you a boatload of hit points that are impossible to lose unless it's your first metroid or you suck. Anyone who claims to be good at metroidvanias won't be complaining about hit points. If you're truly good, health is a non-issue because you won't get hit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10920960
> The fact that these opinions contradict proves that their arguments are subjective and therefore invalid in a critical sense.
Are you saying that a review is invalid if it contains personal subjective views? Seriously now, who are you trying to fool with such an idiotic comment?

[Anonymous No.]

I still haven't beaten that final level after the three-part boss for the good end. I pretty much just gave up.

[Anonymous No.]

Total shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10922299
It's one of those things that gets fairly easy after the first time you beat it.

I was pleased with that boss. He's super scary the first thirty times, then you learn his patterns, slow down a little, and before you know it you're defeating him without using your Life Pot.

[Anonymous No.]

brump

[Anonymous No.]

Cave story is fun and easy after the first playthrough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10916672
>He sounds like a pretentious /v/-grade faggot whose only appeal is his pandering to the insipid contrarians just like him. All critics and reviewers are fucking garbage. They either exaggerate their ignorant praise or overblow their bias, all the while polarizing idiots who are too dumb to think for themselves.

He says some things which are actually valuable. Contrarians are a good thing as they exist to challenge the status quo and spread viewpoints that you may not have considered. You don't have to agree with everything they say.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926871
>He says some things which are actually valuable.
Please tell us what he says that is actually valuable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926912
His essay on arcade culture, particularly the sections explaining the player / game producer / shop owner trichotomy and how it leads to quality games and skilled players. I also thought his explanation of how JRPGs came to exist as they are now, as a consequence of anachronistic western influence, to be insightful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926944
That article is pretty much a perfect example of what is meant by "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." Most of Icycalm's ramblings are idiotic nonsense, but every single word of that article is absolutely perfect in every way.
People tend to have an aversion to that article especially, though, since it calls a lot of people out AND is accurate.

[Anonymous No.]

I played cave story before it was popular

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926958
Yeah I agree that a large portion of what he says is nonsense, but there's definitely some quality insights buried in there. You should give his article on RPGs a read if you haven't already. I don't agree with everything he says, particularly all of his derision of JRPGs, but it's a very good article notwithstanding.

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/

Anyway, I think the guy clearly knows his shit in several areas, but he lets his narcissism and personal bias get in the way of producing more quality material.

[Anonymous No.]

Most of his articles make a good point and tend to be right, but does he have to call people dumb?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926990
Well, that's why the arcade article is so good. The statements he makes in it are all completely accurate, and the people he insults in it all deserve to be insulted. Usually, that's not the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926990
Yeah that's one of my primary complaints. His articles would be so much better if he would just write them professionally. It would really help his credibility.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927001
But I will say that I agree with >>10926999 that his insults are sometimes called for. It just seems like the guy's too much of a narcissist to tell the difference between when he should use them or when not to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926944
>His essay on arcade culture
That's what I was thinking of. Thanks for actually giving me a reason to believe you instead of just calling me mean names like most people would have.

>>10926989
>Anyway, I think the guy clearly knows his shit in several areas, but he lets his narcissism and personal bias get in the way of producing more quality material.
Eh, aside from the arcade article and parts of the RPG article, I've never really read any of his stuff and agreed, or even disagreed but still respected how he could arrive at such conclusions.

>>10927001
>It would really help his credibility.
You just don't appreciate his Unparalleled Genius because you are an Aspie (r).

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927028
>You just don't appreciate his Unparalleled Genius because you are an Aspie (r).

Lol, if anyone's an aspie, Icycalm is.

[Anonymous No.]

Anyone have access to this article he wrote on emulation, from one of his books?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927037
It was a joke. I was mocking him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927060
I know you were joking, I just think it's ironic that he actually does call other people aspies when he acts the way he does. Sorry for the confusion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927064
Ah.

I just read that pic. Holy shit. I...I'm not really sure what to say. Maybe a joke about how he's anything but icy calm?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926999
Being called dumb can hurt the feelings of somebody.

