[Comic Market] It's over: Japan joins to TPP [TPP]

[Anonymous No.]

●Canada says OK to join to TPP. Now all country says ok to japan join to TPP.
http://engawa.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/poverty/1366394243/

●The author of love hina talk about an "Seal of Tolerance".
http://engawa.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/poverty/1366280955/
__________________________________________________

As I know the fair use don't allows to sell fan made cartoon.
(Also there are no fair use on japan, on the law. there are only the silence of owners of copyright.)
And TPP shall allow to the police arrest those who sells fan-made comics without report of the owners of copyright. (Actually, if there are no report of the owner, police can't arrest him.)

Supposing this is how the copyright works actually, so, how the USA sells the fan-made porn comic of their marvel-dc characters in large scale? What they do?

pic not related

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771853
>Supposing this is how the copyright works actually, so, how the USA sells the fan-made porn comic of their marvel-dc characters in large scale? What they do?
They don't. Pornography (or hell, any well-made derivative works) are exceedingly rare and usually done for free.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771873
They are forbid to do it or don't do it because too much bureaucracy?

[Anonymous No.]

maybe now they'll finally stop their materialistic greed and start giving those things out for free.

and also, stop the whole printed material/burned cd and start releasing everything digitally, so it'll be more accessible to everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

Wanting to make money is a sin.

If the Japs want money so bad, they should make a Kickstartr like the civilized world does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771881
They aren't allowed to do it. The firms owning the IP would never allow it.

[Anonymous No.]

But OP the companies who own the copyright in Japan don't give a fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771923
and that's why everything related to that is for free.

as long as it's free, the companies aren't allowed to do anything. they can only go after you if you try making money off their stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

tl;dr

[Anonymous No.]

>>>/k/15889127

[Anonymous No.]

一・japan kills otaku buisness
二・economy sinks
三・g-d blesses canada
∞・otaku kill selves

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771953
>>10771923
So, Comike is finished afterall.

There are lots of animators what uses it to complement the few salary of animators and now those will be prohibited with TPP since now will rule sameways as USA.

>>10771939
With TPP, They don't need to give a fuck to arrest the fan-made comic seller. Just need anyone to report it, like USA

Actually, selling doujin is an shinkoku-zai.
(親告罪 【しんこくざい】 (n) type of crime which requires a formal complaint from the victim in order to prosecute)
I dunno how it is called it in english nor in portuguese.

[Anonymous No.]

Maybe this will root out all the fuckers doing porn doujinshi to buck in the cash and stupidty of otaku
not at all good though

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771965
it's current form maybe. whatever happens next depends from the people.

they could either let it die like a dog and forget about it if they're stupid, or they could make it be reborn into a new form, shedding the money grubbing image, and instead implementing voluntary donations.

you can't be arrested for donations, because as long as it's completely voluntary and not used as a transaction to obtain materials, it's not illegal.

sure, it'll be bad for the poor artists since nobody would want to donate money for shit quality, but that'll either force them to improve, or drop out and make space for good artists.

and since it'll be moving into digital format, the audience (and so, donations) will multiply.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771853
>We are beginning to speak in place of a variety of secondary creation to say this fear is not limited to Comiket, a feature of the Japanese culture.
>The proposed in order to protect the secondary creation the "tacit approval mark", Ken Akamatsu's cartoonist drew the topic ".

google translate is being retarded and making no sense.
Is akamatsu with or against it?

[Anonymous No.]

I predict the original "doujins" will be made based in projects on pixiv.
The sells will be very dependent of how communicative the guy is. I will really sucks.

http://www.pixiv.net/search.php?s_mode=s_tag_full&word=%E4%BA%A4%E6%B5%81%E4%BC%81%E7%94%BB

>>10771979
>Animators make doujins to complement the salary.
>Implying animators have enough time to make their own creations good enough to complement his few salary.
>Implying it isn't already forcing to improve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771965
But in the USA, the copyright holder is the one who sends the cease & desist letter or takes you to court.

The copyright holders in Japan don't seem to care at all. It shouldn't change anything.

[Anonymous No.]

Copyright law is already unreasonable and stupid but its standardization is going to be even worse. The current laws could hardly be more favorable if Disney wrote it themselves.

As for the rest of the TPP in general, I'm not a fan either, but that's not a topic for this board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771981
Looking for an solution.
He are looking for someway to not get arrested by creating doujins, like "Seal of this doujin is not oficial but we are tolerating this doujin being sold. Don't report plz."

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771999
Essentially the difference is that if the treaty passes as is, copyright holders will have to actively encourage secondary creations, or they will be illegal. They can't simply turn a blind eye anymore.

It's the difference between it being illegal for you to be loud at night if anyone complains, and it being illegal for you to be loud at night period.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771995
well then sucks for him. maybe he should find a second job, if animating has such a horrible salary that he can't live off of it.

i hear they hire at mcdonalds, and you probably make more money there too.

[Anonymous No.]

Love hina creator talking about Seal of tolerance
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/1303/28/news093.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772023
Putting a mark on your creations in the hopes that the cops won't come arrest you just seems weak. They should lobby to revise the intellectual property terms of the TPP so they're not as shitty as they are.

Then again, I guess the otaku lobby isn't very strong where the government is concerned, and in fact maybe they would be less than sympathetic, so...

[Anonymous No.]

>2ch.net
reliable source

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771979
You can't crowdfund an event on the scale of Comiket twice every year. Artists, as terrible as it sounds, have to take losses sometimes for there to be the mass diversity of items sold at Comiket. If you crowdfund everything, items would only be sold if the artist at least breaks even, which means the number of products sold would be enormously cut.
I really doubt you can even popularize crowdfunding even 500 items every 6 months, even if you went "digital".

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772164
funding what? if you go digital, you distribute stuff over the internet. there are no events. everything is done through computers.

there's no printing, no burning, no leasing, no renting needed. you just give people a zip file.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771953
No, even if you do it for free, it's still a violation of copyright.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772164
Most Comiket attendees are amateurs, they do it for fun. You don't pay them.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>10772183
In America, it's called Fair Use.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772187
It has to be parody, educational, or one of the other fair use qualifications. Most comics wouldn't be.

It has to actually be a parody, though, not just pretending that it is one when it's just using the characters to boost sales.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772179
You still need money to master tracks for CDs (so even if it's digital you probably need to record your tracks somewhere and master them so they don't sound like shit), and I doubt doujin artists draw natively in digital, so they're still drawing the same doujins first in physical then I suppose, what, scanning them into jpgs? Either way, artists still have to be paid as well.

The only costs saved in digital are packaging the albums and renting a spot at the venue.

And with crowdfunding, there's preference for those popular circles like Alstroemeria, IOSYS, EastNewSound, etc. How would a small name circle have a chance to compete for funds with such popular circles?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772179
japan cant use computers

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772205
i suppose everyone in the oc thread should start charging for viewing their drawings too then. they expend electricity or paper to make those things after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772220
I suppose you don't understand between OC that is meant for sale and OC that is not intended to be sold.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771982
>liking porn is stupid
>>/out/

[Anonymous No.]

Western pigs have to ruin everything good. Fuck them.

[Anonymous No.]

get out jidf stop trying to take my naked cartoon pictures

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772195
In the US all it has to be is derivative. Paradoy has nothing to do with it.

>>10771853
US law dictates copyright holder or IP owner can only report abuse or infringement and it has to be through a costly (often for the individual) legal process. C&D cannot be a email screaming at the infringing, it has to be a proper legal document. Example if a video that is a rip of some tv show is on youtube, anon cannot complain and have it taken down. The original owner of the rights or IP has to file to have it removed.

In the past it was easy enough to just send a polite email to third party for removals with easy proof but with the bureaucratic process you now have to have $$$$ to do anything.

US has nothing like the comic market in japan. You will at the most get cons of exploited artists sitting at a "art ally" or art ghetto" selling prints commissions and rarely a book or fanzine. All that is needed is a resale license and any fees the city or country will charge on top of the convention fees for table rental space and power.