[Anonymous No.]

I think pretty much anything Icy wrote about games journalism was golden.

The only real point where I disagree with him is that I feel his reviews of indie games are overly harsh in order to get his point across. Usually these games deserve about one star more than he gave them.

I also think locking off his site and forcing his existing members to do editiorial work on his little private forum is pretty bullshit. If he thinks his philosophy is going to change the world, it'd be cool of him not to fucking bury it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926989
So, what's even remotely good about that article? It's a pile of truisms and idiocy. "cRPG aren't TruRPGs. Muh roleplay!" Does anyone sane care?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927201
>Muh
Your crossboard is showing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927207
I was already informed it has now trickled to /v/, but thanks nevertheless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927201

We have to clearly understand how these genre names evolved because otherwise we get dumb shits on /v/ going into how JAPAN DOES RPGS BETTER when we're really talking about two separate genres. When reviewing or otherwise talking about these games, it's important to recognize what "RPG" actually means so you don't go around acting like Final Fantasy X and Morrowind are the same genre of game, or worse, call Zelda an "RPG" because damn it guys he has a sword and pointy ears and I don't know what else to call it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927201
It's meant to inform you of why RPGs exist and what they are trying to accomplish, or at least should be trying to accomplish. Most games that bear the genre label don't involve any role-playing at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10926989
>but he lets his narcissism and personal bias get in the way
That is one of the worst qualities to have as a critic. I can't stand his writing because it's little more than endless rambling and insulting strawmen for irrelevant things. Yes, every now and then he says something on point, but I'm not going to shift through his inane tirades to hear something I've likely already heard before.

And my god is he pretentious. "You were expecting video games? Too bad! Have a bunch of quotes by Nietzsche instead, for no other reason than for me to masturbate about how intellectually superior I am!" That combined with his exceedingly contrarian views just makes me think he's an angsty high schooler--a "misunderstood genius".

Even his appropriations of Baudrillard, which could inspire countless articles about the role of games in the postmodern, hyperreal world, are instead foregone in order to insult people. The irony is that he's asserting his superiority like some objective truth through the writings of a man who has concluded that there is none.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914918

I think Icycalm's a faggot and Cavestory was an Ok game, but boy are you subhuman

>cave story is too hard

dajlaawldkhalwdkhdl

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927229
>JAPAN DOES RPGS BETTER when we're really talking about two separate genres

Sure they are, but all this hypothetical someone is saying is that he likes the Japanese genre of role-playing games (as defined by the video game world, which means "games where you improve your character with stats and items") more than the western one.

>>10927233
>should be trying to accomplish

No cRPG maker has any obligation to cater to fans of tabletop RPGs.

By now, the only thing they really have in common is a name. People need to give up clinging to the term's purity. It's been lost forever. Just let it go. It's like complaining that sea horses aren't really horses by this point. Actually no, it's worse than that, it's like saying sea horses should be more like horses since they're called horses.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927376
>the Japanese genre of role-playing games (as defined by the video game world, which means "games where you improve your character with stats and items")
>No cRPG maker has any obligation to cater to fans of tabletop RPGs.

Go back to /v/, retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927376

The issue is that when a game that actually has role-playing elements comes along, there's nothing meaningful to call it because Role-Playing Game now refers to pretty much anything with dragons in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927317

It's really more then that. I'd still like him if he managed to create meaningful points and insights and just had to express it in a particularly pretentious way I'd still read it. Well, if it wasn't behind a paywall. Lol.

The fact of the matter is his writing on games is either fucking vapid or fucking obvious. In the times he isn't just ripping at the gaming press to get his jolies (we get it, the gaming press sucks, I truly hope nobody actually takes it seriously. The only people who this is shocking and interesting to is edgy entry level retards), He just obsesses over dichotomy and structure as way to arbitrarily set himself up as an arbiter of taste.

Something he never actually does is ACTUALLY REVIEW GAMES. As in provide detailed, analytic critique on the various components that make up games, and explain what they did right and what it did wrong. In fact, I'm convinced he just lacks the ability to create creative, observant critique what so ever, in a way that pays attention to the actual nuances of the games he's reviewing.