Prosecution depends on the company or holder of the IP. Paramount is not likely to bang on your door for some star trek fanart. However some of the smaller uptight holders often will.

Pioneer Animation later renamed Genon in the US were royal asshats serving up C&D to anyone and everyone for any small infringement.
Acually thinking about it any of those licencors of anime were really tight ass about it. Just as bad as RIAA and MIAA Look where it got them, out of business. Good example of produce shit and shit on the consumer, you loose sales because of bad business.

[Anonymous No.]

I would be more concerned over dictators wanting control over what is or is not legal age for drawings. I can see it now, all images have to go through a ratings board with overpaid personnel to judge each image before it can be graded and stamped legal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771982
Most of them do it because they enjoy it. I can't even begin to understand why so many people think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772864
>all images have to go through a ratings board with overpaid personnel to judge each image before it can be graded and stamped legal.
Underpaid, but having no other options of income and proud of their job.

[Anonymous No.]

While I don't actually believe any law enforcement branch is going to take action against doujin content creators on their own initiative, assuming they would:

1) People with an express permission from the original creator are exempt from it, for obvious reasons.
2) To my best knowledge, ZUN's doujinshi guidelines constitute express permission.
3) Screw all the anime porn, Reitaisai thrice a year!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773148
Yeah, cause having a third of Comiket be Touhou wasn't enough. Gotta get that other two thirds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773158
It's a good time for liking Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

WARNING:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAFTA<wbr>

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773158
It's a fifteenth, not a third.

And please complain to the lawmakers, not to people who, by pure chance, might (theoretically) profit from their decisions.

[Anonymous No.]

>And TPP shall allow to the police arrest those who sells fan-made comics without report of the owners of copyright.

Pratically, this doesn't touch Touhou.
Comiket becomes a new Reitasai, as if a good part of Comiket wasn't covered by Touhou alrady.
I'm pretty fine with this.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't some owners allow the creation of derivative works anyway? Or at least they do so if they're given royalties. Unless it's a corporate giant, I don't see many of them taking the trouble of suing anyone infringing their copyright, wasting money and time in the process.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773228
Plus, it's an occasion to make more money for big companies:
>Doujin artist wants to make something
>Copyright
>Company: give me x% of your sales and you're free
Profit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10771853
>Day 98
>shop lvl 37
Wha, what have you been doing? How did you even manage to pay debt with that?

[Anonymous No.]

As it appears nobody has adequately explained the situation in this thread yet, allow me to summarize:

On March 15th, 2013, Japan announced they would join the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), most likely under pressure of the USA (they've been bothering them about it for a long time). One of the copyright provisions of the TPP makes 'willful copyright infringement on a commercial scale' a criminal offense (as opposed to a civil offense); HOWEVER, it explicitly also includes infringement not motivated by financial gain. The difference between civil and criminal offenses is that civil infringement requires the copyright holder to take action against it, whereas with criminal offenses that's not required (the state can prosecute just for the hell of it). Without the financial gain requirement, that includes free works.

The best way to explain the real effect of this is to point at MegaUpload, which was destroyed through legal means for facilitating copyright infringement. The same thing is pretty much guaranteed to happen at some point for Comiket, as it's basically a meeting of tons of people committing copyright infringement on a huge scale. Comiket will be destroyed, it won't become a Touhou-only event; it's not the individual circles that are at risk, but Comiket itself. Its only way to save itself would be to ban all copyright-infringing circles, which would cause unprecedented backlash. Depending on how cruel the state wants to be (the Japanese legal system is not exactly known for being fair) they could even go after stuff like Pixiv with these laws.

Plus, with how spineless Japanese people are, it's not unlikely that even a chance at prosecution will demotivate many creators. This agreement won't instantly kill the entire doujin scene, but it definitely will harm it greatly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773346
>'willful copyright infringement on a commercial scale'
>includes infringement not motivated by financial gain

I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773241
I'm afraid negotiations aren't as easy as that, especially not in Japan and especially not in the anime industry. You'd have to actually negotiate with the creator (and time is money when you're paid by the hour and have more useful things to spend your valuable time on) and the work will be considered 'officially condoned' (meaning they won't even consider pornographic works to protect their reputations). More importantly for anime, the rights to them are always a clusterfuck, with different parts held by (multiple) different entities. You'd have to negotiate with all of them, making it harder to reach an agreement and costing even more time (and money). (This is also part of the reasons why VN licensing is so difficult for localization companies, they operate on the same principles.)

[Anonymous No.]

Ugh, I fucking hate the west. It truly is cancerous.
I wish they'd just leave everybody else alone and die quietly in a corner.

[Anonymous No.]

If I were Japanese, I'd be writing the government right now and possibly engaging in political activism about this, but I doubt that they give a shit what anybody in the West thinks at all, so all I can do is watch.

How shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

Comiket is forced to die before I even get the chance to go... ;~;

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773346
But doujinshi creators don't NEED to infringe on copyright. They just don't. And by this point, the scene is so big it's not simply going away just because it's forced to drop some subject matters. Emphasis on forced. Where's the room for backslash against Comiked organizers when the problem is caused by events outside of their control?

The best way to explain the real effect of this is to point at NicoNicoDouga, which, at one point, started deleting videos containing clips from commercial anime. The result? Fully self-made videos, of Vocaloid and Touhou in particular, immediately took over and filled the void. And, literally, nothing of value was lost.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773434
If something is lost, its always of value to someone. And the thing that i hate the most is forbidding people to express themselves. I have a hand a paper and a pen, if i have the skill to do it, i can create any picture i want and show it to anyone i want. Its my work, it doesn't matter if its another character. Why would the original creator dislike doujinshis anyway? If there are no doujinshis of his work will this boost his sells? i doubt it, and people buy doujinshis to see there favorite characters in alternative story's, its not the same. And even if creators supported as alot of people already said, its too easy for a bunch of haters to destroy Comiket now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773434
>But doujinshi creators don't NEED to infringe on copyright.
Nobody needs to infringe on copyright. Nobody has to create doujin, period.

>The best way to explain the real effect of this is to point at NicoNicoDouga, which, at one point, started deleting videos containing clips from commercial anime.
There's a huge difference, namely in that what was being forbidden there was the direct and wholly unoriginal appropriation of other's work. What they are proposing to ban now is fully original art and story that only borrows characters from existing work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773486
Way to miss the point. Doujin creators don't need to infringe on copyright TO CREATE DOUJINSHI.

They can use this opportunity to free themselves from the dependency on commercial intellectual "property". (Or, for that matter, to lobby for formal permissions from the copyright holders that would fix the problem once and for all.) This can only benefit them in the long run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773512
I understood your point just fine. I also pointed out that the same argument could be used if they banned doujin entirely (I don't know how they would manage this, but suppose they did). Just because it's "unnecessary" doesn't mean that people aren't going to want to do it.

>They can use this opportunity to free themselves from the dependency on commercial intellectual "property".
Freed from something they wanted to do? You make it sound like people who produce secondary creations are somehow being oppressed. In actuality they create secondary creations from a franchise because that's what they wanted to do. I suppose if they banned video games in Japan we'd announce that the Japanese people had been "freed" from the tyranny of video gaming and are now free to read books or watch TV instead. Freedom!

>(Or, for that matter, to lobby for formal permissions from the copyright holders that would fix the problem once and for all.)
People lobby for things they don't get all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773522
sometimes they do get the things they lobby for.

this 'law' for example was created through lobbying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773512
>They can use this opportunity to free themselves from the dependency on commercial intellectual "property".
Are you American or something? This doesn't "free" anybody from anything, it only stops them from doing what they want, and without any good reason nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.]