Given the sheer amount of pretense in his writing, when it comes down to it, all his talking points are remarkably, mind blowingly shallow. Take the cave story and Braid review for example. It basically boils down to "Cave Story is really easy has worse platforming then metroid."

Well no fucking shit. Lets take your core talking point and strip out all the pseudo-philosophy and narcissistic pretense and you have a fucking obvious statement that should be evident to anyone who basically thinks about the games hes playing.

-continued-

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927510

-continued-
Lets look at a reviews from his where there is a lack of anything edgy to say. A game that is Icycalm approved.

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/ac/xmultiply/review.php

Hell we can even look at his review of Touhou. It isn't by him, but it follows the style of the others.

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/pc/shootthebullet/

He literally fails to produce a single sentence that can be remotely considered an "original thought" in the entire fucking review because the review is literally just a DESCRIPTION OF THE GAME HE IS PLAYING, and its historical context.

Nothing that can be considered insightful or meaningful. When you strip of his edge, the utter vapid mediocrity underneath is revealed, one that reads and contains the intellectual content of a 12th grade book report.

The lesson to be learned is that if you say obvious things with enough contempt for others, you'll delude a select few into think you're intelligent.

/endrant

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914901

I have a question for you.

Why.

I agree, it can't live up to a lot of similar games in the past. I still like it a lot, because it does a lot of things those games don't.

But why do you think so. What specific elements of cavestory's gameplay are worse than older games. Icycalm mentions difficulty, that's about it. Not even intrinsic difficulty, as in the difficulty of the mechanics themselves, just the tuning (too many health orbs). This is pretty fucking superficial, you can easily just play the game on a harder difficulty. There are reasons beyond that. Can you elaborate?

You have no idea how many people who like Icycalm cannot answer questions like this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927510
> He just obsesses over dichotomy and structure as way to arbitrarily set himself up as an arbiter of taste.
God he's autistic with the most irrelevant details. And yes, he doesn't know how to review games in the slightest. His arguments also make little sense, if any.

I can't believe people are giving him money to do this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927513
icycalm did not write the review for your second link.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927605
The poster is aware of that.

[Anonymous No.]

LA-MULANA is a better overall package if you guys haven't played it. It's much longer and difficult, but it's more on the bullshit side of difficult than fair. I'd almost say impossible without some hints or guides.

Music is also better.

Mulbruk has the most delicious sprite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927513
>http://insomnia.ac/reviews/ac/xmultiply/review.php

>X Multiply really is a fantastic trip, resounding proof that R-Type was not a one-off. Irem had somehow stumbled on a formula for making great horizontal shooters, and they became perfectly capable of applying it again and again, with great skill and precision. What's more, they kept improving and refining their technique with every game: It's telling that the opening stage of X Multiply is even more dramatic and fast-paced than that of R-Type. Similarities between the two games abound, since much of this is a re-imagining of R-Type (the huge mothership of the second stage, the moving platform challenges of the fourth stage). But there are also many new set pieces and boss battles which are as effective in surprising and delighting the player as anything else seen before.

>He literally fails to produce a single sentence that can be remotely considered an "original thought"

I'm not sure if it's the sleep deprivation getting to me, but I felt the above paragraph is pretty solid and is certainly leagues ahead of any other game reviewer.

I've heard some STG fans say Icycalm's review of Pink Sweets was pretty fucking stupid, but we have to realize he's not releasing this work in an atmosphere of excellent informed criticism. There's the informed hobbyists, of whom he, recap, and the shmups.com guys are good examples, and then there's the ocean of vapid, paid shills who probably couldn't review a game released before 2005 if they were held at gunpoint.

if something's wrong with his reviews, by all means, start the discourse! It's more important that we can voice our disagreement properly than that we agree with him silently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927609
Sorry I have dyslexia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927605

I know, I acknowledged that in the post lol. I just linked it because it was touhou, and thus relevant to /jp/. Regardless, it reads like the rest of the reviews on the site, you can read the rest if you want.