Why would japan even want this in the first place. would people even vote for it in office if the people would get angry? doesn't the comkit bring people in form other countries and boost revenue?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773525
The United States of America has more "lobbying power" than a bunch of nerds when it comes to influencing the Japanese government.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773526
It's just a part of a part of a much bigger freer-trade deal between twelve countries of which Japan is only one, which would affect every industry. Some Japanese hoping it will revitalize their shitty economy. Right now the biggest fighting is about agriculture and automobiles. Nobody in the government seems to really care about the fate of Comiket.

[Anonymous No.]

So I'm kind of slow, can someone give me a tl;dr version of what this means and how Comiket is doomed?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773533
How about you read the thread? If you're not going to read what we have to say, don't expect us to read what you have to say.

[Anonymous No.]

Ok,I get it, Japan joining the TPP basicly opens the door for easy prosecution for all authorship violations, and even if culturally the Japanese market allows it for the sake of keeping a base of illustrators and avid fanboys moving towards the same market, the mere chance will turn them down. Thats easy to see.

But, open copyrights exist. you CAN set your own set of copyrights at each instance. for instance ZUN, he said basicly that "I do not care if you do doujin touhou stuff as long as it remains doujin" in other words, you can sell your doujins as long as you don't get companies involved. In the long run (and for the sake of big companies not to lose the amazing source of artists and writers and ... rabid fanboys), they need to keep the comiket.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773529
>The United States of America has more "lobbying power" than Japanese citizens when it comes to influencing the Japanese government.

Subarashii.

>>10773522
>Just because it's "unnecessary" doesn't mean that people aren't going to want to do it.

People want things they don't get all the time.

The point is to live with it and move on. For example, to move on to doing something that isn't forbidden. And if you reply to my "Comiket won't be destroyed just because you forbid some content on it" with "but it would be if you forbid all doujinshi", then I really don't think we're on the same page here.

[Anonymous No.]

Having rights over conceptual characters is fuck retarded in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773573
>People want things they don't get all the time. The point is to live with it and move on.
Seeing as how it hasn't actually ~happened~ yet, "moving on" is still pretty premature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773578
Having rights over concepts and ideas is retarded in the first place. Welcome to intellectual property.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773573
>Subarashii.
Is there something wrong with what I've said, besides for possibly an inappropriate use of the word "lobbying"? If I had said "influence," would that have been better?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773607
Clearly he means that you should just always watch and sit back passively regardless of what happens. Historically that has always made people happier, clearly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773607
Of course. We're all speaking hypotheticals for now.

>>10773609
Umm, I'm not arguing with what you said. I'm just finding the fact that it's true ultimately pretty ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773611
are you implying a bunch of american and european neet nerds can do more than a bunch of japanese neet nerds/hikkikomori otakus?

[Anonymous No.]

Haha, please.

[Anonymous No.]

What the heck am I suppose to do now when I go to Japan this winter? Comiket is going to be gone before I even get the chance to see it in person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773631
I don't think he's being sarcastic.
Only way to combat such things is through threats and violence. And that obviously isn't an option. Holding up signs, petitions and such do jack. Boycotts only matter if they're large enough, and they never are thanks to social standards.
So it's best not to worry about it. Neither western nor eastern nerds have any say in the matter, anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773471
>Why would the original creator dislike doujinshis anyway?
They don't. Most of them do not give two fucks and many embrace the culture of derivative works which has been so strong in Japan. That is why this is such a big deal, because now the government can prosecute anyone who does this without ever asking the copyright holder. It's silly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773553
>But, open copyrights exist.
Except if you aren't producing your own work (i.e., it's being published by another company, which is how the majority of things are published) you don't have this option. Comiket will lose all of the secondary works of commercially-produced series, which is a large chunk of what's there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773671
But why would they? They wouldn't, because no one gives a fuck about a few porn comics from a few poor, untalented hacks. This whole discussion is overblown in such a ridiculous way that it's hard to stay calm for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773674
>They wouldn't, because no one gives a fuck about a few porn comics from a few poor, untalented hacks
Over half a million people go to comiket alone, not to mention the plethora of other meets across the country. What part about that is a "few" comics?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773673
Yet all the Touhou porn will stay because it's doujinsoft. Plus all the other artists will turn to doujinsoft, so ignored series will become popular. I like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773680
I doubt those half a million people all draw their own comics. And on a global scale, it's still pretty small time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773690
I'm not sure if you're trolling or genuinely so retarded that you think millions of consumers is "small time". In either case, I don't (and you shouldn't) trust the government to just not exercise the ability to shut down these events.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773690
How the hell is it small time? The west is yet again trying to shove its putrid greasy cock into Japan's ear and westernise it.
This law, and the implications of Japan accepting it, are much worse than what you think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773690
Supposedly sales of doujin (I don't know what percent of this is secondary creation of commercial material, which is the only stuff being effected, mind you) account for near a billion dollars of year.

[Anonymous No.]

Do the big companies (Nintendo, Square, etc.) shut down fan projects in Japan like they do in the West? I've seen a lot of non-commercial projects get C&Ded, even things like fan translation patches, yet thousands of people sell derivative works at Comiket? Is it just seen like bootlegging and not worth their time to deal with or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10772000
Given their disproportionate influence in Washington, I'm almost positive that Disney actually did have a large role in writing it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773704
Most companies turn a blind eye, though some will shut it down. However, secondary works and reproduction of character traits is a core element of otaku media in Japan, and so most companies allow it tacitly. This is why this is a big deal, because they are now joining a western copyright agreement.

Honestly, the Western mentality of "shut down anything that has any relation to our product" makes no sense whatsoever. No one is going to treat an AMV as a replacement for the anime itself, yet these get taken down from Youtube all the time, for example. By the same token, no one is going to view Madoka lesbian pornography as a replacement for the series itself, but with this new law, potentially that coul dbe shut down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773704
Nintendo have been known to go after popular doujin artists and guys selling garage kits of their stuff, but most of the other big companies don't really give a shit unless a gaijin's involved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773712
It's supposed to encourage people to come up with their own characters and not just ride the popularity trend gravy train.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773730
Stop being stupid, it's not about that at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773730
>It's supposed to encourage people to come up with their own characters and not just ride the popularity trend gravy train.
Uh, no. The law is there so that it's easier to prosecute violators and so that copyright law is more similar to USA law, nothing more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773730
It's about cooperate businesses and government trying to control the flow of creativity to suit their interests.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773699
Which, to put things into perspective, is more than the entire US comics industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773712
>Honestly, the Western mentality of "shut down anything that has any relation to our product" makes no sense whatsoever. No one is going to treat an AMV as a replacement for the anime itself, yet these get taken down from Youtube all the time, for example.

Yeah, this is the big problem I have.

These screenshots are from Chrono Resurrection, which was a fan 3D remake of Chrono Trigger. They made all the content from scratch, but Square Enix didn't like it and sent them a C&D. I was IRC buddies with a few of the team members and they were pretty heartbroken.

It's stupid. Nobody is going to look at a project like this and treat it as a replacement for the original game, and ironically this was a full remake of the original game. A few clips from an anime or even just comics that use character designs aren't a big deal.
If I was one of the people who worked on a game and I saw Chrono Resurrection or Ocarina of Time 2D or whatever, I'd be humbled by the love fans are showing for something I worked on. I'm no expert in copyright law, but I think the people who actually *made* the content should have complete control over it, and this should be a legal requirement. If I create a series and my publisher issues takedown notices to fan works, I should be allowed to override it.

Oh well. Maybe we'll get more creators like ZUN who write up fair licenses allowing derivative works. Hopefully one day this will be the default for all works, but I doubt it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773730
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773742
By restricting their access to free publicity and advertising that comes with people making porn of your characters? If anything, this would hurt big corporations and help people without publishers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773359
I still don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773753
I get what you mean, but Chrono Resurrection really did look like garbage.
Nothing of value was lost when it got C&D'd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773761
(Most) big corporations have no idea at this point in time how to deal with (read: monetize effectively) the internet. They simply shut things down blindly.

[Anonymous No.]