I'm sure /jp/ can understand very well how Icycalm and his ilk missed the entire point of touhou. All the reviews on his site miss the point entirely in similar regards.

[Anonymous No.]

awesome. I got stuck with dogbug and haven't played that after that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927611
I think you you play one, you should definitely play the other, both are on wii and steam. Both have a free version and a remade version, though la-mulana's remake is much better than cave story's.

The team behind la-mulana, nigoro, have also made a bunch of fun flash games.

http://nigoro.jp/en/

Future Development Company is really cute. Mecha parody rts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927611
>missed the entire point of touhou

All right. Let's hear it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927616
All right. Let's hear it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927610
>but I felt the above paragraph is pretty solid and is certainly leagues ahead of any other game reviewer.

Except that sounds exactly like any other game reviewer. When you strip away the edginess in his writing, there isn't much to it. With that level of analysis, change the words and the paragraph could be describing God of War 3 for all we know. And keep in mind that single paragraph is literally the only thing in the entire review that could actually be considered review.

My core point is that its all remarkably shallow. Look at his review for Y'sII. Once we get past literally paragraphs of descriptions and history devoid of analysis that make up the entire review save the last fucking paragraph (this style is repeated ad-nauseum for every single review I've scanned through), we get a single paragraph of actual review

>Ys I - II is a periplus full of intense and memorable action and exploration moments. The dungeons and labyrinths have the right difficulty and the bosses require significant doses of strategy in order to be defeated. This is what makes this game stand out from the majority. Despite such an elementary repertoire of actions and such a basic combat system, the game's mechanical conception is really brilliant

tl;dr? The difficulty was right, the bosses were fun, the gameplay was simple but complex. Why? Because I said so.

Well done Icycalm. Truly you are the paradigm of insight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10914636
NEET cave.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927648

I think you may be expecting a little too much here. Maybe there just isn't that much to say about these games? How in-depth can a review of X Multiply really be?

>It's Irem making another R-type, only this time the force has arms. It's a fitting follow-up and doesn't feel like a waste of time compared to their previous effort.

/review. Bam. what are you waiting for, a fucking thesis about sexual imagery in the Bydo alien designs? Is this what you mean by "the point" of Touhou, that we need to talk about the inane plot and numbskull secondary following in order to write a sufficient review?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927675
The problem I saw is that there's awfully little substance to be had in the entire review. What he says in all those paragraphs could be summed up in one. Even then it boils down to "I like it because I liked this other game and this one is pretty much like that one, but with novel differences". I don't expect deep analysis, but I do expect a critic to be clear and concise. The problem is that he's neither. He spends all his time summarizing the experience instead of breaking things down, giving each individual element a score and then an overall score.

And don't get me started on his review of "bad" games. Those are completely devoid of substance. He had the audacity to say that the opinion of a person who has not played the game is more accurate than one who has (in reference to Soulja Boy/Ebert and Braid). This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927691

>He had the audacity to say that the opinion of a person who has not played the game is more accurate than one who has

Granted, this can be true, if the person who has played it came away with an extremely inaccurate opinion.

Not to mention, Soulja Boy DID play the game. He's seen playing it in his video. Not to mention he seemed to like it. I think the most damning thing about Soulja Boy's review is JBlow's disdain for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927675

I'm pointing out the startling lack of any actual analysis on gameplay that makes x superior to y. What makes a game like Y's superior to a game like Cave Story? It's a mystery, because neither reviews center around the structures of the game itself. In all his reviews I've seen so far, a laughable amount of space is devoted to what should be the most important thing. Actual analysis and critique.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927699
Adding onto that, he's rediculously hypocritical. A lot of his reviews on older games will praise it for atmosphere, music and visuals. Yet somehow, these factors are completely ignored in a game like Cave Story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927699

I agree that Icy's reviews of indie games leave something to be desired. In some, like Spelunky or World of Goo, he makes a couple of decent observations, garnishes them with insults, and punches out for the day. In Cave Story he didn't even do that. In retrospect, his Cave Story review disappoints me with how many irritating design decisions it missed: the weak exploration elements, the two forced fetchquests that bring the pacing to a grinding halt, the path split that really makes no sense (why are you rewarded for NOT helping the doctor?)

No, he docks the star for aesthetics, which in Cave Story's case aren't even that bad. I'm with you on this: the Cave Story review was nothing to write home about. Honestly his hateboner for indie games just makes him very reactionary.

But I'm willing to back him up on most everything else he's written. The guy really is brilliant. It's just that the character traits that lead him to this brilliance also make him inaccessible, offensive, proud, and stubborn as all hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927720

The weak exploration element was my primary problem with cave story, the easiest to illustrate, and quite substantial. (I liked it overall though). The fact that Icy fails to mentions something you and I picked up right away, what the hell does that say about him as a reviewer? His hateboner for indiegames probably arises out of jealousy for that matter, no matter how much he tries to deny it.

So what's a piece you really like? I agree with a lot of his stuff, the problem is that the stuff I agree with are the kind of opinions you find floating around the /v/ masses. (Game Journalist sucks and Braid is pretentious? Never heard of that before...) He dresses them in a lot of pretense but they're actually quite common and a lot of people talk about them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927736

> It's just that the character traits that lead him to this brilliance also make him inaccessible, offensive, proud, and stubborn as all hell.

The character traits that make him inaccessible, offensive, proud and stubborn as hell is narcissism, not brilliance.

I don't inherently have a problem with that, but why would I put up with he lacks the brilliance in question? Brilliance is simply just something I've never seen from him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927698
>an extremely inaccurate opinion.
It is a subjective evaluation based on experience rather than general impression. What he's advocating is essentially "judging a book by its cover". This necessarily prioritizes the image over the substance, a fallacy that is anathema to criticism.

I don't know the details of Soulja Boy's review, and I don't know much about Braid's reviews. The game certainly has it's problems, but I enjoyed it. That's beside the point. The problem is establishing and maintaining a position via ignorance. Icycalm can justify this line of reasoning (asserting that image IS substance or that substance is meaningless), but as far as I've read he fails to do so. Instead he creates this "indie gamer" boogieman and relentlessly attacks it.

>>10927720
>The guy really is brilliant
He really isn't. When he isn't insulting straw men, he misappropriates philosophical concepts to support his opinions without actually analyzing what is being said. This is clear in his heavy reliance and alteration of quotes. His critique of "art games", though valid (because it's essentially borrowed from someone else) seems contradictory to an essay he posted written by Baudrillard about art as iterations of Nothingness. His rants against "indie gamers" (self-important, pretentious; exaggerate a false dichotomy) could easily be turned around to describe himself.

He should really drop the act. I don't think anyone is impressed with "deep philosophical knowledge" nowadays, especially when a lot of philosophers just spouted bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927720

was waiting for a reply but think I'm going to bed now /jp/anon. I enjoyed the discussion though but I gotta go work in like an hour.

I truly envy the neet lifestyles some of you guys have, and sometimes dream of being a neet hikki.

;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927774
>redicule

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927709
>rediculously
>rediculous

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927736

>"Message My Ass"
An argument against the absurd dichotomy of "artgames", "notgames", etc. This isn't as much a problem today, but a few years ago there was a prevailing opinion that, while video games could be art, they sure as hell can't do it when they're such fucking video games about it. Also surprisingly functions as a silly little primer of basic existentialist theory, though I'm not sure if he noticed.

>How Good Exactly Is Perfect?
A rejection of both ten-point rating systems and the inane push for "no rating system" (which, as Shitaku has proven time and again, will not make a bad review any less shitty). Also provides decent rationale for the five-point system, which I personally prefer.

>On "Emergent" Game Behavior and Other Miracles
One of the harder injections of philosophy into video game commentary, debunking the concept of "emergent gameplay possibilities".

>that scanned essay about scoring systems
Believe it or not, this is a pretty huge observation on where complexity really comes from, and why STGs haven't really gone anywhere in a while.