All those doujin and fangames are free advertisment for the show/game/manga/ect they are based on. Shutting that scene down does nothing but piss off fans. You're not losing sales because fans make their fanwork.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773761
But if I see Tifa getting gangraped by niggers, it'll turn me off every buying a Final Fantasy game ever again!

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773753
>the people who actually *made* the content should have complete control over it, and this should be a legal requirement. If I create a series and my publisher issues takedown notices to fan works, I should be allowed to override it.
From their point of view, they want the law to work the same way it does for something like assault or murder, for example. You cannot just decide it was ok for you to be murdered. You can't sign away that right. The state will prosecute if a crime is committed, whether or not the victim consented.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773776
I see. I suppose that makes sense, but I think copyright at its foundation should apply exclusively to authors, so this can't happen. There should also be no loopholes or opportunities for bullying authors ("Sure, you can keep your copyrights, but let us do what we want with your works or we'll cut your royalties in half.")

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773768
No publicity is bad publicity is the first thing marketers learn. As long as people are talking about your work, that's good, even if they are talking about it because someone made a dirty comic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773772
I didn't buy "The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil" by Team Shanghai Alice because I played "The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil for Busy People" by Kasuga Soft.

YOU MAD, ZUN?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773772
Fanwork is not the same as free advertisement, because not all fanwork will encourage people to purchase the product that it was based on. Ideally, businesses want a monopoly on their products so that the only way to get satisfaction from them is to hand over huge wads of cash directly to THEM.

[Anonymous No.]

>Ken Akamatsu is mad that Negima was shit and tanked like no other
>he blames the fans and plots revenge via TPP

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773787
Can you imagine if there were an event where a large number of people (think anime convention size) people sold MLP pornography for (potential) profit? Think of the backlash in the news. Hasbro or whoever the fuck owns it would want that shut down immediately. This law makes it easy for them to do so, which is why it's already implemented in the US.

In Japan, on the other hand, people turn a blind eye to it, and they have for decades. Unfortunately, they've now been bullied by the US into adopting their copyright system. This (possibly) represents the first step towards a Western mentality on things (which is awful and is why people are complaining in this thread).

[Anonymous No.]

So from their point of view, what do C&Ds do?

Without C&D:
Corpsoft's Fighting Fantasy sales: $5,000,000
Ecchi-kun's doujinshi sales: $1,000

With C&D:
Corpsoft's Fighting Fantasy sales: $5,000,000
Ecchi-kun's doujinshi sales: $0

What's the difference? Corpsoft might actually make a little less money because of the lower publicity. They also need to pay staff to send out angry e-mails. Is it all a conspiracy by legal clerks who want to keep their jobs writing takedown notices?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773801
>Can you imagine if there were an event where a large number of people (think anime convention size) people sold MLP pornography for (potential) profit? Think of the backlash in the news.
Apples and oranges.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773810
It's a case of severe disconnect between what goes on in a boardroom vs what goes on in reality.

>>10773812
Exactly, the situation in America and Japan is completely different and they should not have the same copyright system. That is what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773793
The same thing can be said for ads. Just because you watch their billion dollar marketing campaign doesn't mean you'll go out and buy the product. Plus they show you all the good scenes in the ads.

Do you really think a corporation could make a loli sex comic and not be immediately boycotted? Having doujinshi producers do it for them allows them plausible deniability that they aren't just throwing in the token loli character to appeal to pedophiles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773801
>Can you imagine if there were an event where a large number of people (think anime convention size) people sold MLP pornography for (potential) profit?