Really, most of the "Videogame Culture" section is very strong. It's a shame his forums are closed off, because it's hard to recommend individual articles when it's really the whole of his theory and philosophy that I'm enamored with. I stress again that he's obviously not perfect, and most of the flaws you're repulsed by are certainly there. But it's those flaws that make his theory possible. If he was a friendlier, more accessible person to you, he never would have had anything valuable to say in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

If Dota 2 got big in Japan, and became like monster hunter status, would you guys play?

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is the first I've heard of Icycalm.

He sounds like a hypocritical cunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927793
>One of the harder injections of philosophy into video game commentary, debunking the concept of "emergent gameplay possibilities".
This entire article is shit. The first six articles are a rant. Then he quotes Wikipedia, and within three sentences states " it is in fact glaringly obvious that no creation or destruction ever takes place in a videogame, since these are processes which by definition can only occur in the real world -- not in virtual ones." Which is far from obvious and actually probably just so much bullshit.

Then he goes off to say various wrong things, like "the sole criterion of this "emergent" fagotry is the designer's stupidity." Which also simply not true.

If it didn't sound like people actually liked this guy I would write him off as an ironic shitposter and call him a day. But apparently if you say dumb things angrily enough people will believe what you have to say.

I have read Conservapedia articles I found less idiotic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927793
>One of the harder injections of philosophy into video game commentary, debunking the concept of "emergent gameplay possibilities".
This entire article is shit. The first six articles are a rant. Then he quotes Wikipedia, and within three sentences states " it is in fact glaringly obvious that no creation or destruction ever takes place in a videogame, since these are processes which by definition can only occur in the real world -- not in virtual ones." Which is far from obvious and actually probably just so much bullshit. Then he goes off to say various other wrong things, like "the sole criterion of this "emergent" fagotry is the designer's stupidity." Which is also simply not true.

If it didn't sound like people actually liked this guy I would write him off as an ironic shitposter and call it a day. But apparently if you say dumb things angrily enough people will believe what you have to say. I have read Conservapedia articles I found less idiotic. I have to echo that other poster in this thread - I can't believe people pay him to do this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927810

>far from obvious
It's completely obvious. Everything in a video game can be considered to have already happened, as it's hard-coded. it's a closed possibility space. There is no creation or destruction, because the possibility space is fixed.

>the sole criterion for emergent fagotry is the designer's stupidity
Also true, because the only way for something "unexpected" to have turned up in the game is for the designer to have not expected it. If it happens he "accidentally" created something great, why wouldn't he at least pretend he intended to do it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927823
>It's completely obvious. Everything in a video game can be considered to have already happened, as it's hard-coded. it's a closed possibility space. There is no creation or destruction, because the possibility space is fixed.
The possibility space of short stories (twenty thousand words or less) is also fixed. To assert that there is no creativity involved in writing short stories would be completely fucking stupid.

>Also true, because the only way for something "unexpected" to have turned up in the game is for the designer to have not expected it.
No, it is trivially false. Whether designer A expected behavior B is dependent both on the characteristics of designer A and behavior B, not just one or the other.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927830

Not that there's no creativity, just that there's no emergence. If our model of reality could be considered complete, there would be no emergence in reality either. The only reason there is some is that there are still things we don't understand about reality. But since videogames are completely closed and much smaller than reality, the only possibility for emergence is a data corruption.

>Whether designer A expected behavior B is dependent both on the characteristics of designer A and behavior B, not just one or the other.
Not really following this. Can you explain it in a different way? Perhaps while calling me a "fagot"?

I'm kidding, but still.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927840
>Not that there's no creativity, just that there's no emergence.
That's a fucking pointless distinction. It is trivially true in the sense that computers are deterministic, but that's obviously not the point he's trying to make. It would be as if he wrote a fifty-page article about why people who claim that randomness in games are drooling retards because RNGs are pseudo-random. It's true, but nobody gives a shit, and why the fuck is anybody paying you to rant about it?

>Not really following this. Can you explain it in a different way? Perhaps while calling me a "fagot"?
Suppose we ask, "did person A expect event B"? Icycalm would say that whether or not person A expected event B is dependent entirely on person A's imagination. That is not true. It also depends on how likely event B was. He is wrong, his rant is pathetic, and you are a fagot.

That good enough for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927840
>Not that there's no creativity, just that there's no emergence.
That's a fucking pointless distinction. It is trivially true in the sense that computers are deterministic, but that's obviously not the point he's trying to make. It would be as if he wrote a fifty-page article about how people who refer to random elements in games are actually drooling retards because RNGs are pseudo-random. It's true, but nobody gives a shit, and why the fuck is anybody paying you to rant about it?

>Not really following this. Can you explain it in a different way? Perhaps while calling me a "fagot"?
Suppose we ask, "did person A expect event B"? Icycalm would say that whether or not person A expected event B is dependent entirely on person A's imagination. That is not true. It also depends on how likely event B was. He is wrong, his rant is pathetic, if all his articles are like this his fanbase must be truly retarded, and you are a fagot.

That good enough for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927840
Also, if I compose a poem, I have "created" a work, even though the possibility space in which that poem existed was fixed. Creation has occurred. This claim was not dependent on any characteristic of "emergent behavior."

This is just blatantly incorrect and I'm beginning to think that Icycalm gets away with spouting shit just because he sounds very confident when he's doing it.

[Anonymous No.]

hey dude. i'm sorry. i had something typed up, and my computer auto-restarted. i know it sounds convenient, but whatever. i guess you win! i need to sleep now. thanks. maybe we can do this again someday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927868
If you care enough to bring it up again tomorrow I'll probably respond.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927870

yeah, i'll try that, if the thread's still around. have a good one! i really did enjoy this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927793
>STGs haven't really gone anywhere in a while.
I guess I'm suffering from what ails the entire industry when I say, "Where is there for them to GO?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927823
>Everything in a video game can be considered to have already happened, as it's hard-coded. it's a closed possibility space. There is no creation or destruction, because the possibility space is fixed.
How does having a limited number of configurations mean that discovery of certain configurations isn't creative?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10927823
>Everything in a video game can be considered to have already happened, as it's hard-coded.

Taken literally, this sentence is patent nonsense.

>it's a closed possibility space.

That says literally nothing. It doesn't even imply it's finite.

Memory constraints of modern computers imply it's finite, but in that case, so is literally everything humanity does on their computers ever (because there's only so many things you can represent with finite amount of data).

Now, that does not stop people, educated people who know what the word actually means, from describing processes taking place in computer models as emergent. Because the term does not mean "something that cannot be modeled with simpler rules". It means "something which complexity cannot be comprehended just by looking at the simpler rules of its parts". Even if you could perfectly model human brain by the interactions of its atoms (or better yet, subatomic particles), it would still tell you nothing about what it thinks of.

Note that all that does not mean that "emergent gameplay" is not a stupid buzzword (though the idea of "give people lego blocks, watch them build things we didn't conceive of" seems solid to me). Just that neither you nor that guy who wrote that essay seem to have a valid critique of it, not to mention understanding of computers and/or the concept of emergence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10931222
>"something which complexity cannot be comprehended just by looking at the simpler rules of its parts". Even if you could perfectly model human brain by the interactions of its atoms (or better yet, subatomic particles), it would still tell you nothing about what it thinks of.
But that's wrong. If you model all the parts of a system, then you can model any possible state of that system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10931553
You still don't understand. You can "model" it, but you will miss the part that makes it complex. You can model atoms of an acre of forest and then enjoy the beautiful trees and anthills, but you will not understand how they got created, while your model of the moon surface hardly changed at all.

One of the canonical examples of emergent behavior: cellular automata. In their simplest form, they're a line of cells, each with two possible states and only reacting to its two neighbors. You can model them with a simple one-dimensional bit array and a function taking states of three adjacent bits and returning the new state of the one in the middle.

If you look at a bigger picture, a system like that is Turing-complete. An universal computer. But to use it as such, you need to know much more than one function that directs a behavior of a single cell. That's emergence.