Haven't heard of Comic-Con? Hell, not only do they sell fan comics (including imported doujinshi) but they actually sell bootlegs. Not sure about their stance on porn, though. I know Peter Payne got removed from some convention for selling lewd products to minors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773822
The legal stance on it is completely different, though. If for whatever reason they want to shut it down, they can do so, and the burden is on the person selling the comics to defend their right to sell it (be that through fair use or what have you). This is the opposite of the current situation in Japan, where the original producer is the one who has to pursue legal action. Given how afraid the average Japanese person is at being the target of a legal attack (which could ruin their entire lives if it is publicized), it will stifle the doujin scene completely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773776
If I recall correctly, wasn't the whole problem in America that if you don't take an active stance in stopping any sufficiently prolific infringement of your IP, then when you do need to take someone to court for copyright infringement, previous cases where you didn't take action could be used as precedence that you have no interest in protecting your IP? So rather than "any copyright infringement is a bad, regardless of what the owner has to say about it" being the intent of the law, it's simply the result of the court being unwilling to recognize the difference between a fanzine and a company producing bootlegs.

Is this law different from this?

[Anonymous No.]

Well, the basic intent of the law is to allow prosecution regardless of copyright holder intent. I'm not sure how that factors in to individual creators vs production companies, etc, but I know it does allow for criminal action against violators even when there is no request from the copyright holder. That alone is enough for concern.

If you feel like doing some heavy reading, http://stopthetrap.net/ has a link at the bottom ([3]) which outlines the agreement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773880
Was intended to point to >>10773847

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773822
>I know Peter Payne got removed from some convention for selling lewd products to minors.

Does anyone have the link to this? I was reading it a few months ago, now I can't find it again.

It was on a fairly plain early 2000s web page, I think Peter wrote about it in response to someone who attacked him on a mailing list or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773904
Scratch that, found it:
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/jlist.html

I could have sworn Peter mirrored this on one of his sites somewhere. Maybe he deleted it, because I can't find it again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773880
Well, this is 10 times worse than those other acts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773847
However, if people didn't have that provision, people would be sued for copyright violation whenever they sold their catchup as ketchup because ketchup was a brand name once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774035
>we can get away with calling vacuum cleaners "hoovers"? Is it something like "everyone does it so it's fine"?
This is "fair use". The government can't stop you from calling every tissue a kleenex, but it can stop tissues from advertising themselves AS a kleenex.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773936
What's the catch here, anyway? I know the term is "genericized trademark" which implies someone did file a trademark for their brand name, so how come we can get away with calling vacuum cleaners "hoovers"? Is it something like "everyone does it so it's fine"?

Though today I still see lots of examples of avoiding the more common brand name. "Southern fried chicken" (not a good example) and so on.

[Anonymous No.]

It'll be funny when Japan joins the TPP and America doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774055
We already joined it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774056
>We
You say something, Americlap?

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774056
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.]

why is night of the living dead public domain

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774102
More than 50 years old and copyright hasn't been renewed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773936
True enough. I suppose the real problem is that although not every copyright infringement is equal and it should be up to the owner where to put the line, actually giving an explanation of where the line is that the court will accept is probably very difficult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774102
why won't you stop avatarfagging

[Anonymous No.]

Whenever we have these threads I really want Aaeru to chime in.

Aaeru, if you're posting anonymously, stop. I'd like to discuss this with you and I'm too scared to email or sign up for a pseudonymous forum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774115
What are you talking about? Question girl transcends individuals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774115
you clearly don't know what avatar means.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774181
A graphical representation of someone in the Internet. When a poster uses the same character everytime he poses a question it becomes his avatar

[Anonymous No.]

>>10773847
Trademarks: Yes. Copyright: No.
And for trademarks, it's not a case of 'you didn't protect your trademark', but rather 'those guys also call their products X, so there's no reason why this can't be called that as well'. It's a result from your inaction, but the inaction isn't the reason the trademark becomes invalid - it's the prevalence of the name that makes your trademark invalid.

>>10773799
Akamatsu was among the first to call attention to the agreement and how much it would harm doujinshi.

>>10774055
US joined in February 2008.

>>10773656
I was being sarcastic. History has proven repeatedly that inaction by the people allow the ruling parties to grow stronger and that the people become more oppressed the more they let the ruling parties do what they want; the opposite has only occurred when the people rebelled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>10774277
>I was being sarcastic.

In that case let me assure you that my call for doujinshi creators to "free themselves from the dependency on commercial intellectual property" does not advocate inaction, quite the opposite.